[HN Gopher] Passing for Human: Philip K. Dick in Vancouver (2018)
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Passing for Human: Philip K. Dick in Vancouver (2018)
Author : cpp_frog
Score : 81 points
Date : 2023-03-04 13:16 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bctimeslip.skullcrackersuite.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (bctimeslip.skullcrackersuite.org)
| atombender wrote:
| It's a nicely written article, but I have to take issue with the
| attempt to attach a psychiatric diagnosis to PKD, more than 40
| years after his death. By all accounts he was increasingly
| mentally unstable -- the heavy drug and alcohol use did him no
| favours -- and certainly had episodes of deep clinical depression
| and what would probably qualify as narcissistic traits. But to
| armchair-diagnose him as a _psychopath_ seems wrong.
|
| The Vancouver period retold in this article is interesting and
| tragic because it marks the nadir of his 1970s drug addiction;
| after his suicide attempt, he was able to enter a recovery
| program (albeit an unfortunately cultish one with parallels to
| Scientology), weaning himself off heavy amphetamine use, moving
| out of the drug house and to Orange County, then starting to try
| write more "adult" novels (he wrote "A Scanner Darkly" during
| this time), which would lead to his significant international
| recognition towards the end of his life. But just as things got
| better, the VALIS incident happened, and he relapsed and started
| drinking whiskey every day, which contributed to his early death.
| joemazerino wrote:
| Good read. Interesting how there hasn't been a connection made
| between his stimulant abuse and clear manic symptoms -- high
| emotion, sex drive and narcisissm.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| Perhaps if this is the only article you ever read about him.
| But any biography on him includes notes on his personal drug
| abuse.
| patrickscoleman wrote:
| As a glimpse into the man's mind, here's a 1977 speech PKD gave
| on the nature of time.
|
| https://youtu.be/DQbYiXyRZjM
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| The Christian cross-pollination is fascinating/odd.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| He seemed to favor a Gnostic view of Christianity in
| particular. He talks a lot about it in VALIS and the
| Exegesis. There's quite a bit about the Demiurge, and how
| we're stuck in something called the "Black Iron Prison".
| madaxe_again wrote:
| The Empire Never Ended. We live upon a very detailed map
| that was crafted in the millennium following the Bronze Age
| collapse -- not in the "real" world, by any stretch.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Perhaps the Plasmate will reveal the true nature of
| reality to us eventually.
|
| I thought about getting "The Empire Never Ended" as a
| tattoo once. Also considered a Ubik tattoo. I can never
| actually commit myself enough to actually getting a
| tattoo though.
| x86x87 wrote:
| Lol. We can be tattoo brothers. I actually got a
| temporary tattoo to see how it looks and still thinking
| about if i should pull the trigger and get it done.
| throwanem wrote:
| There is much of interest in Christian and especially
| Catholic mysticism, I find - the latter especially; there are
| many mansions in the house of the Bishop of Rome, and some of
| them are strangely inhabited indeed.
|
| Thomas Merton is a good example. Back when Ratzinger still
| ran the CDF, you'd sometimes find Merton's books shelved in
| Catholic bookstores in shrinkwrap, bearing an orange warning
| label cautioning the devout reader against being led astray
| by the contents.
| ftxbro wrote:
| I wish PKD could be here to play with the GPT-N AIs.
| pavlov wrote:
| I wonder if he'd find them very interesting at this point when
| he predicted something similar half a century ago.
|
| Fundamentally these models look backward. They're a sum of what
| the Internet contained last year and can write you anything
| from that viewpoint. But an author like PKD was always looking
| forward. He might nod to GPT and go back to thinking about how
| much further things can go.
| x86x87 wrote:
| To be fair PKD predicted a lot of things that make our
| current dystopian present.
|
| Checkout Vulcan's Hammer for a PKD on AI story.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| > On the second day of the convention, having made public his
| desire to remain in Vancouver, Phil had been invited to stay with
| Michael Walsh, a journalist for the Vancouver Province, and his
| wife Susan, at their home in the city.
|
| And instantly my alarm bells were ringing. So I shouted back into
| the time portal: "Don't do it! He's going to make a play for your
| wife!"
|
| As is often cited, sometimes you don't want to meet your heroes.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Philip K. Dick's untimely death by stroke likely robbed the world
| of a least a few more great works. He seems to have come out of
| his earlier period of amphetamine addiction and tumultuous female
| relationships, and had written some interesting material like The
| Transmigration of Timoth Archer, which features a sympathetic
| female narrator. Apparently Ursula K LeGuin influenced him to
| some degree here:
|
| https://blog.loa.org/2010/12/what-philip-k-dick-learned-abou...
|
| Dick's earlier works do have a particularly bleak flavor, the
| story of A Scanner Darkly is certainly one of the first major
| dystopian sci-fi works, which contrasts with a lot of the more
| utopian sci-fi published in the 50s and 60s. Could have been
| influenced by Brave New World, some themes are similar.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| Just to clarify, _A Scanner Darkly_ was not one of his earlier
| works, it was one of his last. It was written in 1973 (double
| checked, publication date was 1977, though) which was 21 years
| after he was first published and 9 years before his death. He
| only wrote 5 more novels after it.
| hungryforcodes wrote:
| Only :)
| Jtsummers wrote:
| He had written over 40 novels from 1950 to 1970. He wrote 6
| in his last 12 years of life. It just seemed odd to me to
| describe _A Scanner Darkly_ as one of his earlier works
| when it very clearly was not.
| hungryforcodes wrote:
| Of course I agree with you. My point was that he "only"
| wrote 5 novels in the last 9 years of his life -- which I
| find incredible and amazing (in a positive way).
| gumby wrote:
| > Philip K. Dick's untimely death by stroke likely robbed the
| world of a least a few more great works.
|
| He had lymphatic cancer, and had fallen for the Laetrile scam
| (traveling to Mexico for "treatment") so the stroke did him a
| favor. As with the cancer he initially refused treatment.
| atombender wrote:
| Where did you read this? The Sutin biography reports that he
| died of a stroke, and his Wikipedia page says nothing about
| cancer. Are you confusing him with the Sherri Solvig
| character in VALIS?
| gumby wrote:
| I didn't read it, I remember it being talked about at the
| time by some colleagues who happened knew him well (he had
| an eclectic circle). One of them was quite distressed about
| the Laetrile thing.
|
| I was just a kid at the time and only met him once, in
| passing, so take my statement as you will.
| zabzonk wrote:
| i really don't see any similarities with brave new world, it's
| not particularly dystopian, and your dates are a bit off.
|
| there is a realy interesting film of scanner darkly, with a
| great cast:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scanner_Darkly_(film)
| miguelazo wrote:
| I think the statement "A Scanner Darkly is certainly one of the
| first major dystopian sci-fi works" needs some qualification.
| There were major dystopian sci-fi works dating at least back to
| the previous century. _The Island of Dr. Moreau_ by HG Wells
| comes to mind.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| PKD was such a fascinating and tragic person. I always recommend
| the book VALIS if you really want to get inside his mind. Truly
| brilliant man, but also full of pain, and unfortunately that pain
| often spilled out and hurt those around him.
|
| > If he could fake being a human so well, how did he know that
| everyone else wasn't doing the same?
|
| I have this problem with friendships and relationships. I can
| pretend to be friends with anyone, while secretly harboring
| strong dislike of that person. Then when I finally connect with
| somebody I do like, I have this constant fear that they're the
| ones pretending, while harboring resentment towards me. (I'm in
| therapy, and this is something I'm working on.)
| x86x87 wrote:
| But how do you explain what happened to Kevin's cat?
|
| There are also 2 PKD flavors: before and after Valis. Almost a
| completely different PKD.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| I'm working on pretty much the same thing with my therapist,
| who I unfortunately seem to enjoy confusing and evading with my
| freeform personality more than I do being therapised by them.
| Shit, it's my money.
|
| VALIS and the Exegesis are a good look at his end state, but
| some of his non-sf work also gives a pretty clear insight into
| the man - "Mary and the Giant" and "Confessions of a Crap
| Artist" spring to mind. Actually so do "The Broken Bubble" and
| "In Milton Lumkey Territory".
|
| They're all deeply uncomfortable and utterly palpable works -
| there's real pain and anguish and alienation graved into the
| platens, stories of closeness morphing into terror and
| estrangement as a natural result of intimacy.
|
| His whole thing was Baudrillardian, the real versus the
| consensus, perception versus reality - and his non-SF works lay
| it out bare, without any of the allegorical window dressing.
|
| I love the man, and feel real empathy for him, as many of the
| questions which plagued him are those which are also ever
| present in my mind.
|
| Should we ever have met, I am certain we would have hated each
| other, lovingly.
| throwanem wrote:
| "Mad, bad, and dangerous to know" - by all accounts including
| this one, as accurate a description of Dick as of Lord Byron.
|
| I've had lovers like that, and for all that they're immensely
| exciting and compelling personalities especially at first, it
| ends up being every bit as intense a relief to be done with
| them in the end, because of all the trouble they can't or won't
| help bringing in train. I think the only true way to know you
| have the respect of such a man is when you tell him he's out of
| your life for good, and he listens.
|
| Don't get me wrong - I do love a good Dick! The man wrote
| beautifully. But I'm just as glad not to have known him in
| person.
| sonofhans wrote:
| FWIW I know two people who did know him, and spent a lot of
| time with him -- Ursula LeGuin (RIP) and my old lit prof at
| PSU, Tony Wolk. They both reported him to be warm, humane,
| erratic, brilliant, fascinating and rewarding to be around.
| throwanem wrote:
| Sure, no doubt; I'd say the same of the man I had most in
| mind while writing my prior comment. It's just that that's
| not all there is to say.
| pa7ch wrote:
| Do you know where to find Ursula's accounts of this? I've
| always been interested in her writing and life.
| sitkack wrote:
| I have to say, she is a damn fine writer.
| finnh wrote:
| Good luck, in all sincerity. I think that feeling of actual
| connection is something recognized by both parties, and
| hopefully you can let that fear go.
| jason-phillips wrote:
| > Then when I finally connect with somebody I do like, I have
| this constant fear that they're the ones pretending, while
| harboring resentment towards me.
|
| We're all pretending; some do it blindly. It's easier to see
| once one is aware of that which underlies the automaton in all
| of us.
| mpol wrote:
| Seneca said real friendship has 2 attributes. You trust someone
| as much as you trust yourself. And you talk with the other
| person the same way you talk to yourself when you are alone.
|
| Now, you could easily know if that is true for yourself. I am
| not sure how easy it is to know it of your friend.
| gptgpp wrote:
| Hate to dumb down this interesting conversation, but... You
| guys talk to yourselves when you're alone?
|
| When I'm alone I kind of like... stop existing? It's made me
| come to the conclusion that our identity hugely depends on
| social constructs and our relationships with others.
|
| I have thoughts but they're definitely not conversational.
| It's like, "me hungry, want lasagna" or thinking about
| mathematical/programming concepts, or "I should read more
| about this" or "I'm sad/happy this happened."
|
| Somebody help me out here... please give me an example of how
| you talk to yourself when you are alone? What is that like?
| You have an actual dialogue with another entity that is also
| you? It's very hard for me to wrap my head around.
|
| edit: Nevermind found an answer... It's from "psychology
| today" which I know is not the best, but it seems to cite an
| actual study and be by an actual psychologist.
|
| https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/pristine-inner-
| exper...
|
| Seems the experience of inner monologues/dialogues has a huge
| amount of variation and isn't well understood. Neat!
|
| I guess we can include Seneca was an inner-monologue-er. So
| you guys think to yourselves but whenever you change your
| mind you experience it as some sort of conversation with
| yourself happening. Cool.
| ljf wrote:
| I have full on conversations when I'm alone, with myself,
| with other people, maybe with myself as a child or at some
| point I'm thinking about.
|
| I can hear the voices with different sounds - just like my
| friends voices - as I type this I loudly hear this in my
| own voice.
|
| I always assumed everyone was like this, but of friends
| I've spoken to about this I'd say it is 50/50.
|
| Sounds so quiet in your head! Must be peaceful. I imagine
| mine is linked to (or part of my) adhd (though my I don't
| have a formal diagnosis).
| dleslie wrote:
| It's not ADHD, many people do not have any inner
| monologue.
|
| Here's an interview with someone like that which goes
| into detail on how she experiences the world:
|
| https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/inner-
| monologue-...
| jrumbut wrote:
| That's so funny to hear! For me there is, if anything, more
| conversation when I'm alone.
| sitkack wrote:
| You don't talk to yourself? I have like at least 3-9 minds
| in my head at anyone time.
| shrimp_emoji wrote:
| > _You guys talk to yourselves when you 're alone?_
|
| All the time.
|
| > _When I 'm alone I kind of like... stop existing?_
|
| That sounds horrible and alien to me. I definitely exist,
| and talking to myself articulates and reifies my own
| thoughts. It's me helping myself think something through or
| overcome something, emotionally.
|
| If anything, there's "less of me" when I'm talking to
| someone else since then it's like I'm operating in a
| relationship-appropriate subset of my true self with them.
|
| > _Somebody help me out here... please give me an example
| of how you talk to yourself when you are alone? What is
| that like? You have an actual dialogue with another entity
| that is also you? It 's very hard for me to wrap my head
| around._
|
| I don't imagine a second self that I'm talking to and who's
| talking back. I'm one entity, and I can just be vocalizing
| thoughts. "Ok, so this code needs to do X..." Or, if I see
| an HN thread about how people can't get laid and a
| commenter is talking about low value women, "Haha, they ARE
| low value -- how many of them can even install Arch Linux?
| Granted, that's not because they're dumb; it's probably
| societal pressures stacked against their ever being exposed
| to things that would predispose them to install Arch.
| That's good. I think I'll write that and contribute
| productively to this awesome thread that I can obviously
| relate to which is why I'm alone right now and able to
| vocalize these thoughts without it being weird."
|
| Often, it's also motivational. "Ok, dude. I need to take
| out the trash. What can I do to get me to take out this
| trash? What's a good reward? Let's make a deal. With
| myself. Right now. Because I need a reward to carry out
| basic functions like taking out the god damn trash." And
| that helps me come to an accord with myself about the
| trash. The act of verbalizing it makes the thoughts way
| more powerful. A silent internal monologue would be way
| less rousing. I can just sit there, in silence, looking at
| the trash, thinking that, but my mind might just
| disinterestedly drift into distraction.
|
| I read once that Japanese subway workers physically gesture
| and speak out loud (to themselves) things they're about to
| do and that this minimizes their rate of mistakes. I think
| it works similarly to that.
| robinson7d wrote:
| In my personal experience, inner monologue can vary within
| an individual as well. Some days mine is similar to what
| you've described ("me hungry, want lasagna" - love it!) but
| other times it can be 2-4 voices all debating a topic from
| different viewpoints. They're typically similar to one
| another but different enough to know which is talking, sort
| of differences in tone/pitch.
|
| "Monologue" might not be the right word at that point
| though? I guess it is all me, so the dialogue is a
| monologue.
| MrLeap wrote:
| I have an internal monologue. After accidentally dropping a
| spoon full of ice-cream on my shirt, I ruminated on what it
| would take for me to look at that event as the catalyst of
| an abrupt change in the trajectory of my life.
|
| Then it's a flutter of little shards of partial thoughts
| one after the other, trying to solve the A* from shirt
| stain to self actualization. Then I went and changed my
| shirt.
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