[HN Gopher] How to earn customers for life [video]
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       How to earn customers for life [video]
        
       Author : O__________O
       Score  : 100 points
       Date   : 2023-03-03 01:04 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | jwsteigerwalt wrote:
       | I love seeing these guys at a slower pace focusing on customers.
       | A bit different than their normal content.
        
       | k__ wrote:
       | Good points.
       | 
       | I fondly remember people DM me on Twitter how they got a job
       | after reading my book.
       | 
       | Selling stuff is good, but people telling you that they got more
       | value than they paid for is awesome.
        
         | rozenmd wrote:
         | I'm one of them - thanks again!
        
           | k__ wrote:
           | You're welcome! :)
        
         | totetsu wrote:
         | React from Zero sounds like It could as well be a martial arts
         | book as a programming one.
        
         | O__________O wrote:
         | (Book being)
         | 
         | React from Zero: Learn React Using the JavaScript You Already
         | Know
         | 
         | - https://www.newline.co/react-from-zero/
         | 
         | - https://www.amazon.com/React-Zero-Learn-JavaScript-
         | Already/d...
         | 
         | * No affiliation; book is linked to from OP's profile.
        
           | k__ wrote:
           | "An okay book" - an Amazon customer
           | 
           | Always makes me chuckle.
        
             | O__________O wrote:
             | To be fair, I was puzzled by rapid positive comments on HN,
             | but lack of significant Amazon comments and/or easily
             | finding significant prior coverage of the book. That said,
             | book did receive prior coverage on HN, so sort of makes
             | since:
             | 
             | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17430059
        
               | k__ wrote:
               | I'm not a famous author and newline isn't a famous
               | publisher.
               | 
               | The book is quite old now and newer React features are
               | missing, so I guess the lack of reviews won't change in
               | the future.
        
         | nicbou wrote:
         | Reader mail is probably the favourite part of my job. I now go
         | out of my way to let people know how much I appreciate their
         | work. It feels so good to know that your work had an impact on
         | another person's life.
        
       | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
       | It's weird that these days, caring about your customers is
       | considered a superpower. It just shows the awful level of service
       | and support that passes as "customer care" these days.
       | 
       | I recently bought a hat from Boston Scally Company. It wasn't a
       | super cheap made-in-China $10 hat like you can easily find on
       | Amazon or eBay, I paid $50 for it. When I got the hat, it was
       | covered in threads. Some needed to be cut off. When I emailed the
       | company, their reply was "we're sorry you aren't happy with the
       | quality of the hat, you can just remove the threads and it won't
       | affect the integrity of the hat."
       | 
       | That's the wrong response. The correct response is "We're
       | embarrassed the hat shipped to you like that. Would you like us
       | to send you a replacement or do you want to send it back for a
       | refund?" I am certainly not going to buy anything from this
       | company again when they can't acknowledge their screw up.
       | 
       | Own your mistakes. In almost all cases it's the right move and
       | you earn the respect of the customer.
        
         | roflyear wrote:
         | Customer service costs money and effort. Easier to focus on
         | money generating things that are easier.
        
         | dazc wrote:
         | I bought a fold up bed from a company in the UK and one of the
         | wooden slats broke so I emailed them to find out where I could
         | buy a replacement. They replied with 'What was the model
         | number?' and 'What is your address?'
         | 
         | They sent me a free replacement and a spare in case it happens
         | again (which several years later it hasn't).
         | 
         | Such a simple gesture, with no fuss whatsoever, and here I am
         | praising them https://www.jaybe.com/ whenever I get the
         | opportunity.
         | 
         | I bought it from a third party retailer so they would have been
         | within their rights to give me the runaround instead.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | I have a similar memorable story from O'Brien water sports.
           | We had a set of kids' water skis where we'd lost one of the
           | thumbscrew bolts to keep them connected while young kids are
           | learning (100% our fault, 0% theirs).
           | 
           | I wrote the company to ask where I could buy a replacement.
           | The agent sent me a mail with a picture asking me to confirm
           | that was the part I was talking about, mailed a replacement
           | strap and two thumbscrews for free, and emailed a few days
           | later to check that it arrived in time for our lake vacation.
           | 
           | It made such an impression that O'Brien is my default/check-
           | them-first brand.
        
           | sdoering wrote:
           | Reminds me of the reaction of the company we bought our
           | greenhouse tunnel from.
           | 
           | Two years after buying it I wanted to install a windows in
           | the rounded roof section of the tunnel.
           | 
           | I made a mistake and cut the wrong section of the roof
           | destroying this section of the transparent plastic cover.
           | 
           | A new cover section would have cost me about 140 Euros if I
           | bought it here. I asked the company what they would charge me
           | for a new sheet (4 by 6 meters btw).
           | 
           | They just asked for my address and told me they would send
           | one free of charge. And they did.
           | 
           | I was positively blown away.
           | 
           | Since then I have recommended about 2.5 to 4k of revenue to
           | them from family and friends.
        
           | maccard wrote:
           | I bought a display bin/trash can (!) from a department store.
           | When I got home I realised that one of the rails was broken
           | on one of the drawers, and contacted the retailer. They took
           | my details and about 6 weeks later (I had totally
           | forgotten/given up at this point) I received a hand written
           | letter from the manufacturer apologising with the replacement
           | part. I was in absolute shock.
        
         | causality0 wrote:
         | To an MBA the ideal situation is one in which your customers
         | are exploited _just enough_ not to hate you so much they go
         | through the trouble of switching to someone else. Ideally they
         | have nobody else they can switch to so you can make them hate
         | you as much as possible without them showing up to your
         | building with a gun, aka the ISP and telephone provider model.
         | 
         | The sad part is that it works. My favorite companies are not
         | the ones I've given the most money, because my favorites have
         | provided tremendous value for my dollar. I might adore
         | Leatherman and use their products multiple times a day but the
         | fact is I spent $150 fifteen years ago and never had to again.
        
           | harha wrote:
           | At the same time everywhere I've worked they claim to focus
           | on the customer. Until the customer doesn't match the
           | standard process.
        
         | ZeroSolstice wrote:
         | "From the FAQ
         | 
         | WHERE ARE YOUR PRODUCTS MADE?
         | 
         | We design all products locally here in the US. Final assembly
         | is done in PRC to maintain high level of quality at an
         | affordable price."
         | 
         | PRC is the "People's Republic of China"
         | 
         | I think if you read between the lines their response is them
         | basically telling you this. The hat was made-in-China that you
         | ordered of a website from your house for 50 dollars and your
         | expecting it to be tailor made quality. I don't know if you
         | order many clothes online but this is how it is. I've ordered
         | jackets, dress shirts, socks, pants everything and they come
         | this way about a quarter to 50% of the time. If you have ever
         | worked at retail clothing stores this is what the employee's
         | sift through before it goes out on the floor.
         | 
         | Responses from companies and customers are all subjective. I've
         | had BHER send me replacement paint, does it mean I only buy
         | from them, no, so what difference does it make to them or me.
         | Its quite a bit easier to just embrace returning stuff and not
         | having high expectations with stuff that from your vantage
         | point is a blackbox.
        
           | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
           | For $50, I wasn't expecting tailor made bespoke hat or
           | anything like that. I was expecting them to take some modicum
           | of care shipping and packing it though.
           | 
           | Kangol hats are made in China and sell at similar price
           | point. They're nice hats for the price. By contrast, the
           | finish on this hat was less than I'd expect when buying a hat
           | from the $10 rack at the gas station.
           | 
           | I've ordered lots of garments online over the years and this
           | was by far the poorest presentation I've ever seen.
        
             | ZeroSolstice wrote:
             | Well my dude, fair enough. Maybe I misunderstood your first
             | comment as I thought maybe you didn't know the hats were
             | made in China but for the price point I hate to tell you
             | this but $50 is the new $20. I really don't expect quality
             | clothing for under $100 - $150.
             | 
             | My personal opinion, is that it would be worth *your time*
             | to go bespoke. There is no reason to not treat yourself to
             | quality clothing in your lifetime. Complaining takes no
             | real effort and you are worth putting the time into.
        
       | cleanchit wrote:
       | Sell heroine.
        
       | O__________O wrote:
       | While advice is reasonable for a new startup, to me there is a
       | notable gap between "how to earn customers" and "for life" --
       | they even acknowledge that the common pattern is to scale to
       | being a monopoly, then exploit the related leverage over
       | customers. Am I missing something, or is that their advice?
        
         | aflag wrote:
         | I think you summarised it very well "love your customers until
         | you get what you want"
        
       | zomglings wrote:
       | Liked the video but think that's only because it confirmed my
       | biases.
       | 
       | I have seen many companies succeed despite them clearly viewing
       | their users as pawns. In fact, most YC companies that try to sell
       | me things are blatantly transactional and while that has always
       | ruled me out as a customer many of them are doing just fine.
       | 
       | Would be better to have hard data rather than empathy porn.
        
       | middleman90 wrote:
       | _People like to talk to the founder of companies_
       | 
       | It's not working for me. I own a mobile app (B2C) with paying
       | users and this is the hardest part: Talking to users.
       | 
       | I'm literally offering money to my users to talk to them but
       | nobody wants to.
       | 
       | What am I doing wrong?
        
         | dzink wrote:
         | The pain point your problem is solving is not big enough. It's
         | a vitamin. If there was a problem with their painkiller or they
         | didn't have alternatives they would be hammering on your door.
         | (note, I have no idea what your product or company does)
        
           | middleman90 wrote:
           | I'm afraid this could be the reason... But it's quite odd
           | that people are willing to pay for the service I offer, but
           | not to talk to me
        
             | aflag wrote:
             | Why do you expect them to? Did they have a bad experience
             | for some reason?
             | 
             | I personally avoid talking to customer's service as much as
             | I can. I'm more likely to give up on a product or switch to
             | alternatives than say anything. There are a very few
             | exceptions to this. I suspect many other people are like
             | me.
        
             | travoltaj wrote:
             | How much money (hourly) are you offering and how much does
             | your product cost?
             | 
             | I'd be willing to accept $100/hr from someone I'm paying
             | $100/month to, but I wouldn't care for $25/hr from someone
             | I'm paying $25/year to.
        
       | wintermutestwin wrote:
       | In these discussions, I always like to suggest my favorite
       | company as a case study.
       | 
       | https://www.fractalaudio.com/
       | 
       | They make the highest end guitar audio processing HW and are
       | constantly providing free SW updates that greatly enhance the
       | unit. Their lack of a subscription model for SW flies in the face
       | of current HW/SW product monetization "wisdom." Compare to their
       | competition which maybe pushes out one or two firmware updates
       | over the life of the product that are mostly bug fix.
       | 
       | I have bought every main release of their flagship product and
       | will keep doing so even though it is way more than a bedroom
       | player needs. If you are into guitar and a hacker, I recommend
       | checking it out. It is a massive evolution beyond the old school
       | pedalboard and tube amp world (which of course have their old
       | school charms). It has an insane level of depth and most
       | parameters are controllable in real time.
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | Since this is advice for _startups_ , the title is slightly
       | inaccurate. It is not so much "for life" as it is for the
       | duration of the honeymoon period; i.e. customer acquisition
       | phase. When the VCs want their payout, it will inevitably change,
       | and customers will notice.
        
       | Someone1234 wrote:
       | Customer retention is an area companies fail at hardest and most
       | often. It makes me wonder what is being taught at business
       | schools.
       | 
       | There's nothing wrong with asking exiting customers if there
       | were/are problems that could be addressed. But there absolutely
       | is something wrong with badgering/harassing/tricking or wasting
       | the time of customers leaving, as it will cause reputational
       | damage and worse cause repeat custom to almost disappear.
       | 
       | It is just yet another example of how modern US business culture
       | values the Short over Long Term. In the short you see a slightly
       | lower Customer turnover, but in the long term you see a HUGE
       | reduction in returning customers (who remember the exit process
       | from last time).
       | 
       | To be clear: A short survey makes it feels like a company gives a
       | crap about why you're leaving, but it needs to be via the same
       | mechanism you used to sign up (e.g. online sign-up? Then online
       | exit), and it shouldn't feel like a way to block the exit. This
       | is particularly problematic if you're forced to call and the
       | person on the other end is on commission. They're more often than
       | not just there to wear you down and make you hate interacting
       | with the company, by its very nature if you do leave you will be
       | unlikely to return since that's the last thing you remember.
       | 
       | I've blacklisted multiple businesses for that practice and I
       | often check the cancellation process during sign-up to avoid it.
        
         | corobo wrote:
         | Urgh, Adobe wound me up so much with that block the exit
         | bullshit I'll go out of my way to tell anyone that needs it how
         | to get out of their cancellation fee haha. Must have cost them
         | a few grand by now in cancel fees never mind bypassed
         | retention. They probably don't care but the person who can now
         | bypass the timewasting and cancel out for free does.
         | 
         | Posting it on HN would probably get someone to fix it.
         | 
         | It's not a hack or anything illegal, lurking Adobe lawyer, put
         | your headed paper away.
        
           | hirako2000 wrote:
           | They don't care, it won't matter, and sadly just works better
           | than not employing the practice. It's particularly sad given
           | for certain co such as Adobe it's kind of hard to not go with
           | it. E.g their file format is part of existing bits in the
           | pipeline. They know, and it's been their strategy for decades
           | now.
        
         | ncallaway wrote:
         | I unsubscribed from the NYT a while ago due to the cost. I was
         | planning on resubscribing in the not-too-distance future. But
         | despite letting me subscribe online, they didn't let me cancel
         | online.
         | 
         | So, when I resubscribed to a few other papers again, the NYT
         | wasn't on that list. It'll be a decade before I think about
         | giving them another cent.
         | 
         | I thought I heard that they ended this practice now,
         | but...well, I don't trust them anymore. Once trust is burned,
         | it takes a _long_ time to recover.
        
       | TexanFeller wrote:
       | I bought a large Jackery battery generator a year or two ago and
       | was having trouble finding anywhere to buy a second charger for
       | it including their website. I emailed customer service asking
       | where to buy it and they asked for my address to send it to me
       | for free. I'll be recommending their products now.
        
       | nickpeterson wrote:
       | My wife recently had some poor customer service ordering some
       | earrings from mejuri.com. She selected rush shipping to try and
       | get it in time for a birthday. They took two days to process the
       | order and shipped it dhl which apparently doesn't work on
       | saturdays. A tiny box with rush shipping was going to take 6
       | days. The company has no apparent phone number and the chat
       | support basically inundated her with copy pasted information from
       | their faq when she asked for a refund on the rush shipping. Talk
       | about disappointing your customers.
        
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