[HN Gopher] Mapping hidden corridors and chambers in the Great P...
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       Mapping hidden corridors and chambers in the Great Pyramid of Giza
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2023-03-02 23:43 UTC (23 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | jmclnx wrote:
       | It is too bad Egypt does not try and restore the external layer
       | the Pyramids had. From ancient text it said the Pyramids would
       | glisten bright from the sun.
       | 
       | IIRC, they had a smooth limestone covering that was bright white.
        
         | jfengel wrote:
         | I think "bright" is relative. There are plenty of limestone
         | structures in the world, including some modern-built pyramids
         | (of much less grand scale). Limestone is soft and porous and
         | will never glisten the way marble does.
         | 
         | It would have been very impressive, to be sure. But I don't
         | think it's going to match the experience you have in mind.
         | 
         | Since any such modern facing would completely hide all of the
         | authentic material, you might as well just build a completely
         | modern structure elsewhere. With modern building techniques it
         | wouldn't take all that long.
        
           | methodin wrote:
           | That would actually be a pretty amazing thing to recreate the
           | pyramids relatively close by as modern structures and
           | replicate it so people could experience everything in it.
        
             | saalweachter wrote:
             | I've wondered if you could build a stone pyramid -- using
             | modern machinery -- financed as a time capsule.
             | 
             | For $X dollars, you can pay to have a cubic foot of stuff
             | interred in the pyramid, for future historians to find. If
             | a pyramid-sized pyramid can hold Y such lots, can you sell
             | enough to pay for the construction?
             | 
             | It doesn't have to be anywhere specific, just pick a spot
             | that's relatively dry and has appropriate stone nearby. Run
             | it as a tourist trap afterwards to pay for whatever ongoing
             | costs are needed to keep people from disassembling it for
             | raw materials.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | There's not really anything inside a pyramid. It's just a
             | pile of rocks. There are a few chambers, but you don't need
             | the entire pile of rocks for people to experience those.
             | 
             | If you want to stand inside a big pyramid shape made of
             | modern materials, you can go to Las Vegas. From inside it
             | looks like any other building, though I suppose the rooms
             | with the slanting windows are faintly neat.
        
               | justinator wrote:
               | _> It's just a pile of rocks_
               | 
               | So the outer sides of the pyramid are these very precise
               | steps with amazing accurancy, and it's just filled in
               | (where there aren't chambers) with... piles of rocks?
        
         | smallnix wrote:
         | They are so old, even the damages are of historic value.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | When I visited the pyramids, I was so blown away that they were
         | stair-step - and decaying, since I have always seen depictions
         | and imagined them to be smooth-sided. I had to learn that the
         | outer layer was removed (pillaged?)
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | They don't know what tools were used... or really much else.
         | The pyramids and most ancient architecture is what you see is
         | what you get. How or why can't be answered. Much less what the
         | result looked like.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Because it's whole lot of effort to make the entire structure
         | appear less authentic? The limestone being removed and used for
         | other buildings around it is part of its history too. Makes
         | most sense to just preserve it as-is as much as possible and
         | stop it from deteriorating further.
        
         | zelphirkalt wrote:
         | Conservator restoring things to their original state take great
         | pains and sometimes use the original methods. I imagine that to
         | be infeasible for the pyramids. Doing it differently would be
         | changing the original thing. On the other hand it could serve
         | to protect what still remains of the pyramids.
        
         | cbzbc wrote:
         | And a gold capstone.
        
       | xg15 wrote:
       | I read the original article about the muon imaging project and
       | remember being surprised that there is actually a scientific
       | endeavour that involves exotic elementary particles, advanced
       | physics, cosmic rays from deep space and ancient Egyptian
       | pyramids and which was not thought up by the Stargate SG1
       | writers.
        
         | jhalderm wrote:
         | The muon imaging idea originates with Luis Alvarez, who also
         | flew on the mission that dropped the first atomic bomb,
         | discovered what killed the dinosaurs, and won a Nobel Prize for
         | contributions to particle physics. Truly the kind of mind that
         | inspires science fiction.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Walter_Alvarez
        
       | tedd4u wrote:
       | This other article [1] currently on the front page actually has a
       | large photo of the inside of the chamber. The Ars Technica
       | article linked here sadly does not.
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35007448
        
         | ericvsmith wrote:
         | I don't think that picture is about the new chamber they're
         | referencing in the article. Note the caption "showing _an_
         | empty corridor " (emphasis mine).
         | 
         | I was hoping to see a picture, too.
        
           | mcphage wrote:
           | From seeing links elsewhere on the internet, I believe the
           | picture in this article: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-
           | middle-east-64825526 _is_ the correct one.
        
       | simple10 wrote:
       | The UnchartedX YouTube channel [1] has excellent in-depth
       | analysis of possible tools and construction methods used for
       | ancient megalithic structures, including the Great Pyramid. He
       | hasn't released a video yet of the new discovery, but he's talked
       | about the possibility of this chamber before it was officially
       | confirmed.
       | 
       | I particularly like his video [2] on the scoop marks around a
       | partially quarried obelisk, and how the evidence might point to
       | the use of yet to be discovered machinery. Not crazy stuff like
       | alien tech or electrical power tools, but advanced engineering.
       | Perhaps some sort of circular saw or device on a crane.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/@UnchartedX
       | 
       | [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tnrkahCLHw
        
         | peterfirefly wrote:
         | UnchartedX is a kook channel. History for GRANITE and
         | Scientists Against Myths are not.
        
       | bell-cot wrote:
       | Note: The clicky title says "secret hidden corridor". But the
       | article uses phrases like "a void space shaped like a corridor".
       | 
       | Why? Unused, dead-end void spaces were a regular feature of large
       | pyramids. If you pile rocks into a huge pyramid, with only
       | ancient Egyptian engineering tech, then the weight of the higher
       | layers concentrates in random places lower down - cracking some
       | of the lower layers. Any cracking or ceiling collapses in parts
       | of the pyramid that the pharaoh cared about could be unhealthy
       | for the lead engineers. Well-placed void spaces helped re-
       | distribute the stress, minimizing that risk.
        
         | schuyler2d wrote:
         | This is nitpicking but it's good engineering practice even
         | today.
         | 
         | Similarly, we don't have evidence that suggests lead engineers
         | would be killed or anything if there were engineering problems.
         | 
         | My main point is just to deexoticize the work and work
         | environment. They were engineers -- clearly good ones!
        
           | q7xvh97o2pDhNrh wrote:
           | > Similarly, we don't have evidence that suggests lead
           | engineers would be killed or anything if there were
           | engineering problems.
           | 
           | Sure, but they might not get promoted to Senior Lead Engineer
           | in their next Pharaoh Performance Review, which is almost as
           | bad.
        
             | pvaldes wrote:
             | Or be fired, but with real fire.
        
         | hadlock wrote:
         | The Pantheon in rome has a giant 150' diameter, unsupported
         | concrete dome. It uses some density "hacks" as well. Turns out
         | the top third of the dome uses concrete that's about 50% pumice
         | (lightweight volcanic rock) by volume. Like ancient foam. Both
         | structures are ancient at this point but the Panthon is
         | particularly impressive in that the unsupported dome survives
         | in a highly seismic area.
        
       | smoyer wrote:
       | Where are the ancient alien proponents when you need them (they
       | can tell you what and where these corridors without expensive
       | equipment).
        
       | enricotrudu wrote:
       | Synthetic aperture radar doppler tomograpy of Giza pyramid paper
       | (Prof. Malanga/ Prof. Biondi):
       | https://arxiv.org/pdf/2208.00811.pdf
        
       | uno6180338 wrote:
       | Paper: Synthetic aperture radar doppler tomograpy of Giza pyramid
       | by prof.Malanga & prof.Biondi at
       | https://www.mdpi.com/2072-4292/14/20/5231
        
       | vanattab wrote:
       | I have been hearing about this chamber for years? Do we not have
       | the technology to drill a small hole to it and stick some kind of
       | endoscope like robot in?
        
         | snypher wrote:
         | The article states it has been imaged by endoscope/borescope.
         | Here's another source;
         | 
         | https://www.newscientist.com/article/2362300-hidden-corridor...
        
         | bhaak wrote:
         | I'm not sure it's the same chamber. It's certainly not any of
         | the spaces that the Upuaut bots explored.
         | 
         | You also seriously underestimate the political landscape about
         | the archaeology of the Pyramids.
         | 
         | As the article states, this space was discovered in 2016 and it
         | took them until now to drill a small hole in it and explore it.
         | Certainly not because of not having the technology back then.
        
           | detourdog wrote:
           | It's a smaller chamber under the chevrons in the sort of
           | gaping hole one can see about a quarter way up. Not a larger
           | void that is also imaged by muons.
        
       | partiallypro wrote:
       | I was coincidentally thinking about this last night, that I
       | remember growing up there would be live television events based
       | on Egyptian discoveries, etc on network television. They don't
       | even really do that on History or Discovery now. I still remember
       | some of those segments, one even sent a camera down a shaft on
       | live TV and they ran into a wooden block or something similar and
       | couldn't go any further. Those were the days.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | > An engineer named E.P. George used them to make measurements of
       | an Australian tunnel in the 1950s.
       | 
       | Seems true, but no confirmation if worked at all -
       | 
       | https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/category/newspapers?keyword=...
        
       | jhallenworld wrote:
       | A very nice youtube channel is History for Granite:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/@HistoryforGRANITE/videos
       | 
       | I've learned from this channel that there is 4500 year old wood
       | is still in place in some of the pyramids. There has been carbon
       | dating on it, and ash in the mortar.
        
         | hummus_bae wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | robmerki wrote:
         | Thrilled to see some love for History for Granite. That and
         | Ancient Architects are fantastic if you're a specific type of
         | history nerd.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-03 23:02 UTC)