[HN Gopher] Qualcomm CEO says he's expecting Apple to use its ow...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Qualcomm CEO says he's expecting Apple to use its own modems in
       iPhones in 2024
        
       Author : retskrad
       Score  : 110 points
       Date   : 2023-03-01 14:47 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnbc.com)
        
       | malchow wrote:
       | This lower power modem and the Enovix Si battery and we're
       | looking at 5G for real, finally.
        
       | runlevel1 wrote:
       | What makes it so difficult to produce a cellular modem? Complex
       | specification? Lots of edge cases?
        
         | xxpor wrote:
         | Regardless of the business/legal reasons, they're also just
         | incredibly complex from a technical perspective. The power
         | requirements, the RF side is black magic, the protocol side
         | isn't easy, etc.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | I can't find the source.
         | 
         | But one reason was that if you take the specification and
         | implement it from scratch you end up with a significantly worse
         | performing solution than simply buying it from Qualcomm.
         | 
         | It could also explain why Apple is putting this first in their
         | iPhone SE4 as their users will already expect not to own the
         | fastest phone.
        
         | j16sdiz wrote:
         | and battery life.
         | 
         | Intel did it with some firmware / microcode, and it took too
         | much energy.
        
         | mzs wrote:
         | patents: https://www.qualcomm.com/content/dam/qcomm-martech/dm-
         | assets...
        
           | mdasen wrote:
           | Does that make it difficult to make a cellular modem or just
           | expensive? Those are two different things.
           | 
           | I'm assuming that they were asking why it's so difficult that
           | so few vendors do it and why it's taking Apple so long.
           | 
           | For example, Intel had trouble competing with Qualcomm's
           | modems - they were always a generation or two behind. Apple
           | bought Intel's modem business around 3.5 years ago and it
           | looks like it'll take 5 years for them to come out with their
           | first Apple-modem phone - and Apple wasn't starting from
           | scratch. Apple was starting with a billion dollar purchase of
           | Intel's modem business including all that IP, 2,200 Intel
           | modem employees, 17,000 wireless patents, etc.
           | 
           | It's gotten to the point that Qualcomm is basically the only
           | game in town for high-end smartphones. Even Samsung who has
           | their own modems went with Qualcomm worldwide for the Galaxy
           | S23 - which they hadn't done for previous models.
           | 
           | If it were just a matter of paying money, Apple and Intel
           | would have created a competitive chip quickly.
        
             | babypuncher wrote:
             | Apple and Qualcomm have been fighting over patents for a
             | decade. I presume Apple is designing their own chip that
             | does not require any licensed tech from Qualcomm, which is
             | what makes it harder.
        
       | takinola wrote:
       | I've a sneaking suspicion that Apple's vertical consolidation of
       | the iPhone supply chain makes the company much more fragile.
       | There are clearly lots of economies of scale by building custom
       | silicon that's optimized for their use cases. However, if their
       | sales drop, they become saddled with factories, product lines and
       | lease commitments that further drag on costs and make it hard to
       | react and change direction.
        
         | panick21_ wrote:
         | I don't think so, they can still have suppliers that carry much
         | of the risk if they want to. They just make sure they control
         | the IP.
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | I don't think that's such a problem for apple, since there is
         | such a market for 3 year old products from them. iPhone 8 was
         | effectively a product being sold for 5 straight years from
         | apple, as the 8 and then as the second generation SE. For their
         | computers, they also sell them for a few years past when they
         | were cutting edge too, since there's always a market for a
         | macbook that's a few hundred bucks cheaper and most consumers
         | don't know what the difference between M1 or M2 might be
         | anyhow.
        
         | gonzo41 wrote:
         | I tend to agree.
         | 
         | One way to ease that pain is for apple to make itself a
         | supplier to others rather than the supplier and consumer of
         | it's own parts. A top of the line iPhone costs ~$500 to 1000
         | bucks! why not try and go after the middle of the market by
         | licencing the chipsets and other tech so that they can then
         | supply mid teir companies that can compete in the android space
         | with the lure of apple chipsets and hardware.
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | I'm curious what kind of cost savings this is going to provide
       | Apple with per-device.
       | 
       | Also are there other benefits like integrating onto the main chip
       | or something? Or other business benefits?
        
         | mcphage wrote:
         | > I'm curious what kind of cost savings this is going to
         | provide Apple with per-device
         | 
         | My understanding is that Qualcomm charges a percentage of the
         | total device cost, rather than a fixed price, so as phones get
         | more expensive, that cost increases.
        
         | brucethemoose2 wrote:
         | > Also are there other benefits like integrating onto the main
         | chip or something?
         | 
         | Yes, but the iPhone chips may be tiled by the time this
         | happens, so it might not be "on chip." This is probably for the
         | best, as the RF analog stuff a modem chip has to deal with
         | requires certain compromises.
         | 
         | > Or other business benefits?
         | 
         | Just getting away from Qualcomm is a big one, lol
         | 
         | Apple isnt the only company they started a feud with. _Intel_
         | accused them of being anticompetitive in a remarkable rant back
         | in 2018: https://newsroom.intel.com/news/another-attempt-
         | stifle-compe...
        
         | notafraudster wrote:
         | Almost ten years ago now, Qualcomm and Apple began suing each
         | other. Apple's position was Qualcomm was playing hardball with
         | patents that ought have a FRAND license. Qualcomm's position
         | was Apple was being mean, and then also to sue various
         | downstream part contractors for not paying royalties they
         | claimed were owed to them but that Apple was contesting. In
         | general Apple won more of the litigation than they lost (but
         | not all), and the litigation eventually ended in a large
         | settlement. But Apple said at the time of the settlement, that
         | it was untenable to have to source all of their LTE stuff from
         | Qualcomm and they planned to secure their supply chain in the
         | coming years. This is that statement now coming to fruition.
         | 
         | So in toto, my impression is that this isn't fundamentally
         | about seeking any particular cost savings or technical
         | difference, so much as it Apple trying to disentangle
         | themselves from external suppliers who they view as hostile or
         | undependable.
        
           | tooltalk wrote:
           | First, Apple is known to squeeze every penny from their
           | suppliers to improve their bottom line.
           | 
           | Second, likewise, Apple sued every single wireless patent
           | holders (eg, Nokia, Ericsson, Qualcomm, etc) to negotiate
           | better licensing terms -- but, to be fair, it's not uncommon
           | for other smartphone OEMs to do so in court.
           | 
           | Third, Apple's legal argument was always that Qualcomm's per-
           | device (ie, final product) royalty basis licensing offer was
           | not FRAND. Apple believes that the royalty should be based on
           | the cost of Qualcomm's chips instead. But, of course, there
           | is no legal basis or industry practice to support Apple's
           | unfounded claim and, consequently, LOST EVERY lawsuit based
           | on this claim for past 10+ years.
           | 
           | Fourth, "... then also to sue various downstream part
           | contractors ..." No, you don't sue everyone in supply-chain.
           | The wireless patent holders collect their royalty only once
           | and at the top of the supply-chain, ie, smartphone OEMs, to
           | maximize their profit. and that's been the industry practice
           | for much of the past 25+ years (possibly even longer).
           | 
           | Fifth, "... it was untenable to have to source all of their
           | LTE stuff from Qualcomm ..." Umm.. Stop, stop, stop!
           | 
           | So in conclusion, it's all about saving Apple's margin,
           | that's all. I don't blame any company for trying to minize
           | their cost, but the recent event with Qualcomm, ie, FTC's
           | attack on Qualcomm with Apple orchestrating behind the
           | curtain, was highly unethical and abuse of their political
           | power.
           | 
           | PS. insulting languages removed
        
             | doix wrote:
             | > First, Apple is known to squeeze every penny from their
             | suppliers to improve their bottom line.
             | 
             | This is just unequivocally false. I used to work for a
             | semiconductor company that was a supplier for Apple. Apple
             | would pay a premium compared to other companies.
             | 
             | The semiconductor game is kind of rigged, assuming you
             | don't have your own fab, everyone knows your costs. They
             | know how much a wafer costs and they know the size of your
             | device, so they have a pretty good idea of what it costs
             | you per device (they don't know your yield, but can guess a
             | range).
             | 
             | Everyone uses that information to keep your profit margins
             | fairly low. Apple would pay a premium compared to other
             | manufacturers. You could probably look at the financial
             | reports of various apple suppliers and reverse engineer
             | that information.
             | 
             | Apple is extremely risk averse, them making their own
             | modems is almost certainly about reducing supply chain
             | risk.
             | 
             | Profit margins will be lower down on the priority list.
             | They can just increase the price of the phone to improve
             | those.
             | 
             | For the record, I am not an Apple fan, I disliked working
             | for one of their suppliers and dislike their products. But
             | they do pay their suppliers a premium.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | > Apple believes that the royalty should be based on the
             | cost of Qualcomm's chips instead
             | 
             | Sounds great. Apple should also base their app store tax on
             | the cost of hosting.
        
               | jboydyhacker wrote:
               | Solid response.
        
             | sonofhans wrote:
             | You know, you can disagree without including the insulting
             | language. That will lead to more and better discussion.
        
               | izacus wrote:
               | There's nothing seriously insulting in that post. Calling
               | out biased Apple defenders for their misleading claims
               | isn't an insult no matter how much some would want it.
        
             | j16sdiz wrote:
             | > Third, Apple's legal argument was always that Qualcomm's
             | per-device (ie, final product) royalty basis licensing
             | offer was not FRAND. Apple believes that the royalty should
             | be based on the cost of Qualcomm's chips instead. But, of
             | course, there is no legal basis or industry practice to
             | support Apple's unfounded claim and, consequently, LOST
             | EVERY lawsuit based on this claim for past 10+ years.
             | 
             | Did you check FTC v Qualcomm antitrust case? Can you stop
             | your lies?
        
               | tooltalk wrote:
               | >>Can you stop your lies?
               | 
               | When are you going to stop spreading misinformation?
        
               | tooltalk wrote:
               | >> Did you check FTC v Qualcomm antitrust case? Can you
               | stop your lies?
               | 
               | Sure, isn't that the case Qualcomm reversed and won?
               | Sure, most legal analysts had expected Apple's sweetheart
               | judge Lucy Koh to hand a victory to FTC as it was no
               | coincidence how the case ended up on her desk in the
               | first place. This was however unanimously reversed due to
               | its flawed constrution of Qualcomm's monopoly in premium
               | LTE market and Judge Koh's expansive interpretation (in
               | favor of Apple/FTC).
               | 
               | But wrt Apple's claim on royalty basis? Not so much.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Apple has enough cash on hand to buy 1/3 to half of Qualcomm
           | but the government would likely shut that down quite quickly.
           | 
           | So they'll roll their own. They built a CPU so a modem
           | shouldn't be incredibly difficult.
        
             | nerdjon wrote:
             | This isn't quite them just building their own. Or at least
             | presumably.
             | 
             | in 2019 they bought the modem business from Intel.
        
               | tnel77 wrote:
               | I feel like this is getting a little nuanced. "They
               | bought a company to get a head start, thus they didn't
               | actually create their own modem."
               | 
               | It's been roughly four years since that purchase. Surely
               | they've done some work since then that would justify
               | labeling it as "Apple created their own modem."
               | 
               | I feel like this would be comparable to me saying I
               | cooked dinner and someone replying "you bought the food
               | from Kroger and the cookbook from Barnes & Noble, so it
               | doesn't count" while I stare at a pile of dirty dishes
               | like "sure feels like it counts."
        
               | nerdjon wrote:
               | I agree with where you are going with that, but the
               | person I responded too mentioned that they could buy a
               | part part of qualcom but instead just made their own.
               | 
               | But instead they bought part of intel. It doesn't
               | diminish what Apple is building, but I think given the
               | context it is important.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | I was more emphasizing that if Apple was willing to "go
               | it alone" on their CPUs (which they did by an
               | acquisition, to be sure) then they probably have no issue
               | at all "going alone" on the radio/modem, and I'm actually
               | a bit surprised they didn't do that _first_ - I guess
               | modems are more complicated /difficult than CPUs.
        
               | joezydeco wrote:
               | The PASemi team took two years from acquisition to first
               | Apple silicon. I'm guessing the Intel stuff was a lot
               | messier. It's not like Intel was a streamlined company
               | that excelled at embedded SoCs.
        
               | meepmorp wrote:
               | At least a couple of those years were the pandemic, so
               | that might've affected some timelines.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | Interesting that no one talks about the elephant in the room
           | - why are technologies for supposed public standards
           | patentable in the first place?
           | 
           | IMO, all standards that are mandated to be used by a
           | government or a regulatory agency should be patent and
           | royalty free and accessible by everyone, alone to have a
           | healthy competition space instead of (effectively) a Qualcomm
           | monopoly on the vendor side.
        
             | giantrobot wrote:
             | > why are technologies for supposed public standards
             | patentable in the first place
             | 
             | Because they were developed in private by the stakeholders
             | and then submitted as part of the standardization process.
             | Money _did_ get spent. At the core of the situation is
             | multiple private companies all contribute technology
             | towards a standard that a larger group of companies can
             | implement. Without the option of license fees there 's
             | little incentive for companies to invest in developing
             | these technologies.
             | 
             | Part of the standardization process is making the patent
             | licenses available at a "fair and reasonable" rate (FRAND).
             | When the patent holders have large patent pools of their
             | own they cross-license in lieu or in addition to paying
             | actual license fees.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | Governments could also push for these standards to be
               | developed at universities or pay companies to develop
               | them, to be then openly released.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Thank you! That's incredibly helpful context.
        
         | seiferteric wrote:
         | How about security? My understanding is these things have an
         | entire other processor outside of iOS control that can control
         | your phone and is buggy.
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | Battery life improvements.
       | 
       | I have to imagine this will bring considerable battery life
       | improvements since the radio will be fab on the same latest
       | generation TSMC node that Apple gets access too (as opposed to
       | Qualcomm fab'ing on 3+ year old nodes).
        
         | selectodude wrote:
         | Qualcomm fabs on Samsung "4nm".
        
           | tooltalk wrote:
           | Qualcomm fabs on Samsung and TSMC. Unlike Apple who put all
           | their eggs in one basket, TSMC, Qualcomm always used multiple
           | fabs -- usually rotate between releases -- to produce their
           | chips. Qualcomm also was one of SMIC's largest customers
           | before they were blacklisted.
        
         | Varloom wrote:
         | They won't manufacture something secondary such as a modem on
         | cutting edge super expensive silicon.
         | 
         | Pretty sure I've read on Macrumors that they are developing
         | their modem on TSMC 6nm.
        
           | mdasen wrote:
           | I'm surprised that they aren't trying to integrated it into
           | the CPU like Qualcomm does with the Snapdragon processors.
        
             | nordsieck wrote:
             | > I'm surprised that they aren't trying to integrated it
             | into the CPU like Qualcomm does with the Snapdragon
             | processors.
             | 
             | Sometimes it's not worth the hit to yield to put it on die.
             | On package might be a better tradeoff.
        
             | corbulo wrote:
             | The thermals on that would be difficult to deal with I
             | think. Snapdragon had thermal problems for a long time.
             | Have they solved it? What did they end up doing?
        
         | HDThoreaun wrote:
         | Why would apple waste the limited high end fab space on the
         | modem? They'll probably fab it on a generation or two old
         | process.
        
           | tiffanyh wrote:
           | It's all SoC
        
             | nwiswell wrote:
             | Is it monolithic SoC or advanced packaging? There's no
             | reason you can't have the processor at 3nm and the modem at
             | 6nm with chiplets
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | GeekyBear wrote:
         | Although logic circuits are available at every process node,
         | some specialized usages like radio frequency transceivers
         | aren't available on every process node from TSMC.
         | 
         | The most recent node change from TSMC intended for use in
         | cellular modems was the jump from 16nm to 6nm in 2021.
         | 
         | > Compared with 16FFC RF, its predecessor, N6RF supports 3.2X
         | logic density, 55% power reduction, and 0.38X SRAM scaling in
         | terms of digital KPI. N6RF can deliver ideal RF performance and
         | power efficiency for 5G and Wi-Fi 6 & 6E applications that
         | demand both performance and power to enable flexibility for
         | system optimization.
         | 
         | https://rf.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/RF.h...
         | 
         | https://www.anandtech.com/show/16030/tsmc-updates-on-node-av...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mrkramer wrote:
       | Ofc Apple can do it inhouse but I as an "economist" wonder who
       | can specialise better? Apple is bigger and more powerful than
       | Qualcomm but do they really have that comparative advantage to
       | deliver better product. Qualcomm has years of know-how but
       | looking from Apple's point of view it is better to be self-
       | sufficient then to rely on the 3rd party. I guess time will show.
        
         | euos wrote:
         | Apple has the volume. Random search shows they have roughly a
         | quarter of the world smartphone sales (I also would expect
         | Apple users to upgrade more frequently). Apple has just several
         | SoC packages with the same cores across all its products.
         | Samsung (2nd is sales volumes) has many more product lines and
         | uses vastly different silicon.
        
       | rdsubhas wrote:
       | It's interesting to see discussions here that are adamant that
       | this is _only_ about improving profit, or _only_ about quality
       | (battery), or _only_ about getting back at qualcomm.
       | 
       | Apple has repeatedly shown that you don't have to make decisions
       | on one to compromise the other. You can launch your own chip
       | (M1), and improve quality (battery, perf), and improve profits,
       | and get back at intel.
       | 
       | It's the same here. Watch the iFixit teardown videos to see just
       | how big the standalone qualcomm modem chip is. I knew it was big,
       | but it was even bigger than I thought.
       | 
       | Apple moving to an integrated chip can be a win in both quality
       | (battery improvement and space on the SoC to put other stuff),
       | cost, and getting back at qualcomm (who is getting more and more
       | like Intel of mobile world, comfortable, monopolistic,
       | litigative). They've proven that a vertically integrated SoC is
       | better in every way.
       | 
       | So maybe stop arguing whether it's "this or that" it's this and
       | that.
        
         | yrdmb wrote:
         | > You can launch your own chip (M1), and improve quality
         | (battery, perf), and improve profits, and get back at intel.
         | 
         | It's less about "getting back at intel" and more about having
         | so much money that they need somewhere to invest it or increase
         | the dividend and send that profit to the shareholders. The past
         | decade, investors have constantly demanded Apple to turn over
         | more/all of their cash to shareholders. A defense against
         | activist investors is to show shareholders you are investing
         | for the future. Bringing more production in-house is a great
         | way to do it since it would eliminate future expenditures and
         | increase profits in the future. Of course it all depends on
         | execution. If Apple keeps minting money and their in-house
         | hardware stack proves a success, I wouldn't be surprised if
         | they start creating an in-house app stack.
        
         | quitit wrote:
         | Also an overlooked point is diversification: Apple's chip
         | aspirations have allowed functionality that isn't
         | trivially/inexpensively possible with standard parts. This also
         | makes copying any unique ideas much more difficult, since
         | competitors can't just approach the chipmaker for the same
         | part.
         | 
         | Apple could very well bring innovations to cellular modems that
         | make their products behave more seamlessly or are simpler to
         | use. Additionally they may introduce features that aren't
         | currently possible with Qualcomm's designs.
        
         | scetron wrote:
         | I definitely tend to agree. So many decisions, not just in
         | product design or strategy, DO happen to take one option above
         | all others. Increasing the overlap and moving all indicators at
         | once is how you get ahead these days. Companies, products and
         | strategies that focus on one thing above all else will probably
         | tend to start not really cutting it when it comes to success.
        
         | mrkramer wrote:
         | I tend to think that big companies as they grow lose their
         | focus and fail to adapt and further specialise. Just look at
         | Google, they are imploding under their weight.
        
           | kjreact wrote:
           | It's so common to see Google bashing on HN now that it's
           | become a cliche. Google has never been good at monetizing
           | products beyond their search. I don't think it has anything
           | to do with growing too large for its own good. Google is this
           | generation's Xerox PARC.
        
         | PHGamer wrote:
         | yea but apple has also chosen to use lightning with shit xfer
         | speeds just to lock in its customers. m1 might have been nice
         | but not every descision they made was good (look how they
         | nerfed qualcomm iphones back in the day because the intel
         | models couldnt compete with it)
        
           | ZainRiz wrote:
           | First I'm hearing about nerfed iphones, but if true this
           | sounds like a reasonable decision from a business
           | perspective.
           | 
           | They wouldn't want customers worrying about whether they got
           | the better qualcomm iPhone X or the slower intel iPhone X.
           | 
           | Apple could have chosen to make everything with the faster
           | qualcomm chips, but they prob wanted to derisk their supply
           | chain by diversifying onto two chip manufacturers (and
           | perhaps play them against each other for negotiating power)
           | 
           | Either ways, once you arrive a the result that you need to
           | chip manufacturers making chips for the same phones, you need
           | to make sure your customers have practically the same
           | experience regardless of the underlying hardware they end up
           | with
           | 
           | Consistency is key
        
           | unxdfa wrote:
           | The reason they went with Lightning was because the other
           | option was Micro-USB at the time. Lightning is so so so much
           | more robust than that awful USB connector and can be inserted
           | any way round. Bring on 2015 and USB-C appeared which Apple
           | jumped on pretty quickly with their MacBooks.
           | 
           | The iPhone is an outlier because due to the insane number of
           | devices out there, if you change it now everyone's Lightning
           | accessories are dead in the water. But it doesn't really
           | matter now. Only thing Lightning gets used for most users is
           | charging and it works fine for that and people have cables
           | and chargers already floating around. This isn't a big deal
           | really. They ship a USB-C to Lightning cable with the last 2
           | iPhones I bought and all my chargers are USB-C.
        
             | yieldcrv wrote:
             | > This isn't a big deal really.
             | 
             | The USB 2.0 speeds are a big deal.
             | 
             | If your iCloud Drive is full and your phone is full, your
             | wired backup that should take 20 minutes is going to take
             | 14 hours.
             | 
             | I hope the EU forces their hand on putting USB-C in at USB
             | 3 or Thunderbolt speeds.
        
               | ArchOversight wrote:
               | USB-C is a connector. USB 2.0 is one of the things that
               | runs across USB-C.
               | 
               | The EU is only forcing Apple to ship with USB-C so that
               | every single mobile device uses the same connector for
               | charging.
        
               | unxdfa wrote:
               | I haven't had that happen in the 10 years I've had iOS
               | devices.
               | 
               | Last time I plugged anything in other than for charging
               | was an iPod. Even my DSLR talks to the phone via WiFi.
        
               | yieldcrv wrote:
               | was there a point you are making or just a natural
               | language response?
               | 
               | your use case isn't the only use case, expanding the
               | possible use cases in obvious ways expands what users
               | would do, such as upgrading 10 year old technology. News
               | at 11.
        
               | unxdfa wrote:
               | The point is that sure you can punch yourself in the
               | balls, complain it hurts then call for the regulators to
               | provide a mechanism for you to stop punching yourself in
               | the balls.
               | 
               | Or you could just stop punching yourself in the balls
               | i.e. use WiFi and FGS just pay $3 for some storage rather
               | than coming up with a wobbly straw man.
               | 
               | My experience is fairly vast. I use iOS for
               | music/video/photography (iPad Pro), and support 11 other
               | iOS devices (excluding watches, homepods) across my
               | family who range from biochemical engineers to students
               | to children to retirees to software engineers. That use
               | case NEVER comes up these days in my experience unless
               | you're hurting yourself.
        
               | yieldcrv wrote:
               | this isn't a problem I have, it is a problem I know other
               | people have. solved by faster transfer speeds than what
               | Wifi or any airdrop combo offers. I am completely aware
               | of how to avoid the problem, I am also completely aware
               | of how to make it less of a problem with faster transfer
               | speeds.
               | 
               | why are you worried about accessories? Apple absolutely
               | is not worried about that, one of their favorite things
               | to do is pull the rug under accessory holders.
        
               | Kirby64 wrote:
               | You know they won't. Take a look at what they did on the
               | iPad lineup for what is coming on the iPhones:
               | 
               | Basic iPads only support USB2.0 transfer rates (480
               | Mbps). The iPad Pros get full Thunderbolt speeds. Expect
               | the same for iPhones, I'd say.
               | 
               | The EU mandate is about forcing a single connector type.
               | It doesn't say anything about quality of service of the
               | connector, because ultimately it depends on the device.
        
               | ThatPlayer wrote:
               | The new iPad Mini is fun, it's got USB 2.0 client (hooked
               | up to a host computer), but a USB 3.0 host controller
               | (plug a USB drive into the iPad).
               | 
               | I like comparing it to a Raspberry Pi 4 that does the
               | same thing.
        
         | metadat wrote:
         | I don't see any obvious modem here:
         | https://valkyrie.cdn.ifixit.com/media/2022/10/07111353/iPhon...
         | 
         | Is this it?
         | https://fdn.gsmarena.com/imgroot/news/22/09/iphone-14-satell...
         | 
         | (From https://m.gsmarena.com/ifixit_iphones_sos_via_satellite_f
         | eat...)
         | 
         | If so, then yes that's a shockingly large piece of the phone.
         | 
         | Edit: @rdsubhas: Your link confirms that the modem really does
         | take up a sizeable portion of the entire volume of the phone.
         | Now Apple's desire to get more control of it makes a lot more
         | sense. Thank you!
        
           | rdsubhas wrote:
           | This was the teardown video I was referencing, showing size
           | of the modem at 3:45 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=22
           | 5&v=DDV0_fDJZ40&feature=yo...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jaywalk wrote:
       | 2024 headline: "Qualcomm sues Apple for patent infringement"
        
         | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
         | There are two kinds of companies in this world: those currently
         | being sued by Qualcomm and those Qualcomm is considering suing.
        
         | eppp wrote:
         | Has already happened many many times
        
         | tiffanyh wrote:
         | Nope.
         | 
         | This was resolved back in 2019, with Apple paying $5B to
         | Qualcomm
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/04/qualcomm-and-apple-ag...
        
         | meepmorp wrote:
         | ... again
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jof wrote:
       | Could it also be, with the advent of Satellite SOS, that Apple is
       | starting to explore non-conventional mobile RF protocols, and
       | that Qualcomm's product offerings are only really geared towards
       | generic, standards-based mobile networks.
        
         | roneythomas6 wrote:
         | Satellite SOS is based on the same bands used by 5g. Also it is
         | now part of 5G NR Release 17. Qualcomm modems since Sanapdragon
         | X60 had support for these bands. Even before Qualcomm
         | officially announced Snapdragon satellite with X70 modem,
         | Huawei was offering satellite communication with Snapdragon X65
         | in China, which is the same modem found in iPhone 14 series.
        
       | gsich wrote:
       | Good. Qualcomm can burn for their shitty driver policy. Main
       | reason why Android upgrades are (it's getting better ...) such a
       | clusterfuck.
        
         | RealStickman_ wrote:
         | At least they're better than Mediatek afaik
        
         | robotnikman wrote:
         | Not sure why you are getting downvoted, because its true.
         | Qualcomm is one of the main things holding Android devices
         | back, and their driver policy is shitty.
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | If you saw the code you would thank your stars no one can see
           | it.
        
           | BuildTheRobots wrote:
           | I don't suppose someone could point to more info on this?
        
             | r1ch wrote:
             | It's the same reason why your home router runs an ancient
             | version of Linux that can never be updated. The hardware
             | requires a proprietary firmware blob that only links with a
             | specific kernel. You can never update the system
             | independently, you're at the mercy of Qualcomm releasing
             | updated blobs.
        
             | babypuncher wrote:
             | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/03/the-
             | fairphone-2-hits...
             | 
             | Basically Qualcomm only releases proprietary Linux drivers
             | for their chips, provided as a precompiled binary blob, and
             | they only offer ~2 years of support before dropping them
             | all together.
             | 
             | Because the Linux kernel does not have a stable binary
             | interface for driver modules, getting an old driver to work
             | with a new version of the kernel can become a hacky
             | nightmare.
        
         | spyremeown wrote:
         | They're also the reason behind the shitty Arm PCs. I despise
         | Qualcomm.
        
       | mohamedattahri wrote:
       | Hard to resist the extrapolation from Visual Voicemail to see
       | Apple one day in the near future shipping software for carriers
       | to deploy on their networks to support features E2E integrated
       | with their modems.
        
       | unxdfa wrote:
       | If you have enough cash and in house engineering skills to pull
       | this off it makes sense. You get full control over the baseband
       | firmware, power management, supply chain, cost, integration,
       | process, security surface, everything.
        
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       (page generated 2023-03-01 23:02 UTC)