[HN Gopher] Loneliness reshapes the brain
___________________________________________________________________
Loneliness reshapes the brain
Author : theafh
Score : 209 points
Date : 2023-02-28 16:00 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.quantamagazine.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.quantamagazine.org)
| danayfm wrote:
| Moved to the US many years ago after living in Asia and in Europe
| and I've struggled the most here in making friends and meeting
| new people. I thought it was me and even moved to a bigger city
| in the US and still find it hard to make meaningful connection
| with anyone. Like others mentioned maybe it's the American
| capitalism, or internet. I think also maybe cars (greater
| distance, individual travel, road rage, etc.) influence in how we
| feel lonely but still surrounded by people.
| pelorat wrote:
| Living reshapes the brain.
| 10xDev wrote:
| Lockdowns were a severe mistake and we are still paying for it.
| jkmcf wrote:
| In retrospect, I agree with you.
|
| Between masking --especially promoting masking with inadequate
| masks--, lockdowns, and anything else tried, they were met with
| 50% resistance which nullified any potential, positive effect.
| cubefox wrote:
| I the meant that many people got lonely.
| 41amxn41 wrote:
| [dead]
| BizarreByte wrote:
| It has messed with me pretty badly. I'm trying to change my life
| to get out of the hole I find myself in, but it's really
| difficult.
| GalenErso wrote:
| Are we lonely if we are on HN?
| dbavaria wrote:
| I'm still embarrassed to say "My online friends", but they've
| often had a huge impact on my life.
| passion__desire wrote:
| A meme from totally random stranger teaches you more about
| life than a close physical friend.
| bacchusracine wrote:
| That's my secret. I'm always lonely.
| vstm wrote:
| You merely adopted the loneliness, I was born in it :-(
| jimbokun wrote:
| If it's your only social outlet, yes.
| cubefox wrote:
| In general, we have a lot of interactions online, but
| unfortunately those do not have the positive effects physical
| contacts have.
|
| On HN we are normally not even "online friends" with specific
| other users. The users are identifiable just as some little
| grey nickname. Who even is this "GalenErso" guy? Or "cubefox"?
| What are they up to? We might as well all post anonymously, the
| outcome would basically be the same.
|
| That's not a natural way to interact, no wonder the brain
| breaks a little if it does not much else.
| politician wrote:
| Not to mention that HN has specific technological
| countermeasures to prevent genuine conversations between two
| users from developing. Specifically, the response rate
| limiter and the absence of a response awareness or
| notification system.
| cubefox wrote:
| In the old days, forums often had attached chatrooms. Forum
| people could hang out there and just do small talk. It
| seems every forum today, every subreddit, should have a
| chat room. Still, even this is not nearly as healthy as
| meeting people face to face.
| dnissley wrote:
| Also no DMs (unless you have > X karma?)
| david_allison wrote:
| No DMs: https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-
| undocumented
| seydor wrote:
| Yes
| 000ooo000 wrote:
| Struggling with loneliness for the first time in my life, at the
| moment. My core group of friends, whom I've known for 25+ years,
| all each had a kid in the space of a year. The pandemic made
| keeping those friendships alive difficult, but the kids turned it
| up a notch. I was gaslighting myself for a while that they were
| just busy, but when I heard about a couple of social things that
| I wasn't invited to, I realised that the friendships weren't on
| hold, they were hanging up. As an experiment, I stepped back and
| started to match the effort they were putting in and sadly I
| haven't spoken to some in months, some years. Working remotely, I
| need to make a real effort to maintain some social element in my
| life but having lost this core group of friends has been a huge
| blow; I have pretty regular dreams about it. Stoked to learn my
| brain is atrophying as a result!
| LanceMagnussen wrote:
| scary to think how it has an actual physical outcome
| Jensson wrote:
| > social isolation and environmental monotony
|
| So not just loneliness, but boredom in general.
| dadjoker wrote:
| This comports with this study I saw recently.
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-022-01453-0
|
| And yet in the name of "safety" and "protection" our betters
| forced isolation on everyone, and we are reaping the results.
| irrational wrote:
| This is one of the downsides of losing our religion (REM has
| entered the chat). Churches used to provide a community for
| people to combat loneliness. We've replaced this sense of
| community with... well, nothing really.
| notmindthegap wrote:
| Not just losing religion, but losing every source of shared
| purpose that people have historically relied upon. Religion is
| bad. Having kids is increasingly looked down upon. People are
| losing any and all sense of professional duty.
|
| And yet, no alternatives have been offered.
| dc-programmer wrote:
| If it is just a case of people losing their religion, then
| people would be substituting their time with secular communal
| activities like bowling leagues or freemasonry. Instead
| everyone just became a shut in. I believe the real reasons run
| much deeper
| 000ooo000 wrote:
| 'The Third Place' is an interesting theory related to this
| stuff. Can certainly see how the decline of the third place
| fits in with a lot of the comments here.
| uoaei wrote:
| They have very much done that with Marvel characters and
| Twitch streamers. Relationship with a personal god is only
| the most parasocial relationship, but there are many flavors
| of this. I have noticed that among many peoples with regular
| access to TV and the internet, small talk often veers toward
| the consumption of popular culture and various impressions
| and opinions about those consumption products.
|
| Religion is a mythic lens through which to view reality, a
| framework of archetypes to superimpose on a chaotic world, to
| make it feel more comprehensible, and thus safer. For many
| they can reach a sense of safety by communing with others
| about the recognizable values and behaviors of their favorite
| fictional characters.
|
| Now you don't even have to know the people you're talking to,
| because you can assemble in pseudonymous fanbase forums to
| find that community. You see it in everything from K-pop
| Twitter to Star Wars reddit.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Sometimes I noticed is that if I spend too long alone, and I can
| walk in nature, it fills a kind of social need. Nature is lively.
| By the time you finished exploring the surrounding you're ready
| to enjoy your cave again.
| [deleted]
| giantg2 wrote:
| Well I'm fucked
| getYeGone wrote:
| Hard not feel like shit. Yesterday there was an article on
| reddit about how so many young men are single and sexless,
| which is certainly true for me, going on 5 years. In addition
| to the loneliness. Feels like an epidemic.
| 2devnull wrote:
| This isn't a very useful discussion without reference to
| displacement, geographically and socially. When we compare our
| atomized society to others and note the contrast, rarely to we
| correctly pinpoint the cause of the atomization. It's very
| obvious, displacement and cultural change are the root cause.
| Humans benefit from homeostasis. If they have homeostasis they
| will optimize culture for human needs and the common good.
| Disruption to that homeostasis brings a number of ills, isolation
| being just one of many.
| cubefox wrote:
| Isn't atomization simply a consequence of the Internet? People
| go out less because they can use social media and Netflix,
| which doesn't make us as happy.
| skilled wrote:
| The society we live in shoves loneliness down your throat and
| goes on to celebrate that.
|
| So, the only way out is to live through that slump and figure out
| who you are in this world, because it doesn't matter if you have
| 100 or 0 people around you - when life comes knocking, it will
| only ever knock on _your_ door.
|
| Having said that, I'd imagine that most people who are lonely do
| eventually come to the realization that they're confusing their
| emotions with reality. No medication will ever fine-tune your
| minds frequency to be able to hear your own voice that lives in
| your head.
|
| And I think most _crafty_ people in this world do eventually
| figure out that this life 's short, and that spending your time
| worrying about bullshit (or worse yet, kicking yourself down
| deliberately) isn't worth it.
|
| But I digress... If you haven't gotten to the Existential
| Loneliness stage yet, I suppose you're afforded some luxuries to
| carry on for a while still...
| [deleted]
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > The society we live in shoves loneliness down your throat and
| goes on to celebrate that.
|
| I primarily blame the Internet (or more generally, online
| interaction). Aside from little bits of oasis like HN (which,
| of course, still has no shortage of its own problems), the
| Internet is a big toxic brew of hate. Sometimes old school hate
| (racism, etc), but hate over everything else. Hate for people
| who like Teslas, or iPhones, or pickup trucks, or cars in
| general, or single family houses, etc. It feels like everyone
| believes the rest of the world wants to hear them bitch. (yes,
| here I am, bitching)
|
| No wonder everyone feels lonely, it is hard to get any
| connection in such an environment.
|
| Sometimes I think it endangers my own sanity, the more I am
| exposed to it, and I kinda want to /dev/null everything but
| wikipedia. LOL.
| 2devnull wrote:
| Wikipedia is an hate filled cesspool where literal war is
| being waged, day in day out, year after year. If you don't
| understand that, I'm guessing you don't view the history or
| talk sections, which makes you a uniformed user, and arguably
| quite naive about how the internet works, and because of that
| also naive about current events. There is some good stuff on
| Wikipedia still, but it's heading in the same direction as
| everything else. The center does not hold.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| My gut says you did not intend for this to be a textbook
| example of what I was referring to.
|
| I would ask that in the future you get to know me a little
| better before you call me a dipshit. I have only been doing
| the online thing since the 80s, so there are plenty of
| things I have yet to learn. Thankfully I have finally
| forgotten how to configure UUCP, though.
| 2devnull wrote:
| You're correct it was a stupid post on my part. I would
| delete it if I could. My emotions got the better of me.
| I'm frustrated by the decline of Wikipedia and used your
| post as a chance to air that frustration. I do apologize
| and I'm sure you understand that my post will taken by
| most people as a stupid, emotional rant rather than any
| reasonable statement about your intelligence.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| No big deal, though I'm happy that you walked it back.
| I'm not immune to making ill-advised comments online
| myself. More often than I'd care to admit, even on HN.
|
| I did think wikipedia might be a controversial choice in
| my original post, but decided to run with it -- I was
| trying to convey a thought, not necessarily a literal
| plan. I understand wikipedia is edited by humans, and not
| all of them are acting in good faith. But at the same
| time, I like to think of deep diving into wikipedia
| reading articles on science, or animals, or other
| generally non-controversial topics is perhaps one of the
| most rewarding uses of the Internet. It's that little
| remnant of the original dream of putting knowledge in the
| hands of everyone.
| Damogran6 wrote:
| Is it, though? Yes, hate for something other people love
| (Teslas in your example) is everywhere, but the most
| successful places are those that let you regulate that,
| regulate it for you, or the culture refuses to accept it.
|
| I'll disengage from Twitter when it's too negative and when I
| return its better, either because the russian trollfarm is
| sleeping, or Twitter notice I disengaged and works to 'do
| better'.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > the most successful places are those that let you
| regulate that, regulate it for you, or the culture
|
| Like I said, HN ;-). DanG is a treasure. One need look no
| farther than Reddit to truly appreciate how valuable a
| skilled, patient moderator is. But as you say, culture
| plays a role as well. Probably nothing DanG could do would
| be enough if the general culture amongst HN users was
| unwilling to go along.
|
| Your second point is also a good one, I think. Perhaps the
| toxic nature of the Internet can be mitigated effectively
| by remembering to take a break and disconnect the feedback
| loop.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| While the outsize role the Internet has come to play in our
| lives is the source of a lot of problems I'd argue that pre-
| internet society had problems just as serious, but not as
| visible.
|
| It was much more of an extravert's world back then, and those
| who were introverted or otherwise out of beat with society at
| large had a more difficult time trying to find somewhere to
| belong. The more socially-charged nature of life could
| sometimes be overwhelming even for introvert-leaning
| ambiverts. You didn't hear much about it though, because this
| group of people by their own nature didn't have a voice, and
| this was exacerbated by introvert/nerd stereotypes being used
| for laughs in pop culture.
|
| But things have now clearly swung too far in the other
| direction. Everybody has a voice (or at least thinks they do)
| and takes their own opinions as universal fact. I wonder what
| it'll take to arrive at a happy medium.
| sph wrote:
| I blame the Internet for another reason: we're spending so
| much time online no one has time for face-to-face
| communication, either with friends or strangers.
|
| I have some teenage year family members, and the amount of
| loneliness symptoms and behaviours I see in 16-18 years olds
| is staggering. I myself am suffering from it in my 30s, but I
| grew up in the middle of nowhere and I had more real-life
| interactions than most teenagers.
|
| Online communication carries a lot of downsides, but the
| primary one is that is just does not activate the part of the
| brain that makes you feel like you're hanging out with a
| human. You know you're talking to a human even behind a
| screen, but it's just a high-level abstraction that often
| breaks down and is the reason even the best of people
| sometimes are total jerkwads online.
|
| I grew up on the net, it gave me my first friends, and now
| it's making me so bloody lonely I am literally convinced I
| would feel more socially nourished if I lived in a shed in
| the woods and went to the city for shopping once a month. And
| there's just so many people everywhere. It's either your
| small Discord with the same friends, or social media at large
| where everyone is a stranger, just an avatar that has little
| to no impact whatsoever on your life.
| the_snooze wrote:
| >I blame the Internet for another reason: we're spending so
| much time online no one has time for face-to-face
| communication, either with friends or strangers.
|
| One of the reasons why I absolutely hate QR code menus at
| restaurants. They make the default state of the table as
| "phones out." Even in an in-person interaction, the
| Internet is still necessarily _right there_.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Yeah I hate those. I ask for a menu. If they don't have
| one, I make the server tell me what they have.
| DesiLurker wrote:
| yes, Thats the hill I am willing to die on. I have walked
| out of restaurants who refused to provide me a physical
| menu (post covid).
| imbnwa wrote:
| >I blame the Internet for another reason: we're spending so
| much time online no one has time for face-to-face
| communication, either with friends or strangers.
|
| That said, meat space interactions are filled with implicit
| hierarchies, activates power posturing that only manifests
| online with specific triggers, social and xenophobic
| anxieties, etc. Just for example, as long as I type in a
| certain register, you wouldn't be able to premise your
| response on a set of learned and intuitive behaviors, which
| not only frees both of us from ourselves in a certain
| sense, but the conversation as well.
|
| In real life, people implicitly respond to the fact that
| they're talking to a physically unable person, a Black
| person, a Trans person, a cis woman, a person they're
| attracted to, an ESL speaker, etc, and this changes the
| course of things.
|
| Not to suggest you're advocating for abolition and severe
| restriction, I take it you're advocating for finding some
| balance or other. But maybe just to attenuate that search,
| there's something of value to exclusively online
| discoursing that is enabling of things that're more
| difficult to access than in real-life. Obviously the
| downsides here are trolls/committal toxic behavior.
| jimbokun wrote:
| All of that is true, and it's STILL crucial to have a lot
| of in person socializing.
|
| That is the painfully learned lesson of the mobile phone
| and social media. It has led to a catastrophic increase
| in mental health issues, especially for young people.
| waboremo wrote:
| The idea that loneliness can be solved with even more
| loneliness is an idea so patently American it's hilarious.
| I know you're being facetious, but part of the hilarity
| stems from how many others genuinely believe a shed in the
| woods is the answer to their problems.
|
| Which is part of the problem, people would rather sit idle
| and do nothing except dream of the ideal isolated state,
| than to bake some cupcakes and give them to a neighbor,
| join a book club, participate in more sports, the list goes
| on and on it's truly endless.
|
| I've found that the loneliness epidemic is not one of
| loneliness, but of comfort. People do not want to
| experience discomfort and the inconveniences that are a
| natural part of social life. It's so much easier to open HN
| than to message one of your friends from the net and hang
| out. Why join a class to learn to cook when you can just
| download an app to order? These conveniences are the source
| of your loneliness.
|
| Side note, the best people being jerkwads online only stems
| from two roots: misunderstanding (as text is difficult to
| grasp), or people wanting to hurt. Yes it's true, even the
| best of people can want to hurt others, but it's not due to
| them truly being evil or not knowing the person they're
| replying to is a real person - it's because they want to
| share their pain (in unhealthy ways :P). Bullies IRL
| operate the exact same way.
|
| Also I would like to push back on the idea that online
| communication does not activate "that part of the brain".
| There are numerous studies regarding the positive impact of
| elderly people utilizing the internet, this being used to
| prevent age related cognitive decline. Games too, widely
| demonized, have the same positive effect. Switching to a
| negative light, younger people are drastically more likely
| to be suicidal the more they use the internet (5+
| hours/day). Sources for all of these found here [1].
|
| How can the above paragraph be true if the brain "knows"
| it's just talking to pixels on a screen? The answer is, our
| brain doesn't (to some degree, rituals play a big role in
| why we understand watching a movie = fiction, but hanging
| out with a friend in a video call = good feelings). This is
| why it feels good to talk to friends online, but we're
| missing the _externalities_ involved with in person talk -
| mobile activity, deeply sharing your interest, gossiping,
| etc. None of these things have been replicated online
| beyond superficial methods through VR. These things, while
| uncomfortable, are crucial to actually reaping the benefits
| of community.
|
| So get a little uncomfortable!
|
| [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6502424/
| skilled wrote:
| I was having a laugh with my mother the other week, talking
| about childhood memories and things. I was a pretty
| mischievous kid when all is said and done. When I was 7 years
| old, I learned that you can take apart old radios,
| transformers, and find a lot of copper in them! And back
| then, you could sell a few hundred grams of copper at the
| scrapyard for a small fortune!
|
| So the joke was, while we as kids used to do that stuff for
| real, kids nowadays do it all from their phone...
| Spivak wrote:
| There are aspects of modern life that make it harder to make
| and keep friends as an adult but the biggest genuinely life
| changing lesson I learned is that every adult wants friends but
| struggles to make them. And you know what that dynamic means?
| You can walk up to a random adult and literally say and I quote
| "you seem cool, wanna be friends?" like you're on a schoolyard
| playground and _it works_.
|
| I accidentally texted a coworker (who I have never hung out
| with socially) who has the same name as one of my friends if
| she wanted to go to a music festival with me (like 5 days close
| quarters camping) and she said yes without hesitation. I met
| another girl at a party -- I knew of her because she was a
| friend's friend's ex but never actually talked to her. I just
| declared that we were best friends, we got drunk, and skipped
| out at the party to hang out/meet her other friends. She's my
| maid of honor. Met a guy during a charity scavenger hunt where
| the theme was to do mildly embarrassing things in public we hit
| it off after I had him take a picture of me licking a bronze
| statue's butt. I'm now in his softball league. I met a woman on
| a cruise after rescuing her son from the on-deck ropes course
| when a huge storm hit, we live super far away but play animal
| crossing together.
|
| I went from "oh no without school it's gonna be impossible to
| make friends" to "no actually this is a million times easier."
| All the stuff that makes you uncool as a teenager makes you
| interesting as an adult.
| [deleted]
| legerdemain wrote:
| "Maid of honor" suggests you identify as a woman. Experience
| suggests that women (at least in the US) have richer and more
| fluid social lives. I can easily find a good handful of
| "girls hanging out" social groups on Meetup in my relatively
| socially impoverished suburb. I suspect that my luck
| approaching random dudes with giant headphones on, staring
| intently at their laptop screens in a Starbucks will be
| pretty different.
| watwut wrote:
| What I noticed is that doing something for social reasons
| is literally stigmatized in male dominated groups
| especially when it is online and has a lot if Amerucans in
| it. I am woman that spend a lot of my time in male
| dominated tech hobbies and profession.
|
| The messages I absorbed when young roughly said that if you
| code on Christmas instead of socializing with family, then
| you are true programmer. A lot of the gatekeeping of
| hobbies against newbies is all bout checking who is "true
| fan". And true fans are not social. Are you here cause
| friends invited you to be with them? That is wrong. Did you
| came with open mind, zero knowledge and intention to
| socialize? That is wrong too. Did you became interested
| because of friends? That is wrong too. You should not be
| interested in things because anything social. It is not
| pure enough.
|
| But among people IRL who socialize a lot, including males,
| they get interested in what others do. They change
| activities to where people are. They engage in a lot of
| give and take "I accompany you to your thing and you go to
| mine".
| kbelder wrote:
| Yeah, while both genders can certainly experience and have
| loneliness, it's _massively_ more an endemic issue in
| males.
| curiousfiddler wrote:
| My guess is you live in the West. There are other cultures in
| the world, where there is still a strong sense of informal
| community. Where you can just walk to a friend or a relative's
| house unannounced for a cup of tea, without thinking all the
| time if it would inconvenience them. It feels really amazing to
| have the option to do that.
|
| I moved to the US (Bay Area) about 10 years ago after having
| spent much of my youth elsewhere, and to this day, I haven't
| been able adjust to the lack of informal social interactions
| compared to where I'm from. I really tried as well to see if
| it's me who is not able to fit in. However, after a while I
| realized it's just a cultural difference. It's a way of life
| that has existed for several decades, which has its own
| benefits.
|
| To me, US seems like an amazing place when you're in the
| apprentice/work phase of your life (20 - 45?). However, as I
| grow older, there are other things I have begun to value more,
| and one of the top ones is authentic human connection. I hope
| as US becomes more and more diverse, people from other cultures
| can add the good things they bring, instead of just trying to
| fit in to the default cultural model.
| notmindthegap wrote:
| The US is a country of immigrants who for the most part came
| here because they valued the individual over the community.
| The individualism lives in the deepest roots of our culture.
| As a child of immigrants who was born and grew up in the US,
| I feel the same way you do the older I get and have been
| seriously considering a move abroad because of it.
|
| Further, it feels like the _only_ basis of a shared culture,
| our basic political ideals, is now up for question. So if it
| isn 't faith, ethnicity, etc, then what is actually binding
| us together?
| meesles wrote:
| > The US is a country of immigrants who for the most part
| came here because they valued the individual over the
| community
|
| I disagree with that statement, despite agreeing with the
| following:
|
| > The individualism lives in the deepest roots of our
| culture.
|
| There's a plethora of reasons people come here: freedom to
| express themselves, security, financial opportunity because
| they're literally living in squalor elsewhere, etc. I don't
| think a majority of people came because they _wanted_
| individualism. They wanted to improve their situation and
| came to a country that had a pretty good marketing spiel.
|
| Also if you look at immigrant communities in the US, they
| tend to be much closer than ones that have been here for
| generations (with exceptions). They create the community
| you claim is rejected when they come to the USA. The most
| active communities I've witnessed here are the Asian,
| Hispanic, and African social circles built around the
| culture that they left behind in their home countries. So I
| don't think your argument about immigrants leaving =
| individualism holds.
| notmindthegap wrote:
| "There's a plethora of reasons people come here: freedom
| to express themselves, security, financial opportunity
| because they're literally living in squalor elsewhere,
| etc. I don't think a majority of people came because they
| _wanted_ individualism. They wanted to improve their
| situation and came to a country that had a pretty good
| marketing spiel."
|
| All these reasons are examples of valuing the individual
| over the community.
| meesles wrote:
| I disagree, I think you're oversimplifying complex
| decisions to represent an individual's value system.
|
| I can think the community is more important than the
| individual, but still leave to protect my children from
| starvation. Reducing human behavior to any single
| statement like you have done leaves many factors out,
| which is why solving these social issues is so insanely
| difficult.
| notmindthegap wrote:
| "I can think the community is more important than the
| individual, but still leave to protect my children from
| starvation."
|
| You can think that, but your actions demonstrate
| otherwise. In that scenario, you valued your children's
| health over remaining within your community. What is
| special about those specific children? They are yours
| towards whom you feel a duty you must fulfill as their
| parent. And yet, there are others who would choose to
| stay. I'm not passing judgement on either.
| mxkopy wrote:
| > What is special about those specific children?
|
| Ostensibly, they're part of the community. I'd argue it's
| not impossible, but even necessary, for the needs of a
| community to align with the needs of an individual.
| Reducing it to a "You benefit the community xor yourself"
| binary is engaging with black and white thinking.
| grugagag wrote:
| > The US is a country of immigrants who for the most part
| came here because they valued the individual over the
| community.
|
| Not enirely true, many immigrants came for better or better
| perceived economic opportunities and many continue to have
| strong but closed communities. Their children, the second
| generation immigrants allign themselves closer with US
| culture and values leaving behind communities for more
| individual values.
| notmindthegap wrote:
| The very act of leaving a community for better economic
| opportunities abroad is a demonstration of one's relative
| values, even if there is a hope to eventually reestablish
| that sense of community at some point.
| skilled wrote:
| You're right, I'm from the West. I spent 5 years in Asia in
| my 20s, which is where a lot of the wisdom comes from. I've
| lived with Balinese families, and I've spent a lot of time in
| rural areas in Cambodia, Thailand, and India. I know exactly
| what you mean when you say informal communities. It was one
| of the things I spoke about the most to the people around me
| when I got back.
|
| I could literally turn up at my friends house uninvited and
| make myself breakfast in the morning or grab some things I
| need for a long trip. I'd regularly get invited to all kinds
| of events, weddings, gatherings, and it all culminates in
| such a flowing state that you really get to enjoy being you
| as a person. I miss it.
|
| I never had to look for anyone, because from the moment I
| entered a village to rent a house/apartment, I became part of
| that community.
| curiousfiddler wrote:
| I wonder if there are ways in which part of the same
| experience can be created here. Social interactions seem to
| be a primal need for us.
| miguelazo wrote:
| American capitalism is inherently antisocial, and
| technology serves to accelerate that.
|
| https://www.versobooks.com/books/3965-scorched-earth
| jimbokun wrote:
| Is that inherent to capitalism?
|
| America in earlier times was much more community oriented
| while still being capitalist. But maybe that was tempered
| by having stronger labor organizations, civic clubs,
| churches, etc.
| freetinker wrote:
| I think it is. It is a tradeoff of capitalism. Capitalism
| creates competition, and breeds a certain level of
| mistrust. It demands hyper-individualism. That's the
| slant of the system, by design. The only solution, as you
| mentioned, is periodic tempering. And thus the pendulum
| swings.
| tempsy wrote:
| No it's more just an American thing. Greater focus on
| individualism plus nuclear families being the norm as
| opposed to multigenerational households.
|
| It's made worse by the fact most households cannot afford
| expenses without both parents working, so children are
| naturally being left alone more than previous
| generations.
| watwut wrote:
| Children arw definitely not more alone then before. They
| are way more supervised then before.
|
| It used to be normal for 6 years old or younger to go to
| school, Shor or play outside unsupervised. And in poor
| families both parents frequently needed to work while
| kids were without adult supervision. Middle and upper
| class women were stay at home, but their kids could roam
| around without parents. The helicopter parenting as
| expectation came in only lately.
| tempsy wrote:
| Lol k I'm not going to debate you on this. It wasn't
| always the case that both parents worked full time
| outside the house but you can believe whatever you want.
| mxkopy wrote:
| "Supervised" does not mean "interacting with someone
| else", it usually means they're locked in a room with an
| adult. That adult does not have to be engaging them.
|
| > And in poor families both parents frequently needed to
| work while kids were without adult supervision.
|
| There may be less strictly "poor" families now than there
| were before, but there are way less families that can
| afford hiring a nanny or similar.
| watwut wrote:
| That holds for past too. If anything, expectations on
| parent actively playing with kids, actively teaching them
| or doing enriching activities are higher. The do spend
| less time with friends , but it is not because parents
| are less engaged with them.
|
| The concept of play date is new. Parents were not
| organizing kids social lives. The need to drive somewhere
| to even have a chance on meeting someone is new. They
| used to bike to meet friends or do what they want. There
| and many changes like that. I am not saying everything is
| bad. Kids commit less crimes, gets into serious trouble
| less often. They get pregnant less, they drink less, they
| smoke and take drugs less. They are safer and are
| involved in less accidents. They finish the school more
| often.
|
| All that is good. But it is simply not true that parents
| would actively engage with kids less all in all.
|
| -------
|
| My point here is that kids and teenagers are not lonely
| because parents don't engage with them. They are lonely
| because peers don't engage with them. Fairly often they
| just don't live nearby. Or it is not accepted for kids to
| go visit them without adult having to tag along. Then
| they become teenagers and people act shocked they ...
| continue existing the way they have been raised.
| mxkopy wrote:
| There's this saying, "It takes a village to raise a
| child." I'd say
|
| > The concept of play date
|
| and
|
| > expectations on parent actively playing with kids,
| actively teaching them or doing enriching activities are
| higher
|
| are the result of the erosion of such 'villages'. As you
| imply the way kids hung out in the past was way more ad-
| hoc and unrestricted by things like travel time. I think
| ultimately that was because there was a mindset that
| people _didn 't_ have back then, namely one of perfect
| planning of all outcomes in regards to raising a kid. I
| think that too is a symptom of not having villages - how
| do you plan around 20 different near/family members
| interacting with your kid? You just kind of accepted that
| "grandma knows best", "auntie knows words", "Jack will be
| a good influence", etc.
|
| Basically I'd agree that parents might interact more with
| their kids, with the caveat that it's due to a decrease
| in engagement overall.
| danenania wrote:
| I think we can say that it's not inherent to capitalism,
| since there are plenty of capitalist countries without
| the same issues. It seems to be more about the balance
| that is struck between capitalist efficiency and social
| wellbeing. The US is heavy on the efficiency and economic
| output side of the spectrum. That comes with many
| benefits, but also major drawbacks.
| skilled wrote:
| I'm going to be quite honest, but I do believe what holds
| together the countries I mentioned is their faith, which
| is Hinduism and Buddhism respectively. And both of these
| faiths are not widely accepted in the West, but not for
| reasons most people think. It's a way of life, and
| requires immense structure to have the support of the
| citizens who actually live in the said country. And for
| most of Southeast Asia, it works. It is as clear as the
| sky above can be.
|
| But as someone already mentioned, what is happening here
| in the West is definitely making its way in the East
| towards the new generation. It's phones, it's flashy
| clothing, materialism. I definitely saw a lot of that
| too, and many parents I spoke to (which was quite a few
| over the years) - everyone said the same thing, they're
| frustrated that the children are going in a direction
| that bears no fruit for the mind.
| yeahsure wrote:
| I had the same exact experience while travelling through
| Southeast Asia for several months a few years ago.
|
| I came to the same conclusions you did, and I'm glad you
| were able to condense it in such a way.
|
| It frustrated me though, to see that their youth were
| losing their old ways though. Of course it came with some
| benefits, but I saw them everywhere staring at their
| phone screens and could only feel nostalgic.
| nosianu wrote:
| I had a similar experience growing up in East Germany,
| and there it definitely wasn't "faith".
|
| Part of it at least - not sure if I'm qualified to fully
| analyze it (I'm not) - is how equal we really were. Yes
| that includes the "rulers". If you look at the house the
| head of the GDR lived in for decades in the closed-off
| area for the ruling elites, called Wandlitz, it was
| nothing special at all. The first journalist who when the
| wall fell got to report from Wandlitz, a regular GDR
| citizen, was unimpressed and "not jealous", in his own
| words. Any craftsman could do better, even in the GDR (I
| know because my grandfather was one and our house looked
| better than that of Honecker).
|
| House of Erich Honecker: https://bmg-images.forward-
| publishing.io/2021/12/04/58cb9e33...
|
| _(Yes I know they shot people at the border. That has
| nothing to do with my point though. - The last time I
| pointed out that GDR elite at least did not behave like
| e.g. Ceausescu in Romania or Putin now and did not try to
| get rich but actually believed in their mission, somebody
| complained, but that they used deadly force of arms and
| surveillance to achieve it does not negate that.)_
|
| When the wall came down I was in the middle of the three-
| year education after the initial mandatory ten years,
| preparation to study, and we found a partner class of
| equal level in Bavaria and visited one another even
| before official reunification. We saw a completely
| different culture there. Some kids drove a BMW they got
| for birthday, others had little, there was very little
| cohesion in their class while ours was a wonderful group.
| Mind you - my class had an extreme variety of people from
| all over the GDR because we learned a very popular
| profession. We had a classmate whose parents were
| diplomats who lived in Western Europe and all over the
| world and could travel freely, we had children of
| workers, and of people high or low in some hierarchy, a
| grand mix. It did not matter! We were all as one and
| material differences just did not matter at all, they
| were tiny to begin with, compared to the vast differences
| (from our PoV) even among the middle class in the West.
|
| For us too visiting others without any preparations was
| daily normality. Of course, in the GDR we didn't even
| have phones at home for many people. My own mother had
| the chance to get a phone because she was important
| enough in her job, but she didn't want one to avoid
| getting called at home... so yeah, you just showed up at
| someone's home and it was normal.
|
| We also didn't have significant existential pressures.
| Sure, what education and job exactly you wanted took some
| effort, but it wasn't even remotely as big a deal to get
| and to keep one, and to find a home, as it is now.
|
| Yes quality and diversity of stuff you can buy and do is
| many levels above what we could do now, we wanted the
| wall gone and reunification for a reason. Also, our
| environment was in a _terrible_ state, West German did a
| gigantic and remarkable job cleaning it all up. So, when
| I say what I did above, I certainly don 't vote for
| reinstating that system, but maybe there is _something_
| to learn. It 's much more stressful now, and it's hard to
| say why that is and why we couldn't have at least a look
| at _that_ part of living in the East.
|
| I also remember quite a few community projects. Lots of
| people simply got together and did stuff. For example,
| building a _wonderful, amazing_ and today impossible (too
| unsafe!) playground, two small valleys with a hundred
| meters each of various wooden forts and many
| installations like wooden trains. Or they build several
| hundred garages together, my father went there too. Or,
| my grandfather simply spontaneously built a stone wall to
| support some sandstone wall - on a public stretch of the
| mountain road. No money was ever involved, nobody got
| paid. Companies /factories in the area donated machines
| and materials (I mean, they were people-owned and not
| private anyway) - serving the people was part of their
| mission to begin with. All the big companies had to
| produce some consumer goods too in addition to their
| normal portfolio, because the GDR was severely lacking
| those. So, much was born of necessity, but it still had
| some good parts, the cooperation for example.
|
| It also was much easier to make friends when you went
| somewhere. I know my parents - certainly not especially
| gifted in how-to-connect but quite ordinary - easily made
| friends and even met them later and invited them to visit
| us at home, and they did, in various vacations. Not just
| in the GDR, even in Hungary, another East Bloc country,
| where we went on vacation a few times. It wasn't just
| once, it was quite a regular occurrence, be it neighbors
| old and new, or people you just met. For the children it
| was so easy I don't even need to bother to describe it.
| jimbokun wrote:
| I'm not sure if it's the specific faith that matters.
| Much of the sense of community being discussed was
| provided in the West by Christian churches until
| recently.
|
| Just requires a shared belief and value system of some
| sort compatible with building communities.
| xhevahir wrote:
| I think this atomization, as well as a lot of other
| things that are distinctive about the West, came about at
| least partly through Christianity. For example, consider
| the "unprecedented inner loneliness" that Weber found in
| Calvinism.
| amerkhalid wrote:
| > I could literally turn up at my friends house uninvited
| and make myself breakfast in the morning or grab some
| things I need for a long trip.
|
| I think this depends on ages of friends. I am Pakistani who
| grew up in Saudi Arabia. This was certainly true, I could
| go to most of my friends homes unannounced. They would be
| glad that I came and vice versa. Moms will cook fresh meals
| no matter what time it was.
|
| But it was same in the US, at least, until my late
| twenties. I could visit my friends unannounced, crash at
| their place, and vice versa. And it wasn't only immigrant
| friends. Our group of friends was pretty diverse with all
| different cultures and backgrounds. Plenty of Americans and
| Europeans.
|
| It stopped only when we started to get married or got into
| super serious relationships.
|
| > I'd regularly get invited to all kinds of events,
| weddings, gatherings
|
| And this can be very tiring. I am really glad that this
| practice is not common here in the US.
|
| Many times people invite large group of people because it
| is matter of prestige, not really that they care about
| their guests. This especially true for weddings and other
| formal events. Good for wedding industry though.
| jimbokun wrote:
| My parents, who still live in the same small US town I grew
| up in, still live this way. Relatives who still live in the
| area, and random friends made over decades, will randomly
| drop by to say hello.
|
| This is especially good for my Dad, who due to health issues
| has very restricted mobility. I know his mental health would
| be much worse without this dynamic.
|
| But in the city where I live, that's not really possible.
| Friendly with neighbors and enjoy talking to them, but
| inviting myself for a tea or coffee isn't really a thing.
|
| I do have friend groups and support, especially through my
| church. But it's not the same as what you describe or what my
| parents still have.
| lastofus wrote:
| Out of curiosity, which cultures have this strong sense of
| informal community? It sounds kind of great.
| pelagicAustral wrote:
| This is very common in South America, although not as
| present in large cities. I spend some time in the Maghreb
| and they also have this trait.
| aflag wrote:
| I'd consider south america as part of the west. I'm from
| Brazil and I'd never just pop in a friend's house without
| being invited over. I suppose if you live in a small town
| that could happen. But I do think americans do that in
| small towns too.
|
| Before the smart phone I think it was less odd to pop in
| if you were in the area, but with phones, I feel like
| anywhere I lived people would at the very least send a
| message.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Maybe I misremember but the UK seemed more like this in 80s
| / 90s. The part about just turning up. Not so much th
| extended family / weddings type stuff.
|
| I think the mobile phone (original, not just smart phone)
| killed it to some extent as you would arrange things on the
| phone and not pop in.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| If you're going back that far, "popping in" was not
| uncommon in the US either. Yes mobile tech has
| contributed to reduction in unannounced visits.
|
| With the ability and expectation that you can contact
| anyone at any time and make or change plans, doing
| anything unannounced has become unexpected. It used to be
| much more normal.
| SamPatt wrote:
| Agreed. I grew up in a semi-rural area in the US in the
| 90s and no one in our community thought twice about just
| showing up.
|
| This sometimes still happened within the past decade in
| rural Virginia (my family owned a farm there). Neighbor
| farmers would stop by once a week or so and just chat,
| usually still sitting in their truck. Seemed like they
| were on their way somewhere and saw us outside so they'd
| pull over to talk.
| ROTMetro wrote:
| I grew up in Santa Cruz, went to University over the hill in
| the Bay Area, and financially had to move away well into my
| child raising years. I haven't been able to adjust to the
| lack of informal social interactions where I am now compared
| to back there.
|
| Crazy to think either 1. Things have changed significantly
| back home or 2. Moving changes our social
| networks/relationships. My parents informal community in
| Santa Cruz was non-existent (we moved there in the late 70s).
| Mine having grown up there were huge
|
| In Santa Cruz I left my garage unlocked so friends could drop
| off/pick up their surfboards at all hours (the tide cares
| nothing about the construct of time). Friends literally
| coming into our house in the early A.M. unannounced while we
| slept to get/leave their boards.
| proc0 wrote:
| > I hope as US becomes more and more diverse, people from
| other cultures can add the good things they bring, instead of
| just trying to fit in to the default cultural model.
|
| While I agree on the broader point, there is a bias here that
| I think is worth noting. There is no inherently good or bad
| cultural practice in this context. It's just a relative
| difference that of course if you're not used to it, feels
| uncomfortable. I think it's not hard to see how the flip
| scenario is also true, people who grow up with more formal
| and structured social interactions would feel uncomfortable
| in a culture that has a different social dynamic.
| freetinker wrote:
| Having lived in both cultures, I echo this. It's about
| tradeoffs. The beauty of US individualism is that it allows
| the space to go within, practice self-inquiry. A side
| effect that could be loneliness.
| NiagaraThistle wrote:
| "Where you can just walk to a friend or a relative's house
| unannounced for a cup of tea, without thinking all the time
| if it would inconvenience them."
|
| I really miss this. I have lived in the US my whole life but
| my father and much of my family is from the UK. We would
| always go over other people's houses unannounced when I was
| young and they always were excited to see us and never
| inconvenienced. Compare this to my mother's family (born and
| raised in the US but by Italian immigrants) and it was
| another story: you had to call ahead and were typically given
| a time to be in and out.
|
| Fast forward to today, and people think I'm the weird one
| when I say, let's just "pop in" instead of calling or
| texting. Except for my parents and sisters, it is completely
| unheard of to ust pop in or have someone pop in unannounced.
| My wife gets loads of laughs and shocked expressions when she
| tells friends and coworkers that me and my family don't call
| each other ahead of time to visit.
|
| It's a much different society today, but i think (hope?) the
| more people realize lonliness can (in some ways) be avoided
| by just visiting each other, I think this trend will reverse
| itself.
| curiousfiddler wrote:
| I really do hope. Sometimes, just short visits help you get
| a sense of community. And slight inconvenience is ok I
| feel, it is the cost of building/maintaining a relationship
| :)
| throw_pm23 wrote:
| When they said "the future is here, just not evenly
| distributed" -- it unfortunately applied to social dystopia,
| just as well as technical advances.
|
| So whatever culture you are from, give it a decade or two and
| it will likely catch up with the US over this. To see even
| further into the future, look at Japan.
| danenania wrote:
| It's not clear that the US is actually further in the
| future in this sense than Western/Northern Europe.
| Demographically speaking, we are behind them and headed in
| their direction, so it could well be the case that we will
| follow suit in de-prioritizing economic growth relative to
| quality of life and social cohesion. If you look at the
| political leanings of the younger vs. older generations, it
| seems reasonably likely.
|
| Japan is also a complex case. While there are the well-
| known issues with loneliness, suicide, overwork, etc., it
| also beats the US in most quality of life metrics. It has
| very high social trust, low inequality, very low crime,
| affordable housing, universal healthcare, and so on.
| ulchar wrote:
| Even if what you say is true, it's not guaranteed that
| future societies will forever be in this age of loneliness.
| Technology has moved fast and there will be growing pains,
| but I don't see evidence that we are incapable of changing
| culturally.
|
| These conversations are happening around the world, many
| people are unhappy living their lives in technological
| bubbles and many want things to change.
| curiousfiddler wrote:
| Sure, just to be very clear, I'm not boasting about this.
| And I do certainly hope that the exact opposite happens as
| we move forward to the next generation. I'm certainly
| hopeful.
| uoaei wrote:
| I heard it said once that the future will arrive at the
| same time for everyone, but the _effects_ will be unevenly
| distributed. For the simple fact that 1) some countries are
| more powerful than others and 2) "effects" to one country
| can be merely "externalities" to another.
| agumonkey wrote:
| When i see old cultures living in semi isolated places, doing
| simple stuff, and rituals in family group and carrying
| tradition, i think they've hit peak existence.
| RobRivera wrote:
| to tack on, I personally feel conquering this existential
| loneliness is an empowerment and growth exercise. Not necessary
| but creates a rather clear perception of the world, with deeper
| meanings and vision therein
| sourcecodeplz wrote:
| No one is perfect. Having shitty friends is better than no
| friends.
| proc0 wrote:
| Like everything in nature, socializing has a function, and it has
| been increasingly eroded by technology. Even a few thousand years
| ago it was the deciding survival factor. As we move deeper into
| the information age, it seems more and more inconsequential. In
| my own life, a broader social circle has mostly proven to be at
| best good entertainment, at worse it can hurt you, but usually is
| just wasted time. You meet people, learn their incredibly mundane
| and predictable lives (not excluding myself here), and then life
| happens and you don't see them ever again, or at least not enough
| to make a difference.
|
| Having a social network of people to constantly talk to is not
| needed unless we go back a few thousand years in time... which,
| to be fair, could happen with some global catastrophe, however if
| civilization keeps going, I think socializing will be about
| sharing thoughts, and not so much about physical proximity.
| 8bitsrule wrote:
| There a lot of natural stimuli missing ('environmental monotony')
| in an artificial Antarctic station's winter. Article didn't seem
| to address how factors like 'monotony' were distinguished from
| 'social isolation' (with 7 colleagues) as causal to brain changes
| ('lost prefrontal volume') in Neumayer.
|
| The headline is a stretch ... there are millions of less-
| privileged people living in Siberia and northern Canada who
| survive endless harsh winters 'living off the land' in a natural
| environment with only a few people near them ... how 'reshaped'
| are their brains?
| ablyveiled wrote:
| >In behavioral studies, lonely people picked up on negative
| social signals, such as images of rejection, within 120
| milliseconds -- twice as quickly as people with satisfying
| relationships and in less than half the time it takes to blink.
|
| Depression smells like a significant confounding factor here.
| Indeed, the article may be re-written "depression reshapes the
| brain", which, like, yeah, ok.
| lapama wrote:
| And what's the best thing to do about it, if you are socially
| excluded and cannot move out in the short term?
| TurkishPoptart wrote:
| Every day that goes by, Wallace's Infinite Jest becomes truer and
| truer.
|
| The thesis of the book is that modern entertainments just make it
| easier to be alone.
| pram wrote:
| When I was in my early 20s I was on a weird night shift for work,
| so I didn't do anything outside. I only talked a bit to some
| coworkers, and everyone on the internet was sleeping when I was
| awake. Additionally I never saw the sun during the winter months.
|
| I started developing really bad paranoia, and began hearing
| voices in my dreams. Like random fabricated female/male voices
| having unintelligible conversations. So yeah I was going
| literally crazy. I'm not surprised at all that my brain was
| probably physically decaying.
| CadmiumYellow wrote:
| During the initial covid lockdown I lived alone. I didn't see
| another person face to face from the first week of March 2020
| til the end of May. In the grand scheme of things it wasn't
| that long but by the end of that period of time I was
| experiencing mild hallucinations the majority of the time. I
| saw things moving in my peripheral vision that weren't really
| there and I frequently heard what I thought was music playing,
| but when I went to investigate it it would just be some very
| minor environmental noise like a tree branch scraping the side
| of my apartment building. I completely believe that isolation
| does weird things to your brain. I'm glad I didn't have to
| experience it any longer than that!
| PicassoCTs wrote:
| Paranoia is a side effect of the brain repairing ones self-
| esteem. The world is ignoring you, you are more unimportant
| then ever and totally social isolated (night shift or service
| jobs in other countries does that to you). But at least,
| important government organizations and conspiracies are out to
| get you.
|
| Guess the next chance to really connect with people will be,
| when we all meet at the server farm to burn this nightmare
| down.
| ThinkBeat wrote:
| This magazine seems to come up on the front page nearly every
| day. I find it to be uneven in how and what it covers. If it is a
| subject matter on which I have some actual knowledge sometimes I
| learn something, but more often I am disappointed.
| yamazakiwi wrote:
| It annoys me that this article keeps equating being alone to
| loneliness. Not everyone feels lonely while alone for extended
| periods of time. I can spend months alone and never feel lonely.
| giantg2 wrote:
| And some people can be with others and still feel lonely.
| syedkarim wrote:
| And it's also possible to experience loneliness while being
| surrounded by people.
| jimt1234 wrote:
| This ^^^ Being surrounded by people and feeling lonely is a
| lot worse than simply not being around people.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Exactly, the two are quite different. I have felt very lonely
| when at home with a romantic partner in a bad relationship. At
| other times, I have felt no loneliness while in the wilderness
| by myself for extended time periods, knowing I have a great
| network of friends, family, and a supportive partner whenever I
| need them.
| lapcat wrote:
| > It annoys me that this article keeps equating being alone to
| loneliness.
|
| It doesn't: "Social isolation, a related condition, is
| different -- it's an objective measure of how few relationships
| a person has. The experience of loneliness has to be self-
| reported"
| yamazakiwi wrote:
| It does...
|
| It states that yes; ironically, it also uses them
| interchangeably multiple times throughout the article.
| throwanem wrote:
| The next article from Quanta I see that's not at least this
| sloppy will be the first. It requires a good deal of
| critique in the reading to extract anything of value.
| carapace wrote:
| I think what you're talking about is "solitude", which is a
| kind of inverse of loneliness in that gives you a kind of inner
| strength rather than taking health away.
| nicoburns wrote:
| When you say you can spend months alone, do you mean literally
| alone - not interacting with anyone during that time at all?
| danwee wrote:
| I would say they mean minimal interaction: going to the
| supermarket and say 'Thanks' to the cashier and things like
| that...
| yamazakiwi wrote:
| sometimes minimal, sometimes absolute zero
| yamazakiwi wrote:
| I used to do it a lot in the military, months alone in a
| server room on a ship, eating alone because I'm working
| nights. This might sound like a nightmare to some but it's my
| most extreme example and I loved it. Honestly, it's relaxing
| not having to deal with people's problems all the time. I
| deal with people very frequently in my current role and I
| miss the peace and quiet.
|
| Most psychologists will tell you "we're very social
| creatures" but I was VERY social for so long that now it just
| feels like a waste of my time. People are quick to throw
| their problems on everyone around them, I get tired of the
| neediness, the games people play, the ego trips, all of it.
| It's sort of like a been there, done that, not interested
| anymore.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| That is being alone, without really being alone. I like it,
| too. I find it relaxing to know everyone is around, but
| also not have to interact directly with anyone
| individually.
| yamazakiwi wrote:
| That's an interesting point, I didn't think about that.
| That probably contributes to a positive experience for
| some.
| achairapart wrote:
| I'm a bit like you, I do like my time being alone and I almost
| never feel lonely.
|
| But I also know people who do silly things when facing the fear
| of being alone. For them, perhaps being alone equals to
| loneliness. For sure, it makes them suffer.
| seydor wrote:
| The studies linking loneliness (as in aloneness) with blood
| pressure need to be corroborated with more systematic studies.
| There is certainly a bias to consider socializing as something
| pleasant but often it is not. For people who are OK being alone,
| it's actually mostly other people that are the stressors, not
| alone-ness
|
| https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-maga...
| paparush wrote:
| Loneliness is not a phase.
| doodlesdev wrote:
| While the article is super interesting and talks about many
| different scientific finding I think there's an excerpt that's
| really important to pay attention to: > Of
| course, the chicken-and-egg question about all these findings is:
| Do differences in the brain predispose us to loneliness, or does
| loneliness rewire and shrink the brain? According to Bzdok, it's
| not currently possible to solve this puzzle. He believes,
| however, that the causality may point both ways.
|
| So the truth is "Loneliness Reshapes the Brain" might not really
| be true and it's possible it's the other way around. Anyhow we
| understand so little about the brain we'll probably just be
| speculating for a few decades about this. However, one thing's
| sure, we are social animals, and that 100% means being isolated
| is bad for whatever your body has evolved to do over the course
| of millennia.
| 2-718-281-828 wrote:
| any prolonged experience or activity shapes the brain ... duh
| elevenoh wrote:
| >In one experiment conducted in Switzerland, after volunteers
| took psilocybin, the psychoactive compound in magic mushrooms,
| they reported feeling less socially excluded.
|
| >lonely people tend to focus excessively on unpleasant social
| cues, such as being ignored by others
|
| take mushrooms help fight the epidemic of victim mentality ;)
| LoganDark wrote:
| hehe I wish~
| [deleted]
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