[HN Gopher] Shortwave: A GPT-3-powered front end for Gmail
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       Shortwave: A GPT-3-powered front end for Gmail
        
       Author : jamest
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2023-02-27 21:15 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.shortwave.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.shortwave.com)
        
       | cardosof wrote:
       | Everyone and their mother advertising AI-powered features. I
       | wonder if it's because there's a ton of value to unlock today
       | with AI or is it because that is the only way to get funding /
       | attention these days?
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | Everyone wants to try playing with it. Some people are actively
         | looking for it. And investors want to invest in it.
         | 
         | It sounds like the perfect storm to me.
        
         | frognumber wrote:
         | At least in my line of work:
         | 
         | * Ton of value.
         | 
         | * GPT-3 makes it easy to gain that value.
         | 
         | It's a little bit like the Internet gold rush of the .com boom.
         | I have no idea who'll be left standing, but there's something
         | transformational here.
        
           | wstuartcl wrote:
           | I think is a mix, there are probably a lot of areas where it
           | does provide value and it's getting to a point where training
           | or tuning existing models is low hanging fruit for those
           | areas. There is for sure another whole section of this that
           | is "second life" like for marketing teams -- where they want
           | to market something in the AI space to try to ride the wave.
           | I fear a lot of the executions coming right now are "just do
           | something with AI".
        
         | yenda wrote:
         | Both
        
         | adventured wrote:
         | There's a lot of value to be unlocked over this decade and not
         | very many people know where that value is at (so most will
         | flail around trying to find something useful). There will be a
         | massive amount of throwing things against the wall to see what
         | sticks.
        
         | ehsankia wrote:
         | While there's been a lot of attention on cases where AI fails
         | quite poorly (such as anything requires factual information),
         | it is actually very good in specific use cases.
         | 
         | I personally find it very useful for answering NP-hard-like
         | questions (Hard to find an answer to, easy to verify answer is
         | correct), such as when I have something on the tip of my tongue
         | or looking for a specific term/word.
         | 
         | It's also fairly good at summarizing, as well as generating
         | text. You may not want to send the e-mail as is, but it can be
         | a good starting point for drafting an email or message.
         | 
         | These seem like specific value add, especially in the context
         | of an email frontend.
        
         | jwngr wrote:
         | Email is the perfect tool for these new LLMs - most of us have
         | years, even decades, of our writing and important information
         | in our email archives. Now that we have AI which can understand
         | that in a deep way, a ton of value is waiting to be unlocked
         | and email is going to change. All of our tools will. I talked a
         | bit more about this in our blog post today [1].
         | 
         | Also yes, attention is nice for a small young startup fighting
         | against a bunch of giant companies who've been doing email for
         | decades. Marketing is indeed a thing :) But we stand by Smart
         | Summaries as a feature that actually makes your email
         | experience better and faster. And we plan to build more soon.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.shortwave.com/blog/ai-email-summaries/
        
           | htrp wrote:
           | ^^ co-founder of shortwave.
           | 
           | >Shortwave's most prominent action is done -- akin to
           | archiving on other email apps -- because it's the recommended
           | way to clean up your inbox. Items marked done are removed
           | from your inbox, but remain easily accessible via search and
           | the Done page.
           | 
           | Can you automatically recommend the e-mails that I need to
           | mark as done or do I need to do that manually?
        
       | breck wrote:
       | Email is so important to me and can be better, but I'm tired of
       | closed source tools. Have you given thought of how you could make
       | this open source but still monetize?
        
       | peon2345 wrote:
       | Is there something like this that does not require you to give
       | them all your data for free?
        
         | ghqst wrote:
         | Yes, I'm sure Google will eventually have the same thing, and
         | you've already given THEM all your data for free.
        
       | steponlego wrote:
       | Doesn't this just feed your info straight into some company's
       | database?
        
         | jwngr wrote:
         | We use OpenAI's GPT-3 API to generate summaries. We have
         | explicitly opted out of OpenAI's default behavior of using
         | their APIs to train their models:
         | https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-is...
        
           | steponlego wrote:
           | So, yes?
        
             | rockwotj wrote:
             | It's an opt-in feature, so it's only for the emails you
             | request to be summarized.
        
             | canadianfella wrote:
             | [dead]
        
       | fatfox wrote:
       | Any potential security issues with giving GPT-3 access to all
       | your emails?
        
         | sneak wrote:
         | Yes, OpenAI can log and read them forever (even if they don't
         | use them to train additional models). This is probably an NDA
         | violation.
        
         | jwngr wrote:
         | We use OpenAI's GPT-3 API to generate summaries. We have
         | explicitly opted out of OpenAI's default behavior of using
         | their APIs to train their models [1].
         | 
         | Our summarization feature is entirely opt-in. So if you're
         | concerned about sharing your emails with OpenAI, you can choose
         | not to use the feature. You can also read our Privacy Policy
         | [2] and Terms of Service [3] to see how your data is used.
         | 
         | [1] https://help.openai.com/en/articles/5722486-how-your-data-
         | is... [2] https://www.shortwave.com/policies/privacy-policy/
         | [3] https://www.shortwave.com/policies/terms-of-service/
        
           | frognumber wrote:
           | Have you considered working through Azure's APIs instead?
           | It's like OpenAI, but with more guarantees of privacy /
           | security.
        
       | awill wrote:
       | I tried it out, but instantly realized the 'free' version is go
       | restrictive it's useless. I get many startups want to make sure
       | the free version isn't too good, but here the free version is
       | unusable.
       | 
       | Also, $9/mo for a frontend for gmail is just way too much. $108/y
       | ??? If you're going to pay that much, surely you'd just get off
       | gmail entirely. Why pay that much but still give up all your
       | privacy...
        
         | jwngr wrote:
         | Outside of search and import history, our free version is 100%
         | feature compatible with the paid version. None of the core
         | functionality (including the new AI stuff) requires a paid
         | plan. On a paid plan, you can import and search your full
         | history. On the free plan, you can import and search your last
         | 90 days. See our pricing page for more details
         | (https://www.shortwave.com/pricing/).
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | I bet there are lots of people that "live" inside their email
         | client all day long. Saving them time and effort will pay off
         | quickly, $108/year is nothing even if it just saves you 30
         | minutes every day.
        
         | richardw wrote:
         | I think the measure of this would be "would this make me more
         | than $9 a month more efficient" and "is there any alternative
         | that is a better cost/benefit", i.e. a free tool that is mostly
         | as good. For you it might be useless, for someone who lives on
         | gmail and charges per hour, it's probably an instant win.
        
       | smusamashah wrote:
       | I dont know why Shortwave is pivoting to current AI craze. I have
       | been using it for a while and it's amazing. Only qualm I have
       | with it, and it's the reason I stopped using it for sometime,
       | that when you mark an email 'done' it does not translate to that
       | email marked as 'read' in Gmail.
       | 
       | Before I realized this I was under the impression that my emails
       | are being marked as read too.
       | 
       | Otherwise, shortwave strength is that it's keyboard driven. You
       | can read, delete, label emails all via keyboard.
        
         | jwngr wrote:
         | Despite adding some AI features, we are definitely still
         | focused on the core triage and workflow of getting through your
         | inbox. We've launched a bunch of other stuff already this year
         | (https://www.shortwave.com/changelog/) and have more non-AI
         | features coming.
         | 
         | As for marking stuff as read: this is a known issue that we are
         | planning to address. For now, it behaves like archive in Gmail,
         | which does not mark as read. How would you like it to work?
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | > Despite adding some AI features
           | 
           | I opened the website and the first thing I see is
           | "Intelligent email, powered by AI", with "by AI" highlighted
           | with a gradient. I scroll down and the first feature is
           | "Summarize with AI". I don't fault the other commenter for
           | thinking you've pivoted to the AI craze, that is the vibe
           | you're sending very loudly.
        
           | smusamashah wrote:
           | The homepage of site now advertising AI features on the top.
           | Which feels like that summarization is just the first thing
           | and there are more AI driven features yet to come. It feels
           | like its going to shift focus on AI as a top priority.
           | 
           | More AI driven features are good probably, but the whole
           | product being AI driven is questionable.
           | 
           | I don't appreciate the Gmail archive very much. I have a pile
           | of emails I want to get rid of (delete) which archiving does
           | not help with. It actually increases the size of the pile
           | when you archive unread emails. I would just like an option
           | to mark an email as read when I mark it done in shortwave.
        
       | jwngr wrote:
       | Hi HN - Shortwave co-founder here. We've built a full-featured
       | email client over the last couple of years, just in time for the
       | rise of LLMs. We've added quite a few features (and are working
       | on many more) that use LLMs to save you time.
       | 
       | I'm most excited about Smart Summaries -- they'll read and then
       | summarize (even from a different language) long newsletters &
       | those huge threads you just don't want to wade through.
       | 
       | We've got a long way to go, so please do leave us feedback if you
       | have it. Shortwave is much of the early Firebase team, and HN
       | really helped us building that product :) Thanks in advance!
        
         | skilled wrote:
         | So the best you could do in a few years is implement the OpenAI
         | API to summarise a bunch of text or did I read that wrong?
        
           | canadianfella wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | I think the client took a few years, and they've now quickly
           | added some AI related features.
        
         | light_hue_1 wrote:
         | This is a good idea executed terribly badly. There's no world
         | in which I would agree for my inbox to be sent to OpenAI.
         | 
         | Literally people's most private messages, and even privileged
         | conversations, are being shared with a 3rd party. One with no
         | track record, no audits, not much in the way of controls. Hard
         | pass.
         | 
         | There will be a breach of OpenAI one day. The only question is
         | if it's your emails that will be leaked.
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | This works only with Gmail, so the people using already
           | agreed to have someone rifle through their mails.
           | 
           | What is one more?
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | Why are you focusing on being AI driven now? Shortwave has been
         | great already. This seems more like an attempt to capture some
         | crowd via current AI hype. I don't know but it may also work in
         | reverse giving a sense of less privacy or something.
        
           | jwngr wrote:
           | I go into this a bit more in our blog post from today [1],
           | but we believe LLMs are going to transform how we interact
           | with email. Yes, you still need a solid inbox with labels and
           | contacts and push notifications and everything else that
           | email clients like Shortwave offer. And we will continue to
           | iterate on and nail that experience. But these new tools
           | allow us to push the boundaries of what can be done with
           | email, and we intend to do just that.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.shortwave.com/blog/ai-email-summaries/
        
         | felixg3 wrote:
         | Why are you calling it an email client? It is obviously not. It
         | is a proprietary front-end for Gmail, which is not even
         | remotely the same.
        
           | baxtr wrote:
           | 80% of all emails are gmail? So yeah technically you're right
           | but actually they are.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | libraryatnight wrote:
       | Summarizing must be the low hanging fruit on the GPT-3 api
       | because everybody and their mother wants to summarize everything
       | for me now. Who's going to write me an extension to aggregate and
       | summarize all my summaries?
        
         | stirfish wrote:
         | I used to use Nutshell, but it went out of business because its
         | name was too long.
         | 
         | https://acephalous.typepad.com/acephalous/2007/05/irtnog_by_...
        
         | precompute wrote:
         | I'll do it for 100k and the title "prompt artisan"
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | This is SO going to become a thing on LinkedIn.
        
       | felixg3 wrote:
       | It is a Gmail client, not an email client. The latter is an open
       | standard, which is obviously not supported. That should be
       | mentioned.
       | 
       | Going from 0 to 9 USD / month is steep. Apparently, everyone has
       | Silicon Valley salaries now, for some app.
       | 
       | EDIT: apparently, they changed the title. props for that. :)
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | 1. Don't use GMail - the US government and a bunch of commercial
       | corporations should not be able to read your email and/or mine it
       | for useful information to manipulate you with.
       | 
       | 2. With this kind of frontend, you're just adding more entities
       | which scrutinize your email and your behavior patterns. Oh, and
       | apparently this costs a bunch of money to really use.
       | 
       | 3. The appropriate frontend for email services (even GMail) is a
       | FOSS mail client.
       | 
       | Here's a list of many of them:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_email_clients
       | 
       | I use Thunderbird personally, which is ok-ish and somewhat
       | extensible.
        
         | warkdarrior wrote:
         | Do any of the FOSS mail clients offer summarization of emails?
         | If not, then asking people to use a less capable email client
         | is not a winning proposition.
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-27 23:01 UTC)