[HN Gopher] Comment on the UK Gov Proposal to Ban "Bespoke" "Sop...
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       Comment on the UK Gov Proposal to Ban "Bespoke" "Sophisticated"
       Encrypted Phones
        
       Author : dane-pgp
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2023-02-27 20:47 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cyberlaw.stanford.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cyberlaw.stanford.edu)
        
       | unxdfa wrote:
       | Oh no looks like I will have to commit my crimes on paper, with
       | cash and in person.
       | 
       | More seriously though I'm accepting this as the status quo and
       | keep things I need to keep secret airgapped from the public
       | internet and devices.
        
       | dane-pgp wrote:
       | There are some good arguments in here, but I think it misses the
       | broader picture.
       | 
       | Clearly someone at GCHQ has told the UK government that if they
       | want to ban secure apps like Signal, they first need to get the
       | apps taken out of the app stores, then they need to mandate that
       | phone OSes don't allow side-loading, then finally they need to
       | ban "bespoke" phones, i.e. ones that allow general purpose
       | computing.
       | 
       | Not only Stallman[0], but Doctorow[1] was right too.
       | 
       | After implementing this, they'll do the same for desktops, using
       | something like Apple's Gatekeeper software[2]. Linux distros will
       | gain support for this using "Secure Boot" and something like
       | systemd-censord, which Microsoft might get Lennart to implement
       | for them.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html
       | 
       | [1] https://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html
       | 
       | [2] https://support.apple.com/en-
       | gb/guide/security/sec5599b66df/...
        
         | flangola7 wrote:
         | Wonder how they expect this to mesh with the new EU law
         | mandating, among other things, open app ecosystems.
         | 
         | Will Britons just import their phones from France?
        
           | CommanderData wrote:
           | Britons will willfully comply.
           | 
           | We're just too lazy and unbothered.
        
           | BasedInfra wrote:
           | UK is not a part of the EU so it wouldn't have to mesh at all
           | unless I'm missing something?
        
             | skissane wrote:
             | Some EU laws apply in Northern Ireland - I don't know about
             | laws in this area specifically. If a phone is legal in the
             | EU, the UK may be required under the Northern Ireland
             | Protocol (and the new "Windsor Framework") to allow it in
             | Northern Ireland. If they have to make a phone legal in
             | Northern Ireland, it will be very hard to ban it in
             | England, Scotland and Wales
        
             | giobox wrote:
             | Sure, but its not that hard or expensive to hop a
             | ferry/train/plane trip to France or Ireland and buy an
             | unlocked phone, as one example. Any laws the UK passes have
             | to account for the geographical realities of its location.
             | 
             | Just because the UK is no longer in the EU doesn't mean its
             | not affected by many of its decisions, given the enormous
             | volume of trade that will continue to occur between them.
        
               | InCityDreams wrote:
               | >Any laws the UK passes have to account for the
               | geographical realities of its location.
               | 
               | The sun never sets.....
        
               | giobox wrote:
               | And the Channel between England and France is a mere 20
               | miles at its narrowest point, Ireland is 12 (the UK's
               | nearest EU neighbors). You can argue it down to zero
               | miles for Ireland if you start your journey in Northern
               | Ireland.
               | 
               | The sun absolutely does set on what little is left of the
               | "British Empire" in the 21st century.
        
               | lozenge wrote:
               | What happens when you get stopped and searched in the UK
               | (probable cause isn't a factor here) and they find a
               | "special encryption" phone?
        
         | hanselot wrote:
         | They will never stop coming for open source and privacy.
         | 
         | The only option is to write malware that replaces all
         | installations of proprietary OSes with an open source os.
         | 
         | This should not be impossible given the number of 0days these
         | typically ship with.
         | 
         | A self replicating reinforcement learning AI that distributes
         | peer to peer over any network available and reproduces with
         | other copies of itself to improve itself.
        
           | moremetadata wrote:
           | The British State treats people born on this island as
           | subjects, and will go to great lengths to have a full
           | spectrum advantage over other countries, including infecting
           | primary school age kids with things like Anthrax (me for
           | one), and will do other things like intercepting telecoms
           | data as detailed here.
           | 
           | https://cryptome.org/eyeball/capen/capen-eyeball.htm
           | 
           | The state will attempt and do kill innocent British civilians
           | in this country and its all covered up. This model of
           | governance is employed in other country's but most people
           | want to believe the state is there as a purpose for good.
        
       | 6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote:
       | From the Consultation Paper
       | 
       | "Sophisticated encrypted communication devices have been used
       | extensively by criminals to facilitate organised crime. We're
       | targeting the modified and bespoke devices that enable access to
       | platforms, similar to Encro Chat, where the software/ hardware
       | has been developed to anonymise its users and their
       | communications and its user base is assessed to be almost
       | certainly criminal. Under Option 1 where articles will be
       | specified, we will be targeting those that supply, modify, and
       | possess these bespoke devices; the provisions will not apply to
       | commercially available mobile phones nor the encrypted messaging
       | apps available on them. The proposed offences will seek to tackle
       | those supplying and exploiting these devices in order to carry
       | out serious crimes and will seek to reduce the supply of these
       | devices to serious criminals." [1]
       | 
       | 1. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/strengthening-
       | th...
        
       | ajb wrote:
       | Everyone with a precursor phone[1] should probably reply to this
       | consultation. And then watch the law to see if you will
       | automatically become a criminal.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/precursor
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-27 23:02 UTC)