[HN Gopher] What is REM sleep and why is it important?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       What is REM sleep and why is it important?
        
       Author : pseudolus
       Score  : 123 points
       Date   : 2023-02-26 12:42 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | pedalpete wrote:
       | From everything I understand (and I work in the sleep space),
       | this statement is wrong "In general, you need less sleep as you
       | age".
       | 
       | You get less sleep as you age, and that lack of sleep has been
       | linked to the decline in health.
       | 
       | That doesn't mean you "need" less.
       | 
       | We're working on improving the neurological function of the brain
       | during sleep at https://soundmind.co and very keen to see if we
       | can have a long-term impact on health and longevity by increasing
       | the depth of deep sleep.
        
       | Synaesthesia wrote:
       | I get very little REM sleep because I smoke weed every day. I
       | think it's not good for me, so I'll be interested to read this
       | article.
        
         | imdan wrote:
         | I've found that, like alcohol and caffeine, limiting your weed
         | intake directly before sleep seems to minimize the negative
         | effects it has on the quality of sleep.
         | 
         | Based on fitbit data and morning grogginess, over two to four
         | hours before sleep seems to be a good window, but it definitely
         | depends on the strength, quantity, and how you're consuming it.
         | 
         | It wouldn't surprise me though if most of the negative
         | associations with weed usage (laziness, lack of motivation,
         | depression, etc.) are really just the results of a lack of REM
         | sleep.
         | 
         | It seems to be a pretty important process as far as I can tell.
        
         | weedtoker2324 wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | bob_scratchit wrote:
         | I know he's become YouTube hype bros favorite source for click
         | bait videos, but the Neuroscientist Andrew Huberman has some
         | great podcast episodes about sleep and also how weed/alcohol
         | greatly impact it. I found it really insightful in terms of how
         | even moderate use of alcohol/weed can greatly impact sleep
         | quality.
        
         | rpastuszak wrote:
         | Your cognitive skills and memory are likely improve if you take
         | a break. I think this is related to the impact of THC/CBD/CBN
         | on different sleep stages and their function wrt memory and
         | processing information.
         | 
         | It's likely that you'll experience a period of very vivid
         | dreams and increased energy. It's good to put that energy into
         | something that will get you tired (and sleepy!), e.g. sport.
        
           | chitowneats wrote:
           | The hardest part about quitting weed for me was terrifying,
           | vivid nightmares. Ironic considering how these
           | "hallucinations" are an order of magnitude more powerful than
           | any you would get from the drug itself. I relapsed several
           | times because of this. But if you stick to quitting for long
           | enough, that symptom will subside.
        
             | seszett wrote:
             | As far as I understand, these dreams are because your body
             | is catching up for all the missing REM sleep your didn't
             | have before.
             | 
             | So you have a lot more REM sleep for a while because you
             | need it, and REM sleep normally goes along with vivid
             | dreams.
        
         | Rewrap3643 wrote:
         | I don't think we know enough about it, other than to say,
         | "sleep is important and disrupting it should be minimized."
         | 
         | There's a medication called trazodone which is used off-label
         | for people with issues falling or staying asleep. It increases
         | the total percentage of time spent in slow-wave sleep (stage
         | 3).
         | 
         | Even though this comes at the expense of REM, in elderly people
         | with cognitive or neurodegenerative issues, this appears to
         | confer a protective benefit (the rate of deterioration is
         | slowed comparatively).
         | 
         | That said, it would probably be ideal if they slept well
         | without medication and altered sleep architectures.
        
         | ravishi wrote:
         | I often wonder if that's the key to why I feel different
         | whenever I'm able to quit weed for a while. It doesn't help to
         | just limit usage and dosage, it still affects my REM sleep.
        
         | mason55 wrote:
         | I replaced drinking with weed for awhile but I noticed I wasn't
         | feeling all that much better. Then I started tracking my sleep
         | with an Apple Watch and found that with both alcohol and pot,
         | the amount of deep sleep I get is super impacted.
         | 
         | I'm sure it's not 100% scientific but it correlates well enough
         | that I'm convinced. Even a couple drinks will knock me down to
         | 15-45 minutes of deep sleep in a night, vs. 90+ that I get
         | during the week.
         | 
         | Once I stopped both alcohol & pot I found that I felt much
         | better, the way I expected to feel after I quit drinking.
        
         | kkielhofner wrote:
         | This is the case for almost every drug/agent that has "sleep
         | aid" properties.
         | 
         | From Benadryl to Ambien and alcohol, marijuana, etc they help
         | induce sleep (fall asleep faster) but generally the actual
         | quality of sleep is worse.
         | 
         | I always take pause when I hear people talk about the "benefit"
         | of having a drink or using marijuana (typically "Indica
         | strain") before bed to help sleep.
         | 
         | We're all unique but generally I wonder how they would view
         | their restfulness compared to ideal sleep strategies like diet,
         | exercise, screen usage/stimulation, routine, etc.
        
           | VirusNewbie wrote:
           | Interesting enough, I always wondered why it _seemed_ like I
           | slept better with alcohol, and getting a sleep tracker helped
           | me understand: alcohol lowers REM sleep, but increases deep
           | sleep. In my case, without alcohol I'm abundant in REM but
           | lacking in deep sleep.
           | 
           | So in my case, one drink improves my sleep quality! However I
           | don't think alcohol is healthy, so I don't regularly imbibe,
           | but it would be nice to find something healthy that would
           | make that trade off for me.
        
           | ryukafalz wrote:
           | Melatonin presumably being the exception, right? Since it's
           | the same sleep hormone you're producing naturally.
           | 
           | (In reasonable doses anyway.)
        
             | kkielhofner wrote:
             | I'm certainly not a doctor but I've heard varying reports
             | on melatonin. While produced naturally it's like anything
             | else - we have receptors for everything from marijuana to
             | heroin because our bodies produce similar molecules
             | (endorphins for pain suppression during fight or flight,
             | dopamine for reward systems, etc). So saying we "produce
             | melatonin" doesn't imply safety.
             | 
             | From what little I've read and understand it does seem to
             | be very individualized, dosage dependent, etc.
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | How do you know you get little REM sleep?
        
           | dangwhy wrote:
           | no vivid dreams on weed. Actually, no dreams at all.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | haswell wrote:
           | Many fitness trackers will now show you this information, in
           | addition to the lack of dreams as others have mentioned.
        
             | ravenstine wrote:
             | My question was specifically referring to how the OP knows
             | their lack of dreams rather than generally speaking, but
             | thanks for sharing info that might help someone reading
             | this.
        
               | haswell wrote:
               | I see. In that case, it's also worth mentioning that the
               | impact of THC on REM sleep has been the subject of
               | multiple studies, with strong evidence showing a link
               | between THC usage and reduced or missing REM stages.
               | 
               | So if someone has evidence that they are missing REM
               | sleep (i.e. a tracker or a noted lack of dreams) and are
               | also consuming THC, there are good reasons to suspect THC
               | is the culprit over other possible causes.
        
         | PopAlongKid wrote:
         | The article makes no mention of the effects of THC consumption
         | on sleep. Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every
         | day and still sleep well at night.
         | 
         | If you quit weed, how will you measure whether there is any
         | increase in REM sleep?
        
           | ChatGTP wrote:
           | Anecdotally, I love traveling to places where weed is legal
           | so I can get high and almost immediately cure jetlag.
           | 
           | I also have great vivid dreams when high so, yeah I'd also be
           | interested to see some more information too.
        
             | ecommerceguy wrote:
             | Wow, how was that sn not taken as of today?
        
             | tzs wrote:
             | I'm curious now...how does it work legally if you really
             | baked in a jurisdiction where weed is legal, immediately
             | fly to a place where weed is not legal, and are still baked
             | when you arrive?
        
               | bawolff wrote:
               | I think in most places it is possesion of the substance
               | that is illegal, not the state of being intixicated.
               | 
               | Or if you're sufficiently intoxicated to cause a problem,
               | it doesn't matter if weed is legal, you are still in
               | trouble.
        
               | chitowneats wrote:
               | WARNING: I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS
               | 
               | Correct. In the U.S., you can report to a police officer
               | that, "yeah man, I'm high out my mind. Stoned as fuck,
               | bro." As long as you aren't driving or causing a
               | disturbance, they legally can't do anything other than
               | search your person for the substance.
               | 
               | WARNING: I DO NOT RECOMMEND DOING THIS
        
           | Synaesthesia wrote:
           | I sleep well at night. My watch tells me I don't get much REM
           | sleep and I also don't dream a lot.
        
           | ravishi wrote:
           | I measure it with a Mi Band. It might not be the most precise
           | measuring method, but I feel like I'm able to correlate
           | "better sleep" shown in the app with "better mood" or
           | "feeling better" the day after. And quitting weed does
           | improve both of those measures.
           | 
           | Of course I was not able to notice this when I was younger.
           | Only now at 32 and a family these measurements are starting
           | to actually be noticeable.
        
             | tzs wrote:
             | > I feel like I'm able to correlate "better sleep" shown in
             | the app with "better mood" or "feeling better" the day
             | after
             | 
             | If you look at the app and see that it says "better sleep"
             | before starting the day and then notice that you had a good
             | mood or felt better after that could be a placebo effect.
             | 
             | You could check that by not looking at the app until after
             | your day is done and you have noted if you had a good mood
             | or felt better. If the app and your day's mood still
             | correlate then it probably is something real.
             | 
             | On the other hand checking if it is real risks making it no
             | longer work, and a good mood is a good mood even if it was
             | caused by a placebo. I'm not sure I'd check.
        
               | ravishi wrote:
               | Sure. I mostly avoid looking at it daily. Instead I look
               | once a week and correlate with journaling entries.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | > _On the other hand checking if it is real risks making
               | it no longer work,_
               | 
               | The placebo effect doesn't go away if you know it's a
               | placebo: if it's worked in the past because you thought
               | it did, it will continue to work if you think it will.
               | https://xkcd.com/1526/
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | If you doubt its effectiveness because you know it's
               | placebo, it might not work anymore.
               | 
               | Especially if you're wondering all day if you're in a
               | good mood or not.
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | So... don't do that? If it worked before, but it doesn't
               | work in theory, it works.
               | 
               | It might not even be placebo! Perhaps the combination of
               | (well rested) + (optimistic) means you have a good day,
               | and the experiment changes those conditions enough that
               | you get different results. Heck, you might end up having
               | better days more often. You never know if you don't try.
        
           | filoleg wrote:
           | Not disagreeing with you overall, but I just wanted to add a
           | bit of nuance to things you've mentioned.
           | 
           | > Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every day and
           | still sleep well at night.
           | 
           | First, as far as I know, smoking weed would only affect your
           | sleep if you consumed it a couple of hours or so before sleep
           | (exact numbers vary per person, but you get the idea). If
           | someone consumed some weed during lunch, I would expect theit
           | nighttime sleep to be pretty much unaffected.
           | 
           | Second, what do you mean by "sleep well"? They might fall
           | asleep faster and stay asleep throughout the night. But how
           | good was their sleep quality in reality? We are talking in
           | terms of measuring REM cycle length and such.
           | 
           | From anecdotal experience, I also thought that my sleep
           | shortly after consuming was "good", as I would fall asleep
           | easier. However, I can confirm that it wasn't high quality
           | sleep at all for me, my REM cycle was very short, and I
           | definitely noticed extra groginess after waking up (along
           | with the rest of the things mentioned in sibling comments,
           | like lack of dreams and such). Doing some more A/B testing on
           | my sleep in regards to consumption of weed pretty much made
           | it clear that it makes my sleep quality worse, but makes it
           | easier to fall asleep.
        
           | canes123456 wrote:
           | Pretty much every sedative, ambian, alcohol, etc, will
           | decrease REM sleep and increase deep sleep. I have no idea
           | about THC but assume the effect is similar.
        
           | neom wrote:
           | I smoked weed every day for 10 years and basically forgot
           | what dreaming was, people would tell me about their dreams
           | and I thought they're nuts... I presumed I must be dreaming
           | but I just didn't remember it, but the idea people could
           | remember these extreme vivid crazy dreams they could control
           | seemed totally foreign to me. I moved to a country where weed
           | was very illegal and stopped smoking it, after about 5 months
           | of no weed I started to have the most insane, crazy cool,
           | very very vivid dreams. Then I moved back to Canada for a
           | year and started to toke, again, I almost immediately stopped
           | dreaming. When I left Canada again, and stopped weed again,
           | dreams came back again. My personal very unscientific
           | hypothesis is that I process a lot more of that
           | emotional/thoughtful stuff when I'm awake and stoned, but
           | honestly, who knows.. I find it somewhat concerning to be
           | honest, the difference in my dreaming on and off weed is
           | markedly very stark.
        
             | ProllyInfamous wrote:
             | "Dreaming helps you to forget." -- Francis Crick
             | 
             | Good luck on your continued journey.
             | 
             | G.Mate's "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts" was very helpful
             | for me, in moving past some childhood trauma.
        
             | enraged_camel wrote:
             | Can confirm. I visited another galaxy last night. It was
             | wild.
        
             | ABeeSea wrote:
             | I almost wanted to start smoking again after I quit just to
             | stop dreaming. Quit 3 years ago and the dreams are just so
             | vivid and intense versus the dreamless sleep when I was
             | smoking.
        
               | neom wrote:
               | I can totally relate, I actually really don't enjoy the
               | intense dreaming either. I find it overwhelming and
               | uncomfortable and much prefer my dreamless sleeping. That
               | being said, I also accept there is evidence that dreaming
               | is important for your health. I don't particularly enjoy
               | having to go pee throughout the day either, but if I
               | stopped doing it, I'd be pretty concerned for my health.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | > _Anecdotally, there are people who smoke weed every day and
           | still sleep well at night._
           | 
           | Sleep well, or "sleep enough hours"/"don't have insomnia"?
           | 
           | Because sleeping well and REM sleep can't be deduced from the
           | latter, it needs to be measured.
           | 
           | Not even self-reporting is enough - because chronic bad sleep
           | becomes the baseline, so people used it to just consider
           | their mental clarity/energy levels when they wake up normal
           | (like a person with shortsightedness, who doesn't know he has
           | it -- they're then suprised when they finally get glasses and
           | see that, no, it wasn't normal actually).
        
             | dustymcp wrote:
             | Anecdotally i learned stopping a few hours before sleep
             | gives a way better sleep that night, but many smoke weed to
             | fall asleep which is sort of counter productive..
        
           | ProAm wrote:
           | There have been studies on it. Whether its harmful or not I
           | do not know. [1]
           | 
           | "To address this question, Feinberg, et al. (1975) compared
           | the sleep patterns of experienced marijuana users on
           | tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and a placebo. Feinberg, et al.
           | (1975) reported reduced eye movement activity and less REM
           | sleep in the THC condition. They also reported a REM rebound
           | effect, which is more REM activity, on withdrawal from THC.
           | So, there exists some scientific evidence that marijuana
           | interferes with REM sleep." [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-teenage-
           | mind/200...
        
             | swatcoder wrote:
             | "How do you measure how it effects you?"
             | 
             | "Somebody dosed four people for a couple weeks, 50 years
             | ago, and wrote about it.
             | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/164314/ "
             | 
             | Studies don't tell you facts about your own experience,
             | especially weak studies. Studies only tell you about
             | statistical patterns in whatever population they represent.
             | Here, the study is so poor that it doesn't actually say
             | anything reliable at all. Check your references, folks!
        
               | ProAm wrote:
               | > Studies don't tell you facts about your own experience
               | 
               | I'm not even sure how to respond to this. Personal
               | experience not based in science is something that should
               | never be regarded as factual or can be broadly attributed
               | to others biological effects. This is just one study.
               | There have been others, but enjoy your experience.
        
               | swatcoder wrote:
               | If you think that promoting scientific literacy is anti-
               | science, we're in trouble!
        
           | wafflemaker wrote:
           | How I tell of increase in REM sleep (x):
           | 
           | 1. Remembering some dreams in the morning. Especially that I
           | dreamt right before waking up.
           | 
           | 2. Calmer mood, less jittery, harder to irritate.
           | 
           | 3. Easier to maintain focus on things that are not fun,
           | easier to resist distractions.
           | 
           | How I tell the level of cannabinoids/alcohol in the body fell
           | enough to allow good sleep with both deep and REM phases: -
           | The first night you sleep with a proper REM phase you get a
           | REM sleep rebound. It's characterized by lot of vivid,
           | intense, often rare dreams. Easy to notice after a period in
           | which you pretty much don't remember any dreams. Happens
           | because there is much pressure in the body to catch up for
           | lost REM sleep, but rebounds are not enough to catch up.
           | 
           | The sad and deeply diabolical thing about cannabis is that
           | it's half time in body is quite long (though adapted bodies
           | metabolize it faster), so smoking/consuming chronicly
           | (defined in Huberman Lab as 2 times per week or more often)
           | is enough to pretty much completely rob you of REM sleep. You
           | can't remember any dreams and even worse, you loose your
           | everyday free emotional therapist that is REM sleep. If you
           | add some other negative experiences or just a difficult
           | period in life, you're in for depression or at least
           | sad/tired/boring days. And what you might escape into in
           | these days? Often more weed.
           | 
           | x: anecdotal, most likely influenced by huberman lab's
           | episodes on marijuana and on sleep. They describe what roles
           | both deep sleep and REM sleep perform. Episode on weed is a
           | must - listen for people consuming cannabis in any form, even
           | sporadically, because lot of things around cannabis are
           | counter intuitive (f.ex. that it doesn't help with sleep). If
           | you thing problems with sleep affect you or that your sleep
           | quality suffers because of drug (including alcohol) use,
           | consider listening to these Huberman Lab episodes or talking
           | to a specialist if that's available to you.
        
             | dopidopHN wrote:
             | Hey thanks for the plug, I listened to a few of his show
             | and liked it a few years ago.
             | 
             | I go with 2 months cycle with THC. On and then off. Toward
             | the end of the ON period I can't stand weed anymore and I'm
             | often grumpy as fuck.
             | 
             | Then I rediscover it 2 month later and it's great. Yah. Not
             | great.
             | 
             | Going to listen to that now.
        
       | patcon wrote:
       | https://archive.is/8ziZM
        
         | neonate wrote:
         | http://web.archive.org/web/20230226150558/https://www.nytime...
        
       | Tycho wrote:
       | My theory is that it's an evolutionary adaptation to preserve
       | awareness of threats when a group/camp of humans are sleeping at
       | night. If some members of the group are in REM sleep at any given
       | moment, then they will have constant awareness (outside stimuli
       | will manifest in their dreams, or simply wake them up).
        
       | exfatloss wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | Sharlin wrote:
         | Because dreaming is a fascinating phenomenon. Just laying
         | there, unconscious, isn't very interesting in comparison.
        
       | deegles wrote:
       | There was a device called the Dreem headband that used EEG and
       | bone conduction earphones to play special tones at specific
       | points of your sleep cycle, the goal being to extend the REM
       | segments. Unfortunately that function was software limited to the
       | EU market for whatever reason and then they stopped selling it to
       | the public. I almost got one before they did but I couldn't
       | guarantee that I would have that functionality. Hopefully it goes
       | on sale again soon.
       | 
       | https://dreem.com/
        
         | pedalpete wrote:
         | We're picking up where they left off at https://soundmind.co
        
         | tpetr wrote:
         | I had one of these! Very cool piece of technology, but a slew
         | of papercuts (buggy app, connectivity issues, poorly designed
         | charger) made me give up on it after a couple weeks.
        
       | ptsneves wrote:
       | Nobody speaks about the effect of little kids on young parents.
       | It is nightmarish and there is nothing to do about it. I wonder
       | how much damage we get to our minds due to sleep deprivation and
       | shocks. Yes shocks. I once laughed at a report of a mercenary
       | saying he was woken up several times a night with ABBA as a form
       | of torture. I then internally cried thinking of the amount of
       | times I woke up just to hear screams, and put them near my hear
       | in the middle of the night. Or finally falling asleep only for
       | screaming to start, and the rush to stop one child from waking
       | the other, and leading to double screaming. On rough weeks I feel
       | I get ptsd or fear of night time.
       | 
       | I honestly do not understand why evolution gave us this harsh
       | treatment.
        
         | t0mislav wrote:
         | So true. Now that they are 3yr and 6yr old. I'm still not
         | sleeping nowhere as before, but it's getting a little bit
         | better.
        
           | pedalpete wrote:
           | We work in the sleep efficiency space, so I've thought about
           | this quite a bit.
           | 
           | My thinking, knowing the research around the area, but not
           | having researched this specific case.
           | 
           | 1) we are having children later in life. Evolution designed
           | child rearing age to be 16-25. We have pushed that later and
           | later as we've matured as a species, and in Australia (and
           | Canada) from my experience we are now regularly in the 30+
           | for first children. I know of many mothers who's first child
           | was born when they were 40 or later.
           | 
           | 2) Sleep does not return to normal levels until the youngest
           | child on average reaches 6 years old.
           | 
           | 3) Our sleep naturally degrades as we age. Particularly in
           | mid-30s. So if you have a child at 33, and you return to
           | "normal sleep" at 39, you are expecting to return to your
           | restful self, but your sleep has declined during that time.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | sonofhans wrote:
         | FWIW -- and not to criticize you, I'm a parent and know what
         | you're going through -- evolution didn't do this to us, we did.
         | If we look at our closest relatives, the other primates,
         | infants all sleep snuggled with their mothers. As they get
         | older, they snuggle together or with other relatives. It's very
         | rare for any of them to sleep alone.
         | 
         | Imagine a baby chimp or gorilla waking up alone in the forest
         | after having fallen asleep snuggled with its mother. Of course
         | it would be terrified, of course it would cry for help.
         | 
         | Many modern cultures choose to make infants sleep alone. That
         | doesn't do away with the infant's hard-wired responses, long-
         | set in its genome.
        
         | kentrado wrote:
         | >I honestly do not understand why evolution gave us this harsh
         | treatment.
         | 
         | I think in the past we didn't use to sleep 8 hours straight.
         | Perhaps it was fine, we just changed and forgot to send babies
         | the memo.
        
         | eastbound wrote:
         | I'm 35 and I keep waking up throughout the night. I joke that
         | we're designed to be awake at the age we get kids.
        
           | whatevertrevor wrote:
           | I think having young kids in the mid-30s is a modern trend
           | though, humans generally had their first kids in the mid 20s
           | or even younger which would be an easier age to live with
           | less sleep (at least from my personal experience).
        
         | pedalpete wrote:
         | This is what we're working on at https://soundmind.co -
         | improving the efficiency of deep sleep by monitoring your brain
         | for slow wave sleep, and using auditory stimulation to increase
         | delta power.
         | 
         | We're about to begin testing with our first users in the next
         | few weeks.
         | 
         | To answer your question about evolution, I speculate...
         | 
         | 1) the evolutionary element was likely only adapted to impact
         | mothers, and still impacts mothers more than fathers. But
         | fathers (I believe) are now more involved.
         | 
         | 2) for mothers, less sleep may be linked to less memories of
         | the pain of early child rearing, which may make them more
         | likely to have more children.
         | 
         | Lastly, new mothers had a (if I recall correctly) 15% chance of
         | dying during childbirth or shortly thereafter. From an
         | evolutionary standpoint, the mother had mostly done their job,
         | as long as a village was left to raise the young.
         | 
         | The priority for evolution was to get the child through the
         | first year or so with the mother intact. Beyond that, mother
         | nature didn't prioritize the mothers health over their
         | offspring.
        
         | strikelaserclaw wrote:
         | i don't think its evolution, its the fact that both the parents
         | work and they need to balance the demands of parenthood with
         | the demands of work (among other things). Not to mention how
         | uptight and anxious some parents are these days about random
         | things related to their child (doing tons of research for
         | everything).
        
         | Aaargh20318 wrote:
         | > It is nightmarish and there is nothing to do about it.
         | 
         | Of course something can be done to prevent this. There are
         | several highly effective forms of contraception available
         | nowadays.
        
           | eastbound wrote:
           | Not that contraception is allowed until 3 years after birth,
           | but let's say it's much less criminalized than a stranger
           | doing the same crime (pardon my euphemism, but since it's
           | depenalized, I suppose humans should he consistent and let me
           | talk lightly about it). Humans are weird, when you think
           | about it this way.
        
       | AtlasBarfed wrote:
       | Reminder: exercise is fantastic for good sleep
        
         | zadler wrote:
         | Yep. My sleep sucks without exercise.
        
         | aaronrobinson wrote:
         | Yeah I'm not sold on this. I exercise a lot - for ultra
         | distance races - and I'm convinced that my body is sacrificing
         | REM for deep sleep in order to repair my body. I find that I
         | can only train or do intense cerebral work, never both during
         | the same period. I think if you train up to a certain point of
         | repair this may hold.
        
       | ZoomZoomZoom wrote:
       | > Then, after your last REM cycle, you wake up rested and alert.
       | 
       | Yeah, right. As if the widely sympathized image of the morning
       | zombie had no basis in reality.
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | It has. It describes the majority of people NOT sleeping well,
         | and not getting good or indisrupted REM sleep.
         | 
         | So basically the "morning zombie" case makes the point you
         | think it refutes!
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | > _Ideally,_ you move through the four stages in 90- to
         | 110-minute cycles that repeat four to six times in a typical
         | night. Then, after your last REM cycle, you wake up rested and
         | alert
        
         | reducesuffering wrote:
         | Where's the contradiction if the morning zombie image is
         | because of waking up mid REM cycle?
        
           | PeterisP wrote:
           | Not waking up mid REM cycle, but being woken up mid REM
           | cycle..
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | Anyone taking reishi to improve sleep?
        
       | mcoliver wrote:
       | Currently reading a book on this topic. Can be repetitive at
       | times but has a lot of really good insight. Had no idea your REM
       | as a percentage of sleep is highest in the last few weeks before
       | you are born.
       | 
       | Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466963-why-we-sleep
        
         | deafpolygon wrote:
         | Matthew Walker makes some false claims.
         | 
         | https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/
        
           | pedalpete wrote:
           | He's been very public about correcting for the errors he
           | made, and as a good scientist, he now clearly states "the
           | current body of knowledge actually says..."
           | 
           | There is no reason to discredit his claims as "false", unless
           | you believe he made the false claim intentionally - which I
           | don't believe he did.
           | 
           | He took complicated research and tried to simplify it and
           | make it digestible to a general audience, and was successful
           | at that.
           | 
           | I had a similar reaction when I first read the book, that
           | some of his conclusions didn't make sense, but I've since
           | backed off as I hear him speak, and believe he is one of the
           | better researchers in the sleep space.
           | 
           | Of note, I work in the sleep space, and there is a TON of
           | crap "science" out there, so I like to give support to those
           | I believe are doing good work.
        
         | digianarchist wrote:
         | Free on Audible with a subscription.
        
         | moremetadata wrote:
         | >Had no idea your REM as a percentage of sleep is highest in
         | the last few weeks before you are born.
         | 
         | It would seem the Dimethyltryptamine is the last thing to be
         | "topped up" in the brain then if what you say is true.
        
       | leo8 wrote:
       | That's behind a paywall, so no, thanks.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | Here you go: https://archive.md/8ziZM
         | 
         | If you already know about sleep architecture this article wont
         | tell you anything new. But as an intro it's good.
        
           | leo8 wrote:
           | Thank you :)
        
       | judiisis wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
         | Lookup the research of Matt Williams, Gina Poe, Rajkumar
         | Dasgupta, Rebecca Robbins, Indira Gurubhagavatula, and many
         | many others. The article is not directed at an audience who
         | wants to read the scientific evidence to support the claims -
         | just the claims themselves.
         | 
         | There's been a ton of research in sleep the last 10 years and
         | it's easy to find the studies and results.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-02-26 23:01 UTC)