[HN Gopher] Their Retirement Plan Did Not Include Being Forced t...
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       Their Retirement Plan Did Not Include Being Forced to Sell Their
       Condo
        
       Author : mikhael
       Score  : 23 points
       Date   : 2023-02-25 18:55 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | barbazoo wrote:
       | > Despite the inkling that the investor might want him out, Mr.
       | Fellman, 57, was confident that things would be fine, since he
       | legally owned the property, and the condo declaration required
       | that 100 percent of owners would need to be on board for the
       | condominium to be terminated.
       | 
       | > But the Scully Company didn't stop there. Since it owned all
       | the other units, it was able to take over majority control of the
       | condo board, and it voted to lower the threshold of owners
       | required to terminate down to 80 percent. Then, in February 2021,
       | the Scully Company voted to terminate the condominium, which
       | meant the Fellmans would be legally obligated to sell their unit
       | to the company.
       | 
       | That must be so stressful to deal with. Is that legal to lower
       | the threshold like that?
        
         | Kon-Peki wrote:
         | If the state condo laws say it is, then yes. This is in
         | Florida, not exactly known for such a great body of condo law.
         | But even in places like New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, etc -
         | with a long, long history of condominiums, this is going to be
         | allowed.
         | 
         | All the condo units but one were owned by the company. That's a
         | huge red flag, to the point that you'd never be able to get a
         | federally-insured loan to buy in this building. Generally
         | anything less than 50% owner-occupied can't be financed - you'd
         | have to pay cash, your real estate attorney will tell you to
         | run away, etc.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | swalling wrote:
       | Condos are yet another example of how being poor in America is
       | expensive.
       | 
       | While condos are attractive for people who can't afford regular
       | homes, mortgages are harder to get for them. Even if you have a
       | perfect credit score and 20% down, there is a whole category of
       | condo called "nonwarrantable", which makes them ineligible with
       | any lender who sells direct to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. One of
       | the laundry list of stipulations is that no single person or
       | entity owns more than 10% of all condo units in the building or
       | development.
       | 
       | Condo buyers are living with risks like the article describes,
       | and they're paying more for it to the bank for the privilege.
       | It's a cruel joke that the people who can't afford single family
       | home mortgages are given fewer protections and subject to a
       | litany of HOA payments, special assessments, fees, and fines that
       | can result in the condo being foreclosed on even if you own it
       | free and clear.
       | 
       | There is a great novel "Condominium" by John D. MacDonald that
       | lays bare the skeezy nature of condo developments. It's from
       | 1977, and here we are 40-50 years later, still letting people get
       | conned and maybe even die
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse)
       | thanks to the numerous messed up incentives in condo development.
        
       | GauntletWizard wrote:
       | I'm sympathetic to their plight, and wish them to get a good
       | payout, but this is the basic contract of a Condo - You don't own
       | the building, you own a slice of it, and if everyone else wants
       | out you're gonna have to agree. They never owned their home. They
       | owned a share in a compact that owned their home.
       | 
       | Where to draw the line between the rights of the majority to
       | implement rules and the rights of the minority to refuse them is
       | one of the central problems of civics, and there's no one right
       | answer.
        
         | pram wrote:
         | Sometimes it's even worse than that. I had a condo and then I
         | discovered all the units were on land that was just a 99 year
         | leasehold. The whole thing had an expiry date no matter what
         | lol
        
           | grugagag wrote:
           | I think it should be illegal to not disclose that info when
           | you buy. But I guess it worked out for you when you passed
           | the buck and sold it to somebody else...
        
         | kwere wrote:
         | In Europe you own a property inside a building and the condo is
         | represented only by its own hoa that manages common spaces and
         | handle simpler stuffs, nobody can force on you something more
         | serious than cutting noises at 10 pm
        
         | AtlasBarfed wrote:
         | The thing is, efficient use of population and better housing
         | supply relies on one thing: building vertically, and the
         | "condo" building is a core entity for doing so.
         | 
         | Hammering out good and fair law to underpin this is important
         | for many environmental and sustainable reasons.
         | 
         | The bylaws may technically allow this, but should it legally
         | stand given basic rights?
         | 
         | The key thing here is to draaaaaggggg this out. Their desired
         | state: stay in the condo. If they can drag it out a decade or
         | so, it'll cost the investment people money as well. Time is on
         | their side, if they can get it.
        
         | zajio1am wrote:
         | Here, owning the condo flat means being first-class property
         | owner, registered in public real estate cadastre, like any
         | other real estate, while a homeowner association manages
         | common/external parts of the building, it does not own them,
         | and has limited authority to tasks strictly defined by law. It
         | seems strange to me that condo ownership in US is so much
         | weaker.
         | 
         | > They never owned their home. They owned a share in a compact
         | that owned their home
         | 
         | That is pretty much housing cooperatives works here, while
         | condos provides much higher legal certainty by registering
         | members as individual flat owners.
        
       | powera wrote:
       | More "entitlement culture" being glamourized by the New York
       | Times.
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | https://archive.is/HH9iI
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-25 23:02 UTC)