[HN Gopher] Things I Won't Work With: Thioacetone (2009)
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Things I Won't Work With: Thioacetone (2009)
Author : chris_overseas
Score : 146 points
Date : 2023-02-25 09:47 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.science.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.science.org)
| lwansbrough wrote:
| A YouTuber went to the trouble of making it.
| https://youtu.be/LmAG8-V_WQY
|
| He ends up doing the final step of the process on an uninhabited
| island in the middle of a lake for safety.
| chrisdalke wrote:
| He seemed to not react too much to the smell. With all the
| other crazy stuff he does, he must be seriously desensitized to
| strong smells if that's even possible...
| VLM wrote:
| covid related loss of smell perhaps?
| piyh wrote:
| Loss of smell due directly inhaling ammonia
| Sharlin wrote:
| You think the chemists were time travelers?
| rootusrootus wrote:
| The video was made in December 2022.
|
| But still, the covid hypothesis seems extremely
| farfetched. Desensitization from exposure I could
| believe.
| Sharlin wrote:
| Oops, thought GP's reply was to another comment.
| ogisan wrote:
| In the article: "The odours defied the expected effects of
| dilution since workers in the laboratory did not find the
| odours intolerable."
| rsfern wrote:
| I think that bit is saying the chemists who synthesized the
| compound were desensitized to it, it's right after a
| passage where they were ostracized and sprayed with
| deodorant at a restaurant during lunch
| junon wrote:
| I don't think so. In NileRed's video it was clear that
| dilution made the odor _worse_ than bring right next to
| it, which otherwise invoked a "chemical"-ey smell rather
| than a putrid trash+sewage smell.
| CommitSyn wrote:
| Full quote, which seems to say it defies the expected
| effects of dilution _because_ the chemists weren't
| bothered by it when they were right next to it, but when
| they were many yards away they could.
|
| "The odours defied the expected effects of dilution since
| workers in the laboratory did not find the odours
| intolerable ... and genuinely denied responsibility since
| they were working in closed systems. To convince them
| otherwise, they were dispersed with other observers
| around the laboratory, at distances up to a quarter of a
| mile, and one drop of either acetone gem-dithiol or the
| mother liquors from crude trithioacetone crystallisations
| were placed on a watch glass in a fume cupboard. The
| odour was detected downwind in seconds."
|
| In other words, the smell intensity increases with
| dilution, _not_ decreases. We must protect this data from
| the homeopaths.
| black6 wrote:
| Hydrogen sulfide rapidly desensitized the nose, it
| wouldn't be surprising for other sulfur compounds to do
| the same.
| JohnBooty wrote:
| I've never smelled this chemical, but I wonder if it's a
| little bit like skunk spray smell?
|
| There's a saying! "Skunks don't have the WORST smell, just
| the MOST smell"
|
| It's not the worst smell in the world. I would say it's not
| even remotely as unpleasant as summertime "dumpster soup",
| sewage, or whatever. But man, skunk smell is just so
| intense and overwhelming.
| dieselgate wrote:
| Yes your last sentence all the way
| toomanyrichies wrote:
| > "Skunks don't have the WORST smell, just the MOST
| smell"
|
| I did my coding bootcamp in downtown Chicago, near the
| Merch Mart, and (at least back in 2013) there was a
| chocolate factory not too far away. I remember walking to
| class and being almost overpowered by the smell. For
| awhile it turned me off of chocolate entirely, and I
| normally have a pretty strong sweet tooth.
|
| I remember feeling so sorry for the people who had to
| work there, day after day.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> chocolate factory
|
| Soup factories are notorious for smells. A single pot of
| cooking food generally smells good, but layer up a dozen
| different soup flavors and in total it smells like rot.
| culebron21 wrote:
| I live in 3 blocks from a chocolate factory, and don't
| find it disturbing. Rather nice. The first time I felt it
| at a marketplace nearby, and thought someone was making
| some hot chocolate stuff, and even wanted to take a look
| what it was, but couldn't find. Sometimes it gives a mild
| chocolate smell around, nothing more.
| masklinn wrote:
| > I remember feeling so sorry for the people who had to
| work there, day after day.
|
| As a kid one of the tours we did was a chocolate factory.
| When the person leading the tour told us the employee
| told us workers were allowed to take as much chocolate as
| they wanted we were super jealous.
|
| At the end of the tour, there was a buffet of chocolate
| snacks nobody wanted to touch (though we were allowed to
| and did bring bags of products home), the person told us
| that after a day of working at the factory, most workers
| have no taste for chocolate snacks whatsoever, and those
| which do will generally fuck up, binge, get an
| indigestion, and at best be a lot more reasonable (at
| worse stop eating chocolate if it was bad enough).
| Without the allure of the forbidden fruit (sneaking
| snacks out), chocolate is definitely overpowering enough
| that it's a turn-off.
| dclowd9901 wrote:
| When my dog got sprayed by a skunk, it smelled
| overwhelmingly like a combination of burning rubber and
| rotten motor oil. Neither of these brands of smells is
| the worst I've ever encountered from a pure quality
| standpoint, but yes, it felt like it completely coated
| your nasal and throat passages. You choke on it.
| culebron21 wrote:
| Oh, dogs and smells, this makes me remember my poodle
| who, as every dog, would routinely look for stinky stuff
| to lay in. Once he found a dead cat -- it was rather
| nasty to wash him in the bath after that. Another time he
| was running around and found a rot fish thrown away near
| a trash tank -- this was the smelliest washing ever. Had
| to wash him twice with soap, then with shampoo. Another
| time, in winter, there was parking area covered with hard
| snow, compacted by car tires. And he laid and started
| rolling on a seemingly featureless spot. It turned out,
| some diesel fuel had been spilled there.
| world2vec wrote:
| Yeah his nose doesn't feel anything anymore. But the
| cameraman had a rough time in that island.
| rini17 wrote:
| And of course, since selenium compounds are said to smell even
| worse...
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=031vrZAMEHU
| lovehashbrowns wrote:
| Ugh okay I'm gonna try to buy some from him and see what it
| smells like.
| pancrufty wrote:
| Selenium stinks alright
| jojobas wrote:
| The moment I saw that I knew I had to reproduce that. Turns
| out you can just buy all the required stuff.
| cheshire137 wrote:
| Lol I knew before clicking it would be NileRed.
| martin_a wrote:
| I didn't really like chemistry in school, but NileRed makes
| me wish it was different. Great guy!
| actually_a_dog wrote:
| I'm a little disappointed by this article. After all, I'm sure
| the author knows that anything that stinks with sulfur can be
| made stinkier by substituting selenium! Selenoacetone is worse
| than thioacetone!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=031vrZAMEHU
| amelius wrote:
| Is this the stuff they use in legal pepperspray alternatives (in
| places where pepperspray is not legal)?
| jandrese wrote:
| More likely to be methyl mercaptan as that is frequently used
| as an odorant and is available from chemical suppliers.
| nibbleshifter wrote:
| Not that I'm aware of.
|
| It would be classed the same as pepper spray in the UK (a
| "noxious chemical").
|
| The skunk lock and similar products that use a malodorous
| chemical are illegal in the UK for this reason.
|
| There are "self defense sprays" sold in the UK and some other
| countries that just contain a dye, no irritant or malodorous
| substance, but even those are legally questionable at best -
| just there's been no case law yet that I'm aware of.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| That all seems a bit excessive doesn't it? Does that mean you
| can't carry a pocket knife either? I would be lost without my
| Leatherman or at least a swiss army knife.
| nibbleshifter wrote:
| Yes, it is excessive.
|
| The UK is highly restrictive, in so many ways.
|
| As for knives in the UK: so long as the blades under 3
| inches long, and it is a non locking folding knife, it is
| legal to carry in public (with some exceptions).
|
| Any knife longer than 3 inches, or any knife with a locking
| blade, cannot be carried unless you have a good reason (eg:
| going to/from work, etc).
|
| You likely will have to argue this reason in court if the
| police officer is a cunt, and most of them are cunts when
| it comes to having common sense around blades.
|
| Fixed blade knifes of any length require a "good reason" to
| carry.
|
| A lot of coppers in the UK are ignorant as fuck too, and
| will confiscate your folding, non locking, sub-3 inch Swiss
| army knife requiring you to jump through burning hoops,
| wade through an ocean of piss, and sacrifice a virgin goat
| at midsummar to get it back.
| galangalalgol wrote:
| At the other end of the spectrum my kid can walk around
| with a machete and be perfectly legal, but her school
| library can't have V for vendetta. Is there anywhere that
| doesn't nanny about access to ideas _or_ "weapons" (I'd
| rather use an umbrella as a weapon than a Leatherman if
| it came to it).
| nibbleshifter wrote:
| I have no idea if anywhere exists that doesn't have
| _some_ nanny state bullshit going on.
| rcarr wrote:
| In defence of the police officers, you are probably
| dealing with similar level of anxiety as soldiers. I
| imagine a high number of them have had to deal with a
| knife incident and just because you've got a taser, some
| training and some backup doesn't necessarily mean it's
| going to end well for you. There are quite a few reports
| of people (especially large blokes like rugby players)
| who can shrug off a taser and go on a rampage. It
| famously took 20 police officers to arrest Eddie Hall and
| that was before he became a professional strongman.
|
| I've heard the expression "don't go into a knife fight
| and expect to come out uncut". As in, even if you win,
| there's a high likelihood you're going to have slash
| wounds on some part of your body somewhere. Yes a bit of
| common sense should be in order but I can also understand
| why they want to be very strict about these things.
| Having to deal with a knife fight and the aftermath
| probably isn't a great day at work.
| amelius wrote:
| > cannot be carried unless you have a good reason (eg:
| going to/from work, etc).
|
| Sounds like you can easily get around any problems by
| just saying you are heading for work.
| nibbleshifter wrote:
| The problem is, if the officer doesn't believe your
| reason is good enough, you end up having to go to court
| over it - which is expensive, and you may well lose and
| catch a custodial sentence.
|
| I can't really overstate how ridiculous the UK's laws
| around knives are.
|
| Even tradesmen with glaringly obviously valid reasons to
| carry knives are recommended to lock them securely in a
| toolbox while not at the jobsite to avoid prosecution.
| amelius wrote:
| Perhaps wrap it in gift-paper then :)
| RF_Savage wrote:
| Most likely not.
| voxadam wrote:
| If you're interested in other terrifying compounds be sure to
| read _' Ignition'_.[0]
|
| My footnote is for a scan of the original printing but I believe
| the book has have recently been reprinted in multiple formats.
| Regardless of the format you choose, it's a hell of a read.
|
| [0]
| https://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/ignition.pd...
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| I've tried to read it, and while I can see it's an entertaining
| read, at the same time it reads like a long string of chemical
| compounds and formulas being read. I'd only recommend it if you
| have a better grasp of and interest in chemistry than I have.
| masklinn wrote:
| From my recollection (I haven't re-read it recently), it's
| pretty easy to skip the raw chem stuff if you're not
| interested.
|
| Though that may be a skill I acquired from my youth misspent
| reading Alexandre Dumas and Jules Vernes (as writers of
| serials, padding chapters was a very common occurrence which
| makes for frustrating reads when you hit 5 pages of fishes in
| 20000 leagues under, the ability to quickly skim and skip is
| necessary to reach the end).
| mhb wrote:
| I agree. I muddled through it because the non-technical 25%
| made it worthwhile and the writing was very nice.
| mnemotronic wrote:
| Sounds like a possible weapon. Not fatal or toxic but certain to
| temporarily disable troups downwind.
| jamiek88 wrote:
| Aaand you've just hit the problem with chemical weapons.
|
| Wind shifts.
|
| Before you know it your own troops are vomiting and choking on
| their uvulas.
| EdwardCoffin wrote:
| Anyone thinking this might have potential as an unconventional
| weapon might find it interesting to read Neal Stephenson's
| _Zodiac_. The protagonist, a chemist-turned-environmental-
| activist, makes some Putrescine (a similarly stinky substance)
| for self defence.
| sokka_h2otribe wrote:
| Hmmm, I believe I first invented the stink bomb in avatar the
| last Airbender
| AlbertCory wrote:
| For a not-all-that-fun time, go to eBay and search on that.
|
| there was one answer, and it was for a prank device to _detect_
| that.
|
| Plus I got a box inviting me to select the vehicle type this was
| for. I took one, and got a lot of miscellaneous stuff having
| nothing to do with thioacetone.
| pdpi wrote:
| If this is your first time reading one of these, Derek Lowe's
| "things I won't work with" series is a great way to spend a
| Saturday afternoon.
| memling wrote:
| FOOF is my favorite. Come for an analysis of Streng's papers
| and stay for Satan's kimchee.
| rwmj wrote:
| FOOF - https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-
| won-t-wor...
| erik_seaberg wrote:
| I first read https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-
| won-t-save-yo... so I will always have a soft spot for it.
|
| "[...] it can potentially go on to "burn" things that you
| would normally consider already burnt to hell and gone, and a
| practical consequence of that is that it'll start roaring
| reactions with things like bricks and asbestos tile."
| robinsonb5 wrote:
| That was my introduction to the series, too - certainly a
| classic! (I have a vague recollection that it was linked to
| from DansData at some point, but couldn't swear to it.)
| jiggawatts wrote:
| If you keep researching, it's a fun rabbit hole of the
| Internet to go down. The Material Safety Data Sheet from
| one of the few(!) manufacturers is... something else.
|
| The MSDS warnings for ClF3 read like the State Department
| travel advisory warnings for Bhakmut.
| cushychicken wrote:
| _At seven hundred freaking degrees, fluorine starts to
| dissociate into monoatomic radicals, thereby losing its
| gentle and forgiving nature._
|
| Referring to fluorine's "gentle and forgiving nature" got a
| good laugh out of my wife, who has a chemistry degree. It
| also got me a good education about just how gross elemental
| fluorine is.
| ikiris wrote:
| F is for Flags, they be of red.
| bayouborne wrote:
| The collection:
|
| https://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-wo...
| LoganDark wrote:
| Thank you for this link! Always wanted to read the whole
| collection.
| russfink wrote:
| PSYOPS potential?
| mywacaday wrote:
| How are smells transferred and detected far away after a few
| seconds when the air is not moving that fast?
| Sniffnoy wrote:
| (2009)
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| Relevant? Not sure noses have evolved much in 14 years :)
| Kye wrote:
| It's required for submissions older than the current year.
| It's not in the guidelines as far as I know, but people will
| complain (rightly in most cases) and the headline will
| magically change to include it.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| My impression is people complain only if it's news that
| ages, this isn't.
|
| ---
|
| "Romani Invadest Albion!"
|
| > Please add 40BC to the title
|
| ^^ like that
| brookst wrote:
| How many Romans?
| dclowd9901 wrote:
| Speak for yourself. I've had two kids in that time.
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