[HN Gopher] How to date a recording using background electrical ...
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       How to date a recording using background electrical noise
        
       Author : sebg
       Score  : 103 points
       Date   : 2023-02-24 05:29 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (robertheaton.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (robertheaton.com)
        
       | greenyoda wrote:
       | Some discussion from yesterday:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34925583
        
       | sliss wrote:
       | Curious if this can be used to discern AI-generated voice
       | recordings vs authentic.
       | 
       | A determined faker could always add their own noise, but this be
       | a good first-pass detector.
        
         | hummus_bae wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | vimax wrote:
         | A recent approach along these lines is to do acoustic modeling
         | of the vocal tract that would have produced the speech.
         | Unsurprisingly, AI voices do not correspond to realistic human
         | vocal tracts, for now.
         | 
         | https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity22/presentat...
        
       | atoav wrote:
       | So yet another argument for proper, balanced audio recordings and
       | working noise gates.
        
       | Groxx wrote:
       | A video on the same subject: https://youtu.be/e0elNU0iOMY
       | 
       | I really enjoy Tom Scott. Everything he puts out is _wonderfully_
       | concise.
        
         | cynwoody wrote:
         | Yes, Tom Scott is one talented YouTuber.
         | 
         | See, for example, his video on microwaving frozen hamsters back
         | to life[0], in which he interviews the 101-year-old J. E.
         | Lovelock, the scientist who did the work back in the fifties.
         | 
         | [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tdiKTSdE9Y
        
         | moremetadata wrote:
         | His company accounts would suggest he's popular.
        
         | antegamisou wrote:
         | I like the guy too but not a big fan of the whole dumb-it-
         | down/ELI5 culture. Some subjects absolutely require a lot more
         | (written text, experimentation/tweaking with code) than few
         | fancy videos to grasp.
        
           | tverbeure wrote:
           | A dumbed down version is great to introduce people to the
           | subject
           | 
           | Chances are that good written explanations already exist,
           | just a Google search away, for those who want to learn more.
           | 
           | Tom's video and this blog post are perfect combo that
           | complement each other.
        
             | Groxx wrote:
             | Dumbed down without being _inaccurate_ is also often
             | sufficient for anyone with some base knowledge in an area.
             | You can figure a lot out simply by being told the core
             | concept, no need to go into extreme detail.
             | 
             | Extreme detail is great for those that want or need it, but
             | it's far from the only reasonable option for learning
             | things.
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | Re the general flood of these kinds of videos: oh yeah, I
             | think it's excessive. I suspect YouTube is pushing that
             | category lately (which is FAR from the worst to push, so
             | I'm largely okay with that). It feels like all the popular,
             | algorithmically pushed ones are making sure to cross the
             | magic 10 minute mark, and try to look like TV/movie
             | editing, regardless of what those do to the content. Bonus
             | points for obtuse video titles that tell you nothing about
             | what topic is covered.
             | 
             | Which is part of why I like his. They almost never hit 10
             | minutes, or even close. There's little fluff, little drama,
             | little algorithmic gaming - videos today look very similar
             | to several years ago.
        
               | sebzim4500 wrote:
               | IIRC the reason they aim for the 10 minute mark is
               | because they can put in mid roll ads, not because the
               | algorithm wants it.
        
           | acchow wrote:
           | Have you tried any 3Blue1Brown videos? Highly recommend
        
             | antegamisou wrote:
             | Yes and I believe their videos are one the best things on
             | the Internet right now as far as math education is
             | concerned. Same goes for {Computer,Number}phile.
             | 
             | The reason they're high quality learning material is
             | because the explanations of the various concepts respect
             | weaker math backgrounds, without being desperate to be as
             | reductive as possible or have clickbaity titles , and
             | sometimes with downright wrong claims, to generate more
             | audience.
             | 
             | An example of a channel that consistently follows this
             | latter pattern is Veritasium i.e. see the electricity video
             | controversy.
        
               | Groxx wrote:
               | Yeah, Veritasium was more alright a while back, but
               | they've gone WAY off the deep end nowadays. Beyond merely
               | "no longer interested in their content", I think they
               | might be actively damaging at this point.
        
           | vasco wrote:
           | All subjects have non-dumbed down versions in research
           | papers, university level books or industry reference manuals.
           | The existence of more dumbed down content doesn't make those
           | disappear.
        
       | cynwoody wrote:
       | Right below the author's comment, "Regardless of a grid's size,
       | the current flowing through it oscillates in perfect synchrony,
       | at exactly the same frequency, throughout the whole grid," he
       | presents a map of Western Europe's regional groups. I notice that
       | Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Iceland comprise the Nordic Regional
       | Group.
       | 
       | Iceland? There is a lot of water between Iceland and the other
       | three nations in its group. Is Iceland's power indeed
       | synchronized with the other three? If so, why does it need to be?
       | 
       | Below the map, the author includes a link crediting the Wikipedia
       | article on power grids[0], which includes maps of other regions
       | in the world.
       | 
       | Perusing the map for North America, I notice another
       | noncontiguous regional group, namely the Alaska group. Most of
       | Alaska is off the grid (or, more accurately, on a collection of
       | local grids too small to be named). The named group includes a
       | slice of the interior extending northward from Anchorage towards
       | Fairbanks and a separate noncontiguous area containing Juneau. I
       | have the same question, are the two sub-regions synchronized?
       | 
       | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_area_synchronous_grid
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | lordnacho wrote:
       | Great article. Something in me finds satisfaction when I
       | recognised something I learned about at uni applied in the real
       | world.
       | 
       | Now on to building an ENF spoofing machine that people can carry
       | around with them to confuse eavesdroppers.
        
       | justinclift wrote:
       | Sounds like anyone wanting to do a "proper" fake job will now
       | need to separate out any existing hum, then add a new continuous
       | "hum track" based upon those publicly available ENV values.
       | 
       | Probably wouldn't even be all that hard.
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | By itself? No. But this is just one more thing that can be used
         | to date a recording. If you even know about it.
         | 
         | There are hundreds of known fingerprints and you just need to
         | forget about or not know of just one for your fraud to be
         | called out.
        
       | dfox wrote:
       | > Regardless of a grid's size, the current flowing through it
       | oscillates in perfect synchrony, at exactly the same frequency,
       | throughout the whole grid
       | 
       | I have a feeling that this is not exactly true. The grid is
       | composed of transmission lines (in the "wires on pylons sense"),
       | that are on one hand short enough that they do not really behave
       | like transmission lines (in the circuit analysis sense), but on
       | the other hand long enough that their propagation delay and other
       | "RF-like" properties are somewhat interesting for design of
       | efficient grid.
       | 
       | On the other hand, the phase shifts and related distortion
       | effects are outside of the bandwidth of the audio recording as
       | long as the grid is at least somewhat properly designed.
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-25 23:00 UTC)