[HN Gopher] 4-day workweek trial
___________________________________________________________________
4-day workweek trial
Author : paulpauper
Score : 84 points
Date : 2023-02-24 18:40 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (apnews.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (apnews.com)
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| I would like it if media labelling of this sort of thing always
| talked about hours as well as days.
|
| A shift from a 40hr, 5 day workweek to a 32hr, 4 day workweek is
| utterly different than a 40/5 to 40/4 shift.
| ghaff wrote:
| I'm not sure it is. For a lot of people here, an ostensible
| 8-hour workday and an ostensible-10 hour workday are probably
| not a lot different especially if they're working
| remote/hybrid.
| jjice wrote:
| I worked at a startup that did a four day work week. It was
| awesome for the most part. The problem is, they would rely
| heavily on the four day work week to be able to pay less in
| salary, which is completely fair and very worth it to a lot of
| people. The issue came in when they pretty much explicitly told
| people they were expected to work on Fridays anyway, defeating
| the benefit of the four day work week, but allowing them to keep
| salaries lower and put "four day work week" on job listings.
|
| They've threatened to get rid of it multiple times, claiming it's
| still a trial period (over a year of having it), which is fine,
| but they don't mention that it's a trial at all to new hires. I
| know a lot of the company that would leave in a heart beat if
| they got rid of it since it was a such a big part of why they
| chose the job.
|
| I left, got a more interesting job that paid a lot more and they
| kept trying to get my to stay by referencing the unlimited PTO
| they gave me but I didn't use (less than a week taken in two
| years) and the four day work week that I hadn't taken advantage
| of since I joined. Needless to say, I got a big raise and I work
| the same amount that I did before.
|
| An extra day off is absolutely additional compensation and is
| worth a significant amount. It's just that in my (small sample
| size and limited) experience, it's used as a crutch and there
| were pretty much expectations that you work on that extra day,
| negating the time off. I hope most other four day work week
| companies don't do this and I just had a bad draw, but that's my
| anecdotal experience.
| tehf0x wrote:
| Sounds like that was simply not actually a 4-day workweek
| company! My experience working 4-day workweeks (Thursday
| evening desktop goes off, corp phone gets left at desk) is
| brilliant, especially mixed with full remote, I would likely
| give up more than 20% of my salary to have this permanent 3-day
| weekend! (Shh, don't tell HR)
| jrockway wrote:
| I would expect to see more than a 20% salary drop, sine the
| cost of your healthcare and other benefits doesn't decrease
| when you work one less day.
| pastacacioepepe wrote:
| What if productivity stays on a similar level?
| t-writescode wrote:
| To add, that _has_ been the results of studies like this.
| jjice wrote:
| Well it's good to hear that it's done properly else where! I
| absolutely agree with the salary difference. I'm early enough
| in my career (no spouse or children either) that I'm willing
| to spend more time for more compensation, but I can see
| myself valuing that extra day off way more in the future as
| well.
| renjimen wrote:
| This sounds like a very bad implementation of 4-day work week
| and is not representative of my 4-day work week arrangements at
| my current and previous employers. It's a shame this comment is
| top of the comments because 4-day work weeks are so gosh darn
| amazing for employees (and probably employers too!)
| jjice wrote:
| I'm glad to hear other people haven't had the same experience
| I have had, but I figured I'd share my experience.
| lozenge wrote:
| This might sound stupid, but why would you take less than a
| week off in two years? Actually, why not take off something
| more like eight weeks?
| jjice wrote:
| Not stupid at all, it sounds wacky. It goes hand in hand with
| my four day work week really requiring Friday work. At this
| place, it was frowned upon and straight up said during a
| company all hands meeting or two that taking time off was
| heavily discouraged at a time when the company needed as much
| productivity as possible.
|
| We offered unlimited PTO, which I've found to just be a way
| to sound really great but in reality they can block PTO if
| it's over a given amount and look down on you for taking that
| PTO. It's never an explicit "you will not get a promotion",
| but you'll get less opportunities, potential for promotion,
| and such as you're not seen as a "team player" like they
| bring up during the all hands. It's a crappy thing.
|
| Should I have just taken my time off anyway? Maybe. Working
| somewhere where you have an actual set amount of PTO has
| never brought that negative stigma with it. I'm not surprised
| if this isn't common for unlimited PTO companies, but I've
| read that the reason companies offer it is because employees
| take less time off on average.
| graeme wrote:
| > That was all while companies reported revenue largely stayed
| the same during the trial period last year and even grew compared
| with the same six months a year earlier, according to findings
| released this week.
|
| It's really too soon to tell the results. As long as you don't
| shut down, most companies' revenue is affected more by what they
| did in the medium term past than the recent past.
|
| Are there any metrics of productivity that companies could track
| which would be forward indicators rather than lagging indicators?
| renjimen wrote:
| It's so strange to me how opposed to 4 day work week most of the
| comments here on HN are. It seems like the main grievance people
| have is how businesses will be affected (despite the study
| showing negligible or positive impact), while downplaying or
| ignoring the huge quality of life improvements reported. A
| business is just a lifeless entity with very little meaning,
| while your time is the single most meaningful thing to you. Why
| on earth wouldn't you be singing the positives of this study?
| corbulo wrote:
| Because you can find a study saying almost anything today. We
| live in an information rich world. It causes people to favor
| their anecdotes more.
|
| My question is, are a lot of the 'benefits' simply because
| people are contrasting it to a 5 day work week? Much of the
| logic i'm seeing about 4 day work weeks could be applied to a 3
| day work week once people get used to 4 days. I'm not seeing
| anything unique about 4 days that makes it objectively
| superior.
|
| The main argument I see is less work=greater morale, so lets
| work less!
| renjimen wrote:
| > Because you can find a study saying almost anything today.
|
| That's a strawman argument for this study, which is not
| anecdotal but a large scale study with a statistically
| significant cohort.
|
| > Much of the logic i'm seeing about 4 day work weeks could
| be applied to a 3 day work week once people get used to 4
| days.
|
| How do you know until you try? What makes 5 days the optimal
| number? It's just some historical compromise we settled on
| with no scientific support, which is the aim of studies like
| the one in the article.
|
| > The main argument I see is less work=greater morale, so
| lets work less!
|
| The argument is less time at work = (greater morale +
| similar/better business outcomes)
| corbulo wrote:
| >That's a strawman argument for this study, which is not
| anecdotal but a large scale study with a statistically
| significant cohort.
|
| I never said it was anecdotal. Quite the opposite. Do you
| know what p hacking is? The number of methods to distort
| data without detection is too many to count. It's just a
| fact of life if you're exposed to enough studies on nearly
| any subject. Appeals to authority are just that.
|
| >How do you know until you try? What makes 5 days the
| optimal number? It's just some historical compromise we
| settled on with no scientific support, which is the aim of
| studies like the one in the article.
|
| Why not 6? Or 8? Or 2? 1? Define scientific support in this
| context. Going with a blanket approach to say 4 days a week
| should be the norm for every industry is quite
| unscientific. 4 day work weeks for any on call industry
| would be absurd.
|
| >The argument is less time at work = (greater morale +
| similar/better business outcomes)
|
| Then why aren't the businesses that already employ it
| outcompeting fortune 500 companies? Why isn't there clear
| evidence in the business themselves (being more competitive
| in their fields)? Why is it only the studies that come up
| with these results?
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| Less work leading to greater morale with negligible impact on
| productivity highly suggests that the extra workday is
| bullshit and should be done away with.
|
| Maybe that's also true of three days? I'm all for trying it.
| If it isn't, fine, that's a good argument not to do it.
| corbulo wrote:
| Or maybe there are other relationships at play?
|
| Could it be not because its the 5th day, but because its
| the 'final stretch' to the weekend and would therefore
| apply to any final day of any workweek? In my experience,
| i've seen the same behavior before holiday weekends. Should
| workweeks be 3 days on this evidence? Should workweeks be
| dictated by productivity on the final day? Why? Is 50%
| productivity better than 0? Should the only important
| consideration about a company be morale? Should morale be
| directly tied to quarterly earnings? Why or why not?
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| Dude, the whole point of this thread is that we literally
| tested this and reduction to a 4-day from a 5-day was
| shown to have a negligible impact on productivity!
|
| It's like you're arguing from some other reality, what
| the actual fuck!?
| debarshri wrote:
| I know people who are happy working for 80h a week when work has
| purpose. I know people who work 4 days a week and they hate their
| job and are unhappy. I think hours don't matter, you should give
| freedom to your employees and make sure they enjoy and find
| purpose in work they do.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| > I think hours don't matter
|
| So you think the article's mistaken that these workers are
| happier with reduced hours?
| junon wrote:
| I think both things can be true.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| ... how? Unless happiness isn't a thing we're regarding as
| mattering?
| hbrn wrote:
| Unfortunately there's not enough work in the world that has
| purpose. Someone has to do the dishes.
| stinkytaco wrote:
| Doing the dishes has a purpose, but I still don't want to
| spend 80 hours a week doing them, especially not at the rates
| it would pay. Lots of meaningful work is also quite hard work
| that has an upper limit even if it is purposeful.
| PhasmaFelis wrote:
| That doesn't mean hours don't matter, it just means that hours
| aren't the only factor, which should be obvious.
|
| I don't doubt that there are people who are happy working 80h
| at something they love, but _most_ people are not like that.
| bradreaves2 wrote:
| I worry about publication bias with these studies.
|
| If a researcher finds the counter-intuitive results that working
| less leads to equivalent or better outcomes, it will be a
| headline.
|
| If a researcher finds that working less leads to getting less
| work done, who would publish it? It won't get media headlines,
| but even scientific journals will not accept the results.
| danaris wrote:
| > but even scientific journals will not accept the results.
|
| What? What are you talking about? Why would a scientific
| journal not accept it, if it's a properly done study that
| _contradicts recent results_?
|
| Furthermore, there are _plenty_ of "water is wet" studies that
| get published all the time--some of which are confirming things
| we "know", but don't have solid scientific data on, others of
| which are doing replications of existing studies. (I suppose
| you probably wouldn't get much traction with studies that
| rehash _very_ old, many-times-replicated results...)
|
| I don't think scientific journals work the way you think they
| do.
| waboremo wrote:
| You would have to quantify why less work being done is an
| inherently bad thing to humanity.
| corbulo wrote:
| Can you define what that means without using socioeconomic-
| class terms?
| waboremo wrote:
| What purpose does that serve when this is a socioeconomic
| discussion?
| HEmanZ wrote:
| (Almost) No one would argue that working less for the same
| exact output is worse than working more. That flies in the
| face of the most basic ideas in economics.
|
| The question is finding the balance, work that produces
| productive things people value. And it turns out, free market
| economic systems are pretty good at democratically converging
| on answer.
| snapcaster wrote:
| What? No you don't. Each individual firm uses their own
| metrics to decide these things. How would one even measure or
| quantify a "bad thing to humanity"?
| waboremo wrote:
| Context is important. What's being discussed is general
| work week trials, and the idea that nobody would publish a
| paper that demonstrates working less = decline in work
| done.
|
| Individual firm metrics are useless to even bring up here.
| ghaff wrote:
| Furthermore, there absolutely are jobs where people will get
| more work done in five days than in four. Lots of people would
| _prefer_ to work four days but there is pretty obviously not a
| universal rule that they 'll get as much work done.
| moduspol wrote:
| We're in the same boat now with in-office vs. work-from-home
| studies.
|
| Though I'd argue there's also a bias in that there are likely
| very few researchers choosing to hypothesize the five day work
| week is more productive, structuring the study to confirm that,
| and executing the study.
|
| The incentives are all in the other direction.
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| seems to somewhat validate graeber's bullshit jobs thesis
| ghaff wrote:
| What I see from people I know at different companies is that
| Friday--and especially Friday afternoon--has sort of gotten
| normalized as a sort of wind down into the weekend day. Minimal
| number of meetings. People catch up on some reading. Stuff like
| that. People aren't fully off in general but they're cleaning up
| from the week, getting organized for the next week, and maybe
| closing their computer early.
|
| So, while most companies aren't on a 4-day workweek, a fair
| number have at least some percentage of employees who are on sort
| of an informal 4+ schedule.
| timmg wrote:
| > What I see from people I know at different companies is that
| Friday--and especially Friday afternoon--has sort of gotten
| normalized as a sort of wind down into the weekend day.
|
| The question is, if you had a 4-day work-week, would
| _Thursdays_ then become normalized as the day people wind down?
| nawgz wrote:
| Congrats, you have mastered applying the slippery slope
| fallacy like a true capitalist. I will now offer you an
| executive position, where you will mostly schmooz and travel,
| please continue to question the worker's motivations and
| incentives relentlessly during your time here.
| senko wrote:
| That is not a slippery slope fallacy. It would be a fallacy
| if gp then concluded that 4-day workweek would end up in
| 0-day workweek.
|
| It is entirely reasonable to expect people might be more
| lax on the last day of the week, defeating the argument
| that we might as well have Friday's off because noone's
| working hard anyway.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| The crux of it is that we've gotten so much more
| productive in the last four decades and most of the gains
| (at least in the US) are going to the wealthiest who own
| the vast majority of securities.
|
| Could the 3 day week be next? Maybe! Let's try the 4 day
| work day first so labor can get some of those gains by
| way of work life balance. Otherwise, this power balance
| shift will occur naturally as the developed world ages
| and the share of productive workers shrinks year after
| year (slowly some places, faster others).
|
| https://www.statista.com/chart/23410/inequality-in-
| productiv...
|
| https://www.statista.com/chart/18458/working-age-
| population-...
|
| https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wealthiest-10percent-
| of-...
| fpoling wrote:
| Wednesday off from that perspective may be more productive.
| It is easier to focus on work for 2 days than for 4.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| N=1 but that's not my case. Now, not everyone on my team has
| 4-day workweek.
| ghaff wrote:
| I don't really think so other than maybe some people would
| take off early for their 3-day weekend.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| Monday off makes a lot of sense, as "observed" holidays (ones
| that fall on a weekend but are given a by-convention weekday
| off, by some businesses and, usually, schools) are often
| Mondays.
| johnchristopher wrote:
| > Monday off makes a lot of sense, as "observed" holidays
| (ones that fall on a weekend but are given a by-convention
| weekday off, by some businesses and, usually, schools) are
| often Mondays.
|
| And this is why this year I chose Friday as my day off.
|
| edit: @yamtaddle: to be clear, I am on a 4-day workweek and I
| am paid for 4 days. I have to be really disciplined in
| shutting off work computer on Thursday (still working on
| that). No children for the moment, but it's clear to me I
| would choose a Monday off if that was the case.
|
| Totally agree for more time off for parents and children.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| Heh--I mean, a lot of workplaces don't give those observed
| days off, but schools do, so it'd be convenient for parents
| if they were also off on those days, and it might make it
| an easier sell to businesses.
|
| [EDIT] But I do get your point :-)
| readonthegoapp wrote:
| i created this propaganda site to try to help formalize
| informal fridays -- with the ultimate goal of making them go
| away completely -- i.e. a 4-day work week:
|
| https://nomeetingsfriday.com/
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Be an ally:D Thank you for this chuckle. I personally approve
| of this propaganda effort.
| HEmanZ wrote:
| Even 10 years ago, while working at an online marketing agency,
| we started "happy hour" every Friday around 1pm. Many people
| unofficially left the office at noon. This was just considered
| "casual fridays" which sort of translated to "work if you
| want".
|
| Now I work for a company that doesn't have official 4 day weeks
| but it's well known you can tell your manager you won't be
| working most fridays and so long as your productivity is
| reasonable, managers are happy to oblige. So it's "4 day
| workweek if you want it"
|
| I think ya, a lot more people work 4 days per week than any
| data collection would suggest
| reidjs wrote:
| I work at a full remote company in a similar situation. On
| the record, yes we work Friday, but it's silently accepted
| you don't make sweeeping changes to our products and organize
| intense meetings on Friday. And if you take a half day,
| nobody will judge you as long as you're Not blocking anything
| important
| kiernanmcgowan wrote:
| One thing that I've experienced is making Friday a "non
| essential work" work day. Its a day to do small tasks that have
| piled up over the week, do some clean up, and otherwise try and
| figure out what the next week looks like.
|
| What made this really work IMO is that if someone needed to
| sync on something or get a context download Fridays became the
| day to do it because no one would have an excuse to not do some
| knowledge sharing. Toss in grabbing lunch and coffee with other
| coworkers and it ends up being a great way to build company
| cohesion and foster cross-team/org relationships.
|
| And, if you decide to leave after lunch to play tennis no one
| is going to give you the side eye.
| rubicon33 wrote:
| IMO, there's a big difference between 4+ and a formal 4 day
| policy.
|
| In a formal 4 day policy I can be fully offline, fully
| disconnected, free from guilt or feeling bad about not actually
| working.
|
| So while it might sound like 4+ and 4 are close, I don't
| personally think they're all that close. I am the type of
| person though who generally works through Friday solidly,
| because I'm expected to, even though other people take that
| time much more lax.
| ghaff wrote:
| There is clearly a difference. But it's also the case that
| informal "wind-down Fridays" at many companies is a much
| lower bar than a formal 4-day workweek but both companies and
| people differ.
| ljp_206 wrote:
| I'm curious if anybody knows of any 'practical guides' to the
| four day work week, or toolsets that can help traditional
| organizations make four day work week a reality. We hear about
| the 4DWW so often now, but I'd love to actually see how it's done
| - to be able to bring some suggestions to leadership at my
| company on how we could actually do that without doing a top-down
| audit of the company. Of course lots of things are going to be
| unique per org, but are there any "If you do this, do this
| instead" that can make the transition easier, or indeed even a
| feasible thing to broach with coworkers and executives?
| alldayeveryday wrote:
| [dead]
| dalmo3 wrote:
| My cynical view is that those people were happier because they
| were in a privileged position while the rest of society still
| functioned regular hours.
|
| Make 4dww universal then ask them again after every service they
| use start taking 20% longer, being 20% more expensive, their
| favourite restaurants closing down from the lack of staff, longer
| lines everywhere from the increased demand for leisure and
| reduced supply.
|
| It could work but it's far from obvious to me.
| tehf0x wrote:
| Dude if my restaurant choice being reduced is the cost of
| everyone having a nicer life I think we've already reached a
| pretty clear conclusion.
| dalmo3 wrote:
| > if my restaurant choice being reduced is the cost of
| everyone having a nicer life
|
| Your words, not mine.
| baal80spam wrote:
| It's not a cynical view, it's a realistic one. People
| (obviously) don't want to see negatives of a shorter work week.
| drewcoo wrote:
| The article said that productivity increased. How did this "20%
| tax" appear?
|
| Or are you saying that shorter work weeks will be an excuse to
| price gouge? That's valid. Any change seems to be an excuse to
| price gouge.
| f1yght wrote:
| I'd be interested in a study that looked at 5x6 or something
| similar. Sure there's 1 less day to the weekend but those shorter
| work days allow you to do more after work.
| benji-york wrote:
| I don't have a study, but an anecdote: for the last 18 months
| or so, I've worked 32 hours a week. Originally, I thought I
| would work 4x8, but as time went on, I really enjoy working 5
| or 6 or 7 hours a day, depending on my desire and the work
| needing to be done.
|
| It's really nice to be able to not set an alarm and just wake
| up and work whenever you're ready or be able to take an
| afternoon off and take the kids to the park if you feel like
| it.
| ghaff wrote:
| That sounds like a recipe for working more hours and severely
| curtailing being able to do activities with other people.
|
| My main objection to the 4-day workweek is it optimizes for
| people who want a shorter workweek with a possible tradeoff of
| curtailing the ability to take big chunks of time.
| aetherson wrote:
| Working a 30 hour workweek constitutes "a recipe for working
| more hours and severely curtailing being able to do
| activities with other people"?
| [deleted]
| ghaff wrote:
| Yes. Because people end up working extra hours on the days
| they're working, especially if they have a commute, and
| they just have the overhead of getting settled in the now
| 6-day workday. Furthermore, weekends are the time a lot of
| people get together for activities.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| > in the now 6-day workday
|
| I think its 6 hours for 5 days a day not 5 hours for 6
| days a week. I agree with your point that when people do
| work on a day its easy coerces them work longer hours
| that day.
| ScoobleDoodle wrote:
| I read it as 5 workdays for 6 hours each. I think this is
| what they meant.
|
| It appears you read it as 6 workdays for 5 hours each.
| ghaff wrote:
| I think you are correct. I was thrown off by the one less
| weekend day but I think that was relative to a 4-day work
| week--not the status quo. I'd still rather than the 4-day
| week and/or just more vacation days in general.
| danaris wrote:
| That contradicts f1yght's note that "there's 1 day less
| to the weekend".
|
| It's possible _they 're_ misunderstanding how 5x6 is
| intended to work, but they _are_ the ones who introduced
| it to the thread.
| aetherson wrote:
| I think they were contrasting the number of days in the
| weekend to the other possible reduced hours proposal: 4
| days, 8 hours (so 3 day weekends), and suggesting 5 days,
| 6 hours (2 day weekends, one less than the alternative).
| rootusrootus wrote:
| That sounds awful. I'd rather have 3x10.
| f1yght wrote:
| Different priorities for different people, I don't mind doing
| a few hours but really value having time to exercise, cook,
| and have general free time. I don't think 10 hour days would
| leave me with much time to do the things I want every day.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| I agree, everyone will have different priorities. A ten
| hour day still leaves me around six hours of awake time, so
| I could fit everything else I wanted into that time and
| then enjoy the heck out of the four completely open days I
| had left.
| hackernewds wrote:
| Unfortunately the goal for most companies in a capitalist
| structure is not "employee happiness". It's "revenue growth" or
| "shareholder returns".
|
| It's romantic to think they coexist, but in a practical sense
| they don't intersect at the optimal solution
| whiplash451 wrote:
| True. But there are infinite ways of working out this tradeoff.
| Some companies are examples while some really aren't.
|
| If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to be a
| terrible warning.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| Yea, thats why proving that a 4 day week doesn't impact
| "revenue growth" is important. It removes an argument companies
| can have against legislature to push it, or employee demands.
|
| Even something simple like google giving out free food
| increased employee happiness which translated to revenue growth
| from better workers. So it's not obvious that a 4 day week
| can't work, and at some companies a 4 day week could probably.
| atleastoptimal wrote:
| All this 4 day workweek hullabaloo really cements the entitlement
| of modern capitalist grievance discourse. Of course this won't
| affect restaurant workers, nurses, retail employees,
| deliverypeople, sanitation workers, migrant farmers, or any blue
| collar work that can just shut off 3 days a week and not cause
| any issues. Before you decide whether you deserve a 4 day work
| week, think about whether the people who wait on you daily
| deserve a 6 day work week.
| yamtaddle wrote:
| This is what shifts were invented for. It has nothing to do
| with being able to shut something off--factories run 24/7
| without working anyone 168 hours a week.
| drewcoo wrote:
| Sure. I've known nurses that worked 3-day weeks and nurses that
| worked one week on and one week off.
|
| I don't feel they're especially "entitled."
|
| The argument that one group should suffer because other groups
| do is a strange one to me. I don't see software engineers
| asking that we guarantee that other professions work worse
| hours than we do.
| eat wrote:
| It seems silly to make this argument specifically regarding
| time when we've structured our society in such a way that
| certain people's time and labor is more valuable than other
| peoples'. Why not apply this logic to say restaurant workers,
| nurses, retail employees etc. deserve to make as much money as
| software engineers?
|
| Not that I'd disagree with that. Personally, I think it's
| absurd that someone writing JavaScript for an advertising
| company for a few hours a day should make more money than a
| nurse.
| pc86 wrote:
| Nurses make a lot of money, especially the more specialized
| and senior ones. CRNAs make more than most software
| developers. Just about any NP will make over $100k/yr. It's
| kind of weird to group them together with the retail employee
| making $9/hr folding shirts or the server making $3.75/hr
| plus tips at some dive in the middle of nowhere.
|
| We do this weird thing in the US where you are tied so
| intrinsically to what you do for a living that it's become
| taboo to say the objectively true (and I would argue, very
| obvious) thing that some jobs are worth more than others.
| It's not a bad thing that one person gets paid $200k/yr to
| type JS into a computer and someone else gets paid $9/hr to
| fold clothes at Boscov's. It's because anyone can walk in off
| the street and start folding clothes with no training. That
| isn't making any comment on the people behind those jobs,
| just the jobs themselves.
| ScoobleDoodle wrote:
| How about they hire more people at the new "full time" and it
| applies to everyone. Happier employees and happier customers.
| parpfish wrote:
| I think that overall these are good numbers, but I have to push
| back on the claims about the 4-day workweek improving employee
| retention. I'd guess that the benefit is due to the fact that the
| competing offers would force you to go back to 5-day-weeks.
|
| i.e., in a world where _everybody_ had 4-day work weeks, we
| wouldn 't necessarily see less job-hopping.
| nunez wrote:
| Between this and the major push to work from home, it's almost as
| if people in tech and similar industries are willingly sprinting
| into replaceability and driving salaries down.
|
| While remote work and four-day work weeks are awesome, these will
| absolutely incentivize leaders of big companies to find cheaper
| labor in other countries that are plenty fine with working a full
| five-day work week. This is great for lifting a lot of people and
| countries out of poverty but doesn't help the family of four
| paying down a huge mortgage.
|
| Some leaders will (smartly) realize that it makes no sense to pay
| employees less just because they are available remotely for fewer
| hours of the week, but big companies run everything and crush
| views like this eventually.
|
| Interestingly, I think this will nullify the remote work movement
| while permanently decreasing average compensation.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-02-24 23:01 UTC)