[HN Gopher] ThinkPad 701C with a Framework brain transplant
___________________________________________________________________
ThinkPad 701C with a Framework brain transplant
Author : pabs3
Score : 274 points
Date : 2023-02-23 07:42 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (community.frame.work)
(TXT) w3m dump (community.frame.work)
| syntaxing wrote:
| Reminds me of the "X62" mod I did a couple years ago. It was
| quite expensive all said and done but was so satisfying upgrading
| the X61 to a sharp screen and new motherboard
| ct0 wrote:
| I picked up an x62 complete system and its been fantastic. I
| dont use it as much as I should, but I love the feeling I get
| booting it up. Its very unique in the collection of thinkpads I
| have amassed over the years.
| syntaxing wrote:
| Have you ever found a good battery replacement? The battery
| life was always the biggest weakness
| culopatin wrote:
| This makes me want a MacBook display wired as an external
| monitor.
|
| My work laptop is an HP 1040 g8 with the privacy screen. It's the
| worst screen I've ever used. I think an old TN panel from the
| early 2000s had more brightness and better viewing angles. I
| don't understand how HP tested this and said "yep it's good for a
| $2K laptop".
|
| Anytime I'm by a window I can't see what's on the screen. Working
| outside is only possible if you like squinting and you're looking
| at a white background with black text. Not to mention the abysmal
| viewing angles keep you shifting on your chair as you read.
|
| Anyway, having a regular 13in MacBook Air or pro Retina display
| to hdmi would be awesome. I don't think I'd be the only one to
| use it. I wouldn't even need a stand, I'd put it right on top of
| this screen and be done.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > My work laptop is an HP 1040 g8 with the privacy screen. It's
| the worst screen I've ever used. I think an old TN panel from
| the early 2000s had more brightness and better viewing angles.
| I don't understand how HP tested this and said "yep it's good
| for a $2K laptop".
|
| Well, that's the price you gotta pay for a laptop with privacy
| protectors - these things are _used for_ restricting viewing
| angles so that, say, passersby on a train can 't read your
| highly confidential PowerPoint slides full of corporate double-
| speak and general bullshit... and usually bought and required
| by organizations who think their corporate double-speak
| PowerPoints are so uber secret that it is worth making the
| lifes of their employees measurably worse in exchange.
| culopatin wrote:
| Not to this extent. I'm not sure if you're familiar with
| these screens, but the filter can be turned on and off. The
| previous one I had was the 840 g5 and that one had a much
| much MUCH nicer screen that still had the privacy filter.
| That one looked almost normal with the filter off. This one,
| 3 generations later, looks like the proof of concept model.
| post_break wrote:
| I wish there was a modern X230 drop in. Something with great
| battery life, 1080p drop in screen support, etc.
| ravagat wrote:
| Incredible work, I love the ThinkPad 701C and wish for a
| resurgence of that type of industrial design. Very exciting to
| see that a transplant is possible albeit not simple
| Decabytes wrote:
| I love the idea of breathing new life into old hardware like
| this. I bought an X220 for $297 in 2015 because I needed a laptop
| for college and it was all I could afford. It's built like a tank
| and has survive a lot that I put it through. I went through grad
| school with it and retired it after I graduated. The biggest
| thing that held me back was the screen resolution, but everything
| else was awesome (especially the keyboard). An x220 with
| framework guts and a better screen would be sweet!
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > a ~10" compact laptop that IBM sold for a brief period in the
| mid-90s. _It has a full sized keyboard that flares out as you
| open the lid_
|
| It always amazes me what guys in 1995 could fit _a full sized
| keyboard with all keys_ in ~10 ", yet since 2010 the humanity
| lost this wondrous know-how and now even in a 15" notebook you
| would only get an abomination with merged keys and goddamn PrtScr
| instead of ContextMenu.
| exitb wrote:
| Well, we tend to assume that the keyboard layout we know from
| the PCs in the 90s is the only correct one, but these things
| were always changing and adapting to the needs. Looking at the
| average modern computer user, I understand why a contemporary
| MacBook keyboard looks the way it does. That being said, it's
| disappointing that every other laptop keyboard looks just the
| same. Modern tech always converges to a single design, there is
| no market to create something, unless you can really sell
| millions of it.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| I agree with your point. 90s keyboard isn't necessarily "the
| right one", or perfect. BUT! I dislike every manufacturer
| making their own keyboard layout with no clear benefit or
| improvement. If it works don't break it. In particular,
| hiding key navigational keys (home / end / pgup / pgdwn),
| which are not exactly a nerdy requirement - anybody using ms
| office or browser or other tools proficiently will adopt
| them.
| bartislartfast wrote:
| > yet since 2010 the humanity lost this wondrous know-how
|
| more like its cheaper
| atdrummond wrote:
| I think we can blame the mass emulation of Apple products by
| others for this phenomenon. Since Jobs/Ive would never make
| such a design, neither will the other major laptop firms.
| rchaud wrote:
| Macbooks go way too far with this now. I'm typing this on a
| 2014 base model MBP that has both 1x HDMI, 2x miniDP and 2x
| USB 3 ports.
|
| On the 2020 M1 MBP, you get 2 USB ports, and that's it! And
| they have to handle power, display AND headphones!
| rappr wrote:
| Apple hasn't removed the headphone jack from any of their
| laptops.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| Oh Gawd don't get me started. I spent personal money on the
| ThinkPad t25 years ago so I could have aproper keyboard with
| proper home/end/pgup/pgdwn block. It's still my main daily
| driver. Now every laptop invents it's own abomination and
| layout, with key keys scattered and hidden, arrow keys
| combined, etc (and a track pad that's slowly eating up the
| entire surface area instead.... Can you tell I'm a track point
| person :-)
| bartislartfast wrote:
| I couldn't afford to buy myself the t25, always wondered if
| it was worth the money. sounds like it was!
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| It depends.
|
| On the surface, not at all. It's a t470 with a massive
| marketing spiel.
|
| On the other hand, if you spend 10hrs a day on a laptop,
| you'll keep it for many years, and keyboard layout is
| important to you, it may be a worthile choice priced per
| hour of usage. You can also think of it as pre-moded and
| warrantied thinkPad :-).
|
| I have a couple of t480 and e595 around too but much prefer
| the t25. I also have a client mandated HP that, while it
| does have a track point, has an apple-style format and
| keyboard that drives me up the wall. Non-sensical unique
| layout, no feel in keys, plus dreaded combined up and down
| arrows (WHY?? There's so much room on that side! So clearly
| a choice of pretty over useful/functional. The t25 arrow
| keys extend down past space key, so they are full size,
| which neatly demonstrates their priority aligns with mine
| :)
| petodo wrote:
| You spend 10 hours each day out of office/house? Seems
| like problem easily solvable by external keyboard (you
| can keep same one at home and at office), that's what I
| do. I have T520 (specifically bought originally for
| keyboard instead newer models) and hooked up wireless
| full size keyboard, mouse and 32" external display since
| msot of the time I work from home, if I travel I just
| take wireless mouse with me.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| Agreed; I do have the Microsoft Skulpt keyboards for both
| client HP and my T25 laptop (plus monitors on stands
| etc).
|
| But... life! :). Two very young kids and wife who need
| support through the day, so I end up using laptop as a
| lap-top frequently enough :). I take my dad to a doctor
| appointment, or work from friend's home, etc etc.
| Overall, laptop's keyboard is still important for my
| personal use-cases.
| bartislartfast wrote:
| Is it possible to put the t25 keyboard into a t470 or
| t480?
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| Not sure. I've heard before there's a slight plastic
| piece you may need to dremel. It IS a bigger keyboard /
| differently shaped, just looking at my T25 sitting next
| to my T480. As well, sourcing T25 keyboard in the first
| place may not be trivial - it was a very limited run
| model.
|
| Some historical discussion on the topic:
|
| https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=125246
| hoistbypetard wrote:
| Here are details of how someone put together a t480 with
| the t25 keyboard. It's an expensive project:
|
| https://www.xyte.ch/mods/t25-frankenpad/
| causi wrote:
| Shame he couldn't keep the PC Card slots. Would be sweet to have
| a modern laptop that's compatible with the folding card slot
| mouse: https://media.techeblog.com/images/cardmouse.jpg
| imiric wrote:
| PCMCIA was such a cool expansion slot, but not because of that
| mouse monstrosity. :)
|
| From NICs and modems, to memory cards and hard drives--it was
| incredibly versatile. Hot swappable too, assuming your OS
| supported this well. It was the USB before USB, and for a short
| time there were PC cards with USB ports for machines that
| didn't have any. Even today, I miss having an internal slot of
| that size, instead of a dozen different USB devices and
| dongles.
|
| But my favorite has got to be the Rex 3 PDA[1][2]. I've never
| used it, but back then it must've felt magical.
|
| [1]: https://hackaday.com/2021/03/11/rex-wasnt-really-a-pda-it-
| wa...
|
| [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGQNAg3TxCo
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| STM32 can interface with 16-bit cards so a USB bridge is doable
| with some driver work.
| causi wrote:
| It's a bluetooth mouse that only uses the card slot to charge
| the battery. It's a shame no modern laptop comes with storage
| for a travel mouse.
| askvictor wrote:
| I had an HP branded mouse like this; also had a 'presentation
| mode' where it functioned as a slide clicker + laser pointer.
| Good times.
| Reason077 wrote:
| Just imagine the engineers who dreamed up the 701C. I wonder what
| they're doing now days...
| WillAdams wrote:
| While not specifically on the 701c, the book _ThinkPad: A
| Different Shade of Blue_ covers a lot of the early ThinkPad
| history and is great reading.
| bartislartfast wrote:
| John Karidis, the designer / inventor, sadly passed away in
| 2012 at just 53. He had 83 patents.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Karidis
| xbar wrote:
| RIP John Karidis. Thank you for so much inspired design.
| some_random wrote:
| That is so goddamn cool, I love that Framework is making this
| kinda thing reasonably accessible!
| bartislartfast wrote:
| I love the idea of modernising old laptops with this approach. I
| have a ton of (working) old thinkpads and dells I can't bear to
| part with, would love to upgrade some this way.
|
| I probably would have done the 51nb mod already if I could have
| just ordered the parts through a regular online store and not the
| cryptic forum puzzle that was required
| brk wrote:
| It's a cool project, but it appears that it is more of a
| Thinkpad 701 keyboard ported to entirely new everything else.
| Hard to call it a laptop modernization, even though it is a
| very respectable talent to be able to pull that off.
| bartislartfast wrote:
| yeah this one is, but I think that's on account of the tiny
| footprint of the 701. A larger machine would be easier to
| modernise with framework bits
| boomskats wrote:
| I absolutely love my 51nb 10th-gen Intel transplant Thinkpad
| x200. It's incredible how, after 10 years, it still feels better
| as a piece of hardware than my modern Thinkpads do (not to say
| that they're at all badly built). Nothing comes close to that
| keyboard, not even my choc sunsets.
|
| I lost my original Thinkpad 700c that I grew up with in a house
| move about 5 years ago. I don't think I'll ever forgive myself.
| mhb wrote:
| After some of my Carbon X1 keyboard keys stopped working (and
| trackpoint never seemed to work well (e.g., drift)), I
| resurrected my X220. The keyboard and working trackpoint are
| such a joy that it's worth the downgrade of display and sound.
| Also nice to have a real Ethernet port, memory card slot and
| Displayport built in.
| _joel wrote:
| Yea, I've got a 220 still going strong after a turbulent start,
| used to randomly reboot but they fixed the BIOS and it's been
| gtg since. New battery and new keyboard... all good.
| eBombzor wrote:
| > not to say that they're at all badly built
|
| It's okay to be honest. Are modern TPs better built than
| Walmart laptops? Of course. But do they live up to the price
| tag and legendary Thinkpad name? No. Not at all. While modern
| TPs have dipped significantly in quality other manufacturers
| have been catching up.
|
| Some of my issues with T14 Gen 1
|
| 1. Cheap daughter boards for USB c ports that hilariously die
| every few months, on a laptop that only offers USB c
| charging...
|
| 2. Keyboard is trash. I'd rather use the keyboard on my Acer
| Nitro. High actuation tires out my fingers.
|
| 3. Terrible trackpad. Absolutely terrible. Not just the texture
| but the firmware, it works fine for one second then all of a
| sudden, it's this laggy, unresponsive mess.
|
| 4. Cooling is terrible and laptop throttles constantly.
|
| 5. Build quality is terrible for a TP. Screen started peeling
| off when I dropped it once, the chassis screws are easily
| stripped, extremely thing plastic gets chipped, random
| components die and aren't easily replaceable like past TPs.
|
| 6. It's just buggy. Function key lights are incorrect randomly,
| when I plug in my mouse, the trackpad gets like 1-2 second
| input delay.
|
| On the flip side I've been using business Latitudes and Elite
| books at work which aren't great but still work better than
| this TP.
| juujian wrote:
| Interesting idea. How did you deal with the ports? HDMI and the
| likes?
| boomskats wrote:
| Xue Yao has a really nice page [0] explaining how all that
| stuff works. I got mine from Jacky@lcdfans, and he's been
| really great to deal with (contrary to his reputation). I
| haven't used it with an external screen yet, but I believe
| the type C port supports DP.
|
| [0]: https://www.xyte.ch/mods/x210-x2100/
| kohlerm wrote:
| Nice, the keyboard runs on QMK :-)
| martin_a wrote:
| Great work to create this FrankenPad!
|
| Besides that, Framework overall looks very promising to me.
|
| I think they have a nice middle ground between DIY and "works out
| of the box". Yes, you can change parts if you want, but you don't
| need to fiddle for hours to get something going again. With
| enough money you have on-site repairs by big manufacturers, but
| if your IT guy can just swap the motherboard in 15 minutes with a
| spare one, that's even better I'd say.
|
| I'd love to have a matte screen on their devices, though. That's
| something I really like on my ThinkPad. Besides that those
| devices look really good to me and my next device will probably
| be a Framework laptop.
|
| Does anybody have negative experiences with those machines?
| mxuribe wrote:
| I have a friend who recently went through a very negative
| experidnmce with supprt team from Framework...
|
| My friend is quite the hardware expert, and has built and fixed
| computers of all types for decades, and his hardware skills are
| second-to-none. He bought a framework laptop for his
| significant other several months ago - let's say somryhing like
| 5 or 6 months ago. The SO used the laptop, then had to use a
| diffeent machine for work...so left the Framework unplugged for
| about 1.5 ~ 2 months....so of course, the battery lost its
| charge. This is not the issue. Subsequently,. when my friend's
| SO retuned to start using the new machine again, it woulkd not
| start nor charge, etc. Hey, components fail for every hardware
| maker, so not a big deal. After many negative interactions
| between my friend and Framework support, it seems like there is
| a bug in hardware that Framework blamed on Intel compoenent
| which potentially can prevent from batteries charging....in
| addition, somehow it also inhibits computer from using it while
| connected to non-battery power...in other words, the computer
| is not able to be used at all. Here's the worser part, the
| Framework support team stated that even though the machine was
| well within warranty, because they blamed Intel, its not
| returnable nor refundable nor even somthing Framewokr was
| willing to swap out...So my friend and his SO are no stuck with
| no refund nor replacement, and an unsable computer. Their only
| recourse now is legal.
|
| I'm sure there are other details that my friend did not inform
| me about. But if this is happening to others - the poor support
| from Framework team - then this is quite worrying indeed. I
| counted myself as a big fan of Framework, and i definitely was
| going to get myself one whenever i am due to get a new
| laptop...but after hearing this horrorible experience fro my
| friend, i will be hol;ding back from buying anything Framework
| related for quite some time.
|
| @martin_a If you will be looking into Framework, please do
| whatever research you can into their returns/refunds policies.
| Also, I don;t know how to go about this, but: please research
| what other experieneces other folks have had with their support
| department. Good luck!
| martin_a wrote:
| Thanks, that is important information! I'll try to find some
| of the more problematic experiences.
| kkielhofner wrote:
| Chiming in with another Framework experience.
|
| I've talked about it plenty on HN before but generally
| speaking my maxed-out Intel 11th Gen Framework has been the
| most regrettable large technology purchase of my life. Bugs
| like the one you've described are just the beginning. BTW,
| they did acknowledge their culpability in this somewhat and
| finally released a BIOS update for this issue in August of
| last year. However, that doesn't do you any good as you're
| already in your situation.
|
| The BIOS alone clearly has many outstanding bugs and with the
| release of the Intel 12th Gen Frameworks the 11th Gen has
| been all but forgotten by Framework. Just looking at the list
| of issues they addressed in a recently announced[0] BIOS
| update for 12th Gen (no mention of 11th Gen) gives you an
| idea of the issues present (and more) in the 11th Gen.
|
| For many of us our laptops are our tools for our livelihoods.
| As painful as it was to write-off a $2500 purchase I finally
| gave up, went out and bought a MacBook Pro at less than half
| the price, and have been infinitely happier since.
|
| The lesson here is - hardware is hard and fundamental. Buying
| hardware from a startup is generally a bad idea.
|
| [0] - https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptops-are-now-
| thunderbol...
| rchaud wrote:
| >Here's the worser part, the Framework support team stated
| that even though the machine was well within warranty,
| because they blamed Intel, its not returnable nor refundable
|
| It is precisely for this reason that every PC I have bought
| has been a Dell with a 3 yr warranty and next-business-day
| Onsite service.
| idiotsecant wrote:
| Of course the plural of anecdote is not data but:
|
| I also bought a framework for my SO, I was amazed by how easy
| it was to open up and work on and how much effort they went
| through to make it all cleanly modular and simple to service.
|
| My SO has been using it daily for months and loves it. I love
| how easy it is to maintain it. It's a perfect laptop for us!
|
| I love this thing to the extent that I feel an emotional need
| to defend it. Great hardware.
| zerocrates wrote:
| The issue of running down the CMOS battery is well
| documented, and I believe there are hardware-level
| alterations in their second revision that avoid it, both from
| Intel and from Framework altering their internals so the main
| battery can keep the CMOS battery charged.
|
| My understanding of that problem is that it's not fatal or
| permanent: it's a "remove the battery and clear the CMOS"
| kind of situation that's required to get things working
| again. A case where it was really permanently unable to
| charge or operate and was within the warranty period, I don't
| know how a replacement/refund would be avoidable in that
| case.
| chadash wrote:
| _> I think they have a nice middle ground between DIY and
| "works out of the box". Yes, you can change parts if you want,
| but you don't need to fiddle for hours to get something going
| again. With enough money you have on-site repairs by big
| manufacturers, but if your IT guy can just swap the motherboard
| in 15 minutes with a spare one, that's even better I'd say._
|
| Framework owner here. It really is super freaking easy to open
| up this computer and fix things or swap them around. Easy
| enough for your average software engineer (who doesn't have
| much hardware experience), but probably easy enough for your
| average not-super-technically adept person.
|
| On the whole, very happy with my machine. The touchpad wasn't
| registering all clicks when I first got it, but customer
| service happily sent me a new one and no issues since then. I
| also had a driver issue or two when I first got it, but that
| was resolved when I updated my drivers. I'd happily recommend
| the computer to any engineer or anyone with decent "techie"
| skills. It's probably not ready for your less-than-tech-savvy
| average consumer just yet, but it's close. Also, bonus points
| for the machine really looking and feeling very premium. I
| especially love the cover having the nice cog-wheel logo, but
| no brand name on it. I've had a few people tell me, "wow, that
| looks nice, what kind of computer is that?".
| martin_a wrote:
| Great to hear that!
|
| Can you tell me something about external displays? What's the
| most I can get out of it?
|
| Right now I got one 4K display and one 1080p display but I'm
| looking into upgrading to two 4K displays. Is that supported
| by the graphics card?
| chadash wrote:
| I don't know. I regularly hook it up to two monitors (one
| 2560x1440 and one 1920-1200) at the same time (via a USB
| hub) with zero issues. Not sure how it would perform with
| two 4K. If you search around https://community.frame.work/,
| you'll most likely find your answer.
| cassepipe wrote:
| I just ordered a Framework. It has not arrived yet. I am sure
| it is a fine machine, I am here to give some advice against
| FedEx delivery in Europe.
|
| I got no notification by email or phone that they were coming
| yesterday. I was at work so of course I missed their call. I
| went the to FedEx tracking website, it said it had been
| rescheduled today, before noon was the expected delivery time
| and the website it should be there before 18h, again I was not
| notified but I was able to stay home today. Then past noon I
| noticed something odd, the package was still marked to be at
| the same spot as it was in the morning. So while it said it was
| being delivered today it also said that it was not in delivery
| state. So I called them. I got in touch with them, or rather a
| call center subcontractor where they can pay people shit, and I
| realized they didn't know more that I did. They confirmed it
| was weird and reschedule it for tomorrow... Is it going to be
| there tomorrow? I would not be so sure. I asked for proximity
| relay delivery so I don't have to wait home for the package and
| can't just pick it up at some nearby convenience store : It was
| possible... It would be there in 4 days.
|
| To get updates from them you have to submit your names and
| email/phone it but they already have my it! I suspect they do
| that so that I can click that I agree with them using my
| personal data.
|
| Also the website is very heavy and no I don't want a shitty app
| on my phone to be able to track a package.
|
| So Framework if you read me please to using FedEx shitty
| service and use a relay delivery system, it's better for the
| planet too. It is stupidly inefficient to have a truck running
| around people homes in working days.
|
| My advice to Framework buyers : Call FedEx immediately and ask
| for relay delivery or whatever it's called
| a3w wrote:
| "Framework" is a modular laptop from the homonymous company, I
| guess? Was never made clear in the article or title.
| Hamcha wrote:
| Yes, the article doesn't mention it since it's posted on the
| Framework forums
| unwind wrote:
| Correct, and since the article is on their very site [1] I
| guess the context can be forgiven for being assumed.
|
| [1]: https://frame.work/
| bartislartfast wrote:
| I think its become well known enough at this point?
| dchuk wrote:
| Converting that old iPad screen into a normal DisplayPort screen
| is really cool, could be handy on something like raspberry pi's
| or nucs. In the thread linked to about that part, it's not clear
| to me if that is an aftermarket part you can buy or something he
| designed, any ideas?
| surteen wrote:
| It's something they designed, but there are existing "iPad LCD
| to HDMI" controller boards that would be easier to interface
| with than eDP.
|
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/265471676732
|
| https://www.adafruit.com/product/1652
| ofalkaed wrote:
| I wanted a 701C so badly back in the day but they were out of
| reach of my 14 year old self.
|
| I have been debating what to do with my old T42 which I recently
| discovered has died, thinking I will remove the track pad and
| shorten the case to be just the keyboard which should make it fit
| a modern screen quite nicely. Will be a bit of a trick to cut the
| case down and keep it looking good but I am pretty sure I can
| manage it and this will take care of getting rid of the battery
| bay. Thinking of just sticking a beagle bone or two in it but I
| could put a dozen pi zeros in there without even trying but that
| would limit battery space.
| hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
| If it works out please blog about it. If it doesn't, failure is
| hard to admit, but learning from other's mistakes is still
| valuable, so please blog about it anyway.
| ofalkaed wrote:
| I have absolutely no issues with sharing my failures. Only
| part of the project which would be iffy is the
| keyboard/trackpoint, kind of hoping I can just use the GPIO
| on what ever board I end up with and somehow make it work but
| I have yet to look into it at all, seems doable for at least
| the keyboard. The QMK route is always possibly but it feels
| like the lego theory of electronics and I have a completely
| pointless aversion to that.
| hunta2097 wrote:
| I was in an SME in the 90s where we bought 701Cs for the execs.
|
| I can confirm they were awesome, back then it was de rigueur to
| have a chunky docking station to mount your hugely expensive
| (and altogether hugely) CRT monitor.
|
| The 701C had a particularly nice docking station too.
| petodo wrote:
| What is the point of these high resolution displays in 10" body?
| Actually I don't understand them even in bigger bodies, you still
| can't see anything without resizing whole display and they eat a
| lot of battery.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| Its great to have a sharp IPS screen and frankly shouldnt be an
| issue for modern hardware to power. Macs and iPads have had it
| for a long time and most modern laptops now too.
| cstross wrote:
| The 701C's butterfly keyboard is _surely_ out of patent
| protection by now, right?
|
| I'd love to see that style of folding keyboard revived -- either
| as a standalone bluetooth keyboard for tablets/phones, or as part
| of on the the 7" to 10" mini-ultrabooks Chinese vendors like GPD
| and One Netbook sell. Or maybe a Framework mini-ultrabook with a
| 9" or 10" screen ...?
| kemiller wrote:
| There's little point in the era of cheap giant lcds... but man
| I loved that little machine. Kept mine for many years until
| enough plastic parts had degraded and it literally fell apart.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| 16:9 and 16:10 screens, plus the existence of a touchpad make
| it less of a thing.
| jtwaleson wrote:
| It's from 1995 so yes. But it's bulky, pretty fragile and
| difficult to integrate properly with a modern lightweight
| notebook chassis.
|
| I would personally love this, just like I would love a phone
| with a physical keyboard like the old T-Mobile G1 but there is
| no mass market for it.
| ianbooker wrote:
| Another and maybe more accessible target would be the IBM
| Thinkpad X41. It was incredibly slim for its time, it still kept
| the 4:3 screen ratio (not sure if compatible with the bigger
| ipads?). I wrote a bachelor thesis on it and a fanless version
| would still be the laptop of my dreams.
| djaychela wrote:
| When I see this I do think there would be a market for a drop-in
| motherboard replacement for macbooks. Not necessarily to upgrade
| them to run macOS, but to take a (say) 2015 macbook which has an
| excellent keyboard, mouse and screen, and have an upgraded
| motherboard that is a drop-in replacement. It would mean a lot
| less equipment going in landfills, and from my experience of
| earlier (pre-2014) models, they tend to follow the same form
| factor for a few years, so there would be a reasonable market for
| it?
|
| I'm writing this on a 2011 MBP which is running Monterey because
| of OpenCore Patcher, and it's a bit slow, but everything about it
| physically is better than most laptops I would get for under
| PS500. This with a faster processor, graphics and RAM would do me
| for another 5 years for 'general' duties.
| ravagat wrote:
| Ha! This has been an on/off idea in the back of my mind. I
| realized that an opportunity to do this would attract customers
| but not enough to turn into a viable business. On one hand, I
| wish someone at Apple has the imperative to try this at scale.
| I don't think it'd be a profit generating scheme but I do think
| there would be some revenue. I have a couple of 2015 rMBP to
| maybe try this out one day
| radomir_cernoch wrote:
| There is a market for upgraded ThinkPads:
| https://www.facebook.com/lcdfans/ http://www.cnmod.cn/
|
| The "e-shop" makes it quite hard to order, but... it exists.
| :-)
| Lammy wrote:
| Words can't adequately describe how much I love my X2100
| TwoFerMaggie wrote:
| > Because the COVID-19 in China, we can not work ,and we was
| blocked in home ,we can not go anywhere .
|
| > Please wait some days ,I think the COVID-19 will go away in
| 3-2020 .
|
| :( this makes me really sad... hope they're still doing okay
| now
| Squarex wrote:
| it looks so, in december they posted:
|
| > We are free now . So, we will ship some laptop now .
| mcbuilder wrote:
| Sometimes I wonder why I keep a boxes full of a good dozen
| late IBM era Thinkpads, and I remember thinks like this exist
| and hopefully will continue into the future with modern tech
| like OLED, power efficient chips. Maybe if I even just use
| the chassis, I just love the feel of the T42 - T63, 4:3
| aspect ratio is perfect, arguably the best laptop keyboard of
| all time, trackpoint, tracklight, dat Mg case, beautiful 90s
| business aesthetics.
| gedy wrote:
| Agreed, I have a 2011 17in MacBook Pro in the cabinet waiting
| for a project like this. Still a beautiful large screen and
| keyboard.
| ali7388 wrote:
| MBP are not really friendly to this. For example keyboard is
| rivetted, so replacing requires drilling and threading 50 tiny
| screws...
| monetus wrote:
| Think there is some sort of advantage they had by doing that
| rather than say, four screws at the ends of the PCB? Damage
| resistance? - Trying not to believe planned obsolescence was
| the priority.
| chis wrote:
| Would guess that it helps with keyboard flex. And rivets
| are cheaper than screws.
| ali7388 wrote:
| It is lighter and more robust. Screws may come loose.
| toast0 wrote:
| Rivets come loose too; but they're a lot harder to
| retighten.
| loa_in_ wrote:
| I imagine more effective and faster assembly at production.
| mk_stjames wrote:
| What is most surprising about this to me is that the iPad screen
| uses just standard displayport lanes as the interface and doesn't
| need anything crazy to drive it other than a backlight voltage
| boost converter. That is useful to know.
| jasoneckert wrote:
| I find this incredibly fitting. The ThinkPad 701 is a textbook
| example of amazing design/engineering principles (which is why
| there is one on display at New York's Museum of Modern Art), and
| the Framework laptop aspires to be another one.
| sfeng wrote:
| Watch here for a video of how the butterfly keyboard opens:
| https://youtu.be/nRVJCtREW38?t=567
| nerdyadventurer wrote:
| Not related, I am asking this because Lenovo is mentioned on HN
| very often. Can anyone please explain what is special about
| Lenovo laptops? As I know it is China based company.
| asddubs wrote:
| for me it's: matte display, physical mouse buttons including
| middle click, decent linux support, usually pretty good
| hardware quality
| explorigin wrote:
| Lenovo, the company, bought the Thinkpad line from IBM. At the
| time the Thinkpad line had a near-religious following for
| quality and durability. Lenovo had done a decent job
| maintaining the Thinkpad reputation for enough of its models.
| explorigin wrote:
| They also had unique innovations that few other laptops had:
| a finger joystick for a mouse, an overhead keyboard light
| (before we had glowing keys), expanding keyboards for small
| models, etc.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| My first Thinkpad is a T490 from work randomly and if I would
| get to pick in the future I would pick Lenovo over HP or Dell.
|
| They are great business laptops. Still amazing chassis quality
| and keyboard. Great driver support from Lenovo. I also get over
| 8h battery solid out of mine still, on low power plan in Win10.
|
| But the business laptops of HP and Dell are also good, the HP
| Elitebooks and Dell Precisions/Latitudes.
|
| It's just that when people buy Windows laptops, they buy cheap
| ass 300$ Acers from Walmart or a really expensive and loud
| gaming laptop. These business laptops are built to last for
| company use, and it does show. If a company buys 1000 laptops
| from HP, Dell, or Lenovo, and they are shit they won't buy from
| them again, so the quality has to be high. Yes, new they are
| expensive, but a lot of enterprise companies do 3 or 5 year
| hardware refreshes so used you can get them cheap. And company
| employees in general take care of their laptops or just use
| them docked 90% of the time. My keyboard looks new after 3
| years because I most often have mine docked or hooked to an
| external screen/mouse/kb.
| deutschepost wrote:
| I think most people are very fond of the ThinkPad Series which
| was bought by Lenovo from IBM in 2005. These laptops are very
| well built and have good Linux support. And in the past had
| outstanding repairability.
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| Good quality, good materials, matte screens, great keyboards,
| usually very linux compatible, durable, user raplacable parts
| (atleast in older models)... basically a very capable (although
| expensive) business laptop. You also have the dell xps series
| and the old HP probooks, but that's about it. (of course I'm
| talking about the business class laptops, so thnkpads, mostly T
| and somewhat X series, since lenovo also produces cheap crap).
|
| Also, they used to be made by IBM "back in the day", until the
| chinese bought the brand and designs.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| "matte" screens, not good screens! There are lots of x220 and
| similar with terrible, low viewing angle, 1366x768, low
| contrast displays. Transplants from XPS series displays are
| popular for obvious reasons.
|
| I think a big part of the appeal is that the business
| workstations were popular for businesses, and those
| businesses would operate on a 2-, 3-, or 5-year upgrade cycle
| and unload used high-quality workstations on eBay for dirt
| cheap, which also made them popular with the hacker crowd.
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| Usually you have multiple options [1], with different
| resolutions and contrast/brightness levels with and without
| touch. The cheapest models usually suck, but once you go up
| a few levels, those displays are pretty good for a business
| laptop.
|
| [1] example for t14 - https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/
| PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_T...
| loudmax wrote:
| ThinkPad was originally an IBM line of laptops, which they
| later sold to Lenovo when they got out of the PC business.
|
| ThinkPads had a reputation for being durable, but also somewhat
| repairable, so something of a DIY laptop community developed
| around hacking on ThinkPads more than any other laptop brand.
| This is clearly the market that Framework wants to appeal to.
| e12e wrote:
| Mostly due to the IBM legacy - the original thinkpad laptops
| where great mobile workstations. Some of that DNA remains
| (sadly not the original long-travel (by today's laptop
| standards) keyboards.
|
| See eg:
|
| "THINK: A brief history of ThinkPads, from IBM to Lenovo"
|
| https://www.notebookcheck.net/THINK-A-brief-history-of-Think...
| ThatMedicIsASpy wrote:
| To me it is the keyboard. I just don't like any other on a
| notebook, excluding gaming notebooks with full mechanical
| keyboards.
|
| Plus they are the best thing ever you can buy used. Cheap,
| robust and better than anything you could buy for the same
| money.
|
| Random ebay check: T480s 14" Laptop i5-8250U 8GB RAM 256GB -
| 70EUR
| hinata08 wrote:
| I had a think pad from the early 90s (running on win. 3.1), that
| I bought in the middle if the 2010s to also do that. It had a
| floppy disk drive and analog port
|
| Anyway, i couldn't even have time to work on it, as materials
| from the 90s didn't age well.
|
| Just by opening the screen to boot it up a few times, the plastic
| case broke.
|
| After opening the service panels, the foams inside (because there
| needed foam on the hdd for some reason) went into mist
|
| so the MB and the electronic part was the only that was
| recoverable, not the plastic shell
|
| I wonder if OP is having the same issue, if he tries to actually
| use the laptop
| albastru wrote:
| What analog port was that?
| camtarn wrote:
| The game-port perhaps? It had analog inputs for
| potentiometer-based joysticks/paddles.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_port
| brk wrote:
| I don't remember game ports on any of the Thinkpads (I
| worked for IBM at the time and serviced a lot of the very
| early 700's and 710's).
|
| They had parallel ports, DB9 serial, DB15 VGA, and a couple
| of PCMCIA/PCCARD slots, IIRC.
|
| Game ports were DB15, and as the Thinkpads were squarely
| targeted at business users, taking up the real estate for a
| "game" port would seem unlikely, and possibly even a turn
| off for buyers of that era.
|
| At some point internal modem's and NICs came along, but I
| think we might have been out of the 90's by the time that
| happened. I remember juggling an analog modem, 10Mbps
| Ethernet and 4/16Mbps Token ring PCMCIA card, depending on
| what I was doing at the moment.
| serf wrote:
| I think it depends on the environment the laptop saw the most.
|
| ThinkPads from outside/UV-heavy jobs tend to be very brittle,
| i've experienced similar things.
| jon-wood wrote:
| The touch that I liked most on this was the internal USB-A port
| for a Logitech wireless keyboard/mouse dongle, because who wants
| a little lump of plastic sticking out of the side of their laptop
| all the time?
| thwliurieu42343 wrote:
| [flagged]
| rejectfinite wrote:
| Today is a hell hole of shitty materials too
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHXBacEH0qo
| maximus-decimus wrote:
| I mean... Lenovo is releasing the ThinkBook Twist this year
| with a lid that has a a lid on each side : an oled on on side
| and an e-ink on the other.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toRHQhR4UPI
|
| And a few years back they had a laptop where the keyboard was
| an e-ink screen.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKza2lwgDEg
| WillAdams wrote:
| The new model which I am looking forward to is the Lenovo
| Yogabook 9i which is two displays facing each other where one
| can have a keyboard on it, or one can connect an external
| keyboard and have a dual-screen setup:
|
| https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/lenovo-dual-screen-
| laptop-w...
|
| I'm hoping this form-factor becomes popular enough that
| someone (Samsung?) makes a version which supports a Wacom EMR
| stylus (not wild about Wacom AES, though I may have to break
| down and accept it).
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