[HN Gopher] Last undersea Internet cable connecting Vietnam with...
___________________________________________________________________
Last undersea Internet cable connecting Vietnam with the world
breaks down
Author : teddyh
Score : 108 points
Date : 2023-02-22 19:04 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.vietnamplus.vn)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.vietnamplus.vn)
| quux wrote:
| Obligatory link to "Mother Earth Mother Board" by Neal Stephenson
| for anyone wanting a deep dive into the fascinating world/history
| of undersea telecommunications cables:
|
| https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/
| topicseed wrote:
| Having been in Vietnam for long periods of time a few years back,
| "broken undersea cables" were at least quarterly occurrences.
| AbusiveHNAdmin wrote:
| [dead]
| armchairhacker wrote:
| > However, Vietnamese service suppliers said the failures on the
| five cables will not have great impact on the speed of Internet
| connection between the country and the world.
|
| > The SMW3 cable is outdated and going to be decommissioned, so
| it has not been used for fixed broadband Internet services, they
| explained, adding that the latest breakdown didn't occur in the
| peak time, and they immediately carried out responding measures
| to reduce impact on the Internet speed.
| diceduckmonk wrote:
| The article was 6 paragraphs long. I'm not sure citing two
| paragraphs without commentary adds much value.
| layer8 wrote:
| Quoting from the article without further comment can also be
| quite annoying to those who _did_ read the article, for whom
| this is then just a waste of time. It's like, okay, that's
| from the article, but what is your point?
| nosianu wrote:
| When the headline is contradicted by the article then the
| relevant quite is relevant and valuable. It saves time. Not
| everybody reads the article, I'd say that it even is rare
| and that a lot, maybe even most people jump to the
| discussion immediately after reading the headline. Because
| of cases such as this one: When you quickly see the
| headline being contradicted.
|
| Usually articles are a lot longer and they bury such info
| deep, so checking the comments first if its even worth
| clicking on the article is normal, given the huge number of
| sensationalized headlines coupled with the attempt of the
| article writers to keep readers on their page for as long
| as possible instead of coming to the point right away.
|
| The reading behavior of many is optimized for sifting
| through a large number of submitted headlines without
| wasting too much time, not for maximum enjoyment of any
| single one of them. The (I think reasonable) assumption is
| that many, maybe most, even of the initially interesting
| sounding headlines turn out not to be worth reading.
| layer8 wrote:
| Yes, but then please at least state your point why you
| are quoting this portion -- preferably above the quote
| rather than below. Otherwise one can be left to wonder.
| dvh wrote:
| It does, I didn't have to read it. Title might as well been
| "unused internet cable breaks down in Vietnam"
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| So you read it here instead of there, and everyone else
| gets to read it twice. Cool.
| elil17 wrote:
| How would we read the article if people didn't put it in the
| comments? What, by clicking the link? Unthinkable! Please
| remember this is hacker news, you're not allowed to click the
| link /s
| ortusdux wrote:
| You would be surprised by the number of people that skip the
| article and start commenting based solely on the headline.
| Robotbeat wrote:
| Even more surprised by editors who will knowingly mislead
| with the headline in order to force people to click through
| and get those sweet, sweet ad (or subscriber) dollars just
| to find out the "man bites dog" headline was a lie.
| hellotomyrars wrote:
| I have seen multiple instances where the url was a
| significantly less sensationalist title that was
| presumably the authors original headline but an editor
| decided they needed to get the clicks and modified the
| actual article headline. Very funny how laid bare it was.
| ortusdux wrote:
| I've noticed some sites start with a clickbait headline
| and then change it after a few hours to something less
| sensational. I originally thought that they were
| responding to criticism, but I've seen it enough now that
| it seems to be a pre-planned way to game SEO/Socials. You
| can use the wayback machine to check, and I've seen some
| big headlines get revised down 4+ times.
| meltyness wrote:
| Perhaps it would be appropriate to stop the hug of death on the
| whole country, and instead link to a working source with complete
| information.
| sourcecodeplz wrote:
| Tit for tat. You take out nord stream we take out internet. /s?
| peplee wrote:
| I used to live in Vietnam circa 2016, and the joke every other
| month when the internet went out was that some sharks ate the
| cable again. Seems those sharks are still eating good!
| no_protocol wrote:
| I am assuming the "SMW3 cable" mentioned is SEA-ME-WE 3, which
| was mentioned multiple times in "Mother Earth Mother Board" by
| Neal Stephenson (1996, Wired) [0]. It was noted as a competitor
| to FLAG, the cable Stephenson was mainly following.
|
| That seems like a very long lifespan.
|
| [0]: https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/
| lolc wrote:
| Whenever I read of an undersea cable breaking, I worry that the
| next world war has started. Seeing pipelines getting blown up for
| presumed geopolitical reasons hasn't reduced this anxiety.
|
| I know these cables regularly break for ordinary reasons. And
| every time I hope it's just that.
| SilasX wrote:
| Phantom Menace: "A communications disruption can mean only one
| thing: invasion."
| ta1243 wrote:
| Or DNS.
| yreg wrote:
| Many nations DDoS each other all the time outside of scope of a
| war. I can imagine them breaking cables as a similar hostile
| action without an implication of war, especially if it's
| difficult to prove who's the culprit.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| Likely nothing you can do anyway, unless you've already moved
| to patagonia or something.
| rotten wrote:
| Even if another world war isn't starting, think of the data
| pollution from all those leaking bits!
| 6th wrote:
| Nothing to really worry about.
|
| Being fiber optic cables; this will be light pollution.
| forgetfreeman wrote:
| There's no point in being scared when running isn't an option.
| sqeaky wrote:
| Logically, I know you are correct, but that does nothing to
| help.
| forgetfreeman wrote:
| Probably nothing will, but understand I have significant
| sympathy for younger folks who are getting their first real
| taste of zero-sum geopolitics and have nothing to compare
| it to for scale/threat level. For those of us that grew up
| in the 80s the days headlines represent a slow news day
| from our childhood.
| ilamont wrote:
| Not many details in this article, but further north there is
| another threat to undersea cables carrying Internet traffic:
|
| _On Feb. 2, a Chinese fishing vessel sailing close to the Matsu
| Islands severed one of the two cables, which connect the islands
| with Taiwan proper. Then, six days later, a Chinese freighter cut
| the second cable._
|
| https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/02/21/matsu-islands-internet-...
| cld8483 wrote:
| What a truly unfortunate coincidence.
| Animats wrote:
| Is this an effort to force Vietnam to route all their traffic
| via China? Through the Great Firewall?
| sayrer wrote:
| No, they're trying to get to Singapore. Business in Vietnam
| is highly dependent on things like Facebook and Google. I
| was there last year, and have some friends that run
| businesses there.
|
| https://vietnamembassy-usa.org/news/2001/02/vietnam-puts-
| reg...
| noah_buddy wrote:
| If it is intentional, I would guess it's more likely
| general intended to scare Vietnam into accepting island
| territorial claims
| macintux wrote:
| Rather like the Russian elite who keep mysteriously falling
| out of buildings.
| chrisdhoover wrote:
| Defenestration, what was once medieval is hip again.
| [deleted]
| tpmx wrote:
| On the renewed China-Vietnam tensions:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Vietnam_relation.
| ..
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| How do fishing vessels sever internet cables lying on the sea
| floor? Or is this a case of the ships being "fishing vessels"?
| spiritplumber wrote:
| It's at least possible - drag nets can and do touch the
| bottom.
| reaperducer wrote:
| As do crab pots and lobster traps.
| gregshap wrote:
| It's called "bottom trawling" and it's pretty much what it
| sounds like.
| ta1243 wrote:
| Also known as cruising?
| eitland wrote:
| Last fall an internet cable to Svalbard was cut.
|
| AIS recordings showed a Russian fishing vessel traveling many
| times over a vulnerable spot just before it happened.
| codetrotter wrote:
| > traveling many times over a vulnerable spot
|
| I am reminded of this classic Ali G skit
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdOQYlYS2q0
| punnerud wrote:
| And they are spoofing their AIS data frequently. Now they
| control if they are where the AIS send information about, and
| use satellites to help with the location task (because they
| don't trust the AIS from Russian ships).
|
| Could probably be the same with other countries ships
| kokanee wrote:
| Now we have to worry about Russian phishing attacks and
| Russian fishing attacks
| purututu wrote:
| [flagged]
| throwaway742 wrote:
| I don't know it seems plausible to me that it was just an
| accident. There is plenty of legitimate Russian activity in
| that area. I'm no fisherman so someone correct me if I am
| wrong, but I don't think it is that unusual for them to go
| back and forth. It's not surprising that it happened to a
| vulnerable spot, because if it wasn't vulnerable the cable
| wouldn't have broke and no one would be looking into it.
| Finally the Russians have submarines they could use to cut
| the cable without being detected. Who runs a covert op with
| AIS on?
| bjelkeman-again wrote:
| Why do you need a throwaway account to post that?
| oldgradstudent wrote:
| Just ask plainly:
|
| Are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist
| Party of the United States?
| throwaway742 wrote:
| No but I did go to a meeting once. They had doughnuts.
| akiselev wrote:
| That was clearly an FBI honeypot. Real communist meetings
| only serve Engels Food Cake.
| oldgradstudent wrote:
| I once went to a talk at Berkeley's Revolution Cafe.
|
| Fortunately, I doubt if they could topple a suburban HOA.
| [deleted]
| throwaway742 wrote:
| I make these accounts every so often, use them for a
| while, and then make a new one. It is just for general
| privacy reasons.
| Guthur wrote:
| Well it seems many are hell bent on war so it would hardly be
| surprising that more infrastructure is deliberately
| sabotaged.
| brink wrote:
| Title makes it seem like Vietnam is in an internet blackout. Not
| the case apparently, they're still connected and are fine.
| ninesnines wrote:
| But what are the implications of this internet cable being
| down? Will there be a slowing of internet? Is there an easy
| fix?
| toast0 wrote:
| Based on a different article[1] and the submarine cable map
| [2][3][4]... Asia Africa Europe 1 (AAE-1) is currently broken
| between Vietnam and Hong Kong, but presumable is functional
| from Vietnam to the rest of the cable that travels west
| (landings in much of southern asia and a couple points in
| southern Europe). Intra Asia (IA) is broken between Vietnam
| and Singapore, but it also lands in Hong Kong and the
| Philipines. SMW3 lands in a lot of places, but is reported to
| be obsolete.
|
| So, it seems Vietnam no longer has a direct fiber connection
| to Singapore, and has reduced capacity to Hong Kong. There
| will likely be some slowdown as Hong Kong and Singapore are
| both popular locations for data centers.
|
| There's not really an easy fix. Traffic will flow over
| alternate paths, but repair boats need to go out and locate
| the ends of the broken cables, bring them up to the surface,
| splice them back together, and then let them sink again.
|
| Terrestrial cabling tends not to get damaged by ships, and is
| a lot easier to locate for repairs, but it's hard to run it
| over mountains and through forests, and you can't run a
| terrestrial cable from Vietnam to Singapore or the United
| States.
|
| [1] https://en.vietnamplus.vn/internet-slows-as-four-out-of-
| five...
|
| [2] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/asia-
| afric...
|
| [3] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/tata-
| tgn-i...
|
| [4] https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-
| cable/seamewe-3
| wongarsu wrote:
| Or maybe more accurately: they are not fine and have a lot of
| problems with their undersea cables, but assure us that losing
| this specific cable didn't make it any worse than it already
| is.
| latchkey wrote:
| The problems with Vietnam's internet have been going on for a
| long time now.
|
| https://www.computerworld.com/article/2872728/dont-blame-sha...
|
| https://saigoneer.com/saigon-technology/11885-sharks,-anchor...
|
| https://vietnaminsider.vn/apg-undersea-internet-cable-which-...
| hummus_bae wrote:
| [dead]
| v8xi wrote:
| Article gives scant information but found this from 01/30/23:
| https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/internet-slows-to-a-crawl-...
|
| From that article:
|
| Vietnam is currently connected with seven undersea cables: SMW3,
| AAG, IA, APG, AAE-1, SJC2 and ADC. Besides the recent breakage of
| the IA, problems with the AAE, AAG and APG cables that have been
| present since 2022 and early 2023 have yet to be fully resolved.
|
| The SJC2 and the ADC are yet to be officially operational, while
| the SMW3 cable is outdated and about to be decommissioned.
|
| The fact that Vietnam currently only has one fully functional
| undersea cable has caused internet speeds between Vietnam and the
| rest of the world to slow to a crawl.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> about to be decommissioned.
|
| I presume this means disconnected and forgotten about on the
| sea floor. Or do they actually do anything to pull them up? I
| imagine pulling an old cable might be very difficult but I
| don't like things just being left for the sea to deal with.
| There is far to much trash on the seafloor already.
| erentz wrote:
| Typically they're just left there. But every once in a while
| someone will decide it makes sense to acquire the cable for
| cheap, pull it up, and re-use it somewhere else that doesn't
| have high bandwidth requirements but would still benefit from
| getting subsea connectivity. Seen this for Pacific and some
| Caribbean islands.
| jagged-chisel wrote:
| I would think pulling up a cable would be detrimental to any
| ecosystem that built on and around the cable. I would not be
| surprised to learn that ecosystems were affected negatively
| when the cables were laid, too, so I think we probably want
| to limit damage by letting them lie there.
| uoaei wrote:
| Depends on what kinds of substances are present there, that
| will leach out over time.
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Steel, rubber, and glass? Doesn't seem so bad.
| justinclift wrote:
| Future archaeologists may find "the fossilised remains of
| continent spanning worms!".
| [deleted]
| v3ss0n wrote:
| That's why internet is extremely slow here, I am in Myanmar
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| Internet infrastructure in Myanmar is still relatively
| underdeveloped, which is why it's slow. These cables are not
| heavily used for routing your traffic typically.
| orangepurple wrote:
| That's probably not why you are having slow internet. If you
| hear about cable cuts in the Malacca Strait _THEN_ you can
| worry.
|
| Myanmar is not directly connected to Vietnam via sea cables
| specifically. The major connections to the outside world via
| the sea are:
|
| https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/seamewe-5
|
| https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/asia-afric...
|
| https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/seamewe-3
|
| https://www.submarinecablemap.com/submarine-cable/singapore-...
| [deleted]
| pancrufty wrote:
| Myanmar has its own cables:
| https://www.submarinenetworks.com/stations/asia/myanmar
|
| Additionally the cable in question comes from Europe, so the
| Vietnam break shouldn't affect Myanmar (which also has direct
| access to it) https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SEA-ME-
| WE-3-Route.pn...
| lawrenceyan wrote:
| Starlink is the future here right? You can't sever a satellite
| link like you can with a cable.
|
| Well, actually I guess you technically can. But it's definitely
| way more difficult.
| acuozzo wrote:
| You can lower the SNR to the point at which it's unusable.
|
| A system of distributed, hidden, state-sanctioned jammers doing
| C&C over a unaffected back channel would be roughly equivalent
| to "cutting an undersea cable", I believe.
| actionfromafar wrote:
| Shower(-ish) thought: such cables are lasting and obvious
| artefacts for the future. These cables will stay where they are
| for eons. These Starlink satellites are like dragonflies. Once
| they are no longer continuosly replenished by new launches,
| they will disappear.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-02-22 23:00 UTC)