[HN Gopher] AdNauseam - clicking ads so you don't have to
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       AdNauseam - clicking ads so you don't have to
        
       Author : notpushkin
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2023-02-21 20:05 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (adnauseam.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (adnauseam.io)
        
       | Varqu wrote:
       | This is outright fraud and I would not be surprised if the author
       | receives a cease and desist from Google and likes.
       | 
       | While I am full for adblockers (your choice not to be exposed to
       | ads), this extension is designed to intentionally harm others
       | people business and cause them monetary loss which is considered
       | a crime in many jurisdictions.
       | 
       | To the mods of HN: why do you allow such grey-zone tools to be
       | published here?
        
       | pawelmurias wrote:
       | Doesn't this make you a lot more tracked by showing the ads
       | owners which sites you visit?
        
       | prophesi wrote:
       | I've been using the extension on Firefox for years. Their browser
       | context menu for blocking individual HTML elements has been
       | really handy for the more aggressive AD-heavy sites, though I
       | sometimes miss uMatrix's fine-grained controls.
       | 
       | On the plus side, I can't recall the last time I needed to
       | disable the extension to get a site to work; I'm wondering if
       | it's due to the ad networks still being able to ping back despite
       | the element remaining hidden?
        
         | prophesi wrote:
         | And if anyone's interested in this extension, you may also like
         | this one: https://www.trackmenot.io/
         | 
         | It sends bogus search requests in the background. And it seems
         | like it works as intended, as the extension is banned entirely
         | from Google's Chrome store.
        
       | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
       | I never thought I'd be installing something that describes itself
       | like:
       | 
       | > AdNauseam serves as a means of amplifying users' discontent
       | 
       | But here I go.
       | 
       | Edit: It would seem that brave blocks ads in a way that prevents
       | adnauseum from clicking them first, bummer. (followed
       | instructions here:
       | https://github.com/dhowe/AdNauseam/wiki/Install-AdNauseam-on...)
       | 
       | Edit: hmm, I can't seem to get the number to go above 0 for brave
       | or chrome.
        
       | lumb63 wrote:
       | Ads suck. I block them universally. I understand the desire to
       | "get back at the man", and I don't begrudge anyone for doing so.
       | But we have to ask ourselves, what's the real path forward, away
       | from ads?
       | 
       | If a different model existed where users could pay for sites, I'm
       | confident some would use it. I'm also confident many more would
       | not use it. I expect a lot of users unwittingly want to be able
       | to browse the web ad-free, for free, subsidized by the tech-
       | illiterate and those too lazy to block ads.
       | 
       | We desperately need a better model for funding the internet. I'm
       | aware of the work Brave did, but it doesn't solve the problem of
       | the internet being funded by ads. It instead brings users into
       | the loop. Donations might work, and the "ad-free" subscription
       | tier products seem sustainable. However, at scale, paying to
       | waive ads on an individual site-by-site basis seems absurd.
       | 
       | Does anyone have any other ideas?
        
         | Night_Thastus wrote:
         | No ideas, but I agree.
         | 
         | I personally view all forms of advertisement as a parasite or
         | cancer on our eyes and ears. People disregard it as not that
         | important, but I feel like it's way more impactful than most
         | people think. It's constantly invading our spaces of work,
         | casual enjoyment, transit, etc. It's a mental tax we're
         | constantly paying.
        
         | chongli wrote:
         | _Does anyone have any other ideas?_
         | 
         | Public funding for a noncommercial web. Websites that sell
         | things have no problem paying for themselves. The noncommercial
         | web would be a place for people to socialize, share media from
         | their lives, and enjoy their hobbies.
         | 
         | Amateur radio is noncommercial. We should be able to have a
         | similar regime on the web. It shouldn't even really be that
         | expensive to host. With peer to peer protocols there should be
         | no need for paid hosting companies. Government could mandate
         | that ISPs facilitate self hosting. With IPv6 every device
         | should have static, publicly-routable IPs.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | So, government intervention then? I think that I dislike that
           | no less than I dislike the current status quo.
        
             | mattigames wrote:
             | Everything needed for you to post that comment had to be
             | heavily subsidized by your local government, almost every
             | single piece of infrastructure involved, even the protocol
             | itself was subsidized by the US government. It reminds me
             | of that great quote: "Libertarians are like house cats,
             | they naively believe in their fierceness and independence
             | while being fully dependant in a system they don't
             | understand or appreciate".
        
             | prophesi wrote:
             | The actual status quo is Big Tech & ISP lobbyists having
             | their way with any government intervention or lack thereof.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | kawogi wrote:
         | I'd love to see a web standard for small donations via the
         | browser. Whenever I see an article that helped me with a
         | problem or was entertaining to read, I'd like to donate a small
         | amount for it.
         | 
         | At the moment I only have the following options:
         | 
         | - clicking on ads on that page, to hopefully intirectly
         | generate income for the author (but more likely will cause some
         | profiling AI to wreak havoc on my reputation)
         | 
         | - having a paid account upfront, which is usually connected
         | with the entire site and not this specific article
         | 
         | - create accounts for numerous payment and donation systems
         | (patreon, paypal, buymeacoffee, ...)
         | 
         | - manually reach out to the author and ask them for their bank
         | connection.
         | 
         | For me the perfect solution would be a browser-plugin, where I
         | click on "Donate for this Article", enter an amount and maybe
         | an optional comment and click "ok".
        
           | mickotron wrote:
           | Isn't Brave doing this?
        
         | itake wrote:
         | I worked at an ad search company for local businesses. This
         | question was raised at all hands: what if we provided a paid
         | ad-free experience?
         | 
         | The answer was simply: we earn $35/mo per user from ads. Do you
         | think people pay that much for an ad-free experience? Our most
         | valuable users might can afford that fee, but we earn way more
         | from them.
        
           | BizarroLand wrote:
           | Plus, how many ad companies are there? How many different
           | people would we have to pay to browse without ads?
           | 
           | How many companies, once the ad revenue dries up, would
           | charge for content? How many would charge for content AND
           | heavily lace their websites with ads?
           | 
           | How expensive would the internet be if we had to directly pay
           | for every website we wanted to use?
           | 
           | Personally, I think the internet is worth the cost of access.
           | I don't think sites are worth an additional premium on top of
           | that.
        
         | narag wrote:
         | _If a different model existed where users could pay for
         | sites..._
         | 
         | The devil is in the details.
         | 
         | "If a different model existed where users could pay for tv
         | shows..." and then Netflix, HBO, Amazon Prime, etc. came.
         | 
         | I subscribed a bunch, the cancelled. Why? Different reasons,
         | but in general: I wasn't able to really vote with my wallet.
         | Shows that I liked very much got cancelled or, more often,
         | degenerated horribly in subsequent seasons.
         | 
         | So any kind of fine-grained payment would be greatly
         | appreciated. Not only for web content, but also for any kind of
         | media.
         | 
         | I guess it would come with its own set of problems, trying too
         | hard to content the public. But I feel that's better than the
         | current situation, more on the top-down educating the unwashed
         | masses.
        
         | nugget wrote:
         | When ads are relevant and contextual enough, they become as
         | good as or better than content. The problem isn't advertising.
         | The problem is bad, mediocre, even malicious ads and ad
         | formats.
         | 
         | The proliferation of terrible ads and ad formats fueled the
         | rise of adblock. Adblock is how users fight back.
         | 
         | Adblock companies could collectively start to influence what
         | ads are allowed through, but most attempts at this have been
         | corrupted in the usual and predictable ways.
        
           | adamrezich wrote:
           | I used to think this way too, back in like 2009, but the
           | years since then have changed my mind back around to
           | completely hating all advertising. when was the last time you
           | saw a relevant, useful, unobnoxious, unobtrusive, just really
           | great ad? I can't remember the last time I saw one.
        
             | dotancohen wrote:
             | I saw one for some tshirt company within the last year.
             | Really nice, well-cut shirts.
             | 
             | But their prices were ridiculous.
        
             | stevesearer wrote:
             | I think the ads we run on https://officesnapshots.com are
             | good quality (we sell and host them).
             | 
             | We have traditional banners as well as micro ads where we
             | highlight and link to the specific products found in the
             | office design project photos we publish. The latter are
             | very helpful for designers in the industry as they are 100%
             | contextual.
        
         | prettyStandard wrote:
         | I think brave has a good model, but normal cryptocurrency
         | shenanigans taint the possibility.
        
         | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
         | I imagine a scheme that would socialize the burden of hosting
         | and create a revenue stream for content creators. The revenue
         | would come from those who paid up front for access and then
         | didn't pull their weight re: hosting.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | 0. content-addressed data (e.g. IPFS) and a web of trust where
         | trust means "not a bot, not a malicious human"
         | 
         | 1. participants have a team number (0-255)
         | 
         | 2. either participants are running a node, or they have a
         | provider running one on their behalf.
         | 
         | 3. every time your node requests data from another node by CID,
         | it hashes the data twice (to get something other than the CID)
         | and divides by 256. If the remainder is your team number, your
         | node pins that data for a month. Otherwise it pins the data for
         | 24h.
         | 
         | 4. randomly, the nodes check to see if their neighbors are
         | actually pinning the data they're supposed to, and make a
         | naughty/nice list.
         | 
         | 5. at the beginning of the month, participants put $10 into a
         | smart contract, unless they have money left over from last
         | month
         | 
         | 6. at the end of the month, your node directs the contract to
         | split $5 among the top 50% best citizens (re: pinning), paying
         | nothing to the bottom 50%
         | 
         | 7. your node also has kept track of which content you've
         | requested. If you haven't +'d or -'d any content it just splits
         | the other $5 evenly among the users who created the content
         | that you requested. Otherwise it splits it according to your
         | +'s and -'s.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | You can make money if your node is reliably helpful to its
         | neighbors, or if you're a content creator. On the other hand,
         | if you don't care to run a node, the contract ends up at $0 for
         | you at the end of the month and you can just pay $10 again next
         | month if you want access to the content. If you run a node but
         | your internet connection is unreliable (or your node is
         | offline), maybe you end up paying $8 per month because for 80%
         | of your neighbors you were in the bottom 50% on the
         | naughty/nice list
         | 
         | Probably there's also reward money for people who sniff out bad
         | actors and cause them to be excluded from the web of trust on
         | the next go-around.
         | 
         | In summary: reciprocity, with a little $ on the line to keep
         | people honest. And since power corrupts, so it can't be managed
         | by a corporate entity since the corruption would kick in before
         | it got big enough to be "the" go-to place for content on the
         | web--it's got to be a protocol without privileged roles.
        
         | vouaobrasil wrote:
         | I have a different idea. I think ads can still exist, but in
         | the form of more personalized sponsorships. For example, a
         | company can send a person a product to try and then they can
         | review it. That type of word of mouth is a bit less impersonal
         | than a random ad and maybe we can even have models of trust so
         | that the content creator is known for being objective. An
         | example is Julian Krause on YouTube, who reviews audio gear.
         | His reviews are so good and I feel he is very trustworthy based
         | on what he says.
         | 
         | In my mind, if companies get a few of their products out there
         | and get people to talk about them, it's better than random
         | advertising in several ways. The only downside to companies is
         | that it doesn't rake in as much profit, but I think they can
         | still be profitable, just not as much as they are.
         | 
         | But then again, it'd be much better if we had a society where
         | people bought things only if they really needed them, not if
         | they are assaulted with ads left right and center. In my
         | opinion, such a model is more along the lines of people buying
         | things that really improve their life, rather than accumulating
         | stuff because it seems in vogue.
         | 
         | One consequence is that advertising companies like Google and
         | Facebook will be vastly less profitable, and that's okay. Too
         | much wealth is concentrated to them anyway, and their employees
         | are vastly overpaid in comparison to the value they actually
         | deliver to society.
        
       | missedthecue wrote:
       | Seems like this is very straightforward for any half competent ad
       | network to filter out. Very chaotic idea though.
        
         | LadyCailin wrote:
         | Perhaps, but then they have to spend time and money doing that,
         | only for their ads to still not be shown.
        
       | geek_at wrote:
       | I tried AdNauseam for a few days but for some reason it broke so
       | many sites. Sites stopped loading for me and I had to uninstall
       | it.
       | 
       | Like the idea though
        
       | dymk wrote:
       | I didn't have to anyways
        
       | soared wrote:
       | Similar thing I made a landing page for but never built to take
       | utms from other users and attach them to your links, break GA
       | sessions, etc to make your traffic adversarial and attempt to
       | make a sites GA data not so good.
       | 
       | https://hello-kill.github.io/
        
       | Beaver117 wrote:
       | Extremely based, everyone should install this
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related. Others?
       | 
       |  _AdNauseam - clicking ads so you don 't have to_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25043165 - Nov 2020 (11
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _AdNauseam: Browser extension to fight back against tracking by
       | ad networks_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20048216 -
       | May 2019 (63 comments)
       | 
       |  _AdNauseam - clicking ads so you don 't have to_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19278936 - March 2019 (164
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Pale Moon blocks AdNauseam extension_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15112524 - Aug 2017 (246
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _AdNauseam - Clicking Ads So You Don 't Have To_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15109251 - Aug 2017 (174
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _AdNauseam Banned from the Google Web Store_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13327228 - Jan 2017 (329
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _AdNauseam: Fight Back Against Advertising Networks and Privacy
       | Abuse_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13222733 - Dec 2016
       | (276 comments)
       | 
       |  _AdNauseam Browser Extension: Clicking Ads So You Don 't Have
       | To_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10611594 - Nov 2015
       | (72 comments)
       | 
       |  _Ad blocker that clicks on the ads_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8515398 - Oct 2014 (238
       | comments)
        
       | iseanstevens wrote:
       | Love this. They want clicks? Give them clicks. Gradually bring
       | the value of "ad impressions" to zero.
        
       | LadyCailin wrote:
       | Been using this for a while, and I forget about it just as much
       | as I did when using ublock (which is what this uses under the
       | hood). I think I've had it installed for 2 months, and my ad
       | spend is calculated to be about $400. Not bad.
       | 
       | It feels like the nuclear option, but the absolute lack of
       | respect that advertisers seem to have for me has gone entirely
       | too far, and it's nice to be able to punch back in my own small
       | little way.
        
       | bravoetch wrote:
       | We need an extension that filters out hn submissions like this
       | one. They come around once a year-ish and they're not news,
       | they're just artificially boosted content.
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | Artificially boosted how?
        
         | Syntonicles wrote:
         | They are boosted by people like me, who haven't seen it before.
         | People on social media have this strange notion that we're all
         | a perfect bloom filter. I don't have the time or energy to keep
         | up with tens of thousands of posts per year, and new users are
         | coming all the time. Reposts are inevitable.
         | 
         | A personalized bloom filter may be useful. That shouldn't be
         | hard to implement in either JavaScript or Emacs Lisp.
        
         | doodlesdev wrote:
         | From HN guidelines:                  Please don't post
         | insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading,
         | foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is
         | usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email
         | hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.
         | Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a
         | story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don't feed egregious
         | comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag, please
         | don't also comment that you did.
        
       | werds wrote:
       | no marketer optimizes for clicks, they optimize for conversions.
       | 
       | so unless this bot is going to go onto the advertisers site and
       | purchase something, which can then be attributed back to the
       | viewed impression, then this will just be ignored by ad tech like
       | any other bot click
        
         | lethologica wrote:
         | It's still costing them per click though, is it not?
        
           | jefftk wrote:
           | Not necessarily: all ad networks try to filter out spammy
           | clicks before billing, and some advertisers work on a cost-
           | per-action [1] basis.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_per_action
        
         | doodlesdev wrote:
         | That's exactly why the extension works. Imagine paying for
         | advertisements thousands of dollars just so that people keep
         | autoclicking to cost you a few cents out of spite. The
         | advertiser loses money but doesn't get conversions, Google gets
         | the advertisers money but loses them as a customer in the long
         | term. If everyone did this then the model would become
         | unsustainable and we would be finally forced to find an
         | alternative.
         | 
         | Whether that's the right to solve the issue or not is another
         | matter altogether, but the fundamentals of this extension are
         | sound.
        
           | jefftk wrote:
           | You're missing that ad networks can detect and exclude these
           | spammy clicks. And on many networks advertisers can choose to
           | be charged on a per-conversion basis.
        
             | meghan_rain wrote:
             | Google claims this because their entire business model
             | relies on people believing it but is it actually true?
        
               | jefftk wrote:
               | I used to work on ads at Google, and knew folks who
               | worked on invalid traffic detection. They seemed to spend
               | most of their time on much more subtle sorts of problems,
               | so given how simple AdNauseum is I'd be surprised if they
               | had trouble filtering it out.
        
         | marginalia_nu wrote:
         | I sometimes click ads, go through almost through the entire
         | funnel, but bail at the last minute. It's very funny.
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-21 23:02 UTC)