[HN Gopher] Hugging Face and AWS partner to make AI more accessible
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       Hugging Face and AWS partner to make AI more accessible
        
       Author : rjtavares
       Score  : 83 points
       Date   : 2023-02-21 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (huggingface.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (huggingface.co)
        
       | 1024core wrote:
       | Next headline: HugingFace agrees to be acquired by Amazon.
        
       | WhatsName wrote:
       | That's unfortunate. I liked hugging face. Could have been the
       | next github for ML.
       | 
       | Hope the push to the AWS walled garden doesn't eat them alive.
        
         | chipgap98 wrote:
         | I don't really understand how this announcement will prevent
         | them from becoming the next github for ML.
         | 
         | This is about making it easier to run huggingface models in
         | AWS.
        
           | nkozyra wrote:
           | That's how it starts, isn't it?
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | >becoming the next github for ML.
           | 
           | Considering github digested all the open source code into a
           | proprietary AI...
        
             | Casteil wrote:
             | One AI to rule them all
             | 
             | (sorry)
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | There's nothing to indicate this means they will be exclusive
         | to Amazon. Only that they'll add some integrations or even just
         | pricing consideration for AWS customers.
        
         | babelfish wrote:
         | Not an acquisition, just a product
        
           | burna_aws_acct wrote:
           | ... all the way to slaughter.
        
         | burna_aws_acct wrote:
         | Same. Pretty bummed. I like HuggingFace, but there's no such
         | thing as "partnership" when Amazon's involved.
         | 
         | Amazon has a clear reputation of "brand killer" (e.g., Zappos,
         | IMDb, 6pm, WholeFoods, ComiXology, GoodReads, Roomba, Ring,
         | Eufy, Woot, Sleep Jar, Fabric.com, Shopbop, Graphiq). Very much
         | "if you can't beat'em, eat'em," although I sometimes wonder if
         | it's negligence more than strategy. After all, their own
         | services don't even work half the time (e.g., Prime Video and
         | Music, Alexa), and its retail site is overrun with fake goods
         | with fake reviews.
         | 
         | Good luck, HuggingFace. You'll need it, along with an active
         | team of lawyers and a backup repo in Azure.
         | 
         | Edit: Adding additional sentiment below.
         | 
         | I desperately wish what I said above wasn't true. I am in no
         | way faulting employees who work(-ed) on these projects with
         | best of intentions. Persons who have endured understand, the
         | problem is above, not necessarily below. Again I will strongly
         | encourage HuggingFace to have backups and lawyers. Please don't
         | give everything away; there is no good faith at present.
        
           | zachlatta wrote:
           | I believe the examples you're highlighting were acquisitions,
           | not partnerships. This seems more along the lines of
           | https://stripe.com/newsroom/news/amazon-and-stripe
        
             | burna_aws_acct wrote:
             | I will say this. Many acquisitions begin as partnerships.
             | 
             | Shall we begin to unearth the "partnership" with Stripe,
             | and its impact to customers? Perhaps a necessary discussion
             | worth continuing elsewhere, e.g.,
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34863530...
        
       | nothrowaways wrote:
       | The world is at war- Amazon burning compute resources on hugging
       | face to fight MSFT.
       | 
       | Same way as US doing with missiles, if you know what I mean.
       | 
       | Jokes aside, hugging face is the real open AI in the space and
       | desperately needs this.
        
       | derbOac wrote:
       | Ideally I'd like to see more work on decentralized AI/DL methods.
       | Maybe that's out there (I should dig into it more than I have)
       | but either way I think it needs more attention.
        
       | Sophira wrote:
       | I don't see any mention of what Amazon are actually doing for
       | this partnership. other than providing the same services they
       | provide for everyone.
       | 
       | This reads like "Amazon gave us a bunch of money for us to use
       | and promote AWS."
        
         | karmasimida wrote:
         | Unless Google or MSFR buying huggingface upfront, this is going
         | to eventually make sure AWS be the fist class citizen for
         | future huggingface initiatives
         | 
         | Including all open source models
        
         | burna_aws_acct wrote:
         | This is correct. All of a sudden, we'll see "Amazon state-of-
         | the-art Natural Understanding systems paving the way [blah blah
         | blah]"... Umm... No. It's HuggingFace. And just like that,
         | HuggingFace fades away; its well-earned recognition reassigned
         | to Amazon, by Amazon. It's not a possibility; it's a certainty.
         | 
         | Shout out to Amazon though. People keep falling for the
         | "partnership promise." The wax must be hella poetic.
        
         | brianjking wrote:
         | and that's almost certainly what's happened, lol.
        
       | locknessness wrote:
       | Disclaimer: I used to work for AWS ML
       | 
       | Buried in the press release is the announcement that there will
       | be a push to bring up models on the AWS Trainium accelerator.
       | 
       | In the name of "ML democratization" this agreement could help
       | shift tides away from the Nvidia HW + SW monopoly. Amazon (trn1)
       | and Google (TPU) are little guys compared to Nvidia.
       | 
       | The book may already be written. Pytorch is heavily biased
       | towards libraries that are customized for cuda/Nvidia (see FSDP).
       | This leaves the other HW folks playing SW catch-up, with everyone
       | rallying behind the open source XLA compiler.
       | 
       | It's too bad the press release didn't touch on these points and
       | used cliche rhetoric instead.
        
       | arcatech wrote:
       | Funny how both OpenAI and now Hugging Face promise "openness" for
       | their AI tools so that they're "accessible to everyone" and then
       | both partner with big tech companies who are trying to control
       | and monetize as much as they can.
        
         | axegon_ wrote:
         | There's a world of difference between OpenAI and Hugging Face.
         | OpenAI simply has the word "open" in their name, while there is
         | nothing open about them. Hugging Face on the other hand
         | deserves a ton of credit and praise in that regard. It's
         | perfectly fine for a company of that nature to partner with a
         | big player(whether that be Microsoft or AWS or Google or
         | whatever): infrastructure is not free, nor is it cheap. Of
         | course AWS and Microsoft have a lot to gain from this, which is
         | also fine for that exact reason. So long as the community
         | continues to exist and have the ability to use, extend and
         | participate, I don't see anything wrong.
         | 
         | Moreover, Hugging Face has made it stupid simple for anyone to
         | use. So Microsoft, AWS or Google, all I can say is bravo,
         | Hugging Face and thanks for your work.
        
         | enoreyes wrote:
         | Hugging Face internally has a lot of very strong believers
         | (including the exec team) in open source + decentralized
         | approach towards AI as the only safe and productive way
         | forward. HF is ostensibly the only place to find deep+broad
         | resources for open source DL and transformers/diffusers are the
         | libraries du jour of open DL.
         | 
         | Compute is really important for AI, and having a cloud provider
         | align themselves with an organization which is genuinely trying
         | to be "Open" AI is I think a positive step forward.
        
           | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
           | Leadership is fungible,everyone has a price, and words are
           | innevitably wind.
           | 
           | I would consider this a solid step in the direction agaisnt
           | why huggingface is actually useful.
        
             | enoreyes wrote:
             | Not disagreeing with your first point, but as I see it -
             | this only enables HF to continue to spend money on making
             | good open source tooling + doing research on open
             | alternatives to closed source LLMs (something sorely
             | needed), while opening them up to more enterprise customers
             | who primarily use AWS.
             | 
             | FWIW I am an ML engineer there (maybe should have disclosed
             | earlier) and I feel pretty optimistic about the
             | opportunities this will enable for the open source
             | community. Maybe with the visibility into the closed door
             | discussions I have a more positive attitude, or maybe I'm
             | being naive.
             | 
             | Time will tell!
        
         | zitterbewegung wrote:
         | Huggingface started off as GitHub for machine learning and
         | anyone can download the models there. OpenAI has everything
         | behind a black box where you don't exactly know what actually
         | happening.
         | 
         | Then to monetize they host the models you want to use at a cost
         | which would be a good investment for Amazon but you can still
         | self host using their libraries.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | synergy20 wrote:
       | does AWS provide a google colab alike environment, colab is now
       | sign-in then using it, AWS you have to jump so many hoops to
       | start using it, could be easier to access.
        
         | amrrs wrote:
         | Check out AWS Sage maker studio Lab
        
           | SamSkjord wrote:
           | And when you delete the Sagemaker domain, remember to also
           | delete everything associated with it under the Lifecycle
           | configuration... that was an expensive weekend
        
             | synergy20 wrote:
             | isn't sagemaker studio lab fully free?
             | 
             | it's said colab is easier to use, but sagemaker studio lab
             | provides better hardware underneath.
        
         | mark_l_watson wrote:
         | I agree that Google Colab is so much nicer to use, but if you
         | already use AWS, have accounts and access control already
         | setup, the SageMaker Studio is OK to use also.
         | 
         | It is usually easy to take existing Jupiter notebooks and run
         | them on either platform, assuming data is easily accessible.
        
           | synergy20 wrote:
           | Thanks. Not aware of this until now. Just registered, seems
           | cool.
           | 
           | Trying to compare it with colab on the freemium plan, I guess
           | they must be close to each other(how long you can run a
           | sesssion,how much cpu/gpu resource you can use for free,etc)
        
       | shashanoid wrote:
       | Lame. Everyone keep getting sold to the same shitpile at the end
       | of the day.
        
         | elforce002 wrote:
         | Well, with the current climate it's not far fetched to try to
         | milk something out of it and cash out before the ship starts
         | sinking.
        
       | inductive_magic wrote:
       | My startup computes everything locally. We use our own hardware.
       | 
       | If we'll ever get to the point where we need serious dynamic
       | scaling, sure, we'll use cloud-tooling. But for now, cloud-
       | compute has zero alignment with our vision and strategy. AWS is
       | powerful and surely has its place, but "run it on Bezos'
       | hardware" doesn't exactly spark confidence in "open" or
       | "democratized" AI progress.
       | 
       | One thing I love about Huggingface is that I can simply download
       | a model and do stuff with it. Iirc, I couldn't download some
       | models and was instead incentivized to use Sage Maker (maybe only
       | for finetuning? I don't recall exactly) recently.
       | 
       | I deeply hope that this partnership doesn't become a "to use
       | models hosted by huggingface, you must use AWS". The fact that
       | this announcement reeks of business speak ("Together, the two
       | leaders aim to accelerate [...]") leaves a bad feeling in my
       | mouth.
        
       | alexb_ wrote:
       | Did I miss a memo somewhere that said "every single AI related
       | announcement must pretend as if you are bringing peace to the
       | world and solving all forms of inequality forever"? I mean come
       | on, "democratize machine learning"? Even the langauge of
       | "accessible" which is constantly used by AI people over and over
       | is just absurd.
       | 
       | It feels like whoever wrote this mashed together Social Justice
       | Words until they got something intelligable. Example:
       | 
       | >"The future of AI is here, but it's not evenly distributed,"
       | said Clement Delangue, CEO of Hugging Face. "Accessibility and
       | transparency are the keys to sharing progress and creating tools
       | to use these new capabilities wisely and responsibly. Amazon
       | SageMaker and AWS-designed chips will enable our team and the
       | larger machine learning community to convert the latest research
       | into openly reproducible models that anyone can build on."
        
         | Zetice wrote:
         | I agree completely with this sentiment. I don't want to create
         | great new works of literature, I just wanna label some text
         | with metadata and learn the bare minimum about some random tech
         | I'm supposed to use next quarter.
         | 
         | I predict the next year will be companies promising AI will fix
         | everything wrong about my life, and approximately zero will
         | deliver. The companies who will do well will be the companies
         | who don't even advertise their AI use, but incorporate it into
         | their existing value prop.
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | Huggingface has done more to democratize ML than any other
         | entity in our field except maybe the folks making sklearn and
         | other high profile tools. They get to use this kind of
         | language, stop critisizing them for it as though they aren't
         | really the only bastion of openness we have. They really are
         | the only one's doing what they do.
        
         | minimaxir wrote:
         | > I mean come on, "democratize machine learning"?
         | 
         | That slogan made more sense back when Hugging Face first
         | launched in 2019 and training models was prohibitively
         | expensive and required sorting through poor model training
         | codebases, but nowadays it's less applicable. (cost/efficiency
         | of GPUs is _much_ better and lots of higher level libraries,
         | including Hugging Face 's transformers, reduces a lot of the
         | pain)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
         | I get what you're saying but I'd put hugging face as an
         | exception. When I read democratizing access, I see a company
         | making models freely available to the masses who do not
         | necessarily have the resources to train them themselves. Is it
         | solving global poverty or hunger? No of course not. Is it
         | helping to tear down the ivory tower of academia or fill in the
         | moats surrounding megacorps? Yes.
         | 
         | But now they're just another cog in a megacorp..
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-21 23:02 UTC)