[HN Gopher] Pyrrhonism
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       Pyrrhonism
        
       Author : benbreen
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2023-02-21 02:47 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | refuse wrote:
       | "Belief is the death of thought"
       | 
       | Robert Anton Wilson
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ggm wrote:
         | Did the Fnord-inventor believe this, or did he have a rational
         | basis? If its an axiom, its analogous to a belief in as much as
         | it's a given. If its a sound bite, he's handwaving.
        
           | refuse wrote:
           | Sounds like a decent thought to me.
        
         | michaelsbradley wrote:
         | "Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit
         | rises to the contemplation of truth..."
         | 
         | https://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/d...
        
           | rcoveson wrote:
           | That's like Jeff Bezos saying "one-click shopping and reason
           | are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the
           | contemplation of efficiency".
           | 
           | In the metaphorical "body" of human "contemplation of truth",
           | reason is the cerebrum and faith is the appendix.
        
             | michaelsbradley wrote:
             | Naive realism?
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
        
               | rcoveson wrote:
               | From the perspective of somebody that believes in
               | (literal) books full of things that are--in whole or in
               | part--fabrications, _of course_ realism looks naive.
               | 
               | This flamewar is ancient and tired, like your dwindling
               | religion of doomsday cultists and scientist killers.
        
             | marcusverus wrote:
             | Disagree. The appendix is (supposedly) useless, but faith
             | does bring some utility, just in an oblique way. Faith
             | drives common belief systems, which drive social cohesion.
        
             | HKH2 wrote:
             | In that metaphorical body, what is the amygdala?
        
               | aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA wrote:
               | Little known fact: amygdalae come in pairs.
        
               | marcusverus wrote:
               | Ego.
        
       | blockloop wrote:
       | Philosophy has a long history of seeking Truth (capital T). Most
       | notably skyrocketed by Descartes who was a mathmetician and
       | believed that we can arrive at the Truth of everything like we
       | can with mathematics. If you're really interested in what
       | Pyrrhonism means then I suggest you don't brush it off as
       | "radical skepticism" because that's not what it is nor is it
       | about "trusting evidence" per se. Pyrrhonism is _suspending_
       | Truth claims due to _lack of sufficient evidence_. It is a direct
       | response to inductive reasoning, which is what most people use
       | every day. Inductive reasoning is the probability of a conclusion
       | being correct is adequate evidence to support the argument. This
       | is the basis for most Philosophical discussions and claims and
       | generally how Truth claims work. However, reasoning isn't "common
       | sense" nor is it something you pick up by skimming a single out-
       | of-context wikipedia page and inductive reasoning is only one of
       | several forms of reasoning. Hume was one of the most prominent
       | philosophers who further expressed the problems of induction most
       | notably the idea that the future will resemble the past. In other
       | words, if I flip a coin 20 times and it lands on heads every
       | time, empirical evidence and inductive inference would tell me
       | that there is a 100% chance that it will land on heads the 21st
       | flip because "every time we flip this coin it lands on heads",
       | but in reality the 21st flip also has a 50% chance of landing on
       | heads, despite the fact that it has been 100% heads in the past.
       | Not to mention, I haven't told you whether or not the coin is
       | rigged, has two heads, etc. The point of Pyrrhonism is that
       | _there is always some unknown unknowns with Truth claims_ so when
       | it is safer to assume a neutral position, do so. This is what it
       | is like to be open-minded. It's not something you can just do
       | without spending time studying logic and reason (fundamentals of
       | philosophy.)
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | I've heard this described as 'radical skepticism' - ultimately it
       | implies you can't trust the evidence of your own senses, which
       | means in turn you can't trust the information relayed by any
       | device that extends sight or hearing, such as microscopes and
       | telescopes, or the printed word, and so on.
       | 
       | It's a bit nonsensical, although not entirely worth rejecting.
       | Looking for self-consistency (a fundamental feature of axiom-
       | based mathematics) and the agreement of multiple lines of inquiry
       | into things like historical events or scientific conclusions is a
       | good idea, and serves to give some confidence that reality is
       | what we perceive it to be.
       | 
       | I'm not sure what the opposite of Pyrrhonism is called, but blind
       | faith in the pronouncements of kings and priests was never all
       | that good of an idea, and even one's immediate sensory
       | impressions are not always 100% reliable.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | A nonzero subset of flat earthers probably fall under this
       | umbrella.
        
         | hprotagonist wrote:
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f8DQSM-b2cc
         | 
         | sadly a video link but the general idea is there.
        
         | hummus_bae wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | w0m wrote:
       | I've always (... tried to) adhere to the mantra, "The only way to
       | guarantee you're wrong in any given situation, is to not consider
       | that you may be.".
       | 
       | A little more fatalist maybe; but I try to stay honest.
        
       | alxmng wrote:
       | You can't be wrong if you don't ever believe you're right :)
       | Maybe.
        
       | anonymouskimmer wrote:
       | It might be a good or bad philosophy, I really don't know.
        
       | dtagames wrote:
       | We need more of this philosophy today.
        
         | hprotagonist wrote:
         | do we? i'm not sure you're right ...
        
       | DavidPiper wrote:
       | Reminds me of: "Be open-minded, but don't be so open-minded that
       | your brains fall out."
        
         | MichaelZuo wrote:
         | This quote implies that there exists a place for the brain to
         | fall into.
         | 
         | Which might not be the case for a pyrrhonist or fallibist.
        
       | lordleft wrote:
       | An alternative to (and descendant of) this school is Academic
       | Skepticism, best exemplified by the thought of Cicero. It
       | combines some of the best of Stoic ethics with a probabilistic
       | epistemology that rejects certitudes but still allows us to act
       | and move forward in the world.
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | Wir mussen wissen. Wir werden wissen.
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-21 23:03 UTC)