[HN Gopher] Linux 6.2: The first mainstream Linux kernel for App...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Linux 6.2: The first mainstream Linux kernel for Apple M1 chips
       arrives
        
       Author : CrankyBear
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2023-02-20 21:43 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.zdnet.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.zdnet.com)
        
       | POiNTx wrote:
       | Not too familiar with this but does this mean that eventually
       | Asahi Linux will be obsolete? Is Asahi a forked Linux kernel and
       | the work will eventually be merged right into the main Linux
       | Kernel?
        
         | ccouzens wrote:
         | Yes, check out the second entry in the FAQ
         | 
         | https://asahilinux.org/about/
         | 
         | Their work goes beyond the kernel. For example Mesa (the user
         | space part of the Linux GPU stack), boot tooling and
         | installation tooling.
         | 
         | And of course the incredible amount of reverse engineering.
        
         | uncletaco wrote:
         | That's the end goal.
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | And the original plan, but recently Hector is getting more
           | and more annoyed with the process of upstreaming the patches.
           | I really hope the situation improves so we don't get another
           | PaX situation :( (different reasons of course, but similar
           | result)
        
             | raybb wrote:
             | What is the PaX situation? I tried googling but didn't find
             | it
        
       | zozbot234 wrote:
       | Note that Linux 6.2 does not include anything like a full
       | upstreaming of Apple Silicon support. You'll still want to run
       | the downstream Asahi kernel for a while.
        
       | davidw wrote:
       | I remember the 'bad old days' in the 90ies when all the big
       | companies had their own chips. SGI Mips, DEC Alpha, HPUX on PA-
       | RISC, Sun SPARC, etc...
       | 
       | I really hope we don't go back to that. Especially with a company
       | that defaults to 'proprietary' for so many things like Apple.
        
         | treve wrote:
         | Is anyone else besides Apple doing this?
        
         | quux wrote:
         | I could be wrong but I think a lot of the M1 support being
         | added to linux is around what used to be called the "chipset"
         | of the system and not the CPU itself, which is running a
         | typical ARM64 ISA.
         | 
         | Getting the device tree set up, initializing graphics and all
         | the peripherals, and the boot process is where Ashai Linux has
         | done the vast majority of their work.
        
       | urbandw311er wrote:
       | Could somebody explain in very simple terms how I might get my M1
       | Mac Pro to dual boot between MacOS & Linux? Is there a guide or
       | HowTo? Or am I a few months early re mainstream Linux rollout.
        
         | maxchristman wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | bri3d wrote:
         | Run "curl https://alx.sh | sh" , ???, profit.
         | 
         | This will download and execute the Asahi Linux installer. If
         | you want to check the source ahead of time, it's on the Asahi
         | Linux GitHub.
         | 
         | While functionality improves rapidly every day, it is still
         | decently rough around the edges. However, the installer is very
         | streamlined and it's easy to get set up and try it out.
        
         | dordoka wrote:
         | The Asahi Linux installer sets everything up and you end up
         | with dual boot. Check this post:
         | https://asahilinux.org/2022/03/asahi-linux-alpha-release/
        
       | vouaobrasil wrote:
       | I used to use Linux as my primary OS for almost 20 years, but I
       | switched to MacOS recently with my M1. While I wouldn't want to
       | use Linux now on it, and I have to admit I now prefer MacOS a
       | LOT, I am very happy for projects like these because by the time
       | Apple stops supporting my M1 Macs, Linux will probably be very
       | stable on them and will save them from the recycling plant.
       | 
       | (I also resurrected a Macbook Pro 2011 and got it to run about 5
       | years after Apple stopped supporting it as well.)
        
       | worldsavior wrote:
       | Can't wait for stable Linux to run on macOS. Wish I could work on
       | a project like Asahi Linux, it looks a very interesting one.
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | Yeah... but Apple Silicon requires firmware for a lot of the
       | peripherals. The upstream Linux kernel will now happily be able
       | to load said firmware into the right place... but it doesn't come
       | with it, so don't expect it to be as easy as rebuilding the
       | kernel and dropping into a generic ARM image.
        
       | rwl4 wrote:
       | No mention of Hector Martin, who leads the project, is made in
       | that whole article.
       | 
       | Alyssa has been instrumental on the GPU front, but I'd think
       | marcan deserves at least a passing mention.
        
         | pietro72ohboy wrote:
         | Exactly! Seems weird to miss out the name of the project lead.
        
         | frozenport wrote:
         | Moral: When you have a large project don't mention anybody in
         | specific. You will only alienate those you didn't mention.
        
           | mort96 wrote:
           | Well, it's fine to mention the names of key players. But if
           | you choose to do that, it's weird to not mention the name of
           | the person who started the project and has been driving it.
        
         | photoGrant wrote:
         | Yeah, beyond. It ventures less into oversight than it does a
         | slight.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | Seems like innocent mistake is most likely.
        
       | woleium wrote:
       | I love the idea of Linux on a mac, but until the touchpad
       | software is up to the same standard as the apple version I'll
       | make do with osx.
       | 
       | edit: I believe they are looking for donations.. I'll find a link
       | when I have time.
        
         | Y_Y wrote:
         | https://asahilinux.org/support/
        
           | btown wrote:
           | Also don't forget to subscribe to Asahi Lina!
           | https://www.youtube.com/c/AsahiLina
        
         | smoldesu wrote:
         | Linux has had Magic Trackpad support long predating it's
         | support for Apple Silicon. On KDE/GNOME sessions in Wayland,
         | you'll get 1:1 touchpad gestures for desktop management. Asahi
         | should be using Wayland out of the box, so you'll be getting
         | trackpad gestures along with the regular HID support.
         | 
         | Edit: here's what it looks like in action -
         | https://youtu.be/aBEsxTVRsEo?t=100
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | All of that is meaningless, if you move, and click, when
           | typing.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | I've not noticed any issues with palm-rejection when typing
             | on Linux. If your trackpad _does_ have issues, you can
             | disable it while typing (but most Windows Precision
             | trackpads work fine).
             | 
             | I'm mostly using the Magic Trackpad on my desktop though.
             | It's very possible you might find a laptop with bad palm-
             | rejection firmware, but I don't think that's an issue with
             | these. Or Synaptics touchpads, in my experience.
        
               | themadturk wrote:
               | I've had problems with palm rejection _in MacOS_ on the
               | M1 MBA; nowhere near as bad as on Dell machines running
               | various flavors of Linux, but they are there.
        
               | flohofwoe wrote:
               | Heh, interestingly I also noticed more problems on my 14"
               | M1 MBP than I had on my previous mid-2014 13" MBP (or
               | more specifically: any problems at all, because the
               | touchpad on my previous MBP was pretty much perfect).
               | 
               | I suspect it's simply because of the bigger touchpad.
               | Even if the "error rate" is the same as before, there are
               | just more potential errors because of the bigger touchpad
               | surface.
        
           | flohofwoe wrote:
           | It less about the gestures, but about the general "feel" of
           | the touchpad: latency, accuracy, acceleration, palm detection
           | etc etc etc "just works" on macOS. I never had even close to
           | the same experience on Windows, let alone on Linux. Maybe
           | there's a mythical "Mac-like" Linux touchpad driver out there
           | that doesn't suck, but if it isn't installed by default on a
           | vanilla Ubuntu setup (or any other maintream distro) then it
           | might just as well not exist.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | Good news! It's in vanilla Ubuntu now.
             | 
             | The main holdup was Wayland - go get your Wintel machine
             | and try booting up a Wayland session in KDE or GNOME. If
             | your trackpad was manufactured with multitouch, chances are
             | it will have gesture support. Any distro shipping GNOME
             | 41-ish or Plasma >5.25 should have this by-default.
             | 
             | As for the feel... I'm gonna be honest, I don't notice any
             | difference from my Mac. If anything, my Magic Trackpad has
             | more gesture options on my KDE machine out-of-the-box.
             | Don't knock it till you've tried it!
        
               | flohofwoe wrote:
               | Erm well, I'm on Ubuntu 22.04 with Wayland and the
               | touchpad is still crap :/
               | 
               | Worst thing is that I can't enable "tap to click" because
               | the palm detection just doesn't work at all.
        
             | KRAKRISMOTT wrote:
             | There are some physical constants that you can't obtain
             | short of measuring the touchpad and response in a metrology
             | lab. Unless Apple releases their sensor thresholds and
             | constants, reverse engineering can only approximate. Even
             | now Flutter on iOS with the Cupertino theme only feels
             | _somewhat_ native.
        
               | skissane wrote:
               | I don't think it needs a metrology lab - how about clean
               | room reverse engineering of Apple's driver(s) instead?
        
         | andy_ppp wrote:
         | I just sponsor marcan on GitHub here:
         | https://github.com/sponsors/marcan but there might be better
         | ways. Not sure about touchpad support.
        
         | unpopularopp wrote:
         | Strange hill to die on when full hardware accelerated graphics
         | doesn't even work. Touchpad is the last problem
        
           | flohofwoe wrote:
           | A touchpad experience that doesn't get in the way is at least
           | as important as good desktop rendering performance though.
        
             | smoldesu wrote:
             | You should try using MacOS with software-accelerated
             | desktop rendering. Having seen both sides of the fence,
             | having hardware acceleration for your desktop is a king's
             | ransom relative to trackpad gestures.
        
             | dordoka wrote:
             | Have any of you actually tried Asahi? Touchpad works
             | flawlessly. A rust based, open source GPU driver is working
             | since December and swiftly advances daily to a fully stable
             | state.
        
           | dordoka wrote:
           | https://asahilinux.org/2022/12/gpu-drivers-now-in-asahi-
           | linu...
        
             | pengaru wrote:
             | > This is still an alpha driver
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | Yes, but it works. You can use it and it does
               | acceleration on par for lower OpenGL versions.
        
           | suction wrote:
           | [dead]
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-02-20 23:00 UTC)