[HN Gopher] A C64 MP3 Player
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       A C64 MP3 Player
        
       Author : ibobev
       Score  : 65 points
       Date   : 2023-02-17 10:41 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lyonsden.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lyonsden.net)
        
       | miohtama wrote:
       | Now, only if it could play music from a casette...
        
         | detrites wrote:
         | The SID chip has an audio in that lets you use the filter, so
         | it should be possible.
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | You can use the tape sense pin as a 1 bit sampler, and toggle
         | the volume for playback, so you can do that. Badly.
        
       | xuhu wrote:
       | Can a 386SX play an mp3 ? Or any CPU without a FPU for that
       | matter ?
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | Even Pentium class CPUs had problems handling MP3s depending on
         | the encoding
        
         | pwg wrote:
         | Doubtful. Back in the day when my 'work computer' was a Pentium
         | (Pentium 200MMX to be exact) playing a MP3 consumed 50% CPU.
         | Note, I no longer remember if mpg123 was using MMX instructions
         | or not.
         | 
         | Given how much faster a Pentium 200MMX was than any 386 CPU, I
         | very much doubt a 386 (even a DX) would have had enough power
         | to decode in real time a MP3.
        
           | xuhu wrote:
           | Found this (cubic player on a 386DX at 40MHz)
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jj97NXgHw4 and I'm wondering
           | how much a 32bit ISA is better than a 16bit one for integer
           | decoding.
        
           | asveikau wrote:
           | I remember using winamp on a Pentium 90 and it was up to the
           | job single tasking. I couldn't say the same about the one
           | time I tried to encode.
           | 
           | I can't recall what hardware I first used an MMX-optimized
           | encoder. I remember it making a huge difference though.
        
         | matja wrote:
         | From memory a 486DX4-100 or an overclocked 486DX2-66 (to 80MHz)
         | could just about handle 128kbit MP3s
        
           | A-Train wrote:
           | Ah nostalgia... This was my first PC processor. I remember my
           | CPU came with some sort of a bug that prevented me running
           | windows 3.11 on it.
        
           | bane wrote:
           | Yeah, I seem to remember there was that brief time period
           | where my PC could barely play MP3s and I used to treat them
           | like zip archives -- rendering them back out to WAV files to
           | play them back.
           | 
           | I _think_ you 're right and that was around the 486 DX2, DX4,
           | Pentium transitional time period.
        
           | SillyUsername wrote:
           | Interesting. My Amiga with a 68030 @42Mhz could just about
           | pull off mono 128Kbps decoding (as long as you didn't
           | multitask too much). That would suggest the 486 was almost
           | clock comparable to a 68030 at least for lossy decompression,
           | perhaps the 486 was around ~110% had their been a 68030
           | series 80Mhz equivalent.
        
         | nubinetwork wrote:
         | I know a 486 can just barely play them (while doing absolutely
         | nothing else)
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | I used to listen to mp3s on my FPU-less Sharp Zaurus clamshell
         | using madplay [0] with cycles to spare.
         | 
         | Linked from [0] is a page claiming to use MAD for mp3 playback
         | on a Newton [1].
         | 
         | Not sure how those compare to a 386SX, but it's probably a good
         | place to start.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.underbit.com/products/mad/
         | 
         | [1] https://40hz.org/Pages/newton/packages/madnewton/
        
       | nynyny7 wrote:
       | As other commenters have pointed out, this is a C64 _controlling_
       | an MP3 player.
       | 
       | People old enough to remember the late 1990s / early 2000s might
       | recall that back then it was popular, too, to hook up an external
       | MP3 decoder, e.g., to the parallel port; so that the PC's CPU
       | would not be at 100% just for playing MP3 music.
        
       | ruk_booze wrote:
       | mp3 on a stock C64 was showcased by Mahoney in 2010:
       | 
       | https://csdb.dk/release/?id=87985
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/0mF9kXZAjsI
       | 
       | tbf, it is "mp3" but still really impressive.
        
         | ugjka wrote:
         | sound lit bit like codec 2 on noisy rf
        
       | reaperducer wrote:
       | _Resource Limit Is Reached
       | 
       | The website is temporarily unable to service your request as it
       | exceeded resource limit. Please try again later._
       | 
       | Apparently it's a C64 web server, too.
        
         | hummus_bae wrote:
         | Limit exceeded by what?
         | 
         | Is that really supposed to be some sort of standard response,
         | or is it something idiosyncratic to this server?
        
       | detrites wrote:
       | Spoiler: it's hardware.
       | 
       | And the opening line sounds like a challenge:
       | 
       | > Given that the much more powerful 16-bit Amiga 500 is unable to
       | play MP3's,
        
         | ajross wrote:
         | The C64 didn't have any kind of PCM output, so it basically has
         | to be. Early SID chips had a voltage glitch you could use for
         | 1-bit ("speaker-style") output, and a few games used it for
         | some effects. But you couldn't get music out of it in any real
         | sense.
        
           | mdp2021 wrote:
           | > _in any real sense_
           | 
           | I would be sure that if Tim Follin decided to just use that,
           | he would have "made full sense" (cpr. "Agent X" and
           | "Chronos", ZX Spectrum).
        
           | classichasclass wrote:
           | Four-bit (the amplitude of the "click" caused by the SID's
           | voltage leak is proportional to the volume, which is four-
           | bit). There are many demos that used it for digitized music,
           | and Rob Hubbard's Skate or Die! intro tune used it as a
           | practical fourth voice. See also the original Covox Voice
           | Master.
        
             | pflanze wrote:
             | There are also other techniques (found after the computer's
             | heyday), up to 8 bits 44.1 KHz:
             | 
             | https://www.livet.se/mahoney/c64-files/Musik_RunStop_Techni
             | c...
        
         | technothrasher wrote:
         | > Spoiler: it's hardware.
         | 
         | Yeah, this isn't MP3 on a C64. It's a C64 controlling an
         | external MP3 player.
        
         | Tuna-Fish wrote:
         | I think mp3 playback requires a reasonably fast multiply
         | instruction, and the original 68000's 70 cycles per mul @ 7MHz,
         | or 100000 muls per second doesn't qualify.
        
           | detrites wrote:
           | Some info here, claims a 68020 at 50Mhz (@10 MIPS) can just
           | pull it off:
           | 
           | https://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=78994
           | 
           | Might mean an A500 (@1.4 MIPS) could do it if you were happy
           | waiting 10-15 minutes for the audio of a 3 min mp3 to begin.
        
             | Someone wrote:
             | I don't think a stock A500 could do that, having 1MB RAM,
             | max.
             | 
             | Where would you store 3 minutes of uncompressed audio? At
             | CD quality, that's about 30MB.
        
               | Razengan wrote:
               | Wow, how far we have come.
               | 
               | MOD is superior to MP3 anyway :)
        
               | detrites wrote:
               | Given the likely output quality you'd probably choose
               | something like 32Kbps encoding for the mp3, which should
               | fit 3 mins in 720KB. (Not sure how it'd affect CPU
               | requirements?)
               | 
               | It's not that bad-sounding:
               | 
               | http://www.knowzy.com/Computers/Audio/Digital_Audio_Files
               | /au...
        
             | pixelfarmer wrote:
             | I think a stock Atari Falcon is capable of playing mp3
             | thanks to the DSP (56001), but it still isn't a walk in the
             | park even with that (in combination with a 68030 as the
             | main CPU).
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-18 23:01 UTC)