[HN Gopher] All the Buns Are Blank
___________________________________________________________________
All the Buns Are Blank
Author : zdw
Score : 98 points
Date : 2023-02-15 15:59 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (onefoottsunami.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (onefoottsunami.com)
| draw_down wrote:
| I was lucky to see Hedberg before he died much too young. One of
| the times I've laughed hardest in my life is when he said "if I
| stand on this mic cord and talk for a while and then let it go,
| you'll hear a bunch of jokes all at once".
| labster wrote:
| Buns for the People! We deserve the buns with all the nice
| toppings for the same price as regular buns.
| bentobean wrote:
| Sesame seeds are a right - not a privilege.
| arh68 wrote:
| They hardly had any sesame seeds to begin with.
|
| Big Marty's still have a ludicrous amount. I guess it's all or
| nothing.
| sp332 wrote:
| Floods knocked out a lot of the crop in India in 2022.
| ed25519FUUU wrote:
| There's always 2nd-order affects to removing allergens in food.
|
| In 2000 the American Academy of Pediatrics recommended parents
| wait until 3 years to introduce peanuts. 17 years later they
| dramatically reversed the guidance and admitted it probably was
| at least partly responsible for the meteoric rise of peanut
| allergies in America.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6157280/
| AlanYx wrote:
| That paper is fascinating, not just because of the discussion
| of peanut ingestion and allergies. I was unaware that
| moisturizing eczema outbreaks in very young infants reduces
| their lifetime chance of developing peanut and other food
| allergies, nor of the link between eczema and risks of
| developing a peanut allergy.
| noduerme wrote:
| Seems odd. Trader Joe's still sells peanuts. McDonalds still uses
| sesame seeds on Big Mac buns. It's not as if foods stop being
| sold when they're classified as potential allergens.
| elil17 wrote:
| Not necessarily an allergy thing - could be cost out, supply
| chain issues, or a new focus group that tells them that
| consumers don't actually like sesame seeds.
| phnofive wrote:
| Yes, but a good excuse to dump them where unnecessary.
| noduerme wrote:
| Sure. They took away the free peanuts and blamed it on the
| bubble boy in 7A.
| bredren wrote:
| I'm guessing they will bring back sesame seed buns. People are
| habitual, and sesame seed buns are well marketed.
|
| Maybe there's some manufacturing location sesame buns can be
| done alongside other sesame products that is more efficient.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Shrinkflation?
|
| Maybe instead of making portions sneakily smaller you just get
| rid of the extras.
|
| Watch out, it'll be the sprinkles on cupcakes next...
| AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
| Yeah, but wasn't McDonalds the company that sold their fries to
| Hindus and assured them they were vegetarian even while frying
| them in beef tallow?
|
| McDonalds never struck me as a company that cares very much.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| That was dishonest. Fortunately, it probably didn't matter at
| all? Because there's not an evil spirit that condemns folks
| who eat beef products even by accident.
| mhb wrote:
| New label law has unintended effect: Sesame in more foods
|
| https://apnews.com/article/sesame-allergies-label-b28f8eb3dc...
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34830917
| conro1108 wrote:
| I don't understand. Why would the suppliers change the recipe
| to _add_ sesame? Is it not just that they accepted the "may
| contain sesame" label instead of removing (or proving the lack
| of) sesame?
| Symbiote wrote:
| That's odd. The EU is usually more strict than the USA on
| food standards, and indeed sesame had to be labelled at least
| as far back as 2004. But the "may contain" or "produced in a
| facility that handles" labelling still seems to be allowed.
|
| There's some explanation here:
|
| https://www.tuvsud.com/en/press-and-
| media/2018/january/tuv-s...
| bsder wrote:
| > Why would the suppliers change the recipe to _add_ sesame?
|
| Control and consistency.
|
| If you don't measure an ingredient, you are at the mercy of a
| zillion different things for how much of that ingredient is
| present and your consistency is terrible. In addition, people
| who are only weakly allergic to said ingredient can never be
| sure if there is too much of it. People who go into
| anaphylaxis have to avoid your stuff altogether, anyhow.
|
| If, however, you _measure_ the ingredient, now the amount is
| precisely controlled. People who are only weakly allergic can
| test and now know from that point on that they are okay (or
| not).
|
| The people who are jumping up and down are the people who are
| strongly allergic. They expected the adopted law to cause
| manufacturers to have to pristine clean their lines when, in
| reality, the precise opposite occurred--the manufacturers
| added the ingredient and made their lines "dirtier".
| jhanschoo wrote:
| The article linked by an ancestor
| (https://apnews.com/article/sesame-allergies-
| label-b28f8eb3dc...) seems to contradict this comment (and
| I think this comment is mere armchair speculation):
|
| > If the ingredients don't include sesame, companies must
| take steps to prevent the foods from coming in contact with
| any sesame, known as cross-contamination.
|
| > Food industry experts said the new requirements aren't
| simple or practical.
|
| > Some companies include statements on labels that say a
| food "may contain" a certain product or that the food is
| "produced in a facility" that also uses certain allergens.
| However, such statements are voluntary, not required,
| according to the FDA, and they do not absolve the company
| of requirements to prevent cross-contamination.
|
| > Instead, some companies have taken a different approach.
| Officials at Olive Garden said that starting this week, the
| chain is adding "a minimal amount of sesame flour" to the
| company's famous breadsticks "due to the potential for
| cross-contamination at the bakery."
| kurthr wrote:
| They're made in the same bakery that other goods that have
| sesame and other seeds and nuts. You can't guarantee there
| won't be any so add the tiniest amount for labeling
| purposes... yes it could be more expensive not to.
|
| Of course this is the exact opposite of what TFA had to say.
| msrenee wrote:
| Because apparently that doesn't count and they still have to
| prevent cross-contamination.
|
| >Some companies include statements on labels that say a food
| "may contain" a certain product or that the food is "produced
| in a facility" that also uses certain allergens. However,
| such statements are voluntary, not required, according to the
| FDA, and they do not absolve the company of requirements to
| prevent cross-contamination.
|
| Basically the options are redo your production process so
| that there are no traces of sesame or add enough to put it on
| the ingredients list.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| "may contain" is legally meaningless, apparently.
|
| You either follow difficult procedures to avoid cross-
| contamination, or you make it an ingredient. There is no
| option in between.
| JohnFen wrote:
| That sounds suspiciously like an impossible standard to
| meet in a factory setting.
| bentcorner wrote:
| That's kind of weird. I see "may contain" all the time for
| other allergens and it's pretty accurate - it's a crapshoot
| whether or not I get an allergy (it seems m&m's warning is
| very accurate, whereas my local deli it's more of a cya
| statement). If I _don 't_ see "may contain" it's also safe
| to eat.
|
| There must be something different about sesame and it's
| role in the food pipeline that makes it harder to deal with
| compared to other common allergens.
| bombcar wrote:
| I think the permissible "may contain" is the "this
| product was produced in a facility that also handles tree
| nuts" kind of warning, which is not technically an
| ingredient.
| derefr wrote:
| You could add a homeopathically-diluted 1/2^256 fraction of
| sesame essential oil. At that point, the FDA would likely
| never accept the claim that it _isn 't_ an ingredient; and
| yet there literally won't be any in there to hurt anyone.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| That gets really weird to communicate to a customer,
| though.
| Fatnino wrote:
| you can just not put in any and write on the package that
| you optionally might have.
| plorkyeran wrote:
| You aren't allowed to put things on the ingredients list
| which aren't actually in the food, and the new regulation
| doesn't let they say that there _might_ be sesame.
| Fatnino wrote:
| I've definitely seen foods that the ingredients list says
| "ingredient a or ingredient b"
| bombcar wrote:
| That is different than "may contain".
|
| There's two conflicting laws here - one says you MUST
| label if you have allergens (this one allows the "may or
| may not contain the devil's seeds") and another says you
| cannot imply or state your product has something it does
| not have (this appears to be the one banning "may or may
| not").
| [deleted]
| JohnFen wrote:
| "May contain x" is not part of the ingredients list,
| though. An ingredient is something intentionally in the
| product. The warning is just telling you that there's a
| chance that x accidentally got in.
| thaeli wrote:
| This reminds me of the reason Five Guys has open containers of
| peanuts prominently displayed in their stores: they fry in
| peanut oil. Ironically, peanut oil doesn't have the allergen
| that triggers most peanut allergies, but explaining that is
| difficult, so they just went all-in with the free peanuts
| everywhere branding instead.
| puffoflogic wrote:
| > peanut oil doesn't have the allergen that triggers most
| peanut allergies
|
| Facts like that are completely irrelevant before a judge and
| jury, so their position is understandable and probably for
| the best (for them).
| phnofive wrote:
| Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34830649
|
| Doesn't totally answer the question, they had to update the
| packaging anyway. To Mr. Hedburg's point, I'm sure no one misses
| them.
| bredren wrote:
| At first I thought this was a shrinkflation thing.
|
| But the grocery's internal notes in the product attribute the
| change to the FDA ruling sesame a major food allergen.
|
| Anyone allergic to sesame?
|
| Here's a direct link to FDA's announcement, which includes
| mention of the January 1st, 2023 new product labeling
| requirement.
|
| https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/allergic-sesa...
|
| The 9 major allergens are now: milk, eggs, fish, such as bass,
| flounder, cod, Crustacean shellfish, such as crab, lobster,
| shrimp tree nuts, such as almonds, walnuts, pecans peanuts,
| wheat, soybeans, and sesame
| lovecg wrote:
| I've had some experience with it in a close relative.
| Interestingly enough, the whole seeds are usually fine as you
| don't digest them, the protein in question is inside the seed
| (unless you go out of your way to chew them). Most sesame oils
| are also fine. It's the pastes that are dangerous (some
| desserts, hummus, sauces).
| bredren wrote:
| That's funny because it is unusual to actually crush a sesame
| seed.
|
| I either have to position and bite down on one between my
| canines or they may break up when they get stuck between
| teeth or in course of unsticking them.
|
| Sesame seeds are never that satisfying to eat, but they do
| add texture to the bun.
| [deleted]
| JohnFen wrote:
| > Anyone allergic to sesame?
|
| I have a niece who is crazy allergic to sesame. She'll have a
| serious reaction to even very tiny amounts.
| Tangurena2 wrote:
| In some places, it _is_ shrinkflation. At Walmart, the baked-
| in-the-store bread with sesame seeds on top runs $1.78. Without
| the seeds, $1.48. February of 2022, both loaves cost $1.00.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| What's such as bass?
| gavanm wrote:
| Bass is a high level name for a some species of fish.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_(fish)
| thewebcount wrote:
| > Anyone allergic to sesame?
|
| I am. I'm lucky in that I'm not anaphylactic to it, but it
| causes me other problems. I was able to eat sesame for decades,
| then one day, after having a bunch of other issues, I went to
| the doctor and they tested me for a bunch of stuff and a bunch
| of stuff I could previously eat without issue, I'm now allergic
| to. It really sucks, though it's better than if it caused
| anaphylaxis.
| jimmygrapes wrote:
| FYI this reads like you were fine with sesame until you went
| to the doctor for something else, and you came away with an
| allergy to sesame. Maybe that's what you meant, but that
| would be even scarier to me than "I discovered I had
| developed an allergy to sesame as a consequence of other
| issues"!
| Spivak wrote:
| One of my good friends has a sesame allergy and this law has
| backfired _spectacularly_ for her. She basically can 't buy
| bread now because at our local Kroger every brand has started
| purposely adding sesame to all their stuff so they can declare
| it as an ingredient and avoid having to deal with cross-
| contamination.
|
| So now bread that was previously in practice (but not
| theoretically) safe for her to eat is being made specifically
| unsafe.
| burnished wrote:
| Why is that?
| Spivak wrote:
| It's cheaper to add it as an ingredient than to meet the
| standards for cross-contamination.
| acomjean wrote:
| My partner is allergic to gluten. But it's an allergy not
| celiac. A lot of products without gluten are labeled as
| manufactured at a facility that may process gluten or some
| such to avoid liability.
|
| Adding sesame as an ingredient just seems spiteful.
| ChadNauseam wrote:
| It's not spiteful, it's profit maximizing. Being labeled
| as "processed in a factory that may process sesame"
| doesn't remove your liability under the new law. It
| either has sesame as an ingredient or it doesn't, and if
| it doesn't it must not contain sesame.
| pabs3 wrote:
| What if you label it as definitely containing sesame but
| don't actively add sesame?
| alanfranz wrote:
| You cannot add an ingredient to your list which isn't
| actually there. It would violate another law.
| ars wrote:
| It's illegal to say it "might" contain sesame. It either
| has to, or it has to be completely free of it.
|
| So it's easier to just make sure it has some, rather than
| guarantee no cross contamination.
| rhacker wrote:
| Half the crap at Trader Joes says "Contains x,y,z. May
| Contain A,b and c"
|
| Most of the time it's not an ingredient but worked on
| shared equipment. Other times it's like an oil that
| changes depending on availability.
| pixl97 wrote:
| I think the issue here is 'may contain' is not legally
| binding in any manner therefore stricken from
| consideration in any product liability. Your legal
| liability is 'contains' or 'does not contain', but you
| cannot list a 'contains' if your product does not contain
| said ingredient, so now you're legally incentivised to
| add the allergen to the product to reduce your total
| liability.
| bombcar wrote:
| That "may contain" part is what's now being cracked down
| upon, apparently.
|
| The old law let you say that, and you could sell your
| stuff as mostly-allergen free but if some got it no
| biggie.
|
| Now you can't do that, it either has or has not, there is
| no may. And you can't say it has sesame without it being
| in there, so adding it is easy.
|
| Otherwise you have to not list it and you have to prove
| you've prevented cross-contamination.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Avoiding cross-contamination (preventing any trace of
| sesame in a line of product) usually means reworking the
| product lines, separating storage, isolate workers working
| on non sesame lines etc.
|
| The cost of that is way higher than adding an ingredient in
| an existing product, and the business cost of losing these
| customers is low (allergics will be a minority). Short of
| media backlash, that's the lower cost move.
| mindslight wrote:
| The root of the problem is the lack of _timely_
| regulation, like many things in the US. If the FDA had
| clamped down on this "may contain ..." legalistic
| garbage as soon as it started showing up (20 years ago?),
| then either most of those factories would have never been
| merged or they would have at least designed processes for
| assuring isolation. By waiting so long, the situation is
| now firmly between a rock and a hard place - the bean
| counters will bemoan how expensive it would be to undo
| all of the "optimization" they did over the past few
| decades. And they're not wrong! Whereas if they had been
| prevented from squeezing those few cents per unit in the
| first place, bread would be basically the same price and
| we wouldn't be in this situation.
| rhacker wrote:
| We'll I'll say one thing, I'm glad soy is reported in the
| "contains" area now.
|
| If I accidentally buy a soy product my wife is basically
| screaming at me after eating it (out of her mind). Then after she
| finds out I bought soy she screams at me again (this time in her
| right mind). Don't buy soy guys, it's a fucking estrogenic
| nightmare at home.
| Fatnino wrote:
| Your wife sounds wonderful
| russdill wrote:
| That's not _quite_ the conclusion I reached from the comment.
| [deleted]
| 1101010010 wrote:
| > Don't buy soy guys, it's a fucking estrogenic nightmare at
| home.
|
| Phytoestrogen is very different than the literal estrogen and
| resulting molecular mimicry found in animal products - the real
| nightmare.
| drewg123 wrote:
| I had a misdiagnosed sesame allergy and I spent decades irritated
| by having to pull off the seeds or ask for 2 bottom buns. I'm
| thrilled to see more seedless options
|
| What I've always wondered: What exactly do these seeds add to the
| experience? I never really got the point of sesame seeds. Now
| that I can eat them again I still don't get it.
| bombcar wrote:
| My joke is they add texture for grip so the burger doesn't
| slide out of your hand.
|
| But they do seem to make the bun a bit "higher class" somehow.
| toast0 wrote:
| On hamburger buns, seasame seeds are usually pretty sparse, but
| add a little bit of texture, and if the seads get heated enough
| when the buns are toasted, sometimes a bit stronger flavor.
|
| On other breads, sometimes there's enough density that you get
| a real flavor from the seeds.
| astura wrote:
| I love them - they add a really nice taste and a bit of
| texture.
| croisillon wrote:
| growing up in the white-bread baguette loving country, i
| experienced my first real variety of bread with 13 at a youth
| hostel in Bavaria ; i can't begin to describe the incredible
| taste of sesame buns and how i grieved for that taste
| afterwards
| russdill wrote:
| It's 99% visual appeal.
| droopyEyelids wrote:
| We're stuck in a vicious cycle with allergies - first peanuts,
| now sesame, and possibly eggs in the future.
|
| When kids are exposed to the above early and often, they're much
| less likely to develop allergies. However, to protect the
| allergic, peanuts and now sesame are removed from childcare
| facilities, school lunches, etc. This exposes fewer children,
| which increases the percent that develop the allergy, requiring
| the allergen to be removed from more products & places people
| eat!
|
| Who knows if it applies to these buns, but it's an interesting
| situation we're stuck with.
|
| https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2017/01/10/peanut-allergy-earl...
| autoexec wrote:
| > However, to protect the allergic, peanuts and now sesame are
| removed from childcare facilities, school lunches, etc.
|
| The solution is for people to expose their kids to that stuff
| at home. That way the kids get the exposure without endangering
| the population.
|
| I have no evidence for any of it, but my pet theory is that the
| increase in food allergies (especially adult onset) is at least
| somewhat environmental. That we're exposed to so many toxic
| products/pollutants, and our bodies so filled with
| microplastics, that our gut epithelium becomes compromised, we
| have increased inflammation, and our immune systems are
| increasingly on high alert causing them to overreact to things
| that aren't really threats.
| refuse wrote:
| I suspect most people with food allergies actually just have
| an eating disorder, or anxiety/hypochondria issues. I
| wouldn't rule out sociogenic "food allergies" either. Look at
| the gluten-free fad that took off for a while.
| yayadarsh wrote:
| This is an absolutely ridiculous claim, it's very clear
| that you have never met anyone with an allergy (or cared to
| ask someone about their experience if you have)
| refuse wrote:
| Actually I have them in my family (epi pen and all), but
| I've met many more people with false allergies that use
| them to justify disordered eating habits or something
| else (hilariously, I've seen someone use their allergies
| to try and micromanage what everyone else around them can
| eat, down to how their spouse's coffee is brewed).
|
| https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/eating-disorders-
| the...
|
| https://www.livescience.com/64423-food-allergies-
| overestimat...
|
| https://www.aafp.org/pubs/afp/issues/2008/0615/p1678.html
|
| https://www.verywellhealth.com/fake-food-
| allergies-1323997
|
| https://www.cosmopolitan.com/food-cocktails/a5402/food-
| aller...
| autoexec wrote:
| I meant the type of allergy that often results in
| anaphylaxis. We can be sure that if someone's throat is
| swelling shut it isn't simply a case of hypochondriasis or
| someone following the latest food fads. Anxiety can cause
| shortness of breath or palpitations, but they're going to
| present very differently in the ER compared to someone
| experiencing a severe allergic reaction.
|
| Even if someone managed to have a somatic illness that
| actually did cause their throat to swell and close up when
| exposed to certain allergens (the mind is a powerful thing
| after all) I don't think it'd make any meaningful
| difference in the event that it occurred. It would still be
| a life threatening medical emergency. It might however mean
| that with help it could be possible for them to stop having
| the reaction, but I'm not even sure they'd work if their
| immune system genuinely saw the food as a threat and
| learned to treat it as such.
| russdill wrote:
| There's a lot of study of allergy differences between rural
| and urban kids. The explanation given is often that rural
| kids have a much wider exposure to allergens and pathogens.
| This is an interesting alternative explanation.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| parents can do this.
|
| of course, there are a whole lot reasons why parents don't.
|
| what is that old joke--we need a license to drive a car but not
| to make a baby.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Some pediatricians now recommend exposure to common allergens
| and products that cause allergic reactions very early. Even if
| the "lack of exposure as the direct cause" theory doesn't play
| out, which I'm not sure it will, early exposure allows you to
| find out if your child has a serious adverse reaction before
| they reach school age and have one in school.
| sbierwagen wrote:
| Looks like you added an extra g to that url. Corrected version:
| https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2017/01/10/peanut-allergy-earl...
| yongjik wrote:
| I'm not totally sure if it works like that. I grew up in Korea,
| where peanuts are consumed but not much: I never even heard of
| peanut butter growing up. Interestingly, peanut allergies are
| also rare: again, I don't think I heard about it growing up.
|
| Move to the US, where peanuts and peanut butter are everywhere,
| and suddenly I'm responsible for checking whether my kids'
| snacks contain peanuts because someone in the class might be
| allergic to it!
| LeonB wrote:
| The study linked above says that exposing kids to peanuts
| lowers the chance of them developing peanut allergy -- and
| people (including the authors of that article) tend to make
| the faulty assumption that this means peanut allergy is
| caused by not being exposed to peanuts early enough.
|
| As you've highlighted this would imply that cultures where
| there are no peanuts would be filled with peanut allergies --
| but that's not the case.
|
| I suspect that there's a cross reactivity going on. Infants
| are exposed to an allergen and their immune system develops a
| good response for it. That response also applies to peanuts,
| unnecessarily. Had they been exposed to both peanuts and the
| true allergen then their immune system would've learned to
| discriminate.
|
| A similar example -- some US citizens are exposed to poison
| Ivy. They develop a stronger and stronger response after
| multiple exposures. Later (as a consequence) they are also
| allergic to Mango because Mango has some kind of similarity
| to Poison Ivy, from the immune system's point of view. The
| Mango allergy could be reduced if they had been also exposed
| to mango... but mango isn't the problem -- Poison Ivy is!
| rhacker wrote:
| If it's in the US only, it may actually be some toxic
| pesticide we are putting on peanuts specifically. Then of
| course it's not worth "trying" organic peanuts because you
| think it's the peanuts.
|
| Peanuts, by the way, (if not organic) have the highest
| concentration of pesticide saturation.
|
| Here is more information:
| https://www.crigenetics.com/blog/dirty-truth-peanut-
| allergie...
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| > As I jabbed my finger at that laggy touchscreen, a helpful
| employee asked if he could assist me instead. I explained the
| predicament, and I saw his reality give out as well. Now we were
| both adrift in a sea of confusion.
|
| Nope, you saw him engage Retail Worker Droid Mode, where their
| soul leaves their body.
| amelius wrote:
| There's human hair in factory made bread.
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2013/ma...
| danjoredd wrote:
| Mmm...fiber.
| dogsgobork wrote:
| Has anyone checked the cicada cycles?
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUxMY77i0q4
| namuol wrote:
| Looking forward to your next comment when the FDA designates
| cumin as an allergen and there's a public outcry against BK's
| new, blander BBQ sauce.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-02-17 23:01 UTC)