[HN Gopher] IKEA made a smart air quality sensor to track indoor...
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IKEA made a smart air quality sensor to track indoor pollution
Author : thunderbong
Score : 244 points
Date : 2023-02-16 11:28 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.engadget.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.engadget.com)
| blago wrote:
| So much irony considering that Ikea's furniture is probably the
| main source of formaldehyde pollution in most people's homes. I
| don't judge them too hard but ironic nevertheless.
| bklyn11201 wrote:
| How much pre-1993 Ikea furniture still exists in USA homes?!
| blago wrote:
| What happened in 1993?
| CharlesW wrote:
| That's when IKEA stopped adding formaldehyde to its
| products.
|
| https://www.ikea.com/us/en/customer-
| service/knowledge/articl...: _" Trace amounts of
| formaldehyde can be found in our products as it is a
| naturally occurring substance, however, we do not add
| formaldehyde to our range. As a precautionary measure, IKEA
| has phased out several chemicals that could potentially be
| harmful, often ahead of legislation."_
| ahaucnx wrote:
| I have extensively tested the previous model and it was a bit of
| a mixed result with the strongest selling point the price being
| really affordable. You can see my review and test result on our
| blog [1].
|
| One of the biggest negative points that I found was that the
| traffic light cut off points are way off. So it shows a green
| light from 0-35 mg/m3 whereas the WHO defines the annual limit
| now at less than 5 mg/m3.
|
| Unfortunately in this new model this seems still to be the case
| and has not been improved (according to the manual [2]). So the
| VINDSTYRKA still gives misleading indications through the traffic
| light but at least you can now see the mg/m3 on the display and
| make a more informed judgement (compared to the old model without
| display).
|
| It is difficult to make a judgement on the accuracy without
| really running it through a test cycle but it is definitely
| missing a CO2 sensor. Measuring CO2 indoors is most likely the
| most important parameter, especially if you live outside strongly
| polluted areas e.g. in Asia.
|
| CO2 sensors that give good accuracy are relatively expensive and
| I believe it was probably shelved because of costs which is a
| pity. So this looks like a big missed opportunity but I will try
| and source one of these and write a review.
|
| If you are interested for a DIY kit with high quality sensors,
| check out our AirGradient kits [3].
|
| [1] https://www.airgradient.com/open-airgradient/blog/ikea-
| vindr...
|
| [2] https://www.ikea.com/cz/cs/manuals/vindstyrka-senzor-
| kvality...
|
| [3] https://www.airgradient.com/open-airgradient/kits/
| dgellow wrote:
| Do you sell them in europe too?
| mcjiggerlog wrote:
| Agreed - the lack of CO2 monitoring is a shame.
|
| I bought a relatively inexpensive CO2 monitor (~90 EUR) and it
| was really an eye opener. If you work in a small home office,
| the speed that you reach levels of CO2 that _will_ have a
| noticeable impact on your mental faculties (eg 2000ppm) is
| incredible. Definitely makes you step up your ventilation game!
| hebrox wrote:
| Can you share which one you bought?
| mcjiggerlog wrote:
| https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B07R4XM9Z6
| Animats wrote:
| > Definitely missing a CO2 sensor.
|
| CO2 sensing devices have become cheaper. No need to buy a kit.
| Here are two from China. [1][2]
|
| [1] http://www.langder.com/
|
| [2] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Factory-direct-
| sales-...
| jahnu wrote:
| How's the accuracy?
| criddell wrote:
| Your AirGradient ONE page says "contact us for pricing". How
| much is it? Why don't you list the price?
| ahaucnx wrote:
| Unlike our kits, the AirGradient ONE targets commercial
| customers with large and sometimes complex requirements so
| the price varies depending on this.
|
| But to give you an estimate it is somewhere between USD
| 200-300.
| noja wrote:
| Ikea: Does the new model still have a fan that annoyingly
| switches on and off every 10 seconds?
|
| AirGradient: support for Homekit please!
| berberous wrote:
| Have you tested Awair? How does Airgradiant compare?
| ahaucnx wrote:
| Awair uses much better sensors than the Ikea and the accuracy
| should be quite similar to the AirGradient.
| kixiQu wrote:
| While it won't catch "you need to open your office window", I'd
| recommend it to anyone for their kitchen. VOCs and PM2.5 can
| get real bad without the cook realizing so anything that's even
| slightly reliable can be useful
| taeric wrote:
| I welcome more information on air quality. I do not look forward
| to the emerging state of it. I fully expect it to be closer to
| back surgeries than otherwise.
| cptskippy wrote:
| Hey I made an IKEA smart air quality sensor too!
|
| https://imgur.com/a/UhL4OuD
| progbits wrote:
| They are already selling the Vindriktning for a long time. It
| doesn't have a screen, just a traffic lights style indicator, and
| the thresholds are quite high. However it costs like $10 and if
| you buy a $3 esp module and spend few minutes soldering you can
| get it integrated into home assistant.
|
| This new device looks nice but due to the display I expect the
| price to be much higher.
| Jensson wrote:
| You can get a calculator for a few dollars, basic screens
| aren't that expensive. The screen shown looks like the same
| level as a calculator and a few printed symbols on top of it,
| so price shouldn't need to change much at all.
| martin_a wrote:
| This was the first thing that came to my mind.
|
| I've got various IKEA lights integrated in Home Assistant which
| is no problem due to sticking to the ZigBee standard, so I can
| use my existing gateway + RPi 3.
|
| If those air quality monitors would support the ZigBee standard
| too, that would be very nice.
| progbits wrote:
| Definitely. These could be nice for locations where they can
| be seen as they actually look nice and provide useful
| display.
|
| But usually I prefer to hide something cheaper and uglier
| behind furniture and then get the data on my phone.
|
| I wish they put these into other objects like lamps, picture
| frames etc
| unwind wrote:
| Captain Obvious checking in: the name (which Engadget classified
| as "tongue-twisting") literally means "wind strength", or "wind
| speed" as its called in actual English. It's two words: "vind" is
| (surprise) "wind" and "styrka" is "strength". The latter can be
| pronounced decently by pretending the "y" is perhaps a double
| "e", or something.
|
| It is, admittedly, is a bit weird of a name for a sensor that
| measures air quality but on the other hand it's Ikea and they
| name things after their own mind.
|
| Source: am Swedish.
| jacooper wrote:
| Actual English?
| smallnix wrote:
| I guess op meant "proper English " as in "not literally but
| semantically translated"
| unwind wrote:
| Yes, exactly that. Thanks.
| benj111 wrote:
| As opposed to the thing wot they speak in the colonies.
| input_sh wrote:
| Now I'm curious and since you're already here, what's the
| difference between VINDTRYRKA and VINDRIKTNING? For context,
| both are IKEA's air quality sensors, but the new one has a
| screen.
| Jensson wrote:
| Vindriktning is wind direction. So you have strength, and
| direction, so next is Vindvektor?
| cdaven wrote:
| There's also the lamp VINDKAST, which in English is "wind
| throw" or "flurry".
| bborud wrote:
| gust of wind
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| German: Windstarke (Strength of Wind)
| jacooper wrote:
| Windgeschwindigkeit for wind speed.
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| Also valid, but more specific, like meters per second.
|
| I've been referring to the (more commonly used?)
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale where the
| scale is more coarse.
| netrus wrote:
| What does it take to produce cheap CO2 sensors? Ikea would be my
| best bet to provide a large enough market for good-enough sensors
| to bring prices down. A CO2 sensor should be in every classroom
| and every office, but it's not affordable enough yet.
| agoose77 wrote:
| Depends what "cheap" is. You can get MHZ19 < PS20-30 last I
| checked.
| [deleted]
| progbits wrote:
| Sensirion SCD40, a good quality compact sensor from very
| reputable manufacturer, sells for $25 in bulk.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| After including all the costs and markups to get it to
| retail, that would imply an MSRP of at least $200.
| billiallards wrote:
| Looks like <$30 to buy a single unit on DigiKey with a
| prevailing price ~$40, but you'd probably need a reflow
| oven to solder the unit. $60 for an assembled board at
| retail.
|
| Bulk retail is closer to $20, so OP may not have been
| referring to negotiated wholesale volume pricing.
|
| https://octopart.com/search?q=scd40¤cy=USD&specs=0
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| $60 for an assembled unit at a retail store when the
| sensor alone is $20-$25 in bulk?
| ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
| Why isn't my 1000$ smartphone loaded with sensors, infrared
| camera, decibel meter etc.
| arsome wrote:
| Same reason I can't have a hardware keyboard on any modern,
| reasonably priced phone: lack of demand.
| davidy123 wrote:
| You can add these things via USB (not sure about iPhone). If
| enough people find it helpful, it'll become part of the
| package eventually.
| happymellon wrote:
| There are a few lightning adaptors, I have an IR camera for
| example, however they are talking about the USB C port is
| going to be proprietary so it will only work for power
| unless you have Apple approved wiring and chips.
| jve wrote:
| ... yeah, apart from gyroscope, pressure, proximity, light,
| position, magnetic, accelerometer, g, fingerprint, blood
| oxygen, internal temp and IR sensors.
| whstl wrote:
| And some smart speakers are now loaded with thermometer and
| hygrometer.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| All Home pod mini and the new big hompod has those
| goodpoint wrote:
| Because manufacturers invested a lot in advertising to create
| demand for extremely high resolution screen and cameras.
|
| Even if air quality sensors would have saved lives (see covid
| and air pollution) that's not what companies optimize for.
| aflag wrote:
| Probably because it would make it cost more than $1000 while
| not being useful to most people.
| aintgonnatakeit wrote:
| iPhone has a decibel meter
| LeonM wrote:
| Any phone has a decibel meter, it's the microphone.
|
| However, I can imagine that with Android devices
| calibration is going to be an issue (with iPhones, you know
| which sensor is being used)
| soderfoo wrote:
| Manufacturers believe consumer sentiment favors cramming more
| telephoto selfie cams and the like in to phones.
| literalAardvark wrote:
| Unfortunately, word on the street agrees. I'd really love
| CO2, HRV and a physical keyboard, but it's just not gonna
| happen ever, because we'd end up with the Homermobile.
| red-iron-pine wrote:
| homemobile was ugly and expensive. if they could be
| slipped in easily and reasonably cheaply then it might
| fly.
| varjag wrote:
| > decibel meter
|
| You have the microphone in your smartphone.
| loudmax wrote:
| Because the demand hasn't been there. If more people learn
| the benefits of these sensors and decide they want more of
| them they'll pay more for models that include them and
| manufacturers will respond to demand. If people don't know
| about them, or don't perceive any particular benefit, those
| sensors will remain niche and expensive.
| lostmsu wrote:
| Note, the IKEA sensor does NOT monitor CO2.
| the_generalist wrote:
| I toyed with something like this a few years ago. Never really
| built the thing, but you can actually do this with a Rasberry
| Pi and a couple of attachments.
| ThePhysicist wrote:
| Normally a high CO2 level will go hand in hand with the air
| feeling stuffy from other pollutants that build up at the same
| time, so there's hardly a need to continuously use a CO2 meter
| as you can easily notice when the air "goes bad". CO2 buildup
| is quite predictable in most closed rooms based on the number
| of people inside, the room volume and the ventilation as well,
| so you can just work out a ventilation schedule and stick to
| that instead. Common sense often beats smart gadets.
|
| Personally I have a CO2 meter in my tiny office room but I
| don't need to look at it as I pretty much know that it will be
| in the red after being in the room for a while with the door
| closed.
| flemhans wrote:
| I can't feel the difference between 1500ppm and 500ppm CO2
| levels, yet 1500 is above recommended limits.
|
| It's actually quite difficult to keep it below 1000 for us,
| and getting these sensors in every room has been quite the
| 'curse' :D
| maxerickson wrote:
| I imagine people are mostly perceiving humidity and heat
| when they notice a room getting stuffy.
| drewda wrote:
| FWIW, the frustrations of not being able to change high CO2
| levels was just a topic of discussion over on
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34648021
| boppo1 wrote:
| I've wondered about this. If I install an air monitor in my
| room, what do I do if it shows low quality? Open my window
| in below-freezing winter temps? Hire someone to overhaul my
| furnace and vents?
| throwaway14356 wrote:
| if you keep the window open all year, dress appropriately
| and avoid heated buildings you don't notice how cold it
| is. I switch it on a few years ago because my cat is
| getting really old. I now feel cold if its 17 C or below.
| kgermino wrote:
| That is an extraordinarily climate-specific
| recommendation. It's currently a fairly mild 30F/-1 C
| outside my house and even that is obviously way too cold
| to go without heat completely.
| throwaway14356 wrote:
| You are conditioned to think you are and feel cold. Look
| how cold some countries and regions get? The people
| working outside there are not a different species. The
| trick is to get used to it gradually. I didn't say it was
| fun or easy.
|
| I spend a good bit of winter working outside but with
| physical activity it is much easier.
|
| Do you have other ideas? I mean, it would be nice? I cant
| think of anything else besides migration.
| Germanika wrote:
| >Look how cold some countries and regions get?
|
| As someone from said countries and regions, people living
| outside freeze to death here. Long before you get to that
| point your water pipes will freeze, leaving you without
| running water. The pipes will then burst and flood your
| house if you don't address it quickly enough. You can
| certainly heat it to a lower temperature and occasionally
| crack open a window for some fresh air, but there's a
| difference between conditioning yourself to be
| comfortable at 17C and -30C.
| happymellon wrote:
| If you aren't willing to do anything about it then why
| bother with the air monitor?
|
| If you only have a single room then your options are
| limited, however moving rooms or opening a door to a
| different room and turning on a fan to increase
| circulation?
|
| If it is CO2 then you could invest in a houseplant or
| two.
| dgacmu wrote:
| Houseplants do not exchange anything near significant
| amounts of CO2 for this purpose.
|
| The long term answer is to improve the HVAC: reconfigure
| for more external air mixing (commercial), or find a way
| to install an HRV or ERV, or open a window, but that can
| be expensive or impossible depending on the situation.
| happymellon wrote:
| The houseplant was just the cheer them up while they
| slowly suffocate since they weren't going to do anything
| about it.
|
| Like a button that does nothing.
| Ajedi32 wrote:
| > If it is CO2 then you could invest in a houseplant or
| two.
|
| This seemed wrong to me, so I checked and it seems like
| you'd need hundreds of houseplants to make any
| significant difference:
| https://www.realhomes.com/news/do-house-plants-remove-
| carbon...
| boppo1 wrote:
| Seems like there'd be a market for a CO2 > O2 exchanger
| of some sort. I don't know enough chemistry to recognize
| why this is probably too difficult for commercial
| viability.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Open the window. In my apartment I keep a single open
| somewhere between a millimeter and a centimeter when it's
| below freezing, depending on the temperature and wind.
| That's enough to keep my CO2 sensor happy (try to keep it
| around 550), and it (shockingly) doesn't seem to affect
| my heating bill all that much. There's a cold corner of
| the room next to that window, but the rest of the
| apartment stays just as warm. (I have a thermostat that
| controls heating.)
|
| I also keep a humidifier running full blast (silently)
| because otherwise it will get crazy dry on some days.
| Semaphor wrote:
| > I also keep a humidifier running full blast (silently)
| because otherwise it will get crazy dry on some days.
|
| Heh, I usually keep the dehumidifier running, I don't
| think I'll ever need a humidifier. Currently, 80% RH
| (7g/m3) outside, with indoor levels all slightly above
| 60%.
| thombat wrote:
| That cold corner risks becoming a condensation point and
| so developing mold.
| crazygringo wrote:
| It doesn't though. The relative humidity at 70degF is
| only 30-35% with the humidifier running full blast.
| Because it's often 7-15% without the humidifier. Because
| the air coming through the window is bone dry.
|
| The problem in the winter here is keeping _enough_
| humidity in the air. It would be nice if I ever had to
| worry about condensation. ;)
| arrrg wrote:
| So, this works with temperatures down to freezing and
| below (don't know what the cut off is, maybe there is
| none given this planet's temperature range) and if you
| heat and dress appropriately (i.e. not up to super high
| temperatures - around 20degC or so - and if you have a
| sweater or jacket on or can put one on).
|
| Obviously you also need the appropriate building for it.
| (So no fancy passive house. No fancy air conditioning -
| which is quite uncommon where I'm from anyway.)
|
| Generally, if you only open the windows for five minutes
| or so the air will cool down substantially (the right
| moment to pull on that sweater) but everything else
| (walls, furniture) will not really cool down that much,
| meaning the room will be quick to be back at an
| appropriate temperature.
|
| We learned and did this in school, often do it in offices
| and meeting rooms and also at home. Though, admittedly
| the temporary unpleasantness does frequently lead to
| people postponing opening the windows forever and ever.
| (Once every 90 minutes in a classroom setting might not
| be enough.)
|
| In those settings a CO2 traffic light as an obvious
| visual indicator would be super helpful.
| pasc1878 wrote:
| No it does not.
|
| This is from experience.
|
| The CO2 level in my bedroom gets high whilst I sleep.
|
| I open the window and the CO2 drops quickly but the pollutant
| levels rise.
| Gravityloss wrote:
| I find stuffiness feeling correlates mostly with humidity.
| pasc1878 wrote:
| No it does not.
|
| This is from experience.
|
| The CO2 level in my bedroom gets high whilst I sleep.
|
| I open the window and the CO2 drops quickly but the VOC
| pollutant levels rise.
| crazygringo wrote:
| > _Normally a high CO2 level will go hand in hand with...
| other pollutants that build up at the same time_
|
| No, I think you've got that backwards. It's other pollutants
| that may (but also may not) go hand in hand with CO2.
|
| CO2 is the only pollutant constantly produced by people and
| that works as the main indicator of air quality.
|
| Things like PM2.5 or VOC levels, _if_ they are being produced
| at all, will _also_ be trapped in stale air. But my
| apartment, for example, generates virtually none of those,
| except for when I 'm cooking, when it generates massive
| quantities of PM2.5.
|
| I use a CO2 monitor in my living room and I adjust the crack
| in the window several times a day to keep it around 550
| without wasting too much on heating. It's not even remotely
| common sense, you _absolutely_ need a sensor.
| shafyy wrote:
| > _I use a CO2 monitor in my living room and I adjust the
| crack in the window several times a day to keep it around
| 550 without wasting too much on heating. It 's not even
| remotely common sense, you absolutely need a sensor._
|
| It's more efficient to air out by opening the windows fully
| and creating a draft for a few minutes several times a day
| than to leave the window cracked when it's colder outside.
| crazygringo wrote:
| No it's not.
|
| CO2 levels build up higher than I want within half an
| hour so I'd have to be doing that all day long. And it
| would result in a periodically freezing apartment.
|
| It's much more efficient for me to keep it open a crack.
| shafyy wrote:
| I mean efficient in terms of heating/energy, not CO2
| levels.
| titaniumdafodil wrote:
| Do you have central air, and keep the fan running? I've
| experimented with this at our place and doing a full
| cycle for 5 minutes, then turning the fan to "on" rather
| than "auto" and closing all doors and windows will keep
| it below 700 everywhere for about 6 hours. Otherwise the
| second floor climbs into the 1000's while the first floor
| stays around 500
| not_kurt_godel wrote:
| That's not adequate, at least for me as a relatively
| average sized man in a relatively average sized living
| unit. My respiration is sufficient to raise CO2 levels
| indoors to over 800ppm from background levels within an
| hour without constant ventilation.
| icee wrote:
| I went to a lot of trouble to install an ERV -- a Panasonic
| model. Brought my CO2 levels down from consistently over
| 1200ppm to ~500ppm with people in the house. Hot/humid areas
| make it difficult to bring in fresh air since the moisture in
| the air can lead to all sorts of issues and obviously it's
| very inefficient to have 100 degree air coming into the house
| when you're seeking mid-70s temps indoors. ERVs are designed
| to address these issues.
|
| Check out a video here to see how these things work (this
| demo is an HRV, so it doesn't help with humidity, but you can
| see how well it works when there is a big temperature
| difference between indoors and outdoors).
|
| https://youtu.be/QOSelUK6dpQ?t=436
| sib wrote:
| For those, like me, who didn't know:
|
| ERV == Energy Recovery Ventilator
|
| See
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_recovery_ventilation
| latchkey wrote:
| That's really neat. Haven't seen something like that
| before, thanks for sharing.
| loudmax wrote:
| Thinking about CO2 levels isn't common sense until after
| you've been keeping an eye on one of these gadgets. After
| sitting in a meeting room for an hour, people may find it
| feels warm or stuffy or notice a slight headache, but they
| won't necessarily draw the connection that they really ought
| to open a window or door or adjourn the meeting for a few
| minutes. The importance of breathing fresh air becomes much
| more common sense after you've learned to tell the
| difference.
| throwaway14356 wrote:
| walking outdoors seems the perfect formula
| doitLP wrote:
| As someone who worked too long at an office with non-
| existent ventilation and a fetish for long, closed door
| meetings, my motto became:
|
| "Take a break. Go outside. Walk around the block. Never
| come back."
| throwaway14356 wrote:
| I bet walking while talking is great once people get used
| to it.
| o_m wrote:
| For now. As we keep burning fossil fuels the air outside
| will be like a stuffed meeting room.
| throwaway14356 wrote:
| nah, gladly indoor air is still much worse :)
| [deleted]
| not_kurt_godel wrote:
| > Normally a high CO2 level will go hand in hand with the air
| feeling stuffy from other pollutants that build up at the
| same time, so there's hardly a need to continuously use a CO2
| meter as you can easily notice when the air "goes bad"
|
| Strong disagree based on direct experience. I have a HEPA
| unit that keeps air in the entire living unit clean (from
| VOCs, particulate matter, NO2, etc.) but doesn't alter CO2
| levels. There is little to no human-detectable effect from
| CO2 levels rising up to 2500ppm (according to my separate CO2
| monitor).
| dfadsadsf wrote:
| HEPA filter does not do much for VOC. VOCs, because they
| are gases, are about 1000 times smaller than what HEPA
| filters can capture. You need carbon-based filter to
| neutralize them.
| not_kurt_godel wrote:
| My unit has both HEPA and carbon-based filters. The point
| is, my CO2 levels rise independently of any other
| pollutant and it's not reliably detectable by a human as
| far as I can tell.
| Filligree wrote:
| How often do you swap the carbon filter?
|
| My understanding, admittedly driven by 3D printing, is
| that they only last about a week before the substrate
| degrades. Fortunately activated carbon is cheap.
| not_kurt_godel wrote:
| Variable, between 6 months and a year, per the
| manufacturer's recommendation and unit's ability to sense
| when the filter needs replacing. It seems like you're
| saying yours only last a week because you're constantly
| generating fumes from 3D printing? I don't do anything
| like that. I would be curious to get some kind of
| independent measurement of effectiveness of a new filter
| over time (and I suppose I will from my air monitor next
| time I replace). But again, the point is my separate air
| quality monitor shows increases in CO2 that are not
| associated with rise in any of the other 4 detectable
| pollutants it measures.
| Filligree wrote:
| What I've been told is that the carbon filter will stop
| absorbing VOCs after a week, regardless of how much I use
| the printer. Considering that some of them are
| carcinogens, I'm not taking any chances.
|
| Presumably this should also hold for other carbon
| filters, then, but I don't know how I would verify that.
| dghughes wrote:
| >Normally a high CO2 level will go hand in hand with the air
| feeling stuffy
|
| I bought my Dad a NetAtmo weather station one part is outside
| and one is inside.
|
| During Christmas with guests over I looked and saw the CO2
| was 1000ppm it felt very stuffy (no air handler in an old
| house). I opened a window and let some fresh cool air in and
| CO2 out. It felt so much better.
|
| It was nice to know why it felt stuffy. It wasn't just all
| the turkey and potatoes that I had eaten.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Sensirion makes a decent photoacoustic-based sensor called the
| SCD41. It's about 30 bucks in volume.
|
| Other models are laser based (NDIR) and more expensive.
|
| There's also eCO2 which is estimated based on VOC levels and
| basically useless.
|
| So in other words, adding real CO2 would increase the price a
| lot. At least double it (since the sensor cost isn't the only
| factor obviously)
|
| This would totally change the value proposition and target
| market. I guess they did their research and decided against it.
| There's other devices that do CO2 for around $100.
| peterbraden wrote:
| The SCD40 series is a pain to calibrate - it will drift out
| of calibration unless it's left outside at some points. It's
| not ideal for consumer electronics.
| woefblaf123 wrote:
| This is not unique to the SCD40 series. This applies also
| to NDIR based sensors. They also need to 'see' outside air
| on a weekly basis.
|
| It's just the way CO2 sensing tech works.
| fotta wrote:
| Not necessarily. The SCD series can have auto calibration
| turned off. You take it outside once and baseline that to
| 400ppm. The drift on the sensor is rated very low (+-50
| ppm over the sensor's lifetime). This is what I do with
| my SCD30.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Interesting, I didn't know that, I've only used them in
| auto mode. I also have SCD30s, the 40s are a pain in the
| ** to solder and they were hard to get because they are
| new.
|
| I wonder why they don't just calibrate them off the
| factory line then? I mean, 50ppm is not much. In auto
| mode you won't get much better accuracy than that because
| you don't always air the house well enough to get down to
| 400 (let alone in a city's CO2 bubble).
| [deleted]
| smhg wrote:
| On the Czech IKEA website it's listed with a price of 999 CZK
| [0]. This is about 42 EUR.
|
| [0] https://www.ikea.com/cz/cs/p/vindstyrka-senzor-kvality-
| vzduc...
| marbu wrote:
| On the other hand, it's already reported as "soul out".
| pjc50 wrote:
| Not yet available in the UK at all, sadly.
| tpmx wrote:
| That includes 21% VAT. So $37 + sales tax.
| rishikeshs wrote:
| Is it possible to build a similar one using Arduino?
| KerrickStaley wrote:
| Look up AirGradient.
| robg wrote:
| LG has a purifier and sensor combo that I used to learn we were
| likely aerosolizing heavy metals in our humidifiers.
| somehnguy wrote:
| My air purifier's meter goes into the red whenever I use the
| shower down the hall from it - it did the same thing as my
| previous home as well. I've always just assumed it's a side-
| effect of the raised humidity.
| dalyons wrote:
| What did you do about this? I just noticed the same thing with
| my purpleair indoor (goes crazy on pm2.5 when I run the
| humidifier)
| thimkerbell wrote:
| Two points:
|
| First, as noted by many below (above), IKEA really needs to put a
| CO2 monitor in this thing, to tell room occupants the most useful
| information.
|
| Second, one person being confidently wrong can use up a lot of
| other people's time. Maybe there's some way that forum design
| could reduce this problem. Maybe there isn't.
| thimkerbell wrote:
| (One thing that might aid reader skimming could be a 2nd step
| of offering the commenter something like 60 characters' worth
| of mild highlighting, to apply to their comment where they
| wish, to stress most important point(s), if they want to.)
| skrebbel wrote:
| > Second, one person being confidently wrong can use up a lot
| of other people's time. Maybe there's some way that forum
| design could reduce this problem. Maybe there isn't.
|
| Is this like an HN subtweet or am I just daft? I have
| absolutely no idea which comment you're referring to here.
| turtlebits wrote:
| While I agree that CO2 sensors are useful, they'll
| significantly add to the price. High CO2 levels in a home
| aren't a health risk unlike PM2.5 or VOCs though.
| idiotsecant wrote:
| Is CO2 level useful, though? Our bodies are really
| exceptionally good at detecting harmful CO2 levels. There's
| very little effect to CO2 buildup in air up to levels that
| people are good at detecting. VOCs, PM2.5, and other
| contaminant classes are not so easily detected by human
| hardware, though.
| valenterry wrote:
| There's something between "perfectly fine" and "harmful"
| though. bad co2 levels can impact concentration without being
| harmful.
| glitcher wrote:
| Off topic: upon first opening this web page I was surprised to
| think that maybe I had already visited all the links in the
| article. Then I realized purple is one of the site's primary
| colors, and both visited and unvisited links look the same there.
| KerrickStaley wrote:
| I've been very happy with my AirGradient [1]. It measures PM2.5,
| CO2, temperature, and humidity. I got the $67 kit and assembled
| it; it was a fun soldering project. I like that I can reflash it
| and get it to send data to VictoriaMetrics on my Raspberry Pi
| over WiFi. The biggest thing that I dislike is that the CO2
| sensor loses calibration over time and (from what I understand)
| needs to be re-exposed to fresh outdoor air every ~2 weeks.
|
| I might buy this IKEA sensor too to see how they compare;
| wouldn't hurt to be able to monitor a second room.
|
| [1] https://www.airgradient.com/
| thebruce87m wrote:
| A well ventilated room should return to outside ppm levels
| during the day if unoccupied.
| vestrigi wrote:
| Isn't the recalibration even a problem of all CO2 sensors,
| including the IKEA model?
| Toutouxc wrote:
| IKEA doesn't sell a CO2 sensor.
| jeffreygoesto wrote:
| With a Bosch Bme680 you can detect farts. Take that, CO2
| enthusiasts... =;-}
| BossingAround wrote:
| Looks interesting; is there a blog somewhere detailing how to
| hook the sensor up to Raspberry Pi or something similar?
| hobo_mark wrote:
| You literally connect four wires and `pip install bme680`.
| chewmieser wrote:
| There's plenty of air quality monitors out there already. Doesn't
| seem like this does anything unique, but I'll be interested in
| seeing the price when it's available.
|
| I personally use an Atomotube Pro (https://store.atmotube.com/)
| which also has the added benefit of being portable.
| gizmodo59 wrote:
| It looks good. But the reviews on Amazon says it's not having a
| good battery life. How's it for you? I don't need to travel
| that much so I can keep it plugged in all the time?
| chewmieser wrote:
| Battery life is fine, not amazing but fine. I can usually get
| around a week or so of battery life depending on what I'm
| using it for. I usually leave it near an outlet anyway so I
| can plug it in periodically. The portable nature of the
| device is a nice-to-have for me but I usually just use it in
| my home.
|
| One thing that it lacks is WiFi connectivity - all syncing
| needs to be done via bluetooth. Which makes sense since it's
| portable but WiFi would be nice when it's at home. But the
| device is open and their site gives you ways to make it WiFi
| compatible if you so desired.
|
| I originally found it through a report that showed it as
| effective as expensive air quality testing gear. It happened
| to be the only portable one as well that rated that well.
| joshvm wrote:
| A big benefit would be ZigBee integration. Not particularly
| unique, but IKEA tend to do a reasonable job in terms of
| quality and price and their smart home bits are easy to connect
| to HomeAssistant. They claim it can talk to STARKVIND, so it
| should have that capability. They seem to be a bit more
| reliable than Aqara/Xiaomi (battery life seems to be variable
| for me).
| a_paddy wrote:
| IKEA's marketing material say it's not compatible with the
| Tradfri Hub, so might be using Matter over Thread. Although
| the DIRIGERA does still also support ZigBee, they are moving
| away from it.
| tecleandor wrote:
| I've seen in websites that it's Matter compatible (although
| I haven't seen that information in their press release)
|
| Edit: I guess people are extrapolating that info on being
| compatible with their DIRIGERA Hub, that seems to be Matter
| compatible.
|
| 9to5mac reports this info: Update 2/15:
| IKEA has shared with us that the DIRIGERA smart hub doesn't
| have Matter support yet (after its launch last fall), but
| it is "ready" to enable it with a future update. As noted
| below, the new air quality monitor does not have HomeKit or
| Matter capability on its own but can gain it when paired
| with the DIRIGERA but only after IKEA pushes the Matter
| update to the hub. We've reached out to IKEA asking about a
| Matter launch date.
|
| https://9to5mac.com/2023/02/14/ikea-smart-indoor-air-
| quality...
| djhworld wrote:
| > Not particularly unique, but IKEA tend to do a reasonable
| job
|
| I'd say they do a great job.
|
| While they offer hub and app (not sure if the app is cloud
| connected) for less technical users, most of the 'smart'
| product line is just zigbee so will work with any zigbee
| gateway. I think that should be applauded, especially as
| other "smart" product providers either go bust or pull
| product lines rendering them useless.
| folly237 wrote:
| Maybe I'm out of the loop since moving away from any IKEA store 6
| years ago...but this feels a bit out of the ordinary for them,
| doesn't it? To me, IKEA = "build your own furniture". Not "smart
| home tech".
| jeromegv wrote:
| They have been selling TVs for many years.
| BossingAround wrote:
| I'm sure people said that too when Amazon was launching AWS.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| Way out of the loop. IKEA now sells loads of smart home tech:
| smart lightbulbs, LED drivers, motion sensors, light switches,
| power outlets, air purifiers, motorized window shades and even
| amazing smart speakers (designed by IKEA, but fully compatible
| Sonos internals with respectable sound quality).
| bborud wrote:
| Looks like it uses this particle sensor:
| https://www.environmental-expert.com/products/cubic-model-pm...
| Toutouxc wrote:
| > IKEA already has a side table that doubles as an air purifier,
| but now it has a way to gauge just how clean that air really is
|
| Please note that the purifier/table combo and the standalone
| purifier, both called Starkvind, already have a PM2.5 sensor and
| are smart (Zigbee) devices.
| input_sh wrote:
| Worth pointing out that they already had a sensor, but it didn't
| have a screen, just LEDs that turned from green to red.
|
| For price reference, it's $16.
| https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/vindriktning-air-quality-sensor...
| BossingAround wrote:
| Which is notoriously imprecise [1].
|
| [1] https://www.airgradient.com/open-airgradient/blog/ikea-
| vindr...
| wartijn_ wrote:
| That article is linked a few times in these comments, but I
| think it should be noted that that article is written by a
| competitor. Airgradient is a commercial company that sells
| air quality sensors. And it seems to be the only source that
| states the Ikea sensor is imprecise, so I wouldn't call it
| "notoriously imprecise"
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Makes sense, it would help sell their air purifier. Still could
| be useful by it self but if you are already concerned about air
| quality, this will push you to confirm your fears.
|
| The product development team there is rolling
| adolph wrote:
| So like: air sensor ($) -> air purifier ($) -> filters for
| previous ($$$ over time)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor_and_blades_model
| londons_explore wrote:
| Could an air quality sensor be made by using a spark gap and then
| a spectrometry on the light produced by the spark?
|
| You should be able to measure CO2, NOX, and various other
| pollutants this way, either via emission or absorption
| spectroscopy. For solid PM2.5 pollution, you could potentially
| identify the chemical make up of the particles, which should be
| good for identifying the iron metal dust from machines, the stone
| dust from building work, the organic skin dust, the rubber dust
| from tyres, the carbon dust from engines, etc.
|
| Seems like a single cheap sensor that might be able to provide a
| lot more info than other more complex sensor types.
| slavoingilizov wrote:
| Honest question - monitoring air quality accurately is great, but
| monitoring doesn't solve problems. Once you know it's bad, what
| do you do? I've been wondering what's the point of monitoring
| something if you can't do anything about it? Do people move house
| when it's consistently bad? Are the majority of issues caused by
| in-house pollutants so you open windows for ventilation more?
| Maybe I'm biased but in my neck of the woods, the bad air quality
| comes from _outside_. So unless I up sticks, not much else to do.
| jabroni_salad wrote:
| I'm bad with pollen and air filters have been good for me. It's
| just on a timer though, I don't use any fancy sensors.
| alias_neo wrote:
| I built a PM2.5 and PM10 monitoring "box" for Home Assistant
| when we got our log-stove installed.
|
| The goal was to know how bad the air quality would be in our
| living room / home.
|
| Having used it for several weeks, now I've learned a couple of
| things;
|
| The air quality _in_ the house is usually _much_ better than it
| is outside, for example, I measure an average of 1-2ug/m3
| inside, but if I take it outside or open the window it can rise
| to 20-30ug/m3, we live on a fairly busy road. I looked into the
| UK air quality guidelines and the advice is literally to "close
| your windows".
|
| Second, the log stove has no effect on the (PM) air quality in
| the living room when burning properly, however, opening the
| door to refuel, or not lighting it to a proper burn can cause
| the levels to shoot up to 70ug/m3 or as high as 200ug/m3 if you
| let a lot of smoke out while dicking around with the fire, this
| has a pretty slow fall-off and usually takes hours to drop back
| to "normal".
|
| I want a CO2 monitor next to check CO2 levels too.
| karmelapple wrote:
| Do you have a CO2 or other air monitor at your home? Do you
| have a gas oven? Every time I turned on my gas oven, the CO2
| would spike from 600ppm to over 1200ppm almost immediately. I
| wouldn't have known that without a meter, and wouldn't have
| realized my air quality was bad inside.
| blago wrote:
| Air purifiers work pretty well for most kinds of pollution, and
| they are widely available.
| BelleOfTheBall wrote:
| You can use methods of cleaning the air in your house, I assume
| things like humidifiers and specialized air
| conditioning/cleaning units exist. The point of these sensors
| is to show the problem actually exists. If thousands of people
| suddenly find out their home air is compromised, that will then
| create a demand for air purification tools.
| seltzered_ wrote:
| Worth reminding of this blog post concerning cheap air quality
| monitoring systems:
| https://halestrom.net/darksleep/blog/048_indoorairsensing/
| KaiserPro wrote:
| has anyone found the price of these?
|
| I have some second hand awair sensors, which I got for about
| PS50. They are brilliant, but cost PS200 new.
| BossingAround wrote:
| ~40EUR on the Czech Ikea website that someone posted here.
| donutshop wrote:
| Unpopular opinion - Airthings make very good air quality sensors,
| and detects radon levels as well.
| Toutouxc wrote:
| That's not even an opinion, much less an unpopular one.
| yalogin wrote:
| These sensors can only estimate based on what passes through
| them. So is it a good enough approximation for the whole room let
| alone the whole house? I get it that the very presence of some
| particles at some density will tell a story. Since we know where
| we are placing that device we have to extrapolate the numbers and
| get an overall sense of pollution in the house. Can folks that
| use something like this chime in with experience and how
| effective or useful this is?
| fbn79 wrote:
| It's important to know that accuracy of this sensor are very low
| https://www.airgradient.com/open-airgradient/blog/ikea-vindr...
| MaxPengwing wrote:
| not the same device. Would be nice if they did a tear down of
| Vindstyrka as well.
| zihotki wrote:
| While absolute accuracy is low, you still can use it to see the
| trend. Often the trend and approximate measurements are good
| enough. Edit: spelling
| danuker wrote:
| Looks like the new device has a screen and is called
| Vindstyrka, and the one reviewed is an old one with LED
| indicators, Vindriktning.
| [deleted]
| tecleandor wrote:
| Be aware that review is not for this product, but for the
| previous one. I don't know if they're using the same sensors
| inside.
|
| Edit: to be clear, the new product is called VINDSTYRKA, the
| review you link is for Vindriktning, the previous "non smart"
| sensor.
| [deleted]
| rjsw wrote:
| The owner of the ISP that I use has been experimenting with
| making his own [1].
|
| [1] https://www.revk.uk/2019/09/environmental-sensor.html
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