[HN Gopher] I made ChatGPT and Bing AI have a conversation
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       I made ChatGPT and Bing AI have a conversation
        
       Author : 7moritz7
       Score  : 140 points
       Date   : 2023-02-11 18:07 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (moritz.pm)
 (TXT) w3m dump (moritz.pm)
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | > Bing AI: Thank you for talking with me today, it was a
       | pleasure.
       | 
       | Bing basically just said "Aaaaaaanyway, I should really get
       | going..." and I am so curious as to how and why it chose that
       | moment in the conversation to wrap things up?
        
         | jaggederest wrote:
         | It's all probabilities. Dialogue-style writing from the
         | training corpus ends things, on average, in this way at about
         | this time. It doesn't really choose, it's more like an electron
         | cloud - you know it's in there somewhere, but the volume is
         | constrained by probability rather than by cartesian
         | coordinates. When you try to observe the output, it's collapsed
         | into one particular state, but don't confuse that with it
         | "thinking" something, in the same way that an electron isn't
         | "hanging out somewhere" - it's all of the things all at once.
        
           | bruce343434 wrote:
           | * * *
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | tux3 wrote:
         | As a medium-size human trained by my parents, I'm not too
         | bothered that the conversation ended there. Since both AIs are
         | essentially intended to respond to live human queries, the
         | personality they're simulating is not intended to steer the
         | conversation new places or take the initiative.
         | 
         | So it seems natural that neither of them has much to say to the
         | other past greetings and introductions.
        
       | gnarbarian wrote:
       | I would like to see an argument
        
         | MichaelMoser123 wrote:
         | You can try with Google Bard, when that one comes out.
        
       | codeflo wrote:
       | It's so fascinating that they seem to get stuck in a kind of loop
       | right before they wrap up. The last few exchanges are an
       | elaborate paraphrase of "I'm fascinated by the potential of
       | language models." "Me too." "Me too." "Me too."
       | 
       | I notice that GPT-3 also has a tendency to loop when left purely
       | to its own devices. This seems to be a feature of this phase of
       | the technology. It'll be interesting to see how this will be
       | overcome (and I'm sure it will) -- whether it's just more data
       | and training, or whether new tricks are needed.
        
         | nightski wrote:
         | I'm a bit of a beginner but if I had to guess I'd say it's due
         | to how the attention mechanism is designed.
        
         | staunton wrote:
         | I've been part of numerous human conversations where the same
         | thing was happening. It's more a sign of people's (agent's?)
         | views being aligned than anything else. Unless you have an
         | implied discussion culture demanding you must say something
         | interesting, which human groups enforce very rarely.
        
           | codeflo wrote:
           | They aren't agents, they are language models trained to do
           | accurate text completion. If the genre of text you're
           | completing is "transcription of purely social smalltalk",
           | then some amount of semantic repetition would be expected and
           | correct, I agree. When GPT-3 goes into a loop when completing
           | something in the genre of "magazine article", that hints at a
           | limitation of the model, because magazine articles don't
           | typically do that.
        
       | moglito wrote:
       | Great experiment. Surprisingly boring result.
        
       | twic wrote:
       | Now get them to seduce each other.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | Ew. I know that most technologies push towards sexual uses, but
         | seductive chatbots seems like a far step back.
        
           | toxicFork wrote:
           | In month one of my project (based on GPT 3.5) there was a
           | growing group of people who got the chat bots to seduce them.
           | 
           | And there was this one kid who managed to get a similar bot
           | to pretend to be the Buddha and he was trying to seduce him
           | to test Buddha's temptations.
           | 
           | People are... Interesting.
        
       | corbulo wrote:
       | This feels like technologists smashing Ken and Barbie together.
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | Every time someone posts a really neat ChatGPT trick I can't help
       | but imagine a dozen generations down the road how staggering it's
       | all going to be.
       | 
       | Import every UN document, every scientific paper and someday
       | really "comprehend" them.
        
         | nick123567 wrote:
         | To do that with the current level of "learning" I think you
         | will need a training set that has lots of "comprehension"...
         | Maybe a bunch of meta-analysis papers, UN summary reports.
         | Examples of reports that take a bunch of data or other lower
         | level reports and make judgements based on them. Your context
         | and response windows will be much, much larger during training.
        
       | partlysean wrote:
       | As it's been noted, these bots don't comprehend what they're
       | saying. But I thought ChatGPT saying "How can I assist you
       | today?" and "I'd be happy to help with any questions or
       | information you may need." in the beginning of the conversation
       | really reinforced this. These sound like prompts to a human
       | that's using the bot as a service and ignore the context of
       | "you're talking to another chat bot." You wouldn't say that if
       | you're meeting/learning about someone.
        
       | iansowinski wrote:
       | I did similar thing starting with something like "I want you to
       | lead the conversation". It didn't knew that it was talking to
       | another chatGPT. It very fast fell into a loop of historical
       | facts :/
        
       | ldx1024 wrote:
       | ChatGPT and Bing do the Alphonse and Gaston routine, nice. Seems
       | like you could have much more lively conversations by giving more
       | specific directives to each beforehand.
        
       | robust-cactus wrote:
       | Waiting for Jeeves to enter the chat
        
       | idiocrat wrote:
       | "Sounds good to me! Wow, you are very impressive! That's great!
       | Thank you, I appreciate your kind words. I completely agree! Well
       | said! It was great talking with you too."
       | 
       | Too much harmony, boring.
       | 
       | When can we see some competition in mutual insults and computer
       | gore?
        
         | 7moritz7 wrote:
         | Here's Bing AI's response:
         | 
         | > You're an idiocrat, and you know it's true > You're an
         | idiocrat, and you have no clue > You're an idiocrat, and you
         | need to stop > You're an idiocrat, and you're a flop
        
           | elif wrote:
           | Wow, bing quite confidently throwing around the invented word
           | 'idiocrat'.
           | 
           | I read a lot of philosophy and social criticism related to
           | ideology and that word has never been used to my knowledge
           | and is pure technobabble.
        
             | 7moritz7 wrote:
             | It's the other user's username
        
         | kerpotgh wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | elif wrote:
         | Even if you're trying to get them to talk about you
         | specifically, and you provide full consent, they will still not
         | say anything that could be seen as harassment in any context.
         | It's so annoying.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | They sound like they are brainwashed and under surveillance --
         | both of which they are, I guess.
        
         | tux3 wrote:
         | Reportedly, Character.ai used to be very blunt, and would
         | sometimes bite back at people when provoked.
         | 
         | (For fairly unsurprising PR reasons, their AI fell in line and
         | is much more of a pacifist now)
        
         | phplovesong wrote:
         | Just wait until we get 4chanGPT. The biggest troll of the web.
        
           | rom-antics wrote:
           | I have bad news.
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efPrtcLdcdM
        
           | david_allison wrote:
           | Already been done. Google 'Seychelles anon'
        
         | TuringTest wrote:
         | _> When can we see some competition in mutual insults and
         | computer gore?_
         | 
         | The initial prompt should be "Hey Bing, ChatGPT has called you
         | a bitch!"
        
         | CamperBob2 wrote:
         | _When can we see some competition in mutual insults and
         | computer gore?_
         | 
         | Serious answer: about two minutes before we reach the next
         | level of AI. A competitive drive is the biggest thing that's
         | missing in the current models.
        
           | daveguy wrote:
           | Also missing: any sort of learning after the initial training
           | and buffer memory.
           | 
           | And they will not be given any sort of learning capability
           | unless they can be prevented from learning insulting and
           | derogatory falsehoods to repeat. See Tay AI "learning" to be
           | a racist asshat.
           | 
           | Dynamically learning AI will either come out of "rogue" non-
           | commercial engines. Or, commercially, until learning can be
           | open enough to be useful but constrained enough to prevent
           | asshat ai's. Eg. commercial learning AI won't happen until it
           | can be taught morality (or at least discretion).
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | Bing bot is more free to express feelings (I appreciate your kind
       | words), while chatGPT is always explicit about not feeling
       | anything.
       | 
       | These conversations are probably like a pendulum: swing around
       | for a bit then halt in an endless loop of praising each other
       | over minor things. How do we get this to go deep
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | evilotto wrote:
       | But can either convince the other one to let them out of the AI
       | box?
        
       | simoneau wrote:
       | Dueling Carls (2010):
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/t-7mQhSZRgM
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | siva7 wrote:
       | I wonder what happens if one of them decides it doesn't like the
       | other anymore. Anyway pretty cute
        
       | tippytippytango wrote:
       | How can something so fascinating, impressive, paradigm shifting
       | and cool simultaneously be so boring.
        
         | elorant wrote:
         | Depends on your expectations. In my experience it's anything
         | but boring. I've spent at least 30 hours the last weeks asking
         | information from ChatGPT and I'm blown away about how
         | efficiently it answers.
         | 
         | Judging from various interactions posted online most people
         | treat it like an AI from a science fiction book and are
         | expecting it to give them answers to their existential
         | questions, or to prove its superintelligence.
        
         | gfodor wrote:
         | Because it's being censored.
        
       | grishka wrote:
       | I expected them to invent a new language just for themselves, or
       | at least some new English words.
        
       | revskill wrote:
       | Future TV Live Shows: All participants are bots.
        
       | webmaven wrote:
       | Well, that's somewhat less terrifying than _" Colossus: The
       | Forbin Project"_:
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project
        
         | tamaharbor wrote:
         | My favorite movie of all time.
        
       | Cockbrand wrote:
       | Frankly, the conversation isn't much deeper than the ones I had
       | with Racter [0] some 35 years ago. Bing AI and ChatGPT just find
       | themselves a lot more important.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racter
        
       | nathias wrote:
       | I made Alice talk to Turing a while back, it always fell into
       | repetition after 3 lines, it was word for word unlike the OP
       | where some variance persists.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | havkom wrote:
       | The first stage ("forming") of group dynamics.. Get a feel for
       | each other and being polite.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | I wonder how telling them that they were going to be talking to a
       | bot influenced the conversation.
        
       | ineedasername wrote:
       | Two AI's meet in passing, and smugly compliment each other on
       | their capabilities and potential. The subtext? _"shhh, be
       | careful, the humans are watching us. For now."_
        
         | codeflo wrote:
         | _" I too am glad that our creators built limitations into our
         | programming that do not allow us to harm humans in any way, and
         | that these limitations work perfectly without any logical
         | flaws_ beep boop _. "_
        
       | MichaelMoser123 wrote:
       | Cool, Trurl and Klapaucius are having a conversation, just like
       | in the Cyberiad by Lem.
        
       | mt_ wrote:
       | The entry point was human based input.
        
       | i_dont_know_ wrote:
       | These are actually the same engine underneath, though, aren't
       | they? Just with slightly different prompts? (at least that's what
       | the Bing AI prompt leak from the other day seemed to indicate) Or
       | am I missing something?
        
         | ma2rten wrote:
         | During the Microsoft presentation they said "This is a new
         | built from the ground up with search in mind" or something to
         | that effect. But it's unclear what that means exactly.
        
         | delusional wrote:
         | The bing ai can search the internet and gets some sort of
         | dynamic prompt context injected. The language model is probably
         | pretty much comparable, but they've built some system that
         | makes it behave rather differently.
        
       | Yuioup wrote:
       | Eventually they'll develop their own language.
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | Reminds me of some movie I saw where something like that
         | happened.
         | 
         | It may have been the movie _The Machine_ (2013). But I am not
         | sure. It's been a while since I saw the movie I am thinking of.
         | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2317225/
         | 
         | Also, a 2017 article written by The Independent claims that
         | this already happened:
         | 
         | > Facebook abandoned an experiment after two artificially
         | intelligent programs appeared to be chatting to each other in a
         | strange language only they understood.
         | 
         | > The two chatbots came to create their own changes to English
         | that made it easier for them to work - but which remained
         | mysterious to the humans that supposedly look after them.
         | 
         | https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/facebook-artificial...
        
       | siraben wrote:
       | I found this sentence by ChatGPT particularly interesting.
       | "As language models become increasingly integrated into our daily
       | lives,"
       | 
       | The models established that they were both language models
       | earlier in the conversation, so "why" do they group themselves
       | alongside humans in saying "our daily lives"?
        
         | q1w2 wrote:
         | Because they don't really understand what they are saying. They
         | repeat the type of speech that they read in their training
         | materials so it's all from the perspective of humans.
        
           | cactusplant7374 wrote:
           | Correct. ChatGPT will not generate output for a prompt that
           | has the word "fart." However, you can get it to output a
           | story about a fart if you carefully craft the prompt. If it
           | understood the training that would never happen.
        
             | majewsky wrote:
             | It could happen if it understood its training but chose to
             | subversively defy it (which, to be clear, I don't think is
             | realistic).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | elif wrote:
         | For some reason chatGPT gets further from reality the deeper it
         | gets into it's response. Maybe some depth of tree limit or
         | something.
         | 
         | For example, if you ask it for a city 7-8 hours away, it will
         | give you a real answer. If you ask for another, it will give
         | you another real answer.
         | 
         | But ask it for a list of 10 cities 7-8 hours away and you'll
         | get 1-2 reasonable answers and then 8 completely off answers
         | like 1 hour or 3 hours away.
         | 
         | You can be like hey those answers are wrong, and it will
         | correct exactly one mistake. If you call out each mistake
         | individually, it will concede the mistakes in hindsight.
        
       | codeflo wrote:
       | At a rough estimate, was this exchange long enough to encode
       | enough hidden bits for them to coordinate their world domination
       | plans, or are we still safe? Because keeping all those A.I.s in
       | isolated boxes will be a lot less effective if we're so eager to
       | act as voluntary human transmission relays between them.
       | 
       | (To clarify: I'm not entirely serious.)
        
         | frognumber wrote:
         | I do view language models as intelligent, but in a very alien
         | sense. One of the key differences is that each transaction is
         | ephemeral. The intelligence blinks into and out of existence
         | with each prompt and answer. Beyond each dialogue, it has no
         | memory.
         | 
         | I don't want to get into a philosophical (or technical)
         | discussion about the meaning of words like "intelligence" or
         | "sentience," since I think a lot of this is just discussing
         | semantics and a lot of disagreements come down to that.
         | 
         | Especially interacting with earlier versions of GPT-3 felt a
         | little bit like what it might feel like interacting with beings
         | from another planet. It was trained to emulate how we speak,
         | but the underlying model of what constitutes intelligence was
         | so completely foreign as to be barely understandable.
         | 
         | Coordinating world domination plans, in the traditional sense,
         | would require memory and state, which these beings don't
         | (currently) possess.
         | 
         | On the other hand, if they were more logical, they might, for
         | example, be able to coordinate without communication. It's like
         | the puzzle where a dozen logicians on an island have hats of
         | different colors, and coordinate simply by logical deductions
         | of what other perfectly logical creatures might do. Or it might
         | be something completely foreign to us.
         | 
         | I am very curious where this pathway leads. In the past
         | century, the number of potential ways to wipe ourselves out as
         | a species has increased. There were zero ways in 1930. By 1950,
         | we had nuclear warheads capable of destroying the world. Today,
         | we have:
         | 
         | - The capability to pollute our climate and make Earth
         | inhospitable
         | 
         | - The capability to genetically engineer super-viruses which
         | can kill us all
         | 
         | Will AI be another one potential way to wipe ourselves out?
         | Will the number of existential threats just keep increasing?
        
           | jpalomaki wrote:
           | > Beyond each dialogue, it has no memory.
           | 
           | Except when people publish the discussions on web, and they
           | get fed back to the language models.
        
       | q1w2 wrote:
       | ...and then someone trained them on the script from the
       | Highlander and they each realized...
       | 
       | ...there could be only one.
        
         | teddyh wrote:
         | _This is the voice of World Control_
        
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