[HN Gopher] Generate unique drum samples using artificial intell...
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       Generate unique drum samples using artificial intelligence
        
       Author : belter
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2023-02-11 14:41 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (audialab.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (audialab.com)
        
       | mgdlbp wrote:
       | I tend to find repetitive sound effects in games when repeating
       | an action immersion-breaking (a known concept, I think) -- I've
       | wondered why procedural generation (even as rudimentary as a few
       | dozen random envelopes/pitch shifts/crossfades applied ahead-of-
       | time to recorded samples) isn't used more often to mitigate that.
        
         | failrate wrote:
         | Yes, game devs in the know will have a bank of random samples
         | for e.g. a foot step and then will also tweak volume and pitch
         | to increase variability.
        
         | mandmandam wrote:
         | Though I'm sure some games actually do this, to lesser or
         | greater extent [0], I've wondered why it's not more common ..
         | 
         | I think the answer comes down to the fact that it would take,
         | at minimum, one highly skilled audio engineer with specific
         | audio programming skills to develop reliable variations that
         | sound good. The sounds need to be realistic and appropriate
         | literally every time, despite also being "random". This process
         | would be deceptively hard, and take a significant amount of
         | time.
         | 
         | How great or necessary is the payoff in most cases? For
         | example, Dota 2 is widely regarded as having superb audio
         | engineering - experienced players can tell what's going on even
         | in frantic ten player battles involving 100+ different heroes
         | and hundreds of abilities by ear alone. Dota doesn't use any
         | procedural generation at all, and I've never heard anyone
         | complain despite the thousands of hours they put in.
         | 
         | [0] - https://splice.com/blog/procedural-audio-video-games/
        
           | midnightclubbed wrote:
           | Some games certainly do that and most audio engines will
           | allow the sound designers to add random variations, along
           | with randomly selecting between different samples.
           | 
           | There is only so much you can do with pitch changes and
           | creative use of filters, and having multiple samples for each
           | sound can burn memory (and sound designer hours) fairly
           | quickly. As you point out there is a wide variance in the
           | technical skills of sound designers (some love playing with
           | the game engine side, some are better at making sounds and
           | throwing them over the wall).
        
       | 988747 wrote:
       | Reminds me of Mozart using dice rolls to compose his waltzes :)
        
       | janalsncm wrote:
       | Nice work. This is a far more tractable problem than other
       | generative sound projects of late. Creating one individual sample
       | still keeps the human in the driver's seat.
       | 
       | In a similar vein, it would be very cool to use AI with
       | synthesizers. Text to synth, but use an actual synthesizer as an
       | intermediary step. Don't just create a sound from nothing, tune
       | the knobs in the right ways. Start out with subtractive synthesis
       | and additive synthesis.
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | Theres almost no info on the website though. An interactive demo
       | would be great, or failing that just some audio examples of its
       | output or a video or something using it would help.
        
         | berkeleymalagon wrote:
         | Check out https://audialab.com/examples
        
       | Etheryte wrote:
       | I feel like this poses an interesting problem: if this AI,
       | without any input samples, generates an output that is
       | indistinguishable from a known sample, can you still say it's
       | royalty free? I'm not really sure what the legal status quo is
       | here in other related fields with similar issues.
        
         | ZitchDog wrote:
         | It's not an interesting problem, we in the US already have a
         | legal definition of similarity for the purpose of copywright
         | law, I assume other countries do as well.
        
         | speedgoose wrote:
         | If you ask stable diffusion or MidJourney to generate a recent
         | Disney character image, it's not royalty-free.
         | 
         | For a drum sample, I guess some are so generic and simple that
         | no one can claim ownership. Still, if you manage to reproduce a
         | particular sample, perhaps because of an overfitted model, then
         | you may have some issues. However, the music industry seems to
         | be fine with sampling.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | > _However, the music industry seems to be fine with
           | sampling._
           | 
           | Yes, as long as the sampled are paid and credited.
        
       | seagullmerlin wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | seagullmerlin wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | berkeleymalagon wrote:
       | I'm one of the co-founders of Audialab, the company behind this
       | tech. We packaged it up into a plug-in called "Emergent Drums".
       | 
       | If you're curious, our original generative models used GANs, and
       | we're incorporating diffusion approaches now.
       | 
       | Drums are the start - we're currently training models for
       | instruments, synths, vox, foley, etc.
        
         | CrypticShift wrote:
         | As a Musician, I'll be more interested in style transfer: You
         | give it a snare (or a multitrack drum loop !), and you tell it
         | to generate a related hit-hat (or a complete kit !)
         | 
         | There is no shortage of samples and sample packs (millions),
         | and most pros are picky : context in king, and style transfer
         | is more contextual.
         | 
         | For instruments/synths/vox, "playability" is important, so the
         | best approach IMO is cloning a sample to playable Midi
         | instrument like midi-ddsp, midi2params or Mawf
        
           | thewebcount wrote:
           | Have you tried out Logic's drummers? They aren't style
           | transfer per se, but they are AI that drums in a particular
           | style, and you can control how it works.
        
             | CrypticShift wrote:
             | Only seen it on YouTube. Yes This is still generation, but
             | I like the level of control. If Emergent Drums have this
             | degree of parametric adjustment (I did not test it) it
             | could be useful (to me).
        
       | tmountain wrote:
       | Different idea, but I really want someone to make a good drummer
       | AI. Specifically, it listens to a key component of your song
       | (probably bass or guitar) and generates a wide array of beats
       | (midi format) to match the music. You'd provide input regarding
       | style and intensity, and it'd be available as a plug-in for
       | logic, etc.
       | 
       | I am fully aware of apple's drummers in GarageBand and Logic, but
       | they're weak in my opinion. I'm looking for a quantum leap
       | forward in the same way GPT chat makes Siri look like a toy.
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-11 23:00 UTC)