[HN Gopher] Generate unique drum samples using artificial intell...
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Generate unique drum samples using artificial intelligence
Author : belter
Score : 52 points
Date : 2023-02-11 14:41 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (audialab.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (audialab.com)
| mgdlbp wrote:
| I tend to find repetitive sound effects in games when repeating
| an action immersion-breaking (a known concept, I think) -- I've
| wondered why procedural generation (even as rudimentary as a few
| dozen random envelopes/pitch shifts/crossfades applied ahead-of-
| time to recorded samples) isn't used more often to mitigate that.
| failrate wrote:
| Yes, game devs in the know will have a bank of random samples
| for e.g. a foot step and then will also tweak volume and pitch
| to increase variability.
| mandmandam wrote:
| Though I'm sure some games actually do this, to lesser or
| greater extent [0], I've wondered why it's not more common ..
|
| I think the answer comes down to the fact that it would take,
| at minimum, one highly skilled audio engineer with specific
| audio programming skills to develop reliable variations that
| sound good. The sounds need to be realistic and appropriate
| literally every time, despite also being "random". This process
| would be deceptively hard, and take a significant amount of
| time.
|
| How great or necessary is the payoff in most cases? For
| example, Dota 2 is widely regarded as having superb audio
| engineering - experienced players can tell what's going on even
| in frantic ten player battles involving 100+ different heroes
| and hundreds of abilities by ear alone. Dota doesn't use any
| procedural generation at all, and I've never heard anyone
| complain despite the thousands of hours they put in.
|
| [0] - https://splice.com/blog/procedural-audio-video-games/
| midnightclubbed wrote:
| Some games certainly do that and most audio engines will
| allow the sound designers to add random variations, along
| with randomly selecting between different samples.
|
| There is only so much you can do with pitch changes and
| creative use of filters, and having multiple samples for each
| sound can burn memory (and sound designer hours) fairly
| quickly. As you point out there is a wide variance in the
| technical skills of sound designers (some love playing with
| the game engine side, some are better at making sounds and
| throwing them over the wall).
| 988747 wrote:
| Reminds me of Mozart using dice rolls to compose his waltzes :)
| janalsncm wrote:
| Nice work. This is a far more tractable problem than other
| generative sound projects of late. Creating one individual sample
| still keeps the human in the driver's seat.
|
| In a similar vein, it would be very cool to use AI with
| synthesizers. Text to synth, but use an actual synthesizer as an
| intermediary step. Don't just create a sound from nothing, tune
| the knobs in the right ways. Start out with subtractive synthesis
| and additive synthesis.
| everyone wrote:
| Theres almost no info on the website though. An interactive demo
| would be great, or failing that just some audio examples of its
| output or a video or something using it would help.
| berkeleymalagon wrote:
| Check out https://audialab.com/examples
| Etheryte wrote:
| I feel like this poses an interesting problem: if this AI,
| without any input samples, generates an output that is
| indistinguishable from a known sample, can you still say it's
| royalty free? I'm not really sure what the legal status quo is
| here in other related fields with similar issues.
| ZitchDog wrote:
| It's not an interesting problem, we in the US already have a
| legal definition of similarity for the purpose of copywright
| law, I assume other countries do as well.
| speedgoose wrote:
| If you ask stable diffusion or MidJourney to generate a recent
| Disney character image, it's not royalty-free.
|
| For a drum sample, I guess some are so generic and simple that
| no one can claim ownership. Still, if you manage to reproduce a
| particular sample, perhaps because of an overfitted model, then
| you may have some issues. However, the music industry seems to
| be fine with sampling.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _However, the music industry seems to be fine with
| sampling._
|
| Yes, as long as the sampled are paid and credited.
| seagullmerlin wrote:
| [flagged]
| seagullmerlin wrote:
| [flagged]
| berkeleymalagon wrote:
| I'm one of the co-founders of Audialab, the company behind this
| tech. We packaged it up into a plug-in called "Emergent Drums".
|
| If you're curious, our original generative models used GANs, and
| we're incorporating diffusion approaches now.
|
| Drums are the start - we're currently training models for
| instruments, synths, vox, foley, etc.
| CrypticShift wrote:
| As a Musician, I'll be more interested in style transfer: You
| give it a snare (or a multitrack drum loop !), and you tell it
| to generate a related hit-hat (or a complete kit !)
|
| There is no shortage of samples and sample packs (millions),
| and most pros are picky : context in king, and style transfer
| is more contextual.
|
| For instruments/synths/vox, "playability" is important, so the
| best approach IMO is cloning a sample to playable Midi
| instrument like midi-ddsp, midi2params or Mawf
| thewebcount wrote:
| Have you tried out Logic's drummers? They aren't style
| transfer per se, but they are AI that drums in a particular
| style, and you can control how it works.
| CrypticShift wrote:
| Only seen it on YouTube. Yes This is still generation, but
| I like the level of control. If Emergent Drums have this
| degree of parametric adjustment (I did not test it) it
| could be useful (to me).
| tmountain wrote:
| Different idea, but I really want someone to make a good drummer
| AI. Specifically, it listens to a key component of your song
| (probably bass or guitar) and generates a wide array of beats
| (midi format) to match the music. You'd provide input regarding
| style and intensity, and it'd be available as a plug-in for
| logic, etc.
|
| I am fully aware of apple's drummers in GarageBand and Logic, but
| they're weak in my opinion. I'm looking for a quantum leap
| forward in the same way GPT chat makes Siri look like a toy.
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