[HN Gopher] What crappy beer demand tells us about the economy
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       What crappy beer demand tells us about the economy
        
       Author : FollowingTheDao
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2023-02-10 18:33 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.freightwaves.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.freightwaves.com)
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | You can reuse charcoal water filters to remove impurities in
       | cheap booze like bottom shelf vodka and gin.
        
         | alephnerd wrote:
         | Haha. My Chem major roommate and I used to do this in college
         | while hosting house parties. We'd do 3 rounds of filtration
         | using a Britta purifier with Popov Vodka and fill up a
         | sanitized Ketel One bottle with the result.
         | 
         | Popov, Smirnoff, and Ketel One are all owned by Diaego PLC and
         | due to Federal regulations, all vodka is almost basically the
         | same - excluding filtration of course.
        
           | Eisenstein wrote:
           | It is all watered down industrially produced ethanol. Tito's
           | puts theirs through a pot-still but its still the same corn
           | ethanol created by some giant factory in the mid-west. If you
           | want to make your own pot still you can take the bottom shelf
           | vodka, run it through the still then dilute it back to 70%
           | with distilled/RO/DI water and get a Grey Goose bottle from
           | the recycling and keep refilling it. No one will ever be the
           | wiser.
        
           | version_five wrote:
           | Is there anything to worry about the vodka pulling out of the
           | filter, e.g. chemicals? This sounds like an interesting
           | experiment, my (probably ignorant) concern would be that
           | running the vodka though a filter designed for water may do
           | something bad to it. Is it completely harmless?
        
             | 1970-01-01 wrote:
             | Removing impurities makes it _slightly_ less bad for your
             | body.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | My Chem major buddy said it was fine, but I'm not an
             | accurate judge of that as someone who studied CS and
             | PoliSci.
        
       | DrSteveBrule wrote:
       | The analysis in this article that "crappy beer" demand is
       | increasing is wrong. The chart says that "An index of 50+ in a
       | segment means volumes in that segment are expanding and an index
       | below 50 indicates that volumes in that segment are contracting."
       | The below premium segment went from 38 to 48, so volumes are
       | still contracting, just slower than before. The import segment is
       | the only one with increasing volume.
        
       | 1A--__--__--1A wrote:
       | It's one of the cheaper form of relaxation after a hard days of
       | work.
        
       | pwenzel wrote:
       | This is only conjecture, but could the increased legalization of
       | cannabis in the United States lead to a change in alcohol sales?
       | 
       | https://www.statista.com/statistics/611714/marijuana-use-dur...
        
         | solarmist wrote:
         | From what I've heard it's true to an alarming degree for the
         | alcohol industry, but it's such a new thing there isn't an
         | agreed upon response yet.
        
       | Jun8 wrote:
       | Complement this article with the one on NYT about beer ads during
       | the Super Bowl this weekend:
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/10/business/media/beer-ads-s...
        
       | danans wrote:
       | > It's yet another indicator of our bizarro economy, where
       | frivolous goods like air fryers are cheap but staples like eggs
       | and meat are increasingly unaffordable.
       | 
       | An air fryer is no more frivolous than a toaster. We use ours as
       | our toaster, toaster oven, and convection oven. It's incredibly
       | useful.
        
         | sublinear wrote:
         | Interesting. My experience with air fryers has been that it
         | doesn't do anything in particular any better than other
         | appliances and those other appliances are more capable than the
         | air fryer.
         | 
         | Big weekend roast? Nope. Make more than just two slices of
         | toast? Nope. Reheat leftovers (other than fried junk food)
         | without drying it out? Nope.
        
         | themanmaran wrote:
         | Perhaps "frivolous" is the wrong word. But the effect he
         | discribes in the linked article is a backwards pricing
         | relationship between necessities (food, rent, housing) and non-
         | necessities (TVs, air-fryers, etc.). This is possibly an
         | example of Giffen Goods in effect [1]. Where as the price of an
         | inferior good increases (ex. bread), poorer families are forced
         | to buy more of that product and forgo more expensive
         | alternatives (ex. steak or TVs).
         | 
         | Price change over 2022 [2]
         | 
         | > Smartphones, 23.4% cheaper.
         | 
         | > Televisions, 17.9% cheaper.
         | 
         | > Bread, 16.2% more expensive.
         | 
         | > Eggs, 59.6% more expensive.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giffen_good [2]
         | https://www.freightwaves.com/news/bizarro-inflation-is-makin...
        
           | jxramos wrote:
           | I'd think that was a function of supply and demand to a large
           | extent, people can forgo non-necessities and therefore the
           | demand drops and the price follows that. For necessities not
           | so much.
        
           | danans wrote:
           | > But the effect he discribes in the linked article is a
           | backwards pricing relationship between necessities (food,
           | rent, housing) and non-necessities (TVs, air-fryers, etc.).
           | 
           | That makes sense. But I also think there are simpler
           | explanations, which is that smartphones and TVs are sectors
           | where a lot of effort continues to go into automation and
           | price reduction, and there are still lots of gains to be made
           | there. Those products are also not fundamentally energy-input
           | sensitive - if anything, newer production methods tend to use
           | less energy than previous production methods.
           | 
           | Food production is extremely sensitive to energy and
           | fertilizer prices, which have also gone up significantly. You
           | have to keep a chicken at a particular temperature, or it
           | won't lay eggs. And also, food has just been very cheap for a
           | long time, so it was already at high risk of price increases.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | TVs are cheaper because you can do targeted advertising
             | against them. I worked on this stuff for a bit in its
             | infancy. This increases margin sufficiently to drop prices
             | on the device itself. It's a pretty huge improvement for
             | QoL for most Americans.
        
               | AussieWog93 wrote:
               | It's more than that. TV prices have been dropping like a
               | brick for at least as long as I'd be alive.
        
               | renewiltord wrote:
               | True. I should have said that's accelerated it.
        
       | yamtaddle wrote:
       | I mean... have they considered one possibility?
       | 
       |  _Opens article_
       | 
       | cmd-f weed, 0 results
       | 
       | cmd-f canna, 0 results
       | 
       | cmd-f marij, 0 results
       | 
       | Hm. Nope.
        
         | HDThoreaun wrote:
         | Weed is also much cheaper than beer in many states. I'm an
         | almost daily smoker and a years supply costs me less than $300.
         | Meanwhile when I was drinking more I would easily spend $100 a
         | month on alcohol without even going to bars or restaurants.
         | Makes a lot of sense to substitute in the face of budget
         | tightening.
        
           | calvinmorrison wrote:
           | Let's see... my household gets roughly 3 cases of beer per
           | month. Last price I paid was 16.52 for a case of Genny Light.
           | All in, my beer costs around ~600 per year. Not to bad.
        
             | Retric wrote:
             | This is a little outdated but in 2019 a case is 15.20$ to
             | 31.21$ from state to state, and cities can bump that even
             | further. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/how-much-a-case-
             | of-beer-cost...
        
               | calvinmorrison wrote:
               | For sure, I buy the cheapest case possible
        
           | DontchaKnowit wrote:
           | Idk what planet you're living on but every smoker I know
           | spends closer to 300 a month on weed than 300 a year. Unless
           | youre smoking like a single puff on a 1 hitter once a day, or
           | unless you are getting insane deals on ganj, this makes
           | absolutely no sense to me.
           | 
           | 100 in a month on alcohol seems about right if youre an
           | alcoholic (or if you're buying your drinks at a bar)
        
             | turdprincess wrote:
             | In my town craft 4 packs of beer cost 15 dollars, or about
             | 4 dollars a beer. I have 1 a night, which easily brings my
             | cost over 100 a month. I don't consider myself an
             | alcoholic.
        
             | ptudan wrote:
             | I'm happy that there's someone out there who isn't
             | particularly experienced with alcoholism, genuinely, but
             | your figures are very, very off
             | 
             | $100 a month on alcohol is like, 5-6 low tier cases of
             | beer. That's just 5-6 beers a day. That's alcoholism to be
             | sure, but the degeneracy goes way, way further.
             | 
             | If you work at a liquor store, you'll see the grandma who
             | comes in 3x a week to buy a cheap plastic handle of vodka.
             | Or the guy who buys a 12 pack and two shooters, every
             | single day. Or the new mom who goes from buying 2 bottles
             | of wine a week to 10.
        
             | rattlesnakedave wrote:
             | Concentrates are really great, and cost effective if you're
             | a moderate consumer (even daily).
        
             | HDThoreaun wrote:
             | The store near me sells 2 gram disposable vapes for $30
             | after taxes. Those last me two months or so if I'm only
             | using them, so I could actually get my cost down more if I
             | gave up flower. My alcohol costs were admittedly a lot of
             | $3 a can craft beer which definitely adds up fast.
        
             | yamtaddle wrote:
             | Tolerances vary wildly when it comes to weed. I know people
             | who need literally 10x my "I want to be _very_ high " dose
             | to get sorta-high. Weed's expensive for them, but very
             | cheap for me. I probably spend $400ish per year on it and
             | have some almost daily (and our weed prices are nearly
             | double what states with better markets are--ours was
             | deliberately designed to allow political insiders to rent-
             | seek).
             | 
             | > 100 in a month on alcohol seems about right if youre an
             | alcoholic (or if you're buying your drinks at a bar)
             | 
             | You can hit $100/month fast without having that high an
             | intake or buying like you're royalty. Good sipping liquor's
             | hard to come by under $50/750ml, so, 50ml/day and you're
             | probably over $100/month. The wine market's _real_ hit-or-
             | miss (and mostly miss) under $15 /bottle (in the US) and a
             | lot of what one might wish to experience, flavor-wise,
             | barely exists at all under $20/bottle. Good beer has been
             | moving toward four-packs priced well in the teens of
             | dollars, single 12-ouncers at $3-7, and $15+ bombers, over
             | the last few years.
             | 
             | Of course if you just want to get hammered and don't care
             | what it tastes like, $100 will get you _really_ far, that
             | 's true.
        
         | sublinear wrote:
         | How are alcohol and weed alternatives to each other at all?
         | 
         | Maybe every now and then you hear about people who don't smoke
         | weed anymore because it makes them anxious or people who don't
         | drink anymore because they "hate alcoholics", but I think
         | they're firmly in the minority.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | If you want something mood-altering more than you want the
           | flavor, how's it not? I know a lot of people who've shifted
           | toward weed while reducing alcohol consumption (or even cut
           | it out all-but entirely!) for health reasons--almost no empty
           | calories (IDK maybe a low-two-digit count for gummies, tops,
           | if you use edibles?), far less damage to your body
           | (especially with edibles), usually way fewer problems with
           | hang-overs, and sleep is significantly less-disrupted. A
           | whole lot of what used to be 6-8 beer hang-outs for us have
           | become 3-4 beer (plus weed) hang-outs.
           | 
           | I could be in a bubble there, sure, but if so I bet it's a
           | pretty big bubble. I'm sure some people prefer an alcohol
           | buzz to being a bit high, since they aren't _exactly_ the
           | same thing, but they 're in the same ballpark, enough so that
           | I expect plenty of people find them alternatives to one
           | another.
        
             | sublinear wrote:
             | > If you want something mood-altering more than you want
             | the flavor, how's it not?
             | 
             | Ah I think you mean it as a social device, so sure.
             | 
             | > I'm sure some people prefer an alcohol buzz to being a
             | bit high, since they aren't exactly the same thing
             | 
             | Have you ever frequented bars and/or known serious
             | alcoholics? I'm not anti-booze, but that's a whole
             | different world. They may smoke weed too but are completely
             | different people without the booze.
        
         | ryeights wrote:
         | TFA notes that total alcohol consumption has not changed, but
         | merely shifted from beer to liquor and other types of alcohol.
        
           | red-iron-pine wrote:
           | Liquor gets me drunker, faster, and usually with less
           | calories. Beer and wine also have flavor profiles that, while
           | broad, are still fairly specific. Liquor, OTOH, has a whole
           | lot of options -- amaros, liqueurs, etc.
        
           | julianeon wrote:
           | I never really liked the taste of beer all that much, but
           | it's what everyone else drank, so it's what I drank.
           | 
           | I think that, over time, "people who don't like the taste of
           | beer" are finding they are a silent majority. As more
           | alcohol-but-not-beer options come to market, they keep buying
           | those. I like Kombucha more than beer, now add slightly more
           | alcohol and you have a suitable replacement.
           | 
           | Now imagine this process repeated across every imaginable
           | beverage category that can be sold in stores, and the beer
           | decline is easily explained.
        
         | matwood wrote:
         | There's weed/gummies, but also liquor and wine. And, with all
         | the negatives around alcohol become more and more known, I
         | think people just drink less. If someone is going to have 1
         | drink, they are probably more likely to have it be something
         | better.
        
       | Kon-Peki wrote:
       | > sumptuous nectars like Miller High Life.
       | 
       | Everything is fine. People are just celebrating more: sales of
       | the champagne of beers is increasing.
        
         | tillinghast wrote:
         | This is me. High Life is now my go-to. I guess the hop-bombs
         | and the trending flavor-blast-du-jour that craft beer descended
         | into just wore me out. And $0.50/can vs $2.50/can sure doesn't
         | hurt.
        
       | specialp wrote:
       | I don't think it really has anything to do with the economy. It
       | is changing tastes. Craft beer imploded by moving more and more
       | to just silver cans with pretty stickers. All being "Hazy juicy
       | IPAs". Seltzers were a refreshing change on this, but they get
       | boring after a while.
       | 
       | In countries other than the USA (IE UK) "alcopops" which are
       | bottled mixed drinks have always been very popular. In the USA we
       | have a mesh of state and taxation issues with selling a pure
       | mixed drink in a bottle that they end up becoming "malt
       | beverages" which are essentially crappy approximations.
       | 
       | The latest trend in Gen Z is "Borgs" where people have some
       | cocktail concoction in a jug. Beer is out of favor with younger
       | people and has been for a while. The seltzer crowd went straight
       | to Borg.
        
         | gwill wrote:
         | Beer prices have also skyrocketed (as mentioned in the article)
         | which has further pushed the younger generation away from beer.
         | Craft beer is the most approachable in my opinion as there are
         | many styles or variants that "don't taste like beer", at least
         | for my friend group in college it was easiest to get people
         | into beer with fruited sours or barrel aged stouts.
         | 
         | In a strange way beer is headed toward becoming an elitist
         | beverage given the cost.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | You'll know the economy is really bad when people brew their own.
       | I make most of my own alcohol and it saves a lot of money.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | What are you making that saves money? When I half-assed got
         | into it (hasn't everyone, at least once?) it became obvious
         | fast that even if I scaled up enough (including _significant_
         | capital investment) that it wasn 't more expensive than
         | equivalently-good commercial beer, it'd only take a failed
         | batch every two or three years to wipe out the savings, even
         | valuing my time at $0/hr.
         | 
         | I've considered getting back into it to make mead and maybe
         | cider, but mostly just because mead's expensive (here) and
         | _really_ good cider is usually imported and marked up like 4x
         | what it would be back where it came from, which is usually
         | England or northern France (back there, it 's cheap--though I
         | do doubt I can match theirs without turning it into a high-
         | time-commitment hobby, since the method is part of what makes
         | theirs so good, plus I'd have to find a source of the right
         | kinds of apples), but the economics for beer didn't even come
         | close to working out. Fruit and honey can also be fermented
         | without some of the steps & equipment you need for beer, which
         | helps a ton.
        
           | chelmzy wrote:
           | I just always have 5 gal of apple wine going. Apple juice,
           | sugar, and EC118 are cheap and produce something that tastes
           | good. Just throw it in a carboy with air lock and in 2 weeks
           | you are done.
        
             | adversaryIdiot wrote:
             | This is how me and my underage roommates did it in college
             | :-) It was super cheap after the initial investment. Pretty
             | sure we used a home depot bucket lol.
        
           | mrmekon wrote:
           | I've been tracking my costs for ~13 years. The cost here
           | includes _all_ equipment and ingredients over that time,
           | including all of the unnecessary stuff that I bought for fun,
           | like pH meters and titration gear.
           | |-----------------+-------------------------------+--------|
           | |           Years |                               |  12.92 |
           | |          Liters |                               |  831.5 |
           | |         Bottles |                               |   2494 |
           | |      Cost (SEK) |                               |  35373 |
           | | Cost/year (SEK) |                               |   2738 |
           | |       SEK/liter |                               |  42.54 |
           | |      SEK/bottle |                               |  14.18 |
           | |      USD/bottle |                               |   1.38 |
           | |-----------------+-------------------------------+--------|
           | 
           | It obviously matters what you brew and what you brew with.
           | This is mostly pale ales and stouts. They certainly haven't
           | all been great, but I've never dumped a batch, so there's no
           | waste to account for.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | It depends on scale and stuff. Really fancy equipment can be
           | a drag on any economy.
           | 
           | I have a 6 gallon stock pot for primary fermentation, or a
           | large mash of beer ($30ish). I use a smaller kitchen pot for
           | most of my batches of beer (1-2 gallons is a usual size for
           | me). I use my grandparents old 3 gallon carboys and bottle
           | capper. I also bought a used glass carboy 5gal for $20. Used
           | beer bottles can be found for nothing through local Facebook
           | groups and friends. I use screwtop wine bottles to save on
           | cork costs. Gallon jugs are about $5 (you can also use these
           | as carboys). So a low tech setup that can do 5gal batches can
           | run less than $100. My initial setup was the stock pot ($30)
           | and a 4pk of 1gal jugs ($20), and ballons ($2) for airlocks.
           | That can give you enough room to make 3 gallons. A 5gal
           | bucket and some strainer bags can be helpful depending on the
           | recipes ($20ish).
           | 
           | Depending on the fruit wine I want to make, I can make it for
           | between $3 and $15 _per gallon_ at 18% ABV. Even for for
           | beer, which admittedly can involve more equipment, I can make
           | a case of NE IPA for about $16. That 's probably about a
           | third of the cost in the store.
           | 
           | The only additional beer equipment I have is a capper and a
           | grain mill. The only reason I have the mill is that it was
           | free. You can order your grain pre-milled.
           | 
           | And yes, I make mead, which as you said is where the real
           | savings can come in. I also use my own honey so it's super
           | cheap.
        
           | TrueSlacker0 wrote:
           | Depending where you buy your beer ingredients a very basic 5
           | gallon batch of 5.2%ABV blonde/pale ale (10lbs 2 row, 2oz of
           | hops, dry yeast), would be around $0.55/12oz pour for someone
           | in the us (priced from morebeer). Of course $0/hr for labor.
           | It would be very easy to lower those costs 20%+ buying a
           | slightly more bulk amount, or buying the grain from your
           | local brewery. On the equipment side you can go all out and
           | get a setup for $1-2k or go super basic for a few hundred
           | dollars.
           | 
           | Wine is even cheaper and easier. Most wine kits come out to
           | be around $3/per bottle. And only need about $100 in
           | equipment.
        
             | giantg2 wrote:
             | "go super basic for a few hundred dollars."
             | 
             | My very basic setup is less than $100.
             | 
             | My first wine setup was under $55, and could still be under
             | $75 today.
        
           | underbluewaters wrote:
           | I found it made more sense to brew 10 years ago. Back then
           | craft brew wasn't as easy to find, so if I wanted something
           | particular I'd have better luck making my own and sharing it
           | with friends. Now I can go down to Whole Foods and have more
           | options than I can fathom.
           | 
           | Cost-wise it just doesn't make much sense. A batch might be
           | somewhat favorable in price for ingredients if you do all-
           | grain, but if you factor in equipment cost and time cleaning
           | up...
        
           | chasd00 wrote:
           | My wife got me one of those diy kits from northernbrewer for
           | Christmas. I was able to produce almost 5 gallons of a
           | perfectly drinkable IPA at 6-6.5%ABV with it. Five gallons is
           | a LOT of beer. There isn't much labor to speak of, maybe 4
           | hrs total. You just have to be patient and wait, it took
           | about 4 weeks for my batch to be ready.
           | 
           | I haven't worked it down to the penny but the initial kit is
           | about $150 (which comes with a recipe kit) and then around
           | $40-50 for additional recipe kits. On the other hand, my
           | favorite beer, Manhatten Project Beer Co's Half Life, is
           | pushing $12 for a 6 pack.
           | 
           | EDIT: if i just wanted to be inebriated though i'd probably
           | just get THC gummies. That would be easiest and likely the
           | most inebriation per unit money.
        
             | giantg2 wrote:
             | If you want your beer to be ready in a week, you can use
             | Kiviek yeast at 90F for most ale recipes. Two weeks around
             | 50F for lager styles.
        
       | alephnerd wrote:
       | My two cents - a lot of "crappy" beers are honestly pretty good,
       | and a lot of trendy Hazy SpaceDust Double IPAs or Coffee Imperial
       | Stouts brewed in Bourbon Casks just suck.
       | 
       | A simple Hamm's, Miller High Life, Modelo Negra, or Coors Banquet
       | is pretty tastey, inoffensive, and great bang for your buck.
       | 
       | Also, a lot of beer snobbyists have now transitioned into Bourbon
       | (f** taters for making it impossible to get Buffalo Trace at an
       | affordable price), so that's also playing a role
        
         | themanmaran wrote:
         | The article is not referencing "demand for crappy beer", but
         | rather "crappy demand for beer".
         | 
         | Compound adjectives are not great in article titles.
        
           | timerol wrote:
           | It's kinda both. From the article:
           | 
           | > That explains why the "below premium" segment was the only
           | one to see an increase in demand in January compared to
           | January 2022, according to the National Beer Wholesalers
           | Association's Beer Purchasers' Index.
        
           | alephnerd wrote:
           | Whoops my bad. I thought I saw crappy beer when I posted.
           | Still stand by my sentiments thought.
        
           | joegahona wrote:
           | I almost commented solely about the headline, but resisted.
           | Indeed, while the article title is correct, hyphenation usage
           | is so spotty among regular people that the chance of
           | misreading the title is too high.
        
       | version_five wrote:
       | The important part is at the end:                 However, the
       | state of alcohol purchasing says something larger about the
       | American consumer. We're seeing folks once again organize into
       | two camps - haves and have nots.            Consumer demand for
       | singular "sub-premium" beers is rising at the same time as high-
       | end mezcal.
       | 
       | This has been accelerating since the 2008 "crisis" and got way
       | worst the past few years. There is no middle, there's either
       | premium to cater to the (mostly) white collar class who are now
       | comparatively rich, and there's crap for the working class, who
       | are now super poor.
        
         | notch898a wrote:
         | Maybe I'm an outlier but the more high end beer/alcohol I buy,
         | the more sub-premium beer I buy as well. That is buying more
         | sub-premium means I've gotten richer.
         | 
         | I'll have a nice mezcal with a shitty bud light or whatever
         | afterwards. If I don't have a high end drink then that's when
         | I'll have something middle of the road like a local affordable
         | craft or something and since it's affordable I don't need to
         | buy a sub-premium beer to finish off the night.
         | 
         | Could it be people have just discovered better alcohol and are
         | drinking that for the taste and then the budget stuff for the
         | buzz? The masses may have discovered it's kind of an optimal
         | strategy.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | when you see someone walking out of the store with a 30 pack
           | of Keystone, you know they are not drinking for the taste.
        
             | alephnerd wrote:
             | Ehn, it's just Coors Light in a separate can. And I can
             | confirm that due to unscientific experiments of mine while
             | in college.
             | 
             | Same with Natty Light btw - that's just Bud Light.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | "Schaefer is the one beer to have when you're having more
             | than one."
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRecWSp4VFg
        
               | red-iron-pine wrote:
               | More than 6
        
             | DontchaKnowit wrote:
             | I'd drink keystone over like half the garbage craft beers
             | or like a budweiser any day
        
           | Domenic_S wrote:
           | It's a strategy that's endured thru the millennia:
           | 
           | John 2:10
           | 
           | > "A host always serves the best wine first," he said. "Then,
           | when everyone has had a lot to drink, he brings out the less
           | expensive wine..."
        
             | version_five wrote:
             | Good advice, but If I understood that passage they all just
             | got a bunch of free wine though
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | it was all free to the guests. the passage was in
               | response to how good the miracle wine was to have tasted.
               | it was the end of the night when they were running out of
               | wine, so the expectation would be that they had already
               | long finished off the good stuff. but here they are
               | bringing out the best wine at the end of the shindig.
        
           | gwbas1c wrote:
           | I don't know about you, but I've always known "joe six-pack"
           | to be pretty price conscious.
           | 
           | Then again, as others in this thread have pointed out; the
           | market is rather saturated with gross $12 4-packs. I've been
           | suckered by a few.
        
         | Workaccount2 wrote:
         | If you had assets during the pandemic you got many good gifts,
         | some once in a lifetime (those 1.95% mortgages).
         | 
         | If you didn't have assets, you got a check for $2000.
         | 
         | It really cannot be overstated enough the wealth divide that
         | pandemic QE created. The way things are you have to inflate
         | assets by $100 for $1 to make it down to poverty level hands.
        
           | Gibbon1 wrote:
           | Last two years the increase in equity in my house and my
           | retirement savings exceeds my income over the last ten.
           | 
           | I got that for doing absolutely nothing.
        
           | acuozzo wrote:
           | > It really cannot be overstated enough the wealth divide
           | that pandemic QE created.
           | 
           | :s/\<created\>\\.$/exacerbated./
           | 
           | The underlying causes go back further than _Roger & Me_.
        
           | jollyllama wrote:
           | Some of us got neither
        
           | bailoon wrote:
           | > If you had assets during the pandemic you got many good
           | gifts, some once in a lifetime (those 1.95% mortgages).
           | 
           | Exactly. Real estate doubled, tripled. Stock prices
           | skyrocketed. Established stocks like Apple triple during the
           | pandemic. It's mindboggling. That's after 12 years of
           | continuous growth after the 2008 recession. Going off of
           | assets, the past 15 years has been the greatest economic boom
           | in human history.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | I used to (like, 5 years ago) find a lot of $7 and $8 bombers
         | that were pretty great, or $9 6-packs that were damn solid.
         | 
         | From my perspective it's not so much that I stopped buying mid-
         | tier beer, as that it _vanished_ and isn 't there to buy
         | anymore. Now I look at a $12 4-pack of beer that's not even
         | _that_ good and wonder if I should put the money toward a very-
         | nice scotch instead....
         | 
         | I still buy from a few brands that I know well and that do
         | deliver good quality at non-crazy prices, but there just aren't
         | as many "yeah, sure, at that price I'll give it a shot" beers
         | on the shelf. At least locally.
        
           | tvanantwerp wrote:
           | I've had this same experience. Every time I go to my local
           | specialty beer shops, it's nothing but 4-packs that _start_
           | at $16. I've never even heard of most of them, and a large
           | portion are just the really over-done trendy IPAs that every
           | brand new brewery seems eager to produce. Maybe 20% or less
           | of their offerings are what I'd call a solid mid-range 6-pack
           | of beer.
        
           | 88913527 wrote:
           | Local markets vary, but I regularly see ~$1/bottle as a
           | promotion price for "mid-tier" (aka premium) beers, or to
           | give examples of brands: Corona, Stella, etc. (I'm not
           | talking about stuff like PBR here). These mid-tier's can be
           | had for $11.99 12-pack, 12 fl oz. The non-promotion price is
           | closer to $18. Both the promotional price and not-on-sale
           | price began noticeably ticking upwards in January. I haven't
           | bothered with crafts unless I can get it on tap when I'm out.
           | Paying craft prices for at-home enjoyment isn't the right
           | value proposition for me.
        
           | maxerickson wrote:
           | Bells and New Belgium six packs are $10-$12 here, a long with
           | a bunch of similarly priced stuff from smaller regional
           | breweries.
           | 
           | Are they not mid tier?
        
         | xadhominemx wrote:
         | This is just not true. The real wages and wealth of those the
         | the 10th to 98th percentiles of income have all grown since the
         | period prior to the financial crisis. The real wages of those
         | in the 10th-20th percentile have grown the most.
        
           | boc wrote:
           | Yeah but it _feels_ true, which is almost good enough.
           | 
           | It's just like everyone who _knows_ a recession is just
           | around the corner. Hard to support with evidence but it's the
           | vibe du jour.
        
           | tenebrisalietum wrote:
           | Prices have also increased?
        
           | ccooffee wrote:
           | Do you have a preferred source for this? I went down a
           | rabbit-hole of googling and trying to evaluate how reliable
           | the sources were and got pretty lost. I found several
           | articles claiming to use data from the US Federal Reserve
           | with conflicting interpretations.
        
         | jxramos wrote:
         | I was watching a Robert Kiyosaki talk with some podcast
         | recently where he mentioned investing in Wagyu beef ranches I
         | think. And he said something to the effect that the poor will
         | stop buying hamburger, but the rich will suck the additional
         | costs because they essentially are not stoic enough to go
         | without was the vibe of his claim. So pretty much the division
         | of essential and non-essential curves differently for different
         | classes is how it sounds.
        
           | version_five wrote:
           | The conclusion makes sense though I'm not sure it being a
           | question of a kind of stoicism. From personal experience, if
           | you have money, costs go up, and you get angry you're
           | spending more, but you can afford it so you suck it up and
           | pay (ironically, a bit stoic).
           | 
           | If you literally don't have the money, you have no choice but
           | to change your behavior, so you go without.
        
           | jerlam wrote:
           | Funny you brought up Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad author)
           | since one of the lessons in the book was - the rich (wealth
           | accumulators) are smart enough to not spend their money on
           | luxuries such as expensive new cars, and presumably high-end
           | craft beers.
        
           | atlasunshrugged wrote:
           | I don't have enough money to be investing in Wagyu beef
           | ranches but I agree with that (especially if they really get
           | cell based meat going, but even without just based on regs
           | and consumer behavior RE animal cruelty). Eventually it'll be
           | just premium meats vs... tbd (plant replacements, bugs, cell
           | based meat off an assembly line)
        
         | agentwiggles wrote:
         | Obviously this is wildly anecdotal and a laughably tiny sample
         | size, but I have found myself moving back towards a few
         | favorite cheap beers over the last few years. I just got kinda
         | sick of heavy stouts and hop-bomb IPAs, and have found myself
         | enjoying cheap watery pilsners more. I drink a lot of PBR
         | completely unironically, and my favorite local "craft" beer is
         | "Hilltop Lager" - which is sold in red and white tall cans
         | clearly designed to ape the PBR look and feel a little bit.
         | 
         | I don't know that this is a counterpoint to TFA really, but I
         | wonder if some degree of folks just getting sick of the craft
         | beer craze could be a confounding factor.
        
           | thedaveoflife wrote:
           | I like the taste of IPAs but can't stand the hangovers if i
           | have more than one
        
             | jhbadger wrote:
             | It's popular for some reason for IPAs to have high alcohol
             | (like 7% or higher), but there's been a recent trend in
             | IPAs (and other styles) for "session" beers that have more
             | normal ~5% levels. I know it's just a few percent, but I
             | find two or three pints of a lower alcohol beer leave me
             | feeling much better than the higher ones.
        
               | boredtofears wrote:
               | This is where I'm at. Pale Ales or Session IPA's both
               | have lower calorie and lower ABV. Toppling Goliath's
               | Psuedo Sue is fantastic. It's not cheap though.
        
             | maxerickson wrote:
             | If you grind your teeth/clench your jaw during sleep,
             | consider trying a bite guard.
             | 
             | No more headaches for me.
             | 
             | (I got one when I had a couple nasty headaches during a
             | period I didn't drink for a few months. I knew from my
             | dentist I ground my teeth but that was what pushed me over
             | the edge.)
        
           | scruple wrote:
           | > I wonder if some degree of folks just getting sick of the
           | craft beer craze could be a confounding factor.
           | 
           | Yup. I'm a (former) home brewer. I have quite a few friends
           | who are current or former home brewers, too. We're all
           | basically done with the craft beer trends at this point,
           | preferring classic styles that are in the <= 5% ABV range.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | linkjuice4all wrote:
           | I'm in the same boat.
           | 
           | I got older so hangovers hurt more but there is definitely an
           | over saturation of beers, brands, and bottles. I'm still
           | loyal to some semi-premium brands when I can find them - but
           | so many smaller breweries put out millions of different
           | brands/flavors/types and I can't be bothered to make space in
           | my brain to remember them (and I'm not interested in Untappd
           | or similar to remind me of how bad my drinking habit is).
        
           | slothtrop wrote:
           | Similar place. I find over time I find I appreciate the
           | lighter euro-lagers or pilsners most, and periodically some
           | belgian non-trappist ales and german beers. Ales are heavier
           | so I don't usually go for them, and "craft" beers generally
           | disappointing.
           | 
           | Have shifted more to wine, but owing to being conscious of my
           | health, I buy infrequently.
        
           | jonhohle wrote:
           | I've always like PBR & MGD (when I'm feeling more premium)
           | and really dislike IPAs. It's really nice to see local small
           | brewers finally making their way into pilsners and lagers.
           | I've had some really good ones that remind me of the
           | Leinenkugel's of yesteryear.
           | 
           | In the Phoenix area Huss and The Shop are knocking it out of
           | the park with their lagers. Spotted Cow is still the best;
           | even though it's an ale, it drinks like a lager.
        
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