[HN Gopher] Show HN: Filmbox, physically accurate film emulation...
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       Show HN: Filmbox, physically accurate film emulation, now on Linux
       and Windows
        
       We released Filmbox two years ago, and it has gotten a great
       response. It's been used in huge movies like "Everything Everywhere
       All At Once".  It's been a huge rewrite to get this working on
       Linux and Windows from our original Mac and Metal code.  We also
       have some interesting uses of cross-platform Swift + Electron in
       our plugin manager app, and cross-platform Swift generally in the
       plugin. Hopefully we can detail that in a blog post at some point.
       There's a free Filmbox Lite version to try, if you're interested.
        
       Author : wilg
       Score  : 183 points
       Date   : 2023-02-08 19:13 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (videovillage.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (videovillage.co)
        
       | Etheryte wrote:
       | As a photographer, emulation like this is of great interest to
       | me. Like in cinematography, film is often held in high regard in
       | photography with the caveat that it isn't even remotely as
       | flexible as digital options.
       | 
       | Have you considered creating a parallel product as an Adobe
       | Lightroom plugin and/or a standalone app for still images?
        
         | thejarren wrote:
         | My understanding is that you can edit images inside of Davinci
         | Resolve just like video, though I haven't attempted it myself.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | > Have you considered creating a parallel product as an Adobe
         | Lightroom plugin and/or a standalone app for still images?
         | 
         | Yes.
        
         | buildbot wrote:
         | I second this, many photographers would be very interested,
         | myself included.
        
           | photoGrant wrote:
           | Put a DNG into Resolve, enjoy a node based workflow, use this
           | plugin, and export the frame at the same res :)
        
       | keepquestioning wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | jansan wrote:
       | The skeuomorphic user interface below "A tool for purists and mad
       | scientists alike" is really nice, but I doubt that is really how
       | the app looks like.
        
       | ipsum2 wrote:
       | Can you discuss the technical details of how this was
       | implemented? From a high level perspective, I can imagine it
       | involves creating a 3d LUT from a color chart.
        
       | VikingCoder wrote:
       | Neat product. I know I'm asking in the worst possible place, but
       | it'd be really cool if someone made some ShaderToy demos that do
       | the same thing as a post-processing step.
        
       | thejarren wrote:
       | What's the difference between this and Dehancer?
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | Filmbox looks better.
        
       | thot_experiment wrote:
       | Cool software though not something I would pay for.
       | 
       | If you're interested in getting most of this effect for free I
       | highly recommend using the venerable Hald CLUT library found
       | here: https://github.com/cedeber/hald-clut
       | 
       | These are lookup tables made using film scans and do a damn good
       | job of emulating the film "feel" especially when used with HDR
       | input without burnt highlights or crushed blacks.
       | 
       | I personally recommend RawTherapee for photo editing, which
       | includes native support for these.
       | 
       | To further emulate the effect you can use a film grain overlay
       | (hundreds available one google away) and a color-weighted bloom
       | filter.
       | 
       | ffmpeg and OBS also natively support this LUT format, I'm sure
       | there are ways to use them in the FOSS video editing suites as
       | well, but I basically do everything in ffmpeg commandline
       | nowadays so I don't have firsthand experience.
        
       | CarVac wrote:
       | How does this compare to my Filmulator, which basically runs a
       | simulation of stand development?
       | 
       | https://filmulator.org
       | 
       | (I've been too busy on another project to dedicate too much time
       | to it the past year, and dealing with Windows CI sucks the fun
       | out of everything, so it hasn't been updated in a while...)
        
         | expensive_news wrote:
         | I remember trying to get this installed on my Mac a while ago.
         | Do you know if it can run on M1 now?
        
       | jcynix wrote:
       | Film simulations are cool. While I always take RAW images, I
       | often use the builtin film simulation bracketing of my Fuji
       | X-Systems to generate three JPEGs at the same time. This often
       | gives me nice JPEGs which I can immediately pass on to family and
       | friends, who view them on the smartphones or tablets and are
       | happy without me doing time consuming RAW processing.
       | 
       | Interestingly you can generate those simulations later in camera
       | too while reviewing your images. And Darktable has some Fuji film
       | simulation recipes builtin too for a start.
       | 
       | Last but not least some sites, for example
       | https://fujixweekly.com/, publish and review various film
       | simulation recipes.
        
         | caseyohara wrote:
         | Fuji's film sims are lovely and make for great images right out
         | of the camera. I have an X-T4 and X100V and the simulations are
         | one of my favorite parts of the X system. I also bracket the
         | film sims, but I often have trouble choosing my favorite
         | between the three.
        
           | jcynix wrote:
           | > I often have trouble choosing my favorite between the
           | three.
           | 
           | Same problem of choice here too, and that's where the somehat
           | tedious manual post-processing in-camera comes to the rescue,
           | if needed.
        
       | pinum wrote:
       | Those results look excellent. I'm trying to gauge whether
       | something like this could potentially work in realtime, i.e. in
       | games. I know it inevitably depends on hardware, resolution,
       | settings, etc but do you have a ballpark figure for how long it
       | takes to apply this to a frame? (And does it have a temporal
       | aspect which requires access to frame N+k to render frame N?)
        
       | ladberg wrote:
       | Out of curiosity, is it normal for the Mac-only (until now)
       | software in the film industry to get any traction like this one
       | has?
        
         | gnopgnip wrote:
         | Arguably the most popular software in the industry is Mac only,
         | Final Cut Pro
        
           | deaddodo wrote:
           | Which part of the industry are you talking about? Final Cut
           | Pro is most definitely not the most used by television and
           | film studios.
           | 
           | The Avid/Nuke/Maya stack is _far_ more popular, in that
           | realm. Followed up by Adobe's stack on the lower end.
        
       | photoGrant wrote:
       | Always loved your software, glad to see you here. Polished and on
       | point for 99% of my DIT use cases.
       | 
       | Lattice being particularly close to heart. Thanks!
        
       | subhro wrote:
       | Not sure how many people shoot film here, but I could have one
       | look at the lite version processing and say this is just an
       | emulation, especially in the shadows. The grain is predictable
       | unlike "real" film.
       | 
       | Funny that people will spend so much time, money and effort in
       | making digital photos look like film, but refuse to shoot film.
       | Just sad. :(
        
         | jrm4 wrote:
         | What you're saying is probably true, and also almost certainly
         | will be false in the long run. Given art AI, etc, it's not hard
         | to predict that this will get to the point where it would be
         | indistinguishable.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | All this effort is likely still cheaper than shooting real
         | film.
        
         | deaddodo wrote:
         | The part that I found oddest was showing off the physical film
         | vs digitally altered. Instead of having a neutral comparison.
         | 
         | As a non-Photographer, the film versions looked better in
         | almost every case. I wasn't sure what the filter was actually
         | meant to be used for. But a comparison with neutral stock would
         | have made it look better, in all probability.
        
         | Kevcmk wrote:
         | I shoot exclusively film and am thrilled to see attempts at
         | this. The medium is far too expensive and need not die in the
         | name of exclusivity
        
       | dusted wrote:
       | A part of me think this is great, I love how film look.. Another
       | part of me hates the idea, that something merely _looks_ like a
       | thing, rather than _being_ the thing.. Can't explain why..
       | Especially since I can't watch film anywhere anyway, not even in
       | cinema anymore..
        
         | jjgreen wrote:
         | There're still a few cinemas in London screening 35mm
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | Monsieur Baudrillard would like to have a word with you...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | conpervative wrote:
       | Are there any demos showing a side-by-side comparison of raw
       | footage versus post-processing by Filmbox? I'd be interested to
       | see the difference.
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | Last time I posted someone asked this:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25368352
         | 
         | The TL;DR is that "raw footage" is sort of meaningless with
         | video. You could make the comparison look as good or bad as you
         | want.
        
       | carlosdp wrote:
       | This is awesome!
        
       | ahoya wrote:
       | Is there a pricing for students or people who just want to make
       | their videos look cool for their families and friends?
       | Unfortunately I really like the effect but can't afford this is a
       | hobbyist.
        
         | jholtom wrote:
         | https://license.videovillage.co/buy/filmbox-lite-ofx/non-com...
        
           | klabb3 wrote:
           | This is pretty awesome of them. They also have a free version
           | with fewer options but without time limit and watermarks.
           | That's very generous.
        
             | basch wrote:
             | The link you replied to is the free version with fewer
             | options and without time limits or watermarks, aka Filmbox
             | Lite.
        
           | Joeboy wrote:
           | No Linux version though.
        
       | codetrotter wrote:
       | > It's been a huge rewrite to get this working on Linux and
       | Windows from our original Mac and Metal code.
       | 
       | Would be interested to read more about the technical details in a
       | blog post.
       | 
       | Did you end up porting your Metal code to something else which is
       | then translated into Vulkan, Metal, DX12? Or do you now maintain
       | your original Metal code alongside ports to Vulkan and DX12? Or
       | something else?
       | 
       | If you were to start another project today, would you go the same
       | route of Metal first and then whatever else you did? Or would you
       | go directly to the way that you are currently doing it?
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | Resolve only supports Metal, OpenCL, and CUDA extensions.
         | Filmbox currently uses Metal and CUDA and we are probably going
         | to support OpenCL to support AMD cards.
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-08 23:00 UTC)