[HN Gopher] Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil
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Fungi and bacteria are binging on burned soil
Author : gmays
Score : 108 points
Date : 2023-02-08 16:46 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.ucr.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.ucr.edu)
| sho_hn wrote:
| Isn't "slash and burn" also a common agricultural practice for
| millenia?
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| That's certainly my understanding. I seem to remember from an
| Intro to Hinduism class that when the "Aryans" arrived in the
| Indus Valley, the first thing they did was burn down a bunch of
| the forests, because the charred mulch made the soil more
| fertile for growing crops.
| hosh wrote:
| Related: biochar as a soil amendment
|
| https://biochar-international.org/biochar/
| hinkley wrote:
| Biochar turns out to be more effective in bacteria dominant
| soils than in fungal, where the fungi provide some of the same
| services.
|
| Tropical forests are bacterial, temperate fungal. I don't think
| it's an accident that terra preta (a biochar + ? complex of
| soil) is found in Brazil.
|
| It's also a reason we have to be careful about global warming.
| Temperate forests make great carbon sinks, tropical do not. If
| we tip more land into tropical we lose a powerful method of
| remediation.
| beamgirl wrote:
| Fun fact to add about carbon sinks, peat bogs can sink 4-17
| times as much CO2 per acre as a forest and acts as an
| incredible moisture regulator. One of my more out there
| dreams is to start a big man made peat bog at the edge of a
| desert.
| wiredfool wrote:
| This is why we dig up peat bogs and burn them.
| legulere wrote:
| Where would you get all the water for that? The defining
| characteristic of a desert is little precipitation.
| beamgirl wrote:
| I'd have to find somewhere with water near a desert,
| that's why I specified the edge. My understanding of how
| some deserts form is that farming techniques or other
| forces can cause a region to stop retaining water as
| well, and if this happens in a large enough area, it can
| lead to less rainfall etc. I remember reading about how
| herd animals trampling prairie grass and shitting all
| over it causes it to retain significantly more moisture
| during dryer times. My thought is that moisture
| regulating bogs could possibly at least stop deserts from
| expanding
| tke248 wrote:
| Seems like we should be testing geoengineering in deserts
| first before we try it in much harsher environments like
| Mars. I think desalinated ocean water via low tech solar
| might be a good way to start - https://inhabitat.com/wp-
| content/blogs.dir/1/files/2016/08/F...
| beamgirl wrote:
| My understanding is that desalinization should be a
| method of last resort, since it produces a lot of brine
| that is hard to deal with at scale in a way that isnt bad
| for the marine life. Depending on the desert, dew
| collectors might work, although I havent looked into how
| much water sphagnum moss needs over a year, now much a
| dew collector can produce, how much evaporation would
| happen, etc.
| detritus wrote:
| Where can I learn more about what you've said, if you have
| sources to hand, please? I'm a big fan of bio-char (lol), so
| hearing that it's not-so good in temperate zones is
| disappointing to me, but interesting. Thanks :)
| chasil wrote:
| It is well-known that morel mushrooms do very well in a freshly-
| burned forest.
|
| "...black morels (Morchella elata and related species) are mostly
| found in coniferous forests, disturbed ground and recently burned
| areas."
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella#Association_with_wil...
| ycta2023 wrote:
| I live on the west coast of north america - the last few years
| following wildfires my mum heads up to the scorched
| mountaintops to pick morels and sells them. Big hauls, hundreds
| of dollars' worth of rare mushrooms growing in ruined forests.
| empyrrhicist wrote:
| "Do very well" may not be quite correct. When mycorrhizal hosts
| die, the organism puts all its energy into escaping the dead
| end - fruiting and dispersing spores. If there are periodic
| fires that kill trees, that's a great time to spread to a
| neighboring area. If giant fire that takes out vast areas, that
| may be less good.
| chasil wrote:
| But controlled burns and fires that otherwise do not cause
| complete incineration of the symbiotic trees/plants would not
| result in the death of the fungi. However, with the ground
| cleared, the spores would travel further.
|
| There are also fire-dependent plants that are reproduction-
| adapted for these conditions.
|
| "Some cones, such as those of lodgepole pine and sequoia, are
| pyriscent, as well as many chaparral shrubs, meaning they
| require heat from fire to open cones to disperse seeds."
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_burn
| empyrrhicist wrote:
| Yes, it's an adaptation for a particular ecosystem.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| I guess that makes sense. Compared to seeds, fungi spores are
| ephemeral and they make better use of available biomass. Ash also
| tends to retain its dampness pretty well.
| 1-6 wrote:
| Happy to see these studies and more prescribed burns. Nature is
| complex and we're still learning.
| TEP_Kim_Il_Sung wrote:
| Together we can stop this!
| zahma wrote:
| In response to the subtitle asking whether these species can help
| revive burnt areas: I doubt it. It is true that some species are
| specially adapted and even need burnt vegetation to thrive (eg.
| There's a bird species I believe endogenous to the Yosemite area
| whose name I can't recall). However, these species occupy a
| particular niche much like I expect fungi or bacteria do. For
| them to restore an ecosystem naturally implies balance. There is
| nothing balanced about the intensity and frequency of fires,
| which are in large part anthropogenic. Maybe there are some
| species that are adaptable but I just don't see this as some kind
| of panacea.
| uoaei wrote:
| > There is nothing balanced about the intensity and frequency
| of fires
|
| I urge you to read about indigenous wildland fire management
| techniques. Also check out the 'forest fire' cellular automata
| model. You speak of niches as being exclusive, but ecosystems
| are composed of bubbling foams of overlapping, interacting
| niches, which merge, split, re-combine, etc. as the ecosystem
| progresses through modes of dynamic equilibrium. Any wildland
| will have fires; a mechanism for integrating those fires into
| the ecosystem's dynamics is inevitable, because nature operates
| as a ruthlessly exploitative force when a new element is
| introduced to an ecosystem. Thus, a niche is identified, and
| organisms fill it. TFA reports only on the inevitable
| conclusion of the natural course of things.
|
| > just don't see this as some kind of panacea
|
| Why do you think the author is arguing that it is?
| zardo wrote:
| > There is nothing balanced about the intensity and frequency
| of fires
|
| A correct statement, the intensity would be lower and the
| frequency higher without human intervention.
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