[HN Gopher] What 2023 will bring for PeerTube
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       What 2023 will bring for PeerTube
        
       Author : booteille
       Score  : 244 points
       Date   : 2023-02-08 14:13 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (joinpeertube.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (joinpeertube.org)
        
       | neonsunset wrote:
       | It's nice to see PeerTube keeping going, it's quite an important
       | project in the long run, always providing the opportunity to spin
       | up your own instance for videohosting, and "peer" too. Here
       | federation is actually a more useful model when compared to
       | deeply flawed fediverse in its use case.
        
         | doublepg23 wrote:
         | PeerTube uses ActivityPub, it is _part_ of the fediverse. You
         | can comment on a video using a Mastodon account.
        
           | neonsunset wrote:
           | I'm sorry to hear that. Thank you for the correction though.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Fediverse is exactly what you were saying when you said
             | "Here federation is actually a more useful model", it is
             | federated.
        
             | hnarn wrote:
             | Two comments in and still not a word on what is "flawed"
             | about the fediverse.
        
               | hgsgm wrote:
               | I'm guessing they are interpreting "fediverse" as a
               | federated implementation of a global clique like Twitter
               | where everyone wants to connect to everyone, instead of
               | only their friends/followees
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | unixhero wrote:
       | More speed, more content!
        
       | peppermint_gum wrote:
       | I have one problem with PeerTube: its P2P architecture makes the
       | users legally liable for the content they're watching, because
       | they aren't just _watching_ , they are also automatically sharing
       | it.
       | 
       | Of course, Torrent has the same problem but I think in that case
       | people are more aware of it.
        
         | cuillevel3 wrote:
         | It's already happening with fascist propaganda:
         | https://joinpeertube.org/news/isd-study
        
       | somecompanyguy wrote:
       | my guess is a massive propaganda campaign demonizing peertube
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | Given some of the content I've seen on PeerTube, PeerTube
         | becoming popular would be the end of PeerTube.
        
       | jrmg wrote:
       | What is that screenshot of 'Morning Affairs' to 'Embark' meant to
       | show?
       | 
       | Related, that's probably not the best picture to show if they're
       | going for mainstream acceptance. I suspect it's probably a pretty
       | sedate video actually, so the author of the post just didn't
       | think about how it looked, but just choosing something with less
       | apparent nakedness would probably give a better first impression
       | if PeerTube is going for a widespread audience.
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | In a very odd way, I almost want Youtube to screw up something
       | big to shine some light here, a la Twitter/Mastodon. Get these
       | things rolling!
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | Youtube semi-regularly screws up in ways that makes the
         | creators fear for their channel and audience, and makes them
         | evaluate alternatives. The "problem" is that youtube never
         | really screws up on the content consumer side, so viewers have
         | little reason to ever go to any of these altnernatives (unless
         | it's paid bonus content on patreon).
         | 
         | Though I guess I could see some channels that are too heavily
         | restricted on youtube using peertube as a repository of _all_
         | videos, and youtube for the videos that youtube currently deems
         | acceptable enough.
        
         | somecompanyguy wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | seanw444 wrote:
           | As well as guntubers. You're not allowed to show assembly, or
           | even disassembly, of firearms really anymore. Who needs to
           | amend the Constitution when the institutions can simply erase
           | knowledge and experience on exercising the rights therein.
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | Just like with Mastodon created because of the 2013 Twitter
         | APIpocalypse, YouTube have been screwing things up big for at
         | least 14 years now, and PeerTube as it exists now is at least
         | partially the result of those actions :
         | 
         | https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/01/youtubes-january-fair-...
         | 
         | (To be fair there also was that Viacom et al. lawsuit for $1
         | billion in damages...)
        
         | nicce wrote:
         | I doesn't matter much since there is no money involved in
         | alternatives. Google pays for content creators. A lot.
         | Decentralisation is likely removing all compensations and
         | people stop pushing content for money.
        
           | jrm4 wrote:
           | To which I say, GOOD.
           | 
           | I'm 100% convinced that NOTHING of significant value would be
           | lost if the revenue that Youtube pays directly were to go
           | away. It would be a rough transition period, but pure-ads
           | just doesn't make anything good. Patreon-style is ideal, but
           | Netflix is fine too.
        
       | TheCaptain4815 wrote:
       | General question, why haven't nefarious actors used PeerTubes
       | technology to launch their own non-censorable channels/videos?
       | I'm talking ISIS tier.
        
       | schoolornot wrote:
       | IPFS would be welcome:
       | https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube/issues/494
        
       | ehutch79 wrote:
       | I'm getting certificate errors. This is a giant red flag to me.
        
         | frostiness wrote:
         | Are you sure you're not on a network that may be blocking the
         | site? I had the same issue but it went away once I connected to
         | a VPN.
        
         | aendruk wrote:
         | What errors?
        
           | ehutch79 wrote:
           | NET::ERR_CERT_AUTHORITY_INVALID
           | 
           | It's showing as some kind of cicso cert valid for a couple of
           | days.
           | 
           | There's no interception on this network. Other let's encrypt
           | certs work just fine.
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | For which domain? joinpeertube.org or one of the video hosting
         | nodes?
         | 
         | Use Qualys [1] to test the domain in question to link here or
         | use the testssl.sh [2] code _only depends on openssl and bash_
         | to test from your machine. If one of the many self hosted
         | nodes, see if you can find a way to reach out to them and
         | kindly suggest they set up certbot or a cron job to renew their
         | certs.
         | 
         | Joinpeertube.org looks good to me [3] so I assume you find a
         | self-hosted node that needs some attention.
         | 
         | If someone here knows of a way to query a list of all the self-
         | hosted domains joined into peertube perhaps we could run
         | testssl.sh against all of them to generate reports. I am not
         | opposed to doing this if someone knows how I can get a list of
         | all the domains using curl.
         | 
         | [1] - https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/
         | 
         | [2] - https://github.com/drwetter/testssl.sh
         | 
         | [3] -
         | https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=joinpeertube....
        
           | ehutch79 wrote:
           | joinpeertube.org
           | 
           | Clicking on the HN link, as a user how would I know this is
           | to be expected? or that it's one random node?
        
             | LinuxBender wrote:
             | Joinpeertube.org is not a random node, however that site
             | links to many random nodes for the videos. One may or may
             | not realize when they click on a video that they are on a
             | new domain unless they glance at the URL bar. That is why I
             | was looking for clarification.
             | 
             | If you are experiencing issues on joinpeertube.org then it
             | may be worth running an OS update and ensuring you also
             | have the latest version of your browser to rule out CA
             | certificate store issues. CA stores are periodically
             | updated and LetsEncrypt did go through a change that will
             | eventually invalidate its older signing keys and
             | intermediate certificates. This would only impact people
             | that have stagnant operating systems or browsers unless one
             | is being routed through an outdated MitM _Man-in-the-
             | Middle_ HTTPS proxy.
             | 
             | We may be able to rule out MitM with openssl, see if the
             | fingerprint is the same for you.                   openssl
             | s_client -servername joinpeertube.com -connect
             | joinpeertube.com:443 < /dev/null 2>/dev/null | openssl x509
             | -fingerprint -noout -in /dev/stdin         SHA1 Fingerprint
             | =C0:4E:F2:F6:EA:2B:72:C5:84:E0:73:2C:2C:2B:BB:FB:A1:34:C8:2
             | 0
        
         | _ache_ wrote:
         | I don't. It a basic Let's Encrypt certificate. It comes from
         | you side.
        
       | college_physics wrote:
       | As always the French locale means there is a bit of language
       | barrier for the English speaking world, but framasoft supports a
       | whole host of interesting "fediverse" projects. I would maybe
       | single out mobilizon [0] as most intriguing. It is "simply" about
       | communities organizing events in a decentralized way.
       | 
       | [0] https://mobilizon.fr/
        
         | _ache_ wrote:
         | Humm, I can't see a thing that is not translated to _at least_
         | english. Not sure about the language barrier.
        
           | college_physics wrote:
           | once you start digging into frama forums, repos etc its a
           | more colorful picture. To be clear, I am not complaining:
           | steamrolling the world into a monoculture is not my idea of a
           | good online society, just saying that the impact of some open
           | source organizations like framasoft on tech might have been
           | higher had there not been a linguistic friction to overcome.
        
             | wizzwizz4 wrote:
             | "Impact on tech" doesn't just mean "impact on Silicon
             | Valley". Framasoft has been plenty influential in Europe,
             | and a decent chunk of that has been _because_ they 're not
             | just another anglophonic "international" (United States)
             | software house.
        
               | college_physics wrote:
               | I am with you, but some humility on the face of current
               | tech reality won't hurt, it might just help identify
               | structural obstacles and how to overcome them. E.g., we
               | are exchanging those views on a "Silicon Valley" platform
               | - if there ever was one. There is nothing remotely
               | equivalent to HN in Europe, primarily (I think) because
               | of linguistic frictions.
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | https://joinmobilizon.org/en/
        
       | abcc8 wrote:
       | I'm wondering how they plan to get decent content. I just
       | searched two of my interests, climbing and canoeing, and only a
       | handful of uninteresting videos popped up. Are there specific
       | topics that have engaging communities on the site?
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | Just like YouTube most content is crap. Maybe the bigger
         | problem is that searching on any one instance will only search
         | a small subset of the content available.
         | 
         | But it is mostly a discovery problem. Once you have found a
         | channel that you like it is easy to follow via RSS or
         | ActivityPub. I would love to see discovery services built on
         | top of PeerTube, it seems natural to separate the viewing
         | infrastructure from the recommendation service.
        
           | tsgagnon wrote:
           | _Just like YouTube most content is crap._
           | 
           | There is a huge difference between "there is lots of crap
           | content to wade through to get to the good content" and "I
           | can't find content that isn't crap". My foray into Peertube
           | over the years is that the latter is much closer than the
           | former.
        
           | JoshCole wrote:
           | Quality is a function of effort. Effort has a cost. The
           | typical cost for high quality is high effort.
           | 
           | A content creator producing quality content has spent a lot
           | of money in order to produce the high quality content. How
           | much? Estimates from YouTube creators who are currently in
           | the top creators get us numbers like $25,000-$1,000,000 per
           | video. If they do not reliably make more than that much from
           | trying to produce at that quality, they cannot survive while
           | doing so.
           | 
           | So a larger problem than content discovery is that by default
           | people producing quality content will die.
        
           | booteille wrote:
           | You can also use https://sepiasearch.org/ to find content
           | across most instances.
        
         | AstixAndBelix wrote:
         | That's like asking how Signal plans on getting nice people to
         | talk to. Peertube is just a self-hosted platform that allows
         | for bandwidth-efficient video sharing, it's up to the single
         | instance owners to care about publicizing their stuff.
        
           | hgsgm wrote:
           | Publicizing isn't the challenge. Monetizing is.
        
             | mariusor wrote:
             | Why do you think that monetizing is more of a challenge
             | when you own the platform that you publish on?
        
             | AstixAndBelix wrote:
             | It's open source. You could put Google Adsense API calls in
             | every nook and cranny of the platform if you like. Or any
             | other ad provider, for the matter
        
             | jehb wrote:
             | I understand your point, but it's worth pointing out that
             | for many of us, "difficult to monetize" is a feature, not a
             | bug.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | Based on the Mastodon experience (very quiet outside of small
         | niches until mid last year) you'll probably have to wait til
         | Youtube self-destructs.
        
           | hgsgm wrote:
           | It's different. Most people on Twitter are there to promote
           | their ideas and themselves, not get paid. So free syndication
           | is fine for them. Most popular/quality YouTube content is
           | there because the creator wants to get paid, not to spread
           | their ideas.
        
             | skybrian wrote:
             | Much of the content I watch on YouTube consists of obscure
             | music videos where nobody is getting paid (or maybe they
             | have a Patreon), but having someone else host your videos
             | for free is still a pretty good deal.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | ... I mean, I think 99.99% of people are on twitter to have
             | fun, not promote themselves. (Also some of the remainder
             | are on twitter specifically to moan about bad customer
             | service; it's surprising how many accounts you we
             | apparently used solely for this).
             | 
             | Similarly, most people on YouTube are not expecting to
             | strike it big with videos of their cat, or their hobby
             | project, or whatever.
        
       | robertlagrant wrote:
       | As a Brit I love the idea of a video service just for the titled
       | and ennobled.
       | 
       | May I ask - do the non-peers get any access at all? Even perhaps
       | as a degraded, low resolution service? If so, I'd like to know
       | where to register my disapproval.
        
         | phillc73 wrote:
         | If you do not wish to watch videos of fox hunting, Mayfair
         | house parties and Etonian high jinks, then commons-tube is for
         | you.
        
           | omginternets wrote:
           | Sir, I believe it is called "RubeTube".
        
             | nelele wrote:
             | [dead]
        
           | TomK32 wrote:
           | Don't forget the Boat Race and Royal Ascot. I just hope they
           | won't let the likes of John Oliver onto PeerTube.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | These days, a Lords-oriented tube site would actually be full
           | of videos on how to raise money for friends and family
           | without attracting scrutiny, or to sycophant your way to the
           | top of a political party - the primary qualifications of
           | modern peers.
        
         | seanhunter wrote:
         | Spectacular. Also, if you are a Lord, the resolution is 1080p,
         | from there it gets scaled up so Viscount, Earl etc up to you
         | have to be a Duke or minor royal to get 4k.
         | 
         | Audio could be auto dubbed into received pronunciation and any
         | food onscreen automatically replaced by deepfaked cucumber
         | sandwiches.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | EGreg wrote:
         | When Simon Cowell on Britain's Got Talent used to ask "peers,
         | what do you think?" I thought he was asking his fellow judges.
         | But no! He was asking Piers Morgan!
        
         | fredsmith219 wrote:
         | Fox hunts are paywalled, though.
        
       | aeharding wrote:
       | Nice seeing this on the top of HN, lucky timing, I was just
       | browsing code/blogposts etc last night and ended up donating
       | EUR30. I've been toying with the software and I've been pretty
       | impressed.
       | 
       | I'd like to see an invite-based signup option like Mastodon, but
       | other than that, it's a nice roadmap!
       | 
       | Edit: Created an idea post:
       | https://ideas.joinpeertube.org/posts/139/invite-links-to-cre...
        
       | raybb wrote:
       | Finally, I love that they've created https://peer.tube/ to
       | showcase good content on PeerTube. Discoverability has been quite
       | a challenge.
       | 
       | Also, remote transcoding of videos seems like a huge win! Makes
       | it so you won't need as beefy as a system to run PeerTube.
       | 
       | I wonder why FOSDEM doesn't use PeerTube to host their videos.
        
         | nodja wrote:
         | > Also, remote transcoding of videos seems like a huge win!
         | Makes it so you won't need as beefy as a system to run
         | PeerTube.
         | 
         | You can technically do it if you're willing to hack around.
         | Since it uses the ffmpeg binary you could technically replace
         | it with rffmpeg[1], the setup isn't pretty but it's doable. I
         | haven't done it myself but have seen reddit posts on the
         | jellyfin community that it works pretty well once setup.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/joshuaboniface/rffmpeg
        
         | codetrotter wrote:
         | > I wonder why FOSDEM doesn't use PeerTube to host their
         | videos.
         | 
         | I didn't watch any of their videos yet this year, but perhaps
         | the thing they are using to host their videos is something they
         | have built on their own, before PeerTube even existed? And so
         | if what they have works then that's a good reason to stick to
         | using that.
        
         | sschueller wrote:
         | Cool, I hope they keep it "safe for play store review". I have
         | had to run my own server in order to get the client[1] I wrote
         | to pass play store reviews.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/sschueller/peertube-android
        
       | AstixAndBelix wrote:
       | This guy has implemented a mind-boggling amount of features in
       | these years basically all alone and funded with a modest tech
       | salary.
       | 
       | Just goes to show how much potential small teams or even
       | individuals have that gets wasted in big corpos.
        
         | college_physics wrote:
         | Yes. This almost makes you giggle with excitement about what
         | sort of potential has accumulated around web technologies when
         | used creatively and with purpose.
         | 
         | Self-hosting is still not quite as easy as it could have been,
         | though.
        
         | Nifty3929 wrote:
         | I feel like this relates right back to the recent wave of
         | layoffs.
        
         | BlueTemplar wrote:
         | While extremely impressive, we shouldn't forget the support
         | that Framasoft provides him, and that he's building upon
         | WebTorrent software and Fediverse protocols.
        
         | rglullis wrote:
         | It also shows how the web (and technology in general) would be
         | a lot better for us if we decided to support these people just
         | a little bit, instead of letting ourselves be exploited by Big
         | Tech in exchange of "free" stuff.
        
           | tsgagnon wrote:
           | _It also shows how the web (and technology in general) would
           | be a lot more better for us if we decided to support these
           | people just a little bit, instead of letting ourselves be
           | exploited by Big Tech in exchange of "free" stuff._
           | 
           | The biggest issue with Peertube/Youtube is related to
           | creators and how they get paid for content they create.
           | 
           | Youtube has an avenue for that to happen, and Peertube
           | doesn't, or at least in a way that works.
           | 
           | Unless Peertube wants to just be "the place you host your
           | videos from other platforms as a backup" something would have
           | to be done.
        
             | LarryMullins wrote:
             | Youtube of ~15 years ago was mostly just Joe Randoms making
             | videos to amuse themselves or others, not trying to make a
             | career out of it. The videos were less polished but also
             | less soulless. This sort of content could thrive on
             | peertube, they don't have to win over the "influence
             | career" people.
        
               | tsgagnon wrote:
               | _This sort of content could thrive on peertube, they don
               | 't have to win over the "influence career" people._
               | 
               | But this isn't 15 years ago. There wasn't a huge player
               | in this space when Youtube was getting started, but now
               | there is. And now people know it's theoretically possible
               | to make decent money creating content.
        
             | phone8675309 wrote:
             | How many YouTubers, as a percentage of total users,
             | actually get paid a living wage by doing work on YouTube?
             | I'd assume that it's not many.
             | 
             | The ones that do aren't surviving on YouTube ad revenue
             | alone since the adpocalypse. They're doing so based on ad
             | reads and crowdfunding, both of which work on Peertube just
             | fine.
             | 
             | The only thing keeping them on YouTube is audience reach.
        
               | dualboot wrote:
               | It's a very large ocean at this point, so while the
               | percentages are small -- the number is quite large.
        
             | rglullis wrote:
             | The way to solve this, much like the way to solve R&D for
             | open source, is to educate consumers to pay to creators and
             | to eschew ad-funded business.
        
               | dwighttk wrote:
               | Has that ever worked?
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | On what scale are you talking about?
               | 
               | There are certainly plenty of stories of people who
               | produce content funded directly by their audience, but
               | none of them to match the money made by the top
               | Youtubers.
        
               | amalcon wrote:
               | "Educate" means to transfer skills and information, not
               | to increase the likelihood that people behave in a
               | certain way. The value-neutral term for the latter is
               | "influence".
               | 
               | I'm a bit glib here, but the distinction is actually
               | important. The ad industry, in particular, tends to use
               | "educate" when it means "influence."
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | I do believe though that it is a matter of _education_.
               | The absolute majority of people have no idea how the
               | sausage of social media content is made.
        
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       (page generated 2023-02-08 23:01 UTC)