[HN Gopher] The Samsung Galaxy S23's bloated Android build someh...
___________________________________________________________________
The Samsung Galaxy S23's bloated Android build somehow uses 60GB of
storage
Author : carride
Score : 246 points
Date : 2023-02-06 18:53 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| dangus wrote:
| Pile this onto the evidence mountain for "yet another reason to
| not buy anything from Samsung."
|
| And not just phones: washers, dryers, refrigerators, TVs,
| dishwashers you name it.
|
| Samsung is rarely a market leader, so you're basically never
| missing out by choosing someone else instead of them..
| cheriot wrote:
| I was just reading about Digital Turbine over the weekend. That's
| the company Samsung and others use to conduct real time bidding
| for which apps are preinstalled (when a new phone is activated).
| They handle ads for other pieces of bloatware like built-in news
| feeds as well.
|
| I had no idea the bloatware had become so advanced.
|
| It sounds like Samsung inflicts plenty of additional damage with
| their own copies of google's apps.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Wow that is such a second rate thing to do. Delegate an
| important design choice to "the highest bidder" instead of
| curate the best experience for the user.
| notinfuriated wrote:
| Wonder when they'll just start packaging garbage files to waste
| storage space to entice customers to buy the phone with the
| largest drive by default.
| bitwize wrote:
| More stuff for Joey Pardella to find when he hacks your phone!
| booboofixer wrote:
| Lorem Ipsum - Official Lyrics Video 4K 120Hz (8 hours)
| rolenthedeep wrote:
| This kind of shit is why I've decided to avoid Samsung wherever
| possible. I bought a galaxy watch years ago and got sucked in
| with a galaxy flagship phone and the Samsung earbuds.
|
| Every Samsung device I've ever owned since the galaxy s4 has been
| utter trash. The watch was never useful because Samsung wanted to
| create their own app ecosystem and all but abandoned it. My note
| 10+ is full of bugs and rooting it is entirely out of the
| question. My earbuds have been nothing but trouble and are
| thankfully finally dead enough that I can justify replacing them.
|
| Can't wait for this phone to finally die so I can replace it with
| something that I don't actively hate.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| I thought rooting Samsung's was quite a simple exercise with
| Odin. Why is it out of the question?
|
| I'm looking forward to when my wife upgrades her phone, so I
| can root the S10e.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| Some note series devices had some sort of contract with
| military, which made them totally impossible to root for eg.
| Note 4
| dredmorbius wrote:
| Do you have a citation on that?
| alex7734 wrote:
| While I don't know about his particular device, newer Samsung
| devices tend to permanently disable features (like the camera
| in the Fold devices) when you root them.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Carrier Snapdragon versions? No way. Verizon Note 9s are
| still quite unrootable, let alone custom ROM-able.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| It seems that most Samsung phones are locked down in the US.
| Other models have no issue besides KNOX tripping.
|
| KNOX tripping only disable some features you probably won't
| need unless you have a corporate phone, and you probably
| shouldn't mess with these anyways. At least in Europe,
| tripping KNOX doesn't void your warranty.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Even if your device lets you root it (many don't), you will
| trip the "Knox fuse." It's a small fuse inside the CPU that
| permanently burns out if you root, and permanently blocks
| Samsung Pay, Secure Folder, a few other Samsung security
| apps... and on the Galaxy Z Fold 3, your camera (though on
| the Z Fold 3, apparently, if you re-lock your bootloader the
| restriction goes away). Also said fuse cannot be reset so if
| you reinstall completely stock firmware, it's blown forever.
| stoppingin wrote:
| > ...permanently blocks Samsung Pay, Secure Folder, a few
| other Samsung security apps...
|
| Yet another good reason to root your phone. You wouldn't
| catch me using any of this Samsung shovelware.
| earthling8118 wrote:
| From what I could tell apparently a lot of banking apps
| will also stop working. I never bothered to confirm it
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Snapdragon versions are usually harder to root, and my
| carrier s21u here in Canada does not even have the bootloader
| unlock option that exynos versions do. But Exynos are always
| worse when it comes to thermals, camera quality, and
| performance. So the choice is often between a much more
| performant but locked Snapdragon or a more open phone but
| with the sometimes atrocious downgrade that comes with Exynos
| SoCs. Exynos used to be harder for custom roms to get right,
| but I think that's not the case anymoee.
| sakras wrote:
| Honestly, I've recently come to the realization that life is
| too short for things that "work" but don't bring joy to use.
|
| Don't torture yourself with this phone you hate, just splurge
| on a new one you'll like.
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| I agree. I tried every other brand to avoid apple but came back
| to apple this year. Samsung is bloatware and janky and google
| pixel was incredible but had really poor battery life and
| somehow even though android looked great, iOS did tiny micro
| interactions so much better. E.g. when holding the space in
| iOS, the whole keyboard becomes a virtual touchpad vs android
| where you can only go left or right horizontally.
| capitainenemo wrote:
| Their software is terrible, but their hardware is pretty nice.
| Shame they've been paring it down over the years. Pinnacle of
| their hardware, IMO was the Galaxy Note 4. Had their "antiglare
| AMOLED" (admittedly still not ideal for long device lifespan
| and outdoor use), wacom stylus with hover and right click
| (awesome for local or remote desktop sessions), replaceable
| battery, IR blaster, blood oxygen sensor, pulse measurement,
| audio jack, physical buttons.
|
| Nowdays I make do with their 2022 XCover6 - but I miss the
| features I lost.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| I still have my Galaxy Note 4. It refuses to die, and
| manufacturers refuse to give it a competitor.
|
| It may be its last year though, even though it is perfectly
| functional, and I blame app developers for that. It runs
| Android 6, and for the last couple of years, developers have
| been dropping support. LineageOS is an option, though on that
| particular phone, it is not as good as stock, and know some
| apps are going to piss me off because of SafetyNet. It is
| also starting to lack in processing power, as apps get more
| and more demanding even though they don't offer more in terms
| of features.
|
| My next phone is probably going to be the XCover6 too. Seems
| to be the only decent phone with a removeable battery, with
| the FairPhone, but the FairPhone has no SD card, no headphone
| jack, and I find it overpriced.
|
| BTW, the S5 was also an excellent phone, a combination of the
| two would have been perfect. It lacked a stylus, but it was
| waterproof and built like a tank even though it wasn't a
| rugged phone. It it also supported hovering on its
| touchscreen (called Air View), a feature I don't understand
| why it isn't present in every phone today, if just for its
| ability to support "hover" target in web pages. Its hardware
| implementation is also pretty cheap and clever: it is just a
| particular way of driving the capacitive touchscreen.
| earthling8118 wrote:
| The lack of touchscreen hover in modern devices is pure
| tragedy. I had an S5 as my first touchscreen phone and so
| many things have gone downhill since then. It had a
| removable battery, headphone jack, IR blaster, and just a
| ton of features.
|
| Each time I get a new one there are less useful features. I
| had an S8 that had a mimicked home button press with haptic
| feedback (since they removed physical buttons, this was
| perfect IMO). They removed that feature. There was an extra
| button for Bixby that could be (awkwardly) used by Tasker
| to have custom controls. Gone. They moved the buttons to
| all be on the same side and now one handed screenshots are
| hard to take.
|
| It's all a bit too much.
| jve wrote:
| People long for angular iPhone, I long for Samsung Galaxy S6
| Edge form factor. I wish it would have been available today.
| Well, anyways, mine S10 (small one) is okay feature/bug/hassle
| free-wise within my scoped use-cases.
| unit_circle wrote:
| I'm just holding out hope my S22 lasts until we have an iPhone
| with a USB-C port.
| LorenDB wrote:
| Reason number #107 to not use Samsung products.
| knaik94 wrote:
| This is the reason why I ended up with a non flagship, mid-tier,
| moto phone that allowed me to unlock the bootloader and root.
| Headphone jack and microsd card support was also a very high
| priority, and the reason why I didn't end up with a pixel. I want
| complete control over my device. With recent Android version it
| seems like Google is locking down the OS and making it closer to
| how iOS is.
|
| It's becoming harder to find good phones that allow bootloader
| unlocks and rooting while also being supported by AT&T, which I
| am tied to because of a family plan. Samsung phones, even if you
| buy the US non-carrier variant, don't allow bootloader unlocking.
| AT&T provisions VoLTE and VoWifi based on a Whitelist of phone
| models so international variants won't work on the network at
| all. A microsd card slow wouldn't fix the underlying issue of
| bloat but would at least decrease the impact of it.
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| Do bank apps still work with the rooted phone?
| ChickenNugger wrote:
| I laughed out loud at this part:
|
| >It's the size of two Windows 11 installs, side by side. What
| could Samsung possibly be putting in there?!
| [deleted]
| jpeter wrote:
| At least the S23 has no Exynos version. The battery was a joke on
| my S10e. I now have a Google Pixel 7 and the battery lasts 2x to
| 3x as long.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| It's already ridiculous that Android takes up 15GB. What the hell
| are they putting in there?! Modern technology is so depressing.
| enticeing wrote:
| From the article, it sounds like it's roughly half that on the
| Pixel 7 at least, around 7-8Gb, since they use an A/B os
| partition scheme to make OS updates work better.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> What the hell are they putting in there?!_
|
| Several ISOs of Call of Duty: MW2 and a BluRay-rip of Jingle
| All the Way.
| saagarjha wrote:
| Has anyone looked into what this is? I feel like this must be a
| bug, or a significant oversight at least.
| laweijfmvo wrote:
| Also curious. Having two Calculator apps != 60GB. It's gotta be
| some random data/model/locale stuff?
| kylepdm wrote:
| Nah, I think they just really "ship their org structure".
| wvenable wrote:
| For all the comments about "shovelware" here there's actually
| no way that all their software could take up all that space. It
| should be easy for someone with access to the phone to see
| what's actually in that partition.
| shp0ngle wrote:
| This article is kind of content free :( I remember Ars Technica
| being actually technical?
|
| The only actual information here is "Samsung Android is 60GB" and
| "Samsung doesn't use A/B paritioning". Which is nice, but can you
| give me more information? What is actually on there?
| [deleted]
| pleasantpeasant wrote:
| This is the future of AI internet articles.
|
| Short, less details, uninteresting, and a clickbait title.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| Your comment made me realize that reddit and HN and other
| semi-legit upvote/downvote sites are going to get even more
| important in the AI listicle era.
| sschueller wrote:
| That would explain why they got rid of the 128 GB version. Insane
| the amount of disk space we waste when we managed to fit
| incredible games on a few KBs in the 80s.
|
| It feels like when you build more highway lanes. Induced demand.
| grujicd wrote:
| They didn't for the smallest S23 (non-plus, non-ultra), it
| still has 128GB option.
| valzam wrote:
| But for the next 2 weeks you get the 256gb for the price of
| 128gb, maybe not a coincidence...
| MSFT_Edging wrote:
| I bought an s22 on fi because they offered a great deal. I really
| need a smaller phone and the smallest pixel just felt like
| garbage in the hand.
|
| I really hate the limitations the samsung phones have but I
| really don't know what else to buy. It seems like a simple ask to
| have a smallish phone with good build quality but it simply
| doesn't exist, and if it does it will almost always never get
| updates.
| valzam wrote:
| As someone who has used a S10e for 4 years and just ordered a S23
| I think people are blowing the "bloatware" way out of proportion.
| I use the Samsung apps I want, the rest are disabled/tucked away
| in a folder. I never get bothered to update the ones I don't use.
| My wife has a pixel 6a, I don't see how my Samsung is any more
| bloated after 5 mins of setup. In fact OneUI allows you to make
| everything look a lot more minimal and cleaner than the default
| pixel setup with it's huge buttons, colours everywhere and the
| google search bar you can't get rid of.
| xnavra50 wrote:
| They will never learn.
| gidorah wrote:
| Having two versions of the same apps (Android and Samsaung) would
| drive me insane. Why does anyone put up with this?
| wvenable wrote:
| Am I weird that I actually prefer the Samsung versions of most
| apps? I use Samsung email, notes, messages, health, etc.
| soco wrote:
| No you're not alone. Plus the zillion of alternatives which
| one can choose instead of complaining about app x. Why should
| I care they use space? My pictures use way more space... I
| selected Samsung based on camera reviews and it delivers just
| that.
| gidorah wrote:
| Not at all weird. My main grievance would be not being able
| to uninstall apps I don't use, not that someone else prefers
| another app.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| What Google giveth, Samsung taketh away.
|
| (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_and_Bill%27s_law>)
| MiddleEndian wrote:
| Android overall is a pretty terrible experience. Phone
| manufacturers will pay developers to make Android worse instead
| of just doing nothing. But presumably they get back the cash in
| ads or tracking from doing that.
| grumpyprole wrote:
| For me, iPhone is a terrible experience, e.g no proper FLAC
| support and poor Bluetooth codec support.
| WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
| This is why I love the Nothing Phone and my older Pixel 4A.
|
| Even my Moto G7 came with a relatively unbothered experience.
| LightHugger wrote:
| No headphone jack, it's not worth buying.
| WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
| Pixel 4A has one. I didn't even notice the Nothing Phone
| didn't until you just pointed it out.
| TillE wrote:
| I wish Apple still made a nice, inexpensive iPod Nano. That
| was my favorite "MP3 player", and I'd gladly go without a
| headphone jack on the phone if I could still have a
| separate portable music device that wasn't garbage.
| malermeister wrote:
| Samsung makes great hardware, but their software is a deal
| breaker. If only they could leave stock Android in peace they
| could be making great phones...
| jpeter wrote:
| Samsung Internet is a really good browser. I also like their
| file manager
| kevincox wrote:
| But they make so much money shoveling bloatware and ads on
| every device that they create. That's enough to make me never
| give another penny to Samgsung. (Well at least directly, their
| hardware is often used to make other devices which are hard to
| avoid.)
| shortcake27 wrote:
| My Samsung TV shows ads throughout the UI. Even when just
| bringing up the input switcher. Never will I purchase a
| Samsung product again.
| ddalex wrote:
| But their phone HW is SOOOO nice, I think it beats even apple
| on how beautiful, light and sparkly it is.
| malermeister wrote:
| And they often have best-in-class camera hardware, too. All
| squandered thanks to a terrible software strategy.
| phpisthebest wrote:
| The S23 mainly uses the same Sony Sensors that are in the
| Pixel 7 Pro.....
| magicalhippo wrote:
| I have a S21. It takes pretty terrible pictures, like all
| smeared out and void of details. Do I need to use a
| third-party camera app or something?
| joseph_grobbles wrote:
| [dead]
| lleb97a wrote:
| I'm typing this on an S7 that refuses to die. Not looking forward
| to buying a new phone.
| dagmx wrote:
| While I agree that this requires criticism, this felt unnecessary
| from the author
|
| > We can take a few guesses as to why things are so big. First,
| Samsung is notorious for having a shoddy software division that
| pumps out low-quality code. The company tends to change
| everything in Android just for change's sake, and it's hard to
| imagine those changes are very good.
| ryeights wrote:
| Samsung is the undisputed king of Android crapware. There's no
| crime in calling a spade a spade
| OnlineGladiator wrote:
| I genuinely do not understand why people protest others sharing
| negative opinions. The author dislikes Samsung's software and
| he's writing about it. I tend to agree with him, although I
| stopped buying Samsung years ago so maybe it's changed.
|
| Why is it problematic for him to share something that many
| people agree with? Why can't people fucking complain about shit
| sucking? Are we going to give Meta the benefit of the doubt the
| next time they say they care about our privacy or are we going
| to learn from history and call out a company on their lazy
| practices?
| themitigating wrote:
| "Why can't people fucking complain about shit sucking?"
|
| Not if it isn't justified
| OnlineGladiator wrote:
| Having used Samsung products in the past - how is it not
| justified?
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Samsung IMO has the best system UI of any current android
| device. Android UI is better than iPhone.
| somat wrote:
| My immediate reaction was "But there both android, they
| are going to be nearly identical" but I have to admit I
| don't really know. Whats the difference between samsung
| android and google android?
| Larrikin wrote:
| The only people I've ever met that share the opinion the
| Samsung UI is good are people who have only ever used
| Samsung phones.
|
| They make arbitrary changes, with pretty much none of
| them being enhancements, just a change for the sake of
| change. Like silly stuff like moving the placement of the
| back button. It's better than it was, but pretty much
| every other manufacturer has learned to just stick to
| mostly the stock experience unless there's an actual
| improvement.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| Eh, I've used Nexus, LG and Motorola in the past. I liked
| my LG alright.
|
| The Samsung is customizable enough, though they do change
| things from time to time. I am content that they provide
| me a way to adjust volume for different sound types
| easily, they allow me to choose media output quickly, and
| that the Always-On display can be configured to "only be
| on when I have new notifications" which functionally
| replaces notification LEDs for me.
|
| I run Nova for the home app, so I'm immune to some
| aspects of Samsung's control.
| dymk wrote:
| The stock Pixel UI is leagues better
| vidanay wrote:
| But it is justified. I can complain about whatever the hell
| I want to.
| dagmx wrote:
| Because it's not a nuanced view. It's the difference between
| constructive criticism and straight up shitting on something.
|
| It's shitting on the entirety of their work without trying to
| understand if they did certain things for specific user
| reasons or not.
|
| I think it's completely possible to complain about companies
| while still being constructive.
| OnlineGladiator wrote:
| Okay, but sometimes people deserve to have their work shat
| on. Not everything is worth defending. Sometimes shit just
| sucks, and after years of making the same criticisms it's
| tiring to repeat the reasoning ad infinitum since everybody
| already knows the conclusion.
|
| You're welcome to defend Samsung if you think they deserve
| it, but once you already have a bad reputation for
| something it seems you should expect to have to work to
| overcome it. I find it bizarre you think Samsung deserves
| some sort of special defense here. If anything I think the
| author was far too lenient.
|
| Most of the things I've worked on in my life have been
| utter fucking shit. Instead of defending it, I learned from
| it and improved. I don't see Samsung doing the same.
| dagmx wrote:
| Nobody is saying it needs to be defended. That's
| something you're implying that I never said.
|
| I just said that it's not a constructively critical view,
| it's just a rant.
| OnlineGladiator wrote:
| > Nobody is saying it needs to be defended. That's
| something you're implying that I never said.
|
| Fair. I apologize for being presumptuous.
|
| > I just said that it's not a constructively critical
| view, it's just a rant.
|
| Sure, but the rant is useful because it provides the
| context of Samsung sucking at the same thing consistently
| for years on end. You're right that it's not self-
| contained and if you were looking for that in the article
| you'd be disappointed. But at some point it just seems
| repetitive to have to explain things that have already
| been repeated for years. Like I don't really want to
| spend hours (not exaggerating as I've done it before)
| explaining why I hate cops every time I say so - most
| people are already well aware of the controversy
| surrounding cops and don't require an explanation even if
| they disagree.
|
| Anyway, I guess we just see it differently. Cheers.
| mouse_ wrote:
| I don't think that it's unnecessary. Samsung's "Not-Invented-
| Here" syndrome causes legitimate problems, and it is
| increasingly becoming a notable reason to steer clear of their
| products.
| Aachen wrote:
| Coming from stock Fairphone Android which was absolutely
| lacking features, I'm relatively happy with Samsung's
| additions. It's still not as good as Cyanogenmod with Xposed
| and other mods, but it goes a long way.
|
| The main problems I have with their customizations are
| universal: background app killing (apps you actually want to
| run) is a problem on any Android above 4.4, and it comes with a
| ton of tracking software which is also pretty universal aside
| from microG builds.
|
| Doesn't mean 60GB is justified, but I will never understand the
| love for a barebones skin that is faster but also makes half
| the things you do require twice as many interactions.
| snozolli wrote:
| I can't speak to the first half, but the second half of that
| quote is absolutely true.
| malermeister wrote:
| I can speak to the first half. I used to be the solo dev of a
| popular Android app and kept getting weird crash reports from
| Samsung devices.
|
| Only after decompiling the Samsung Android framework, I
| realized that one of the "features" they added kept making
| some unguarded `.equals()` comparison that kept throwing
| null-pointer exceptions because the String wasn't guaranteed
| to be non-null.
| TomK32 wrote:
| > Another round of crapware will also be included if you buy a
| phone from a carrier, i.e., all the Verizon apps and whatever
| space they want to sell to third parties. The average amount
| users are reporting is 60GB, but crapware deals change across
| carriers and countries, so it will be different for everyone.
|
| So that 60GB is with additional apps the carrier forces onto you.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Why is why no one should buy devices from the mobile network
| operators, in the US. That has been true ever since iPhone came
| out and broke their stranglehold on selling malware laden
| devices.
| snozolli wrote:
| I have a Samsung S20 and I'll never buy another Samsung phone
| again unless they drastically change course.
|
| Their dumb insistence on fighting Google at every turn means that
| Google Fi's Visual Voicemail is broken on Samsung devices. I also
| get regular nag notifications to create or log into a Samsung
| account, agree to some Samsung TOS that I'm not even a part of,
| or other nonsense.
|
| The phone _looks_ sleek, but the rounded edges mean that the edge
| of the screen is distorted and useless, and combined with the
| slick surfaces it practically catapult itself off of common
| household furnishing.
|
| The much-touted, three-lens camera isn't even any good! The
| photos are dull, over-processed, and show lens distortion at
| various points across the image.
| hnburnsy wrote:
| Use the Universal Android Debloater. It makes your Samsung
| phone like the early Oneplus phones, clean and fast. Super
| happy with my S20 Ultra after having Oneplus for years.
|
| Tip get a certified refurb from Amazon, 90 days to return if
| not happy.
| ysleepy wrote:
| I have an S21 and I'm very happy.
|
| https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater
|
| I disabled most of samsung's stuff though, no nagging for a
| samsung account or anything.
| askonomm wrote:
| > I'm very happy
|
| 1. Buy phone
|
| 2. Disable most stuff
|
| 3. Use some experimental third party tool to "debloat" phone
|
| I don't know, that's the exact stuff that would make me the
| opposite of happy.
| vb6sp6 wrote:
| [dead]
| myko wrote:
| To be fair this is the kind of forum where many folks will
| kind these activities entertaining.
| SlackingOff123 wrote:
| There's unfortunately no such thing as the perfect phone. I
| think the initial effort of setting up a new
| phone/computer/whatever is a good trade-off it means
| afterwards I get the experience I want (or as close as I
| can get).
| hasmolo wrote:
| i've never had to uninstall stuff from an iOS device. i
| always _must_ root android devices to make them work
| 'well'.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| My 2000s Razr wants a word
| akira2501 wrote:
| > agree to some Samsung TOS that I'm not even a part of
|
| That one happens weekly and it deeply annoys me. I've paid
| premium money for your device and you're still engaging in this
| rent seeking relationship building crap and using _my_ device
| to persistently bother _me_ with it. What did I even pay you
| for?
|
| I will absolutely be looking outside of Samsung for the next
| one.
| eweise wrote:
| That's why I bought a Google Pixel. Had a Samsung phone and
| couldn't stand all the crapware they put on it.
| topicseed wrote:
| Loved my Samsung S21 Ultra overall, but holy moly the installed
| apps...
|
| Anyway, now with a Pixel 7 Pro and would take a lot to make me
| go astray.
| newaccount2021 wrote:
| [dead]
| boarush wrote:
| So no one here seems to have actually used a recent Samsung
| device. "System" includes user apps and system apps unless "My
| Files" is granted the permission for usage access. Several
| comments on the article and in the Twitter thread have already
| pointed it out.
| lockhouse wrote:
| Meanwhile my iPhone has a little over 12G used by iOS and System
| Data.
|
| I know I'm comparing Apples to Oranges, err ummm Androids here,
| but still!
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| Samsung hardware is top-notch, but the software bloat is
| ridiculous. The problem is they make some OS changes that are
| actually useful to the end-user, especially when Google seems to
| be asleep at the wheel.
|
| We got _really really close_ for a couple years there when HTC
| was shipping excellent hardware (the HTC One line) along with an
| interface that felt like a barely-skinned vanilla Android
| operating system. But then they kept hemorrhaging money, losing
| market position, and sold off most of their engineers to Google.
| Oh well...
| myko wrote:
| I agree re: the hardware but Google's OS feels pristine/top of
| class in the mobile world, Samsung (and other phone maker's)
| bloatware just seems annoying.
| lcfcjs wrote:
| [dead]
| clumsysmurf wrote:
| Android has a bloat problem in general. I uninstalled almost
| everything on my new iPad. On my Pixel 6A, I can only disable
| stock apps (they are still there taking up space). Its 2023, I
| should be able to completely uninstall apps I don't need.
| murderfs wrote:
| That's likely because Apple is doing the same thing but just
| lying to you about it. You can't uninstall stock apps because
| they came on a read-only system image that was signed by your
| device manufacturer.
| tpush wrote:
| You can't uninstall apps contained in the OS image; you're
| just hiding them. Applies to Android as much as iOS and
| macOS, too, for that matter.
| nijave wrote:
| Afaik on Android you can still uninstall updates so you're
| left with the OS image app version instead of OS image app
| + updated app
|
| On the other hand, now you have an old app version
| lingering
| nijave wrote:
| LineageOS (Android build without Google Play) is generally
| <500MiB. Google apps usually had on something like
| 500MiB-1.5GiB depending on what you install. Usually OEM
| devices have at least that much plus whatever their own stuff
| is piled on
| nfriedly wrote:
| Man, HTC made some of my favorite phones. I wish they were
| still doing it.
|
| Some of Motorola's mid-range phones are actually pretty good
| these days - the moto g100 has performance roughly on par with
| a flagship from a couple of years ago, a huge battery, a
| microSD slot, a headphones jack, USB-C video output with "Ready
| For" which is arguably better than Samsung Dex (aside from the
| name), and official LineageOS support. I got mine for ~$270 on
| ebay, and if it broke, I'd probably buy the same phone again.
|
| The Sony Xperia 1 IV and 5 IV are also interesting, with many
| of those same features, but the Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 CPU is hot
| garbage and Sony didn't provide sufficient cooling (or tuning)
| to keep it from overheating and thermally throttling after a
| few minutes of usage.
| Acutulus wrote:
| HTC devices were great.
|
| I too have had pretty good experiences with motorola lately.
| In early '21 I wanted a decent and metaphorically disposable
| phone so I got an unlocked moto G play from the local Target.
| I expected it to, like seemingly all others, have a locked
| bootloader and/or completely prevent root access. But I was
| pleasantly surprised! With a visit to motorola's website IMEI
| in hand and a couple hours of pulling up XDA pages (like the
| good old days) I had my device the way I wanted it.
|
| It would be nice if mine didn't ship with the amount of
| bloatware that it did given that I couldn't find a
| replacement ROM at the time. But after some filesystem
| scouring and ADB commands it was cleaned up enough for me.
|
| When I end up needing another new phone I'll likely hunt down
| another motorola, and probably the g100 given your positive
| experience; thanks for sharing it
| isthiseasymode wrote:
| > Samsung hardware is top-notch, but the software bloat is
| ridiculous.
|
| Their self developed UIs are also garbage. My Samsung tv remote
| has no source button and source menu is hidden in home all the
| way to the left. If I make the mistake of clicking on an
| unrecognized device, it spends forever trying to detect it.
|
| I may just be complaining about smart tvs in general, but my
| old TCL was not this much of a pain to use.
| burnte wrote:
| I don't use Samsung phones for this reason. The hardware is
| great but their UI is such total garbage I can't stand it.
| acomjean wrote:
| our samsung TV does this as well. You plug your computer into
| it and it takes like 15 seconds trying to figure out what it
| is. .Then you have to select manual, and PC.
|
| I thought after a while I was imagining things, but I pluged
| my laptop into our old "dumb" sony and it was showing to the
| screen in less than one second.
| tpxl wrote:
| Oh, but it gets worse. Upon plugging a laptop into our TV,
| the image is displayed, then it overlays the 'detecting
| input' thing for about 5 seconds, then it switches back to
| the image.
| yongjik wrote:
| Same. I had a TCL "smart" TV which was pretty straightforward
| to use, and then my teenage daughter decided to get tripped
| up on the cord. Ruined the TV, decided to buy one with sturdy
| feet that won't trip, ended up buying Samsung.
|
| Man, the UI is a clusterfuck. A lovecraftian horror show.
|
| At least the feet are stable.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| Just wait until you try Sony. My mother required a
| television so I bought her one.
|
| Sony is a good brand right? WiFi drops out at the most
| random times. The router is touching differences away.
|
| The UI lags as it tries to connect to netflix to download
| all the latest "trends". So you have to wait many-
| frustrating seconds upon turning on the TV to actually use
| any UI feature. You can't even change the channel during
| that time.
|
| Firmware upgrades when it wants.
|
| BBC iPlayer has a dogtag that appears on any BBC channel
| "Press Green to watch from beginning" that intrudes any
| program witb no opt-out setting.
|
| Sigh.
| mlyle wrote:
| > The router is touching differences away.
|
| Probably not your problem, but too close can actually be
| much worse than a moderate distance away. Radios struggle
| with dynamic range, and overly strong signals can be as
| bad as weak ones.
| ocbyc wrote:
| LG+ ROKU seems to be a good alternative to Samsung's Bloat.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _Samsung hardware is top-notch_
|
| Sometimes. In some ways. Their appliances (washer/dryer/etc)
| are notoriously unreliable, and their phone batteries appear to
| swell more than others.
| kop316 wrote:
| > Their appliances (washer/dryer/etc) are notoriously
| unreliable
|
| Yep. I am in a house that is all Sanmsung appliances. The
| Dishwasher's intake valve started leaking, the Oven's LCD
| panel broke and only showed garbled information, and the
| dryer's heating source broke. These were all appliances
| bought in 2019.
|
| Thankfully, I was able to get replacement parts for the first
| two and fix easily enough, but there was no way to easily fix
| the dryer (I ended up getting a new dryer).
|
| There is no way I would buy a Samsung Appliance again, and it
| frankly makes me question the quality of anything they make.
| ocbyc wrote:
| LG seems to be the more reliable alternative in each of
| these areas.
| seszett wrote:
| Since we're telling anecdotes on Samsung appliances, well I
| have to say my Samsung fridge bought in 2008 works just fine
| today. It's just a fridge though, not much to go wrong with
| that I guess.
| sundvor wrote:
| Ha ha, I just made a post that reads almost exactly like
| yours. Saw yours after. We might have the same model
| fridge. :)
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > Their appliances (washer/dryer/etc) are notoriously
| unreliable
|
| What I don't get about this is that consumer reports
| continues to frequently recommend their appliances. We bought
| a Samsung fridge, and that experience told me "don't buy any
| more Samsung appliances" but when we needed a new washer and
| dryer, CR rated a pair of Samsungs as top of the list. I
| thought "well, CR is supposed to be reliable, so maybe I am
| okay to get these."
|
| Both broke within the first 18 months of ownership and left
| us unable to wash clothes until a repair could be scheduled.
|
| Fool me twice, yep. I'm the fool. But I can learn, and never
| another Samsung appliance shall be brought into my house.
| With the possible exception of a TV; my current TV is a big
| Samsung and it's been flawless. I think it's actually a
| different company entirely, even though the appliances and
| electronics all claim to be "Samsung"
| FractalParadigm wrote:
| Friends of mine own an appliance store. They begrudgingly
| sell Samsung appliances and TVs because that's what people
| want to buy. No matter how much they tell their customers
| that Samsung is crap, and that they'll be replacing their
| appliances in 18-24 months. Cue the customer's surprised
| when they're back 22 months later buying a new non-Samsung
| washing machine or dishwasher, paid out of pocket, because
| Samsung came up with _some_ ridiculous reason why warranty
| won 't cover it.
| SllX wrote:
| Samsung makes good components but they make lousy products.
| If you're tempted by a Samsung TV, find another brand that
| has their panels (e.g. I know Sony used their QD-OLED
| panels).
| rootusrootus wrote:
| That's a good piece of advice I hadn't thought of. I hope
| my Samsung TV lasts many more years, as it seems to be
| one of the last "smart" TVs that isn't preloaded with ads
| (and I've never connected it to the 'net, nor will I).
| That's going to be my major bit of research whenever it
| comes time to buy the next one. If I must, I'll get a
| commercial unit.
| sundvor wrote:
| As we are discussing anecdotes, my Samsung fridge is over
| 15 years old and still ticking along ok. I've cracked one
| of the plastic shelves and it's hard to get replacement
| parts, that's all.
|
| And for a nearby post: Older phone batteries tend to go out
| if stored fully charged and left for ages. Turning them off
| at 50% is the better option, especially if cycled once in a
| while.
| Marsymars wrote:
| CR relies on user surveys for their reliability
| metrics/estimates. Are those failing to appropriately
| capture appliance reliability for some reason?
| rootusrootus wrote:
| That's the only explanation I can think of. Out in the
| wild I hear nothing but bad reviews of Samsung appliances
| from other owners. On the repair forums, they have a
| similar reputation (they're great for business, if you
| are a repair pro).
|
| I still rely on CR, however, in the absence of personal
| experience, bias, or that of someone else I trust. I just
| bought a new induction cooktop and Samsung was nowhere to
| be found on their recommended list, so I thought maybe
| they were starting to get wise to all the problems, but I
| noticed that the top gas cooktops are Samsung. Maybe
| those particular models _are_ that good, but I 'd never
| risk finding out. Gas cooktops are awfully simple
| devices, though, so the risk is limited.
| anakaine wrote:
| We bought a Samsung washer and a Samsung dryer 6 months
| ago. Top of the line. I've never had a front loader before,
| didn't want one, but here were are.
|
| Every month or so the bottom filter sensor says that its
| blocked. So you have a machine full of water that can't
| drain, and the lowest point in the machine saying there's a
| blockage. There's not. There never is. It's an optical
| sensor that gets dirty. The thing is, at that point, the
| only way to drain the machine and clean the sensor is by
| undoing a little 3mm ID hose and pulling the stopper out
| that they have helpfully supplied. You get water
| everywhere. Why on earth you would use an optical sensor in
| a machine built to handle dirty water, small solids, and is
| known to accumulate soap and detergent scum is absolutely
| beyond me.
|
| To remedy that, I have a 12v laptop adapter + a 12v bilge
| pump for a boat and some spare drain hose, put the bilge
| pump in a baking tray, let the bilge pump take care of
| sending the water to the shower or sink, and drain the
| machine via the tiny hose. Clean off the sensor with water
| from a spray bottle, maybe a little vinegar or glass
| cleaner. Replace everything, and start the load.
|
| Well over $1,500 of machine and in my mind it's a piece of
| crap. I wished for a small commercial top loader. It didn't
| match the nice theme. Now we have a Rube Goldberg disaster
| mitigation plan that gets actioned quite frequently.
|
| Also, booking a Samsung service tech is hard.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| > my current TV is a big Samsung and it's been flawless.
|
| The TVs are better... but the OS was too much for me. Not
| only because it is full of ads and unlikely to get updates
| for very long, but also because it's Tizen (which one
| security researcher, admittedly in 2017, said "may be the
| worst code I've ever seen" and "Everything you can do wrong
| there, they do it." He also single-handedly found 40
| separate flaws.) Considering Samsung's track record, I find
| it hard to believe that they would have improved in the
| last 5 years.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-
| ri...
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Can speak to that. We went with a Samsung kitchen about ~5
| years ago. 2 Dishwashers, 1 Refrigerator, 1 Robot Vacuum, and
| 2 Stoves later... well, we still have the 2nd Samsung
| Refrigerator (covered in dents though because the "stainless
| steel" is apparently super thin) and the Microwave (though we
| have been told it has a critical flaw, so treat the door
| gently), but everything else isn't Samsung anymore. It just
| all broke in one way or another. We also had a Galaxy Note9
| in the family that became ludicrously slow after a year and
| started dropping phone calls - apparently a known software
| issue that randomly plagued people, absolutely no fix to this
| day, software reset will not fix.
|
| We basically went to all Bosch and Apple after that. Heaven
| help anyone who bought recent high-end Samsung SSDs and
| doesn't read the news.
| aceazzameen wrote:
| For a few phone generations, I thought Samsung's OS changes
| were superior to AOSP. But it seems like they've been
| degenerating back to the old clunky TouchWiz days lately. But
| if I'm being honest, I'm not happy with any phone
| manufacturer's hardware/software anymore.
| homero wrote:
| Then they take away the micro SD card for no legit reason
| nikolay wrote:
| I'm not sure why Samsung keeps doing this - there are many apps,
| their store conflicts often with Google Play Store. Yes, they
| offer stellar hardware, but I am now considering Pixel! And you
| can uninstall most of their "system" apps!
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| Holy spacewasting shovelware batman! At what point would it make
| sense to mandate that the manufacturer has to put the net space
| on the packaging and on their product page? Advertising a phone
| with 128gb of storage and half is already gone right out of the
| box almost sounds like fraud.
| IronWolve wrote:
| And no sdcard expansion.
| [deleted]
| Tade0 wrote:
| Never mind the bloatware, why have phones have become so bloated
| in both weight and dimensions?
|
| The S23 at 168g is by far the lightest Snapdragon 8 Gen 2
| phone(runner-up is 185g), but that's still heavy. What gives?
| knaik94 wrote:
| I don't mind the size at all because it means a nice big
| battery. I can't tell you the difference between 350g and 200g
| while holding it. Has the weight ever been an issue where it's
| made your hand tired?
|
| I understand the frustration of big screens though, I
| personally prefer them but I also haven't had issues reaching
| things with my thumbs regardless of phone size.
| kypro wrote:
| I wonder how much it has to do with it being easier to post
| flagship stats in a larger chassis?
|
| Although I think the right answer is simply that people prefer
| larger screens for video and phones today make much better use
| of empty space.
| jakub_g wrote:
| This overall trend towards massive phones is nuts. I recently
| reluctantly bought a Pixel 6, but I didn't expect how much
| heavier it would be over my aging Pixel 3a (207g vs 147g).
| Pixel 6a is 178g, still not light.
| dopa42365 wrote:
| A single TB of a high speed NVMe SSD is as little as 50EUR (and
| Samsung is paying a fraction of that, of course).
|
| Why even obsess over a few cents of storage so much?
| notatoad wrote:
| according to samsung's current pre-order promotion [1], an
| extra 128GB of storage is a $240 upgrade. that 60GB is worth
| $120, not pennies.
|
| [1] https://www.samsung.com/ca/smartphones/galaxy-s23/buy/
| bruh2 wrote:
| What brand of Android phones would you guys usually go for?
| anything that gives smooth, AOSP, non-flashy experience?
| petodo wrote:
| Xiaomi or pixel with custom ROM, neither of them blow any fuse
| pas wrote:
| nothing phone 1, so far I'm totally sold.
| xnx wrote:
| I have only used and would only ever consider Google Nexus /
| Pixel phones. The modifications made by every third party seem
| to make things worse.
| xxpor wrote:
| Pixel.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Pixel phones are great for a clean android experience, but you
| have to wholeheartedly sell your soul to google.
|
| Midrange motorola phones can also be clean and open.
| somat wrote:
| I have an old refurb pixel 3 I bought to put linage OS on but
| it was a verizon device and has a locked bootloader. sigh so
| no alternate android for me.. Anyway I am using it as a daily
| driver with the stock pixel android package and have zero
| google accounts. I mainly use f-droid and adb.
| sanchay wrote:
| Check out Aurora store as an alternative to Play Store
|
| No Google login yet have access to all apps without the
| hassle of adb
|
| I personally use F-droid + Aurora Store.
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| There's also GrapheneOS as an option for Pixel phones for an
| even cleaner Android experience.
| mey wrote:
| Nova launcher on the Pixel is a great combo for a non-rooted
| clean Android experience. You can disable many Google
| tracking/privacy things at that point, have a clean UI and
| quick security updates. One issue I have run into is Google
| breaking app switching on occasion because they want to use
| their launcher as the app switcher. Haven't seen this issue
| in the last year thankfully.
| nfriedly wrote:
| I went from a "flagship" Pixel to a midrange Motorola (the
| moto g100), and I'm very happy with it. I got a nice
| performance upgrade, a microSD slot, a headphones jack,
| battery for days, and an unlockable bootloader - all for less
| than half of what I paid for my Pixel.
|
| (While most Pixels have unlockable bootloaders, including
| mine initially, Google screwed me when I sent mine in to
| repair a broken USB-C port. The phone I got back had a
| permanently locked bootloader, which basically cut it's
| usable lifespan in half. Annoyingly, I replaced the battery
| shortly before realizing this!)
| andyjohnson0 wrote:
| I've had a few Motorola phones and they've always seemed
| reasonably close to stock Android. A few oem shell addons, but
| nothing that I found annoying or intrusive. Currently using an
| Edge 20.
| MonkeyMalarky wrote:
| My spouse just got a pixel 7 in fall. Good price, adequate
| specs and zero carrier/vendor bloat. The only regret is living
| in a cold climate (Quebec!) where the glass over the camera
| could potentially shatter at any moment and google doesn't
| acknowledge the design defect. Oops.
|
| Edit because people apparently don't believe what I'm saying:
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/01/google-pixel-7-users...
| [deleted]
| simplyaccont wrote:
| Sony
| OulaX wrote:
| I usually look for a phone that has proper LineageOS support
| and a strong xda community of third party ROMs, Kernels and
| what not.
|
| I usually go to LineageOS's download page, and browse through
| the phone list for a not so old phone that has builds for the
| newest version. Afterwards I check its xda page, read the specs
| for the phone, check reviews on YouTube and finally decide.
|
| I used to like Pixel phones, but sometimes even the Google
| experience is too much for me.
|
| These things are a matter of personal preference, take the
| community's opinions then decide on your own based on your use
| cases.
| le-mark wrote:
| My two must have apps are Amazon Authenticator and Okta for
| 2FA, what's the story with apps on LineageOS?
| iuafhiuah wrote:
| These days it's very easy to use Google Play on LineageOS
| as if it were an official ROM. Usually because you're
| telling Google you are to pass SafetyNet.
|
| I've used Okta Verify on Lineage 19 without issue. Although
| I managed to get Okta to spit out a regular MFA string so I
| could dump Verify and use my regular MFA app.
| nfriedly wrote:
| Along those lines, https://www.sustaphones.com/ is another
| nice site to find phones with support LineageOS and other
| custom Android versions.
| Gerard0 wrote:
| I am using Pixel 6 + Graphene atm and am quite happy.
|
| edit: phone has no fast charging though. I couldn't believe
| that when I got it.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| I have a Moto G5plus that I would still be using if only the
| battery hadn't died. So now I use it as an Internet radio and I
| bought a Moto G30: cheap, reliable, decent cameras, fast
| enough, 128 GB storage, dual sim, more than two day battery
| life unless I record hours of video. And Moto don't add much
| bloat.
| unexistential wrote:
| At least for the foreseeable future, I'm going to be buying a
| Pixel and immediately installing GrapheneOS on it whenever I
| need to upgrade my phone.
|
| The experience is not perfect, and especially if you opt to not
| even keep the sandboxed Google Play Services, lots of apps just
| won't work. But it's a trade-off I'm happy to make.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Fairphone my dude. I'm surprised nobody mentioned it.
| dangus wrote:
| Not officially available in the US, which usually means US
| buyers should really stay away.
|
| IMO not having official carrier support is not worth any
| amount of fairness.
| bilkow wrote:
| I've been meaning to get a Fairphone for a while. Would you
| (or anyone else here) recommend it?
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Not an owner, but at work nearly half the devs rocking
| Android have Fairphones and everyone happy. The only downer
| for me is that it's a bit bulky.
| msh wrote:
| Only if you dont need a camera, its really bad for its
| pricepoint.
| pjmlp wrote:
| I usually go with Nokia, even if they aren't producing the
| devices themselves.
| snarfy wrote:
| One Plus is ok for a generic android experience, but there are
| some caveats.
|
| I couldn't for the longest time do simple things like scan a QR
| code. Everybody else in the world just points their camera app
| at the QR code and it works. I have to open Lens explicitly to
| do it.
|
| It's still much better than Samsung's crapdroid experience.
| Google Assistant or ... Bixbsy routines? Nobody wants that
| shit, Samsung.
| Oxodao wrote:
| The OP6 was their last great phone. Now they're just generic
| android device that cost the same as any other brand and miss
| the same feature (Remember when OP were joking about apple
| removing the headphone jack. Guess what happened with the
| OP6T ?)
|
| Really sad that mine got water damaged and no longer works.
| Even though it no longer had software update, running custom
| roms it was perfect. It was 3 years old and could probably
| served me at least another 3. I got the OPPO x3 lite but I
| miss my OP6 everyday. I'll probably end up fixing it when I
| get the time
| killjoywashere wrote:
| I think the major caveat for One Plus is that they are a
| Chinese company and are required to comply with Chinese law.
| Google is likely required to comply with various legal
| regimes as well, but they're not required to hand over my
| data to the CCP. One Plus is.
| vel0city wrote:
| I enjoyed my Motorola devices in the past. Possibly a good
| amount of rose tinted glasses, but the 2014 Moto X was probably
| my favorite Android phone out of the box so far. They usually
| don't modify too much of the base Android experience and the
| few things they tend to add, such as the camera app and some
| gesture support, seem to work better than the AOSP stuff. I
| didn't like NFC support had been pushed to only their higher
| end devices, as I really enjoy tap to pay from my phone and
| other NFC features.
|
| The last two devices I've owned have been Pixel devices.
| They've been pretty solid. I still think I liked the 4a over
| the 6a; I've had some touch accuracy/sensitivity oddities with
| the 6a.
| LorenDB wrote:
| I own a Motorola and I've had a very good experience (other
| than the fact that it's got Google in the OS, like all
| Androids, and the time I upgraded to Android 12 and decided I
| hated it).
| mihaic wrote:
| The Pixel 5 is still to me the most pleasant Android to use.
| It's made of non-cheap plastic that's really light, especially
| when carried without a case, and is the perfect size for me.
|
| In several years, I haven't seen a flagship Android that's
| lighter, smaller or that isn't brittle glass.
| FpUser wrote:
| Pixel 6 Pro works fine for me. The phone does not really run my
| life so I am not really deep into what's in there.
| kramerger wrote:
| Used to be an AOSP guy, but Samsungs one ui is growing on me.
|
| There is some function bloat,but you learn to disable stuff you
| don't use and I think Samsung is getting better at making their
| crap useful crap.
| durnygbur wrote:
| I'm unable to count how many times I bricked my and my family's
| Samsung phones in attempt to remove bloatware apps and services.
| You think it's as easy a one liner with service name and `adb
| uninstall`? oooops wrong service, now you have to hard reset and
| reinstall the device...
| hnburnsy wrote:
| Universal Android Debloater, will detect your model and suggest
| what to remove that is safe.
| neilv wrote:
| Maybe the same logic that led to all the lenses.
|
| https://www.theonion.com/fuck-everything-were-doing-five-bla...
| [deleted]
| therein wrote:
| Yeah, what were they thinking.
|
| That thing looks disturbingly ugly. This multi-lens thing is
| getting out of hand.
| gentle wrote:
| I've moved from a Samsung S10+ to a Google Pixel 6 Pro and I
| couldn't be happier, and it's mainly because of November like
| this.
|
| I also hate that they got rid of their headphone jacks and
| removable storage. They were the few differentiations that kept
| me on Samsung.
| causi wrote:
| It's sad. There are a lot of things I love about Samsung phones.
| Double-tapping the power button to turn the flashlight on, the
| Samsung TTS engine, DeX mode, always-on OTG functionality. I
| can't justify the continued anti-consumer behavior though.
| andyjohnson0 wrote:
| > Samsung may want to give the appearance of having its own non-
| Google ecosystem, and to do that, it clones every Google app that
| comes with its devices. Samsung is contractually obligated to
| include the Google apps, so you get both the Google and Samsung
| versions.
|
| Unfortunately this is nothing new. I bought a Galaxy S7+ table
| nearly two years ago and it was _infested_ with crappy Samsung
| apps (two calculators... why?).
|
| Eventually I used adb to uninstall a bunch of stuff, but they're
| still taking up storage space even if I can't see them. Absurd.
|
| Apart from the crapware it's a decent tablet though.
| petodo wrote:
| > Eventually I used adb to uninstall a bunch of stuff, but
| they're still taking up storage space even if I can't see them.
| Absurd.
|
| So you didn't uninstall them, you disabled them.
| andyjohnson0 wrote:
| > So you didn't uninstall them, you disabled them.
|
| No, I installed them.
|
| Samsung had marked them as being non-uninstallable via the
| Android Settings UI, so I used `adb -d shell pm uninstall
| --user 0 <packagename>` to forcibly uninstall them, although
| (as I said) the code is still in the rom.
|
| Simply disabling them could be done using the UI, or with
| `adb -d shell pm disable <packagename>`, but they'd still be
| cluttering the apps list - which is not what I wanted.
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