[HN Gopher] The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012)
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       The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012)
        
       Author : chha
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2023-02-06 11:53 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.otherhand.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.otherhand.org)
        
       | jonah wrote:
       | I read this series and some of Mahood's other writings just as I
       | was getting into Search and Rescue myself and it was quite
       | inspiring.
       | 
       | I've been on a few extended searches and there's a lot of thought
       | and research that goes into getting into people's heads to try to
       | figure out where they went.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | The search for Bill Ewasko is the one that really weirds me out:
       | https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/search...
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | I grew up (what I since learned people distinguish as
       | "primitive") camping, hiking, in the ocean, etc. Not fear, but
       | respect, for the power of nature was ingrained from the time of
       | my earliest memories.
       | 
       | It wasn't until I was an adult I realized I was assuming this was
       | universal and sadly it's definitely not.
       | 
       | I hear stories like this more often than I'd like and all I can
       | do is shake my head. It's just sad and tragic and unnecessary.
        
       | LarryMullins wrote:
       | Crazy that you can call a place _Death_ Valley and still have
       | people not take it seriously.
        
         | dsfyu404ed wrote:
         | The threshold for warning people of danger in modern society is
         | so low that people become desensitized.
        
           | panzagl wrote:
           | I mean, if you go to Death Valley from the California side
           | you've already been told you have, like, a million cancer
           | exposures.
        
         | sizzzzlerz wrote:
         | people are idiots. every year people die in the park because
         | they know better than the rangers and go out when it's 130
         | without water or a hat
        
         | basementcat wrote:
         | Death Valley can be quite beautiful in the spring, especially
         | after a rainy winter.
         | 
         | https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/wildflower-seasons.htm
        
       | nivenkos wrote:
       | It's horrible that it seems the parents died before the children
       | too. What an awful way to die, but totally understandable that in
       | the moment they were more worried about retrieving the rental car
       | and making it to LA on time than finding shelter for the long
       | haul.
        
       | brazzy wrote:
       | Since the first time I read this, I've wondered what they could
       | have done to survive once the car got stuck. The only thing I
       | came up with is to set fire to the car and hope the smoke would
       | get someone to come look.
        
         | metacritic12 wrote:
         | I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the car
         | not have bought them enough time?
         | 
         | I don't know if the advantage was enough, but basically the
         | conclusion was that they found the car first. And this type of
         | story keeps on happening (like the car in Washington state a
         | few years ago where the only person who died wandered away from
         | their car), to the extent there's a real lesson to stay still.
        
           | ipsi wrote:
           | > I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the
           | car not have bought them enough time?
           | 
           | Considering they went missing in June/July, and the car
           | wasn't found until October, I think that's unlikely.
           | 
           | As a general rule, absolutely, but in this case it wouldn't
           | have been enough on its own.
        
           | evan_ wrote:
           | The car wasn't found for three months, so probably not.
        
         | dddddaviddddd wrote:
         | In 1996, I'm not sure what their options would have been, but
         | today a Personal Locator Beacon or some other satellite
         | communication system is good to have if you're in a remote
         | place with no cell reception.
        
         | linksnapzz wrote:
         | I think that's actually the recommended course of action, if
         | you're stuck somewhere remote, especially in the snow. Light
         | the spare tire on fire-tire smoke is very dark & thick, and can
         | been seen for miles in the daytime.
        
           | whartung wrote:
           | I guess I need to search the YouTubes for "Survival
           | techniques to light your car tire on fire." I honestly don't
           | think I have anything in my car, this second, that could do
           | that. How much heat does a tire need to light up? Is one of
           | those mini-spares enough tire to make a good signal?
           | 
           | Its easy (well easier) with motorcycles, as you can readily
           | get fuel out of the tank, assuming you have some fire source.
           | But for a car? Not sure.
           | 
           | Mind, for this specific case, you have to appreciate that
           | these folks were rather far from the beaten path. They were
           | certainly far away from the local ranger stations and what
           | not. Ideally someone may have seen it and reported it, but I
           | wouldn't necessarily guarantee it. They were in a pretty
           | large valley where this happened.
           | 
           | And, as an anecdote, my friends and I were stuck near there
           | for 3 days one year. But it was in the mud, in the nearby dry
           | ("dry") lake, and we were near a road. Never in any danger.
           | But it was a fun extraction.
        
             | sonofhans wrote:
             | I bet a road flare would do it. It's always useful to carry
             | a pack of those.
        
           | tstrimple wrote:
           | Yes. Use the spare tire, not the car. The car may be your
           | only source of shade or shelter overnight.
        
         | nivenkos wrote:
         | The cabin they passed on the way there wasn't that far compared
         | to how far they got in the end, the best option would likely
         | have been to take what they had from the car and stay there.
         | And try to set a tyre alight as a signal for help.
         | 
         | That said, since it seems there wasn't much investigation until
         | the car sighting in October, it's unlikely even that would have
         | been enough.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | Been awhile since I read the story, but for starters you don't
         | drive your rental minivan into the unpaved desert wilderness,
         | which IIRC is what they did.
         | 
         | If you're simply stuck in an otherwise functioning vehicle, in
         | something easily digged like sand... just get unstuck and go
         | back from where you came. You can use the carpets/floor mats
         | from within the vehicle if needed to get yourself out of sand
         | in a pinch. It's just a matter of getting dirty and manual
         | labor. I get stuck in desert sand pretty regularly, and only
         | abandon the vehicle that got me into the isolated mess as a
         | last resort, i.e. if it's irreparably broken or totally out of
         | fuel.
         | 
         | An automobile can very easily deliver its occupants to fatal-
         | as-pedestrian situations. As a former mechanic and gearhead,
         | I'd strongly recommend becoming mechanically inclined and able
         | to improvise repairs on your vehicle if you intend to do such
         | things. And select the vehicle such as to maximize success on
         | that front.
        
           | timerol wrote:
           | Note that both of their rear tires were flat, which
           | complicates things
        
           | cameldrv wrote:
           | Supposedly the van had 3 flat tires. That said, it also had
           | an unused spare tire. It certainly would have been worth
           | trying to get two good tires on the front and try to keep
           | moving.
           | 
           | The more fundamental problem I suspect is that they may not
           | have been thinking clearly given all of the empty alcohol
           | bottles that were found. In the van, there was an empty
           | bottle of beer and an an empty bottle of Bourbon. There was
           | another beer bottle 2 miles from the car. Near their remains
           | were found, there was an empty 2 liter bottle of wine and
           | another empty bottle of beer.
        
         | cameldrv wrote:
         | In hindsight, their best bet might have been to walk back to
         | the Geologist's Cabin and wait for someone to come along.
         | Supposedly it's usually stocked with some food and water, and
         | there's a spring right next to it.
         | 
         | It would have been about a 4 mile walk with an elevation gain
         | of about 1000 feet. Admittedly not easy with little kids, but
         | they ultimately did make it 8 miles in the other direction.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Once the car got stuck they were in a bad spot - nobody knew
         | they were out there so nobody was looking for them. It's
         | remotely possible that hiking back out the way they came in
         | would have done something, but the most likely thing would have
         | been to start as dirty a smoke fire as they could _during the
         | day_ - and hope that a passing plane reported it.
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | The other thing to do is form SOS with rocks or stamp it in the
         | snow or whatever, so people can see it from the air.
        
       | mvexel wrote:
       | I read this after seeing a previous link to it on HN. One of the
       | most haunting tales of folks getting lost in remote places[1]. I
       | live in the West and love to explore remote places. But being
       | from Western Europe originally, it took me a while to fully
       | appreciate what "remote" means. You're dozens of miles away from
       | water, cell service, human settlement. You're on your own. Be
       | prepared. Bring an InReach and know how to use it. (Or, these
       | days, an iPhone, if you can accept the limitations.)
       | 
       | [1] Another haunting one is the Chretiens in 2011
       | https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/seven-...
        
         | 8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote:
         | I don't remember appreciating how barren and distant a place
         | can be until I drove from Vegas to Death Valley, seeing
         | absolutely nothing but grey soil and dust around me for hours,
         | no hints of civilization outside of a dingy gas station once in
         | a blue moon.
         | 
         | Whenever people say "we're running out of room on this Earth" I
         | encourage them to pick any of the less populated states in the
         | US and just drive down a highway away from a city.
         | 
         | I'm sure you can have an even more surreal experience of the
         | sort in any former USSR state or China, given their size.
        
           | mlyle wrote:
           | > Whenever people say "we're running out of room on this
           | Earth" I encourage them to pick any of the less populated
           | states in the US and just drive down a highway away from a
           | city.
           | 
           | I don't think many people think we're running out of physical
           | space to house humans... but rather whether we're running out
           | of productive land with ample resources.
        
           | blamazon wrote:
           | > I'm sure you can have an even more surreal experience of
           | the sort in any former USSR state or China, given their size.
           | 
           | Mongolia is great for this, travelers can basically camp
           | wherever they want and the nomadic locals are so friendly.
           | They often invite travelers to stay in their yurts, be fed,
           | and experience what their lives are like. It's so incredibly
           | welcome after days of isolated tent camping, an experience
           | that transcends language barriers.
        
           | LorenPechtel wrote:
           | Areas like Death Valley are empty because of a lack of water.
           | 
           | I sometimes hike out there and often don't see another person
           | all day. Rarely do I see a drop of water, though, even though
           | I'm only there in the "wetter" time.
        
         | heipei wrote:
         | As a German myself I think I can confidently say that most of
         | my country-men don't have the slightest feeling for what
         | "remote" actually means until they have actually been to some
         | of these places outside of Europe. "Remote" to a German might
         | mean that it takes more than 30 minutes to the next highway.
         | "Remote" means that cell reception drops to 3G, or that there's
         | only one gas station in a 20km radius. Lots of folks I knew
         | always talked about going to the outback in Australia as their
         | first major trip abroad, because "it's so remote". It's hard to
         | convince them that there's "remote enough" and "way too
         | remote". I know plenty of places, specifically in Canada and
         | the US, where driving for ~ 60 minutes from a major city will
         | get you somewhere remote enough that you won't spot another
         | soul. This is hard to grasp for us Germans since there's
         | basically no place in the whole country where you're truly by
         | yourself. My two cents.
        
       | robrorcroptrer wrote:
       | I will never forget the feeling of reading this for the first
       | time on my iPad some years ago. It kind of helped me get out of a
       | rut, his grit is inspiring.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | I read this whole thing a few years ago. It's fascinating.
        
       | pvg wrote:
       | some previous threads:
       | 
       | 2020, 75 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417
       | 
       | 2019, 38 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057
       | 
       | 2016, 61 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567
        
         | jtwaleson wrote:
         | I read this here in 2019 I think, and visited Death Valley last
         | October. When we were preparing the drive from Vegas to Mammoth
         | lake, Google Maps would show different routes every day. It
         | turned out the 190 was closed and they were busy working on it,
         | updating the status regularly. After driving for a couple of
         | hours we hit a roadblock and without any cell phone reception
         | we felt really helpless. We gambled a bit and took a narrow
         | winding road towards Telescope Peak (I believe). Then I started
         | thinking about the Germans because the road we were on was not
         | even on my cached Google Maps. I just saw it isn't on the live
         | one either... Luckily we made it just fine and took a 3 hour
         | southern detour past Ridgecrest. We still made it to Willy's
         | Hot Springs near Mammoth lake before nightfall. What a
         | fantastic trip!
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | Can anyone identify the cabin, Anvil Canyon and the other places
       | on Google Maps? Best I can come up with is this route from the
       | cabin to the canyon, but Google says it is 19 miles (versus 4
       | miles in the article):
       | 
       | https://goo.gl/maps/2hBb7Cb2T9oa5ed49
        
         | erentz wrote:
         | Here's a map with many of the locations and routes:
         | 
         | https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1FdGZI6DDRPe3Y9-dtpLG...
        
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