[HN Gopher] The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012)
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The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012)
Author : chha
Score : 61 points
Date : 2023-02-06 11:53 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.otherhand.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.otherhand.org)
| jonah wrote:
| I read this series and some of Mahood's other writings just as I
| was getting into Search and Rescue myself and it was quite
| inspiring.
|
| I've been on a few extended searches and there's a lot of thought
| and research that goes into getting into people's heads to try to
| figure out where they went.
| bombcar wrote:
| The search for Bill Ewasko is the one that really weirds me out:
| https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/search...
| user3939382 wrote:
| I grew up (what I since learned people distinguish as
| "primitive") camping, hiking, in the ocean, etc. Not fear, but
| respect, for the power of nature was ingrained from the time of
| my earliest memories.
|
| It wasn't until I was an adult I realized I was assuming this was
| universal and sadly it's definitely not.
|
| I hear stories like this more often than I'd like and all I can
| do is shake my head. It's just sad and tragic and unnecessary.
| LarryMullins wrote:
| Crazy that you can call a place _Death_ Valley and still have
| people not take it seriously.
| dsfyu404ed wrote:
| The threshold for warning people of danger in modern society is
| so low that people become desensitized.
| panzagl wrote:
| I mean, if you go to Death Valley from the California side
| you've already been told you have, like, a million cancer
| exposures.
| sizzzzlerz wrote:
| people are idiots. every year people die in the park because
| they know better than the rangers and go out when it's 130
| without water or a hat
| basementcat wrote:
| Death Valley can be quite beautiful in the spring, especially
| after a rainy winter.
|
| https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/wildflower-seasons.htm
| nivenkos wrote:
| It's horrible that it seems the parents died before the children
| too. What an awful way to die, but totally understandable that in
| the moment they were more worried about retrieving the rental car
| and making it to LA on time than finding shelter for the long
| haul.
| brazzy wrote:
| Since the first time I read this, I've wondered what they could
| have done to survive once the car got stuck. The only thing I
| came up with is to set fire to the car and hope the smoke would
| get someone to come look.
| metacritic12 wrote:
| I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the car
| not have bought them enough time?
|
| I don't know if the advantage was enough, but basically the
| conclusion was that they found the car first. And this type of
| story keeps on happening (like the car in Washington state a
| few years ago where the only person who died wandered away from
| their car), to the extent there's a real lesson to stay still.
| ipsi wrote:
| > I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the
| car not have bought them enough time?
|
| Considering they went missing in June/July, and the car
| wasn't found until October, I think that's unlikely.
|
| As a general rule, absolutely, but in this case it wouldn't
| have been enough on its own.
| evan_ wrote:
| The car wasn't found for three months, so probably not.
| dddddaviddddd wrote:
| In 1996, I'm not sure what their options would have been, but
| today a Personal Locator Beacon or some other satellite
| communication system is good to have if you're in a remote
| place with no cell reception.
| linksnapzz wrote:
| I think that's actually the recommended course of action, if
| you're stuck somewhere remote, especially in the snow. Light
| the spare tire on fire-tire smoke is very dark & thick, and can
| been seen for miles in the daytime.
| whartung wrote:
| I guess I need to search the YouTubes for "Survival
| techniques to light your car tire on fire." I honestly don't
| think I have anything in my car, this second, that could do
| that. How much heat does a tire need to light up? Is one of
| those mini-spares enough tire to make a good signal?
|
| Its easy (well easier) with motorcycles, as you can readily
| get fuel out of the tank, assuming you have some fire source.
| But for a car? Not sure.
|
| Mind, for this specific case, you have to appreciate that
| these folks were rather far from the beaten path. They were
| certainly far away from the local ranger stations and what
| not. Ideally someone may have seen it and reported it, but I
| wouldn't necessarily guarantee it. They were in a pretty
| large valley where this happened.
|
| And, as an anecdote, my friends and I were stuck near there
| for 3 days one year. But it was in the mud, in the nearby dry
| ("dry") lake, and we were near a road. Never in any danger.
| But it was a fun extraction.
| sonofhans wrote:
| I bet a road flare would do it. It's always useful to carry
| a pack of those.
| tstrimple wrote:
| Yes. Use the spare tire, not the car. The car may be your
| only source of shade or shelter overnight.
| nivenkos wrote:
| The cabin they passed on the way there wasn't that far compared
| to how far they got in the end, the best option would likely
| have been to take what they had from the car and stay there.
| And try to set a tyre alight as a signal for help.
|
| That said, since it seems there wasn't much investigation until
| the car sighting in October, it's unlikely even that would have
| been enough.
| pengaru wrote:
| Been awhile since I read the story, but for starters you don't
| drive your rental minivan into the unpaved desert wilderness,
| which IIRC is what they did.
|
| If you're simply stuck in an otherwise functioning vehicle, in
| something easily digged like sand... just get unstuck and go
| back from where you came. You can use the carpets/floor mats
| from within the vehicle if needed to get yourself out of sand
| in a pinch. It's just a matter of getting dirty and manual
| labor. I get stuck in desert sand pretty regularly, and only
| abandon the vehicle that got me into the isolated mess as a
| last resort, i.e. if it's irreparably broken or totally out of
| fuel.
|
| An automobile can very easily deliver its occupants to fatal-
| as-pedestrian situations. As a former mechanic and gearhead,
| I'd strongly recommend becoming mechanically inclined and able
| to improvise repairs on your vehicle if you intend to do such
| things. And select the vehicle such as to maximize success on
| that front.
| timerol wrote:
| Note that both of their rear tires were flat, which
| complicates things
| cameldrv wrote:
| Supposedly the van had 3 flat tires. That said, it also had
| an unused spare tire. It certainly would have been worth
| trying to get two good tires on the front and try to keep
| moving.
|
| The more fundamental problem I suspect is that they may not
| have been thinking clearly given all of the empty alcohol
| bottles that were found. In the van, there was an empty
| bottle of beer and an an empty bottle of Bourbon. There was
| another beer bottle 2 miles from the car. Near their remains
| were found, there was an empty 2 liter bottle of wine and
| another empty bottle of beer.
| cameldrv wrote:
| In hindsight, their best bet might have been to walk back to
| the Geologist's Cabin and wait for someone to come along.
| Supposedly it's usually stocked with some food and water, and
| there's a spring right next to it.
|
| It would have been about a 4 mile walk with an elevation gain
| of about 1000 feet. Admittedly not easy with little kids, but
| they ultimately did make it 8 miles in the other direction.
| bombcar wrote:
| Once the car got stuck they were in a bad spot - nobody knew
| they were out there so nobody was looking for them. It's
| remotely possible that hiking back out the way they came in
| would have done something, but the most likely thing would have
| been to start as dirty a smoke fire as they could _during the
| day_ - and hope that a passing plane reported it.
| WalterBright wrote:
| The other thing to do is form SOS with rocks or stamp it in the
| snow or whatever, so people can see it from the air.
| mvexel wrote:
| I read this after seeing a previous link to it on HN. One of the
| most haunting tales of folks getting lost in remote places[1]. I
| live in the West and love to explore remote places. But being
| from Western Europe originally, it took me a while to fully
| appreciate what "remote" means. You're dozens of miles away from
| water, cell service, human settlement. You're on your own. Be
| prepared. Bring an InReach and know how to use it. (Or, these
| days, an iPhone, if you can accept the limitations.)
|
| [1] Another haunting one is the Chretiens in 2011
| https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/seven-...
| 8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote:
| I don't remember appreciating how barren and distant a place
| can be until I drove from Vegas to Death Valley, seeing
| absolutely nothing but grey soil and dust around me for hours,
| no hints of civilization outside of a dingy gas station once in
| a blue moon.
|
| Whenever people say "we're running out of room on this Earth" I
| encourage them to pick any of the less populated states in the
| US and just drive down a highway away from a city.
|
| I'm sure you can have an even more surreal experience of the
| sort in any former USSR state or China, given their size.
| mlyle wrote:
| > Whenever people say "we're running out of room on this
| Earth" I encourage them to pick any of the less populated
| states in the US and just drive down a highway away from a
| city.
|
| I don't think many people think we're running out of physical
| space to house humans... but rather whether we're running out
| of productive land with ample resources.
| blamazon wrote:
| > I'm sure you can have an even more surreal experience of
| the sort in any former USSR state or China, given their size.
|
| Mongolia is great for this, travelers can basically camp
| wherever they want and the nomadic locals are so friendly.
| They often invite travelers to stay in their yurts, be fed,
| and experience what their lives are like. It's so incredibly
| welcome after days of isolated tent camping, an experience
| that transcends language barriers.
| LorenPechtel wrote:
| Areas like Death Valley are empty because of a lack of water.
|
| I sometimes hike out there and often don't see another person
| all day. Rarely do I see a drop of water, though, even though
| I'm only there in the "wetter" time.
| heipei wrote:
| As a German myself I think I can confidently say that most of
| my country-men don't have the slightest feeling for what
| "remote" actually means until they have actually been to some
| of these places outside of Europe. "Remote" to a German might
| mean that it takes more than 30 minutes to the next highway.
| "Remote" means that cell reception drops to 3G, or that there's
| only one gas station in a 20km radius. Lots of folks I knew
| always talked about going to the outback in Australia as their
| first major trip abroad, because "it's so remote". It's hard to
| convince them that there's "remote enough" and "way too
| remote". I know plenty of places, specifically in Canada and
| the US, where driving for ~ 60 minutes from a major city will
| get you somewhere remote enough that you won't spot another
| soul. This is hard to grasp for us Germans since there's
| basically no place in the whole country where you're truly by
| yourself. My two cents.
| robrorcroptrer wrote:
| I will never forget the feeling of reading this for the first
| time on my iPad some years ago. It kind of helped me get out of a
| rut, his grit is inspiring.
| [deleted]
| gwbas1c wrote:
| I read this whole thing a few years ago. It's fascinating.
| pvg wrote:
| some previous threads:
|
| 2020, 75 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417
|
| 2019, 38 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057
|
| 2016, 61 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567
| jtwaleson wrote:
| I read this here in 2019 I think, and visited Death Valley last
| October. When we were preparing the drive from Vegas to Mammoth
| lake, Google Maps would show different routes every day. It
| turned out the 190 was closed and they were busy working on it,
| updating the status regularly. After driving for a couple of
| hours we hit a roadblock and without any cell phone reception
| we felt really helpless. We gambled a bit and took a narrow
| winding road towards Telescope Peak (I believe). Then I started
| thinking about the Germans because the road we were on was not
| even on my cached Google Maps. I just saw it isn't on the live
| one either... Luckily we made it just fine and took a 3 hour
| southern detour past Ridgecrest. We still made it to Willy's
| Hot Springs near Mammoth lake before nightfall. What a
| fantastic trip!
| rwmj wrote:
| Can anyone identify the cabin, Anvil Canyon and the other places
| on Google Maps? Best I can come up with is this route from the
| cabin to the canyon, but Google says it is 19 miles (versus 4
| miles in the article):
|
| https://goo.gl/maps/2hBb7Cb2T9oa5ed49
| erentz wrote:
| Here's a map with many of the locations and routes:
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1FdGZI6DDRPe3Y9-dtpLG...
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