[HN Gopher] Everything You Can't Have
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Everything You Can't Have
        
       Author : toto444
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2023-02-04 10:07 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (collabfund.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (collabfund.com)
        
       | kstenerud wrote:
       | > A few years after leaving office, Richard Nixon mentioned that
       | the richest people in the world are some of the unhappiest,
       | because they can afford to never struggle.
       | 
       | Except for those who choose a cause. Bill Gates comes to mind.
       | 
       | > You feel that, gee, isn't it just great to have enough money to
       | afford to live in a very nice house, to be able to play golf, to
       | have nice parties, to wear good clothes, to travel if you want
       | to?
       | 
       | If that's the vacuous extent of your life, the problem doesn't
       | lie with the money.
       | 
       | > Something you can easily afford brings less joy than something
       | you must save and struggle for. "The man who can buy anything he
       | covets values nothing that he buys," Dawson wrote.
       | 
       | Except that it's not true. I was easily able to afford the air
       | fryer that I bought two years ago. Every single time I use it,
       | I'm amazed at how easy it makes preparing certain meals, and I am
       | thankful to the friend who recommended it. Every single thing I
       | buy is carefully thought out (sometimes over months) to improve a
       | specific part of my life. And every single thing I own is valued
       | because it has a specific purpose. Dawson may have thought he'd
       | stumbled upon some great wisdom, but all he was actually doing
       | was looking in a mirror.
       | 
       | > Your brain doesn't want stuff. It doesn't even want new stuff.
       | It wants to engage in the process and anticipation of getting new
       | stuff.
       | 
       | Uhh wuuuuut? That's the most bizarre thing I've ever heard.
       | What's the point in getting "stuff" over and over? You're not
       | going to have any use for it.
       | 
       | > When you get a $10,000 car you dream of the 20,000 car.
       | 
       | Uhh no. I have a $5000 car and have absolutely no desire to buy
       | another one until this one becomes too expensive to fix. I could
       | buy a $50,000 car tomorrow, but what would be the point?
       | 
       | All I'm seeing in this article are confessions of a greedy
       | person.
        
         | prmph wrote:
         | Good comment that matches my experience. I find that if the
         | things I own are well made, and fill reals need or reasonable
         | wants in my life, then I continue to enjoy them to a large
         | extent, even if their novelty wears of. And this is true
         | whether they were gifted to me or I struggled for them.
         | 
         | > Your brain doesn't want stuff. It doesn't even want new
         | stuff. It wants to engage in the process and anticipation of
         | getting new stuff.
         | 
         | On the contrary, I find myself avoiding hedonistic consumption
         | more and more as the years go by. I scrutinize planned
         | purchases for months, even if I can easily afford them, and I
         | do wish the the world was less of a place where the solution to
         | every problem seems to be to purchase something.
        
       | blfr wrote:
       | I cannot relate to joy of struggle for owning things. Maybe the
       | times have changed and often more expensive things just aren't
       | better (although nicer things still are usually more expensive)
       | but while I feel a lot of pleasure from wearing proper clothes,
       | using well-made tech, and living in a stylishly designed
       | apartment, looking for them is almost always a chore I happily
       | outsource to bloggers, HN (thank you!), or my girlfriend. With
       | the one exception of ordering custom tailored clothes which feels
       | like research.
        
         | alexfromapex wrote:
         | Yeah I think this is just another lie told by Capitalism to
         | keep people satiated. Anyone who doesn't feel fulfillment with
         | unlimited supplies of money just doesn't know themselves very
         | well.
        
           | cscurmudgeon wrote:
           | Where exactly is this lie told and exactly who told it?
        
             | riskpreneurship wrote:
             | My grandparents and parents used to spout idioms like,
             | "hard work is its own reward" as if they were inalienable
             | truths.
             | 
             | IMO it's baked in at a cultural level, at this point. Where
             | did it come from? You could point to the harsh Puritan work
             | ethic, or the myth of meritocracy, or the rivers of blood
             | lurking in the US' past, but there's probably no single
             | root cause.
        
               | cscurmudgeon wrote:
               | > My grandparents and parents used to spout idioms like,
               | "hard work is its own reward" as if they were inalienable
               | truths.
               | 
               | Are you grandparents representatives of capitalism?
               | 
               | I am sure if you go to the most socialist or communist
               | country out there, you will find grandparents saying the
               | same thing. Source: me, I come from one such country.
        
       | throwaway98797 wrote:
       | step one: think for yourself
       | 
       | step two: fail at step one
       | 
       | step three: devote your life to step one
        
       | thesausageking wrote:
       | Why do VCs write these kinds of generic, life advice columns?
        
         | jehb wrote:
         | _Why did you write this comment?_
         | 
         | My intent in asking isn't just to be dismissive, but rather to
         | point out that there are complex, overlapping reasons. It can
         | be incredibly difficult to even pinpoint your own motivations,
         | to say nothing of those of others.
         | 
         | A simplistic answer might be "because they want to have their
         | thoughts read by others." Beyond that could be altruism, a
         | desire for notoriety, wanting to change behavior, or many other
         | intermingled goals. Most likely, the author didn't even
         | consider "why" but rather, like all of us, just felt an
         | intrinsic need to be heard. See also: social media.
        
         | lo_zamoyski wrote:
         | For the same reason some scientists make silly philosophical
         | remarks: ultracrepidarianism[0].
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutor,_ne_ultra_crepidam
        
           | cushychicken wrote:
           | Seems a bit harsh.
           | 
           | Everyone has a lived existence.
           | 
           | Everyone is trying to optimize their lived experience.
           | 
           | Are you saying a person's occupation should preclude them
           | from asking "What's the right way for me to live?"
        
         | dougSF70 wrote:
         | Surely if anyone is guilty of the dopamine rush of wanting the
         | new thing its VCs...in that case perhaps this VC is giving
         | himself advice in public.
        
           | thesausageking wrote:
           | That would explain a ton of VC blog posts.
        
             | dougSF70 wrote:
             | I should imagine the daily life of being a VC is pretty
             | mundane, with the occassional burst of activity...smart
             | people need an outlet so why not write that blog, make that
             | podcast, go to Barry's Bootcamp.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | Because they go viral, like here. Lots of clicks. Even though
         | the comments here seem quite critical, these articles seem to
         | do well.
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | Invest money, take the satisfaction of investing in others and
       | seeing them grow it, and reward people who invest their time to
       | produce the things that really do take time, but don't confuse
       | the symbols and their artifacts with the real.
       | 
       | My hack around this was to recognize the only things that were
       | valuable cost time. Fast way to do that was by recognizing the
       | difference between the symbol or representation of something, and
       | its real effect. As a symbol, money makes it it really easy to
       | acquire other symbols, but that's all they are. Instead, get good
       | at something, and even use some money to make opportunity (buy
       | the time, your own or someone elses) to do it, but the more money
       | you spend on them the less satisfying they are. An example is
       | buying an expensive instrument to take beginner lessons, where
       | learning on one can be so unsatisfying and humiliating relative
       | to its symbolic value as to discourage you from pursuing it. The
       | basic absurdity of culture is the belief that if you consume
       | enough symbols of desire you eventually become one - and also
       | perhaps that it is for the lack of those symbols that you are not
       | normal or desirable. Symbols certainly help us negotiate the
       | culture around us, but they are not the substrate or the real.
       | 
       | A quant once told me that the ideal portfolio lets you both eat
       | well and sleep well, but they come at a cost to each other, so
       | good luck with managing, i.e. extracting value from - money. It's
       | not a problem I have, or one that I particularly envy because I
       | mainly value time, and index on sleeping well over eating well.
        
       | jemmyw wrote:
       | I thought about this exact thing after the only time in my life
       | so far I was in a position to get a brand new car. The research
       | up to it was a lot more fun than actually having it.
       | 
       | I've run with this since, perhaps a little more than is healthy.
       | Want something new: research aggressively but actually back out
       | of ever buying. Our car (not the new one, that was a different
       | country years ago) is getting to the point of needing more work
       | than it's value, so I've been looking at new ones, taking test
       | drives etc. But we won't buy any of those, we'll buy something
       | used and quite old.
       | 
       | It might sound ok, I've got it solved and get that dopamine hit
       | without consequence, but it's a huge waste of my time and it
       | affects pretty much every purchase decision.
        
         | kristianp wrote:
         | I've recently enjoyed researching a new laptop purchase, even
         | went so far as some web scraping. Getting the actual machine
         | should be enjoyable too, but a let down because it means the
         | end of reading about new hardware with such delicious intent.
        
       | toto444 wrote:
       | I have found that instead of wanting things I don't own, wanting
       | to see created things I haven't created yet very liberating.
       | 
       | Since it makes my goals very personal, I can't compare myself on
       | an objective metric with other people and as a result feel less
       | frustrated about not earning more.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | How do you trick your brain into this? How do you ignore
         | friends who buy a new car every year?
        
           | drbig wrote:
           | > How do you ignore friends who buy a new car every year?
           | 
           | No need to ignore anything. Instead realize that everyone on
           | this planet has exactly the same amount of hours in a day -
           | the poorest and the richest alike. With that understood
           | realize that you can only spend your time on so _few_ things
           | that you better choose what's really important to you.
           | 
           | And thus one may choose to spend time on projects and making
           | stuff, and "friends who buy a new car every year" are simply
           | people that chose differently - there is little point to
           | ordering the choices (or conversely you can always design a
           | metric by which any given choice will be strictly superior to
           | others - thus making such orderings generally pointless).
           | 
           | And in terms of money and even its power to buy time - it's
           | all diminishing results surprisingly quickly. And if you like
           | cars then indeed switching every year sounds like a much
           | better strategy than owning many at the same time.
           | 
           | To each their own. Would be extremely dull otherwise!
        
           | barelyauser wrote:
           | > How do you ignore friends who buy a new car every year?
           | 
           | The fact you notice and thinks about it means you care. You
           | want a new car every year. You envy it. Be honest to yourself
           | and go get it. That is what you want.
        
           | tmshu1 wrote:
           | What stops you from just ignoring them?
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Are you suggesting to ignore friends/family? What if they
             | offer you a car ride, and start bragging about their car?
             | Not just once, but over and over. And they have a Bentley,
             | and you have a second hand Toyota? How are serious mind
             | tricks not necessary here to keep your sanity?
        
               | mantas wrote:
               | What's the problem? Tell the truth that it is indeed a
               | nice car.
               | 
               | If you have sanity issues because you ain't driving the
               | nicest car in town... Maybe that's the core issue? Why do
               | you place so much importance on having the nicest car?
               | Vast majority of people do not give a damn what others
               | drive/wear/whatever.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | The Bentley is a nice car. The problem is that, unless
               | you are a Tibetan monk, it will make your Toyota look
               | less nice.
        
               | mantas wrote:
               | And Bugatti would make Bentley a not-so-nice car. But
               | once you go off tarmac for your forest cabin, both cars
               | will suck. You may enjoy your 2nd hand toyota, especially
               | if it's rav4, much more...
               | 
               | All in all the only way to win this game is to not play.
        
           | BizarreByte wrote:
           | Some of us don't have to trick ourselves. I own a modest
           | house and modest car, they fit into my budget and put me so
           | far ahead of my peers financially people don't believe me
           | when I say how good things are.
           | 
           | A car especially is just a tool, I care as much about
           | someone's car as I do the hammer in their toolbox, but I am
           | not a car person.
           | 
           | It comes down to what you value. Stability, time, and
           | financial freedom matter more to me than any fancy thing I
           | could buy.
        
             | etothepii wrote:
             | The ultimate luxuries are time and freedom. I'm _jealous_
             | of those with more of these but not those with a bigger
             | house or car.
        
               | BizarreByte wrote:
               | > The ultimate luxuries are time and freedom.
               | 
               | They definitely are, which is why I forego things that
               | take them away from me. No children or dogs in my future.
        
           | petercooper wrote:
           | I think it depends on what the car represents to you. Are you
           | truly _into cars_ or are you into the _status_ conferred by
           | owning a new car?
           | 
           | If you're genuinely into cars and driving, you might well
           | indulge in buying nice cars and find it emotionally
           | fulfilling. If it's about status, however, you can probably
           | find more fulfilling ways to attain status that doesn't
           | involve purchasing a trinket you don't truly want or need -
           | perhaps by becoming known in the local area as a
           | donor/philanthropist, having the best garden on the street,
           | involvement in local politics or sports teams, being in a
           | band, becoming a busybody on the PTA, and such things. (I
           | admit these things all sound a bit suburban but that's my
           | frame of reference.)
        
           | toto444 wrote:
           | I can ask you the same question :
           | 
           | How do you ignore friends who write a new book every year?
        
           | 0wis wrote:
           | Personally, I have some tricks that seem to help. I force
           | myself to come up with at least 3 things I am grateful for as
           | part of my daily journaling. I started this some years ago
           | and it really help to change your focus towards enjoying
           | everything you already have access in modern society. Plus,
           | learning about personal finance, investing and compounding
           | made me think twice before spending. I end up valuing more
           | financial freedom than incremental comfort/status upgrade.
        
           | ericmcer wrote:
           | I don't ignore them I usually view them as someone whose
           | priorities don't align with mine.
           | 
           | Money is freedom and trading that freedom to get a shiny toy
           | doesn't make sense to me. I would much rather know I can work
           | on what I want or not work at all than drive to my job in a
           | nicer car.
        
             | hef19898 wrote:
             | The most valuable thing money buys you is first security,
             | directly followed by freedom. I would never trade that
             | freedom in for some shiny toy, or trinket. Or something to
             | impress other people with. If it is something I truely
             | enjoy, and can afford comfortably sure. But then is much
             | more about the experience than it is about the _thing_.
             | 
             | And if people judge you as person based on the car you
             | have, the clothes you wear or the appartment / house you
             | live in, well, maybe ignoring those people actually is a
             | healthy thing to do.
        
           | antisceptic wrote:
           | I'd imagine a healthier version of something like:
           | "Simpletons, relying on consumerism for their dopamine rush,
           | they're no different from ants! Meanwhile I am a /creator/ of
           | things!"
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | You can't hide in that idea because back in the real world,
             | your friends receive all the love and admiration for owning
             | great things (something like status), while you get a tap
             | on the shoulder.
        
               | speedgoose wrote:
               | We may live in different worlds. I don't know anyone who
               | buys a new car every year and if one starts to do so I
               | will feel sorry about their poor financial judgment.
        
               | tmshu1 wrote:
               | Do you actually want love and admiration? What if
               | magically, you got the same love and admiration tomorrow?
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | Not "the real world" but rather your perception of the
               | world. "The real world" implies that it's the same thing
               | you describe for everyone. It is definitely bot.
        
             | toto444 wrote:
             | I'd say my version does not include comparison to others. I
             | actually wish more people try their best to create great
             | things even if what their creations are much better than
             | mine.
             | 
             | My version would be more like :
             | 
             | "Owning a car is very circumstantial. It means you
             | temporarily have some property right on it. It can break,
             | it can be taken away from you. If you create something it's
             | yours forever. Its existence is not independant of your
             | will.".
             | 
             | At the end of their lives some people will have owned ten
             | cars, others will have written ten books.
        
         | tmshu1 wrote:
         | Same. For me, the creational mindset led to a sense of freedom
         | and excitement that the problem-solving mindset can never get
         | close to.
         | 
         | Problem-solving mindset: what problem do I need to solve?
         | "Problems" will always arise life (due to other people, random
         | events, our brain always wanting novelty, etc.), so this
         | mindset is a reactive one that leads to anxiety and lack of
         | direction.
         | 
         | Creational mindset: what would I _love_ to create? This mindset
         | can seem harder to get at because of all the conditioning we've
         | gotten from society and childhood. But all it takes is a simple
         | perspective shift. It leads to more proactivity, and trust that
         | you'll be able to do whatever you need to do. All the
         | secondary, tertiary, etc. questions about _how_ get answered
         | relatively easily when you're clear about _what_ you want to
         | create.
        
       | leach wrote:
       | I think people need to seek what is fulfilling for them, not what
       | just necessarily makes them happy .
        
       | pdimitar wrote:
       | Rich people getting bored and unhappy is 200% on them and them
       | only. I know of no less than 7 separate things I'd lose myself
       | into -- all related to inventing stuff -- that I actually would
       | be afraid if I'll be giving my wife enough attention. That's how
       | active I would be if I didn't have to worry about a job and a
       | salary.
       | 
       | I know other people like myself as well, some more obsessed and
       | downright hyperactive even.
       | 
       | People lose themselves in material items and status. I want to
       | buy stuff so I waste less time on things I don't enjoy -- washing
       | machine is the perfect example. I want computers because I can
       | program my ideas. I want an electronic workshop corner because I
       | want to get into that and experiment. I want an air fryer because
       | I have high cholesterol and want to experiment with healthier
       | cooking. Many other good and valid examples exist.
       | 
       | Don't lose yourself in material items. Status does not exist.
       | Decouple your money-making scheme from other people perceiving
       | you as having "status". Important thing is for the number in the
       | bank to keep increasing, everything else is a distraction. As
       | long as you're not harming people, kidnapping kids or raping
       | anyone then by all means, go crazy getting rich by doing legal
       | stuff.
       | 
       | My observation from the 8 rich people I knew in my life is: they
       | got lucky, they succeeded too quickly, they have ZERO direction
       | in life, they have no clue what to do with their free time. They
       | got miserable not even 2 years into it.
       | 
       | To me they are weak and uninteresting people whose only
       | impressive trait is that ONCE in their lifetime they managed to
       | combine two and two together and called somebody at the right
       | time (and these opportunities were more often than not created
       | for them; they didn't initiate them).
       | 
       | But of course, "pull the ladder after yourself" and all, we know
       | it. They are weak and uninteresting but they don't want
       | competition and they have the tools in their hands to ensure
       | that's the case.
       | 
       | It is how it is apparently. I'll fight to become rich as much as
       | my personal limitations allow me and I am likely to fail but at
       | least I won't ever complain about "having too much" or "the
       | moment you have it it's no longer wanted".
       | 
       | Meh. Get some imagination!
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       |  _Oh, and that article sounds like paid propaganda: "you actually
       | don't want what you think you want, be happy with what you have".
       | Oh yeah? Well I'll be happy if I work 20h a month for the same
       | money as now. And healthier. I can't. Then bugger off because
       | your article does not help with anything._
        
         | zackmorris wrote:
         | The one thing I can't have is rest. I have approximations of
         | rest: coping, procrastinating, dissociating. But the fantasy of
         | achieving rest is something that I've had to let go of, like
         | Sisyphus.
         | 
         | After multiple boom-bust cycles and returning to the land of
         | the living after burnout, I feel that the world's problems are
         | caused by people who have too much either being unwilling or
         | unable to empathize with the struggle of others.
         | 
         | It's not that I'm jealous of the rich. In fact, I have no real
         | use for money other than to get left alone.
         | 
         | And it's not that I'm lazy. In fact, my education, experience
         | and work capacity allow me to take on high workloads.
         | 
         | No, the central crisis for me is that my standard of living
         | depends on taking from others. If I want to eat well,
         | wilderness has to be cleared, someone has to pick the food,
         | animals will die. If I want to live well, trees have to get cut
         | down, fossil fuels have to be extracted, people will die mining
         | and refining minerals. All that I do, all that I am, places
         | additional burden on someone else.
         | 
         | So I've decided to live modestly, working just enough to keep a
         | roof over my head and drive a vehicle so that I can meet the
         | minimum demands of civilization. If I could, I would give it
         | all back and live in a state of ultimate gratitude and peace.
         | 
         | But the wealthy don't do that. They just keep taking more and
         | more and more, giving little or nothing back. Reaching a
         | position of power only to deny it to someone else. Perhaps the
         | ultimate sin besides taking another's life.
         | 
         | Profit means that someone didn't pay high enough wages.
         | Inheritance means that resources were stolen from one
         | generation for the next. Philanthropy means that someone didn't
         | pay their taxes, so we had to.
         | 
         | Once you've hit rock bottom and see through the veil of
         | illusion, wealth accumulation becomes a repugnant thing. The
         | thing separating one from the divine. The thing that
         | perpetuates the suffering we were born into.
         | 
         | The eerie part is, for all that I've experienced and learned, I
         | know that this analysis of the status quo is not the final
         | answer. I have not really had an epiphany. We all arrived here
         | to incarnate as humans and experience the full gamut of
         | suffering and bliss. We have philosophies and religious
         | traditions glorifying suffering, even calling it noble and
         | pious.
         | 
         | But I've struggled for so long that it's all I have really
         | known, to the point where I've lost sight of how to improve my
         | situation. But what about the people who have achieved success,
         | who do have the means to make things better? Where are the
         | wealthy people who demand shorter work hours, more automation
         | and time off, more shared prosperity and even UBI? Surely there
         | is at least one willing and able to speak out and step up.
        
         | lexapro wrote:
         | >I know of no less than 7 separate things I'd lose myself into
         | 
         | Consider yourself lucky then. Privileged even. Money is not the
         | only privilege there is.
        
           | pdimitar wrote:
           | In this case it's bittersweet, sadly. Can never muster the
           | time or energy to devote myself to them because working for
           | the man is way too tiring but also inescapable...
           | 
           | And yep I'm grateful that I have a curious nature.
        
         | plastic3169 wrote:
         | You are right it's 100% on them to sort their life out. Like
         | your 8 acquaintances I think most people are very unsuited for
         | riches atleast until they adjust. Also almost all people think
         | they themselves would be great managing that situation. It's
         | like imagining you will be great parent before you have kids.
         | Or the famous quote, Everybody has a plan before they get
         | punched in the mouth.
         | 
         | Life change like that affects your whole life from there on
         | 24/7. In a way you cannot actively decide how you will act. You
         | will probably fall back to your inner default way of reacting
         | to things, but your life is subtly changed.
         | 
         | The things that were great passions when you always lacked time
         | to properly get in to them might turn out to be just another
         | job when you start doing them more. Holiday trip might mean
         | nothing if your not having a break from anything. Ventures in
         | easy mode without risk might feel stale. All consumption is
         | pointless anyway. Maybe all tinkering is as well? Etc.
        
           | pdimitar wrote:
           | Getting a vacation when you have no job indeed sounds funny
           | and meaningless, yes, but we also need a change of scenery
           | every now and then, regardless of our level of wealth. It's a
           | basic and universal human trait.
           | 
           | And maybe I'll get tired of the tinkering I want to do now
           | (but can't). I'd still like to find out if that's the case.
           | 
           | There are creative pursuits that can take a lifetime however.
           | Eventually you will find and choose what to consume you.
           | 
           | My main point is that there is a subset of humans who can
           | never be bored. And it seems that it has no intersection with
           | rich people. If that's indeed true (which I doubt; the world
           | is not so black and white) it would be interesting to find
           | out why.
           | 
           | In the end, we all need meaning and some struggle. Shame that
           | most rich people choose to struggle over petty stuff like who
           | has the most expensive watch or who will sleep with the
           | youngest legal boy/girl on that party, or whatever else that
           | signals status.
           | 
           | Shame on them that not even one of them tried to become
           | Ironman or Batman.
        
             | plastic3169 wrote:
             | Here's hoping we make it to the otherside and can reflect
             | back to this with experience.
             | 
             | TBH I'm sure there are people who have no trouble with
             | these things. It is just common to read experiences from
             | rich and famous in which they say that it is actually quite
             | tricky to live that life (sandwhiched between the
             | obligatory platitudes about how lucky and priviledged they
             | are)
        
       | mmmuhd wrote:
       | The author clearly has no experience of poverty, when you are
       | poor, really poor, you have nothing to eat, you must go out to
       | try to find something to eat, and finding the thing to eat is not
       | assured, you'll know that owning things is the last thing on your
       | mind, no matter what you come to be in life later, you'll live in
       | constant fear of going back to poverty.
        
       | rippercushions wrote:
       | Spend money on experiences, not things: shows, concerts, meals,
       | travel. Rarely if ever have I regretted spending money on one,
       | and nobody can take them away from you later.
        
         | BizarreByte wrote:
         | My memory sure can, stuff a decade ago might of well have not
         | happened for all I can remember. I remember the basic stuff,
         | but none of the details.
         | 
         | Anyway I'll add to this that you don't have to like all
         | experiences. I have tried to force myself to like travelling,
         | but I've come to accept I just despise every aspect of it.
         | Other people find it weird, but whatever.
        
           | keymon-o wrote:
           | Same. I had plenty of so-called life worthy experiences, and
           | nothing would make recommend that lifestyle to someone.
           | 
           | To be happy or at least satisfied and content, it takes a lot
           | of introspection and creativity on how to pursue what you
           | really want, which is also rarely in a permanent state. This
           | is often overlooked in favor of taking oversimplified life
           | advices and time consuming setting of life goals
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | jpttsn wrote:
         | This approach never worked well for me. Food and travel is so
         | forgettable; it perishes much faster than nice clothes or shiny
         | toys.
         | 
         | It also seems like people chase the dragon; keep going to
         | restaurants and resorts. If experiences are so unforgettable,
         | why would you repeat them each year?
         | 
         | And for most people it (for the outside) looks fraught with
         | stupid dysfunction; the White Lotus kinds of things where
         | everyone is just struggling to make it worth what they believe
         | it is, and strain their relationships and lives in the process.
        
           | hef19898 wrote:
           | A resort is a vacation, travel is giong on a safari in
           | African, trekking around the Khailash in Tibet, do a road
           | trip through Uruguay. A resort doesn't give you experiences
           | worth remembering, truely travelling and getting to know new
           | cultures and regions does.
        
             | lemongrasstea wrote:
             | Depends. There is nothing intrinsically valuable in
             | memories about sweating on an uncomfortable trip in Uruguay
             | or a memory of being authentically harassed on the streets
             | of Mumbai. (These are examples from my authentic trips).
             | These fade away as everything else.
             | 
             | Simple resort stay in Greece with my SO is embedded in my
             | memory forever.
        
               | wincy wrote:
               | I guess maybe the people trashing on resorts just had a
               | better upbringing than me. Lazing next to the gently
               | lapping ocean in a salt water pool and chatting with my
               | wife while my small children splash around happily in the
               | 82degF weather while it was snowing at our home was so
               | great we decided to stay an extra day. It's certainly
               | like no experience I'm accustomed to. If it gets boring
               | we'll do something else.
        
         | skeeter2020 wrote:
         | I mostly agree, but sometimes the THING (and the act of
         | acquisition) is the experience. Example: I really like coffee
         | table books. Reading them is enjoyable but finding them, seeing
         | them and just owning them also makes me happy.
         | 
         | I also think you should go farther than just the experience
         | component and pair it with physical objects that keep the
         | memories alive, vibrant and reliveable.
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | Maybe I just have a shitty memory, but time has effectively
         | taken those away without anyone's help.
        
           | grugagag wrote:
           | It's all still part of who you are now. If you're unhappy
           | with yourself then maybe it was a waste.
        
         | mantas wrote:
         | Frequently the thing is a proxy to experiences. E.g. a bicycle,
         | kitchen utensils, a plot of land to grow a garden in, music
         | instruments... You get the idea.
         | 
         | Meanwhile many ,,experiences" is just staring at others or
         | consuming prepared products. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to
         | find out what other people did. But making/doing stuff yourself
         | is much more rewardable in the long run. On top of that, we've
         | to provide experiences to people around us as well. Not just
         | consume experiences provided by others.
        
       | lo_zamoyski wrote:
       | This article reads like something from a conversation you might
       | have with an overconfident plumber who had just read an article
       | in "Popular Science". Or someone who lives by IFL Science. Or TED
       | Talks.
       | 
       | Maybe the author should read some old philosophy.
       | 
       | Another way to interpret what's going on is that people often
       | look for happiness in all the wrong places, or confuse pleasure
       | with happiness. In this case, the author is describing people who
       | believe acquisition leads to happiness. He is describing the
       | thrill of the hunt, that anticipation of a reward that isn't
       | there, followed by disappointment because some nebulous misplaced
       | expectation isn't met.
       | 
       | Happiness begins with virtue.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | lazyeye wrote:
       | https://reddit.com/r/fatfire
        
         | kristianp wrote:
         | I thought this would be something about burning the fat
         | capitalist pigs.
        
       | borroka wrote:
       | This is a misleading article that, with its mundane look at the
       | world, tries to provide a "gotcha" that does not seem to exist
       | except in the minds of someone who tries to find "gotchas"
       | everywhere, as the author does.
       | 
       | Do you want a new and better car? Actually, you don't want a
       | Ferrari, you want dopamine. Do you feel attracted to someone
       | younger, better looking, funnier, more interesting than your
       | current partner? This is a trap. Well, I would love to have a
       | Ferrari and I would love to be in the company of the best partner
       | I can find. Call me a dopamine addict if you want.
       | 
       | Although my experience is not necessarily generalizable, it may
       | offer the perspective of someone who, through working in the tech
       | industry, has gone from having little to having more. Having
       | better things makes life more interesting, bigger, and reduces
       | the likelihood of having annoying problems. On average, mind you,
       | and that is how we should look at people's behavior (we should
       | also look at variance, but that would require a longer
       | commentary).
       | 
       | We have all experienced the Gatsby syndrome, either personally or
       | through other people. Having everything we want except one thing
       | we obsessively desire, perhaps a woman or a man, a full head of
       | hair, a few inches, the genuine appreciation of others, fewer
       | years on our shoulders. It is the limiting factor of a chemical
       | reaction. Does this make the possession of things irrelevant? No,
       | it just tells us that they are bottlenecks, limiting factors,
       | that can keep us from enjoying the material or the easy. But if
       | you get rid of the obsession, you will find, as I did, that a
       | 5-star hotel is better than a 2-star hotel, natural fabrics
       | better than polyester, first class better than knees touching
       | ears in economy, a Ferrari better than a 25-year-old Ford. Just
       | lived experience.
        
         | joffrywinslow wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | scns wrote:
         | Money won't provide happiness, but it is more fun to cry in a
         | cab than in the subway.
        
           | borroka wrote:
           | Most (all?) of these topics need to be approached in terms of
           | probabilities, not absolutes. More money makes it more likely
           | to be happier, enjoy life more, or have fewer insurmountable
           | problems. It is a truism.
           | 
           | Now, after how much money we reach a plateau for the outcome
           | being considered (happiness, the best care in case of
           | illness, sending children to the best colleges, traveling the
           | world in 80 days), whether there are trade-offs between the
           | money obtained and the ways of obtaining the money are
           | examples of topics that may be more interesting, and they are
           | all context-dependent. But if someone wants to give me money
           | as a gift and makes me choose between $10 million and $50
           | million, I choose $50 million. And I might have the temerity
           | to ask if there is by any chance also the possibility of
           | getting $100 million.
           | 
           | And it is the same for all positive traits or qualities,
           | which are, in fact, considered positive because they make it
           | more likely to achieve the goal being talked about.
           | 
           | Then we can discuss more interesting matters of trade-offs
           | and let people like the author of the article enjoy a nap
           | instead of offering the usual trivial contentions with his
           | writings.
        
           | dixie_land wrote:
           | I've recently had some misfortunes in the romantic
           | department.
           | 
           | It is objectively a better experience being depressed in my
           | hilltop hot tub over looking acres than the 1bd apartment the
           | 20yr old me had.
        
       | jpttsn wrote:
       | A bunch of other rich people don't know how to enjoy their stuff
       | but you don't have to fall in that trap.
       | 
       | There is a "mindfulness" angle. Instead of taking it always for
       | granted, pay attention and make time enjoy your stuff.
       | 
       | Thoigh if you keep realizing the things you have worked hard for
       | don't end up making you happy, that might be hopeless.
        
         | keymon-o wrote:
         | > There is a "mindfulness" angle. Instead of taking it always
         | for granted, pay attention and make time enjoy your stuff.
         | 
         | Being satisfied with what you have is what "poor" people
         | (people who can't have everything) do in order to be happy.
         | What's the benefit of being rich then?
        
           | nicbou wrote:
           | There is virtue in economy.
           | 
           | - Consuming is usually bad for the environment, even if
           | you're rich. Being satisfied conserves resources.
           | 
           | - The work you devote to something gives it its value. I
           | appreciate good food, good art, good engineering and good
           | woodworking because I have repeatedly attempted them. If you
           | just buy stuff without consideration, you rob yourself of a
           | finer experience.
        
           | hef19898 wrote:
           | More freedom by virtue of having more money? Above a certain
           | level of "enough" money, money becomes less and less
           | important. Or it becomes an obsession, in which case more
           | money takes away freedom. Falling into this trap is tragic if
           | you ask me.
           | 
           | And there will always be sometjing you want but cannot have,
           | regardless how much money have. E.g. art, the Mona Lisa will
           | never be up for sale. Or some other unique piece of art.
           | Accepting that fact makes you a happier person, or at least
           | doesn't hurt.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | > _Being satisfied with what you have is what "poor" people
           | (people who can't have everything) do in order to be happy.
           | What's the benefit of being rich then?_
           | 
           | It's the ability to do what you want with your time, and to
           | (increasingly with more wealth) say fuck you to people who
           | try to force you into this or that.
           | 
           | It's also the increased ability to change things (for you,
           | others, your city, or even your whole country) towards what
           | you want to happen, aka power and influence.
           | 
           | "Being able to buy nice stuff" is the benefit of being rich
           | that poor (or well-offish but still mostly aspiring to
           | greater wealth) people think being rich is about...
        
             | AlbertCory wrote:
             | A phrase there that needs amplifying: here's an un-original
             | quote
             | 
             |  _What the point of having fuck-you money, if you never say
             | 'fuck you'?_
        
             | keymon-o wrote:
             | This is your take on being rich and not at all related to
             | what the article was about, what parent said and the point
             | I was trying to make.
        
           | pdimitar wrote:
           | > _What's the benefit of being rich then?_
           | 
           | Freedom.
           | 
           | Owning better material items is only meant to facilitate
           | freedom. I'm not a collector and never will be, even if I
           | inherit two billion bucks tomorrow.
           | 
           | Examples:
           | 
           | - I'll get an expensive bike so me and my wife can go on an
           | impulsive picnic in the outskirts of the city.
           | 
           | - I'll get an extra house in rural France so we're free to go
           | there if we need the scenery for a few weeks (but will
           | otherwise allow a local family to take care of it).
           | 
           | - I'll just invent stuff in my shed -- or compose the
           | programs I always wanted to write on my computers -- if I'm
           | never worried about money in the future.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | Rich people getting bored and even unhappy is just lack of
           | imagination, intellectual and physical laziness.
           | 
           | Being rich and unhappy is entirely on them. It can be much
           | better in every way but they're too busy complaining about
           | non-issues to see it.
        
             | subpixel wrote:
             | It is on them, but they are legion. That matters, because
             | they influence the direction of our society on many levels.
             | It's not inaccurate to say American culture is a product of
             | a rich and unhappy worldview.
        
               | zdragnar wrote:
               | You need to define American culture, which is no trivial
               | thing. It's like saying "European culture"- just vague
               | generalizations that fit whatever lazy stereotype you
               | prefer
        
               | subpixel wrote:
               | Let's not split hairs.
        
             | keymon-o wrote:
             | You took the question out of the context. Parent expressed
             | that rich people would be happier by enjoying their wealth
             | and changing and controlling what they want and how they
             | enjoy it. That's the same thing 'poor' people can do - be
             | happy by controlling their urges. For all your examples, as
             | a poor guy:
             | 
             | - I can control to enjoy a scenery or a picnic from local
             | park or nearby forest and
             | 
             | - I can control of being worried about the money and doing
             | exactly what I feel like doing (considering it makes me
             | trully happy)
             | 
             | As a rich guy:
             | 
             | - I'd not be sure why I should pedal and sit on a muddy
             | grass instead of renting Hummer and going to some fine
             | dining restaurant
             | 
             | - I'd not be sure should I be wasting my time having all
             | this money when I could be treating myself with X and Y
             | 
             | Once again, what's the benefit if I need to take a mental
             | and physical effort in order to be happy? Your last two
             | paragraphs are the exact thing I am talking about, and can
             | be applied to non-rich people as well.
        
           | xtiansimon wrote:
           | "Being satisfied..." is what you do to not go bananas---to
           | consume for the sake of consuming in a society structured
           | around consumption for the sake of society...
        
       | etothepii wrote:
       | I just don't see the car angle. It's an example people use but I
       | don't see it. Sometimes I wish our car was a bit bigger because
       | it would make our lives easier. Now I'm wealthy enough to buy a
       | car from new, I do. But that's primarily for the hastle factor
       | not the status.
        
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