[HN Gopher] Everything You Can't Have
___________________________________________________________________
Everything You Can't Have
Author : toto444
Score : 78 points
Date : 2023-02-04 10:07 UTC (12 hours ago)
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| kstenerud wrote:
| > A few years after leaving office, Richard Nixon mentioned that
| the richest people in the world are some of the unhappiest,
| because they can afford to never struggle.
|
| Except for those who choose a cause. Bill Gates comes to mind.
|
| > You feel that, gee, isn't it just great to have enough money to
| afford to live in a very nice house, to be able to play golf, to
| have nice parties, to wear good clothes, to travel if you want
| to?
|
| If that's the vacuous extent of your life, the problem doesn't
| lie with the money.
|
| > Something you can easily afford brings less joy than something
| you must save and struggle for. "The man who can buy anything he
| covets values nothing that he buys," Dawson wrote.
|
| Except that it's not true. I was easily able to afford the air
| fryer that I bought two years ago. Every single time I use it,
| I'm amazed at how easy it makes preparing certain meals, and I am
| thankful to the friend who recommended it. Every single thing I
| buy is carefully thought out (sometimes over months) to improve a
| specific part of my life. And every single thing I own is valued
| because it has a specific purpose. Dawson may have thought he'd
| stumbled upon some great wisdom, but all he was actually doing
| was looking in a mirror.
|
| > Your brain doesn't want stuff. It doesn't even want new stuff.
| It wants to engage in the process and anticipation of getting new
| stuff.
|
| Uhh wuuuuut? That's the most bizarre thing I've ever heard.
| What's the point in getting "stuff" over and over? You're not
| going to have any use for it.
|
| > When you get a $10,000 car you dream of the 20,000 car.
|
| Uhh no. I have a $5000 car and have absolutely no desire to buy
| another one until this one becomes too expensive to fix. I could
| buy a $50,000 car tomorrow, but what would be the point?
|
| All I'm seeing in this article are confessions of a greedy
| person.
| prmph wrote:
| Good comment that matches my experience. I find that if the
| things I own are well made, and fill reals need or reasonable
| wants in my life, then I continue to enjoy them to a large
| extent, even if their novelty wears of. And this is true
| whether they were gifted to me or I struggled for them.
|
| > Your brain doesn't want stuff. It doesn't even want new
| stuff. It wants to engage in the process and anticipation of
| getting new stuff.
|
| On the contrary, I find myself avoiding hedonistic consumption
| more and more as the years go by. I scrutinize planned
| purchases for months, even if I can easily afford them, and I
| do wish the the world was less of a place where the solution to
| every problem seems to be to purchase something.
| blfr wrote:
| I cannot relate to joy of struggle for owning things. Maybe the
| times have changed and often more expensive things just aren't
| better (although nicer things still are usually more expensive)
| but while I feel a lot of pleasure from wearing proper clothes,
| using well-made tech, and living in a stylishly designed
| apartment, looking for them is almost always a chore I happily
| outsource to bloggers, HN (thank you!), or my girlfriend. With
| the one exception of ordering custom tailored clothes which feels
| like research.
| alexfromapex wrote:
| Yeah I think this is just another lie told by Capitalism to
| keep people satiated. Anyone who doesn't feel fulfillment with
| unlimited supplies of money just doesn't know themselves very
| well.
| cscurmudgeon wrote:
| Where exactly is this lie told and exactly who told it?
| riskpreneurship wrote:
| My grandparents and parents used to spout idioms like,
| "hard work is its own reward" as if they were inalienable
| truths.
|
| IMO it's baked in at a cultural level, at this point. Where
| did it come from? You could point to the harsh Puritan work
| ethic, or the myth of meritocracy, or the rivers of blood
| lurking in the US' past, but there's probably no single
| root cause.
| cscurmudgeon wrote:
| > My grandparents and parents used to spout idioms like,
| "hard work is its own reward" as if they were inalienable
| truths.
|
| Are you grandparents representatives of capitalism?
|
| I am sure if you go to the most socialist or communist
| country out there, you will find grandparents saying the
| same thing. Source: me, I come from one such country.
| throwaway98797 wrote:
| step one: think for yourself
|
| step two: fail at step one
|
| step three: devote your life to step one
| thesausageking wrote:
| Why do VCs write these kinds of generic, life advice columns?
| jehb wrote:
| _Why did you write this comment?_
|
| My intent in asking isn't just to be dismissive, but rather to
| point out that there are complex, overlapping reasons. It can
| be incredibly difficult to even pinpoint your own motivations,
| to say nothing of those of others.
|
| A simplistic answer might be "because they want to have their
| thoughts read by others." Beyond that could be altruism, a
| desire for notoriety, wanting to change behavior, or many other
| intermingled goals. Most likely, the author didn't even
| consider "why" but rather, like all of us, just felt an
| intrinsic need to be heard. See also: social media.
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| For the same reason some scientists make silly philosophical
| remarks: ultracrepidarianism[0].
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutor,_ne_ultra_crepidam
| cushychicken wrote:
| Seems a bit harsh.
|
| Everyone has a lived existence.
|
| Everyone is trying to optimize their lived experience.
|
| Are you saying a person's occupation should preclude them
| from asking "What's the right way for me to live?"
| dougSF70 wrote:
| Surely if anyone is guilty of the dopamine rush of wanting the
| new thing its VCs...in that case perhaps this VC is giving
| himself advice in public.
| thesausageking wrote:
| That would explain a ton of VC blog posts.
| dougSF70 wrote:
| I should imagine the daily life of being a VC is pretty
| mundane, with the occassional burst of activity...smart
| people need an outlet so why not write that blog, make that
| podcast, go to Barry's Bootcamp.
| [deleted]
| paulpauper wrote:
| Because they go viral, like here. Lots of clicks. Even though
| the comments here seem quite critical, these articles seem to
| do well.
| motohagiography wrote:
| Invest money, take the satisfaction of investing in others and
| seeing them grow it, and reward people who invest their time to
| produce the things that really do take time, but don't confuse
| the symbols and their artifacts with the real.
|
| My hack around this was to recognize the only things that were
| valuable cost time. Fast way to do that was by recognizing the
| difference between the symbol or representation of something, and
| its real effect. As a symbol, money makes it it really easy to
| acquire other symbols, but that's all they are. Instead, get good
| at something, and even use some money to make opportunity (buy
| the time, your own or someone elses) to do it, but the more money
| you spend on them the less satisfying they are. An example is
| buying an expensive instrument to take beginner lessons, where
| learning on one can be so unsatisfying and humiliating relative
| to its symbolic value as to discourage you from pursuing it. The
| basic absurdity of culture is the belief that if you consume
| enough symbols of desire you eventually become one - and also
| perhaps that it is for the lack of those symbols that you are not
| normal or desirable. Symbols certainly help us negotiate the
| culture around us, but they are not the substrate or the real.
|
| A quant once told me that the ideal portfolio lets you both eat
| well and sleep well, but they come at a cost to each other, so
| good luck with managing, i.e. extracting value from - money. It's
| not a problem I have, or one that I particularly envy because I
| mainly value time, and index on sleeping well over eating well.
| jemmyw wrote:
| I thought about this exact thing after the only time in my life
| so far I was in a position to get a brand new car. The research
| up to it was a lot more fun than actually having it.
|
| I've run with this since, perhaps a little more than is healthy.
| Want something new: research aggressively but actually back out
| of ever buying. Our car (not the new one, that was a different
| country years ago) is getting to the point of needing more work
| than it's value, so I've been looking at new ones, taking test
| drives etc. But we won't buy any of those, we'll buy something
| used and quite old.
|
| It might sound ok, I've got it solved and get that dopamine hit
| without consequence, but it's a huge waste of my time and it
| affects pretty much every purchase decision.
| kristianp wrote:
| I've recently enjoyed researching a new laptop purchase, even
| went so far as some web scraping. Getting the actual machine
| should be enjoyable too, but a let down because it means the
| end of reading about new hardware with such delicious intent.
| toto444 wrote:
| I have found that instead of wanting things I don't own, wanting
| to see created things I haven't created yet very liberating.
|
| Since it makes my goals very personal, I can't compare myself on
| an objective metric with other people and as a result feel less
| frustrated about not earning more.
| amelius wrote:
| How do you trick your brain into this? How do you ignore
| friends who buy a new car every year?
| drbig wrote:
| > How do you ignore friends who buy a new car every year?
|
| No need to ignore anything. Instead realize that everyone on
| this planet has exactly the same amount of hours in a day -
| the poorest and the richest alike. With that understood
| realize that you can only spend your time on so _few_ things
| that you better choose what's really important to you.
|
| And thus one may choose to spend time on projects and making
| stuff, and "friends who buy a new car every year" are simply
| people that chose differently - there is little point to
| ordering the choices (or conversely you can always design a
| metric by which any given choice will be strictly superior to
| others - thus making such orderings generally pointless).
|
| And in terms of money and even its power to buy time - it's
| all diminishing results surprisingly quickly. And if you like
| cars then indeed switching every year sounds like a much
| better strategy than owning many at the same time.
|
| To each their own. Would be extremely dull otherwise!
| barelyauser wrote:
| > How do you ignore friends who buy a new car every year?
|
| The fact you notice and thinks about it means you care. You
| want a new car every year. You envy it. Be honest to yourself
| and go get it. That is what you want.
| tmshu1 wrote:
| What stops you from just ignoring them?
| amelius wrote:
| Are you suggesting to ignore friends/family? What if they
| offer you a car ride, and start bragging about their car?
| Not just once, but over and over. And they have a Bentley,
| and you have a second hand Toyota? How are serious mind
| tricks not necessary here to keep your sanity?
| mantas wrote:
| What's the problem? Tell the truth that it is indeed a
| nice car.
|
| If you have sanity issues because you ain't driving the
| nicest car in town... Maybe that's the core issue? Why do
| you place so much importance on having the nicest car?
| Vast majority of people do not give a damn what others
| drive/wear/whatever.
| amelius wrote:
| The Bentley is a nice car. The problem is that, unless
| you are a Tibetan monk, it will make your Toyota look
| less nice.
| mantas wrote:
| And Bugatti would make Bentley a not-so-nice car. But
| once you go off tarmac for your forest cabin, both cars
| will suck. You may enjoy your 2nd hand toyota, especially
| if it's rav4, much more...
|
| All in all the only way to win this game is to not play.
| BizarreByte wrote:
| Some of us don't have to trick ourselves. I own a modest
| house and modest car, they fit into my budget and put me so
| far ahead of my peers financially people don't believe me
| when I say how good things are.
|
| A car especially is just a tool, I care as much about
| someone's car as I do the hammer in their toolbox, but I am
| not a car person.
|
| It comes down to what you value. Stability, time, and
| financial freedom matter more to me than any fancy thing I
| could buy.
| etothepii wrote:
| The ultimate luxuries are time and freedom. I'm _jealous_
| of those with more of these but not those with a bigger
| house or car.
| BizarreByte wrote:
| > The ultimate luxuries are time and freedom.
|
| They definitely are, which is why I forego things that
| take them away from me. No children or dogs in my future.
| petercooper wrote:
| I think it depends on what the car represents to you. Are you
| truly _into cars_ or are you into the _status_ conferred by
| owning a new car?
|
| If you're genuinely into cars and driving, you might well
| indulge in buying nice cars and find it emotionally
| fulfilling. If it's about status, however, you can probably
| find more fulfilling ways to attain status that doesn't
| involve purchasing a trinket you don't truly want or need -
| perhaps by becoming known in the local area as a
| donor/philanthropist, having the best garden on the street,
| involvement in local politics or sports teams, being in a
| band, becoming a busybody on the PTA, and such things. (I
| admit these things all sound a bit suburban but that's my
| frame of reference.)
| toto444 wrote:
| I can ask you the same question :
|
| How do you ignore friends who write a new book every year?
| 0wis wrote:
| Personally, I have some tricks that seem to help. I force
| myself to come up with at least 3 things I am grateful for as
| part of my daily journaling. I started this some years ago
| and it really help to change your focus towards enjoying
| everything you already have access in modern society. Plus,
| learning about personal finance, investing and compounding
| made me think twice before spending. I end up valuing more
| financial freedom than incremental comfort/status upgrade.
| ericmcer wrote:
| I don't ignore them I usually view them as someone whose
| priorities don't align with mine.
|
| Money is freedom and trading that freedom to get a shiny toy
| doesn't make sense to me. I would much rather know I can work
| on what I want or not work at all than drive to my job in a
| nicer car.
| hef19898 wrote:
| The most valuable thing money buys you is first security,
| directly followed by freedom. I would never trade that
| freedom in for some shiny toy, or trinket. Or something to
| impress other people with. If it is something I truely
| enjoy, and can afford comfortably sure. But then is much
| more about the experience than it is about the _thing_.
|
| And if people judge you as person based on the car you
| have, the clothes you wear or the appartment / house you
| live in, well, maybe ignoring those people actually is a
| healthy thing to do.
| antisceptic wrote:
| I'd imagine a healthier version of something like:
| "Simpletons, relying on consumerism for their dopamine rush,
| they're no different from ants! Meanwhile I am a /creator/ of
| things!"
| amelius wrote:
| You can't hide in that idea because back in the real world,
| your friends receive all the love and admiration for owning
| great things (something like status), while you get a tap
| on the shoulder.
| speedgoose wrote:
| We may live in different worlds. I don't know anyone who
| buys a new car every year and if one starts to do so I
| will feel sorry about their poor financial judgment.
| tmshu1 wrote:
| Do you actually want love and admiration? What if
| magically, you got the same love and admiration tomorrow?
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Not "the real world" but rather your perception of the
| world. "The real world" implies that it's the same thing
| you describe for everyone. It is definitely bot.
| toto444 wrote:
| I'd say my version does not include comparison to others. I
| actually wish more people try their best to create great
| things even if what their creations are much better than
| mine.
|
| My version would be more like :
|
| "Owning a car is very circumstantial. It means you
| temporarily have some property right on it. It can break,
| it can be taken away from you. If you create something it's
| yours forever. Its existence is not independant of your
| will.".
|
| At the end of their lives some people will have owned ten
| cars, others will have written ten books.
| tmshu1 wrote:
| Same. For me, the creational mindset led to a sense of freedom
| and excitement that the problem-solving mindset can never get
| close to.
|
| Problem-solving mindset: what problem do I need to solve?
| "Problems" will always arise life (due to other people, random
| events, our brain always wanting novelty, etc.), so this
| mindset is a reactive one that leads to anxiety and lack of
| direction.
|
| Creational mindset: what would I _love_ to create? This mindset
| can seem harder to get at because of all the conditioning we've
| gotten from society and childhood. But all it takes is a simple
| perspective shift. It leads to more proactivity, and trust that
| you'll be able to do whatever you need to do. All the
| secondary, tertiary, etc. questions about _how_ get answered
| relatively easily when you're clear about _what_ you want to
| create.
| leach wrote:
| I think people need to seek what is fulfilling for them, not what
| just necessarily makes them happy .
| pdimitar wrote:
| Rich people getting bored and unhappy is 200% on them and them
| only. I know of no less than 7 separate things I'd lose myself
| into -- all related to inventing stuff -- that I actually would
| be afraid if I'll be giving my wife enough attention. That's how
| active I would be if I didn't have to worry about a job and a
| salary.
|
| I know other people like myself as well, some more obsessed and
| downright hyperactive even.
|
| People lose themselves in material items and status. I want to
| buy stuff so I waste less time on things I don't enjoy -- washing
| machine is the perfect example. I want computers because I can
| program my ideas. I want an electronic workshop corner because I
| want to get into that and experiment. I want an air fryer because
| I have high cholesterol and want to experiment with healthier
| cooking. Many other good and valid examples exist.
|
| Don't lose yourself in material items. Status does not exist.
| Decouple your money-making scheme from other people perceiving
| you as having "status". Important thing is for the number in the
| bank to keep increasing, everything else is a distraction. As
| long as you're not harming people, kidnapping kids or raping
| anyone then by all means, go crazy getting rich by doing legal
| stuff.
|
| My observation from the 8 rich people I knew in my life is: they
| got lucky, they succeeded too quickly, they have ZERO direction
| in life, they have no clue what to do with their free time. They
| got miserable not even 2 years into it.
|
| To me they are weak and uninteresting people whose only
| impressive trait is that ONCE in their lifetime they managed to
| combine two and two together and called somebody at the right
| time (and these opportunities were more often than not created
| for them; they didn't initiate them).
|
| But of course, "pull the ladder after yourself" and all, we know
| it. They are weak and uninteresting but they don't want
| competition and they have the tools in their hands to ensure
| that's the case.
|
| It is how it is apparently. I'll fight to become rich as much as
| my personal limitations allow me and I am likely to fail but at
| least I won't ever complain about "having too much" or "the
| moment you have it it's no longer wanted".
|
| Meh. Get some imagination!
|
| ---
|
| _Oh, and that article sounds like paid propaganda: "you actually
| don't want what you think you want, be happy with what you have".
| Oh yeah? Well I'll be happy if I work 20h a month for the same
| money as now. And healthier. I can't. Then bugger off because
| your article does not help with anything._
| zackmorris wrote:
| The one thing I can't have is rest. I have approximations of
| rest: coping, procrastinating, dissociating. But the fantasy of
| achieving rest is something that I've had to let go of, like
| Sisyphus.
|
| After multiple boom-bust cycles and returning to the land of
| the living after burnout, I feel that the world's problems are
| caused by people who have too much either being unwilling or
| unable to empathize with the struggle of others.
|
| It's not that I'm jealous of the rich. In fact, I have no real
| use for money other than to get left alone.
|
| And it's not that I'm lazy. In fact, my education, experience
| and work capacity allow me to take on high workloads.
|
| No, the central crisis for me is that my standard of living
| depends on taking from others. If I want to eat well,
| wilderness has to be cleared, someone has to pick the food,
| animals will die. If I want to live well, trees have to get cut
| down, fossil fuels have to be extracted, people will die mining
| and refining minerals. All that I do, all that I am, places
| additional burden on someone else.
|
| So I've decided to live modestly, working just enough to keep a
| roof over my head and drive a vehicle so that I can meet the
| minimum demands of civilization. If I could, I would give it
| all back and live in a state of ultimate gratitude and peace.
|
| But the wealthy don't do that. They just keep taking more and
| more and more, giving little or nothing back. Reaching a
| position of power only to deny it to someone else. Perhaps the
| ultimate sin besides taking another's life.
|
| Profit means that someone didn't pay high enough wages.
| Inheritance means that resources were stolen from one
| generation for the next. Philanthropy means that someone didn't
| pay their taxes, so we had to.
|
| Once you've hit rock bottom and see through the veil of
| illusion, wealth accumulation becomes a repugnant thing. The
| thing separating one from the divine. The thing that
| perpetuates the suffering we were born into.
|
| The eerie part is, for all that I've experienced and learned, I
| know that this analysis of the status quo is not the final
| answer. I have not really had an epiphany. We all arrived here
| to incarnate as humans and experience the full gamut of
| suffering and bliss. We have philosophies and religious
| traditions glorifying suffering, even calling it noble and
| pious.
|
| But I've struggled for so long that it's all I have really
| known, to the point where I've lost sight of how to improve my
| situation. But what about the people who have achieved success,
| who do have the means to make things better? Where are the
| wealthy people who demand shorter work hours, more automation
| and time off, more shared prosperity and even UBI? Surely there
| is at least one willing and able to speak out and step up.
| lexapro wrote:
| >I know of no less than 7 separate things I'd lose myself into
|
| Consider yourself lucky then. Privileged even. Money is not the
| only privilege there is.
| pdimitar wrote:
| In this case it's bittersweet, sadly. Can never muster the
| time or energy to devote myself to them because working for
| the man is way too tiring but also inescapable...
|
| And yep I'm grateful that I have a curious nature.
| plastic3169 wrote:
| You are right it's 100% on them to sort their life out. Like
| your 8 acquaintances I think most people are very unsuited for
| riches atleast until they adjust. Also almost all people think
| they themselves would be great managing that situation. It's
| like imagining you will be great parent before you have kids.
| Or the famous quote, Everybody has a plan before they get
| punched in the mouth.
|
| Life change like that affects your whole life from there on
| 24/7. In a way you cannot actively decide how you will act. You
| will probably fall back to your inner default way of reacting
| to things, but your life is subtly changed.
|
| The things that were great passions when you always lacked time
| to properly get in to them might turn out to be just another
| job when you start doing them more. Holiday trip might mean
| nothing if your not having a break from anything. Ventures in
| easy mode without risk might feel stale. All consumption is
| pointless anyway. Maybe all tinkering is as well? Etc.
| pdimitar wrote:
| Getting a vacation when you have no job indeed sounds funny
| and meaningless, yes, but we also need a change of scenery
| every now and then, regardless of our level of wealth. It's a
| basic and universal human trait.
|
| And maybe I'll get tired of the tinkering I want to do now
| (but can't). I'd still like to find out if that's the case.
|
| There are creative pursuits that can take a lifetime however.
| Eventually you will find and choose what to consume you.
|
| My main point is that there is a subset of humans who can
| never be bored. And it seems that it has no intersection with
| rich people. If that's indeed true (which I doubt; the world
| is not so black and white) it would be interesting to find
| out why.
|
| In the end, we all need meaning and some struggle. Shame that
| most rich people choose to struggle over petty stuff like who
| has the most expensive watch or who will sleep with the
| youngest legal boy/girl on that party, or whatever else that
| signals status.
|
| Shame on them that not even one of them tried to become
| Ironman or Batman.
| plastic3169 wrote:
| Here's hoping we make it to the otherside and can reflect
| back to this with experience.
|
| TBH I'm sure there are people who have no trouble with
| these things. It is just common to read experiences from
| rich and famous in which they say that it is actually quite
| tricky to live that life (sandwhiched between the
| obligatory platitudes about how lucky and priviledged they
| are)
| mmmuhd wrote:
| The author clearly has no experience of poverty, when you are
| poor, really poor, you have nothing to eat, you must go out to
| try to find something to eat, and finding the thing to eat is not
| assured, you'll know that owning things is the last thing on your
| mind, no matter what you come to be in life later, you'll live in
| constant fear of going back to poverty.
| rippercushions wrote:
| Spend money on experiences, not things: shows, concerts, meals,
| travel. Rarely if ever have I regretted spending money on one,
| and nobody can take them away from you later.
| BizarreByte wrote:
| My memory sure can, stuff a decade ago might of well have not
| happened for all I can remember. I remember the basic stuff,
| but none of the details.
|
| Anyway I'll add to this that you don't have to like all
| experiences. I have tried to force myself to like travelling,
| but I've come to accept I just despise every aspect of it.
| Other people find it weird, but whatever.
| keymon-o wrote:
| Same. I had plenty of so-called life worthy experiences, and
| nothing would make recommend that lifestyle to someone.
|
| To be happy or at least satisfied and content, it takes a lot
| of introspection and creativity on how to pursue what you
| really want, which is also rarely in a permanent state. This
| is often overlooked in favor of taking oversimplified life
| advices and time consuming setting of life goals
| [deleted]
| jpttsn wrote:
| This approach never worked well for me. Food and travel is so
| forgettable; it perishes much faster than nice clothes or shiny
| toys.
|
| It also seems like people chase the dragon; keep going to
| restaurants and resorts. If experiences are so unforgettable,
| why would you repeat them each year?
|
| And for most people it (for the outside) looks fraught with
| stupid dysfunction; the White Lotus kinds of things where
| everyone is just struggling to make it worth what they believe
| it is, and strain their relationships and lives in the process.
| hef19898 wrote:
| A resort is a vacation, travel is giong on a safari in
| African, trekking around the Khailash in Tibet, do a road
| trip through Uruguay. A resort doesn't give you experiences
| worth remembering, truely travelling and getting to know new
| cultures and regions does.
| lemongrasstea wrote:
| Depends. There is nothing intrinsically valuable in
| memories about sweating on an uncomfortable trip in Uruguay
| or a memory of being authentically harassed on the streets
| of Mumbai. (These are examples from my authentic trips).
| These fade away as everything else.
|
| Simple resort stay in Greece with my SO is embedded in my
| memory forever.
| wincy wrote:
| I guess maybe the people trashing on resorts just had a
| better upbringing than me. Lazing next to the gently
| lapping ocean in a salt water pool and chatting with my
| wife while my small children splash around happily in the
| 82degF weather while it was snowing at our home was so
| great we decided to stay an extra day. It's certainly
| like no experience I'm accustomed to. If it gets boring
| we'll do something else.
| skeeter2020 wrote:
| I mostly agree, but sometimes the THING (and the act of
| acquisition) is the experience. Example: I really like coffee
| table books. Reading them is enjoyable but finding them, seeing
| them and just owning them also makes me happy.
|
| I also think you should go farther than just the experience
| component and pair it with physical objects that keep the
| memories alive, vibrant and reliveable.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| Maybe I just have a shitty memory, but time has effectively
| taken those away without anyone's help.
| grugagag wrote:
| It's all still part of who you are now. If you're unhappy
| with yourself then maybe it was a waste.
| mantas wrote:
| Frequently the thing is a proxy to experiences. E.g. a bicycle,
| kitchen utensils, a plot of land to grow a garden in, music
| instruments... You get the idea.
|
| Meanwhile many ,,experiences" is just staring at others or
| consuming prepared products. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to
| find out what other people did. But making/doing stuff yourself
| is much more rewardable in the long run. On top of that, we've
| to provide experiences to people around us as well. Not just
| consume experiences provided by others.
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| This article reads like something from a conversation you might
| have with an overconfident plumber who had just read an article
| in "Popular Science". Or someone who lives by IFL Science. Or TED
| Talks.
|
| Maybe the author should read some old philosophy.
|
| Another way to interpret what's going on is that people often
| look for happiness in all the wrong places, or confuse pleasure
| with happiness. In this case, the author is describing people who
| believe acquisition leads to happiness. He is describing the
| thrill of the hunt, that anticipation of a reward that isn't
| there, followed by disappointment because some nebulous misplaced
| expectation isn't met.
|
| Happiness begins with virtue.
| [deleted]
| lazyeye wrote:
| https://reddit.com/r/fatfire
| kristianp wrote:
| I thought this would be something about burning the fat
| capitalist pigs.
| borroka wrote:
| This is a misleading article that, with its mundane look at the
| world, tries to provide a "gotcha" that does not seem to exist
| except in the minds of someone who tries to find "gotchas"
| everywhere, as the author does.
|
| Do you want a new and better car? Actually, you don't want a
| Ferrari, you want dopamine. Do you feel attracted to someone
| younger, better looking, funnier, more interesting than your
| current partner? This is a trap. Well, I would love to have a
| Ferrari and I would love to be in the company of the best partner
| I can find. Call me a dopamine addict if you want.
|
| Although my experience is not necessarily generalizable, it may
| offer the perspective of someone who, through working in the tech
| industry, has gone from having little to having more. Having
| better things makes life more interesting, bigger, and reduces
| the likelihood of having annoying problems. On average, mind you,
| and that is how we should look at people's behavior (we should
| also look at variance, but that would require a longer
| commentary).
|
| We have all experienced the Gatsby syndrome, either personally or
| through other people. Having everything we want except one thing
| we obsessively desire, perhaps a woman or a man, a full head of
| hair, a few inches, the genuine appreciation of others, fewer
| years on our shoulders. It is the limiting factor of a chemical
| reaction. Does this make the possession of things irrelevant? No,
| it just tells us that they are bottlenecks, limiting factors,
| that can keep us from enjoying the material or the easy. But if
| you get rid of the obsession, you will find, as I did, that a
| 5-star hotel is better than a 2-star hotel, natural fabrics
| better than polyester, first class better than knees touching
| ears in economy, a Ferrari better than a 25-year-old Ford. Just
| lived experience.
| joffrywinslow wrote:
| [dead]
| scns wrote:
| Money won't provide happiness, but it is more fun to cry in a
| cab than in the subway.
| borroka wrote:
| Most (all?) of these topics need to be approached in terms of
| probabilities, not absolutes. More money makes it more likely
| to be happier, enjoy life more, or have fewer insurmountable
| problems. It is a truism.
|
| Now, after how much money we reach a plateau for the outcome
| being considered (happiness, the best care in case of
| illness, sending children to the best colleges, traveling the
| world in 80 days), whether there are trade-offs between the
| money obtained and the ways of obtaining the money are
| examples of topics that may be more interesting, and they are
| all context-dependent. But if someone wants to give me money
| as a gift and makes me choose between $10 million and $50
| million, I choose $50 million. And I might have the temerity
| to ask if there is by any chance also the possibility of
| getting $100 million.
|
| And it is the same for all positive traits or qualities,
| which are, in fact, considered positive because they make it
| more likely to achieve the goal being talked about.
|
| Then we can discuss more interesting matters of trade-offs
| and let people like the author of the article enjoy a nap
| instead of offering the usual trivial contentions with his
| writings.
| dixie_land wrote:
| I've recently had some misfortunes in the romantic
| department.
|
| It is objectively a better experience being depressed in my
| hilltop hot tub over looking acres than the 1bd apartment the
| 20yr old me had.
| jpttsn wrote:
| A bunch of other rich people don't know how to enjoy their stuff
| but you don't have to fall in that trap.
|
| There is a "mindfulness" angle. Instead of taking it always for
| granted, pay attention and make time enjoy your stuff.
|
| Thoigh if you keep realizing the things you have worked hard for
| don't end up making you happy, that might be hopeless.
| keymon-o wrote:
| > There is a "mindfulness" angle. Instead of taking it always
| for granted, pay attention and make time enjoy your stuff.
|
| Being satisfied with what you have is what "poor" people
| (people who can't have everything) do in order to be happy.
| What's the benefit of being rich then?
| nicbou wrote:
| There is virtue in economy.
|
| - Consuming is usually bad for the environment, even if
| you're rich. Being satisfied conserves resources.
|
| - The work you devote to something gives it its value. I
| appreciate good food, good art, good engineering and good
| woodworking because I have repeatedly attempted them. If you
| just buy stuff without consideration, you rob yourself of a
| finer experience.
| hef19898 wrote:
| More freedom by virtue of having more money? Above a certain
| level of "enough" money, money becomes less and less
| important. Or it becomes an obsession, in which case more
| money takes away freedom. Falling into this trap is tragic if
| you ask me.
|
| And there will always be sometjing you want but cannot have,
| regardless how much money have. E.g. art, the Mona Lisa will
| never be up for sale. Or some other unique piece of art.
| Accepting that fact makes you a happier person, or at least
| doesn't hurt.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _Being satisfied with what you have is what "poor" people
| (people who can't have everything) do in order to be happy.
| What's the benefit of being rich then?_
|
| It's the ability to do what you want with your time, and to
| (increasingly with more wealth) say fuck you to people who
| try to force you into this or that.
|
| It's also the increased ability to change things (for you,
| others, your city, or even your whole country) towards what
| you want to happen, aka power and influence.
|
| "Being able to buy nice stuff" is the benefit of being rich
| that poor (or well-offish but still mostly aspiring to
| greater wealth) people think being rich is about...
| AlbertCory wrote:
| A phrase there that needs amplifying: here's an un-original
| quote
|
| _What the point of having fuck-you money, if you never say
| 'fuck you'?_
| keymon-o wrote:
| This is your take on being rich and not at all related to
| what the article was about, what parent said and the point
| I was trying to make.
| pdimitar wrote:
| > _What's the benefit of being rich then?_
|
| Freedom.
|
| Owning better material items is only meant to facilitate
| freedom. I'm not a collector and never will be, even if I
| inherit two billion bucks tomorrow.
|
| Examples:
|
| - I'll get an expensive bike so me and my wife can go on an
| impulsive picnic in the outskirts of the city.
|
| - I'll get an extra house in rural France so we're free to go
| there if we need the scenery for a few weeks (but will
| otherwise allow a local family to take care of it).
|
| - I'll just invent stuff in my shed -- or compose the
| programs I always wanted to write on my computers -- if I'm
| never worried about money in the future.
|
| ---
|
| Rich people getting bored and even unhappy is just lack of
| imagination, intellectual and physical laziness.
|
| Being rich and unhappy is entirely on them. It can be much
| better in every way but they're too busy complaining about
| non-issues to see it.
| subpixel wrote:
| It is on them, but they are legion. That matters, because
| they influence the direction of our society on many levels.
| It's not inaccurate to say American culture is a product of
| a rich and unhappy worldview.
| zdragnar wrote:
| You need to define American culture, which is no trivial
| thing. It's like saying "European culture"- just vague
| generalizations that fit whatever lazy stereotype you
| prefer
| subpixel wrote:
| Let's not split hairs.
| keymon-o wrote:
| You took the question out of the context. Parent expressed
| that rich people would be happier by enjoying their wealth
| and changing and controlling what they want and how they
| enjoy it. That's the same thing 'poor' people can do - be
| happy by controlling their urges. For all your examples, as
| a poor guy:
|
| - I can control to enjoy a scenery or a picnic from local
| park or nearby forest and
|
| - I can control of being worried about the money and doing
| exactly what I feel like doing (considering it makes me
| trully happy)
|
| As a rich guy:
|
| - I'd not be sure why I should pedal and sit on a muddy
| grass instead of renting Hummer and going to some fine
| dining restaurant
|
| - I'd not be sure should I be wasting my time having all
| this money when I could be treating myself with X and Y
|
| Once again, what's the benefit if I need to take a mental
| and physical effort in order to be happy? Your last two
| paragraphs are the exact thing I am talking about, and can
| be applied to non-rich people as well.
| xtiansimon wrote:
| "Being satisfied..." is what you do to not go bananas---to
| consume for the sake of consuming in a society structured
| around consumption for the sake of society...
| etothepii wrote:
| I just don't see the car angle. It's an example people use but I
| don't see it. Sometimes I wish our car was a bit bigger because
| it would make our lives easier. Now I'm wealthy enough to buy a
| car from new, I do. But that's primarily for the hastle factor
| not the status.
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