[HN Gopher] Setuid in Unix created to enable a game
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Setuid in Unix created to enable a game
        
       Author : zdw
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2023-02-04 01:53 UTC (21 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (minnie.tuhs.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (minnie.tuhs.org)
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | Later on early GNU/Linux games followed the same idea by
       | requiring setuid to use games written against SVGALib.
        
         | 0x0 wrote:
         | That's because direct i/o and device access for VGA card
         | manipulation requires root access, it's not directly relates to
         | file permissions. Same with X11 servers for the longest time
         | (until the kernel started providing APIs for this)
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Devices are files on UNIX, as we all know from its design.
           | 
           | It was more due to lack of userspace APIs for graphics
           | programming than anything else.
        
             | mjg59 wrote:
             | Eh you also need to call iopl() which is a privileged
             | operation, it's not just about file permissions
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | It is a Linux specific API.
        
             | jjtheblunt wrote:
             | Minor nitpick from someone who wrote device drivers at a
             | FAANG whose name starts with A and who is not based in
             | Seattle: devices can have a presence as a device special
             | file in the filesystem, but they might be not represented
             | in the filesystem also...they might be hiding down some
             | hardware bus, for example.
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Depends on which UNIX.
        
       | enriquto wrote:
       | Notice the author of this message!
       | 
       | This mailing list is full of actual legends, speaking casually
       | about minutiae of unix history. Do not go there unless you have a
       | strong antidote against time sinks.
        
       | Maursault wrote:
       | The history blurb in the Wikipedia article for setuid doesn't
       | conflict, confirms a bit, and adds some details:
       | The setuid bit was invented by Dennis Ritchie and included in su.
       | His employer, then Bell Telephone Laboratories, applied for a
       | patent in 1972; the patent was granted in 1979 as patent number
       | US 4135240 "Protection of data file contents." The patent was
       | later placed in the public domain.[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setuid#History
        
         | mort96 wrote:
         | Man parents are insane. How could something like that
         | _possibly_ be patentable? How does giving gigantic companies
         | monopoly on a fucking setuid bit do us any good?
         | 
         | Do/did intelligent people like Dennis Ritchie really not feel
         | any discomfort by the fact that their great work robs the world
         | of that very work through the parent system?
        
           | simscitizen wrote:
           | No that's not the insane part. The insane part is that this
           | is the only patent that came out of entire Research UNIX
           | project [1].
           | 
           | [1] See the answer to question 25 on Rob Pike's blog:
           | https://commandcenter.blogspot.com/2020/01/unix-quiz-
           | answers....
        
           | fortran77 wrote:
           | It's novel and useful.
        
           | Someone wrote:
           | > How could something like that possibly be patentable?
           | 
           | If, _back_then_, it was new, non-obvious to a person having
           | ordinary skill in the art (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pers
           | on_having_ordinary_skill_i...), and not the only way to do
           | what it does, why wouldn't it?
           | 
           | Now, was it, back then? I wouldn't know, but I think there is
           | a decent chance it was.
        
             | mort96 wrote:
             | I should probably have been more clear, but I'm not _that_
             | concerned about whether it 's patentable from a legal
             | perspective as patent law currently exists. Clearly current
             | laws are interpreted to allow such patents. I'm more
             | concerned about, why do we think it's a Good Thing(tm) that
             | companies just get state-enforced legal monopolies over
             | those kinds of ideas.
        
               | insanitybit wrote:
               | Not just companies, people. That's why. It means that if
               | I came up with a really novel way to solve the problem of
               | protecting file contents I, an individual, can protect
               | myself from some massive company just copying the idea
               | and selling it.
               | 
               | As with most laws there's good and bad.
        
               | mort96 wrote:
               | I wasn't concerning myself with people here, but with
               | companies. Corporations are not people. Whether patents
               | are appropriate for the lone independent inventor is its
               | own discussion.
        
               | a-user-you-like wrote:
               | Let's establish the principle first: could a person
               | patent it?
        
           | jjtheblunt wrote:
           | It's possible Bell Labs had the patent but also was entirely
           | open to others using the idea freely.
        
             | mort96 wrote:
             | So is it good to give a company the state-backed legal
             | monopoly on the idea of a permission bit to run an
             | executable as a different user, as long as the company
             | elects to be real nice about it?
        
               | jjtheblunt wrote:
               | Yeah i don't get that either, and agree that it does seem
               | weird.
               | 
               | maybe it was one of those that slipped through the patent
               | office as outside their true expertise?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-02-04 23:01 UTC)