[HN Gopher] The following security updates require Ubuntu Pro wi...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The following security updates require Ubuntu Pro with 'esm-apps'
       enabled
        
       Author : dmitrygr
       Score  : 107 points
       Date   : 2023-02-02 17:57 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nixcraft.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nixcraft.com)
        
       | oriettaxx wrote:
       | If anybody is interested in the figures https://find-and-
       | update.company-information.service.gov.uk/c...
       | 
       | any reaction from OpenStack ?
        
       | MindTooth wrote:
       | Not sure I like this push on Pro.
       | 
       | Are RHEL derivatives more relevant now?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | sekh60 wrote:
         | RHEL and derivatives have long been the standard in the Ops
         | world for their stability. Rocky Linux and Alma linux are the
         | main two community editions, they are both supported by pretty
         | good communities, so it's hard to pick one.
         | 
         | Seems Ubuntu was largely popular with devs and the masses due
         | to it's ease of use back in the day. Never understood why more
         | didn't just go with Fedora back then.
        
           | angry_moose wrote:
           | How's Rocky coming along?
           | 
           | I used to be a RHEL admin and was just more comfortable over
           | there, but after the whole CentOS mess I ended up running
           | Ubuntu LTS at home instead - I just wanted a "set it and
           | forget it" machine so I didn't go with Fedora.
           | 
           | I'm currently regretting that decision, as I'm really not
           | looking forward to devoting another weekend to rebuilding
           | again.
        
             | fanatic2pope wrote:
             | I don't know about Rocky, but I updated all my CentOS
             | systems (about a dozen desktops and a file server) to
             | Stream and they work fine. The changeover has been pretty
             | much a non-event.
        
             | sekh60 wrote:
             | I just rebuilt one my ceph nodes with Rocky 9. Seems they
             | are pretty closely tracking RHEL. I think Alma is a little
             | quicker with patches, but both are fast.
        
           | ibz wrote:
           | Better marketing, I suppose. Many people really think Linux =
           | Ubuntu.
        
           | vetinari wrote:
           | Fedora, while very nice, goes too fast. Basically as fast, as
           | the non-LTS ubuntu releases. Ubuntu has the LTS option, for
           | Fedora, that LTS option was CentOS and today Rocky/Alma.
        
             | oriettaxx wrote:
             | what about centos stream?
        
               | vetinari wrote:
               | If it works for you, why not. Just be aware, that the
               | point releases did have breaking ABI changes, and now
               | they can happen randomly, without waiting for point
               | release.
               | 
               | Since I used the old, non-stream centos, the changes left
               | some bitter taste. Enough to prefer alma.
        
             | TingPing wrote:
             | Fedora is supported for 1 year. Ubuntu non-LTS is supported
             | for 9 months.
             | 
             | Subjectively Fedora has a far more robust updater and just
             | higher quality releases in general IME.
        
               | vetinari wrote:
               | 9mo vs 1y is not a much of practical difference.
               | 
               | With the rest, I agree. I run fedora on my desktop, but I
               | would not use it for my parents, for example. Even with
               | LTS, they were complaining that it changes all the time.
        
           | grey_earthling wrote:
           | > Never understood why more didn't just go with Fedora back
           | then.
           | 
           | For me at least: back then Fedora didn't have a supported
           | non-terminal way to upgrade to a newer major version.
           | (Whereas now upgrading Fedora is more polished and simpler
           | than Ubuntu.)
        
           | ascar wrote:
           | My last dip into alternative distros (~2 years ago) for my
           | dev desktop was quickly over by various problems/missing
           | settings for display, audio and network. Not saying it
           | wouldn't have worked (one was even ubuntu based), but I had
           | to go and configure desktop stuff on the CLI, including
           | having to figure out how. I rather not.
           | 
           | I'm absolutely fine running something else on a server though
           | and my docker images are usually alpine based. But for
           | desktop Ubuntu is the closest to "looks decent and just
           | works"
        
         | ibz wrote:
         | Wouldn't Debian be a safer choice? Ubuntu is just layers on top
         | of Debian (one of the layers being the "pro" thing, it
         | seems...). So Debian _should_ the the obvious solution. RHEL
         | would be the most likely to move in the same direction as
         | Ubuntu, wouldn 't it?
        
       | PabloOsinaga wrote:
       | This comes across as bad but it is actually not that bad.
       | 
       | Those packages are from the universe repo, which includes ~23,000
       | packages that historically have been best effort maintained
       | (unlike the main repository with ~2,300 packages that have
       | guaranteed maintenance).
       | 
       | Ubuntu continues providing guaranteed maintenance for the main
       | repo for free as it always have.
       | 
       | Now they are adding additional maintenance guarantees for 23,000
       | packages (which is a positive addition IMO), and making that
       | available via Ububntu Pro
       | 
       | You can opt to not use Ubuntu Pro and you would continue getting
       | the same guarantees as you were getting from Universe as before
       | (which largely tracks Debian)
       | 
       | More details here in the "What's new with the Ubuntu Pro plan"
       | section of https://ubuntu.com/pro
        
         | donmcronald wrote:
         | > This comes across as bad but it is actually not that bad.
         | 
         | It's actually pretty bad. If you're running Ubuntu anywhere
         | there's a bit of bureaucracy, like a government or large
         | business, you get backed into a corner.
         | 
         | You can _never_ use any of the packages from  'universe' unless
         | you're buying Ubuntu Pro because if you ever get hit with an
         | exploit where there was a patch available, regardless of the
         | circumstances, you'll get crucified.
         | 
         | The insurance company, admin staff, ambitious peers, security
         | analysts, etc. will bury you for not patching a known
         | vulnerability. This is the end of Ubuntu's 'universe' repo for
         | businesses that can't afford $500/year/server. It's just that
         | no one has realized it yet.
        
           | vore wrote:
           | Well, yeah. This has always been the case, but now you can
           | pay to not have this be the case. They're not taking anything
           | away. If you had these concerns about the universe repo
           | before Ubuntu Pro, _you should not have been using it in the
           | first place_.
        
         | graton wrote:
         | > More details here in the "What's new with the Ubuntu Pro
         | plan" section of https://ubuntu.com/pro
         | 
         | Not sure about how they show things which are in "universe" and
         | therefore unsupported. Packages like: Python, Perl, Go, Docker,
         | and more...
         | 
         | If those aren't included in the base OS, that is a bit
         | concerning.
        
       | anonymousiam wrote:
       | I've been using Ubuntu (and variants that use the Ubuntu
       | repositories) for years. I'm glad to see this push by Canonical
       | for improved quality/security across the "universe", and I also
       | see it as a reminder that I've been benefiting from their work
       | without compensating them for years. I'm going to sign up for a
       | paid pro account even though the free tier would be enough for
       | me.
        
       | tinus_hn wrote:
       | How are they going to prevent people from sharing their patches,
       | as the license on most of these packages allows them to do?
        
       | oauea wrote:
       | Paywalling security updates is evil. Goodbye ubuntu.
        
       | Freak_NL wrote:
       | Aw man... I'm really not looking forward to getting out of my
       | comfort zone of just running the current Ubuntu LTS on all my
       | machines. Not that I fear other distributions, but I'm just at a
       | loss at figuring out how to get the combination of broadly
       | supported (also by Steam and Proton on my desktop rig), just
       | working out of the box, and minimal fuss.
       | 
       | The writing has been on the wall a while though, with snap making
       | some tools borderline unusable until you install a non-snap
       | version.
        
         | PufPufPuf wrote:
         | I'm a daily user of Pop_OS! by System76.
         | (https://pop.system76.com/) It's developed as a desktop system
         | for their range of computers, but you can install it on
         | anything, as I did. It Just Works(tm) and I didn't have any
         | compatibility issues with it -- as an anecdote, once I was able
         | to connect to a Samsung printer out of the box, while my
         | friends using Windows had to search online for drivers.
        
           | nescioquid wrote:
           | I bought a laptop from System76 with Pop_OS! installed.
           | 
           | After turning on wifi and running the updates, I then
           | installed emacs, firefox, and KDE from the Pop_OS! repo, then
           | ran the updates again.
           | 
           | Instead of continuing the process of "moving in", I found apt
           | was now in an error state with what appears to be some broken
           | circular dependencies. My immediate conclusion was that
           | Pop_OS! is either flaky or I was unlucky enough to use their
           | system for the first time just as they had a packaging bug
           | that affected me.
           | 
           | I don't think putting out a solid distro is a trivial thing.
           | System76 probably put in a lot of effort into their (IMHO
           | weird) desktop environment. They also have been promoting
           | donation subscriptions for Pop_OS! development support. Based
           | on my experience, I wonder if they bit off more than they
           | could chew, squandering effort on flashy things rather than
           | doing the basics well.
        
         | version_five wrote:
         | I agree I'm going to migrate away from them, I can't support
         | this.
         | 
         | Naive question: I've got ubuntu running on servers (mostly just
         | shared files and computer) and some cloud gpu machines. Are
         | these affected as well? As in the ubuntu images that come from
         | aws et al are presumably not "pro" so they won't be properly
         | watchable?
         | 
         | As an aside, what a rip-off. I'm generally hesitant to use free
         | tools from for-profit companies for fear of how they'll later
         | try and monetize, and this is a pretty good case of a company
         | deciding to lure people in then do something really scummy
        
           | jzb wrote:
           | "I'm generally hesitant to use free tools from for-profit
           | companies for fear of how they'll later try and monetize, and
           | this is a pretty good case of a company deciding to lure
           | people in then do something really scummy"
           | 
           | Counterpoint: Canonical has to pay people to produce Ubuntu.
           | Eventually they need to figure out how to get enough people
           | to pay to cover expenses, salaries, etc. The last revenue
           | figures I saw from Ubuntu were in the green, but that was
           | 2020 and it's not like they were generating a huge profit.
           | The prior year showed a loss. And apparently they are or were
           | planning to go public in 2023. [1] (Whether they'll go
           | through with that given <gestures at everything> the state of
           | the world is another question.)
           | 
           | If the existing system isn't converting enough users from
           | free -> paid, then the alternative may be "didn't work, stop
           | producing these tools, period."
           | 
           | I've had my fair share of complaints about Canonical over the
           | years (Snap, Unity, the so-called Harmony effort to normalize
           | non-friendly CLAs), but if you like being able to expect
           | releases with a certain level of polish and updates...
           | they've got to bring in money.
           | 
           | If you and users like you are unwilling to pay when they
           | don't employ monetization tactics, then... either they end or
           | they start exploring ways to bring in money.
           | 
           | So - just doling out Ubuntu hasn't quite done the trick. If
           | not for "scummy" tactics, what is going to get you to pay for
           | the things you use? If the answer is "nothing" then there's
           | little value in Canonical catering to your preferences.
           | 
           | [1] https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/21/canonical-now-hopes-to-
           | ipo...
        
           | Gordonjcp wrote:
           | > I agree I'm going to migrate away from them, I can't
           | support this.
           | 
           | It almost certainly doesn't affect anything you run on your
           | servers.
           | 
           | Even if you did have Universe packages on your servers, what
           | it means is that you now have the option to get Ubuntu Pro
           | and have security updates for those packages.
           | 
           | Up until this point, you did not get security updates for
           | those packages.
        
         | ridgered4 wrote:
         | FWIW I run Mint which is ubuntu-ish, and Steam and proton don't
         | really give me any trouble.
        
           | claytonjy wrote:
           | PopOS is in a similar space, if a bit further from Ubuntu
           | than Mint is (still uses apt!), and I've had no issues with
           | Steam there either.
        
             | Freak_NL wrote:
             | With both Mint and Pop!OS I worry about the consequences of
             | essentially being downstream versions of Ubuntu. I'll see
             | if the Mint maintainers have a view on this; it does seem
             | like a candidate.
             | 
             | Pop!OS seems nice, but I never really got the impression
             | that System76 is doing much more than just reskinning
             | Ubuntu. It just doesn't feel like something that will last.
             | 
             | Going back upstream is an option of course, i.e., Debian.
             | It seems to have modernized quite a bit since the olden
             | days.
             | 
             | At least there are choices. :)
        
               | beepbooptheory wrote:
               | I feel like its much more just reskinning Gnome though,
               | or at least all that is the part I like about it. I
               | haven't tried it myself, but there is no reason I think
               | you couldn't run their DE, tiling, and Launcher ontop of
               | Arch or Nixos.
        
               | solarkraft wrote:
               | > I worry about the consequences of essentially being
               | downstream versions of Ubuntu
               | 
               | FOr now it doesn't worry me much. Ubuntu is fine if you
               | just remove the bad parts. If it becomes a problem, I see
               | both Mint and Pop easily switching to Debian.
        
               | suby wrote:
               | The Mint maintainers have Linux Mint Debian Edition
               | (LMDE), which is based on Debian and pretty similar in
               | functionality to the Ubuntu version though you do miss
               | some nice features (for example I don't believe the
               | driver manager is present in this version). They seem to
               | be hedging their bets for if they ever need to jump ship
               | away from Ubuntu.
        
               | agucova wrote:
               | Pop!_OS is much more than just reskinning Ubuntu.
               | System76 is even developing their own Rust-based desktop
               | environment [1].
               | 
               | [1]: https://blog.system76.com/post/more-on-cosmic-de-to-
               | kick-off...
        
         | s-daveb wrote:
         | There are now arch-based distros that are quick and easy to set
         | up, like Ubuntu. I'm currently running endeavourOS, and I am
         | eager to try Manjaro.
         | 
         | Don't be put off by the Arch-based nature of the OS - since
         | both Endeavour and Manjaro have installers, they bootstrap your
         | system's drivers, and all.
         | 
         | I've found maintenance to not be too overwhelming, and Arch's
         | wiki is top-notch. When I used other distros like Gentoo, I
         | sometimes found myself reacing the Arch wiki...
         | 
         | Package management isn't too different from using apt,
         | synaptic, or the app store if you use the right tools:
         | 
         | Command-line:
         | 
         | - Pacman: for precompiled official packages
         | 
         | - Yay : Automagically compiles community-ported third-party
         | applications
         | 
         | GUI:
         | 
         | - Pamac: Look it up - it's a lot like Ubuntu's "App Store"
         | 
         | The caveat here is that I'm an experienced Ubuntu/Debian user
         | that moved to Gentoo for a while.
         | 
         | While using Gentoo, I got tired of the systemd migration
         | nightmare and returned to Ubuntu to find the nightmare of Snapd
         | and poorly-sandboxed applications in their community repo.
         | 
         | I've only used Arch for about a month, but after using Gentoo
         | and Ubuntu, I think I'm staying here for a while. The kernels
         | are brand-new and the GPU driver performance is at least 2x
         | what I was getting in Ubuntu. With the derivatives, there's no
         | reason to bootstrap an Arch system from the kernel framebuffer,
         | like the olden days of Gentoo and Slack.
        
           | tomkarho wrote:
           | Arch itself has install script (archinstall) these days which
           | streamlines the install process a ton. Not sure how stable it
           | is though (I hear it is still considered experimental) but it
           | certainly made my recent install on my thinkpad a breeze.
        
             | jeroenhd wrote:
             | I used it, it makes the process a lot easier but it's still
             | not for the faint of heart.
        
         | arthem wrote:
         | I am in a similar positon, Ubuntu LTS being the only Linux
         | distro that I have ever used on my primary daily computer.
         | 
         | Will most likely move over to Debian instead of "upgrading" to
         | 20.04LTS.
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | I moved from Ubuntu 20.04 to Debian 11. No dramas, I won't be
           | able to tell the difference.
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | "Minimal fuss" has been an Ubuntu strength since the very
         | start. First it was the debian-sanity approach to a desktop
         | that worked just fine.
         | 
         | But LTS really helped keep fuss even lower. I remember buying
         | my first Ubuntu laptop from Dell in disbelief. No fuss, worked
         | for years, no issues.
         | 
         | Right now I gather Ubuntu has a lot of commerical runway and
         | partnership to leverage. Community runway is going to be
         | shorter but there are still (as I understand it) workarounds
         | for just about every significant issue people have with the
         | distro.
         | 
         | What's concerning is that workarounds are essentially the same
         | thing as fuss, for a lot of users out there.
        
       | oriettaxx wrote:
       | What they wrote is not correct:
       | 
       | "Individual users can get a token for up to 5 free machines"
       | 
       | since Ubuntu write[1]: "Free for personal use; Anyone can use
       | Ubuntu Pro for free on up to 5 machine "
       | 
       | [1] https://ubuntu.com/pro
        
       | re9 wrote:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34580360
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34600863
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34605980
       | 
       | queue the master dang and his ban-hammer to suppress that thread
       | also.
        
         | tarotuser wrote:
         | That's the problem: for those of us who run Ubuntu and related
         | (Xubuntu here), we found out about this by our regular
         | updating, and having apt give that rude message.
         | 
         | It's basically a "fuck you pay me" message, with the subtext of
         | "it'd be a shame if someone was to hack that vulnerable program
         | I just gave you"
        
       | f38zf5vdt wrote:
       | This is greater customer base suicide than the recent Netflix
       | policies. "Pay up or get hacked".
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | In 22.04 LTS, the updater shows "Livepatch" in that menu
       | position. Is that the same thing?
        
         | nubinetwork wrote:
         | I believe livepatch is a pro feature, but it's for reboot-less
         | kernel upgrades.
        
       | mardifoufs wrote:
       | I might be wrong but I think that's because the fix is directly
       | patched by the ubuntu security team, NOT by the upstream package
       | maintainer. That means they are providing their own patch, just
       | faster. If the package is updated upstream, you will be able to
       | get the update.
       | 
       | Also, ubuntu pro is free for up to 5 users so for most users this
       | is just a free additional feature. There's almost no downside
       | here, at worst you get the updates as quickly as you would in any
       | other distro. They also update packages that do not get upstream
       | support at all anymore, such as python 2.7. Which obviously
       | requires a lot of work directly from Canonical, so I don't really
       | get the reaction in the comments here.
       | 
       | This reddit comment explains it way better than I do:
       | 
       | >It is a bit more nuanced. These are not fixes by the package
       | maintainer or the community. Those you get regardless of Pro
       | status.
       | 
       | >Pro is for patches by the Ubuntu security team. And I understand
       | why they require an opt-in, as not everyone would want their
       | packages patched by Ubuntu (instead of waiting for an official
       | patch from the maintainer).
       | 
       | >So basically Ubuntu are giving you a new feature (that you won't
       | get at other distros, these are patches by Ubuntu themselves) for
       | free if you would like to opt in for it.
       | 
       | >They could have communicated it better, but the rage is
       | misplaced in my opinion.
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/10pqklh/canonical_t...
        
         | iso1631 wrote:
         | I haven't looked really closely so maybe I can, but when I've
         | looked in the past, I couldn't start an ubuntu machine on AWS
         | that's a "pro" version, at say 1c/hour ($87/year) or whatever,
         | on top of the x cents an hour I pay amazon for the machine.
         | 
         | Instead I have to raise a separate business case about why I
         | want to pay for support, manage a separate line item in my
         | budget, etc, etc, that's all tedious, so I don't bother.
        
           | mardifoufs wrote:
           | You are right, my comment wasn't completely accurate since I
           | forgot to mention that the free ubuntu pro plan is only for
           | personal use or for less than 5 devices. I don't think you
           | can get it working on a cloud instance even if you are
           | eligible for the free plan unless you manually install it on
           | a VM or something.
        
         | donmcronald wrote:
         | > There's almost no downside here, at worst you get the updates
         | as quickly as you would in any other distro.
         | 
         | There could easily be downside. It's free for 5 machines _for
         | now_. However, the big risk IMO is if relying on Ubuntu for
         | security patches becomes a normal thing.
         | 
         | In fact, it could even go as far as having Ubuntu make deals
         | with software developers to maintain security patches for
         | software past a certain lifecycle (ex: 2-3 years). By doing
         | that, Ubuntu could discourage projects from running their own
         | LTS programs and all of a sudden Ubuntu would become the only
         | viable LTS distro.
         | 
         | Open source means nothing. Whoever controls the development
         | effort is the one who decides how open software really is. If
         | Ubuntu manages security patches for all the LTS packages, the
         | only choice of LTS distro is Ubuntu and there's no way on earth
         | they'll keep any kind of significant free offer available if
         | that happens.
        
           | angry_moose wrote:
           | Yeah, the next step is "Sorry, you're only on Pro. This
           | update is only available for Pro++ subscribers or higher".
           | 
           | Creeping monetization always plays out the same way. Ease
           | people in, then squeeze them later.
        
         | whoisthemachine wrote:
         | Is it known if they submit the patches upstream? If not, that
         | seems borderline unethical to do so with security patches.
        
           | mardifoufs wrote:
           | That's a good question! I have no clue, but I know that they
           | also patch unsupported packages that probably aren't getting
           | updated anymore. I'm not sure how they assess which packages
           | are vulnerable but I guess some of them already have a fix
           | upstream that didn't go through the (debian or ubuntu) repo
           | maintainers yet.
        
       | tarotuser wrote:
       | The real problem is that Ubuntu is emitting knowingly vulnerable
       | software for free, and then flaunting "if you were part of our
       | pay-group, you'd get the security patches".
       | 
       | The ethical thing is to upstream the fixes, or quit transmitting
       | knowingly faulty and vulnerable software.
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | Is it still open source? Can I take the source of the "Ubuntu
         | fix" and upstream it?
        
         | mrdatawolf wrote:
         | So, if Gnome DE has a zero-day exploit Ubuntu should
         | immediately pull the Gnome Desktop until the upstream patches
         | it? Otherwise, it's not about ethics just time.
        
           | tarotuser wrote:
           | This isn't a binary answer, no matter how much you try to
           | cast it as one.
           | 
           | Software exploits are found regularly. But this is different,
           | with the fact that Ubuntu is peddling knowingly vulnerable
           | software, and then with the implicit threat of "Sure'd be
           | ashame if you were hacked by our software we know is
           | vulnerable... cause you didn't pay us for the fix".
           | 
           | I don't know the "best" course of action that applies
           | everywhere. In some applications, you take the chance until
           | the fix is out. Others, you take it down. And in others, you
           | throw on extra detections and remediations to impede the
           | attack. But you know this - you just wanted to get your one-
           | liner quip in.
           | 
           | Ubuntu put crap in the MOTD. They could have just as easily
           | made a RSS feed, and attach it to the security patches, and
           | alert users of impending "bad stuff down the pipeline". But
           | instead, they just SNAPify and shove more garbageware and
           | terrible decisions down the pipeline. Basically, Ubuntu is
           | the next case of Cory Doctorow's "enshittification" of
           | software and goods.
        
         | scott_w wrote:
         | As explained, this isn't what they're doing at all. They're
         | putting their own patches in, not withholding upstream patches.
         | 
         | If all they did was patch upstream, you'd have to wait longer
         | for the fix. I don't see how that solution is unambiguously
         | better.
        
           | tarotuser wrote:
           | Im well aware what they're doing, as I submitted this nearly
           | 2 days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34605980
           | 
           | Charging money isn't explicitly against the GPL, BSD, or
           | similar FLOSS licenses. However, are they doing what's
           | required of them with the licenses they're making changes to?
           | 
           | Better yet, are they submitting these fixes to the package
           | maintainers to fix? What would happen if *I* get this Ubuntu
           | Pro Plus Super crap, and download source, diff it, and submit
           | the diff?
           | 
           | Better yet, now that Ubuntu has a fiduciary reason to slow
           | down updates/fixes to Universe, are they going to impede
           | package security fixes and updates, as it now hinders their
           | revenue stream?
           | 
           | > As explained, this isn't what they're doing at all. They're
           | putting their own patches in, not withholding upstream
           | patches.
           | 
           | As explained, Ubuntu is providing knowingly security-
           | vulnerable software, and then as an upcharge offering their
           | own custom fix. There's plenty of ways to handle this, some
           | better and some worse. They chose worse.
           | 
           | > If all they did was patch upstream, you'd have to wait
           | longer for the fix. I don't see how that solution is
           | unambiguously better.
           | 
           | Again, they flagged vulnerable software. They could have
           | emitted a message via APT to warn of a security incident with
           | said software. Or they could remove it from the repo until
           | fixed, or hide it behind a flag with apt.
           | 
           | They instead chose to keep disseminating it, and then
           | gatekeep their fixes.
        
             | scott_w wrote:
             | > What would happen if _I_ get this Ubuntu Pro Plus Super
             | crap, and download source, diff it, and submit the diff?
             | 
             | If it's GPL or BSD then you're certainly welcome to submit
             | the patches if Ubuntu haven't. I don't know why you're
             | casting aspersions _without actually checking what they're
             | doing._
        
       | therealmarv wrote:
       | Can somebody tell me how it was before? Ubuntu Universe packages
       | were also maintained on best-effort on non-paid 5 year official
       | support before? I mean was something taken away or not on the
       | free version?
        
         | TingPing wrote:
         | You are correct, nothing was taken away. It is a different
         | structure than any other distro where:
         | 
         | A. Packages just get updates. B. The official repos are
         | entirely supported but smaller.
         | 
         | Ubuntu does the weird split of "It is official but we don't
         | support it". And now that they monetized it you are in a
         | situation where its easy to install something, because they
         | offer it, and then later they hold an update hostage.
        
           | therealmarv wrote:
           | If nothing was taken away (from before Ubuntu Pro) I'm
           | totally cool with it. Thanks for clarification.
        
       | whoisthemachine wrote:
       | Wow that's quite a shift.
        
       | oriettaxx wrote:
       | Note that the license for a server costs 500$/year, whatever the
       | number of CPUs (!) while the same license for an instance in
       | Amazon/aws will be cheaper (and the price vary with instance's
       | size).
       | 
       | Anyhow: as somebody already wrote, this will have AWS users move
       | to AWS linux
        
       | josephcsible wrote:
       | To summarize:
       | 
       | * You're running a version of Ubuntu that's still supported.
       | 
       | * One of the packages installed on your system has a known
       | security vulnerability.
       | 
       | * There's an updated version of the package available that fixes
       | the vulnerability.
       | 
       | * Since you're not subscribed to Ubuntu Pro, you're not allowed
       | to update to the fixed version.
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | I saw where one person had this experience:
         | 
         | * It's barely an issue: I registered with Ubuntu online and got
         | a free lifetime license for 5 machines, so it's no biggie.
         | 
         | I tried the same and got a minimum quote of $25 a year I think?
         | 
         | Has anyone figured out where this free option might be?
        
         | nubinetwork wrote:
         | If it wasn't bad enough that users are being used as guinea
         | pigs with their staged apt updates model... this really takes
         | the cake.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | Once again: If they weren't offering this, it wouldn't be
         | patched at all.
         | 
         | If they didn't have this, the security would be lower for
         | everyone.
         | 
         | They have not taken anything away from anyone here, they have
         | only provided extra services to people who pay.
         | 
         | They communicate this poorly, obviously. And it needs to be
         | made clear that they are not _withholding_ community patches,
         | only _contributing for a price_ priority patches to previously
         | community-only packages.
        
         | ergonaught wrote:
         | You missed
         | 
         | * There's an app in the Universe repository, which consists of
         | software that is not formally supported by Canonical at all,
         | which has security updates that are actually available from
         | Canonical if you're an Ubuntu Pro subscriber.
        
           | willtemperley wrote:
           | So do Canonical get there hands dirty at all and fix any
           | code, or is this straight-up gatekeeping?
        
             | Aflynn50 wrote:
             | This is Canonical getting their hands dirty and applying
             | their own patches faster than the package maintainers. If
             | the package maintainer release a patch then that is applied
             | like normal, no Ubuntu Pro required.
        
           | cma wrote:
           | I thought it is formally supported by Canonical, just not
           | without Pro. They said it used to be best effort but with Pro
           | it has an SLA right?
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | Does this mean you do get support for these packages if you
           | pay? Or are they still best effort?
        
       | _joel wrote:
       | Stopped using Ubuntu after this snapd malarky. Glad I did.
        
       | voakbasda wrote:
       | I think this new policy creates an escalated security threat.
       | Ubuntu is now effectively advertising which packages have
       | security issues. They have painted a clear target on their users,
       | when previously some work would be required to dig up the same
       | list of vulnerabilities. In other words, this new form of
       | advertising seems to actively help those who would do us harm.
       | This effectively makes Pro a protection racket.
        
       | davb wrote:
       | Aggressively pushed snaps. Apt and MOTD ads. And now this.
       | 
       | Look, I get it, no-one is entitled to free labour. But OSS runs
       | on goodwill. Canonical profited obscenely from the rich open
       | source community and diverse set of packages. And that's OK -
       | it's the nature of open source. They get to differentiate with
       | their orchestration tools and premium support. But the
       | expectation is that when it comes to security patches, we all
       | chip in, in the name of collective safety. If you've benefited
       | from packages being part of your ecosystem and you patch a
       | vulnerability, you contribute it back
        
         | jzb wrote:
         | "Canonical profited obscenely"
         | 
         | I have to challenge that. Their last revenue numbers that I can
         | find (2020) indicate a moderate profit on a headcount of about
         | 500 people.
         | 
         | They've _grown_ pretty well, but that 's not the same as
         | profited. Canonical targeted the gaps that Red Hat left when it
         | moved from Red Hat Linux -> Fedora / RHEL, and ate up a lot of
         | the Linux market and grew the pie a bit in terms of people
         | using Linux.
         | 
         | But Canonical has never been making money hand over fist. Their
         | finances aren't public but AFAIK they've largely been in the
         | red or breaking even. Their 2020 financial statement indicated
         | profit for 2020 but loss in 2019.
         | 
         | An interview with TechCrunch last year[1] suggested their
         | revenue was "$175m last year" -- that's a small fraction of Red
         | Hat's revenue and less than SUSE if I'm not mistaken.
         | 
         | Note I'm only responding to their push for Ubuntu Pro - if
         | they're also not pushing patches back upstream or playing games
         | like that, that's a different story. But that's not about
         | making them available vs. making them convenient.
         | 
         | [1] https://techcrunch.com/2022/04/21/canonical-now-hopes-to-
         | ipo...
        
       | hexis wrote:
       | "The mission for Ubuntu is both social and economic. First, we
       | deliver the world's free software, freely, to everybody on the
       | same terms. Whether you are a student in India or a global bank,
       | you can download and use Ubuntu free of charge." -
       | https://ubuntu.com/about
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | f38zf5vdt wrote:
         | Also Ubuntu:                   > Subscription  Quantity
         | Billing        Total         > Ubuntu Pro    1         Billed
         | Yearly  $500.00
         | 
         | https://ubuntu.com/pro/subscribe
        
           | severino wrote:
           | From your link, I can see it's $25/year for a desktop
           | computer, or $150/year with phone a ticket support. Where
           | does those $500 come from?
           | 
           | But also, I read here the other day you can get a free Pro
           | subscription for personal use, on up to 5 machines.
        
             | TingPing wrote:
             | $500 is for a physical server.
        
               | severino wrote:
               | Ok, I thought we were talking about desktop computers, as
               | the guy who posted this was using Ubuntu in a desktop.
        
             | mynameisvlad wrote:
             | The default option for me-- server with unlimited VMs-- is
             | $500/yr.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | Oracle Linux: Free
           | 
           | Redhat Enterprise self-support: $349/annum "Can only be
           | deployed on physical systems. Cannot be stacked with other
           | subscriptions. Is not intended for production environments.".
           | Doesn't come with 5 free installs!
           | https://www.redhat.com/en/store/red-hat-enterprise-linux-
           | ser...
           | 
           | SUSE: $799/annum with support.
           | https://www.suse.com/shop/server/#subnav
        
             | nubinetwork wrote:
             | > Oracle Linux
             | 
             | I wouldn't trust Larry not to sue you for the pleasure of
             | using their beloved products... Hard pass.
        
           | oriettaxx wrote:
           | and add another 100$ of VAT for an EU customer!
           | 
           | it really is a lot
        
             | dividuum wrote:
             | If you're a business, VAT doesn't matter.
        
         | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
         | Basically, "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" but in Linux flavor.
         | 
         | The best part of Linux is this is totally avoidable (less so if
         | you're in a strict corporate environment where Ubuntu is the
         | only option from IT)
        
       | baggy_trough wrote:
       | Ubuntu used to be a nice default distribution, but with the
       | hideous snaps and now apt spamming ads for a $500/box/year
       | subscription for security updates, it's getting pretty ugly.
        
         | donmcronald wrote:
         | > $500/box/year subscription for security updates
         | 
         | Wow. I completely missed that was _per year_. I thought it was
         | a one time purchase and thought that seemed a bit high. MS
         | sells Server Essentials for up to 10 cores for $500 and that
         | includes use on 1 VM as well AFAIK (don 't take that as
         | licensing advice).
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | agilob wrote:
       | As opposed to majority here, I think this is pretty good thing
       | worth paying for.
       | 
       | >Ubuntu pro reduces your average CVE exposure time from 98 days
       | to 1 day. In a
       | 
       | The 98 days is still better than on Windows.
       | 
       | > In addition, it includes expanded CVE patching, ten years of
       | security maintenance, optional support and operations for the
       | full stack of open-source applications.
       | 
       | This is should be really important for anyone who really cares
       | about their privacy and security. Looks like Ubuntu is providing
       | extra support, kind of like on-call for your desktop and server
       | security. Interested what their SLI and SLA are and how confident
       | UbuntuPro is they can maintain it for long.
       | 
       | This is definitely better than relying on community based distros
       | that can't release patched Chrome because 2 developers went on
       | holidays.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-02-02 23:02 UTC)