[HN Gopher] Instagram's co-founders are back with Artifact, a ki...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Instagram's co-founders are back with Artifact, a kind of TikTok
       for text
        
       Author : gwill
       Score  : 92 points
       Date   : 2023-01-31 16:19 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | AtlasBarfed wrote:
       | The future of social is fake people? I mean, they are right.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | Someday they'll cut creation out of the loop and just train a
       | model to consume your list of liked Tweets and generate more
       | tweetlike text objects that resemble them. Then you'll just an
       | endless feed of complete trash you can scroll down for the rest
       | of your life.
        
       | crossroadsguy wrote:
       | > A _personalized_ news feed _driven by artificial intelligence_
       | 
       | Right!
       | 
       | Then "enter your phone number".
       | 
       | These people are probably jumping on the next bandwagon? I
       | recently saw something like this -- I think it was post.news or
       | so. Is it a new trend these days?
        
         | EamonnMR wrote:
         | Post was a Twitter clone. Not a very good one either, I'm
         | afraid. Isn't Twitter tiktok for text already?
        
       | imaginationra wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | pryelluw wrote:
       | So, Reddit?
        
       | cyral wrote:
       | I'm going to go against the grain here and say that this isn't a
       | bad idea. Mobile Chrome has a similar feature that shows
       | recommended articles on the new tab page, and it is surprisingly
       | good at learning the topics you are into (from searches
       | obviously). I often find new and interesting articles on there,
       | similar to how TikTok manages to know what you like but also
       | tries to give you new topics occasionally. This could introduce
       | people to a lot of content that they otherwise wouldn't discover.
        
         | ghostly_s wrote:
         | I think calling it "TikTok for text" is the bad idea. Sounds
         | like it's focused on traditional long-form writing not short-
         | form content. The only part of TikTok they're trying to emulate
         | is a recommendation algorithm that doesn't suck (and which
         | every social media site should be trying to do).
        
         | leonidasv wrote:
         | I always get clickbait Medium articles and SEO garbage on my
         | Mobile Chrome homepage. There's interesting content sometimes,
         | sure, but the signal-to-noise ratio is very bad. I try to teach
         | the algorithm by dismissing those low-quality posts, but they
         | keep appearing.
        
       | oblib wrote:
       | I'm old, so maybe that's why I really can't see why we need or
       | would want a text based "TikTok".
       | 
       | EamonnMR already mentioned here "Isn't Twitter tiktok for text
       | already?"
       | 
       | I think he nailed it.
        
         | runevault wrote:
         | Which is funny because twitter bought and killed Vine which was
         | well on its way to be Tiktok before Tiktok.
        
           | oblib wrote:
           | That is funny!
        
           | theturtletalks wrote:
           | Remember when companies bought small start-ups to bolster
           | innovation instead of faltering it?
        
       | razzimatazz wrote:
       | How about just Hacker News, expanded with some machine learning
       | to determine the topics I would be interested in. My 'friends' or
       | connections don't supply me with nearly enough of the posts and
       | news items that catch my interest, whereas I trust HN to float up
       | things of interest (and not pure trash), so can I just base my
       | feed on your posts?
        
       | msikora wrote:
       | Wasn't this done already a few times? Mobile app only? Phone
       | number to sign up??? Like "TikTok"????
       | 
       | Hard pass...
        
       | rcarr wrote:
       | Over the past month I've started using RSS through a combination
       | of ReadKit and Feedibin for everything I possibly can. YouTube
       | videos, Reddit, Twitter, News Websites, Blogs, Newsletters. All
       | of it, RSS. And it is absolutely fucking awesome. Some pertinent
       | points:
       | 
       | - My news addiction has dramatically declined in less than two
       | weeks. I have a Feedbin action which automatically sets
       | everything from Reddit, Hacker News, and news websites as read. I
       | also utilise the Smart Folder functionality of ReadKit to exclude
       | the same websites from the Today folder. This means I can click
       | on these feed and have a look through it at my leisure but
       | there's no pressure to 'get caught up' on everything.
       | 
       | - As a result of the above, I am a lot more focussed and present
       | and I am getting more shit done. I am wasting way less time
       | mindlessly browsing low quality content and doomscrolling.
       | 
       | - I no longer have to deal with a bunch of ads, cookie requests,
       | email subscription popups and whatever else junk that is bringing
       | the internet to the point where it's unusable.
       | 
       | - Managing my email is now a joy. The only thing that goes there
       | is correspondence, invoices and important account information.
       | I've been unsubscribing to everything else as it comes in and
       | keeping subscriptions to the newsletters I want to keep using the
       | email address provided by Feedbin.
       | 
       | - I use hnrss to handle hacker news and have a feed set up for
       | replies to my comments which means I engage with people on this
       | site better. I also have Front Page, Ask HN, Best Comments,
       | Active etc all under one HN tag in Feedbin. I'm finding scrolling
       | through this a better experience than just checking the Front
       | Page, or the tabs separately.
       | 
       | - I'm reading way more varied and better quality materials from
       | individuals, blogs and specialist magazines rather than
       | mainstreams journalists pushing politics and agendas.
       | 
       | - As a result of all the above, the internet is FUN again. It
       | feels like I've time travelled back 20 years to when the internet
       | was full of unique and quirky webpages and you never knew what
       | you was going to find. In reality it's been there the entire
       | time, but social media, mainstream media, search engines and
       | other massive corporations have pushed it out of site and sent me
       | to sleep in order to earn money and purse their own agendas.
       | Well, I am awake again and I will not be going back. And
       | hopefully comments like this will help wake up others.
       | 
       | You have to spend a little bit of time setting everything up and
       | a few minutes each week tweaking things to keep it organised but
       | it is absolutely worth the effort and the extra cost for the
       | services.
        
       | forgetcolor wrote:
       | More accurate would be to call it TikTok for Links, not for text,
       | as text without links isn't allowed.
        
       | mfiguiere wrote:
       | ProductHunt page: https://www.producthunt.com/products/artifact-4
        
       | gwill wrote:
       | it's just a private beta currently(https://artifact.news/), but
       | i'm curious about details around privacy. I have a feeling that
       | given their success selling instagram to facebook they'd lean
       | into data harvesting. maybe i'm being pessimistic though.
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | Wow, another walled-garden mobile app to fill your screen with
       | algorithmically ordered blogspam.
       | 
       | The article says it's "like Google Reader" except for the part
       | where Google reader didn't take the liberty of filling your feed
       | for you.
        
         | jamiequint wrote:
         | What did you do this week?
        
       | ndneighbor wrote:
       | Return of the king vibes here :)
       | 
       | I am hoping this product really takes off. I do kinda see how
       | this can fit the niche of a social RSS + recommendations.
        
       | tchock23 wrote:
       | There is a YC startup named Artifact. I wonder if the founders
       | will defend the name like Instagram did with people using 'gram'
       | in their name. That would be some nice karma.
        
         | schmorptron wrote:
         | There is also a (failed) card game by valve software of the
         | same name.
        
           | TillE wrote:
           | I'm still baffled at how that game got almost rebooted and
           | then just abandoned. The game wasn't perfect, the business
           | model was a failed experiment, but it's something they
           | absolutely _could_ have built into something fun, instead of
           | flushing it all down the drain.
           | 
           | Online card games are huge. Valve was _almost_ there.
        
         | ipsum2 wrote:
         | There are 11 startups named "Artifact", and lots more with
         | Artifact in their name (e.g. Artifact Technologies)
         | https://www.crunchbase.com/search
        
           | tchock23 wrote:
           | Ahh nice catch. Didn't realize it was such a popular name!
        
       | phailhaus wrote:
       | > Artifact will also remove individual posts that promote
       | falsehoods, he says.
       | 
       | They just never learn. This will not scale! But they refuse to
       | hand over any control to users for choosing what they want to
       | consume, or providing negative feedback.
       | 
       | They're going to make the same mistake that all these platforms
       | have made, which is to treat all content as if it's in one giant
       | bag and hope they can ML their way through. There's no way to
       | subscribe to a "feed" of related content, so your best bet is to
       | follow some creators and hope that The Algorithm gets the
       | message. How do I choose that I want to read more about science
       | today? Or culture? Well, my only option is to hope that their ML
       | team is good enough to maintain a reasonable ontology of subjects
       | and good at classifying content automatically. But I'm completely
       | out of luck if I have niche interests.
        
       | oblib wrote:
       | "Tiktok for literate people?" got flagged?
       | 
       | Come on... that seems a bit heavy handed.
        
       | antipotoad wrote:
       | Having to give a phone number to join the waitlist is not so
       | nice. Can't think of any _good_ reason not to accept an email.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mcast wrote:
         | Why not? It allows the company to easily tailor its algorithms
         | and content towards a user's political/religious/geographic
         | views. Surely that would never be abused! /s
        
         | squokko wrote:
         | Easier for one person to spin up 1000 emails than 1000 phone
         | numbers.
        
           | taftster wrote:
           | Really? That's crazy. At least at one point, spinning up
           | phone numbers was significantly harder and much more
           | deterrent against account generators than was email
           | addresses. What has changed to make phone numbers easier to
           | generate and email addresses harder?
        
             | squokko wrote:
             | Yes I typed it backwards
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | jefftk wrote:
           | I think you mean the other way around?
        
             | squokko wrote:
             | Yes, edited
        
         | ro_bit wrote:
         | Luckily this seems to be one of the rare places on the internet
         | where a VOIP number works
        
       | mfiguiere wrote:
       | Kevin's announcement tweet:
       | https://twitter.com/kevin/status/1620466387063042048
        
       | shapefrog wrote:
       | Thats what kids want, more reading words.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Tiktok's features expand faster than other sites can copy them
       | (successfully at least). In the past few months image slideshows
       | (often heavy with text) have become a popular format on TikTok. I
       | see no reason why TikTok wouldn't be the TikTok for text.
        
         | claytonjy wrote:
         | If they get banned in the US that's a solid moat for Artifact.
        
       | yz_coding wrote:
       | Isn't this essentially TouTiao?
        
       | fatnoah wrote:
       | > The app uses algorithmic predictions, which Kevin Systrom sees
       | as 'the future of social.'
       | 
       | I see this as the anti-future. All I want from social (e.g.
       | Facebook and Instagram) is a chronologically ordered list of
       | things I chose to follow. That's it.
        
         | miloignis wrote:
         | That's what I want as well, and the Fediverse (Mastodon, etc)
         | and RSS seem like the main things that fit that criteria. I
         | don't use RSS for articles as much as I would like but I do use
         | it for podcasts, of course, and the fediverse has been a fun
         | experiment for me.
        
         | 65 wrote:
         | I want control over what I see.
         | 
         | Democratic design instead of authoritarian design is the future
         | of social media to me. I am long on Reddit because it allows
         | you to subscribe to specific subreddits. I am long on RSS -
         | which has seen a resurgence - because of the control it gives
         | you over what you see.
         | 
         | If only there was a "reddit for video" where I could see
         | categorized videos instead of the garbage the YouTube algorithm
         | gives me - of which I have almost no control over.
        
         | password1 wrote:
         | You know that joke that facebook is an over-engineered birthday
         | reminder app? I would make the point that social media are also
         | over-engineerd news feeds.
         | 
         | The vast majority of people get their news from some kind of
         | feed. Be it Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Twitter, whatever.
         | Scrolling a feed is what gets news to most people. I can see
         | the purpose of making an app that does just that, instead of
         | having to also live with 3000 social features i don't care
         | about (and all the noise and pointless posts they bring to the
         | feed).
         | 
         | I also don't agree on the chronologically ordered list of
         | things i choose to follow. I tried to do that and as soon as
         | you put any kind of news outlet it's going to flood your feed
         | of things you don't care about. I want to follow TechCrunch,
         | Ars Technica or The Verge, but you can be sure that I don't
         | want to see every article they post. I just want to have them
         | on my radar for that more noteworthy stories. And I also want
         | to discover new things, trending articles or topic that might
         | have nothing to do with what i specifically follow.
         | 
         | That's why i also go on HN or reddit for news, because there's
         | some kind of user curation where only the interesting articles
         | ends up on my feed. I get to disover things that i don't
         | already know and follow, plus i get curated news selection that
         | should filter the noise while letting me know what's the hot
         | topic of the week. But if the articles are selected by upvotes,
         | then we have echo-chambers and both this site, reddit or any
         | other social media are prime examples of this. You really get
         | only a narrow and often biased slice. An app whose sole purpose
         | is to give you news and articles you find interesting might
         | have an incentive to do so without trapping you in a filter
         | bubble. Or maybe not, only time will tell.
        
         | miamowers wrote:
         | I mean... isn't the solution just an RSS reader then? With like
         | a system to recommend feeds if you want to get real fancy.
        
         | cxr wrote:
         | > algorithmic predictions
         | 
         | So not an algorithm, then.
         | 
         | Sucks that even tech people are bandwagoning right along with
         | the popular media's corruption of the word so we're just saying
         | "algorithm" to describe the antithesis of the historical use of
         | that word.
         | 
         | <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_method#Definition>
        
         | boredumb wrote:
         | next the people will be asking to be able to right-click save a
         | random meme
        
         | jefftk wrote:
         | You might like Mastodon, then? That's exactly what it offers.
         | 
         | (That it only offers a chronological feed is the main thing I
         | don't like about it, to the point that I wrote my own client to
         | implement rudimentary prioritization)
        
         | dgb23 wrote:
         | RSS does that pretty well.
        
         | n0tth3dro1ds wrote:
         | That's cool. The engagement metrics show more usage and ad
         | clicks when the feed is ML-driven, so that's what they're gonna
         | give you. Thanks for playing.
        
           | tormeh wrote:
           | Agreed. One of my issues with Mastodon is that I cannot see
           | content from people I don't subscribe to. Even if all of my
           | follows like/favorite a toot, I won't see it. This is a
           | flawed design. This is the main reason Twitter is better than
           | Mastodon, IMO. It makes my Mastodon feed pretty calm, but it
           | also feels a bit dead, which makes me wonder why I opened the
           | app at all.
        
             | vonnieda wrote:
             | I don't think this is true. I see "Boosted" posts in my
             | feed from people I don't follow. Maybe this is a server
             | specific feature? I am using Hachyderm.io.
        
               | jefftk wrote:
               | This is a standard Mastodon feature. You will see post
               | that people you follow "boost", but not things they only
               | "favorite".
               | 
               | My understanding is that the Mastodon devs are trying to
               | separate "increase the distribution of a post" from "give
               | positive feedback to the post author".
        
               | micromacrofoot wrote:
               | yeah people can boost posts on mastodon (essentially a
               | retweet), but you don't see the asinine algorithmic
               | things like replies to people you don't follow (unless
               | you go look for them)
               | 
               | I _do_ like that there 's no reply component to boosts
               | though. You boost it up or not. No sniping.
        
             | egypturnash wrote:
             | I love this about Mastodon. I hated that Twitter showed
             | people who follow me what I was liking today, and I hated
             | that Twitter constantly showed me stuff people I followed
             | were liking.
             | 
             | If I want my followers to see something, I have to
             | consciously make a post that says "hey check out this
             | thing". It's great! I open Mastodon, look at what the
             | people I'm following are saying or pointing at, and then I
             | _close_ it and get on with doing something else instead of
             | spending half an hour being distracted by Shit Twitter
             | Thinks I Might Like.
        
           | ProAm wrote:
           | "When a measure becomes a target, it cease to be a good
           | measure."
        
         | jasmer wrote:
         | Devil's advocate, I'm going to guess you do not want exactly
         | that and you'd be happier with a quality alg.
         | 
         | There is far, far too much information out there, and the
         | things outputted from the things you follow is a 'decent start'
         | but it's not what you want.
         | 
         | Systrom is exactly right and better algs is what we need.
         | 
         | TikTok is a great social medial platform, it's fun, irreverent,
         | and the alg allows you to find niches in content that would not
         | exist otherwise. I've found this guy who does videos on his
         | sheep herding dogs, it's so fun to watch.
         | 
         | Applying a great filter to all of my youtube/news feeds is one
         | of the most meaningful ways to improve my content feed.
         | 
         | Yes - we want to make sure people have the option to follow
         | exactly what they want and hopefully to adjust the feed
         | parameters ... but I would love to get rid of the fuzz in my
         | feed.
         | 
         | This is decent innovation and it could affect a lot of people,
         | it's fine to be a bit sus but I don't think we should be
         | cynical.
         | 
         | You don't have to use it.
        
           | fatnoah wrote:
           | I guess this is my pessimism about an algorithm really ever
           | working well for me. On FB and other social sites, I'm
           | hesitant to engage any one-off content because my feed
           | becomes flooded with it. I guess if I had more fine-grained
           | control to say that I don't like something and WHY I don't
           | like it, I'd have more confidence that this could be useful .
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | Humans are for training
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | It depends on how they choose to tune their algorithms. If they
         | tune for "engagement" with an infinite scroll that the user
         | doesn't have any control over, then it's probably going to be
         | another thing that makes the world worse while making them
         | wealthier.
         | 
         | If they tune for quality, have a scroll that bottoms out when
         | the next article no longer meets some high bar, and gives the
         | user some control over the sources and presentation, then it
         | could be decent.
        
       | mbesto wrote:
       | > _TikTok's innovation was to show you stuff using only
       | algorithmic predictions, regardless of who your friends are or
       | who you followed. It soon became the most downloaded app in the
       | world.
       | 
       | Artifact represents an effort to do the same thing but for text._
       | 
       | Ummm, one huge glaring difference - TikTok's content is user
       | generated, Artifact's is not. Why this is being compared to
       | TikTok is beyond me...
        
       | galleywest200 wrote:
       | Cool -- how do I get my blogs to be picked up by their algorithm?
        
       | calo_star wrote:
       | Sounds like Xiaohongshu without pictures to me.
        
       | beauHD wrote:
       | Another reason to use RSS. I am skeptical of something whose
       | founders make money by mining users' data. This is yet another
       | attempt to mine your data and reading habits, and there's many
       | successful attempts at that already (Evernote, Pocket, Kindle,
       | etc). I'm tired of these apps who nose around in your reading,
       | and I don't care if it's powered by AI. AI will never replace the
       | serendipitous scrolling I do with my RSS client.
        
       | theGnuMe wrote:
       | Wasn't there a version of this in China that was the inspiration
       | for TikTok?
        
       | nikolay wrote:
       | There's Twitter. There's Tumblr. There's Gab. There's Truth
       | Social. There's Parler. There's GETTR. And we now have a decent
       | Mastodon! Enough is enough! Stop fragmenting!
        
       | jonathankoren wrote:
       | Bold move to get into news aggregation. Silicon valley is
       | littered with the carcasses of companies that's tried to make
       | that a business.
       | 
       | I'm not really sure enough people care to switch from their
       | existing de facto aggregators, to make it pay through
       | advertising. And news is a free commodity, so there's not much of
       | a reason for a user to pay for it.
        
       | asim wrote:
       | The feed is one of the most dangerous inventions of modern times
       | and now we're making it even more addictive. I really hope we
       | stop to think about this at some point and realise we need to
       | break away from this consumption format.
        
         | ericmcer wrote:
         | Do we do this with regulation? Or education? Trusting
         | businesses to not do whatever they can to make money isn't a
         | plausible strategy.
         | 
         | People who can avoid social media will surpass their peers who
         | are logging hours of mindless screen time. That will ultimately
         | encourage even more inequality as people (especially kids) who
         | aren't actively guided will easily fall into the social media
         | trap and get left behind.
         | 
         | Is the future just a bunch of narcissistic high achievers
         | accumulating more and more wealth over a bunch of perfectly
         | pacified low income workers?
        
       | vagabund wrote:
       | Purely algorithmic feeds work for TikTok because people want to
       | shut their brains off when they use the app. It's like a drink
       | after work. Copy-pasting that logic to longform text misses the
       | differences in the mediums, and how people interact with them.
       | 
       | When I'm reading, I'm trying to be thoughtful, not titillated.
       | And part of being thoughtful is consciously choosing what to
       | read.
       | 
       | One might say that sites like reddit and hacker news are just
       | archaic versions of the same recommendation engine, but the
       | friction is actually an important feature, and keeps the
       | experience from devolving into lowest common denominator
       | clickbait.
        
         | joegahona wrote:
         | Exactly. The comparison also ignores the distinction that
         | TikTok is user-generated, whereas this sounds like it's
         | leveraging publishers. This is an insanely crowded space with a
         | landscape littered with competitors: Apple News, Flipboard,
         | Post.News, SmartNews, and so on.
        
         | post-it wrote:
         | It could work really well for short-form text. I'm addicted to
         | reading comments. I even read your comment before reading the
         | article. A feed with short articles curated to my interests and
         | attention span would absolutely get me hooked.
        
         | doctorM wrote:
         | _One might say that sites like reddit and hacker news are just
         | archaic versions of the same recommendation engine, but the
         | friction is actually an important feature, and keeps the
         | experience from devolving into lowest common denominator
         | clickbait._
         | 
         | I'm not certain about this seems like it would depend on the
         | algorithm in question. In any case not certain I understand
         | exactly what the friction you're referring to is, and how it
         | helps devolution.
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | I used stumbleupon in the 0s and that was primarily blogposts
         | and writings. I don't see why an algorithm couldn't recreate
         | the stumbleupon experience.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _When I 'm reading, I'm trying to be thoughtful, not
         | titillated_
         | 
         | Twitter.
        
           | montagg wrote:
           | And TikTok. It really depends what Tok you end up on, but
           | there's plenty of corners of TikTok that are exactly the same
           | mechanics as Twitter: quick bursts of infuriation that
           | activate you and leave you wanting more. I think it's easier
           | for a video-based content network like this (these are not
           | social networks) to have content where you turn off your
           | brain, like TV, than it would be with text. But they both can
           | and are incentivized to do the same thing: titillate.
        
             | jamescostian wrote:
             | I'd argue that text has an advantage over video: speed of
             | skipping past content you don't want. People don't talk
             | anywhere near as fast as they skim headlines
             | 
             | You're right about turning off your brain. But not everyone
             | wants that thing turned off
        
           | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
           | To add:
           | 
           | > The app opens to a feed of popular articles chosen from a
           | curated list of publishers ranging from leading news
           | organizations like _The New York Times_ to small-scale blogs
           | about niche topics.
           | 
           | Not Twitter but many of these articles already have headlines
           | catered to a certain method of consumption (aggregation done
           | by Reddit, HN, etc.). I didn't need to read this article to
           | know that Instagram's co-founders are making TikTok for text!
        
           | vagabund wrote:
           | Twitter only works because of the character limit. And even
           | then the "for you" page is pretty bad and widely disliked, at
           | least as a stated preference.
           | 
           | This, if I understand correctly, is for articles.
        
         | raman162 wrote:
         | I would say that this can help with discovery of content that
         | you're interested in. Similar to hacker news, just an
         | alternative approach.
         | 
         | I'm interested to try it and have joined the wait-list. I'm
         | looking forward to how it differentiates itself from other
         | article curation apps (Feedly, Google news, etc.).
        
       | nfRfqX5n wrote:
       | interesting concept, but news? is that something people want more
       | of?
        
       | cloudking wrote:
       | Sounds similar to https://mywaverly.com/
        
       | hasbot wrote:
       | Meh, I'll stick with Reddit and HN.
        
       | toddmorey wrote:
       | I'm perhaps being a poor sport but                  - give away
       | my phone number        - for an AI content app        - described
       | as TikTok for text        - from the Instagram people        -
       | without even a screenshot
       | 
       | just all feels horribly unappealing. I don't know why people will
       | sign up, but I'm obviously not their audience.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | - who may well just sell out to Facebook again after a couple
         | of years[1]
         | 
         | [1] No shade - if Facebook offered me $billions for my user
         | generated content site, I'd be at the bank quicker than you
         | could imagine but I wouldn't expect anyone to trust me with
         | user content again.
        
           | makerofspoons wrote:
           | I don't think there's any love between Zuckerberg and
           | Instagram's founders: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features
           | /2020-04-07/zuckerber...
        
       | jollyllama wrote:
       | Great, more name collisions for "artifact repository", "artifact
       | generation", etc.
        
       | jwmoz wrote:
       | An algorithmic echo chamber.
        
       | goldenchrome wrote:
       | > and the collapse of Twitter under Elon Musk has created an
       | opportunity for a team with genuine expertise in this space to
       | take a run at text-based social networking again.
       | 
       | In what way has Twitter collapsed? This sounds highly political.
       | Which of course it is, because "a feed of text posts" is in no
       | way innovative. The innovation is in the selective censorship.
       | Orwellian.
        
       | nickrubin wrote:
       | Personalized news aggregators are "TikTok for text" now?
        
       | philip1209 wrote:
       | Consumer businesses are hard. Bootstrapping a network is hard.
       | Taking attention away from competing apps is hard. Dealing with
       | skeptics is hard.
       | 
       | Yet, this team is one of the few that have succeeded at all of
       | these challenges before.
       | 
       | I'm excited to watch how they build this business. Success is
       | uncertain, but observing their actions will be a case study in
       | growth tactics.
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | I agree. But I would like to add: ANY business is hard. Not
         | only B2C.
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | Are social media apps/platforms really B2C? Aren't they more
           | B2B?
        
             | hackitup7 wrote:
             | They're fundamentally B2C because the hardest part is
             | getting the consumer virality engine running. Once the
             | consumers are there, the B2B part (eg the ads engine) is
             | relatively easy. I won't say trivial, but I would guess
             | literally 2-3 orders of magnitude easier if you have a
             | large and engaged audience. B2C success is the rate-
             | limiting step.
        
               | mritchie712 wrote:
               | Agreed, the b2b part is simple. It's a lot of work, but
               | it's something you can hire people to do and follow a
               | playbook.
               | 
               | There's no playbook you can run to make a social app go
               | viral.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _fundamentally B2C because the hardest part is getting
               | the consumer virality engine running. Once the consumers
               | are there, the B2B part (eg the ads engine) is relatively
               | easy_
               | 
               | Social media is neither. Ben Thompson's aggregator aside
               | from the B2C/B dichotomy shines in this example. Snap and
               | Twitter notoriously struggled with ad sales, for example.
        
           | ericmcer wrote:
           | B2C is definitely a bigger technical challenge, B2B is a
           | sales challenge.
           | 
           | B2C people expect perfection for free and will balk at the
           | slightest complication.
        
       | recuter wrote:
       | I wish Andrew Mason would come back.
        
       | kyle-rb wrote:
       | This could be cool if they source articles and blog posts from
       | random places across the web, like StumbleUpon but with the
       | modern ML that "works scarily well". Could be great for
       | discoverability of smaller sites.
       | 
       | Hopefully at some point they'll let me sign up with an email
       | address though because I refuse to sign in with a phone number on
       | principle.
        
       | atonse wrote:
       | My apologies to the team who I'm sure worked very hard, for
       | sounding very sour. But I just had this visceral reaction to
       | this:
       | 
       | Come on guys, all of you smart people working at these places,
       | doesn't anyone want to tackle a problem that might actually be
       | difficult and meaningful to humanity rather than "how can I come
       | up with novel ways to get people to be stuck on their phones for
       | longer?"
       | 
       | Sigh, at least Google in its heyday created the moonshots and was
       | tackling real problems that mattered, self-driving, energy
       | generation, robotics. Not just regurgitating the same old tired
       | "___ but with text" "___ but with 6 second videos" ideas.
        
         | anonporridge wrote:
         | Judging by the emerging visceral hatred from society for people
         | like Bill Gates and Elon Musk who have that stated goal of
         | working to make a better world with their wealth and power and
         | make a better present and/or future for humanity, why bother
         | sticking your neck out like that?
         | 
         | Keep your head down and give the masses more of the opiate that
         | they keep demanding. /s
        
           | atonse wrote:
           | Even though I (and many others) have deeply respected Musk
           | for all that he's done the last decade, he's gone and screwed
           | it up with this idiotic distraction that is twitter. And in
           | the process he's totally messed up his legacy.
           | 
           | The visceral hate for Musk's actions in the past 6 months
           | feels warranted. I'm annoyed as a Tesla owner that he's
           | distracted with these silly things instead of staying his
           | original course. Meanwhile Tesla as a company has completely
           | stagnated.
        
         | stainablesteel wrote:
         | Actually, facilitating other people to communicate in novel
         | ways in turn facilitates more people doing difficult and
         | meaningful things across more mediums.
         | 
         | It may as well be an economic model because demand of
         | communication platforms is bringing out a supply of efficiency
         | and not just addiction.
         | 
         | If it's successful it's a net win.
        
         | tormeh wrote:
         | Allow me to be a bit nihilist: Nothing we do matters. In fact,
         | if you ask why enough you'll realize meaning has no definition
         | that is independent of an observer. So entertainment, as
         | something humans value in and of itself, is perhaps the most
         | worthy cause you can devote yourself to.
        
           | acchow wrote:
           | Perhaps some technology to help tackle some of the world's
           | human suffering instead?
        
             | moffkalast wrote:
             | Oh but we have the technology for that already. We can nuke
             | each other to extinction which may increase suffering
             | momentarily, but will reduce it to zero in the long run ;)
        
         | Gatsky wrote:
         | Bryan Caplan's advice:
         | 
         | "Stop paying attention to things that aggravate you unless (a)
         | they _concretely_ affect your life AND (b) you can
         | realistically do something about them. Start by ceasing to
         | follow national and world news."
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | to your point, i believe Google also funded 23andMe, which some
         | understandably view as amassing private genetic information but
         | which also surfaces huge-dataset-based actionable health
         | insights for those using the service.
        
         | nostromo wrote:
         | For all the hate Musk gets, I love that he really does take on
         | big problems. Gates too, obviously. I wish we had more
         | billionaires like them.
        
         | RC_ITR wrote:
         | It's interesting that you bring up Google, a company founded to
         | 'organize the world's information and make it universally
         | accessible and useful.'
         | 
         | Isn't that exactly what Artifact is doing (but instead of
         | rules-based search algorithms, it's using stochastic ML
         | models)?
         | 
         | Is the problem that they are comparing themselves to Tik Tok?
        
         | TechBro8615 wrote:
         | News consumption and news media in general is a major societal
         | problem right now. Building a new way of consuming news is not
         | as vapid a pursuit as it may seem at first glance.
        
           | atonse wrote:
           | And these guys are saying their app will identify
           | misinformation and encourage people to find good information?
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | That may be true, but going towards even faster news and
           | shortening our attention spans even more doesn't seem like
           | the step in the right direction. More like just exacerbating
           | the problem.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | EGreg wrote:
         | I have. I received mostly derision and apathy from 98% of
         | people
         | 
         | https://qbix.com/platform
         | 
         | https://intercoin.org/applications
         | 
         | https://rational.app
        
           | moffkalast wrote:
           | > tackle a problem that might actually be difficult and
           | meaningful to humanity
           | 
           | > posts a link to a crypto ponzi scheme
           | 
           | > mostly derision and apathy
           | 
           | Gee I wonder why.
        
             | EGreg wrote:
             | Can you please describe how the ponzi scheme works? Seems
             | you can just download open source software and use it
             | without buying any tokens... and even if you did buy
             | tokens, where is the ponzi?
             | 
             | Many startups are "almost" ponzi schemes, where money from
             | later stage investors keeps propping up a business that has
             | negative unit economics, offen no revenues. Twitter made
             | zero revenues when it was valued at $100M. Who paid the
             | bills? Twitter has been losing money when Elon's group
             | bought it. Who's paying the bills?
             | 
             | On the other hand I am giving away software for free, that
             | took 4 years to write, that I paid hundreds of thousands to
             | a team I work with, and took jobs to do it. I give it away
             | for free, you don't even LOOK at it and call it a ponzi.
             | 
             | Yep, my description is accurate. The grandparent commenter
             | asked:
             | 
             |  _doesn 't anyone want to tackle a problem that might
             | actually be difficult and meaningful to humanity rather
             | than "how can I come up with novel ways to get people to be
             | stuck on their phones for longer?"_
             | 
             | This is why. Capital talks. And capital is invested mostly
             | in bullshit that can produce hype, not open source software
             | that can change the world. I give it away for free and
             | people can't be bothered to look unless there is hype
             | around it first. You have your answer right here.
        
           | miamowers wrote:
           | Making my cursor constantly emit particles creates a visceral
           | disgust in me, so like, stop that, and maybe you'll get a
           | better response
        
         | RGamma wrote:
         | Yet another example that smart =/ wise.
        
       | sethd wrote:
       | Hopefully we haven't entered a "TikTok for X" phase in tech
       | journalism.
        
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