[HN Gopher] Is AM radio dead?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Is AM radio dead?
        
       Author : HieronymusBosch
       Score  : 108 points
       Date   : 2023-01-31 15:45 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
        
       | at_a_remove wrote:
       | Well, he's in St. Louis and it isn't doing well there.
       | 
       | 1430 AM ("The Crazy Q") was the last bastion of oldies in the
       | 50s, early 60s sense. Its license, as well as a few others, were
       | held by a man who was a convicted felon and apparently that's a
       | no-no. Anyway, it folded and that was that.
       | 
       | I dig around and there's just not much else I can find on the AM
       | band aside from talk, some kind of Catholic radio, sports ...
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | I would like to see a "national public" satellite radio. Pump the
       | National Weather Service and another channel or few with public
       | domain entertainment on it, to get people to buy them (eg. Eton
       | radios) and chuck them in the closet for a severe weather or
       | disaster event.
       | 
       | I understand the science decently, but I don't understand the
       | economic feasibility. I assume if it were feasible, it would have
       | been done by now.
       | 
       | But it seems like something that will become more economically
       | feasible in the near future as space transport progresses.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | One of my hobbies is listening to Yankees games on my old wooden
       | tube radio from the 20s. It's alive for me!
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | I would love to see AM radio opened up to private citizens. Take
       | podcasting and move it to AM radio, where a person can pay or
       | subscribe to a frequency and broadcast on it. Not so much as a
       | corporation but something easier, cheaper, and more accessible to
       | average citizens. Maybe that's a recipe for disaster but it's an
       | idea..
        
       | skedaddle wrote:
       | I've been listening to AM broadcasts a lot over the last few
       | months. I can get good reception from 2-3 local stations on my
       | crystal set. One gives me state and national news, interviews,
       | the weather; useful stuff. From the other I've learned a lot
       | about aliens, nutrition, debt and debt consolidation, Gray Man,
       | World War III, psychedelic drugs, skinwalkers, Christian dating
       | situations (ex: non-abstinent partners), the holiday/inflation
       | deals on Smith & Wesson steel, various troubling situations
       | involving Biden and his son...
       | 
       | What else. I don't know, I learn so much from my radio that it's
       | hard to keep track! And it's so much more engaging than your
       | typically maybe-just-as-sane Netflix documentary with its jarring
       | interview style. The AM hosts actually let their guests talk,
       | uninterrupted, and at length, so you can hear what their points
       | are in the way that they meant to say it. The other night a
       | caller phoned into this expert cryptozoological guy they were
       | interviewing and related how a canid, "too big to be a dog but
       | too small to be a wolf", planted itself on the road in front of
       | his truck before morphing into a woman before him (at night!).
       | And he and this doctor they had as a guest were able to work
       | through the experience on the spot; it wasn't some high
       | production story that cut back and forth through irrelevant fancy
       | stuff for 20 minutes before finally explaining what the guy saw.
       | 
       | I'm only partly being tongue in cheek... This is how "information
       | diet" + learn more about radio new years resolutions have been
       | working out for me. All this crazy stuff has replaced the social
       | media and news/opinion drama I would get wrapped up on before.
       | It's free, actually enjoyable (because of the radio projects, not
       | the broadcasts), mildly to thoroughly amusing (because of the
       | broadcasts), and the insanity is gone as soon as I take the
       | headset off. It should get better soon as well. I'm going to
       | build an FM receiver next, and I hear they still play music on
       | those channels!
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | The "Divided Dial" series (six parts) from WNYC's On the Media
       | does an excellent job of detailing how and why radio in general
       | (both AM & FM bands in the US) has come to be both so
       | concentrated (in ownership) and divided (in content and
       | audience). Both ... portend poorly.
       | 
       | The full series, with both audio and transcripts, is here:
       | <https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/divided-dial>
       | 
       | Doc Searls, an old radio hand himself, often writes about the
       | topic, though concentrating more on infrastructure than business
       | or culture:
       | 
       | <https://blogs.harvard.edu/doc/category/broadcasting/>
       | 
       | I'd argue that AM radio, much as with FM and over-the-air
       | television, is fading fast, _especially_ in urban regions in
       | which broadband Internet and cable programming offer far more
       | attractive options. For myself, I find I 'm listening to podcasts
       | far more than informational radio (though I'll listen to some
       | music programming) over the air --- it's convenient, and has very
       | little advertising. Less than the nominally noncommercial public
       | broadcasting alternative.
       | 
       | But in rural regions, where markets are sparse, AM's range still
       | pulls in what few people there are, and motivated and ideological
       | ownership often drives content, radio remains a potent force. The
       | OTM series gives strong insights into those dynamics.
       | 
       | (The series was mentioned downthread by danielodievich:
       | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34602095>)
        
       | nightowl_games wrote:
       | In rural Saskatchewan, where I am from, farmers listen to AM
       | radio literally all day long because they don't get good FM
       | reception. It's too sparse and the demographic is too non-
       | technical to even know what Spotify is.
        
       | supernova87a wrote:
       | I have been curious about why AM stations exhibit the demographic
       | effect you see (in terms of programming, station ownership, etc).
       | 
       | Is it because of something to do with the licensing of the
       | spectrum, and the cost of buying that? Or because of the
       | restrictions around broadcasting (content and distance) of any
       | given station? Or the cost of equipment to operate?
       | 
       | So interesting that something about how the domain operates that
       | creates a different dynamic of what you hear on the radio in AM
       | vs. FM.
        
         | danielodievich wrote:
         | The Divided Dial from On The Media
         | https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/divided-dial would be
         | a fantastic - if somewhat lengthy - answer to your question.
        
           | supernova87a wrote:
           | Thanks!
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | A strong second to that recommendation. Excellent series.
           | 
           | I'll also note that there are transcripts for all five, er,
           | six, episodes, if that's your jam.
        
             | supernova87a wrote:
             | Thanks!
        
       | TheAdamist wrote:
       | My city has a newsradio AM station that's still doing well and
       | lots of people listen for the traffic reports, but they started
       | simulcasting on FM as well recently to futureproof themselves.
       | The FM signal has far better sound quality of course but thats
       | not really necessary for news reports. But the AM signal can
       | frequently be heard when the FM is completely lost to
       | interference.
       | 
       | I dont know of any other big am stations, my car has separate
       | presets per band, so newsradio is permanently on for the AM
       | signal and their FM is frequently on the fm preset.
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | AM is not dead, if you've ever lived or visited outside of the
       | big metropolitan areas. It's normal to have a radio on the
       | kitchen counter tuned to the local station, for gossip, local
       | news, talk, and ads that are actually relevant to you.
       | 
       | .. and of course, baseball.
        
         | classichasclass wrote:
         | Even in the big areas. KFI-AM and KNX-AM are still huge in Los
         | Angeles, for example. Both have FM simulcasts but I've gotten
         | KFI-AM in Arizona and Nevada no trouble, and the KNX FM
         | simulcast in particular has odd coverage gaps.
         | 
         | The counterexample in LA is KABC-AM which is a shadow of its
         | former shelf.
        
         | throw0101c wrote:
         | > _AM is not dead, if you 've ever lived or visited outside of
         | the big metropolitan areas._
         | 
         | Decent amount of AM in Toronto, Canada. Mostly talk shows and
         | lots of sports broadcasts/discussions. 680 is handy for
         | news/weather/traffic as their format is to do a 'loop' of major
         | topics over a period of 30 minutes.
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFTR_(AM)
         | 
         | 1010 also broadcasts on shortwave to be able to hit cottage
         | country:
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFRB
         | 
         | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottage_country
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | In Greater Toronto area, I like 1150AM which used to be
           | sports station (opex galore) (and an oldies/community radio
           | station before that), but in a cost-saving measure, now just
           | simulcasts a subscription (!) business news TV station (BNN
           | Bloomberg).
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | There's a lot of angry shouting shows on AM radio.
        
         | walthamstow wrote:
         | Is AM a genre of radio or a transmission method, or both?
         | 
         | This kitchen radio is common too in the UK but the radio would
         | be FM at the least, more likely DAB these days. BBC Radio 4 or
         | '5 Live' nationally and the BBC have dozens of local radio
         | stations all over the country. All talk, no music.
        
           | svachalek wrote:
           | Kind of both. It's a transmission method (amplitude
           | modulation) that's very lo-fi which leads to it rarely being
           | used for music, which dominates other radio. So it ends up
           | being talk shows, sports, news, traffic reports, etc.
        
             | bityard wrote:
             | "very lo-fi" is pretty relative... FM offered higher
             | quality audio, but that came mostly from the fact that it
             | was not as prone to interference. (And yes, it was stereo
             | instead of mono, but I think stereo AM became a thing
             | eventually.) Other than that, if the station you were
             | listening to was not far away, there wasn't really any
             | difference in perceptible quality _if_ you had a decent
             | receiver and antenna, which most people didn't. It was
             | cheaper and easier to make an FM radio that sounded good
             | compared to AM.
             | 
             | If you tool around the HF ham bands at night, sometimes you
             | will catch a couple of hams conversing in AM near the top
             | of 40 meters. The ones that have spent some time tweaking
             | their audio and transmitter sound like they're sitting
             | right next to you. Very crisp and clear, especially next to
             | single side-band!
        
           | DaiPlusPlus wrote:
           | One leads from the other: the nature (transmission range,
           | operational costs, and quality... or lack there-of) of AM
           | radio in North America led it into rural-focused, talk-only
           | (and eventually "conservative") programming - and sports
           | (just like how BBC Radio 5 is also AM, not FM).
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | AlbertCory wrote:
           | If you really want to jump into the time machine, rent the
           | movie "American Graffiti."
           | 
           | When _all_ they had was AM, that was the social network for
           | teenagers.
        
             | ElevenLathe wrote:
             | First you'll need to navigate the time machine to the video
             | rental store.
        
               | AlbertCory wrote:
               | Maybe you've heard of renting movies from Amazon? It's
               | all the rage.
        
           | pea wrote:
           | 5 live is actually AM-only (outside of DAB) and is really the
           | only time I listen to AM (in the car when football is on
           | etc.)
        
           | jeffdubin wrote:
           | If you want to get a feel in real-time, visit a site offering
           | WebSDR[1]. Look for a receiver in the US and tune between
           | 530-1700KHz in AM mode. Note that reception will vary based
           | on time of day [2].
           | 
           | [1] http://websdr.org/ is a good place to start
           | 
           | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station
        
       | Kajayacht wrote:
       | I listen to political talk radio on AM, even though it simulcasts
       | on FM, all the time for a few reasons.
       | 
       | 1. Signal strength is much more consistent and further reaching.
       | 
       | 2. I don't have to worry about my wife changing the station on
       | the AM radio in the car. The FM radio could be set anywhere, but
       | when I'm driving I just change it to AM and there's my station.
       | 
       | 3. There's a "je ne sais pas" factor in the fuzziness and
       | softness of the audio that I find pleasant and less harsh than
       | what you get with talk radio on FM. Maybe for the same reason
       | people like the sound of vinyl records, though I'm not into
       | vinyl.
        
         | gwd wrote:
         | > "je ne sais pas"
         | 
         | "Je ne sais quoi", perhaps?
         | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/je_ne_sais_quoi
         | 
         | "Je ne sais quoi" means "I don't know what"; "Je ne sais pas"
         | just means "I don't know".
        
         | taftster wrote:
         | re: #3
         | 
         | I agree with you. There's something about the aesthetics of AM
         | radio that favors talk radio. In a former life, I would listen
         | to a lot of political talk radio (from a few major brands), and
         | switching over to listen to them in FM just wasn't the same. I
         | preferred listening on AM.
         | 
         | There's also something about the sound of AM that is somehow
         | nostalgic and reminds me of taking long road trips cross-
         | country in lowly populated west or mid-west states with my
         | grandparents. The "reach" of an AM station somehow connects
         | with me and the impression on me will unfortunately die with my
         | generation; at least, I know my kids have no consideration for
         | AM radio, or radio at all for that matter.
        
       | jossclimb wrote:
       | Not when you're at everest base camp and listening to the BBC
       | world service.
        
       | ajross wrote:
       | I want to hear the technical side here. So, sure, AM radio is
       | fading. But audio content delivery is alive and very active. So
       | in practice everyone will just move over to podcasts and it'll be
       | fine.
       | 
       | But what happens with the spectrum if we just turn it off? The
       | ~1MHz band is basically useless to digital transmission. There's
       | not enough (literal) bandwidth to put anything modern on it, and
       | the transmission characteristics lack the ionospheric reflections
       | of short wave, so it's only a to-the-horizon kind of thing
       | anyway.
       | 
       | So do we just turn it off? Is there anything useful to do with
       | it? Or is there interesting astronomy we could do without the
       | interference?
       | 
       | Maybe the reason AM radio continues limping along is that there
       | really aren't any takers and this is just junk spectrum?
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > So in practice everyone will just move over to podcasts and
         | it'll be fine.
         | 
         | Podcasts and radio are very different mediums. I don't think
         | one adequately replaces the other.
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | Not all applications require a lot of bandwidth.
        
         | WorldMaker wrote:
         | 1 MHz doesn't give a lot of room for frequency hopping and
         | frequency modulation, but that doesn't stop it from being
         | useful for digital transmission. You can still transmit zeroes
         | and ones with amplitude modulation. (The hybrid HD radio tried
         | that, though few Americans bought into that.) The biggest
         | problem with that from micro-usage of the spectrum by personal
         | devices is interference and error correction, but we're doing a
         | veritable ton with Bluetooth today in one of the noisiest and
         | easily interfered with bands in current regulation so there's
         | certainly ideas out there to try.
         | 
         | That said, there's also probably nothing wrong with leaving
         | spectrum quiet. We don't need to fill every band possible of
         | the electromagnetic spectrum with digital noise, despite how
         | hungry our devices seem for additional bandwidth.
        
       | djhworld wrote:
       | The article/video mentions Tesla - curious to know if other EVs
       | have omitted the AM radio from the car, or have worked around the
       | inteference issues
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | Nissan Leaf here. AM radio works fine.
         | 
         | Given that Tesla will add it for a fee(and older Teslas had
         | it), I presume its removal is not technology-related.
        
         | vel0city wrote:
         | Apparently Ford is starting to remove them from their EVs due
         | to struggles related to interference. I don't listen to AM that
         | much in my EV (Mach E) but the few times I have tried it seemed
         | to work acceptably.
        
         | simplyaccont wrote:
         | it's gone from Volvo and I think some other cars as well (like
         | BMW, Audi, etc)
        
       | vel0city wrote:
       | I've heard the comment of HD Radio being a failure multiple
       | times. Personally, it doesn't seem to be true to me, as the
       | majority of my radio listening happens on receivers with HD Radio
       | on stations with HD Radio. I didn't even go out of my way to make
       | sure I bought just the right trim of a car with HD Radio or an AV
       | receiver with HD Radio, it just had it. Most of the radio
       | stations in my market offer HD Radio and several have multiple
       | subchannels. A few of my go-to stations are HD Radio subchannels
       | as those often are operated with minimal to no advertisements
       | (usually just self promotion and station ID).
       | 
       | I realize HD Radio is pretty much US-only, but am I seemingly the
       | only one actually using HD Radio?
        
         | vermilingua wrote:
         | Is HD Radio equivalent to DAB+? If so, it's alive and well in
         | Australia (insofar as radio is alive and well)
        
           | vel0city wrote:
           | Yes, HD Radio is what the US went with instead of DAB/DAB+.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | Though transmitter and receiver hardware is entirely
             | incompatible, so an imported car or radio from the
             | EU/Australia would not be able to tune in any HD Radio
             | signals.
             | 
             | Even today, not all brand new cars and replacement head
             | units include HD Radio tuners--many are still analog AM/FM
             | only. Pair that with most cars and trucks on the road not
             | being brand new, and market penetration is very low outside
             | of people who bought the right new cars in the past few
             | years.
             | 
             | Many (but not most--yet) stations which launched HD signals
             | in the past decade have since switched them off to give
             | more bandwidth back to the analog signal, and to avoid
             | ongoing HD licensing fees.
        
         | taftster wrote:
         | I don't listen to the radio much anymore (work-from-home keeps
         | me off the road, which is where I'd normally listen to radio).
         | 
         | But I am with you, I have found the HD sub-channels to be very
         | palletable to listen to compared with the main channels. Even
         | NPR is getting hard to listen to, but some of the alternative
         | HD channels are quite enjoyable, especially for "unpopular"
         | genres like folk, bluegrass, original (roots) country,
         | Americana, 40's/50's, etc.
         | 
         | I don't think it's a failure. Maybe it's a failure of
         | monetization, but I think it's a success in terms of content
         | availability and lack of advertisements.
        
         | abawany wrote:
         | I had a Pioneer car stereo with HD Radio available and I
         | listened to it a lot, especially since a lot of the channels on
         | there seemed to be free of ads. Once that stopped, the car
         | stereo got updated to a AndroidAuto/AppleCarplay-capable device
         | and I was no longer listening. So yes, you weren't the only one
         | for a while but you may now be :) .
        
       | lormayna wrote:
       | Let's hope that DRM (https://www.drm.org/) will replace AM. At
       | the moment, the big issue is the lack of cheap receivers.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | I dunno. The disaster that was the switch to digital TV
         | broadcasting makes me leery of this.
        
       | ridgeguy wrote:
       | AM radio helped kindle my lifelong interest in technology and
       | music.
       | 
       | Grew up in Alaska in the '50s. When I was 8, my Dad bagged me
       | some old headphones, wire, a variable capacitor and one of those
       | new-fangled 'diode detectors' from a friend at Elmendorf Air
       | Base.
       | 
       | Much coil winding and fiddling later, I was able to hear KOMA in
       | Oklahoma, a great rock station. KOMA Klimbers!
       | 
       | Nowdays, I find AM content distasteful in the extreme, hardly
       | ever listen. But fond memories of an early influence.
        
       | colordrops wrote:
       | It will be once all cars are EV. The noise generated by the
       | motors will make it infeasible.
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | It's not infeasible (Tesla vehicles used to have AM radios). My
         | EV has an AM radio. It works.
        
       | daveslash wrote:
       | Invoking Betteridge's law of headlines: _" Any headline that ends
       | in a question mark can be answered by the word no."_
       | 
       | AM may have it's technical limitations, specifically when
       | compared to FM, but as a medium it's not dead and I doubt it's
       | about to be anytime soon. It's still very popular amongst
       | political talk, at least here in the U.S.
       | 
       | Edit: spelling
        
         | Mattasher wrote:
         | That may be true, but as anecdota I had a show on one of those
         | talk stations just a year ago. They broadcast on 2 frequencies
         | on the FM dial, covering a wide geographic range.
        
         | WaitWaitWha wrote:
         | In my experience, talk and even music on AM radio in Africa is
         | used more then FM. I believe this is because the cost
         | associated with AM equipment costs, and the distances AM can
         | cover.
         | 
         | I can get an AM signal in the middle of nowhere with a diode
         | and a bunch of wires.
        
       | lambic wrote:
       | I happened to listen to this podcast this morning which has some
       | interesting things to say about this topic:
       | 
       | https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-divided-dial/
        
       | CharlesW wrote:
       | I've never listened to AM radio on purpose, and I'm not young.
       | From what I've heard, it's a content desert that consists
       | primarily of religious/crackpot programming. As fewer and fewer
       | new cars support AM1, the writing is on the wall, and there
       | should be concrete plans to reallocate that spectrum for
       | something more useful.
       | 
       | 1 https://www.thedrive.com/news/heres-why-some-automakers-tune...
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | > it's a content desert that consists primarily of
         | religious/crackpot programming.
         | 
         | There's quite a lot of that stuff -- but it's not the only kind
         | of programming in the dial.
        
         | daveslash wrote:
         | The only time that I've actively listened to AM purposefully
         | (other than curiously "just to see what's there") is AM 1610.
         | [0]. 1610 is often used in the US for Visitor Information --
         | short 3-10 minute recordings on automated loop [1]. I find them
         | useful when visiting a new park for the first time, and before
         | I stop in the visitor center.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1610_AM
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelers%27_information_stati...
         | 
         | [2] Yellowstone National Park 1610 recording.
         | https://www.nps.gov/media/video/view.htm?id=E4A26B7F-1DD8-B7...
        
           | generj wrote:
           | As a kid, my parents got me a cheap AM transmitter toy that
           | broadcast on 1610.
           | 
           | Cutting edge tech in the early aughts, it ran on AA batteries
           | and had a tape player, a microphone, and an aux in. My
           | broadcasts made it across the cul-de-sac from my room. It was
           | immensely enjoyable.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | This is a great use of radio, thanks for pointing it out.
        
         | WaitWaitWha wrote:
         | I listen to AM radio for car repair, cooking tips & recipes,
         | music, weather, latest news, sports, and much more.
        
           | Arrath wrote:
           | You seem like the right guy to ask: Is there a modern edition
           | of Car Talk? I miss those guys so much.
        
             | btgeekboy wrote:
             | Ask the A&Ps is a podcast that's a pretty similar concept
             | but for general aviation.
        
             | WaitWaitWha wrote:
             | Ah! Just posted about Click & Clack.
             | 
             | I have heard some here and there, but nothing close to
             | them. :'(
             | 
             | I have heard a station in California (do not know call
             | sign), the motor man, or the motoring man. There was also
             | in Detroit a station where two guys tried to pick up
             | similar like C&C, car show or something.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | This is really interesting, and also very foreign to me given
           | that all of this is available on-demand in any form you like
           | (i.e. YouTube videos for car repair). Do you happen to be a
           | trucker? I'm trying to imagine the scenario where AM radio
           | specifically is the best way to deliver this content.
        
             | WaitWaitWha wrote:
             | Not a trucker. there are some areas where data is not
             | available. In some countries I use pre-paid mobile phones.
             | I turn off data in those places.
             | 
             | I (try to) walk at least an hour a day. I also hike trails.
             | Ever seen a bear wait for Click and Clack[0] demonstrating
             | the noise a worn CV join makes? Nor have I. ;-)
             | 
             | I have several hobbies which involve manual labour, but no
             | major attention required (weeding, kneading, etc.). I can
             | listen to the radio and still enjoy my hobby.
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Talk
        
             | patrick451 wrote:
             | The problem with on-demand is that it takes time and energy
             | to go actually demand it. With radio, if you are working in
             | the garage or garden or on a jobsite, you just tune into
             | some station, and you get guys talking about fixing cars or
             | something and that's it. With youtube or spotify or
             | whatever, you have to go search for something interesting,
             | it lasts for 15 minutes, and then you have to search again.
             | Or maybe you get a podcast that last an hour. But it's
             | never set and forget like radio. It's all just a waste if
             | time unless you have something very specific you want to
             | hear, rather than just background chit chat.
        
       | D13Fd wrote:
       | I'm no expert, but it seems like that mid-frequency part of the
       | spectrum could be put to much better uses.
        
       | User23 wrote:
       | Not at all. AM radio is where I get all my great financial tips
       | on Gold, REITs, and vitamin supplements!
       | 
       | More seriously, the clear-channel license holders are still a big
       | deal. It's pretty amazing to be able to cover half the country
       | from one transmitter. WSM out of Nashville is still relevant for
       | example.
        
       | LinAGKar wrote:
       | Is AM radio a US-only thing? Because I've never heard anything
       | broadcast on AM here is Sweden.
        
         | Centrino wrote:
         | AM radio (called "medium wave radio" in Europe) is still used
         | in Eastern Europe, the UK, Spain etc.
         | 
         | The last AM broadcasts in Sweden stopped in 2010, see
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B6lvesborg_medium_wave_tr...
         | 
         | For a full list of AM radio stations in ITU region 1, see
         | https://www.mwlist.org/mwlist_quick_and_easy.php
        
         | kypro wrote:
         | We have it in the UK. The BBC still broadcast on it (at least
         | they did last time I tuned in). I believe there are some sports
         | stations who use it too. My dad would listen to cricket on it
         | in the car all the time when I was a kid.
        
         | xxr wrote:
         | Not US-only, but it appears that Sweden is indeed one of the
         | countries that no longer supports it:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_wave#Use_in_Europe
        
         | 112233 wrote:
         | Shortwave on plain consumer radios is AM. A lot of stations
         | there, a lot of them from China.
        
       | BeetleB wrote:
       | > On the other, companies like Tesla stopped shipping AM radio
       | entirely, and if you want to add it on, they'll gladly retrofit
       | your EV for $500.
       | 
       | Reason #27 for not buying a Tesla. When you're on the highway and
       | see the flashing lights saying "Tune to 520 AM for adverse road
       | conditions" what are you going to do?
        
         | buildsjets wrote:
         | The same thing I've done when I've seen such a sign at any time
         | in the past 52 years. Completely ignore it.
        
           | BeetleB wrote:
           | Let me give you a real scenario. I was entering a
           | hilly/mountainous region, and the sign said "Tune in to AM
           | 520 for rock slide information when lights are flashing" and
           | the lights were flashing. You're just going to ignore that?
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | > Reason #27 for not buying a Tesla.
         | 
         | It's not a Tesla thing, really, it's an EV thing. You'll have
         | to stick with ICEV for the foreseeable future if you need
         | access to AM. The electric motors cause a lot of interference.
        
         | jdminhbg wrote:
         | > When you're on the highway and see the flashing lights saying
         | "Tune to 520 AM for adverse road conditions" what are you going
         | to do?
         | 
         | Look at Waze to see what's actually happening, like I always
         | do.
        
           | BeetleB wrote:
           | Usually these signs are on interstates in the middle of
           | nowhere (e.g. mountain/forest/desert). It's not unusual not
           | to have a signal.
           | 
           | And frankly, even if you did have a signal, it's not likely
           | Waze will be of much help. There are often few travelers on
           | that road, and chances are none of them is using Waze.
        
       | JohnFen wrote:
       | I sure hope it isn't dead. I listen to it every day.
        
       | rswerve wrote:
       | Tesla is singled out in the article, but there's a general
       | problem of interference with AM radio in electric vehicles--which
       | seems like the biggest challenge for AM. There are some
       | legislative rumblings to do something about it.
       | https://jalopnik.com/u-s-sen-ed-markey-really-really-wants-a...
        
       | jmbwell wrote:
       | > But as more and more radio stations in the US are controlled by
       | ever fewer radio conglomerates
       | 
       | This is what's underlying it all. Following deregulation, fewer
       | hands gained control of more outlets nationwide, homogenizing for
       | maximum margin on advertising to the markets with the broadest
       | reach. Top-40, country, r&b, at-work, alternative, and at best
       | some market segmentation in parts of the country with significant
       | ethnic demographics.
       | 
       | Advertisers mainly want to pick from this menu, and AM wasn't on
       | it, with the exception of nationally syndicated talk and regional
       | news and sports. That put AM in a down-market position, which put
       | it at lower revenues, which made profitability a bigger struggle,
       | which is a big sign pointing to the "niche" door of relative
       | commercial obscurity.
       | 
       | The technical aspects are a factor in terms of appealing to
       | listeners and thus advertisers, but the decisions are made
       | entirely on commercial grounds.
        
         | AlbertCory wrote:
         | On FM, though, the frequencies from the bottom to 92 MHz are
         | reserved for non-profit stations. You can find the local NPR
         | affiliates there, but also college stations and lots of weird &
         | wonderful one-offs. Like KKUP around here:
         | 
         | https://kkup.org/
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | In upstate NY you might think so. The only channel you can really
       | count on during the day is the one that used to have the _Rush
       | Limbaugh Show_. Around sunset though the atmosphere changes and
       | there is a short time you get DX and can hear Bloomberg radio
       | talking about the stock market being about to open in Hong Kong
       | and then hear it fighting with the  "Black Information Network"
       | in Detroit.
        
       | DoingIsLearning wrote:
       | The BBC World Service shortwave broadcast [0] is still one of the
       | few (safe) ways people can get outside news while living in war-
       | torn regions and totalitarian regimes across Africa, Middle east,
       | and Asia.
       | 
       | People arguing about Audio quality are missing the point of AM:
       | Robustness in adversity.
       | 
       | Receivers are easy to put together and repair, transmission
       | travels long distances beyond enemies/oppressors and unlike
       | online access nobody can intercept your traffic or estimate your
       | location.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2x9tqt6mc05vB2S37j...
        
       | jsonne wrote:
       | I'm the founder of an audio ads startup. To put things in
       | perspective the global radio market for ad dollars is ~$35
       | billion to $40 billion depending on who you ask. All of
       | podcasting is $2 billion.
       | 
       | To be clear the shift to all digital is happening but am/fm radio
       | has a long ways to go before being irrelevant and this shift will
       | likely take a few more decades. Don't sleep on traditional media.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _To put things in perspective the global radio market for ad
         | dollars is ~$35 billion to $40 billion depending on who you
         | ask._
         | 
         | Others say $25 billion globally for terrestrial/OTA and
         | satellite combined, and those physical mediums appear to be a
         | shrinking slice of that. You can see the industry scrambling to
         | redefine all live-streaming audio as "radio" as radio-the-
         | medium evaporates.
        
         | polishdude20 wrote:
         | I think the shift away from radio is being helped by the
         | overabundance of ads on that platform.
        
           | SCNP wrote:
           | And the lack of ability to just skip past them.
        
         | 369548684892826 wrote:
         | Where does DAB radio fit into this? What you're talking about
         | is more about on-demand vs live, rather than analog vs digital
         | isn't it?
        
       | tony-allan wrote:
       | I live in Australia and when I go on a decent road trip its
       | interesting when you lose mobile phone coverage, then FM radio
       | coverage leaving just AM radio.
       | 
       | In summer you can drive along just listening to news and sport
       | coverage (Cricket).
       | 
       | In the country it is the primary source of news and emergency
       | information. During flooding and bushfires most other forms of
       | communication are not available especially during prolonged power
       | outages.
       | 
       | Of course, if you go outside the AM coverage area you lose that
       | as well but that's a different story.
        
       | MBCook wrote:
       | Something I don't see mentioned:
       | 
       | Some (many?) new cars don't have AM radios. And since people in
       | cars seems to be a huge chunk of AM/FM radio listenership that's
       | a very big problem for AM stations.
       | 
       | I know the Mustang Mach-E removed it in the newer models.
        
         | WorldMaker wrote:
         | The article also mentions that Tesla cars dropped AM support by
         | default and now sell a $500 upgrade to the radio just to get AM
         | radio back.
        
       | jsz0 wrote:
       | Someone started an AM radio station in my small town which has
       | managed to survive for 7+ years now so there must be a workable
       | business model there. They focus on hyper-local news & sports
       | coverage that you just can't get anywhere else. The really clever
       | thing they did was to use the launch of the radio station and
       | broadcast location downtown as advertisement for their streaming
       | app. They got a lot of local news coverage and public interest
       | simply by doing something unusual like starting a new AM radio
       | station in a tiny town. They still do AM but I believe the vast
       | majority of their listeners stream. Super clever because someone
       | like my Dad would never know a streaming station existed but he
       | knows they exist because he can drive by the studio and see them
       | broadcasting through the window.
        
       | danjoredd wrote:
       | There are actually a few AM stations in my area. Now, if my car
       | radio still worked, I would totally listen to them because when
       | it DID work, there was a lot of good local news and personalities
       | on there. Did my heart good to hear opinions on current events in
       | my area from people actually effected by it instead of an
       | outsider from a completely different city's opinion on it all.
        
       | stronglikedan wrote:
       | Not at all. And when they simultaneously try to broadcast AM
       | content on FM bands, it sounds like crap. It's arguably where the
       | majority of any given marketing budget goes, probably only edged
       | out by FM, but maybe not.
        
       | tasty_freeze wrote:
       | It is dead to me and has been for decades. Once in a while I'll
       | put on the AM band when driving and there is nothing for me.
       | - hispanic music -- i don't speak spanish and not growing up with
       | it, I have no connection              - conservative talk radio
       | -- as a liberal, I find it more terrifying than anything. hosts
       | and callers will declare that liberals think this or that, or
       | that we are trying to do this or that, things that I and none of
       | my liberal friends would identify with. I was surprised to find
       | out that liberals hate freedom and want to force our kids into
       | being gay. I guess I'm way behind the curve.              -
       | biblical literalism              - (edit) I forgot sports. does
       | nothing for me.
        
       | walrus01 wrote:
       | AM radio has one value for me, if you live in a city with a 50kW
       | station that has traffic announcements every 10 minutes on major
       | screw-up areas/bottlenecks (bridges, tunnels, etc), you can
       | sometimes get around even more efficiently than using google maps
       | to drive with. And by truly not taking your eyes off the road to
       | look at screens of any devices to know where the traffic problems
       | are.
        
       | ssharp wrote:
       | It's certainly 99% dead for me personally but based on the ad
       | dollars still flowing in, I'm assuming there is a still a big
       | audience, even if it's on the decline.
       | 
       | What's more surprising to me at this point is Sirius. I just
       | don't understand how this is still a $22 billion dollar company,
       | doing $9 billion in revenue and is still growing revenue. I don't
       | see where the value is. I haven't subscribed in almost a decade
       | but when I left, the audio quality was really bad -- terrible
       | digital compression artifacts -- and there wasn't really anything
       | that interesting in terms of musical programming that couldn't be
       | had with a streaming service like Spotify. Maybe it's all Stern
       | and sports content that's driving revenue or is there still a big
       | legion of people who actually subscribe for the music?
        
         | guestbest wrote:
         | I never liked Stern. I use it because it came with the car and
         | is only 5$ a month
        
         | RC_ITR wrote:
         | If you look through their releases, the growth appears to be
         | coming from doing a better job of getting a free-trial included
         | in almost every new car and like half of used cars (I assume
         | this is done through dealer networks).
         | 
         | Given that, if free-trials convert at a steady rate, voila, you
         | have growth.
         | 
         | In terms of why people like it:
         | 
         | 1) There's something somewhat Tik-Tik-like about having hyper-
         | specialized music served to you without putting in the work of
         | building a playlist
         | 
         | 2) Streaming services have the somewhat annoying tendency of
         | 'recommending' new songs to you so they can pay the artists
         | less, since they were a 'discovery' mechanism. This leads to
         | bad outcomes if all you want is 80's on 8 (said differently, if
         | you like 80's music, chances are you know the songs you like
         | already)
         | 
         | 3) The lowest their is $13/month, which is cheaper than a phone
         | plan with more data for a lot of people
         | 
         | 4) There's a certain 'Sunday Ticket/League Pass' element, since
         | you can get the radio coverage of nearly any pro sports game
         | (even in home markets I often struggle to find the radio
         | coverage of certain games)
         | 
         | 5) For the traditional satellite service, they're _broadcast
         | only_ so they have _no idea_ what any subscriber is listening
         | to at any point, and some people like that.
        
           | jaywalk wrote:
           | > For the traditional satellite service, they're broadcast
           | only so they have no idea what any subscriber is listening to
           | at any point, and some people like that.
           | 
           | Newer cars collect data on what you're listening to and
           | report back. At least on mine it can be disabled, but it is
           | something that's out there.
        
           | nekoashide wrote:
           | Had it for years on the road for work and it was a life
           | saver, never having to search for stations and listening to
           | ads all the time. When I started working local I dropped it
           | for streaming and that was good enough.
           | 
           | A few years later I was taking a multi state trip and
           | reactivated, when I got back I re-subbed both vehicles. It's
           | any kind of radio with almost no interruptions and it's worth
           | the price.
        
         | bsder wrote:
         | Monopsony strikes again.
         | 
         | Sirius still exists because FM radio is absolute dogshit in the
         | US thanks to the Clear Channel/iHeartMedia conglomerate
         | effectively owning everything.
         | 
         | Your FM dial is absolutely terrible unless you happen to live
         | near a good college radio station or an unusual city (San Diego
         | can pick up some interesting Mexican stations, for example).
        
         | massysett wrote:
         | I subscribe to the Sirius XM app. I like the music stations. I
         | have Apple Music too so I could get along without it, but I
         | actually like the DJs, and although I could probably find
         | similar channels on Apple, some of the Sirius mixes are a bit
         | unique so it's worth $10 a month to me.
         | 
         | The app. Not the satellite. The satellite sound quality is
         | horrible. I can see how satellite was worth it before 4G, but
         | now I just use my phone in the car.
        
           | WirelessGigabit wrote:
           | I like road trips. And then I really find Sirius XM well
           | worth the money. FM coverage is too local and choppy when
           | going through hills / mountains. 5G? Yea, right. The closest
           | you get is 4G from another provider, which throttles you
           | (e.g. using T-Mobile, which will jump to AT&T where there is
           | no T-Mobile. It'll show 4G but the speeds are slower than
           | 56K).
           | 
           | So Sirius XM there it is.
        
         | ryanpandya wrote:
         | SiriusXM plays a huge role in aviation and maritime data (e.g.
         | onboard weather). I bet things like this are a large portion of
         | the revenue.
        
         | DMell wrote:
         | Their sports offerings are what gets me. I watch a lot of
         | hockey and use it to listen to random games while doing other
         | things.
        
           | red-iron-pine wrote:
           | huh never thought about radio games. all of the streaming
           | packages seem overpriced but radio might be a much crappier
           | but tolerable option, with the bonus of having other radio
           | channels.
           | 
           | still gonna donate to Soma.FM tho
        
         | ryanianian wrote:
         | I actually really like SiriusXM. I have 3-4 stations that I
         | play nearly constantly whether in the car, on the house sonos
         | system, or while on transit. My 3-year-old car has a decent
         | (stock) sound-system, and I honestly don't hear any compression
         | artifacts. Their IP streaming is high-quality.
         | 
         | Most of their music stations are basically well-curated, 4-hour
         | playlists. Most channels have guest hosts/DJs that are
         | legitimate to the genres (e.g. Diplo hosts his station at
         | times) that update the playlists periodically. I still augment
         | my music with Apple Music and podcasts, but I spend far more
         | time with Sirius.
         | 
         | The unfortunate part is that they still play stupid and hostile
         | pricing games. "Promotions" that you have to call to renew to
         | get the stupid $25/month charge reduced to like $7/month. At
         | that price it beats Pandora, terrestrial (am/fm) radio, and
         | even Spotify/Apple Music if you primarily listen to curated
         | playlists.
        
           | polygotdomain wrote:
           | You sound pretty close to me to be honest. When my wife and I
           | go on a long trip it makes it easy to put on in the car. I
           | tend to have it on when I'm working around the house during
           | the weekend. For me it fills in a void of wanting to listen
           | to something more than background music, but not wanting to
           | choose more than a genre that fits my mood. For whatever
           | reasons all of the algorithmic "stations" that I've had on
           | other services either deviate too much from what I originally
           | wanted, or are too narrow and don't get enough variety.
        
         | hellotomyrars wrote:
         | As another reply said, there are plenty of places where you
         | still can't get a cell signal but you can get satellite. Sirius
         | is huge for Truckers for this reason. But even where I live
         | (Rural) If I drive East I don't have cell signal pretty much
         | until I hit I-5 once I leave the area around my town. It takes
         | an hour ish to hit I-5 directly but the route I prefer to take
         | if I'm headed to Longview or Portland which is the only reason
         | I'd go that way is along the Columbia River and there is no
         | cell signal for what is about an hour and a half of the drive.
         | 
         | I mean my music is downloaded for offline use and I don't want
         | a radio style of listening experience, but for my parents it is
         | the only viable way for them to listen to music on that drive.
         | And with regular radio you're going to be trying to find
         | stations you want to listen to as you live in and out of range.
         | 
         | Granted my parents also have a grandfathered lifetime
         | membership.
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | >Maybe it's all Stern and sports content that's driving revenue
         | or is there still a big legion of people who actually subscribe
         | for the music?
         | 
         | My dad subscribes for Bruce Springsteen's
         | channel/show/whatever. Dude just can never get enough of
         | Springsteen. I'd imagine there are other fans of other artists
         | doing the same.
        
         | parasubvert wrote:
         | I subscribe mostly for the music (maybe 15+ years now?),
         | Spotify's algorithms are pretty crappy IMO. TIDAL's are better,
         | but they're really expensive. Sirius has very good curation.
         | And I like some of the DJs. News, stern and sports also factor
         | in as nice to haves. It also doesn't hit my mobile data plan in
         | the car.
        
           | mastercheif wrote:
           | I thought Spotify and Tidal are the same price, $10/mo
        
         | vel0city wrote:
         | Another thing that Sirius does that a lot of people aren't
         | talking about is their data services. Having updated weather
         | and fish maps live while you're offshore is pretty handy and
         | satellite internet connections can be very pricey.
        
           | yetanotherloser wrote:
           | ...you don't need a (relatively) expensive single sideband
           | set and radio-nerd tendencies to pick up weather data
           | offshore where you live? That is pretty great if so. Would
           | that there were more of it.
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | I'm a little confused about your comment.
             | 
             | This is stuff like fishing recommendations by species, sea
             | surface heights, temperature contors, 30m deep temperature
             | condors, plankton concentrations, weather radar, storm
             | tracks, wave heights, and more and then integrated into
             | common Garmin, Raymarine, Lowrance, Simrad, and other
             | equipment that many boats would already have. All of that
             | data constantly updated and refreshed live even when you're
             | miles out to sea and can't pick up common line of sight
             | style transmissions.
             | 
             | Its not just a METAR weather report from an airport kinda
             | near the shore.
        
         | daveaiello wrote:
         | The reason I subscribe to Sirius/XM is for simulcasts of news
         | and business channels, listening to live sports events (while
         | driving or not in front of a TV), and some of the music genre
         | channels that are hosted by DJs, in that order.
         | 
         | I am switching my subscription from satellite to streaming
         | because I will save a pretty significant portion of the monthly
         | fee, I stream everything else I listen to or watch at home, in
         | the office, or in the car, and the CarPlay experience is much
         | better when you are using 100% streaming audio.
        
         | woofcat wrote:
         | I subscribe and enjoy it. It's great to catch Formula 1 when
         | I'm out and about doing errands, and for 99% of my use case the
         | music side of it is just fine. Commuting to and from work I
         | don't need much more than "random playlist of genre x"
         | 
         | It works out to be $120/year, and that's with Howard Stern, and
         | all the sports etc.
         | 
         | Could I do all this streaming with my phone? Most likely,
         | however with this I don't worry when I drive down into the
         | States that I'm now "Roaming" or really worry about data usage
         | at all. Also I don't have to think about it.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | If I drove more I'd probably fork over the money for Sirius. I
         | had it for free in my car for a while and it was certainly much
         | better than FM stations. I did one week-long road trip in the
         | Western U.S. and it was pretty cool to just keep it on the same
         | station and it works even when there's no cell signal. Even
         | their pop/hits stations are way better than my local FM
         | stations, both in music selection/variation and obviously no
         | ads/terrible DJ chatter.
         | 
         | But with my current driving habits that's maybe one or two
         | weeks a year where I would really care to have it.
        
           | arbitrary_name wrote:
           | But wouldn't Spotify music and podcasts be a better option?
           | Download content for listening when you lack cell coverage?
           | 
           | In no way am i able to understand how radio would be a better
           | alternative, but thats just my own bias.
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | I can't speak for anyone else, but for $5/month or whatever
             | discount I'm paying, it's well worth it to have a wide
             | variety of music available on demand. I learn things I
             | didn't know, hear music I'd not otherwise hear,
             | occasionally they'll have well-established musicians &
             | producers do a set and talk about people they know and why
             | they like their music so much.
             | 
             | I'm sure Spotify has its own advantages (I'm a long-time
             | Pandora user, haven't tried it) but not having to plan
             | anything in advance and having full access to all of the
             | stations in the middle of nowhere is quite nice.
        
               | tshaddox wrote:
               | I'd pay $5 a month if it was going to be the permanent
               | price! When I've looked into it it's more like $20 a
               | month.
        
               | eep_social wrote:
               | It is always possible to get the service for about
               | $5-7/month by contacting customer support and mentioning
               | the price and switching to a competitor. They'll put you
               | on a promo that lasts a year for $5-7/month. You, in
               | turn, will put another "save $100" reminder into your
               | calendar for next year before the billing date.. and the
               | cycle will continue. The cycle is well documented on the
               | subreddit, no need to take me at my word.
               | 
               | Yes it's dumb but sxm also works better for my personal
               | situation than Spotify etc.
        
               | macintux wrote:
               | Based on my limited time with the service (bought a new
               | vehicle last January) if I let the trial period
               | subscription lapse, they'll offer the lower price after a
               | couple of weeks to lure me back in.
               | 
               | I just let myself be lured, and anticipate doing so next
               | time.
        
             | tshaddox wrote:
             | I already pay for Apple Music and use that the vast
             | majority of the time, especially when I'm by myself. But I
             | still put the local FM hits station on regularly, either as
             | background music when driving with friends or family or
             | just when I can't be bothered to choose something on my
             | phone. I'd probably check out their genre stations and non-
             | music content from time to time. It just doesn't add up to
             | enough to make it worth the cost, but it could if I found
             | myself driving more.
        
             | shagie wrote:
             | Locally stored podcasts work, but Spotify over the air can
             | accidentally rack up some nasty data roaming charges that
             | you don't realize until later. And there are significant
             | stretches of the highway where cellphone data is spotty
             | (pun not intended).
             | 
             | Siris radio works everywhere you aren't driving next to
             | something blocking the line of sight to the sky. It
             | maintains the channel across significant distances so
             | you're not hunting for "ok, what to listen to next?" (one
             | time when driving to my grandparents house for Thanksgiving
             | and changing the station as one faded I heard Alices
             | Restaurant four times).
             | 
             | The main thing with Siris for driving is that its got DJs
             | and news and such.
             | 
             | On my great road trip I had an iPod loaded up with songs
             | and had that on shuffle for a few months... and while I had
             | a few hundred hours of songs, they were all things I heard
             | before.
             | 
             | Part of listening to the radio, Spotify, or Siris is that
             | the next song _might_ be something different.
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | https://4m3ric4.com -
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33217395
        
         | grogenaut wrote:
         | Or all the folks who live where the cell reception is sh*t (eg
         | off the freeway) but can see the sky...
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | Are there that many people or places though? Even from my
           | small hometown with a population of 300 tucked away in the
           | mountains, there's 5g cell service from the major providers.
           | 
           | I'm certain places like that exist, but I'm guessing it's far
           | less than most would imagine.
           | 
           | My bet is a non-insignificant amount of sirus's money today
           | comes from their model of making subscriptions really
           | annoying to cancel. And, of course, preying on old people
           | that may have forgot about their subscription or don't get
           | streaming.
        
             | tjohns wrote:
             | Absolutely.
             | 
             | Driving up from the SF Bay to Tahoe, you'll lose cell
             | service as you pass through the mountains - especially if
             | you take the Highway 50 route. Drive up to Oregon, and
             | you'll lose cell service for a long stretch roughly near
             | Klamath Falls. (As an aside, that part of the country
             | doesn't even have NEXRAD weather radar.)
             | 
             | And this is all while on the freeway or major highways.
             | There's plenty of places out west without a reliable cell
             | signal, or sometimes a signal that's so weak that it's not
             | usable for data.
        
             | DMell wrote:
             | There is a very large number of areas in Colorado that
             | don't have coverage.
        
             | jhpaul wrote:
             | Where I live in New Mexico has consistently poor reception
             | withing about 60 miles. My Spotify is almost always in
             | offline mode since it chokes on poor signal. Radio and TV
             | have repeaters on a nearby mountain that rebroadcast a few
             | stations. Meanwhile Sirius works everywhere except in my
             | garage.
             | 
             | For me it mostly replaces my CD changer, which doesn't
             | exist in newer cars. When I can't decide what to listen to,
             | have poor signal, or don't want to fiddle with the
             | controls, it gives me a nice selection on fallbacks.
        
             | xxpor wrote:
             | I didn't realize how sparse coverage was in the West until
             | I moved out here. Once you're 5 minutes off of an
             | interstate outside of a metro area it's pretty common still
             | to have no signal.
        
         | gt565k wrote:
         | Sirius XM is still sold as a subscription and addon package to
         | a lot of new vehicles so the revenue probably comes in from
         | recurring monthly subscription payments that people just get
         | used to paying for so they can have satellite based music
         | wherever they are.
        
         | Tangurena2 wrote:
         | I think a large part of their market is that the radios come
         | pre-installed in new cars. I dislike how it is impossible to
         | subscribe to the middle 2 tiers of programming without actually
         | placing a telephone call. I have zero interest in Stern or
         | sports.
        
       | krumpet wrote:
       | AM radio is still my go-to for sports. Nothing like summertime
       | and MLB on the radio while I work on a side project in the
       | garage. College football and basketball too. Love those hometown
       | announcers!
        
       | quartz wrote:
       | I seriously considered buying an AM radio station a few years
       | ago. You can get a fully operational station and the land it's on
       | for under $200k in pretty populated areas.
       | 
       | Something about just broadcasting whatever you want into a
       | protected frequency band for anyone with an antenna to hear seems
       | really cool.
        
         | 112233 wrote:
         | How much electricity does an AM station burn?
        
           | forinti wrote:
           | That and content, unless you are going to broadcast only your
           | own stuff.
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | I would be surprised if you could not find plenty of
             | podcasts happy to be slotted into your schedule for no fee
             | whatsoever.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | That would kick ass. Part of me wishes the FCC opened the AM
         | band to "public access" (legit radio piracy -- perhaps with a
         | 50W or so ceiling?) but the way the internet has unfolded
         | suggests to me what a shitshow that would become.
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | That's why AM radio these days is incredibly weird.
         | 
         | Lots of fire and brimstone, and right wing talk radio. Which
         | isn't that weird, it's what you'd expect given our media
         | ecosystem.
         | 
         | But also really niche stuff. A friend of mine told me there's
         | an AM radio station in NYC which plays nothing but Black Metal.
         | 
         | Many of these stations carry Coast to Coast late at night,
         | which is about as weird as you get.
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Sounds like shortwave which is, apparently, primarily
           | religious proselytizing these days.
        
             | RajT88 wrote:
             | Free-To-Air Satellite TV as well.
             | 
             | Anything a little less mainstream which is cheap to get
             | into.
        
           | jhallenworld wrote:
           | On shortwave you get the "Supreme Master"- who owns the
           | Loving Hut chain of vegan restaurants. They are nice, but
           | possibly a cult..
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching_Hai
           | 
           | But late night AM, you get "Ministry in the Marketplace with
           | Dr. Richard Hamlet" on WEZE 590. This is the craziest right
           | wingnut radio I've ever heard, even including shortwave. Last
           | week they were ranting on about the "death vaccine".
           | 
           | "By the 1950s, America had forgotten the Biblical principles
           | that it was founded on. In the mid-60s, government-controlled
           | education was implemented. At that time, The Foundation for
           | American Christian Education was formed to help limit that
           | control by educating families and even schools on the . . ."
        
             | UncleOxidant wrote:
             | That last paragraph just sounds like your average right-
             | wing Christian radio station of which there are thousands
             | across the US. Heck, your last paragraph there could've
             | been from Dr. Dobson on the Focus on the Family radio show
             | which is quite mainstream among American Evangelicals (of
             | which there are many).
             | 
             | As for the Loving Hut restaurants... oh, _that 's_ what I
             | went to downtown? It did seem culty. They were playing some
             | video on a loop about world peace, etc. I've gotta say,
             | though, their vegan shrimp were quite good - a very good
             | approximation down to the texture.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | daveguy wrote:
         | Does that include licensing of the frequency or just the
         | infrastructure? Even if it includes some duration of the
         | license, I expect there are still regulations and red tape to
         | maintain that license. And regulations about what you can
         | broadcast.
        
           | quartz wrote:
           | Oh sure, the list of FCC rules is seemingly endless... but
           | it's still a pretty wide margin of media and speech permitted
           | especially on the "talk radio" side of things.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | The operational requirements are a bit stringent, though--
             | there are certain staffing and compliance requirements for
             | the studio and transmitter facilities.
             | 
             | And even low-power AM transmission stations need an
             | annoying amount of physical plant maintenance--cutting
             | grass, trimming overgrowth, fixing all the random annoying
             | issues that crop up when maintaining any kind of equipment
             | at a remote site (theft, rodents, water ingress, cooling,
             | power, comms, etc.).
        
               | yetanotherloser wrote:
               | That sounds like "being responsible for a building'. Buy
               | a seagoing boat sometime to play this game on hardmode
               | :-D
        
         | kunai wrote:
         | Seems like you could get the same thing with ham radio for far
         | less cost (albeit far less cachet by virtue of not being ex
         | officio)
        
           | fr0sty wrote:
           | Amateur radio is for 2-way communication only. No
           | "broadcasts" allowed (with some _very narrow_ exceptions).
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | >just broadcasting whatever you want
         | 
         | but that's not exactly true unless you wear an eye patch, roll
         | your Rs when you speak, have a wooden leg, and have a parrot
         | perched on your shoulder.
         | 
         | that $200k buys you equipment and land. it does not include any
         | licensing or royalty payments for the content you ultimately
         | decide to broadcast. if you have a full 100k flamethrower of a
         | transmitter, the utility bill for that bad boy is not something
         | I'll envy from you.
        
           | kfarr wrote:
           | Funny I never thought of that now obvious fact that a radio
           | transmitter like this will suck so much power it'd cost a
           | bunch in electricity
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | while not being a radio engineer myself, i spent some time
             | around them for several years. even got to go to the
             | antenna farm with them on one excursion. these things are
             | no joke with the electrical wiring. just seeing the size of
             | knife switch disconnects is an indicator of don't mess with
             | this. never mind all of the other high voltage signage.
             | there's a few other fun facts of broadcast towers that
             | really makes you wonder if this is something you really
             | want to be doing as a "hobby"
             | 
             | don't know the level of urban legend, but i have heard that
             | BASE jumpers that climb to the top of a tower to jump will
             | start to feel their fillings heat up by the time they get
             | to the top.
        
         | jhallenworld wrote:
         | There is a guy around Boston who did this: Bob Bittner
         | 
         | Bought an old Cambridge AM station for cheap.. runs at low
         | power to keep the costs low.
         | 
         | Check out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WJIB (740 AM)
         | 
         | For years they had no commercials, but took donations (but they
         | were never non-profit).
        
         | sheepybloke wrote:
         | Just wondering, how did you find them? Just googling it, or
         | through craigslist, or through a friend?
        
           | jollyllama wrote:
           | Probably BizBuySell
        
         | outworlder wrote:
         | > Something about just broadcasting whatever you want into a
         | protected frequency band for anyone with an antenna to hear
         | seems really cool.
         | 
         | If I ever get ridiculous amounts of money that could be burned
         | on frivolous stuff like this without a worry, I'd make
         | something similar to Fallout's radio stations.
        
       | caned wrote:
       | * * *
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | All I listen to is AM radio, so if it's dead then maybe I am a
       | zombie.
        
       | raspyberr wrote:
       | I really dislike this type of usage of the word "dead". There's
       | not a general consensus on what it means. Does it mean unpopular,
       | not as popular as it once was, literally unusable and
       | inaccessible, or some subtle variation?
        
       | askvictor wrote:
       | I was on a multi-day hike (Tasmania, Australia) some years ago,
       | where we would need to know if snow was falling further ahead, as
       | the pass would be difficult in snow, so we would need to turn
       | back in that case; it would be easier to turn back well before
       | reaching the pass. I packed an AM radio to listen to the weather
       | forecast in the morning; before sunrise, the ionosphere reflects
       | AM waves, so the distance of the signal is greatly enhanced (the
       | hike was in a mountainous area and had no straight-line to any
       | radio towers). In fact, I couldn't get the local radio station's
       | reception, but did get reception for heaps of other stations, one
       | of them over 2000km away; I almost wonder if the local station
       | was being drowned out by distant ones (or more likely the
       | ionosphere reflection is better a shallow angles)
        
       | alerighi wrote:
       | AM radio is long gone in Europe, in Italy the last stations did
       | shut down years ago. The audio quality of AM is too low for any
       | practical use, and didn't evolve in the years, such as implement
       | stereo transmissions. FM is much better, it can provide decent
       | quality with stereo sound.
       | 
       | Even FM will not probably be still around for much longer, even
       | if I'm not in favour to the transition to DAB radio since I like
       | vintage Hi-Fi systems in the end it will be abandoned,
       | transmitting with digital is much cheaper since you need less
       | power for a similar coverage and you can multiplex more stations
       | in a single frequency.
        
         | rpep wrote:
         | In the U.K. it's still used to broadcast some national BBC
         | stations (BBC R5 Live, BBC Asian Network) that aren't available
         | on FM and in some more areas it's used to broadcast stations
         | that are also on FM (BBC R4). They still also operate some LW!
         | https://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/help-guides/fmmwlw-radio/fm-...
         | 
         | Until two weeks ago I used to listen to Absolute Radio in my
         | car over MW but they shut it down.
        
         | parasubvert wrote:
         | AM is everywhere in North America. News/sports/traffic/weather
         | in particular. So it is still practical. AM Stereo even was
         | thing since the late 80s, just required a receiver.
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | One of the few instances where the title being a question
       | actually makes sense.
        
       | jhallenworld wrote:
       | So in Boston (which is the No. 10 radio market),
       | 
       | https://ratings.radio-online.com/content/arb013
       | 
       | WBZ 1030 AM (news radio) hovers around no. 5. They transmit on HD
       | radio also (HD 2 on 107.9 FM), but the range is limited compared
       | with AM.
       | 
       | RKO 680 AM (local right wing talk radio) is also near the top.
       | 
       | Conclusion: AM is not dead
        
       | albeebe1 wrote:
       | It's alive and well in my car when it comes to news. AM 1030 WBZ
        
       | spike021 wrote:
       | I still listen to baseball on the radio.
       | 
       | Although I'll mention that nowadays it's also streaming online.
       | So I really only use it with AM radio in the car.
        
       | rfmoz wrote:
       | Like shortwave broadcasting, AM have their place nowadays, it
       | brings a comunication service to their target. It's true that it
       | isn't as popular as before, but take a look to the postal service
       | and their letters. Who writes a letter today? but you can do it
       | without problem if you want.
        
       | 112233 wrote:
       | OTOH, CB radio has been lately getting harmonised and deregulated
       | all over, and AM is one of the legal modulations (along with FM
       | and SSB). So a lot of opportunity to enjoy "warm AM sound" with
       | your neighbors, even if the cell goes down.
       | 
       | [edit] they even have portable ones! (look up "Randy", no SSB
       | though). And with a half decent SDR you can record the whole 40
       | channels at once, to see if there is anything worth joining in.
        
       | oneplane wrote:
       | It is mostly dead here in Western Europe for over a decade now,
       | I'm assuming a mix of relatively high cost, yet almost no
       | relevance.
        
       | hellotomyrars wrote:
       | AM is here to stay for at least a few more decades. In the US
       | it's a lot more scarce to find AM broadcasts that aren't either
       | political or religious (often extremely so) because of the market
       | for renting airtime and the longer reach than FM.
       | 
       | But AM is still bread and butter for South/Central America and
       | Africa. Not sure how much it is used in Southeast Asia but it
       | wouldn't surprise me if it was still very popular there too.
       | 
       | Eventually it'll be gone due to the inevitable March of
       | technology, but it has plenty of life left in it.
        
       | yyyk wrote:
       | Cars are rather important for radio listenership. So when AV cars
       | finally arrive, the effect on radio should be large - former
       | drivers would be more able to consume different forms of
       | entertainment in the car, and I don't think many would remain
       | with radio only.
        
       | reaperducer wrote:
       | AM radio is no different than any other radio: If the content is
       | good, people will listen.
       | 
       | It's worth noting that for decades, FM was considered a graveyard
       | of talk programming, with occasional classical mixed in. Today,
       | the situation has been reversed.
       | 
       | In cities where there is enough money to produce good content, AM
       | radio does well. In smaller places, where there isn't enough
       | money available to create good content, AM stations are very
       | often relegated to satellite- and internet-fed formats.
       | 
       | The most recent Chicago ratings I can quickly find1 (June, 2022)
       | show AM doing well, with AM stations ranking #5, #11, #23, #25
       | and #27 in a market of over 50 stations.
       | 
       | But even in small places, while the FMs will dominate all day
       | long, a good AM or three will dominate the morning drive when
       | they present local programming.
       | 
       | Electric cars are starting to be a problem for AM radio, which is
       | why so many now have FM translators, and free internet streams.
       | But AM will have a place on the air for a very long time to come.
       | 
       | /I've worked for about a dozen different AM stations in my
       | lifetime.
       | 
       | 1 https://robertfeder.dailyherald.com/2022/06/13/chicago-radio...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
         | the problem with AM is quality. You can't put music down it
         | which really limits your options.
        
           | floren wrote:
           | Music went out over AM for decades just fine; what band do
           | you think people were listening to back in the pre-TV days of
           | the big console radio?
           | 
           | I'll occasionally find a decent AM music station even these
           | days, and when it's not being overwhelmed by all the modern
           | RF noise, it sounds just fine.
        
             | Kon-Peki wrote:
             | The OP listed some AM stations that were near the top of
             | the rating in the Chicago market. I looked at the list and
             | the top two AM stations were no surprise: WBBM and WGN.
             | 
             | It's not really a good idea to look at these two stations
             | to get an idea of the health of the entire AM market. These
             | two are giant class A clear channel stations that date back
             | to the 1920s and the origination of AM radio licenses.
             | Being in the center of the continent they can do
             | omnidirectional broadcasting without "wasting" power like a
             | station on the coast would. They're among the few that can
             | still afford to be "local" station with very little
             | syndicated content (and broadcast a lot of sports to vast
             | swaths of the US and Canada that have no local professional
             | sports team), and they'll probably be among the last of the
             | AM stations to shut down.
        
       | euroderf wrote:
       | FWIW.. IIRC in the 70s Syracuse NY was known for having a prog
       | rock station that actually broadcast on the AM band.
        
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