[HN Gopher] Is AM radio dead?
___________________________________________________________________
Is AM radio dead?
Author : HieronymusBosch
Score : 108 points
Date : 2023-01-31 15:45 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.jeffgeerling.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.jeffgeerling.com)
| at_a_remove wrote:
| Well, he's in St. Louis and it isn't doing well there.
|
| 1430 AM ("The Crazy Q") was the last bastion of oldies in the
| 50s, early 60s sense. Its license, as well as a few others, were
| held by a man who was a convicted felon and apparently that's a
| no-no. Anyway, it folded and that was that.
|
| I dig around and there's just not much else I can find on the AM
| band aside from talk, some kind of Catholic radio, sports ...
| runjake wrote:
| I would like to see a "national public" satellite radio. Pump the
| National Weather Service and another channel or few with public
| domain entertainment on it, to get people to buy them (eg. Eton
| radios) and chuck them in the closet for a severe weather or
| disaster event.
|
| I understand the science decently, but I don't understand the
| economic feasibility. I assume if it were feasible, it would have
| been done by now.
|
| But it seems like something that will become more economically
| feasible in the near future as space transport progresses.
| user3939382 wrote:
| One of my hobbies is listening to Yankees games on my old wooden
| tube radio from the 20s. It's alive for me!
| Overtonwindow wrote:
| I would love to see AM radio opened up to private citizens. Take
| podcasting and move it to AM radio, where a person can pay or
| subscribe to a frequency and broadcast on it. Not so much as a
| corporation but something easier, cheaper, and more accessible to
| average citizens. Maybe that's a recipe for disaster but it's an
| idea..
| skedaddle wrote:
| I've been listening to AM broadcasts a lot over the last few
| months. I can get good reception from 2-3 local stations on my
| crystal set. One gives me state and national news, interviews,
| the weather; useful stuff. From the other I've learned a lot
| about aliens, nutrition, debt and debt consolidation, Gray Man,
| World War III, psychedelic drugs, skinwalkers, Christian dating
| situations (ex: non-abstinent partners), the holiday/inflation
| deals on Smith & Wesson steel, various troubling situations
| involving Biden and his son...
|
| What else. I don't know, I learn so much from my radio that it's
| hard to keep track! And it's so much more engaging than your
| typically maybe-just-as-sane Netflix documentary with its jarring
| interview style. The AM hosts actually let their guests talk,
| uninterrupted, and at length, so you can hear what their points
| are in the way that they meant to say it. The other night a
| caller phoned into this expert cryptozoological guy they were
| interviewing and related how a canid, "too big to be a dog but
| too small to be a wolf", planted itself on the road in front of
| his truck before morphing into a woman before him (at night!).
| And he and this doctor they had as a guest were able to work
| through the experience on the spot; it wasn't some high
| production story that cut back and forth through irrelevant fancy
| stuff for 20 minutes before finally explaining what the guy saw.
|
| I'm only partly being tongue in cheek... This is how "information
| diet" + learn more about radio new years resolutions have been
| working out for me. All this crazy stuff has replaced the social
| media and news/opinion drama I would get wrapped up on before.
| It's free, actually enjoyable (because of the radio projects, not
| the broadcasts), mildly to thoroughly amusing (because of the
| broadcasts), and the insanity is gone as soon as I take the
| headset off. It should get better soon as well. I'm going to
| build an FM receiver next, and I hear they still play music on
| those channels!
| dredmorbius wrote:
| The "Divided Dial" series (six parts) from WNYC's On the Media
| does an excellent job of detailing how and why radio in general
| (both AM & FM bands in the US) has come to be both so
| concentrated (in ownership) and divided (in content and
| audience). Both ... portend poorly.
|
| The full series, with both audio and transcripts, is here:
| <https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/divided-dial>
|
| Doc Searls, an old radio hand himself, often writes about the
| topic, though concentrating more on infrastructure than business
| or culture:
|
| <https://blogs.harvard.edu/doc/category/broadcasting/>
|
| I'd argue that AM radio, much as with FM and over-the-air
| television, is fading fast, _especially_ in urban regions in
| which broadband Internet and cable programming offer far more
| attractive options. For myself, I find I 'm listening to podcasts
| far more than informational radio (though I'll listen to some
| music programming) over the air --- it's convenient, and has very
| little advertising. Less than the nominally noncommercial public
| broadcasting alternative.
|
| But in rural regions, where markets are sparse, AM's range still
| pulls in what few people there are, and motivated and ideological
| ownership often drives content, radio remains a potent force. The
| OTM series gives strong insights into those dynamics.
|
| (The series was mentioned downthread by danielodievich:
| <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34602095>)
| nightowl_games wrote:
| In rural Saskatchewan, where I am from, farmers listen to AM
| radio literally all day long because they don't get good FM
| reception. It's too sparse and the demographic is too non-
| technical to even know what Spotify is.
| supernova87a wrote:
| I have been curious about why AM stations exhibit the demographic
| effect you see (in terms of programming, station ownership, etc).
|
| Is it because of something to do with the licensing of the
| spectrum, and the cost of buying that? Or because of the
| restrictions around broadcasting (content and distance) of any
| given station? Or the cost of equipment to operate?
|
| So interesting that something about how the domain operates that
| creates a different dynamic of what you hear on the radio in AM
| vs. FM.
| danielodievich wrote:
| The Divided Dial from On The Media
| https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/divided-dial would be
| a fantastic - if somewhat lengthy - answer to your question.
| supernova87a wrote:
| Thanks!
| dredmorbius wrote:
| A strong second to that recommendation. Excellent series.
|
| I'll also note that there are transcripts for all five, er,
| six, episodes, if that's your jam.
| supernova87a wrote:
| Thanks!
| TheAdamist wrote:
| My city has a newsradio AM station that's still doing well and
| lots of people listen for the traffic reports, but they started
| simulcasting on FM as well recently to futureproof themselves.
| The FM signal has far better sound quality of course but thats
| not really necessary for news reports. But the AM signal can
| frequently be heard when the FM is completely lost to
| interference.
|
| I dont know of any other big am stations, my car has separate
| presets per band, so newsradio is permanently on for the AM
| signal and their FM is frequently on the fm preset.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| AM is not dead, if you've ever lived or visited outside of the
| big metropolitan areas. It's normal to have a radio on the
| kitchen counter tuned to the local station, for gossip, local
| news, talk, and ads that are actually relevant to you.
|
| .. and of course, baseball.
| classichasclass wrote:
| Even in the big areas. KFI-AM and KNX-AM are still huge in Los
| Angeles, for example. Both have FM simulcasts but I've gotten
| KFI-AM in Arizona and Nevada no trouble, and the KNX FM
| simulcast in particular has odd coverage gaps.
|
| The counterexample in LA is KABC-AM which is a shadow of its
| former shelf.
| throw0101c wrote:
| > _AM is not dead, if you 've ever lived or visited outside of
| the big metropolitan areas._
|
| Decent amount of AM in Toronto, Canada. Mostly talk shows and
| lots of sports broadcasts/discussions. 680 is handy for
| news/weather/traffic as their format is to do a 'loop' of major
| topics over a period of 30 minutes.
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFTR_(AM)
|
| 1010 also broadcasts on shortwave to be able to hit cottage
| country:
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFRB
|
| * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottage_country
| Scoundreller wrote:
| In Greater Toronto area, I like 1150AM which used to be
| sports station (opex galore) (and an oldies/community radio
| station before that), but in a cost-saving measure, now just
| simulcasts a subscription (!) business news TV station (BNN
| Bloomberg).
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| There's a lot of angry shouting shows on AM radio.
| walthamstow wrote:
| Is AM a genre of radio or a transmission method, or both?
|
| This kitchen radio is common too in the UK but the radio would
| be FM at the least, more likely DAB these days. BBC Radio 4 or
| '5 Live' nationally and the BBC have dozens of local radio
| stations all over the country. All talk, no music.
| svachalek wrote:
| Kind of both. It's a transmission method (amplitude
| modulation) that's very lo-fi which leads to it rarely being
| used for music, which dominates other radio. So it ends up
| being talk shows, sports, news, traffic reports, etc.
| bityard wrote:
| "very lo-fi" is pretty relative... FM offered higher
| quality audio, but that came mostly from the fact that it
| was not as prone to interference. (And yes, it was stereo
| instead of mono, but I think stereo AM became a thing
| eventually.) Other than that, if the station you were
| listening to was not far away, there wasn't really any
| difference in perceptible quality _if_ you had a decent
| receiver and antenna, which most people didn't. It was
| cheaper and easier to make an FM radio that sounded good
| compared to AM.
|
| If you tool around the HF ham bands at night, sometimes you
| will catch a couple of hams conversing in AM near the top
| of 40 meters. The ones that have spent some time tweaking
| their audio and transmitter sound like they're sitting
| right next to you. Very crisp and clear, especially next to
| single side-band!
| DaiPlusPlus wrote:
| One leads from the other: the nature (transmission range,
| operational costs, and quality... or lack there-of) of AM
| radio in North America led it into rural-focused, talk-only
| (and eventually "conservative") programming - and sports
| (just like how BBC Radio 5 is also AM, not FM).
| [deleted]
| AlbertCory wrote:
| If you really want to jump into the time machine, rent the
| movie "American Graffiti."
|
| When _all_ they had was AM, that was the social network for
| teenagers.
| ElevenLathe wrote:
| First you'll need to navigate the time machine to the video
| rental store.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| Maybe you've heard of renting movies from Amazon? It's
| all the rage.
| pea wrote:
| 5 live is actually AM-only (outside of DAB) and is really the
| only time I listen to AM (in the car when football is on
| etc.)
| jeffdubin wrote:
| If you want to get a feel in real-time, visit a site offering
| WebSDR[1]. Look for a receiver in the US and tune between
| 530-1700KHz in AM mode. Note that reception will vary based
| on time of day [2].
|
| [1] http://websdr.org/ is a good place to start
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-channel_station
| Kajayacht wrote:
| I listen to political talk radio on AM, even though it simulcasts
| on FM, all the time for a few reasons.
|
| 1. Signal strength is much more consistent and further reaching.
|
| 2. I don't have to worry about my wife changing the station on
| the AM radio in the car. The FM radio could be set anywhere, but
| when I'm driving I just change it to AM and there's my station.
|
| 3. There's a "je ne sais pas" factor in the fuzziness and
| softness of the audio that I find pleasant and less harsh than
| what you get with talk radio on FM. Maybe for the same reason
| people like the sound of vinyl records, though I'm not into
| vinyl.
| gwd wrote:
| > "je ne sais pas"
|
| "Je ne sais quoi", perhaps?
| https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/je_ne_sais_quoi
|
| "Je ne sais quoi" means "I don't know what"; "Je ne sais pas"
| just means "I don't know".
| taftster wrote:
| re: #3
|
| I agree with you. There's something about the aesthetics of AM
| radio that favors talk radio. In a former life, I would listen
| to a lot of political talk radio (from a few major brands), and
| switching over to listen to them in FM just wasn't the same. I
| preferred listening on AM.
|
| There's also something about the sound of AM that is somehow
| nostalgic and reminds me of taking long road trips cross-
| country in lowly populated west or mid-west states with my
| grandparents. The "reach" of an AM station somehow connects
| with me and the impression on me will unfortunately die with my
| generation; at least, I know my kids have no consideration for
| AM radio, or radio at all for that matter.
| jossclimb wrote:
| Not when you're at everest base camp and listening to the BBC
| world service.
| ajross wrote:
| I want to hear the technical side here. So, sure, AM radio is
| fading. But audio content delivery is alive and very active. So
| in practice everyone will just move over to podcasts and it'll be
| fine.
|
| But what happens with the spectrum if we just turn it off? The
| ~1MHz band is basically useless to digital transmission. There's
| not enough (literal) bandwidth to put anything modern on it, and
| the transmission characteristics lack the ionospheric reflections
| of short wave, so it's only a to-the-horizon kind of thing
| anyway.
|
| So do we just turn it off? Is there anything useful to do with
| it? Or is there interesting astronomy we could do without the
| interference?
|
| Maybe the reason AM radio continues limping along is that there
| really aren't any takers and this is just junk spectrum?
| JohnFen wrote:
| > So in practice everyone will just move over to podcasts and
| it'll be fine.
|
| Podcasts and radio are very different mediums. I don't think
| one adequately replaces the other.
| outworlder wrote:
| Not all applications require a lot of bandwidth.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| 1 MHz doesn't give a lot of room for frequency hopping and
| frequency modulation, but that doesn't stop it from being
| useful for digital transmission. You can still transmit zeroes
| and ones with amplitude modulation. (The hybrid HD radio tried
| that, though few Americans bought into that.) The biggest
| problem with that from micro-usage of the spectrum by personal
| devices is interference and error correction, but we're doing a
| veritable ton with Bluetooth today in one of the noisiest and
| easily interfered with bands in current regulation so there's
| certainly ideas out there to try.
|
| That said, there's also probably nothing wrong with leaving
| spectrum quiet. We don't need to fill every band possible of
| the electromagnetic spectrum with digital noise, despite how
| hungry our devices seem for additional bandwidth.
| djhworld wrote:
| The article/video mentions Tesla - curious to know if other EVs
| have omitted the AM radio from the car, or have worked around the
| inteference issues
| outworlder wrote:
| Nissan Leaf here. AM radio works fine.
|
| Given that Tesla will add it for a fee(and older Teslas had
| it), I presume its removal is not technology-related.
| vel0city wrote:
| Apparently Ford is starting to remove them from their EVs due
| to struggles related to interference. I don't listen to AM that
| much in my EV (Mach E) but the few times I have tried it seemed
| to work acceptably.
| simplyaccont wrote:
| it's gone from Volvo and I think some other cars as well (like
| BMW, Audi, etc)
| vel0city wrote:
| I've heard the comment of HD Radio being a failure multiple
| times. Personally, it doesn't seem to be true to me, as the
| majority of my radio listening happens on receivers with HD Radio
| on stations with HD Radio. I didn't even go out of my way to make
| sure I bought just the right trim of a car with HD Radio or an AV
| receiver with HD Radio, it just had it. Most of the radio
| stations in my market offer HD Radio and several have multiple
| subchannels. A few of my go-to stations are HD Radio subchannels
| as those often are operated with minimal to no advertisements
| (usually just self promotion and station ID).
|
| I realize HD Radio is pretty much US-only, but am I seemingly the
| only one actually using HD Radio?
| vermilingua wrote:
| Is HD Radio equivalent to DAB+? If so, it's alive and well in
| Australia (insofar as radio is alive and well)
| vel0city wrote:
| Yes, HD Radio is what the US went with instead of DAB/DAB+.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| Though transmitter and receiver hardware is entirely
| incompatible, so an imported car or radio from the
| EU/Australia would not be able to tune in any HD Radio
| signals.
|
| Even today, not all brand new cars and replacement head
| units include HD Radio tuners--many are still analog AM/FM
| only. Pair that with most cars and trucks on the road not
| being brand new, and market penetration is very low outside
| of people who bought the right new cars in the past few
| years.
|
| Many (but not most--yet) stations which launched HD signals
| in the past decade have since switched them off to give
| more bandwidth back to the analog signal, and to avoid
| ongoing HD licensing fees.
| taftster wrote:
| I don't listen to the radio much anymore (work-from-home keeps
| me off the road, which is where I'd normally listen to radio).
|
| But I am with you, I have found the HD sub-channels to be very
| palletable to listen to compared with the main channels. Even
| NPR is getting hard to listen to, but some of the alternative
| HD channels are quite enjoyable, especially for "unpopular"
| genres like folk, bluegrass, original (roots) country,
| Americana, 40's/50's, etc.
|
| I don't think it's a failure. Maybe it's a failure of
| monetization, but I think it's a success in terms of content
| availability and lack of advertisements.
| abawany wrote:
| I had a Pioneer car stereo with HD Radio available and I
| listened to it a lot, especially since a lot of the channels on
| there seemed to be free of ads. Once that stopped, the car
| stereo got updated to a AndroidAuto/AppleCarplay-capable device
| and I was no longer listening. So yes, you weren't the only one
| for a while but you may now be :) .
| lormayna wrote:
| Let's hope that DRM (https://www.drm.org/) will replace AM. At
| the moment, the big issue is the lack of cheap receivers.
| JohnFen wrote:
| I dunno. The disaster that was the switch to digital TV
| broadcasting makes me leery of this.
| ridgeguy wrote:
| AM radio helped kindle my lifelong interest in technology and
| music.
|
| Grew up in Alaska in the '50s. When I was 8, my Dad bagged me
| some old headphones, wire, a variable capacitor and one of those
| new-fangled 'diode detectors' from a friend at Elmendorf Air
| Base.
|
| Much coil winding and fiddling later, I was able to hear KOMA in
| Oklahoma, a great rock station. KOMA Klimbers!
|
| Nowdays, I find AM content distasteful in the extreme, hardly
| ever listen. But fond memories of an early influence.
| colordrops wrote:
| It will be once all cars are EV. The noise generated by the
| motors will make it infeasible.
| outworlder wrote:
| It's not infeasible (Tesla vehicles used to have AM radios). My
| EV has an AM radio. It works.
| daveslash wrote:
| Invoking Betteridge's law of headlines: _" Any headline that ends
| in a question mark can be answered by the word no."_
|
| AM may have it's technical limitations, specifically when
| compared to FM, but as a medium it's not dead and I doubt it's
| about to be anytime soon. It's still very popular amongst
| political talk, at least here in the U.S.
|
| Edit: spelling
| Mattasher wrote:
| That may be true, but as anecdota I had a show on one of those
| talk stations just a year ago. They broadcast on 2 frequencies
| on the FM dial, covering a wide geographic range.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| In my experience, talk and even music on AM radio in Africa is
| used more then FM. I believe this is because the cost
| associated with AM equipment costs, and the distances AM can
| cover.
|
| I can get an AM signal in the middle of nowhere with a diode
| and a bunch of wires.
| lambic wrote:
| I happened to listen to this podcast this morning which has some
| interesting things to say about this topic:
|
| https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-divided-dial/
| CharlesW wrote:
| I've never listened to AM radio on purpose, and I'm not young.
| From what I've heard, it's a content desert that consists
| primarily of religious/crackpot programming. As fewer and fewer
| new cars support AM1, the writing is on the wall, and there
| should be concrete plans to reallocate that spectrum for
| something more useful.
|
| 1 https://www.thedrive.com/news/heres-why-some-automakers-tune...
| JohnFen wrote:
| > it's a content desert that consists primarily of
| religious/crackpot programming.
|
| There's quite a lot of that stuff -- but it's not the only kind
| of programming in the dial.
| daveslash wrote:
| The only time that I've actively listened to AM purposefully
| (other than curiously "just to see what's there") is AM 1610.
| [0]. 1610 is often used in the US for Visitor Information --
| short 3-10 minute recordings on automated loop [1]. I find them
| useful when visiting a new park for the first time, and before
| I stop in the visitor center.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1610_AM
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelers%27_information_stati...
|
| [2] Yellowstone National Park 1610 recording.
| https://www.nps.gov/media/video/view.htm?id=E4A26B7F-1DD8-B7...
| generj wrote:
| As a kid, my parents got me a cheap AM transmitter toy that
| broadcast on 1610.
|
| Cutting edge tech in the early aughts, it ran on AA batteries
| and had a tape player, a microphone, and an aux in. My
| broadcasts made it across the cul-de-sac from my room. It was
| immensely enjoyable.
| CharlesW wrote:
| This is a great use of radio, thanks for pointing it out.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| I listen to AM radio for car repair, cooking tips & recipes,
| music, weather, latest news, sports, and much more.
| Arrath wrote:
| You seem like the right guy to ask: Is there a modern edition
| of Car Talk? I miss those guys so much.
| btgeekboy wrote:
| Ask the A&Ps is a podcast that's a pretty similar concept
| but for general aviation.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| Ah! Just posted about Click & Clack.
|
| I have heard some here and there, but nothing close to
| them. :'(
|
| I have heard a station in California (do not know call
| sign), the motor man, or the motoring man. There was also
| in Detroit a station where two guys tried to pick up
| similar like C&C, car show or something.
| CharlesW wrote:
| This is really interesting, and also very foreign to me given
| that all of this is available on-demand in any form you like
| (i.e. YouTube videos for car repair). Do you happen to be a
| trucker? I'm trying to imagine the scenario where AM radio
| specifically is the best way to deliver this content.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| Not a trucker. there are some areas where data is not
| available. In some countries I use pre-paid mobile phones.
| I turn off data in those places.
|
| I (try to) walk at least an hour a day. I also hike trails.
| Ever seen a bear wait for Click and Clack[0] demonstrating
| the noise a worn CV join makes? Nor have I. ;-)
|
| I have several hobbies which involve manual labour, but no
| major attention required (weeding, kneading, etc.). I can
| listen to the radio and still enjoy my hobby.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Talk
| patrick451 wrote:
| The problem with on-demand is that it takes time and energy
| to go actually demand it. With radio, if you are working in
| the garage or garden or on a jobsite, you just tune into
| some station, and you get guys talking about fixing cars or
| something and that's it. With youtube or spotify or
| whatever, you have to go search for something interesting,
| it lasts for 15 minutes, and then you have to search again.
| Or maybe you get a podcast that last an hour. But it's
| never set and forget like radio. It's all just a waste if
| time unless you have something very specific you want to
| hear, rather than just background chit chat.
| D13Fd wrote:
| I'm no expert, but it seems like that mid-frequency part of the
| spectrum could be put to much better uses.
| User23 wrote:
| Not at all. AM radio is where I get all my great financial tips
| on Gold, REITs, and vitamin supplements!
|
| More seriously, the clear-channel license holders are still a big
| deal. It's pretty amazing to be able to cover half the country
| from one transmitter. WSM out of Nashville is still relevant for
| example.
| LinAGKar wrote:
| Is AM radio a US-only thing? Because I've never heard anything
| broadcast on AM here is Sweden.
| Centrino wrote:
| AM radio (called "medium wave radio" in Europe) is still used
| in Eastern Europe, the UK, Spain etc.
|
| The last AM broadcasts in Sweden stopped in 2010, see
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B6lvesborg_medium_wave_tr...
|
| For a full list of AM radio stations in ITU region 1, see
| https://www.mwlist.org/mwlist_quick_and_easy.php
| kypro wrote:
| We have it in the UK. The BBC still broadcast on it (at least
| they did last time I tuned in). I believe there are some sports
| stations who use it too. My dad would listen to cricket on it
| in the car all the time when I was a kid.
| xxr wrote:
| Not US-only, but it appears that Sweden is indeed one of the
| countries that no longer supports it:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_wave#Use_in_Europe
| 112233 wrote:
| Shortwave on plain consumer radios is AM. A lot of stations
| there, a lot of them from China.
| BeetleB wrote:
| > On the other, companies like Tesla stopped shipping AM radio
| entirely, and if you want to add it on, they'll gladly retrofit
| your EV for $500.
|
| Reason #27 for not buying a Tesla. When you're on the highway and
| see the flashing lights saying "Tune to 520 AM for adverse road
| conditions" what are you going to do?
| buildsjets wrote:
| The same thing I've done when I've seen such a sign at any time
| in the past 52 years. Completely ignore it.
| BeetleB wrote:
| Let me give you a real scenario. I was entering a
| hilly/mountainous region, and the sign said "Tune in to AM
| 520 for rock slide information when lights are flashing" and
| the lights were flashing. You're just going to ignore that?
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > Reason #27 for not buying a Tesla.
|
| It's not a Tesla thing, really, it's an EV thing. You'll have
| to stick with ICEV for the foreseeable future if you need
| access to AM. The electric motors cause a lot of interference.
| jdminhbg wrote:
| > When you're on the highway and see the flashing lights saying
| "Tune to 520 AM for adverse road conditions" what are you going
| to do?
|
| Look at Waze to see what's actually happening, like I always
| do.
| BeetleB wrote:
| Usually these signs are on interstates in the middle of
| nowhere (e.g. mountain/forest/desert). It's not unusual not
| to have a signal.
|
| And frankly, even if you did have a signal, it's not likely
| Waze will be of much help. There are often few travelers on
| that road, and chances are none of them is using Waze.
| JohnFen wrote:
| I sure hope it isn't dead. I listen to it every day.
| rswerve wrote:
| Tesla is singled out in the article, but there's a general
| problem of interference with AM radio in electric vehicles--which
| seems like the biggest challenge for AM. There are some
| legislative rumblings to do something about it.
| https://jalopnik.com/u-s-sen-ed-markey-really-really-wants-a...
| jmbwell wrote:
| > But as more and more radio stations in the US are controlled by
| ever fewer radio conglomerates
|
| This is what's underlying it all. Following deregulation, fewer
| hands gained control of more outlets nationwide, homogenizing for
| maximum margin on advertising to the markets with the broadest
| reach. Top-40, country, r&b, at-work, alternative, and at best
| some market segmentation in parts of the country with significant
| ethnic demographics.
|
| Advertisers mainly want to pick from this menu, and AM wasn't on
| it, with the exception of nationally syndicated talk and regional
| news and sports. That put AM in a down-market position, which put
| it at lower revenues, which made profitability a bigger struggle,
| which is a big sign pointing to the "niche" door of relative
| commercial obscurity.
|
| The technical aspects are a factor in terms of appealing to
| listeners and thus advertisers, but the decisions are made
| entirely on commercial grounds.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| On FM, though, the frequencies from the bottom to 92 MHz are
| reserved for non-profit stations. You can find the local NPR
| affiliates there, but also college stations and lots of weird &
| wonderful one-offs. Like KKUP around here:
|
| https://kkup.org/
| PaulHoule wrote:
| In upstate NY you might think so. The only channel you can really
| count on during the day is the one that used to have the _Rush
| Limbaugh Show_. Around sunset though the atmosphere changes and
| there is a short time you get DX and can hear Bloomberg radio
| talking about the stock market being about to open in Hong Kong
| and then hear it fighting with the "Black Information Network"
| in Detroit.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| The BBC World Service shortwave broadcast [0] is still one of the
| few (safe) ways people can get outside news while living in war-
| torn regions and totalitarian regimes across Africa, Middle east,
| and Asia.
|
| People arguing about Audio quality are missing the point of AM:
| Robustness in adversity.
|
| Receivers are easy to put together and repair, transmission
| travels long distances beyond enemies/oppressors and unlike
| online access nobody can intercept your traffic or estimate your
| location.
|
| [0]
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2x9tqt6mc05vB2S37j...
| jsonne wrote:
| I'm the founder of an audio ads startup. To put things in
| perspective the global radio market for ad dollars is ~$35
| billion to $40 billion depending on who you ask. All of
| podcasting is $2 billion.
|
| To be clear the shift to all digital is happening but am/fm radio
| has a long ways to go before being irrelevant and this shift will
| likely take a few more decades. Don't sleep on traditional media.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _To put things in perspective the global radio market for ad
| dollars is ~$35 billion to $40 billion depending on who you
| ask._
|
| Others say $25 billion globally for terrestrial/OTA and
| satellite combined, and those physical mediums appear to be a
| shrinking slice of that. You can see the industry scrambling to
| redefine all live-streaming audio as "radio" as radio-the-
| medium evaporates.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| I think the shift away from radio is being helped by the
| overabundance of ads on that platform.
| SCNP wrote:
| And the lack of ability to just skip past them.
| 369548684892826 wrote:
| Where does DAB radio fit into this? What you're talking about
| is more about on-demand vs live, rather than analog vs digital
| isn't it?
| tony-allan wrote:
| I live in Australia and when I go on a decent road trip its
| interesting when you lose mobile phone coverage, then FM radio
| coverage leaving just AM radio.
|
| In summer you can drive along just listening to news and sport
| coverage (Cricket).
|
| In the country it is the primary source of news and emergency
| information. During flooding and bushfires most other forms of
| communication are not available especially during prolonged power
| outages.
|
| Of course, if you go outside the AM coverage area you lose that
| as well but that's a different story.
| MBCook wrote:
| Something I don't see mentioned:
|
| Some (many?) new cars don't have AM radios. And since people in
| cars seems to be a huge chunk of AM/FM radio listenership that's
| a very big problem for AM stations.
|
| I know the Mustang Mach-E removed it in the newer models.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| The article also mentions that Tesla cars dropped AM support by
| default and now sell a $500 upgrade to the radio just to get AM
| radio back.
| jsz0 wrote:
| Someone started an AM radio station in my small town which has
| managed to survive for 7+ years now so there must be a workable
| business model there. They focus on hyper-local news & sports
| coverage that you just can't get anywhere else. The really clever
| thing they did was to use the launch of the radio station and
| broadcast location downtown as advertisement for their streaming
| app. They got a lot of local news coverage and public interest
| simply by doing something unusual like starting a new AM radio
| station in a tiny town. They still do AM but I believe the vast
| majority of their listeners stream. Super clever because someone
| like my Dad would never know a streaming station existed but he
| knows they exist because he can drive by the studio and see them
| broadcasting through the window.
| danjoredd wrote:
| There are actually a few AM stations in my area. Now, if my car
| radio still worked, I would totally listen to them because when
| it DID work, there was a lot of good local news and personalities
| on there. Did my heart good to hear opinions on current events in
| my area from people actually effected by it instead of an
| outsider from a completely different city's opinion on it all.
| stronglikedan wrote:
| Not at all. And when they simultaneously try to broadcast AM
| content on FM bands, it sounds like crap. It's arguably where the
| majority of any given marketing budget goes, probably only edged
| out by FM, but maybe not.
| tasty_freeze wrote:
| It is dead to me and has been for decades. Once in a while I'll
| put on the AM band when driving and there is nothing for me.
| - hispanic music -- i don't speak spanish and not growing up with
| it, I have no connection - conservative talk radio
| -- as a liberal, I find it more terrifying than anything. hosts
| and callers will declare that liberals think this or that, or
| that we are trying to do this or that, things that I and none of
| my liberal friends would identify with. I was surprised to find
| out that liberals hate freedom and want to force our kids into
| being gay. I guess I'm way behind the curve. -
| biblical literalism - (edit) I forgot sports. does
| nothing for me.
| walrus01 wrote:
| AM radio has one value for me, if you live in a city with a 50kW
| station that has traffic announcements every 10 minutes on major
| screw-up areas/bottlenecks (bridges, tunnels, etc), you can
| sometimes get around even more efficiently than using google maps
| to drive with. And by truly not taking your eyes off the road to
| look at screens of any devices to know where the traffic problems
| are.
| ssharp wrote:
| It's certainly 99% dead for me personally but based on the ad
| dollars still flowing in, I'm assuming there is a still a big
| audience, even if it's on the decline.
|
| What's more surprising to me at this point is Sirius. I just
| don't understand how this is still a $22 billion dollar company,
| doing $9 billion in revenue and is still growing revenue. I don't
| see where the value is. I haven't subscribed in almost a decade
| but when I left, the audio quality was really bad -- terrible
| digital compression artifacts -- and there wasn't really anything
| that interesting in terms of musical programming that couldn't be
| had with a streaming service like Spotify. Maybe it's all Stern
| and sports content that's driving revenue or is there still a big
| legion of people who actually subscribe for the music?
| guestbest wrote:
| I never liked Stern. I use it because it came with the car and
| is only 5$ a month
| RC_ITR wrote:
| If you look through their releases, the growth appears to be
| coming from doing a better job of getting a free-trial included
| in almost every new car and like half of used cars (I assume
| this is done through dealer networks).
|
| Given that, if free-trials convert at a steady rate, voila, you
| have growth.
|
| In terms of why people like it:
|
| 1) There's something somewhat Tik-Tik-like about having hyper-
| specialized music served to you without putting in the work of
| building a playlist
|
| 2) Streaming services have the somewhat annoying tendency of
| 'recommending' new songs to you so they can pay the artists
| less, since they were a 'discovery' mechanism. This leads to
| bad outcomes if all you want is 80's on 8 (said differently, if
| you like 80's music, chances are you know the songs you like
| already)
|
| 3) The lowest their is $13/month, which is cheaper than a phone
| plan with more data for a lot of people
|
| 4) There's a certain 'Sunday Ticket/League Pass' element, since
| you can get the radio coverage of nearly any pro sports game
| (even in home markets I often struggle to find the radio
| coverage of certain games)
|
| 5) For the traditional satellite service, they're _broadcast
| only_ so they have _no idea_ what any subscriber is listening
| to at any point, and some people like that.
| jaywalk wrote:
| > For the traditional satellite service, they're broadcast
| only so they have no idea what any subscriber is listening to
| at any point, and some people like that.
|
| Newer cars collect data on what you're listening to and
| report back. At least on mine it can be disabled, but it is
| something that's out there.
| nekoashide wrote:
| Had it for years on the road for work and it was a life
| saver, never having to search for stations and listening to
| ads all the time. When I started working local I dropped it
| for streaming and that was good enough.
|
| A few years later I was taking a multi state trip and
| reactivated, when I got back I re-subbed both vehicles. It's
| any kind of radio with almost no interruptions and it's worth
| the price.
| bsder wrote:
| Monopsony strikes again.
|
| Sirius still exists because FM radio is absolute dogshit in the
| US thanks to the Clear Channel/iHeartMedia conglomerate
| effectively owning everything.
|
| Your FM dial is absolutely terrible unless you happen to live
| near a good college radio station or an unusual city (San Diego
| can pick up some interesting Mexican stations, for example).
| massysett wrote:
| I subscribe to the Sirius XM app. I like the music stations. I
| have Apple Music too so I could get along without it, but I
| actually like the DJs, and although I could probably find
| similar channels on Apple, some of the Sirius mixes are a bit
| unique so it's worth $10 a month to me.
|
| The app. Not the satellite. The satellite sound quality is
| horrible. I can see how satellite was worth it before 4G, but
| now I just use my phone in the car.
| WirelessGigabit wrote:
| I like road trips. And then I really find Sirius XM well
| worth the money. FM coverage is too local and choppy when
| going through hills / mountains. 5G? Yea, right. The closest
| you get is 4G from another provider, which throttles you
| (e.g. using T-Mobile, which will jump to AT&T where there is
| no T-Mobile. It'll show 4G but the speeds are slower than
| 56K).
|
| So Sirius XM there it is.
| ryanpandya wrote:
| SiriusXM plays a huge role in aviation and maritime data (e.g.
| onboard weather). I bet things like this are a large portion of
| the revenue.
| DMell wrote:
| Their sports offerings are what gets me. I watch a lot of
| hockey and use it to listen to random games while doing other
| things.
| red-iron-pine wrote:
| huh never thought about radio games. all of the streaming
| packages seem overpriced but radio might be a much crappier
| but tolerable option, with the bonus of having other radio
| channels.
|
| still gonna donate to Soma.FM tho
| ryanianian wrote:
| I actually really like SiriusXM. I have 3-4 stations that I
| play nearly constantly whether in the car, on the house sonos
| system, or while on transit. My 3-year-old car has a decent
| (stock) sound-system, and I honestly don't hear any compression
| artifacts. Their IP streaming is high-quality.
|
| Most of their music stations are basically well-curated, 4-hour
| playlists. Most channels have guest hosts/DJs that are
| legitimate to the genres (e.g. Diplo hosts his station at
| times) that update the playlists periodically. I still augment
| my music with Apple Music and podcasts, but I spend far more
| time with Sirius.
|
| The unfortunate part is that they still play stupid and hostile
| pricing games. "Promotions" that you have to call to renew to
| get the stupid $25/month charge reduced to like $7/month. At
| that price it beats Pandora, terrestrial (am/fm) radio, and
| even Spotify/Apple Music if you primarily listen to curated
| playlists.
| polygotdomain wrote:
| You sound pretty close to me to be honest. When my wife and I
| go on a long trip it makes it easy to put on in the car. I
| tend to have it on when I'm working around the house during
| the weekend. For me it fills in a void of wanting to listen
| to something more than background music, but not wanting to
| choose more than a genre that fits my mood. For whatever
| reasons all of the algorithmic "stations" that I've had on
| other services either deviate too much from what I originally
| wanted, or are too narrow and don't get enough variety.
| hellotomyrars wrote:
| As another reply said, there are plenty of places where you
| still can't get a cell signal but you can get satellite. Sirius
| is huge for Truckers for this reason. But even where I live
| (Rural) If I drive East I don't have cell signal pretty much
| until I hit I-5 once I leave the area around my town. It takes
| an hour ish to hit I-5 directly but the route I prefer to take
| if I'm headed to Longview or Portland which is the only reason
| I'd go that way is along the Columbia River and there is no
| cell signal for what is about an hour and a half of the drive.
|
| I mean my music is downloaded for offline use and I don't want
| a radio style of listening experience, but for my parents it is
| the only viable way for them to listen to music on that drive.
| And with regular radio you're going to be trying to find
| stations you want to listen to as you live in and out of range.
|
| Granted my parents also have a grandfathered lifetime
| membership.
| jjulius wrote:
| >Maybe it's all Stern and sports content that's driving revenue
| or is there still a big legion of people who actually subscribe
| for the music?
|
| My dad subscribes for Bruce Springsteen's
| channel/show/whatever. Dude just can never get enough of
| Springsteen. I'd imagine there are other fans of other artists
| doing the same.
| parasubvert wrote:
| I subscribe mostly for the music (maybe 15+ years now?),
| Spotify's algorithms are pretty crappy IMO. TIDAL's are better,
| but they're really expensive. Sirius has very good curation.
| And I like some of the DJs. News, stern and sports also factor
| in as nice to haves. It also doesn't hit my mobile data plan in
| the car.
| mastercheif wrote:
| I thought Spotify and Tidal are the same price, $10/mo
| vel0city wrote:
| Another thing that Sirius does that a lot of people aren't
| talking about is their data services. Having updated weather
| and fish maps live while you're offshore is pretty handy and
| satellite internet connections can be very pricey.
| yetanotherloser wrote:
| ...you don't need a (relatively) expensive single sideband
| set and radio-nerd tendencies to pick up weather data
| offshore where you live? That is pretty great if so. Would
| that there were more of it.
| vel0city wrote:
| I'm a little confused about your comment.
|
| This is stuff like fishing recommendations by species, sea
| surface heights, temperature contors, 30m deep temperature
| condors, plankton concentrations, weather radar, storm
| tracks, wave heights, and more and then integrated into
| common Garmin, Raymarine, Lowrance, Simrad, and other
| equipment that many boats would already have. All of that
| data constantly updated and refreshed live even when you're
| miles out to sea and can't pick up common line of sight
| style transmissions.
|
| Its not just a METAR weather report from an airport kinda
| near the shore.
| daveaiello wrote:
| The reason I subscribe to Sirius/XM is for simulcasts of news
| and business channels, listening to live sports events (while
| driving or not in front of a TV), and some of the music genre
| channels that are hosted by DJs, in that order.
|
| I am switching my subscription from satellite to streaming
| because I will save a pretty significant portion of the monthly
| fee, I stream everything else I listen to or watch at home, in
| the office, or in the car, and the CarPlay experience is much
| better when you are using 100% streaming audio.
| woofcat wrote:
| I subscribe and enjoy it. It's great to catch Formula 1 when
| I'm out and about doing errands, and for 99% of my use case the
| music side of it is just fine. Commuting to and from work I
| don't need much more than "random playlist of genre x"
|
| It works out to be $120/year, and that's with Howard Stern, and
| all the sports etc.
|
| Could I do all this streaming with my phone? Most likely,
| however with this I don't worry when I drive down into the
| States that I'm now "Roaming" or really worry about data usage
| at all. Also I don't have to think about it.
| tshaddox wrote:
| If I drove more I'd probably fork over the money for Sirius. I
| had it for free in my car for a while and it was certainly much
| better than FM stations. I did one week-long road trip in the
| Western U.S. and it was pretty cool to just keep it on the same
| station and it works even when there's no cell signal. Even
| their pop/hits stations are way better than my local FM
| stations, both in music selection/variation and obviously no
| ads/terrible DJ chatter.
|
| But with my current driving habits that's maybe one or two
| weeks a year where I would really care to have it.
| arbitrary_name wrote:
| But wouldn't Spotify music and podcasts be a better option?
| Download content for listening when you lack cell coverage?
|
| In no way am i able to understand how radio would be a better
| alternative, but thats just my own bias.
| macintux wrote:
| I can't speak for anyone else, but for $5/month or whatever
| discount I'm paying, it's well worth it to have a wide
| variety of music available on demand. I learn things I
| didn't know, hear music I'd not otherwise hear,
| occasionally they'll have well-established musicians &
| producers do a set and talk about people they know and why
| they like their music so much.
|
| I'm sure Spotify has its own advantages (I'm a long-time
| Pandora user, haven't tried it) but not having to plan
| anything in advance and having full access to all of the
| stations in the middle of nowhere is quite nice.
| tshaddox wrote:
| I'd pay $5 a month if it was going to be the permanent
| price! When I've looked into it it's more like $20 a
| month.
| eep_social wrote:
| It is always possible to get the service for about
| $5-7/month by contacting customer support and mentioning
| the price and switching to a competitor. They'll put you
| on a promo that lasts a year for $5-7/month. You, in
| turn, will put another "save $100" reminder into your
| calendar for next year before the billing date.. and the
| cycle will continue. The cycle is well documented on the
| subreddit, no need to take me at my word.
|
| Yes it's dumb but sxm also works better for my personal
| situation than Spotify etc.
| macintux wrote:
| Based on my limited time with the service (bought a new
| vehicle last January) if I let the trial period
| subscription lapse, they'll offer the lower price after a
| couple of weeks to lure me back in.
|
| I just let myself be lured, and anticipate doing so next
| time.
| tshaddox wrote:
| I already pay for Apple Music and use that the vast
| majority of the time, especially when I'm by myself. But I
| still put the local FM hits station on regularly, either as
| background music when driving with friends or family or
| just when I can't be bothered to choose something on my
| phone. I'd probably check out their genre stations and non-
| music content from time to time. It just doesn't add up to
| enough to make it worth the cost, but it could if I found
| myself driving more.
| shagie wrote:
| Locally stored podcasts work, but Spotify over the air can
| accidentally rack up some nasty data roaming charges that
| you don't realize until later. And there are significant
| stretches of the highway where cellphone data is spotty
| (pun not intended).
|
| Siris radio works everywhere you aren't driving next to
| something blocking the line of sight to the sky. It
| maintains the channel across significant distances so
| you're not hunting for "ok, what to listen to next?" (one
| time when driving to my grandparents house for Thanksgiving
| and changing the station as one faded I heard Alices
| Restaurant four times).
|
| The main thing with Siris for driving is that its got DJs
| and news and such.
|
| On my great road trip I had an iPod loaded up with songs
| and had that on shuffle for a few months... and while I had
| a few hundred hours of songs, they were all things I heard
| before.
|
| Part of listening to the radio, Spotify, or Siris is that
| the next song _might_ be something different.
|
| ---
|
| https://4m3ric4.com -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33217395
| grogenaut wrote:
| Or all the folks who live where the cell reception is sh*t (eg
| off the freeway) but can see the sky...
| cogman10 wrote:
| Are there that many people or places though? Even from my
| small hometown with a population of 300 tucked away in the
| mountains, there's 5g cell service from the major providers.
|
| I'm certain places like that exist, but I'm guessing it's far
| less than most would imagine.
|
| My bet is a non-insignificant amount of sirus's money today
| comes from their model of making subscriptions really
| annoying to cancel. And, of course, preying on old people
| that may have forgot about their subscription or don't get
| streaming.
| tjohns wrote:
| Absolutely.
|
| Driving up from the SF Bay to Tahoe, you'll lose cell
| service as you pass through the mountains - especially if
| you take the Highway 50 route. Drive up to Oregon, and
| you'll lose cell service for a long stretch roughly near
| Klamath Falls. (As an aside, that part of the country
| doesn't even have NEXRAD weather radar.)
|
| And this is all while on the freeway or major highways.
| There's plenty of places out west without a reliable cell
| signal, or sometimes a signal that's so weak that it's not
| usable for data.
| DMell wrote:
| There is a very large number of areas in Colorado that
| don't have coverage.
| jhpaul wrote:
| Where I live in New Mexico has consistently poor reception
| withing about 60 miles. My Spotify is almost always in
| offline mode since it chokes on poor signal. Radio and TV
| have repeaters on a nearby mountain that rebroadcast a few
| stations. Meanwhile Sirius works everywhere except in my
| garage.
|
| For me it mostly replaces my CD changer, which doesn't
| exist in newer cars. When I can't decide what to listen to,
| have poor signal, or don't want to fiddle with the
| controls, it gives me a nice selection on fallbacks.
| xxpor wrote:
| I didn't realize how sparse coverage was in the West until
| I moved out here. Once you're 5 minutes off of an
| interstate outside of a metro area it's pretty common still
| to have no signal.
| gt565k wrote:
| Sirius XM is still sold as a subscription and addon package to
| a lot of new vehicles so the revenue probably comes in from
| recurring monthly subscription payments that people just get
| used to paying for so they can have satellite based music
| wherever they are.
| Tangurena2 wrote:
| I think a large part of their market is that the radios come
| pre-installed in new cars. I dislike how it is impossible to
| subscribe to the middle 2 tiers of programming without actually
| placing a telephone call. I have zero interest in Stern or
| sports.
| krumpet wrote:
| AM radio is still my go-to for sports. Nothing like summertime
| and MLB on the radio while I work on a side project in the
| garage. College football and basketball too. Love those hometown
| announcers!
| quartz wrote:
| I seriously considered buying an AM radio station a few years
| ago. You can get a fully operational station and the land it's on
| for under $200k in pretty populated areas.
|
| Something about just broadcasting whatever you want into a
| protected frequency band for anyone with an antenna to hear seems
| really cool.
| 112233 wrote:
| How much electricity does an AM station burn?
| forinti wrote:
| That and content, unless you are going to broadcast only your
| own stuff.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I would be surprised if you could not find plenty of
| podcasts happy to be slotted into your schedule for no fee
| whatsoever.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| That would kick ass. Part of me wishes the FCC opened the AM
| band to "public access" (legit radio piracy -- perhaps with a
| 50W or so ceiling?) but the way the internet has unfolded
| suggests to me what a shitshow that would become.
| RajT88 wrote:
| That's why AM radio these days is incredibly weird.
|
| Lots of fire and brimstone, and right wing talk radio. Which
| isn't that weird, it's what you'd expect given our media
| ecosystem.
|
| But also really niche stuff. A friend of mine told me there's
| an AM radio station in NYC which plays nothing but Black Metal.
|
| Many of these stations carry Coast to Coast late at night,
| which is about as weird as you get.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Sounds like shortwave which is, apparently, primarily
| religious proselytizing these days.
| RajT88 wrote:
| Free-To-Air Satellite TV as well.
|
| Anything a little less mainstream which is cheap to get
| into.
| jhallenworld wrote:
| On shortwave you get the "Supreme Master"- who owns the
| Loving Hut chain of vegan restaurants. They are nice, but
| possibly a cult..
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching_Hai
|
| But late night AM, you get "Ministry in the Marketplace with
| Dr. Richard Hamlet" on WEZE 590. This is the craziest right
| wingnut radio I've ever heard, even including shortwave. Last
| week they were ranting on about the "death vaccine".
|
| "By the 1950s, America had forgotten the Biblical principles
| that it was founded on. In the mid-60s, government-controlled
| education was implemented. At that time, The Foundation for
| American Christian Education was formed to help limit that
| control by educating families and even schools on the . . ."
| UncleOxidant wrote:
| That last paragraph just sounds like your average right-
| wing Christian radio station of which there are thousands
| across the US. Heck, your last paragraph there could've
| been from Dr. Dobson on the Focus on the Family radio show
| which is quite mainstream among American Evangelicals (of
| which there are many).
|
| As for the Loving Hut restaurants... oh, _that 's_ what I
| went to downtown? It did seem culty. They were playing some
| video on a loop about world peace, etc. I've gotta say,
| though, their vegan shrimp were quite good - a very good
| approximation down to the texture.
| [deleted]
| daveguy wrote:
| Does that include licensing of the frequency or just the
| infrastructure? Even if it includes some duration of the
| license, I expect there are still regulations and red tape to
| maintain that license. And regulations about what you can
| broadcast.
| quartz wrote:
| Oh sure, the list of FCC rules is seemingly endless... but
| it's still a pretty wide margin of media and speech permitted
| especially on the "talk radio" side of things.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| The operational requirements are a bit stringent, though--
| there are certain staffing and compliance requirements for
| the studio and transmitter facilities.
|
| And even low-power AM transmission stations need an
| annoying amount of physical plant maintenance--cutting
| grass, trimming overgrowth, fixing all the random annoying
| issues that crop up when maintaining any kind of equipment
| at a remote site (theft, rodents, water ingress, cooling,
| power, comms, etc.).
| yetanotherloser wrote:
| That sounds like "being responsible for a building'. Buy
| a seagoing boat sometime to play this game on hardmode
| :-D
| kunai wrote:
| Seems like you could get the same thing with ham radio for far
| less cost (albeit far less cachet by virtue of not being ex
| officio)
| fr0sty wrote:
| Amateur radio is for 2-way communication only. No
| "broadcasts" allowed (with some _very narrow_ exceptions).
| dylan604 wrote:
| >just broadcasting whatever you want
|
| but that's not exactly true unless you wear an eye patch, roll
| your Rs when you speak, have a wooden leg, and have a parrot
| perched on your shoulder.
|
| that $200k buys you equipment and land. it does not include any
| licensing or royalty payments for the content you ultimately
| decide to broadcast. if you have a full 100k flamethrower of a
| transmitter, the utility bill for that bad boy is not something
| I'll envy from you.
| kfarr wrote:
| Funny I never thought of that now obvious fact that a radio
| transmitter like this will suck so much power it'd cost a
| bunch in electricity
| dylan604 wrote:
| while not being a radio engineer myself, i spent some time
| around them for several years. even got to go to the
| antenna farm with them on one excursion. these things are
| no joke with the electrical wiring. just seeing the size of
| knife switch disconnects is an indicator of don't mess with
| this. never mind all of the other high voltage signage.
| there's a few other fun facts of broadcast towers that
| really makes you wonder if this is something you really
| want to be doing as a "hobby"
|
| don't know the level of urban legend, but i have heard that
| BASE jumpers that climb to the top of a tower to jump will
| start to feel their fillings heat up by the time they get
| to the top.
| jhallenworld wrote:
| There is a guy around Boston who did this: Bob Bittner
|
| Bought an old Cambridge AM station for cheap.. runs at low
| power to keep the costs low.
|
| Check out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WJIB (740 AM)
|
| For years they had no commercials, but took donations (but they
| were never non-profit).
| sheepybloke wrote:
| Just wondering, how did you find them? Just googling it, or
| through craigslist, or through a friend?
| jollyllama wrote:
| Probably BizBuySell
| outworlder wrote:
| > Something about just broadcasting whatever you want into a
| protected frequency band for anyone with an antenna to hear
| seems really cool.
|
| If I ever get ridiculous amounts of money that could be burned
| on frivolous stuff like this without a worry, I'd make
| something similar to Fallout's radio stations.
| caned wrote:
| * * *
| andrewstuart wrote:
| All I listen to is AM radio, so if it's dead then maybe I am a
| zombie.
| raspyberr wrote:
| I really dislike this type of usage of the word "dead". There's
| not a general consensus on what it means. Does it mean unpopular,
| not as popular as it once was, literally unusable and
| inaccessible, or some subtle variation?
| askvictor wrote:
| I was on a multi-day hike (Tasmania, Australia) some years ago,
| where we would need to know if snow was falling further ahead, as
| the pass would be difficult in snow, so we would need to turn
| back in that case; it would be easier to turn back well before
| reaching the pass. I packed an AM radio to listen to the weather
| forecast in the morning; before sunrise, the ionosphere reflects
| AM waves, so the distance of the signal is greatly enhanced (the
| hike was in a mountainous area and had no straight-line to any
| radio towers). In fact, I couldn't get the local radio station's
| reception, but did get reception for heaps of other stations, one
| of them over 2000km away; I almost wonder if the local station
| was being drowned out by distant ones (or more likely the
| ionosphere reflection is better a shallow angles)
| alerighi wrote:
| AM radio is long gone in Europe, in Italy the last stations did
| shut down years ago. The audio quality of AM is too low for any
| practical use, and didn't evolve in the years, such as implement
| stereo transmissions. FM is much better, it can provide decent
| quality with stereo sound.
|
| Even FM will not probably be still around for much longer, even
| if I'm not in favour to the transition to DAB radio since I like
| vintage Hi-Fi systems in the end it will be abandoned,
| transmitting with digital is much cheaper since you need less
| power for a similar coverage and you can multiplex more stations
| in a single frequency.
| rpep wrote:
| In the U.K. it's still used to broadcast some national BBC
| stations (BBC R5 Live, BBC Asian Network) that aren't available
| on FM and in some more areas it's used to broadcast stations
| that are also on FM (BBC R4). They still also operate some LW!
| https://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/help-guides/fmmwlw-radio/fm-...
|
| Until two weeks ago I used to listen to Absolute Radio in my
| car over MW but they shut it down.
| parasubvert wrote:
| AM is everywhere in North America. News/sports/traffic/weather
| in particular. So it is still practical. AM Stereo even was
| thing since the late 80s, just required a receiver.
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| One of the few instances where the title being a question
| actually makes sense.
| jhallenworld wrote:
| So in Boston (which is the No. 10 radio market),
|
| https://ratings.radio-online.com/content/arb013
|
| WBZ 1030 AM (news radio) hovers around no. 5. They transmit on HD
| radio also (HD 2 on 107.9 FM), but the range is limited compared
| with AM.
|
| RKO 680 AM (local right wing talk radio) is also near the top.
|
| Conclusion: AM is not dead
| albeebe1 wrote:
| It's alive and well in my car when it comes to news. AM 1030 WBZ
| spike021 wrote:
| I still listen to baseball on the radio.
|
| Although I'll mention that nowadays it's also streaming online.
| So I really only use it with AM radio in the car.
| rfmoz wrote:
| Like shortwave broadcasting, AM have their place nowadays, it
| brings a comunication service to their target. It's true that it
| isn't as popular as before, but take a look to the postal service
| and their letters. Who writes a letter today? but you can do it
| without problem if you want.
| 112233 wrote:
| OTOH, CB radio has been lately getting harmonised and deregulated
| all over, and AM is one of the legal modulations (along with FM
| and SSB). So a lot of opportunity to enjoy "warm AM sound" with
| your neighbors, even if the cell goes down.
|
| [edit] they even have portable ones! (look up "Randy", no SSB
| though). And with a half decent SDR you can record the whole 40
| channels at once, to see if there is anything worth joining in.
| oneplane wrote:
| It is mostly dead here in Western Europe for over a decade now,
| I'm assuming a mix of relatively high cost, yet almost no
| relevance.
| hellotomyrars wrote:
| AM is here to stay for at least a few more decades. In the US
| it's a lot more scarce to find AM broadcasts that aren't either
| political or religious (often extremely so) because of the market
| for renting airtime and the longer reach than FM.
|
| But AM is still bread and butter for South/Central America and
| Africa. Not sure how much it is used in Southeast Asia but it
| wouldn't surprise me if it was still very popular there too.
|
| Eventually it'll be gone due to the inevitable March of
| technology, but it has plenty of life left in it.
| yyyk wrote:
| Cars are rather important for radio listenership. So when AV cars
| finally arrive, the effect on radio should be large - former
| drivers would be more able to consume different forms of
| entertainment in the car, and I don't think many would remain
| with radio only.
| reaperducer wrote:
| AM radio is no different than any other radio: If the content is
| good, people will listen.
|
| It's worth noting that for decades, FM was considered a graveyard
| of talk programming, with occasional classical mixed in. Today,
| the situation has been reversed.
|
| In cities where there is enough money to produce good content, AM
| radio does well. In smaller places, where there isn't enough
| money available to create good content, AM stations are very
| often relegated to satellite- and internet-fed formats.
|
| The most recent Chicago ratings I can quickly find1 (June, 2022)
| show AM doing well, with AM stations ranking #5, #11, #23, #25
| and #27 in a market of over 50 stations.
|
| But even in small places, while the FMs will dominate all day
| long, a good AM or three will dominate the morning drive when
| they present local programming.
|
| Electric cars are starting to be a problem for AM radio, which is
| why so many now have FM translators, and free internet streams.
| But AM will have a place on the air for a very long time to come.
|
| /I've worked for about a dozen different AM stations in my
| lifetime.
|
| 1 https://robertfeder.dailyherald.com/2022/06/13/chicago-radio...
| [deleted]
| adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
| the problem with AM is quality. You can't put music down it
| which really limits your options.
| floren wrote:
| Music went out over AM for decades just fine; what band do
| you think people were listening to back in the pre-TV days of
| the big console radio?
|
| I'll occasionally find a decent AM music station even these
| days, and when it's not being overwhelmed by all the modern
| RF noise, it sounds just fine.
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| The OP listed some AM stations that were near the top of
| the rating in the Chicago market. I looked at the list and
| the top two AM stations were no surprise: WBBM and WGN.
|
| It's not really a good idea to look at these two stations
| to get an idea of the health of the entire AM market. These
| two are giant class A clear channel stations that date back
| to the 1920s and the origination of AM radio licenses.
| Being in the center of the continent they can do
| omnidirectional broadcasting without "wasting" power like a
| station on the coast would. They're among the few that can
| still afford to be "local" station with very little
| syndicated content (and broadcast a lot of sports to vast
| swaths of the US and Canada that have no local professional
| sports team), and they'll probably be among the last of the
| AM stations to shut down.
| euroderf wrote:
| FWIW.. IIRC in the 70s Syracuse NY was known for having a prog
| rock station that actually broadcast on the AM band.
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