[HN Gopher] ASRock Industrial NUCS Box-1360P/D4 Review: Raptor L...
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ASRock Industrial NUCS Box-1360P/D4 Review: Raptor Lake-P Plus
Surprise ECC
Author : zdw
Score : 57 points
Date : 2023-01-29 16:31 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.anandtech.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.anandtech.com)
| dpedu wrote:
| Was there nothing mentioned about noise under load or did I miss
| it? I bought an 8 core Miniforum AMD-based nuc to use as a home
| server and it's too noisy even under slight load.
| axytol wrote:
| I had some good experience with Asus MiniPC P50 - also 8 cores,
| Ryzen. I noticed it was barely audible while running with a VM
| active.
| walrus01 wrote:
| Truly "industrial" small x86-64 PCs will have direct wiring
| terminals for 12VDC power, or -48VDC, not a consumer grade
| 110-240VAC to DC-something power brick with it.
| jcrawfordor wrote:
| Just a quick caution, I had a frustrating series of issues with
| an Asrock Industrial NUC that I ordered from Newegg. Asrock
| Industrial support was fairly helpful and responsive and it
| definitely looked like my unit specifically had a faulty
| motherboard which, well, these things happen. The caution is that
| arranging an RMA turned into a real pain between Asrock and
| Newegg. I don't think Newegg is exactly selling them gray market,
| but they are _not_ one of Asrock Industrial 's distributors,
| which seemed to be the pain point (Newegg was not actually set up
| to handle RMAs). I think it might be a better idea to buy through
| https://mitxpc.com/ which both sells direct to consumer _and_ is
| a listed Asrock Industrial distributor.
|
| To their credit Newegg did take it back and send me a replacement
| but I think it had to be escalated to management and they ate the
| cost. It took a few days and a few back-and-forths with their
| CSAs.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Newegg is a shitshow and has been for a long, long time.
|
| So many people have been burned by them, and the writing was on
| the wall as long as a decade and a half ago when they would
| purposefully not process orders for 2-3 days to get you to pay
| extra to have an order process in their warehouse in a
| reasonable period of time.
|
| It doesn't matter whether Newegg was "set up to handle RMAs"
| for Asrock. They sold you something defective. They shouldn't
| get credit for "taking it back and sending a
| replacement"...that's _required_ of them.
| jcrawfordor wrote:
| It's important to understand here that the product was well
| outside of Newegg's return period and this all occurred over
| the manufacturer's warranty. The problem is that most B2B
| manufacturers expect their distributors to handle warranty
| claims. Based on my interactions with Newegg I think they had
| gotten into this situation somewhat accidentally and may not
| have realized that the NUC was from Asrock Industrial, a
| distinct sales channel from Asrock's consumer products. Of
| course this doesn't speak positively of their internal
| processes.
|
| With this kind of product you can often find lower prices
| from distributors other than authorized ones, at the cost
| that _the warranty is not serviceable._ It 's usually
| referred to as gray-market sales. I think Newegg was
| effectively a gray-market seller here but unknowingly, as
| they were advertising Asrock Industrial's warranty even
| though they weren't authorized to service it.
| mewse-hn wrote:
| GamersNexus on youtube had an incredibly messed up experience
| returning an open box motherboard to newegg and made a whole
| video series about it. They actually got an interview with
| newegg execs, some of whom had only been there a few months and
| have already left the company.
| thedaly wrote:
| And this is why I buy exclusively from Microcenter. My
| sympathies to those without local access to one.
| inetknght wrote:
| [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fnXsmXzphI
|
| [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL-eB_Bv5Ik
|
| [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1R4wbuXFII
|
| I didn't hear that the Newegg Execs he talked to have already
| left the company though. Where's that info?
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| From what I understand, these boxes are sold by ASRock as B2B.
| Does anyone have experience ordering them as a consumer (non-
| business)?
| laweijfmvo wrote:
| Newegg carries the previous generations
| intrasight wrote:
| That would be a great home server machine. But would like to know
| the price, and to better understand this "pseudo-ECC"
| amelius wrote:
| The price is $700 (bare-bones) to $1050 (the configuration as
| discussed in the article without OS).
| wil421 wrote:
| In-band ECC is likely a lot more marketing speak and a lot less
| ECC. The way I look at ECC is like this, no extra die no ECC.
|
| In band "ECC" DIMMS store the ECC bits on the same memory chips
| using the same lanes as the data. Side band ECC uses dedicate
| lanes and a dedicated memory chip. If you don't have 9 chips on
| your RAM sticks you have some marketing version of ECC
| (cheaper).
| wmf wrote:
| In-band ECC isn't as strong as chipkill but it will correct
| errors. It's not fake.
| csdvrx wrote:
| Not ECC to me. I want to see the reports with EDAC or
| something else.
| wmf wrote:
| Like this? https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/linux-
| edac/patch/202011...
| wil421 wrote:
| I didn't call it fake but I am hesitant to adopt something
| that doesn't have a need. Is it better and more reliable or
| is it cheaper for the manufacturer to produce?
|
| My money is on it being cheaper to produce and with no
| benefit to the consumer. The anandtech author even states
| in band deserves more investigation.
|
| ZFS stores the error correcting bits on the same physical
| drive as the data. It's not unheard of to do it that way.
| wmf wrote:
| _My money is on it being cheaper to produce and with no
| benefit to the consumer._
|
| This is completely wrong. You're just making up theories.
|
| _ZFS stores the error correcting bits on the same
| physical drive as the data._
|
| This isn't right either.
| ndneighbor wrote:
| Kinda a stupid comment from me but I am wondering why Framework
| doesn't get into the NUC business. The ASRock NUCs usually retail
| from $750-$650 and that's around the cost of an upgrade kit from
| Framework. Considering that most industrial compute is mostly
| dealing with long lived deployments of edge hardware, it seems
| like the sort of stuff that their emphasis on ecosystem can help
| here.
|
| Anyways, I should stop my homelab hobby even though I find this
| stuff fun. I might pick this up regardless.
|
| https://frame.work/products/12-gen-intel-upgrade-kit?v=FRUPG...
| https://mitxpc.com/collections/ultra-small-form-factor/nuc-1...
| newman314 wrote:
| Still waiting for a NUC with built in 10G that can run ESXi. It's
| strange that this isn't a yet a thing.
| lizknope wrote:
| There are some small form factor machines here with 10G but
| they aren't cheap
|
| https://mitxpc.com/collections/mini-server
| jeffbee wrote:
| I used to want 10ge on my NUC then I bridged it via Thunderbolt
| to a machine that does have 10ge and that has been
| satisfactory.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| Does Ethernet over TB only pretend to be 10GbE but is
| actually faster or does it only use 10 Gibbons of the
| available bandwidth?
| wmf wrote:
| People have gotten 17 Gbps so it's not limited to 10.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Yeah I actually expected it to be 20 but it's just short
| of that. Not complaining.
| z3t4 wrote:
| Why not add a fan and heatsink to it?
| ianai wrote:
| I don't see ECC mentioned in any actual specs linked/listed
| (could have missed it). Hope this isn't taken out after this
| first run.
| skazazes wrote:
| These small boxes make for great homelab servers. I use a Topton
| box from AliExpress[1] as a router/VM/container host and love it.
| It has an iGPU in case SHTF, and 4 individual 2.5GB Ethernet
| ports. The only thing it really lacks is out of band management.
|
| Run pfsense/opn in a VM, plug in WAN/AP/NAS/Desktop and you have
| a lightning fast network/development lab (by home use standards
| at least).
|
| Even if you were not planning on using it as a lab, one of these
| kinds of boxes and a strong AP beats out even the high-end
| consumer focused routers all in ones without breaking a sweat at
| ~50W
|
| A long time ago I ran a rack-mount Dell R710 with an external
| disk shelf. It drew ~600W from what I remember and had a fraction
| of the power
|
| [1]
| https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804669109631.html?spm=a2g...
| sschueller wrote:
| Even if you want to do 25gbit + you are still better off
| building a custom pc [1] than buying any dedicated routing hw.
| At least right now they are still very loud and cost way more.
| Plus as you said you can use it as a vm host for all kinds of
| stuff.
|
| [1] https://sschueller.github.io/posts/wiring-a-home-with-
| fiber/...
| wil421 wrote:
| I use an i3 on an x11 Supermicro board with ecc memory.
| Upgrading to 10gbit was easy. Once hardware costs comes down
| I may go to 25 or 100.
| csdvrx wrote:
| Is ECC an option?
| 404mm wrote:
| ... but you are comparing a reasonably priced Chinese box with
| multiple LAN (ideal for router) with a $1000 single Ethernet
| box. Kinda not the same thing.
|
| I like used enterprise level small factor PCs for home server.
| Lots of cheap parts on eBay, decent performance and low TDP.
| For example, HP EliteDesk 800 series.
| blibble wrote:
| I'd love it if someone produced a reasonably priced mini-pc
| with a pci-e slot
|
| (of course it wouldn't be so mini...)
|
| more or less like servethehome's tinyminymicro project (but not
| relying on used equipment from 3 years ago)
| AlbertoGP wrote:
| Do you know about the Minisforum B550?
|
| It has an external PCI-E 16x male port that goes into a small
| dock/riser where you can plug a graphics card for instance.
|
| https://droix.co.uk/blogs/minisforum-b550-review/
|
| A second review with a different conclusion:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihcGnBjUAm4
|
| Not so reasonably priced, so it maybe does not fit your
| criteria.
| Lammy wrote:
| You can get flexible risers to turn the m.2 slot into a PCI-e
| 4x
| 1MachineElf wrote:
| ECC would be significant since the vast majority of these kinds
| of devices lack it.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| The thing is not remotely "industrial", but I guess that label is
| an attempt to justify the outrageous pricetag. It's firmly
| office, maybe light commercial at best.
|
| The review itself mentions that the design is based off a
| consumer product and they only altered the cooling vent location
| to accommodate a new motherboard layout.
|
| This is aimed at customers like the previously-on-HN JesusChicken
| chain which is placing NUCs at every store. Even then: I'd expect
| better sealing.
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(page generated 2023-01-31 23:00 UTC)