[HN Gopher] Marie Kondo Gives Up
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       Marie Kondo Gives Up
        
       Author : Brajeshwar
       Score  : 54 points
       Date   : 2023-01-29 16:39 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gizmodo.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gizmodo.com)
        
       | Existenceblinks wrote:
       | People seem to have expectation that it needs to be 100% nice and
       | clean arrangement. Just like clean code, it's fine as long as you
       | can find stuff, add more stuff to it and all are still easily to
       | find and add.
        
         | AussieWog93 wrote:
         | That's a really good analogy.
        
       | cmdialog wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | fatfox wrote:
       | Nobody will regret having spent less time tidying and more time
       | with their kids.
       | 
       | Being a parent is stressful, but you'll never get that time back.
       | And as cheesy as it sounds: observe them, listen to them and play
       | with them and you'll see the world from a whole new perspective.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | She's just saying that with three kids, she's given up on keeping
       | her home clean at all times. That makes sense, anything else
       | would be insane. She's not saying "give up, live in a pig sty."
        
       | dctoedt wrote:
       | Related WaPo article (gift link): https://wapo.st/40d5TNv
        
       | kevinventullo wrote:
       | The last two paragraphs seem to have missed the point. She's not
       | doing this because she "deserves a break" or wants to "stew in
       | her own slop". It is a conscious decision to trade time spent
       | tidying for time spent with kids. I imagine the latter is
       | probably more exhausting!
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | What sparks joy for me is not reading pieces of junk that defame
       | a person's character because they are now vulnerable. Imagine
       | having a new kid under 2 and you mention in a random interview
       | your life is a little messy right now. The media then takes this
       | idea of a huge contradiction of a public figure a little too much
       | to heart and starts writing slander pieces.
       | 
       | Envy is such a terrible human trait.
        
         | commoner wrote:
         | Did you read the original Washington Post article that TFA is
         | referencing?
         | 
         | https://www.washingtonpost.com/home/2023/01/26/marie-kondo-k...
         | 
         | Marie Kondo released a new book last November (Kurashi at Home)
         | which describes her change in direction. This publicity for her
         | book is in no way unflattering to her, and I expect that she
         | would enjoy the sales gained from the extra attention.
        
           | thenerdhead wrote:
           | Yes thanks for pointing it out, I just wrote a comment above
           | regarding how this is likely just the media manipulating
           | public opinion and a typical tactic used for best sellers.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ChrisClark wrote:
         | Well, you should actually read this one then. It's is full
         | support of her and thinks it is a good idea.
         | 
         | Reading comments from people who did not read the article does
         | not spark joy for me.
        
         | bigbluedots wrote:
         | The article is very supportive of her! There is no slander in
         | it at all. What the hell is wrong with people
        
         | nmz wrote:
         | How is this envy?
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | What sparks joy for me is calling out people that didn't read
         | the article before commenting.
         | 
         | It has literally nothing defamatory, on the contrary.
        
         | CommieBobDole wrote:
         | I read your comment before reading the article, and expected to
         | find some sneering torrent of vitriol seething with hatred for
         | Marie Kondo and everything she stands for.
         | 
         | Instead it was a bubbly little wisp of a human interest piece
         | with a joke at the end about the rest of us now being free to
         | stew in our own slop. It seems to be poking the mildest of fun
         | at Kondo's admission that having kids doesn't leave her a lot
         | of time to tidy up to the same standards she used to.
         | 
         | And I assume we both read the same linked article. I guess this
         | just shows how one's own experiences and resulting
         | preconceptions affect perception of the same material; and that
         | applies to both of us.
        
           | jstarfish wrote:
           | It's unflattering and serves no purpose other than to
           | discredit her as an ideology.
           | 
           | Even the title prefix "Relatable:" betrays this. Our role
           | models aren't supposed to be _relatable,_ they 're supposed
           | to be _better_ than us.
           | 
           | Showing us that they aren't is just the adult equivalent of
           | telling kids Santa isn't real. It doesn't spark Joy, it
           | crushes Hope. Trolling masquerading as journalism.
           | 
           | (FFS, people are still trying to find dirt on Fred Rogers.
           | Leave the man alone and let the rest of us believe that not
           | everyone and everything on this rock needs to be awful 24/7.)
        
             | commoner wrote:
             | There's nothing negative about describing a celebrity as
             | relatable. Relatability is something most celebrities these
             | days strive for in order to portray themselves as more
             | authentic to their audience. For celebrities that heavily
             | rely on social media, relatability attracts followers and
             | sales.
             | 
             | https://www.diggitmagazine.com/articles/supposed-
             | authenticit...
             | 
             | https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/apr/05/its-genuine-
             | yo...
        
               | jstarfish wrote:
               | Fair point, but she started as a guru selling an Idea.
               | She's a celebrity after that.
               | 
               | I think I'm just angry that she sold out. Relatability in
               | terms of acknowledging you don't/can't eat your own
               | dogfood makes the whole thing feel like a betrayal.
               | 
               | (...not unlike watching Rachael Ray go from being a
               | celebrity chef to a name on a line of _literal_ dog
               | food.)
        
           | thenerdhead wrote:
           | Yes agreed that perceptions can be significantly different.
           | 
           | Another perspective is these types of articles are designed
           | by media manipulators to be polarizing so they generate more
           | clicks. There's plenty published in the last 24 hours on her
           | in this vein that will show you what I'm talking about.
           | 
           | I mean she did just release a new book and this tactic isn't
           | unheard of for best sellers to climb.
           | 
           | The most powerful predictor of what spreads online is anger.
           | Monetizing on humiliation is common too.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | The content of the article is good. The title is clickbait.
           | (But what isn't nowadays?)
        
         | happytoexplain wrote:
         | This description is in a different universe from the actual
         | article. This is an enormously negative criticism of something
         | that this isn't an instance of, and since your criticism is
         | about the negativity of the author, it seems pretty
         | hypocritical.
        
         | MR4D wrote:
         | > Envy is such a terrible human trait.
         | 
         | There's a reason it's one of the 7 Deadly Sins.
        
           | bigbluedots wrote:
           | Yes, in a series of made up tales about faeries in the garden
        
         | anderspitman wrote:
         | > To which Gizmodo says: good for her!
        
       | Shank wrote:
       | > Kondo gave birth to her third child in 2021
       | 
       | I don't have children, but all parents I've talked to have
       | indicated that you can compare having a child to having a
       | hurricane in your house, in terms of stability, organization,
       | chaos, etc. A third child in 2021? Yeah, I'm not surprised.
       | 
       | > "Now I realize what is important to me is enjoying spending
       | time with my children at home." To her, focusing on family over
       | folding is time spent "the right way for me at this time, at this
       | stage of my life."
       | 
       | Would anyone fault _any_ parent for wanting to spend more time
       | with their children, especially really young ones, after they 're
       | born? This piece comes off as really brash to me. She isn't
       | giving up -- she's living life.
        
         | iambateman wrote:
         | I have two children and there was the syrup from a mandarin
         | orange snack cup flying through the air about an hour ago.
         | 
         | Mercifully, it's nap time.
         | 
         | Hurricane is such a good term.
        
         | smugma wrote:
         | I have three kids and enjoyed the article, and forwarded to the
         | few other parents I know (except one, who still keeps her house
         | crazy clean because she has lots of professional help) with
         | three kids.
         | 
         | The spirit was "Even Marie Kondo can't keep a clean house with
         | three kids!"
        
         | dicriseg wrote:
         | Yep, that's a good description. And unless you're paying
         | someone to come clean and straighten up (cleaning, organizing,
         | and ongoing maintenance are all different concerns!), there is
         | a large amount of time that you need to trade off in order to
         | do that yourself. Your kids will only be kids for so long, so
         | fuck the constant organizing routine and spend your time with
         | them. Be reactive and just clean up when you need to, and shove
         | things into a closet when people come over or whatever. My kid
         | is almost 11 now, and the worst realization is that I'm way
         | past the half way mark in the time that I have with them at
         | home as my kid. I'll have plenty of time to put my shit away
         | when I'm missing them while they're away at college and then
         | building their own life.
         | 
         | My spouse is a professional organizer. It's a cool field, with
         | a mix of helping people maintain a high end appearance, and
         | also helping others who are literally trying to dig their lives
         | out from the living room. Our home doesn't look like a
         | completed job, though. There will (hopefully) be time for that
         | later.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | The response to the change on her part is framed by the
         | cultural craze around her earlier advice, and the demographic
         | within which it was influential.
         | 
         | Its not really about her, per se.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mr3martinis wrote:
       | My personal experience is that her book's process and tips are
       | really helpful for living in small spaces and when you want to
       | refresh your home. That's true even if you don't follow it to a T
       | - you just need to use what works for you.
       | 
       | What I got from the philosophy is being more deliberate about
       | what I own and how I maintain things, and an awareness of the
       | subtle effects of clutter.
       | 
       | This isn't a great piece of journalism, but I hope that she
       | shares more about adapting her principles to different situations
       | and stages of life.
        
       | danielfoster wrote:
       | I'm sure whatever Marie Kondo's definition of giving up is, it's
       | much different from your own. For example in her latest book, she
       | describes leaving housework such as the dishes for the next day
       | (probably morning) because she is too tired.
       | 
       | This does not mean you can continue being a messy unorganized
       | American who waits a week to do the dishes.
        
         | unsupp0rted wrote:
         | I've heard people in other countries are starting to emulate
         | the American concept of being reluctant to do the dishes
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | Do Americans not have dishwashers? They are almost standard
           | in my country and completely eliminate this problem. Not
           | having one feels like not having a washing machine for your
           | clothes.
           | 
           | I'll admit if I have a dinner party that goes till late, I'll
           | often leave the dishes on the table but then move them to the
           | dishwasher first thing in the morning.
        
         | djur wrote:
         | Marie Kondo's lifestyle has no effect on what I can and cannot
         | do in my own life, nor would she ever claim it does.
        
         | Turing_Machine wrote:
         | > This does not mean you can continue being a messy unorganized
         | American who waits a week to do the dishes.
         | 
         | Being an American means that random people don't get to tell
         | you what you're allowed to do.
        
         | rjh29 wrote:
         | She just had her third kid too. Sounds like her need for
         | tidiness in the face of having three kids was taking up a lot
         | of time/energy and she realised spending time with her family
         | was more important.
        
           | 10729287 wrote:
           | Or she just want to launch a new trend as she milked as much
           | as she can the former and it's now dried out ?
        
             | rjh29 wrote:
             | My brain went there too but she doesn't appear to have a
             | book or TV show that matches the article.
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | I am pretty sure people who leave dishes out for a week will be
         | unaffected by her leaving them out for a day. They will be able
         | to leave them put as before.
        
         | 1659447091 wrote:
         | >This does not mean you can continue being a messy unorganized
         | American who waits a week to do the dishes.
         | 
         | True. It is much easier to just throw away the dirty dishes
         | (they did not spark joy). But that starts to get expensive and
         | it was much easier to just eat out of the can, or these days -
         | thankfully - the grocery store makes complete ready to cook
         | healthy whole food single meals oven ready. Only need to own
         | utensils and a coffee cup now
         | 
         | Seriously (I mean that did happen, but) I am guessing whatever
         | her 'giving up' is, is better than all of my best efforts
         | combined.
        
         | sparky_z wrote:
         | Sure I can.
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | It was a brief fad movement, perhaps. She had a good idea, wrote
       | a successful book, made plenty of money and then reality sort of
       | set in when she had kids. Life moves on, things change.
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-29 23:02 UTC)