[HN Gopher] Grid Beam
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Grid Beam
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 166 points
       Date   : 2023-01-29 07:07 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gridbeam.xyz)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gridbeam.xyz)
        
       | tgsovlerkhgsel wrote:
       | Tip for people trying to advertise something: You have a limited
       | amount of time to get people's attention. Once a video is longer
       | than 2-3 minutes, people's willingness to even start watching it
       | goes down, and you better show something interesting in the first
       | 20 seconds.
       | 
       | 1 minute into the video is the first time they even mention the
       | product. Which happens to look suspiciously like standard pieces
       | I've seen in the hardware store.
        
         | ddellacosta wrote:
         | The video was not produced by the people making Grid Beam, but
         | by Kirsten Dirksen, who covers all kinds of
         | DIY/Sustainable/etc. unique and largely housing-related things
         | https://www.youtube.com/@kirstendirksen
        
         | thewebcount wrote:
         | Also, if your YouTube hosted video that's an ad for your
         | product has other ads inserted into it by the platform, it's
         | probably too long.
        
         | metacritic12 wrote:
         | Would also add that having an autoplay background showing a few
         | different uses of your product in 5 second cut clips would be
         | effective too. Right now I have a hard time telling in 10
         | seconds of landing what the product does.
        
       | almostarockstar wrote:
       | Looks like you could do some damage with those bolts on the chair
       | if you caught on them.
       | 
       | But this is a cool concept.
        
       | MisterBastahrd wrote:
       | Oh, so a wooden Erector set, just bigger.
        
       | Vaskerville wrote:
       | Ken Isaacs - How to Build Your Living Structures
       | 
       | https://archive.org/details/How.To.Build.Your.Own.Living.Str...
        
         | sitkack wrote:
         | I came to post this. I got this spiral bound techno hippie book
         | at the bookstore when I was 12. Blew my mind.
        
         | fsloth wrote:
         | Wow, this is awesome, thanks for sharing. Perhaps a bit jury
         | rigged, but I love the ingenuity and the rough aesthetics.
        
       | ilyt wrote:
       | I mean, it's cute but I'm pretty sure most DIYers own a drill. Or
       | wood glue.
       | 
       | "A bunch of holes in a matrix" is useful if say you're designing
       | a wall where you want to attach different things at different
       | positions, but for anything else permanent you can just... buy
       | the raw stock and drill them at exact spot you _need_
       | 
       | My experience with something smaller scale (Makerbeam, screws
       | used to press fit instead of holes so it can be screwed together
       | at near-any position, not just at hole position) is that in the
       | end it's nice to prototype but there will be inevitably either
       | too short or too long piece and when you need to start cutting
       | them the benefits go out of the window
       | 
       | Having holes everywhere isn't also great from furniture
       | perspective, harder to clean and might not exactly be
       | aesthetically pleasing
        
         | TOGoS wrote:
         | > I mean, it's cute but I'm pretty sure most DIYers own a
         | drill. Or wood glue.
         | 
         | I do, and I use them to make gridbeam.
        
         | elil17 wrote:
         | I use 80/20 (this is a version 80/20 ready tube with a wooden
         | option) all the time at work to build temporary (and sometimes
         | permanent) desks, tables, cabinets, and test stands.
         | 
         | There are a few advantages of predrilled hardware like this:
         | 
         | 1) Holes always line up (don't need to worry about drilling
         | off-center)
         | 
         | 2) only one tool needed (bandsaw to cut to length), reduces how
         | many people need to get safety training on other tools
         | 
         | 3) compatibility across a wide variety of components (brackets,
         | rollers, etc)
         | 
         | 4) quickly reposition furniture without the need for any power
         | tools
         | 
         | 5) no measuring, just count holes
         | 
         | I would view this as having a few applications for home use:
         | 
         | 1) anyone who moves frequently - easy to flat pack everything,
         | easy to customize for a new space
         | 
         | 2) Anyone may want to build temporary for various projects
         | (e.g. sewing table this month, drafting table the next)
         | 
         | Not sure about cleaning for home applications. At work we just
         | spray everything down but perhaps you could use grommets.
        
           | blacksmith_tb wrote:
           | "Lining up" is a huge time-saver - compare making some
           | shelves out of wood, where you will want to be fairly careful
           | to measure the position of each shelf on each side to make
           | them square and level, with "count 20 holes down on each
           | side" (and I say this as someone who mostly knocks things
           | together out of wood since I have more of it around - but
           | still admire the Lego-esque predictability of extrusions).
        
           | ilyt wrote:
           | 80/20 and other T/V slotted things seems like better approach
           | for system like that
        
             | convolvatron wrote:
             | I've started collecting a system of 1" steel tube (sadly
             | now 3USD/ft). make little 90 degree clamps out of 1 1/4
             | tube (w/ 1/8 walls) that have been cut down the middle the
             | long way. weld little flanges on em and tap one side.
             | 
             | now you can pretty much go wild. desktop? throw some of the
             | 1 1/4 on the bottom and you can just plug in the legs.
             | monitor? make a bracket with a 10cm x 10cm vest plate
             | welded on. wall panels in wood or steel with 1" backing
             | frames? make some clamps with 2 1/2 and 1/4 wall tube
             | 
             | the 1/16 wall tube is fairly easy to cut with a manual
             | hacksaw. get a portaband if you are spending too much time.
             | 
             | I really do think everyone is easily capable of learning to
             | do this kind of work with a minimal investment of time and
             | tooling and really can't imagine why people don't just make
             | their own shelving and other basic furniture.
        
         | morsch wrote:
         | I'm not a DIYer and I don't own a drill. Having something like
         | this be widely available and affordable would be a game changer
         | for me.
        
           | Enginerrrd wrote:
           | This type of thing is already available, in many different
           | forms.
           | 
           | https://www.grainger.com/category/electrical/conduit-
           | fitting...
        
           | justsomehnguy wrote:
           | >don't own a drill
           | 
           | Power drill is $50 and would serve you at least 10 years and
           | is a must for any home. Hand saw is enough.
           | 
           | >affordable
           | 
           | Pre-drilled set can't be cheap, that's the catch. $15 for a
           | meter of beam? Ridiculous.
        
             | morsch wrote:
             | I borrowed a friend's drill for a week when I moved in and
             | had to use it like twice. I haven't missed it since. What
             | you consider a must is just stuff taking up space for me.
             | I'll buy one when I need it.
             | 
             | And I'm not going to start building my own furniture with a
             | saw and a drill. I wish I had that kind of time or energy,
             | there's a thousand things I'd do if I had.
             | 
             | I'm pretty sure pre drilled sets could be cheap with the
             | right economy of scale. I doubt it'll get there, though.
        
               | ilyt wrote:
               | > And I'm not going to start building my own furniture
               | with a saw and a drill
               | 
               | And you wont with that. You will buy it, maybe build 2
               | things, then decide they are fucking ugly and buy
               | something off ikea, putting the holey sticks back into
               | the box and never touching them again. Then complain they
               | were more expensive than the ikea thing.
        
       | TOGoS wrote:
       | My sister asked me the other day "is gridbeam a thing?" and I
       | said "yes, for me and about 5 other people in the world." Nice to
       | see it make the front page of HN. I had been trying to come up
       | with a modular construction system for years and when I
       | discovered gridbeam it was pretty game-changing. Not so much
       | because it saves me from having to do any woodworking, though
       | being able to re-use the parts is nice when it happens, but more
       | because it provides a framework within which I can design parts
       | and know they'll all be compatible with each other. If this desk
       | project doesn't work out, I know it'll be easy to re-use
       | everything. More thoughts: https://www.nuke24.net/plog/26.html
        
       | A_Duck wrote:
       | Reminds me of Dieter Rams' Vitsoe shelving system:
       | https://www.vitsoe.com/gb/606/components
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | I'm quite a fan of String shelving and furniture, it's similar
         | to Vitsoe but a little more affordable:
         | https://stringfurniture.com/
         | 
         | It's also a mid-century design by couple Kajsa & Nisse
         | Strinning.
        
       | mkarliner wrote:
       | The UK has this for decades.
       | 
       | It's call Dexion.
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | I now have visions of a chair made of Dexion, with nasty sharp
         | edges and cuts on my legs...
         | 
         | I wouldn't exactly call them equivalent, similar concept yes,
         | but a timber frame is more accessible to hobbyist and more
         | "home" friendly.
        
         | davnicwil wrote:
         | I googled Dexion and found this company [0] but it looks like
         | it does shelving more in an industrial setting - warehouses and
         | such. Do they also have products that allow you to do more DIY
         | projects for the home like small shelves, desks etc, or is it a
         | different company / brand?
         | 
         | [0] https://www.dexion.co.uk/products/
        
       | butlersean wrote:
       | Metric or imperial measurements?
        
         | wolfskaempf wrote:
         | There are examples for both. The system can work in any unit
         | system because it relies on the equality between width of the
         | beams and the width between holes.
        
       | azubinski wrote:
       | So, what's interesting here?
       | 
       | It's not new, it's something like scaled Meccano from 1901. In
       | its scale it's useless cause of reliability of fastenings over
       | time, dust and ugly appearance. DIY is (typically) quite the
       | opposite. Let it be, but you have to lose your childhood to buy
       | something like that.
        
       | eterps wrote:
       | This concept should be much more common.
        
         | saboot wrote:
         | I desperately hope something like this gets popular. I see one
         | off ideas every now and then but there's not one big system
         | that's easily purchasable yet.
        
           | ilyt wrote:
           | They kinda are but they are also quite pricy compared to raw
           | materials. And there is not that much market for "DIY but
           | overpay for materials instead of getting actual drill and
           | some fasteners"
        
         | Kukumber wrote:
         | It is already super common, this is the basics of DIY projects
        
           | eterps wrote:
           | I looked for it several times online and DIY stores but never
           | seen anything like this (at least not for constructing
           | objects of that size).
        
       | yourapostasy wrote:
       | Someone created a CNC mill to make Grid Beams [1]. However, I
       | cannot find anything authoritative on whether Grid Beam itself is
       | open source.
       | 
       | [1] https://hackaday.com/2017/09/27/beamcnc-computer-
       | controlled-...
        
         | TOGoS wrote:
         | > whether Grid Beam itself is open source
         | 
         | "Grid beam is a system of beams in which the width of each beam
         | is equal to the hole spacing."
         | 
         | There's your source right there.
        
       | nvartolomei wrote:
       | This is pretty much real scale lego.
        
         | hugs wrote:
         | Literally! The mathematical requirement for grid beam is that
         | the width of the beam matches the hole-to-hole distance in the
         | beams. Lego technic beams are 8mm wide, and the hole-to-hole
         | distance is 8mm. Lego is small-scale grid beam.
         | 
         | Example grid beam tri-joint made with Lego Technic pieces:
         | https://twitter.com/hugs/status/1619804592199577601
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | webkike wrote:
       | Wood's pretty re-usable as is, and these look ugly as sin
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rustyminnow wrote:
       | Wow! Love to see this here! I'm currently sitting at a desk made
       | of Grid Beam!
       | 
       | Grid Beam is great for prototyping, temporary projects, or
       | furniture where you'd want customizability/flexibility. Folks are
       | right about the aesthetic - it ain't pretty. But the flexibility
       | is well worth it for some things.
       | 
       | TLA suggests buying a kit but you can make it yourself - I bought
       | a drill press and a bunch of 2x2s and went to town. It's a time
       | sink for sure, but once you've got a bunch of "sticks" (as they
       | call them) drilled and standing by, you can quickly put together
       | all sorts of things. Last weekend my SO wanted some shelves for
       | growing her seed starts and in less than half an hour we built
       | them out of Grid Beam. When the seed starts are done, we'll take
       | the shelves apart and the Grid Beam can be re-used for the next
       | project.
       | 
       | Basic DIY instructions: cut 2x2s to lengths of 3, 6, 9, 12
       | inches, and multiples of 6 inches after that (1', 1.5', 2', etc).
       | Drill holes 3/4" inch apart. The first holes should be 3/8" from
       | each end. I use 5/16" holes I think, and 1/4-20 bolts.
       | 
       | Some other projects I've made with grid beam:                 -
       | my desk       - a card table       - a bike stand for maintenance
       | - a music stand
       | 
       | Other things I think it would be great for:                 - 3d
       | printer enclosure (beats a lack stack in customizability)       -
       | High school plays: stage furniture/sets/props (painted of course)
       | - garage furniture - work bench, shelves, etc
       | 
       | The "Grid Beam book"[1] has loads of tips for making your own
       | grid beam, project tips and ideas, and more.
       | 
       | Some more resources:                 - Read a sample of "The Grid
       | Beam Book"[2]       - Buy it from the publisher [1]       - Open
       | source design for a Grid Beam making machine [3]            [1]
       | https://newsociety.com/books/h/how-to-build-with-grid-beam-
       | pdf?sitedomain=us&undefined       [2] https://books.google.com/bo
       | oks?id=H9D4l0q96vAC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_vpt_buy#v=onep
       | age&q&f=false       [3]
       | https://www.core77.com/projects/69637/BeamCNC-Works-with-Common-
       | Materials-to-Help-Produce-Grid-Beam-Projects
        
       | Archelaos wrote:
       | Reminds me of Fischertechnik:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischertechnik
        
         | odabaxok wrote:
         | Or Merkur (Constructo, Build-O, Tecc):
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkur_(toy)
        
       | steve_taylor wrote:
       | I would caution against using something like this for a bunk bed
       | or loft bed. It's a potentially fatal accident waiting to happen.
       | At the very least, you should stick to a design that has been
       | thoroughly tested and rated for load. Even so, the temptation to
       | modify it is always there, especially for kids. And as a parent,
       | it may not be obvious when it's been modified because there are
       | holes all over the place.
       | 
       | As you can probably tell, I'm a parent with kids who have used
       | bunk beds and loft beds.
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | There are two separate concerns here.
         | 
         | Is the design adequate?
         | 
         | Will children do something risky?
         | 
         | "Yes," and "Yes" irrespective of how their bed is built.
         | 
         | Conversation is the second best way to address the second
         | "Yes."
         | 
         | Play the best way.
        
           | cjrp wrote:
           | That's why designs of things like beds have to prevent them
           | getting their necks caught, for example. There was a
           | carpenter selling custom beds in the UK, but there were a
           | number of fatal accidents because he hadn't designed it
           | properly.
        
             | ivanbakel wrote:
             | Source on this? Quick websearch didn't reveal anything.
        
               | cjrp wrote:
               | https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/toddler-
               | almost-ha...
        
               | llanowarelves wrote:
               | Just saw a video the other day of people cutting a chair
               | because a kid went through it legs-first and got stuck.
               | 
               | It's a design consideration I hadn't thought that much
               | about.
               | 
               | It's like the image of getting stuck in one of those
               | spiral "ladders"(?) on the playground, by climbing down
               | the middle of it.
        
         | hugs wrote:
         | I generally agree, especially for kids' furniture, but the pre-
         | drilled grid-beam compatible beams from McMaster-Carr[1] (which
         | is likely just 80/20 Ready Tube) are incredibly strong. I've
         | made a bunch of office desk & table structures and they are
         | still going strong years later.[2][3]
         | 
         | [1]: Aluminum Bolt-Together Framing
         | https://www.mcmaster.com/product/8809T7
         | 
         | [2]: Grid-beam office tables
         | https://twitter.com/hugs/status/824028862753439744
         | 
         | [3]: Grid-beam office tables
         | https://twitter.com/hugs/status/1089303146533396481
        
         | dtgriscom wrote:
         | That bunk bed design looks pretty flimsy to me. Yes, there's a
         | set of cross cables across part of the back and across one end,
         | but the rest looks like it would parallelogram pretty easily.
        
       | My_Account7619 wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | suby wrote:
       | I love everything about this.
        
       | taneq wrote:
       | Reminds me of the V-slot and T-slot aluminium extrusion that's
       | often used to build light duty equipment like 3D printers.
        
         | ilyt wrote:
         | This is kinda... worse version of it
        
       | mmh0000 wrote:
       | For an even more customizable solution check out 8020(1)
       | 
       | They're not cheap, but they have engineers on staff who will help
       | you finalize your project.
       | 
       | I've used them for several things in the past and have been quite
       | happy.
       | 
       | (1) https://8020.net/
        
         | sitkack wrote:
         | Or https://openbuilds.com/
        
         | elil17 wrote:
         | This is, in fact, just a (more expensive) version of 80/20
         | Ready-Tube with a wooden option, which is really nice (80/20 is
         | aluminum only). It should be compatible with existing 80/20
         | hardware.
         | 
         | 80/20 also offers project plans for some furniture:
         | https://8020.net/xdiy1601
        
           | chrisshroba wrote:
           | Wow, I made an account to download the BoM and that coffee
           | table's total price of materials is $1108 and the end table
           | is $1378. I was expecting less than half that.
        
             | londons_explore wrote:
             | If I have to almost design my coffee table from scratch,
             | including sawing all the pieces to length, then I don't
             | really expect the parts to cost much more than $30. The
             | real investment was my time...
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-01-29 23:02 UTC)