[HN Gopher] Omega-3s: Are "Brain-Boosting" Effects Scientificall...
___________________________________________________________________
Omega-3s: Are "Brain-Boosting" Effects Scientifically Backed?
Author : mililitre
Score : 118 points
Date : 2023-01-27 09:56 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (abouttolearn.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (abouttolearn.substack.com)
| wolfi1 wrote:
| reminds me of lecithin which was marketed in the 80s as helpful
| for the aging brain, turns out, lecithin does not cross the
| Blood-Brain barrier
| EMM_386 wrote:
| The thing is, there are simply too many variables.
|
| Using your example of lecithin, there are numerous studies that
| show it is effective in improving/reversing fatty liver
| disease.
|
| https://www.bcm.edu/news/lecithin-component-may-reduce-fatty...
|
| There have been other studies that establish a link between
| liver health and alzheimers, even that protein from the liver
| can cause Alzheimer's disease in the brain.
|
| https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/09/210914152531.h...
|
| That study aims to prove that high fat content in the liver
| could cause Azlheimer's. So indirectly, taking lecithin may
| help the brain, even though it doesn't cross the blood brain
| barrier!
|
| Too many variables.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| For what it's worth, 1 egg contains about 3.3 grams of
| lecithin. Provided one is not averse to eating eggs there
| should be no need to take it in supplement form. Eggs have the
| best form of lecithin.
| tablespoon wrote:
| Anecdotally, when I first started taking (6 normal-strength pills
| a day) of fish oil in college, I quite unexpectedly noticed my
| "field of view" expanded when I was driving. Previously I'd been
| exclusively focused on a smallish area immediately in front my my
| car, but after a few months of Omega 3s, I noticed I was
| "noticing" and taking into account traffic that was much further
| down the street.
|
| Though I kinda suspect that was the result of curing a
| deficiency, because I plateaued and didn't notice other
| improvements after continued supplementation. It was also very
| early in the fish oil/Omega 3 craze, so I suspect the food up to
| that point was generally more deficient in it (e.g. no feed
| chickens flax to get "Omega 3" eggs).
| sudosteph wrote:
| Interesting, I actually had an extremely similar experience,
| except it was when I first took ADHD medicine, and I noticed it
| most strongly while navigating through the city by foot. "Field
| of View" is a good sort of description for it though, it was
| like the amount of information I could passively perceive about
| my immediate surroundings just increased dramatically.
| dreamoffire wrote:
| Doesn't this sound like an inexperienced driver gaining more
| experience or was there little driving in between?
| tablespoon wrote:
| > Doesn't this sound like an inexperienced driver gaining
| more experience or was there little driving in between?
|
| Maybe it sounds that way, but it wasn't.
|
| I'd already been driving for 5+ years by that time, and the
| change happened only after a couple of months of
| supplementation.
|
| I also used to frequently "zone out" in a particular way
| during daily life, which also went away around the same time.
| anoplus wrote:
| I like experimenting with different lifestyles to see how I feel.
| Most of the times there are too many variables to make
| conclusions. Anyway, I tried going vegetarian for few weeks, then
| introduced fish to diet and felt noticeably better. Then, I tried
| remove fish and take fish oil instead. Felt absolutely no
| benefits. At-least feeling wise. I repeated this experiment
| multiple times so I am sure it isn't coincidence
| anthlax wrote:
| And how did you control for placebo?
| anoplus wrote:
| No control. I don't believe I am affected by placebo.
| anthlax wrote:
| Interesting - how does one determine if they are "affected
| by placebo" or not?
| narag wrote:
| If you don't mind, you're not affected.
|
| Or in other words: if you're affected, you don't mind.
|
| (I'm not even joking. If you're researching a substance
| to use it for others, you definitely need it to control
| for placebo. But if you're doing it just for yourself,
| you only need it to work, no matter why. Another story is
| if it stops working)
| ryanklee wrote:
| Placebo is a baseline effect. It's a hurdle to clear to
| show efficacy above the minimum any substance can meet.
|
| I've heard this argument before, i.e., placebo is an
| effect therefore why not, but I cannot understand why
| time and money would be committed to an activity or
| substance that is only as good as any other activity or
| substance.
|
| Placebo should signal: move along, nothing to see here!
| anthlax wrote:
| This is an great take! I agree placebo is a powerful tool
| :). Thanks for the conversation
| anthlax wrote:
| This is a great take! I agree placebo is a powerful tool.
| Thanks for the conversation
| n2j3 wrote:
| cost of 100 omega 3 capsules (in .gr): ~10 euros, fish and nuts
| cost about 18 euros per kilo and tend to spoil.
| pprotas wrote:
| Omega 3 capsules can also spoil, right?
| humbleferret wrote:
| > Omega 3 capsules can also spoil, right?
|
| Yes, they do. An old study suggests an average of 20% of
| omega-3 fish oil products had excessive oxidation. Or in
| other words, rancid.
|
| https://academic.oup.com/nutritionreviews/article/80/1/138/6.
| ..
| ilostmyshoes wrote:
| You you can just buy cold pressed flax oil and supplement with
| that. ~30 USD for ~1L iirc and it has an absolute assload of
| ALA (omega3)
|
| Hemp seed oil is a good one for omega6 but usually people get
| enough 6 from diet and 3 is the one we need to boost to get the
| 3:6 ratio up
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_ratio_in_food
| johnyzee wrote:
| ALA must be converted to EPA and DHA, which it does at less
| than 10% efficiency, so you'd need to consume an assload of
| it, too. Your best bet is still fish(oil).
| ilostmyshoes wrote:
| [dead]
| Py-o7 wrote:
| and you can actually use up all the various desaturase and
| elongase enzymes in the process so that 10% upper bound
| drops markedly as you consume more ALA. Put differently
| long chain n-3's production definitely isn't linearly
| dependent on short chain n-3s like ALA and stearidonic
| acid.
| newaccount74 wrote:
| I like flax oil, but it spoils very quickly. I have trouble
| going through 250ml before it goes rancid.
| ilostmyshoes wrote:
| Do you keep it in a refrigerator?
| newaccount74 wrote:
| Maybe I should
| ben_w wrote:
| Fish are famous for spoiling quickly, but nuts are not.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| Eating a lot of fish also brings some risks from microplastic
| and other pollution, especially if you don't pay attention to
| where it comes from.
| [deleted]
| simonh wrote:
| So basically once your body has all the nutrients it needs to
| grow or make the things it needs to make, it makes them. Even
| more extra stuff it doesn't need, it doesn't use. Makes sense.
|
| This also appears to apply to the immune system. There's zero
| evidence that supplements that are supposed to "boost your immune
| system" do any such thing. Yes your immune system functions best
| if you have good nutrition, but that's it. Even better nutrition
| just isn't a thing.
|
| Side rant, sorry, but I had this conversation with a relative
| during covid, she was touting supplements to 'boost her immune
| system'. There's one way we have found that really does actually
| boost your immune system, that works with your natural defences
| by training them specifically to fight a particular disease.
| Vaccination.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Lot of issues can be autoimmune related. Goal is to calm down
| the immune system. Not boost it. This is where basics like
| getting away from sugar are so important.
| kimmik wrote:
| Immune system isn't just too much or too little. Can't
| simplify it to that. People with autoimmunity are also
| immunesuppressed at baseline.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Your sort of correct. Lots of drugs like plaquninal are
| immune modifiers not suppressant.
|
| However shoving large amounts of sugar and basically
| everything in the American diet is a great way to get the
| immune system to decide that everything in body is the
| enemy.
| johnyzee wrote:
| Sugar is pro-inflammatory, and so is omega-6 fatty acids,
| the consumption of both of which has increased massively
| within the last 60-70 years. Omega-6 fats have gone from
| less than 5% of human diet to up to 30% today, thanks to
| the commercial success of 'vegetable' oils. These two
| alone probably represent the most conspicuous diet
| changes that have happened in our societies in recent
| history and should be obvious suspects when looking at
| disease factors, imho.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| The biggest change in the human diet is the explosion of
| cheap calories on the food market, especially hyper
| palatable ones.
|
| If canola oil or even just linoleic acid were so bad for
| us, we could cause worse health outcomes by intervening
| them into diets, but that's not what happens in RCTs.
| seper8 wrote:
| There is a shit ton of evidence supporting vitamin d3 to fight
| covid...
| dgacmu wrote:
| There's not, though. There's a ton of evidence that vitamin d
| _correlates_ with COVID outcomes, but this is vitamin d's
| superpower: it correlates with good outcomes for just about
| everything, but nearly every time there's a good high quality
| study, it turns out to not be causative. A bunch of those
| vitamin d and COVID studies were fraudulent.
|
| Vitamin d levels are an excellent marker of good health and
| they can help predict outcomes but supplementing vitamin d
| doesn't improve those outcomes. Regretfully. (Except rickets,
| of course.)
| seper8 wrote:
| Did you even do a single bit of research before boldly
| stating there is no research done on the supplementation?
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-24053-4
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35166850/
| https://pmj.bmj.com/content/98/1156/87 https://journals.plo
| s.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
| dgacmu wrote:
| Yes. There's a ton. Most of it is horribly tainted by
| correlation effects. Let's consider one of the studies
| you cited above, which is an observational study from the
| VA hospitals:
|
| "In the population of US veterans, we show that Vitamin
| D2 and D3 fills were associated with reductions in
| COVID-19 infection of 28% and 20%, respectively"
|
| This sounds really awesome, right? Except -- you could
| also interpret this as "People who are following their
| doctor's recommendations, going to the pharmacy to fill
| their prescriptions, and taking them, do better". No
| kidding - they're probably also taking their other
| medications and being more generally medically careful!
|
| This is completely consistent with the 99% of vitamin
| d-related results that show that it correlates with all
| sorts of positive outcomes.
|
| The high quality interventional studies -- which are
| actually potentially able to demonstrate causality -- are
| generally negative. And the larger and better they are,
| the more likely they are to be negative. One of the
| largest was the CORONAVIT trial; it was, unfortunately,
| open-label, but it was large and randomized. (Note that
| you'd expect the open-label aspect to result in a
| stronger placebo effect, which .. well, given that they
| found no benefits, did not occur).
| https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj-2022-071230
|
| The vitamin d & covid horse is pretty dead at this point,
| which is basically the same as the "vitamin d & x" horse
| for most values of X other than diseases known to be
| directly caused by vitamin D deficiency. Which are
| serious and worthy of treatment. Just don't expect
| vitamin D to be a miracle cure on the basis of its
| correlation with everything positive.
| nradov wrote:
| There are multiple clinical studies showing that vitamin D
| supplements can be effective in fighting COVID-19. Some
| other studies have shown no effect, but overall there seems
| to be some benefit.
|
| https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/
| dgacmu wrote:
| See my reply to the sibling comment.
| treeman79 wrote:
| /s Ssshhh. People are making billions mutating the virus and
| selling vaccines to what they make. Can't let cheap solutions
| get popular.
| weavie wrote:
| I guess the argument would be that you don't know for sure
| whether your diet does provide _all_ the nutrients your body
| needs, so supplements could be used to fill in any gaps. The
| assumption being that your body will just dispose of any excess
| safely.
| EMM_386 wrote:
| > The assumption being that your body will just dispose of
| any excess safely.
|
| Not always. Fat-soluable vitamins (A, D, E, and K) will build
| up in fat tissue and can lead to toxicity.
| spacemadness wrote:
| Source?
| inejge wrote:
| Search for "hypervitaminosis A", for example.
| LinuxBender wrote:
| It may also be worth noting that people with excess body
| fat will absorb fat soluble vitamins into the excess fat
| and it will not be available for the thousands of functions
| in the body that need them until the person is fat adapted.
| Ideally the high priority goal should be to remove the
| excess fat but until they do they will need more than the
| RDI of each component. How much more gets complicated as
| there are not yet any good tests for testing how much was
| absorbed into the fat.
| nradov wrote:
| You would have to take a lot of vitamin D supplements to
| cause clinical symptoms. Some people have done it, but as a
| practical matter the risk of hypervitaminosis D from
| regular multivitamin pills is virtually zero.
|
| Whether those pills actually have any health benefit is a
| separate issue.
| amerkhalid wrote:
| Or, in my case, I am 100% certain that my diet is missing
| many nutrients as I rarely eat fruits or vegetables. I take
| various supplements and so far things seems to be okay (based
| on yearly physical and blood work).
| godshatter wrote:
| There is also the triage theory of aging where the idea is
| that when micronutrient levels are low (not low enough to
| cause acute symptoms but below the recommended daily
| allowance), they are triaged and used where needed (such as
| ATP production) at the expense of being used normally. The
| theory is that this can cause long-term problems such as
| neural decay, cancer, and other signs of aging.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1693790/
| Py-o7 wrote:
| +1 for Bruce Ames. This idea profoundly shaped my thinking
| a few years ago.
|
| The one nit is I'm not sure how we'd go about testing it.
| simonh wrote:
| That's a perfectly fair point, I took Vitamin D during
| lockdown because I wasn't getting enough sunlight. I'm just
| saying that it makes sense that beyond satisfying your body's
| needs there's no higher plane of health that supplements will
| take you to.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| That's the sales pitch for multivitamins and the like; they
| talk you into a problem but they provide the solution.
|
| Certain vitamins your body will dispose of safely (like
| vitamin C), but there's others that just build up until they
| kill you; there's the case of Xavier Mertz [0] who was
| theorized to have died from an excess of vitamin A after
| eating his sled dogs' livers.
|
| But the basic rule is: just eat normally / "a balanced diet";
| you likely don't need supplements unless you have absorption
| issues or stick to a specific diet (e.g. vegetarianism /
| veganism, soylent / diet shakes, or the same thing every day,
| like the 14 year old who only ate chips and ended up
| (partially) blind due to a vitamin deficiency [1])
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Mertz
|
| [1] https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/L19-0361,
| https://www.cbsnews.com/news/british-teenager-went-blind-
| fro...
| seper8 wrote:
| Even that balanced diet will consist of less and less
| minerals and vitamins as time goes on and growers optimize
| for vegetable, fruit VOLUME instead of vitamin/mineral
| contents.
|
| >>>
|
| The level of decline varied depending on the specific
| nutrients and the type of fruit or vegetable, but it
| generally ranged from 6 percent for protein to 38 percent
| for riboflavin. In particular, calcium dropped most
| dramatically in broccoli, kale, and mustard greens, while
| the iron content took a substantial hit in chard,
| cucumbers, and turnip greens. Asparagus, collard greens,
| mustard greens, and turnip greens lost considerable amounts
| of vitamin C.
|
| Further studies since then have backed up the case that
| nutrient levels are dissipating. Research in the January
| 2022 issue of the journal Foods found that while most
| vegetables grown in Australia had relatively similar iron
| content between 1980 and 2010, there were noteworthy drops
| in certain veggies. Declines in iron content, ranging from
| 30 to 50 percent, occurred for sweet corn, red-skinned
| potatoes, cauliflower, green beans, green peas, and
| chickpeas. By contrast, Hass avocados, mushrooms, and
| silverbeet (another name for chard) actually gained in
| iron.
|
| Grains have also experienced declines, experts say. A study
| in a 2020 issue of Scientific Reports found that protein
| content in wheat decreased by 23 percent from 1955 to 2016,
| and there were notable reductions in manganese, iron, zinc,
| and magnesium, as well.
|
| <<<
|
| https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/environment-and-
| conserv...
| deepsquirrelnet wrote:
| Food storage and preservation also has a lot to do with
| it as well. Oxidation makes a lot of nutrients mostly
| unavailable, and degradation can happen quickly. Minerals
| in vegetables aren't chelated, so while they sit in
| refrigerated storage, they are still rapidly losing
| nutrition.
| scottLobster wrote:
| The question is one of optimization. There are arguably
| optimal doses of particular nutrients (i.e. Vitamin D) that
| would be extremely hard to achieve through "a balanced
| diet". Also most people do not and many can not eat a
| "balanced diet", as that requires a ton of effort to
| maintain.
|
| To put it another way, if the benefits of exercise were
| available in pill form on grocery store shelves, everyone
| would be taking that pill. Saying "you could save some
| money by just exercising normally!" is making a lot of
| assumptions about what people are willing and able to do,
| and frankly you'd be a fool to waste time exercising if the
| benefits were achievable through a magic pill.
|
| Supplements aren't quite that magical, but they make
| optimal, hard-to-achieve doses achievable, even on a bad
| diet. Granted they can also be misused, or doses can be so
| low/ingredients not bio-available such that they have no
| impact. They're a tool like anything else, and can be used
| correctly or incorrectly. Part of what bugs me about the
| meta-analysis saying "supplements don't reduce all-cause
| mortality!" is that they lump wildly different supplements
| with different make-ups, taken in different doses on
| different schedules from different starting diets with
| different amounts of discipline/regularity. Of course at a
| population level the number of people using them wrong
| probably outnumber the people who do their research and
| maintain a disciplined approach. Your average person has
| issues getting their car's oil changed and understanding
| the difference between synthetic and conventional oil. A
| skilled individual could properly apply and see benefits
| from supplements, just as a skilled individual could
| successfully change their own oil.
| ROTMetro wrote:
| And what is a balanced diet? Is it the 1990s food pyramid
| that I was taught by my doctor to follow?
| 300bps wrote:
| _The assumption being that your body will just dispose of any
| excess safely._
|
| Well worded. From my personal experience, this assumption is
| dangerous.
|
| About 20 years ago I was having elevated AST/ALT liver
| enzymes three tests in a row indicating liver damage. Doctor
| ordered every test to see what was going on but everything
| came up negative. She asked me if I took a multivitamin which
| I did. She told me to stop.
|
| Haven't had elevated liver enzymes since.
| kimmik wrote:
| What was in that multivitamin you took? Interesting
| anecdote but I worry you are throwing the baby out.
| 300bps wrote:
| It was a mass-market Centrum multivitamin.
| AmericanChopper wrote:
| If you spend enough time looking into what micronutrients you
| need, you eventually figure out that it is actually pretty
| hard to get them all through diet. But there is essentially
| no end to the scientifically backed list of beneficial
| supplements you might choose to take, so if you want to
| start, there's not really a rational place to stop, and it
| can spiral out of control quite quickly. I think the better
| approach is just to eat a varied diet.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| Well, that and high quality, sufficient sleep. That is way
| harder as you age, and a worthwhile aim of lifestyle
| modification or supplementation to support it.
| johnyzee wrote:
| This is why omega-3s are effective. Your body depends on them
| to function optimally, and they are found in only a very few
| food sources, pretty much only fish. The omega-3s found in nuts
| and plants can convert to the most critical fatty acids, but
| about ten times less efficiently.
| zackees wrote:
| [dead]
| phkahler wrote:
| >> So basically once your body has all the nutrients it needs
| to grow or make the things it needs to make, it makes them.
| Even more extra stuff it doesn't need, it doesn't use. Makes
| sense.
|
| I find it really common when researching the benefits of X to
| run across articles citing research that "X does nothing in
| healthy people" seemingly to discredit the idea that taking X
| is a good idea. But if you have a deficiency that research
| isn't really relevant. Gotta read the qualifiers.
| cainxinth wrote:
| I've often said that when discussing vitamins, in particular,
| the general public thinks of them incorrectly like stackable
| video game power ups. In reality, they are more analogous to
| essential pieces of the game's code.
|
| You don't get super powers by taking a whole bunch, and things
| start malfunctioning if you lack them.
| newsclues wrote:
| I think the "boost your immune system" things are just common
| deficiencies in modern people.
|
| If most people don't get enough vitamin C or D in regular life,
| then the advice to boost their immune system with a sufficient
| does to be non-deficient would function to boost their immune
| system to a normally healthy level.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| Milk sold in the US almost always has vitamin D added to it,
| because presumably Americans don't get enough sunlight to
| produce sufficient amounts.
|
| Instant noodles sold in Japan almost always have vitamins B1
| and B2 added to them, for presumably similar reasons.
| bayindirh wrote:
| > because presumably Americans don't get enough sunlight to
| produce sufficient amounts.
|
| UHT denatures vitamin D, hence UHT and Pasteurized milk has
| lower vitamin D levels before the sterilization process.
| walthamstow wrote:
| White bread and processed grain products in the UK always
| have things like iron, calcium, vitamins, riboflavin added.
| I think it's to replace the loss of the nutrient-rich germ
| from milling.
|
| Never known what riboflavin is, still don't today, but I
| saw it on the side of a cereal box every day as a child and
| the word is etched in my mind
| jerf wrote:
| Riboflavin is one of the vitamin B complex. I remember it
| because deficiencies are _extremely_ rare, and there
| appears to be no practical upper limit on how much you
| can take, it is virtually impossible to overdose on. I
| mean, obviously, there is _some_ limit, but it 's sky
| high.
|
| Which makes the supplementation of it a particular joke,
| in my opinion.
|
| That it was discovered as a "vitamin" at all is probably
| more to do with it being easy to spot (very brightly
| colored) and easy to chemically handle and a few other
| accidents of history more than anything else:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riboflavin#History (I am
| editorializing that a bit and I freely admit that.) It
| certainly doesn't stick out like, say, iron, which has
| recognizable deficiency symptoms and plenty of people in
| the real world with them.
| yucky wrote:
| I don't know any adults who drink milk. I'm sure some do,
| but I wouldn't count on that as the solution to Vitamin D
| deficiency.
| treeman79 wrote:
| You will want k3 if you take d2. Highly recommend getting
| tested for D deficiency.
|
| Source. I used to have crippling migraines almost every day.
| I don't anymore.
| robg wrote:
| I used to get crippling Seasonal Affective Disorder every
| year, got tested, was badly deficient, and now don't
| anymore.
| bigcloud1299 wrote:
| How did you all resolve the deficiencies? Can you link
| any product you took? I am in need of Vitamin D.
| jeremyt wrote:
| See Dr Berg:
|
| https://youtu.be/NFxQJmvgXOQ
| idiocrat wrote:
| I watched the 4 min video.
|
| Unfortunately Dr Berg seems not to consider the concept
| of biological half-time. I am sure he know the concept,
| just forgot to put it into his calculation formula.
|
| He basically assumes that if his patient consumes 2000 IU
| vitamin D today, then tomorrow his patient has depleted
| all 2000 IU and has zero vitamin D in patient's blood.
|
| This is obviously wrong.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| That guy is a scientologist quack btw.
|
| Here's one example of how incompetent he is:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKNzLRmzLg
|
| He basically turns low quality listicle nutrition
| pointers into videos with a whiteboard.
| robg wrote:
| 1. Get tested 2. If low, start taking D3 with K 3. Keep
| taking D3 with K 4. Get tested again 5. Take more if no
| improvement
|
| I take 5000 IU most days.
| outime wrote:
| You've mixed them up - it's D3 with K2.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| FWIW, your gut already synthesizes K2 from K1. K1 is easy
| to get from green leafy vegetables from spinach to
| broccoli, though I suppose easy to avoid if you don't eat
| well.
|
| K2 from dietary doses of meat (MK-4) doesn't change
| circulating levels of MK-4 -- it's basically not
| bioavailable. Though K2 from fermented products like
| cheeses and natto (MK-7) _is_ bioavailable.
|
| Doesn't seem like something worth worrying about if you
| have a varied diet that includes green veggies.
| mgraupner wrote:
| May I ask if you had gut/intestine problems before?
| treeman79 wrote:
| Yes. Had tons of random problems. Ended up being
| autoimmune Sjogrens and a clotting disorder.
|
| Diet changes and supplements are how I got thing under
| control for most issues. Blood thinners for Clotting
| since That's way to dangerous, and no combination of
| anything else helped.
|
| LDN covers symptoms when I'm not strict about diet.
| mgraupner wrote:
| Interesting. I had similar symptoms like migraine/brain
| fog, stiff neck and muscle tension as soon as October
| (winter in Central Europe) came. Tested for Vitamin D
| deficiency and had super low levels. Since taking
| supplements I feel good in winter for the first time in
| probably 5 years. I'm also a very outdoorsy person, so
| getting enough sun is not always a sure way wo have high
| levels of Vitamin D.
| treeman79 wrote:
| Look up IIH. High cranial pressure. Comment about stiff
| neck is a big clue.
| jerf wrote:
| "Sun" is definitely not sufficient. Vitamin D synthesis
| requires UVB exposure [1] and that plummets to
| effectively zero in the higher latitudes in the winter: h
| ttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5037520/#sec3
| -n... By "higher latitudes" I mean considered on a global
| scale; continental Europe is effectively all at these
| "higher latitudes".
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D
| simonh wrote:
| I don't think that's what a lot of people think boosting
| means. Certainly the family member I'm talking about, and the
| circle of people she associates with and sends breathlessly
| excited emails about, think these supplements will protect
| them from pretty much everything. That they don't just have
| healthy immune systems, but boosted ones that literally will
| protect them from coronavirus, flu, even cancer. That's why I
| don't like that term, it's become a cult byword.
| cullenking wrote:
| I recently got a broad panel of tests done, and found out I
| was Vitamin D deficient. This was a big surprise to me
| because I live in the high desert of central oregon, which
| gets lots of sun even in the winter. I am very active and
| outside everyday. It is cold however, so my arms are always
| covered. We are 45 degrees north of the equator.
|
| I was at 20 ng/mL which is considered deficient. 3 weeks of
| 5,000 IU a day supplementation (162lbs, fit, active male)
| brought me up to 31 ng/mL, which is just barely up from
| deficient. I upped to 10,000 IU a day for 1 week, dropped
| back to 5,000 IU a day, and will test again in two weeks.
| Everyone is different, but hopefully this gives some helpful
| numbers for anyone considering supplementing, and whether or
| not the paltry 1,000 IU commonly advised is adequate for
| people living at a higher latitude in the winter.
| ravenstine wrote:
| Even if supplementing omega 3 had any meaningful benefit, enough
| of those supplements are either spoiled or tainted with things
| like aldehydes that I decided to stop taking them.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30529885/
|
| Better to just eat meat and eggs.
| francisofascii wrote:
| > They also have antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties
| that might help brain function.
|
| I think people take omega-3s for the antioxidant and anti-
| inflammatory properties. That's the benefit. The "brain boosting"
| effects, if any, are just a possible bonus.
| sinenomine wrote:
| Regardless of the potential nootropic effect discussed in the
| blogpost, the circulatory system (heart) benefits are pretty well
| studied and proven:
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22370-2 though require
| considerable doses of the DHA or EHA.
| meindnoch wrote:
| Anecdotal experience: I was taking an SNRI medication, and when I
| tried an omega-3 supplement it gave me those unmistakeable brain
| zaps you get when weaning off of antidepressants. So it
| definitely did _something_ to my brain!
|
| By the way, paradoxically, people discontinuing antidepressants
| usually take omega-3 hoping that it will _lessen_ their brain
| zaps...
| tgv wrote:
| Does lack of it have an effect? I couldn't find that in the list.
| [deleted]
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I am not an expert in nutrition, but I still have my opinions: I
| try to consume a lot of Omega 3 via the food I eat: chia seeds,
| walnuts, etc. I avoid eating foods, like the fish Tilapia, that
| contain a lot of Omega 6.
|
| I do take one daily Omega 3 supplement I get from my optometrist
| for a particular vision problem.
| azubinski wrote:
| There was a strange country where the pure Omega-3 "fish fat" was
| extremely popular, almost every child was fed this in childhood.
|
| Then these kids grew up. And they became tens of millions of
| idiots who put cans of water in front of TVs so that some
| charlatan would "charge" this water.
|
| So this Omega-3 is proven not to help the brain. It maybe even
| harmful. The second assertion has not yet been refuted.
|
| :)
| dennis_jeeves1 wrote:
| >So this Omega-3 is proven not to help the brain. It maybe even
| harmful. The second assertion has not yet been refuted.
|
| So I don't recollect all sources but it does appear that for
| people who understand the nuances ( of which there are not
| many) it indeed could be harmful.
|
| One source: https://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml
| moremetadata wrote:
| Is this an obedience to authority and child abuse study? You'd
| have to read the article and then click through on the links to
| see, unless my internet access is being MITM.
|
| Edit. Didnt see any mention of neutrophils and the effect EPA has
| on their size and effectiveness, which can also increase brain
| function in a round about way and no mention of its testosterone
| enhancing ways which through its mild aromatase inhibition, which
| then contradicts the oestrogen-choline pathway and the effect
| choline has on the brain. Contradictions everywhere.
| AppleBananaPie wrote:
| There are a lot of things that supplements are claimed to help
| but clearly don't. That being said there are things that have
| promising scientific research about benefits and this article
| lacks any information on EPA omega 3s separate from the others
| which ultimately makes me disregard any conclusion of omega 3s as
| a whole.
|
| Look into the potential effects of EPA omega 3s specifically on
| depression and the potential benefits compared to or combined
| with anti-depressants. Andrew Huberman had it in his episode on
| anxiety and depression I think.
|
| The impact of omega 3s on adhd is also an interesting area of
| research.
|
| Using a click bait "brain-boosting" description completely misses
| the point of many studies that show that certain diets low in
| different omega 3s cause different problems for people.
| mistercow wrote:
| I don't understand the author's reading of the literature they
| cite. They refer to "isolated studies" and then link to a
| systematic review of 25 studies. They also linked to the same
| review twice for both memory and attention, which I assume is a
| mistake, because the review only supports the claim about memory.
|
| But none of these studies are about "brain-boosting". They're
| about preventing or reversing cognitive decline, which is perhaps
| related, but ultimately different.
|
| No fault to the author of this post for being unable to find
| evidence focused on healthy adults; anyone who has looked into
| the evidence around nootropics can tell you that pretty much
| nobody wants to study that. But it's important to be clear about
| what the evidence actually says, and what it doesn't speak to.
| abeppu wrote:
| > anyone who has looked into the evidence around nootropics can
| tell you that pretty much nobody wants to study that
|
| There's a class of areas where lots of non-experts are
| interested, but doing studies large enough to detect modest
| effect sizes with high confidence is too expensive. Nutrition
| can do either large survey studies, or small controlled
| experiments. Exercise researchers often have to work with a
| small number of untrained participants. I would love a citizen
| science platform for large studies of low-risk interventions
| operated like a multi-armed bandit setup. "Oh, you're
| interested improving working memory? Follow regimen X for 90
| days and do this working memory test every week." I feel like
| the hardest parts are getting participants to adhere to their
| assigned intervention, and preventing participants with a pre-
| existing agenda from joining.
| karpierz wrote:
| > I feel like the hardest parts are getting participants to
| adhere to their assigned intervention, and preventing
| participants with a pre-existing agenda from joining.
|
| This combined with perverse incentives are why it's not
| possible. Non-experts with the resources to solve these
| problems are generally trying to sell you something, and
| aren't particularly interested in the truth.
| abeppu wrote:
| Perhaps so. Saying it's "not possible" seems like an overly
| strong conclusion.
|
| For specific interventions, I think it might be possible to
| have open, blinded participation. E.g. for supplements
| which may affect memory:
|
| - Participants sign up to buy a supplement which they know
| will be one of k generally safe supplements or a placebo
|
| - The specific supplement or placebo they receive it
| thompson sampled (or similar) from our bandit given data so
| far, and sent to them unlabeled
|
| - They're only able to receive their next bottle if they
| complete weekly tests or measurements
|
| The value prop is that you're probably buying a pretty good
| intervention, even if you don't know which one it is (and
| perhaps you're getting a discount subsidized by the
| minority of people who are paying for a placebo at any
| given time).
|
| For a number of questions related to exercise, people may
| fall into camps about their prior beliefs, and may self-
| sabotage if they're in treatment group that goes against
| their preferences but there isn't a clear thing to sell.
| E.g. which of a family of training schedules helps people
| reduce their 10k running time the most?
| permo-w wrote:
| why is it that no one wants to study the effects of nootropics?
| boringg wrote:
| Way too many variables to control for which makes any
| scientific findings incredibly difficult to validate. Tough
| to make a career on it and way to many conflict of interests.
|
| It's too bad because if someone could legitimately find
| conclusive results that would be really helpful.
|
| It feels like its a part of the medical space that the
| mainstream part of the medical community has shunned which
| has allowed for a lot of less scrupulous individuals to take
| up the mantel (See all the podcasts etc). It's too bad
| because there is probably something to it but its tough to
| validate/quantify.
| Mtinie wrote:
| I have two hypotheses that came to mind when I read your
| question:
|
| 1. It's a hard problem to quantify effects on cognitive
| functioning provided by nootropic supplements. We still have
| so much to learn about brain function;
|
| 2. Nootropics offer patent holders opportunities to make
| obscene amounts of money. As long as those supplements are
| (generally) safe to consume. That level of review requires
| R&D spending, but _too much_ investigation may inadvertently
| reveal that these money-making "miracle" products are far
| less effective than the manufacturers claim.
| theptip wrote:
| I don't think 1. is correct. There is a large body of
| research looking into different dimensions of brain
| function, and how different conditions impair those
| functions.
|
| For example, look at the N-back test for working memory.
| This is popular in the nootropics community, and is widely
| used in clinical pharmacology research. There are plenty of
| other tests. Scientists do experiments like "measure how
| impaired you are on alcohol vs. antihistamines" to compare
| impairment profiles from different modes of drug action.
|
| You can measure impairment from sleep deprivation, alcohol,
| etc., so of course you can measure improvement in
| attention, reaction speed, working memory, spatial
| reasoning, and so on.
|
| The difficulty with quantifying effects is not that we need
| to learn about brain function to know how to measure them,
| it's that nootropics have quite small effect sizes, if any.
|
| I think it's entirely about 2 -- large studies are
| expensive, and unless your effect size is enormous you need
| a large study to detect it.
| permo-w wrote:
| 1. is certainly true. to my mind, an accurate quantitative
| measure of brain function doesn't exist: you run into the
| fairly intractable philosophical problem of "what is brain
| function?"
|
| while that is true, not being 100% philosophically sound
| has never stopped psychology studies before - far from it
|
| 2. is also perfectly true, with the caveat that it only
| applies to beneficiaries of the patents.
|
| so your hypotheses account for beneficiaries of the
| patents, and scientists who aren't willing to broach the
| subject of measuring brain function, but what about the
| complement of those subsets? what about non-beneficiaries
| who _are_ willing to quantify brain function? are they
| simply a small enough subset that it justifies the
| observation? or is there another hypothesis to be found? or
| perhaps the observation is flawed in itself
| Mtinie wrote:
| > [...]or is there another hypothesis to be found?
|
| There most certainly are more hypotheses to discuss. I
| picked the two which came immediately to mind and passed
| my personal "plausible enough" check.
|
| Thank you for giving me more to consider!
| captainbland wrote:
| I imagine there aren't many scientists who want to enable
| their own line of work descending into a doping arms race
| like some sports can in the absence of anti-doping
| regulations.
|
| Edit: or if they do catch on to something, a moral panic
| breaking out and having to do drugs tests on the regular or
| something
| mistercow wrote:
| I think it boils down to a combination of:
|
| 1) It's hard to sell the output of this research. Your health
| insurance isn't going to pay $100 a day to make a healthy
| person smarter.
|
| 2) The output of your research is going to be low priority
| for regulatory approval
|
| 3) As both result and cause of the above, there's virtually
| no existing funding for this kind of research
|
| 4) If you succeed, you're going to spark an immediate furor
| over fairness and the morality of human enhancement (which
| I'm not saying I personally agree with, but it will happen)
| manuelabeledo wrote:
| "no one" is a bit of an overstatement.
|
| If I run a quick search on PubMed, there are a handful
| focused on cognitive enhancement and other effects on healthy
| brains, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35366192/
| shredprez wrote:
| The person you're replying wrote no one wants to study the
| effects of nootropics _in healthy adults._
|
| Sick people with insurance, particularly chronically ill
| ones, or those with illnesses that threaten their lives, are
| where I'd imagine the majority of money is made. You could
| probably argue treating the ill is more psychologically
| impactful work too. That's going to skew where researcher's
| focus their attention, especially if their work is funded by
| private industry.
| omginternets wrote:
| Because most of the time, interest in a topic is a function
| of plausibility. Most nootropics have little or nothing to
| indicate they work -- not even a hint of something plausible.
|
| Of course, it's possible the scientific community is
| overlooking something promising. This has happened before.
| But that's a dangerous bet for a career scientist to take.
|
| Practically, if you want nootropics that work, and if you
| want to consume something whose long term side-effects are
| actually known, get an adderall prescription. (Or, stop
| trying to neurotically optimize every detail of your life and
| go outside.)
| crazypyro wrote:
| Because people buy it without it being proven and proving
| anything related to cognitive ability is both difficult and
| expensive.
|
| This makes doing studies on their effectiveness a neutral to
| losing scenario.
|
| Either:
|
| The nootropic works. Great, you probably spent a decent
| amount of money and... The results are still going to be hard
| to quantify and measure. It may not be good enough results to
| convince people who already weren't convinced. Might as well
| not do it and keep making money off people who buy it without
| scientific studies.
|
| Or
|
| The nootropic doesn't work. Shit. Bury the results and never
| publish or risk losing a money maker.
| permo-w wrote:
| this is all true for the producers/sellers of the
| nootropic, but what about anyone else?
| paulluuk wrote:
| Indeed, it seems to me that a paper proving that
| nootropics are either harmful or helpful would be quite
| publishable, which is (unfortunately?) what modern
| science is all about.
| zackees wrote:
| [dead]
| mililitre wrote:
| Thanks for the feedback: will update the second link to point
| to the correct source, and I think "isolated findings" would be
| a more accurate word here.
|
| I agree that many of the studies are about cognitive decline,
| but there's also research on improving cognitive function,
| which would probably be closer to "brain boosting" category you
| mention.
|
| For example, from the first source I listed, "Six trials
| (including 1757 participants) assessed executive function, 5
| trials (including 1426 participants) assessed effects of LCn3
| on processing speed, and 11 (including 5698 participants)
| assessed memory. Meta-analysis suggested little or no effect
| for all of these measures (as well as the subcategories of
| memory, all moderate- or low-quality evidence; see
| Supplementary Material for further information)."
| bearcream67 wrote:
| "Current evidence supports the finding that omega-3 PUFAs
| with EPA >= 60% at a dosage of <=1 g/d would have beneficial
| effects on depression."
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5
|
| Is this considered brain boosting?
| GTP wrote:
| I don't think so, I would consider "brain boosting"
| something that makes the brain of an healthy person perform
| better at certain tasks, not something that improves it for
| people with a disease.
| stevespang wrote:
| [dead]
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| One of the interesting things you pick up on from reading
| supplement blogs and fitness forums is that a lot of people have
| negative reactions to Omega 3 supplements. If you search for
| "omega-3 depression" you find a lot of stories from people whose
| depression started or worsened with omega-3 supplements, and
| resolved later.
|
| This is a particularly interesting find given that the placebo
| effect would be expected to go in the opposite direction: Many of
| these people started the supplement because they thought it was
| going to improve their health, not worsen it. It can take a very
| long time to recognize the connection between the supplement and
| side effects.
|
| Several other supplements are common contributors to depressive
| symptoms. Choline supplements often make irritability and
| depression worse. This finding isn't surprising given that
| cholinergic signaling has been known to be associated with
| depression for decades and many powerful antidepressants are
| anticholinergic. Yet you can find a lot of supplement sellers
| pushing choline supplements as something that automatically
| improves brain health.
| sinenomine wrote:
| Regardless of personal reports you mention, choline is a _very_
| interesting substance due to demonstrated long-term attention
| benefits in children after being administered to their mothers
| during pregnancy:
| https://faseb.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1096/fj.2021012...
|
| This is as close to "life-changing" as it gets with these
| substances.
| bearcream67 wrote:
| I'm curious as to what papers mention this! Quickly pulling up
| one related appears to clearly support EPA omega 3
| supplementation being a beneficial tool to help with
| depression.
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5
| bazmattaz wrote:
| Anecdotal evidence time!
|
| I take 3 high strength omega 3 tablets every day. I feel like it
| sharpens my mind and improves my focus. It might be a placebo but
| I know when I go off them (sometimes I have a few off months for
| no real reason) I get bad brain fog and my performance at work
| slips. With omegas i feel like I sleep better and recover from
| the gym quicker
| osigurdson wrote:
| I've always thought that these types of studies / meta-analysis
| are conducted in a backward manner. A study is proposed, funded,
| performed - possibly with a particular objective in mind. The
| results are published (possibly used in various marketing
| materials), then almost enviably, methods and rationale are
| questioned by others post hoc. The end result of the exercise is
| often no knowledge gained with diminishing public trust in
| science.
|
| Instead what we should do, is to come up with a study design
| first, gain broad consensus that the study, if rigorously
| conducted in accordance to the design, would yield statistically
| meaningful results.
|
| The challenge here is many studies would likely be infeasible
| (requiring millions of people or hundreds of years in order to
| attain a statistically valid result - or both). However, that is
| useful in it's own right as it would help us to direct resources
| at studies that do have a hope of increasing knowledge.
| Infeasible studies will just have to wait until we can accurately
| simulate biological phenomena.
| bannedbybros wrote:
| [dead]
| mamonster wrote:
| I mean, that's kind of the gist of supplements as a whole, you
| only take them if you cannot replicate it using a normal
| diet/lifestyle.
|
| The biggest example for this IMO is Vitamin D. If you can spend
| time in the Sun regularly every day, you won't ever need to touch
| vitamin D. But how realistic is that for most people ?
|
| The only supplement I've encountered so far that has a noticeable
| effect that cannot be reproduced with any realistic diet is
| creatine.
| nervousvarun wrote:
| Creatine...would say especially if you're male, is such a game-
| changer. Recently got my dad who is in his 70s to start taking
| it and it's been enormously positive for him. Really good
| stuff.
|
| Personally think it's probably equally valuable for women but
| can't get my wife to take it (worried about the bloating which
| is a thing).
|
| To your point it would be very difficult to get the equivalent
| creatine from your diet. Would take a lot of steak.
| rex-mundi wrote:
| What benefits did you Dad get from it?
| nervousvarun wrote:
| More weight and energy/faster recovery with his circuit
| training. His overall lean muscle tone has visibly
| improved.
|
| Haven't asked him about his cardio training but he's moving
| more weight around than he did before and that's creating
| benefits for him overall.
| taeric wrote:
| Did you look at any of the studies that showed placebo
| effects comparable to creatine? It is insane, as we know the
| mechanism for how creatine does its thing. Still, the social
| effects of being told it is effective seems to be the
| dominant reason it is as effective as it is.
| nervousvarun wrote:
| Have not seen those studies.
|
| Creatine is one of the most studied supplements out there
| though so would think the empirical data supports it at
| this point.
|
| I'm speaking anecdotally of course. I used to cycle
| creatine but now I just always take it. When I'd cycle off
| I'd lose 5-10 lbs every time. Thats mostly water weight but
| my lifts would decrease about 10% as well. Not to mention
| the extra energy (more reps not just more weight)
|
| It makes a significant difference for me.
| taeric wrote:
| It is one of the more studied drugs, agreed. We are very
| confident it works. Which is why the studies that show
| being told it works is a major driver are insanely
| interesting and worth checking on.
| mancerayder wrote:
| I lift weights and do other exercise but never took Creatine.
| Are there benefits that aren't tied to exercise performance
| specifically as a goal ?
|
| Does it have downsides in the body?
| smileysteve wrote:
| Non exercise performance benefits:
|
| - helps build skeletal support muscles which reduces
| osteoarthritis and treats osteopetrosis
|
| - helps strengthen the heart muscle
|
| - the brain also uses atp, increased brain function
| (anecdotally, can help reduce brain fatigue)(Parkinson's,
| als, Huntingtons, possibly Alzheimer's
|
| Downsides:
|
| Increased load on the kidneys - which combines with an
| increased load from muscle breakdown (which it can reduce,
| but most likely the workout with it will increase muscle
| breakdown) - don't take it and workout hard if you are
| approaching renal failure.
|
| Some stomach upset, diarrhea, and muscle bloating.
| vassy wrote:
| I was reading your comment and wanted to comment about creatine
| until I saw it added at the end. With over 20 years of gym
| training and taking massive amounts of supplements, I totally
| agree. Apart from protein if you can't get enough from food, I
| find that everything else is either useless or not worth the
| price.
| mjburgess wrote:
| One of the major problems translating "science to advice" is the
| need to specify a risk/reward model for the person being advised.
|
| If P(TheScience) = 0.01, but P(GeneralInjury|TheScience) =
| 0.00000000000...1, and P(GeneralBenefit|TheScience) = 0.5 ....
| then most people should do "what the science says".
|
| Of course there's P(MyBenefit|TheScience) and
| P(MyInjury|TheScience) which makes rendering general advise often
| impossible/unethical.
|
| There's a class of people (eg., neurodivergent, autoimmune
| problems, etc.) for whom P(MyInjury|...) is "anti-correlated"
| with P(GeneralInjury|...)
|
| ...which leads to more pronounced mistrust regarding medical
| interventions.
| chickenimprint wrote:
| What do you mean by P(TheScience) ?
| mjburgess wrote:
| The confidence we have that the relevant scientific
| prescriptions are true.
| nabla9 wrote:
| Metaphor I learned from a biochemist:
|
| You are in a boat with holes in it (holes in this metaphor are
| nutritional deficiencies).
|
| To prevent the boat from sinking you patch the holes under
| waterline starting from the largest. The boat continues to sink
| until all holes under the waterline are patched. You don't stop
| sinking by patching one hole again and again. After you have
| patched all holes under the waterline you can prepare for storm
| (old age, sickness) and patch holes above the waterline. You
| should start from the lowest and go upward.
|
| lessons:
|
| 1. Measure. Blood test can determine if you have deficiencies you
| need to fix.
|
| 2. Once you have fixed one deficiency, fixing it by taking more
| does not help.
|
| 3. Fancy nutrients (phytonutrients, Omega-3) have very tiny
| effect size if it exists at all. They would be at the bottom of
| any list (healthy diet, exercise, sleep, right weight). If you
| don't get enough sleep your immune system and cognition are
| compromised and supplements don't compensate.
|
| ----
|
| ps. Body can synthesize omega-3 if there is enough a-linolenic
| acid (ALA) available. Aging may impair body's ability to make
| omega-3 fatty acids from ALA. _IF_ this is the case, omega-3
| supplements _may_ help.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > ps. Body can synthesize omega-3 if there is enough
| a-linolenic acid (ALA) available.
|
| IIRC, ALA _is an Omega 3_ , just one the human body doesn't use
| for much. The body can synthesize EPA and DHA (which it does
| use), but humans are pretty bad at that. It's totally
| conceivable that the rate of synthesis evolved in the context
| of regular dietary intake of EPA/DHA, so never needed to
| provide for all the body's needs.
| humbleferret wrote:
| An intriguing read that summarises the findings of multiple
| sources. Makes one ponder the true effectiveness of other
| supplements on the market, and whether the $100B+ industry is
| built on hearsay and deception.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| No pondering necessary. That entire industry is based on making
| implications with statements and lobbying to avoid any
| potential accountability.
| ttyyzz wrote:
| Selling water / sugar that has been "marketed differently"
| (read: they lie to you) is a huge industry, yes.
|
| E.g. "Vitamin Water", all kinds of supplements marketed in the
| fitness industry, even
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy.
|
| Placebo is a strong thing.
| ejb999 wrote:
| I agree - its hearsay and deception - vitamins and nutrients
| and dietary supplements are a huge, profit driven, industries -
| they are not your friend trying to improve your health - they
| are trying to empty your wallet and nothing else.
| AppleBananaPie wrote:
| Multiple sources can hardly be considered an effective bar to
| decide if something as a whole is good or bad for you. The
| author completely misses major pieces of literature around
| these and citing something that is critical for you body as
| 'probably good for you' while not covering a single instance of
| health problems from deficiencies makes it hard to take this
| seriously.
| iillexial wrote:
| >The author completely misses major pieces of literature
|
| Can you provide links?
| bearcream67 wrote:
| Not who you're replying to but
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-019-0515-5 from my
| other comment seems relevant. There are many, curious what
| apple will link
| rogerkirkness wrote:
| Started my career at a supplement company and it is definitely
| heresy, deception, and weird derivatives of protein and
| caffeine.
| daniel_iversen wrote:
| Interesting. But omega-3 oils are still good for the joints at
| least aren't they, does anyone know?
| rhacker wrote:
| Supplements are great because at worst they work like a placebo.
| There is a ton of evidence that placebos actually work better
| than real FDA approved stuff (in some cases) because there is a
| metric tonne of crap we don't understand about the brain itself
| and it's ability to heal the body.
|
| At best they actually affect the gut microbiome in some way
| (mostly probiotics) which, in many cases, are also backed by
| clinical studies that show has effects (placebo controlled).
| We'll be finding out in the coming years that the gut microbiome
| is the "second brain" or the brain controlling the brain.
| Everything from mood disorders to major diseases like ALS to
| auto-immunity of the thyroid may start with good or bad bacteria
| in our systems.
|
| This is the cutting edge research, nothing in a book in the last
| 3 years.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Try running this through ChatGPT:
|
| "Let's talk about brain function in human beings and the
| physiological factors like oxygen demand, blood circulation, and
| energy consumption."
|
| If you're working in a stuffy room with poor ventilation (not
| getting enough oxygen to the brain), if you're not getting much
| exercise (not getting enough bloodflow to the brain), and if your
| diet is poor (resulting in oscillating blood sugar levels and
| mineral/vitamin deficiency), then brain function (estimated to
| account for ~20% of avg human energy consumption) is going to
| suffer. Popping a handful of omega-3 pills will not help much in
| that situation.
|
| An interesting question relates to the cohort of people who are
| doing all the right things, i.e. those that have robust
| circulation, stable glucose levels and well-oxygenated blood and
| no nutrient deficiencies. In that case, are there specific
| supplements that might improve mental cognitive function (other
| than an espresso, of course)?
|
| It's also possible that a given supplement exerts a positive
| effect on brain function indirectly via improving circulation or
| helping stabilize blood sugar levels, etc.
|
| [edit] Here's another good ChatGPT question:
|
| "What's the role of the sodium-potassium pump with respect to
| oxygen in the blood and brain function at the cellular level?"
| jack_pp wrote:
| Anecdotally, I've read a long time ago that fish oil should help
| with sleep but I didn't start supplementing. Fast forward to this
| summer, I had big sleep problems, I couldn't keep a normal
| schedule and when I woke up I had terrible brain fog, took my
| like 2-3h in the morning to wake up properly and be able to
| function.
|
| Then I started taking fish oil, I got it by the bottle because
| I've read pills could have rancid oil and I figured if I directly
| taste it I will know if it's fresh/well kept.
|
| My sleep problems disappeared overnight.
| ralfd wrote:
| What brand/product did you buy?
| jack_pp wrote:
| This brand, might be different flavour.
| https://lysi.com/consumer-products/liquid-cod-liver-oil
|
| I put like 5-10ml in a shot glass and fill the rest with
| water, just chug it and rinse the glass with water a few
| times. This way, I can barely taste it and have no fish oil
| aftertaste, the flavor they add might help too
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