[HN Gopher] ASML Q4 2022 financial results
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ASML Q4 2022 financial results
Author : stangles1
Score : 46 points
Date : 2023-01-25 21:03 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.asml.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.asml.com)
| bruce343434 wrote:
| Ok, and?
|
| No but on a serious note, can someone give some context? Is there
| something special about these numbers that is newsworthy?
| kryptiskt wrote:
| ASML has a monopoly on Extreme UV lithography machines which
| are needed for top end chips. So it's a pretty good picture of
| where investment in chip fabrication is heading.
| bdcp wrote:
| ASML has many eyes balls on it, due to the potential in stock
| prices
| fredski42 wrote:
| Including the eye balls of Biden
| capableweb wrote:
| Rather, ASML makes some equipment that you literally cannot
| get from anywhere else, and the stock price is reflecting
| this.
| hardware2win wrote:
| It comes from ASML
|
| They and TSMC are one of the hottest companies that
| additionally do hard engineering instead of social medias or
| ads
| somethoughts wrote:
| AMAT (Applied Materials) would be company representing the US
| in this space.
|
| AMAT and ASML sell mostly complimentary semiconductor
| equipment to TSMC/Intel/Samsung (semiconductor
| manufacturers/fabs)
| iruoy wrote:
| I wouldn't call ASML's products complimentary. They are the
| only machines capable of EUV lithography. Without EUV,
| nodes smaller than 7nm wouldn't be possible. But even
| before EUV they were the leading manufacturer of
| lithography machines. They deliver to all the big players
| like TSMC, Samsung and Intel.
|
| They are so important/valuable that the US government is
| negotiating with the Dutch government to ban ASML from
| selling EUV machines to China.
| cma wrote:
| They were already able to ban, because ASML's EUV effort
| partly came out of a DARPA/US-industry consortium (EUV
| LLC from the 1990s).
| nwiswell wrote:
| They're complimentary products because lithography isn't
| useful if you don't have Etch, CVD, PVD, ALD, CMP,
| Implant, etc.
| terafo wrote:
| They are negotiating DUV ban. EUV is banned for years
| now.
| m00dy wrote:
| I remember bridgewater shorted ASML for big positions for
| no reason and then the news broke out that US government
| banned ASML from selling some stuff to China.
| comboy wrote:
| They may be the most important/irreplaceable company in the
| world.
| gallerdude wrote:
| Everyone talks about the machine that makes the chips, but I've
| never heard mentioned the machine that makes the machine that
| makes the chips.
|
| (I guess it's probably just a bunch of regular machines, but it
| feels like there's got to be some special sauce in there
| somewhere)
| Fordec wrote:
| The main company there is Zeiss in Germany that makes all the
| high grade optics. Part of the reason ASML is Dutch is it has
| access to the German precision manufacturing up-stream, quite
| literally.
| ragebol wrote:
| Zeiss makes parts of the ASML machines. GP comment asks what
| machine make the ASML/Zeiss machines.
|
| CNC machines I guess for everything besides the optics? Just
| a guess. And measuring equipment.
| nwiswell wrote:
| Mostly these machines are assembled from a combination of
| proprietary parts manufactured using regular machine tools by
| contract manufacturers, and from sub-units purchased from
| specialist suppliers.
|
| For example: proprietary parts including optics, wafer chucks,
| process chambers, structural panels, etc are manufactured to
| spec by contractors. Pumps, valves, motion control boxes, wafer
| robots, loadports, servers, etc are all bought from suppliers.
|
| There's not really any magic. The materials used for the parts
| are sometimes exotic (e.g. single crystal silicon, single
| crystal quartz, yttria coating, PEEK, sapphire, etc), but the
| contract manufacturers use the same old boring machine tools
| that everyone does.
| hashtag-til wrote:
| Oh come on... you just broke the myth I had on my mind for
| many years, that this company was some magical craftwork shop
| for mechanical parts.
|
| Anyway, nice to get a bit more realistic view. Thanks!
|
| Eager to hear more about the software, which I heard some
| crazy stuff about how it is engineered and tested.
| nwiswell wrote:
| Sorry :)
|
| I should not really say too much, but the software tends to
| be kind of a trainwreck. WFE companies are definitely
| engineering-first organizations, but software is a second-
| order concern in general since it is a check-the-box
| requirement rather than a truly differentiating product
| feature, and companies like Lam and AMAT which are
| headquartered in the Valley have serious trouble competing
| for software talent. Moreover the software has a multi-
| decade pedigree with a concordant amount of technical debt.
| Pretty much everything is C++.
|
| Anyway, there are fairly well-specified standards issued by
| SEMI like SECS-II and GEM that govern interoperability. In
| my (highly biased) opinion, the really interesting stuff is
| the real-time control systems that operate on millisecond
| timescales to make minute adjustments on the fly using data
| from onboard sensors to improve process outcomes.
| nwiswell wrote:
| Related: Lam Research (another very large WFE company, #4 by
| revenue after AMAT, ASML, and TEL) announced a 7% layoff today.
| sct202 wrote:
| I suppose all the chip acts haven't really kicked in yet, so
| it'll be interesting to see how the regional deliveries shift. In
| their Presentation Investor Relations file for 2022, they have
| Taiwan as their #1 destination by dollar spend.
|
| Taiwan 42%
|
| South Korea 29%
|
| China 14%
|
| USA 7%
|
| Japan 4%
|
| Europe, Middle East, Africa (EMEA) 2%
|
| Rest of Asia 2%
| kryptiskt wrote:
| I wonder where the machines for TSMC's Arizona fabs would end
| up in that breakdown.
| sct202 wrote:
| The header to the graph says "Ship to Location" so probably
| under the US, unless they ship older units from Taiwan to the
| US and send new units to Taiwan. Intel reportedly sent at
| least one EUV machine from their development site in Oregon
| to a production fab in Ireland, so it's possible they could
| do the same.
| foota wrote:
| I wasn't aware that South Korea was such a big player in the
| chip industry. Is this for compute or something else?
| florakel wrote:
| Samsung
| [deleted]
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