[HN Gopher] 9k-Year-Old Stonehenge-Like Structure Found Under La...
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       9k-Year-Old Stonehenge-Like Structure Found Under Lake Michigan
        
       Author : rmason
       Score  : 119 points
       Date   : 2023-01-25 20:52 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.thearchaeologist.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.thearchaeologist.org)
        
       | umvi wrote:
       | What is currently stopping someone knowledgeable about dating
       | techniques from making a fake underwater Stonehenge with fake
       | caveman inscriptions in order to generate sensational press? Are
       | there properties of dating techniques that can't be (easily)
       | falsified?
       | 
       | (I can't find anything on this website on how the scientists
       | concluded the inscription is from 9k years ago)
        
       | ducktective wrote:
       | Heads up: Just recently, Graham Hancock has challenged John
       | Hoopes (his arch-nemesis?) for a debate on JRE.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyQ4-PVtqRA
        
         | nobody9999 wrote:
         | >Heads up: Just recently, Graham Hancock has challenged John
         | Hoopes (his arch-nemesis?) for a debate on JRE.
         | 
         | Perhaps I'm missing something, but why (and why should we care)
         | is an archaeologist challenging an anthropologist to debate
         | about the Java Runtime Environment?
        
           | LarryMullins wrote:
           | FYI, Hancock is a writer not an archeologist.
        
       | gaucheries wrote:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21649869
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24102035
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27695726
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25478693
       | 
       | (edited for formatting)
        
       | killjoywashere wrote:
       | So a kid in Michigan grows up wanting to be Indiana Jones, also
       | likes diving (a not-uncommon combo), but lives in Michigan. Gets
       | certified for drysuits and finds some rocks. I wonder if there's
       | Bonferroni correction here...
        
       | ankaAr wrote:
       | If they are not naming it Damonreach, all Chicagoans must to sign
       | a letter in protest.
        
       | VLM wrote:
       | "not far away" from the famous Rock Lake Pyramid. There's a lot
       | of unusual stuff in the general upper midwest.
        
         | thepasswordis wrote:
         | The great lakes are the North American cultural equivalent of
         | the Mediterranean sea. There were people living here for
         | thousands of years before European settlers got here.
        
       | freitzkriesler wrote:
       | Here's a direct link so you don't have to give traffic to some
       | dinguses blog https://archaeology-world.com/9000-year-old-
       | stonehenge-like-...
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | Regardless of who stole from whom, this copy of the article
         | isn't any better. It just adds some links, half of which are
         | incorrect like the links for Mark Holly and Greg MacMaster to
         | completely different people that happen to share the same
         | names.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | It is marked as the source by TFA. So why not directly link
           | to the source.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | itronitron wrote:
       | The 'photo' of the diver doesn't seem to match up with the other
       | images in the article. Is there any confirmation or caption for
       | that picture from other articles?
        
         | TylerE wrote:
         | Wonder if it's the civil war era pier mentioned. That'd look
         | about right
        
         | poly_morphis wrote:
         | Yeah, noticed the same thing. The image seems more consistent
         | with a shipwreck than anything else (at least according to my
         | quick image search).
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | It is as if someone is baiting for clicks!
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | Yeah, scrubbing the #SecretUnderground video linked elsewhere,
         | I don't see that structure shown anywhere. If it was part of
         | this structure I would certainly expect it to be front and
         | center in that hype-driven video, since that image is more
         | visually stunning than the actual rocks shown.
        
       | wwfn wrote:
       | https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/archaeologists...
       | 
       | > Back to the media-hyped "Stonehenge" Holley found in Lake
       | Michigan: It might be a small version of a prehistoric hunting
       | structure, similar to the one found in Lake Huron. As for why it
       | was falsely labeled in headlines, VanSumeren says that a hunting
       | blind underwater "doesn't have the same ring to it" as an
       | internationally recognized prehistoric structure like Stonehenge.
       | 
       | maybe this paper?
       | https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.3998/mpub.11395945
        
       | nemo44x wrote:
       | There's other things like entire trees under water there too.
       | When you read the geological history of an area like the Great
       | Lakes, it makes you think a lot about things and how they change
       | slowly and quickly. 10,000 years ago Lake Michigan looked very
       | different and it recessed and came back multiple times over
       | thousands of years. A few thousand years ago the water level was
       | much higher than it is today. Even over a small number of years
       | major changes happened. Glaciers, etc have such an interesting
       | history.
        
       | adolph wrote:
       | _This site seems to gain a life in the media about every six
       | months or so. Sadly, much of the information out there is
       | incorrect. For example, there is not a henge associated with the
       | site and the individual stones are relatively small when compared
       | to what most people think of as European standing stones. It
       | should be clearly understood that this is not a megalith site
       | like Stonehenge._
       | 
       | [...]
       | 
       |  _Dr. John O'Shea from University of Michigan has been working on
       | a broadly similar structure over in Lake Huron. He has received a
       | NSF grant to research his site and thinks that it may be a
       | prehistoric drive line for herding caribou. This site is well
       | published and you can find quite a bit of information on it on
       | the internet. It is highly possible that the site in Grand
       | Traverse Bay may have served a similar function to the one found
       | in Lake Huron._
       | 
       | https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-...
        
       | ntrz wrote:
       | This was actually discovered in 2007, not recently. From the
       | archeologist who discovered it:
       | 
       | > This site seems to gain a life in the media about every six
       | months or so. Sadly, much of the information out there is
       | incorrect. For example, there is not a henge associated with the
       | site and the individual stones are relatively small when compared
       | to what most people think of as European standing stones. It
       | should be clearly understood that this is not a megalith site
       | like Stonehenge. This label has been placed on the site by
       | individuals in the press who may have been attempting to generate
       | sensation about the story and have not visited the site. The site
       | in Grand Traverse Bay is best described as a long line of stones
       | which is over a mile in length.
       | 
       | https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-...
       | 
       | Another article with some additional context:
       | https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/archaeologists...
        
         | unsupp0rted wrote:
         | > The site in Grand Traverse Bay is best described as a long
         | line of stones which is over a mile in length.
         | 
         | That sounds even more interesting to me
        
           | prvc wrote:
           | "A long line of stones which is over a mile in length" could
           | easily be laid by a single person in a relatively short time
           | without any special skills, tools, or knowledge.
           | 
           | Note: the structure described above seems to be a bit more
           | than this.
        
             | unsupp0rted wrote:
             | Sure, but what prompted them to do it? When did they do it?
             | What else do we know about them?
        
               | hammock wrote:
               | A fence?
        
               | flandish wrote:
               | > them
               | 
               | Welp, if the TV series "Ancient Aliens" has told us
               | anything it's that if there is any chance "prehistoric"
               | or "non-white" folks did it, it was aliens. Always
               | aliens. Except when it's time traveling white humans from
               | the future come to the past to help "those people" carve
               | stones.
               | 
               | (I am mocking the horseshit show, in case anyone
               | worries.)
        
             | henryfjordan wrote:
             | But why? Religion? Marking territory boundaries? Some kind
             | of barrier to stop water flowing? Fencing for animals? I
             | think it unlikely someone just decided to do it to mess
             | with future archaeologists.
        
               | spacedcowboy wrote:
               | Tell me, have you ever been young ? :)
        
               | unsupp0rted wrote:
               | Some time in the next few hundred years we will discover
               | that the majority of mysterious archaeological finds were
               | placed there by future humans to mess with past
               | archaeologists.
        
               | Telemakhos wrote:
               | Caribou hunting. You set these up along a path Caribou
               | use to constrain them to a narrow route, and then you set
               | up hunting blinds along the path.
               | 
               | https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1404404111
        
               | dieselgate wrote:
               | Oh wow very good callout and thanks for the academic (!)
               | reference! This reminds me of the weirs used to trap fish
               | - no surprise similar units were created on land for
               | hunting as well
        
               | harrylove wrote:
               | This reminds me of that standup routine from Billy
               | Connolly where he talks about archaeologists finding the
               | remains of an aircraft disaster 400 years from now in the
               | middle of mountainous terrain, seeing people in life
               | jackets and believing there must have been a river
               | nearby.
        
               | LarryMullins wrote:
               | It could be any of the above, but it could have been just
               | about anything. Maybe it was just some bored kid, maybe
               | with autism. At that scale it could have been done by one
               | person all at once over a few days, or bit by bit over
               | the course of a year or so. Maybe somebody commuted that
               | way to their favorite fishing spot and tripped over a
               | rock one day, then decided to clear whichever rock stood
               | out the most to the side. Then the line grew slowly over
               | the course of many years, like farmers creating hedge
               | rows by throwing whatever rock they plow up to the side
               | of the field.
        
         | Kon-Peki wrote:
         | > there is not a henge associated with the site
         | 
         | To be fair, the average person doesn't know that henge is a
         | word with a specific meaning, and Stonehenge is just the name
         | of a place with stones stacked in a pattern. So this is kind of
         | like that.
         | 
         | Also, continued public interest is probably one of the reasons
         | that research grant money continues to be available to study
         | something that was found 15 years ago.
         | 
         | So cut the general public some slack :)
        
           | ntrz wrote:
           | > Also, continued public interest is probably one of the
           | reasons that research grant money continues to be available
           | to study something that was found 15 years ago.
           | 
           | Unfortunately for Dr. Holley, it doesn't seem to have been
           | working out that way in this case (from his page linked
           | above):
           | 
           | > ...state politics in previous years have meant that we have
           | only been able to obtain limited funding for research and as
           | a result little progress has been made.
        
       | bornfreddy wrote:
       | This is a non-amp version of the article: https://archaeology-
       | world.com/9000-year-old-stonehenge-like-...
        
         | gnabgib wrote:
         | From 2020, post at the time[0] included 77 comments, 252 pts.
         | That article was also a repeat, the original finding seems to
         | have been in 2007 at
         | https://holleyarchaeology.com/wordpress/index.php/the-truth-...
         | 
         | [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25478693
        
       | tomxor wrote:
       | This whole website needs flagging, it's chocked full or
       | ridiculous hyped up pseudo archaeology videos.
        
       | salil999 wrote:
       | The direct link is littered with ads to the point it's difficult
       | to read.
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-25 23:00 UTC)