[HN Gopher] Kaktovik Numerals
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Kaktovik Numerals
Author : dhosek
Score : 94 points
Date : 2023-01-25 17:23 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| arketyp wrote:
| Seems like it could be generalized to something more like a base
| 5 where the positions are rotated.
| kmill wrote:
| This sort of rotation-and-superposition number system also
| appears (in base 5 too!) in the game Riven:
| https://dni.fandom.com/wiki/D%27ni_Numerals
|
| It's sort of funny how both Kaktovik and the D'ni numerals were
| invented around the same time (1994 for Kaktovik and 1997 for
| when Riven was released).
| timerol wrote:
| This character set was only added to Unicode last September, as
| mentioned on the page. I first learned about them via this video
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyS6FfczH0Q
| hui-zheng wrote:
| so these numerals notation were invented in 1994. How does the
| Inupiaq people do numeric calculation in the past without
| numerals notation?
| Sharlin wrote:
| Calculation was invented well before writing.
| kerpotgh wrote:
| Probably like a lot of other hunter gatherer groups, worked
| with 10 numbers at most- what they could count on their
| fingers.
| tom-thistime wrote:
| I don't think they'd necessarily have a base-20 system built
| into the language if they didn't work with numbers larger
| than 10.
| pavlov wrote:
| There's another set of countables on feet, for a total of 20.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| Base-20 works well on one hand.
|
| Using your thumb, start counting on the first bone in each
| finger. That gets you to four. Continue with the first
| joint (8), then the second bone (12), then the second joint
| (16) and finally the tips (20).
| scotty79 wrote:
| Font that supports Kaktovik numerals:
|
| https://languagetools-153419.appspot.com/ik/downloads/
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> Arabic numerals, which were designed for a base-10 system, are
| inadequate for Inupiaq and other Inuit languages._
|
| I am curious as to why Arabic numerals (or any number system, for
| that matter) are inadequate for a language.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| TIL a new way to write sheep counts (spoken system:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_tan_tethera )
| 6502nerdface wrote:
| As employed so hauntingly by Jake Thackray in "Molly Metcalfe":
| https://youtu.be/TiXINuf5nbI
| nayuki wrote:
| I see similarities with Chinese
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counting_rods
| Panoramix wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_numerals
|
| The Mayan numerals are also base 20 but like 2000 years older.
| ithkuil wrote:
| TIL Maya used a mixed radix system for calendars, using base 18
| for most significant digits and base 20 for least significant
| digits.
|
| The real world is messy
| kej wrote:
| Why stop at base-20 when base-1000 is available?
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cistercian_numerals
| kibwen wrote:
| How inefficient! It only takes 10 distinct black-and-white
| pixels to represent 1000 distinct glyphs. Even low-res bitmap
| fonts are usually at least 6x6 pixels in size, meaning that we
| can use them to represent numbers in base 2^36. And with modern
| high-DPI screens we have easily enough room for glyphs that are
| 30 pixels square, letting us represent numbers in base 2^900.
| But why limit ourselves to black and white? We have the full
| 8-bit color space to work with, letting us devise a numeral
| system that can easily represent (2^24)^900 numbers using the
| space of a single glyph. :)
| lgdw wrote:
| I remember this being in a NACLO problem last year.
| vintermann wrote:
| > The Inupiaq language has a base-20 numeral system, as do the
| other Eskimo-Aleut languages of Alaska and Canada (and formerly
| Greenland). Arabic numerals, which were designed for a base-10
| system, are inadequate for Inupiaq and other Inuit languages. To
| remedy this problem, students in Kaktovik, Alaska, invented a
| base-20 numeral notation
|
| Nobody suggest this to the Danes, please.
| ithkuil wrote:
| "However, Danish numerals are not vigesimal since it is only
| the names of some of the tens that are etymologically formed in
| a vigesimal way. In contrast with e.g. French quatre-vingt-
| seize, the units only go from zero to nine between each ten
| which is a defining trait of a decimal system."
| monopoliessuck wrote:
| I'd be in support of stopping at 15 and moving to a base 16
| metric. Hexadecimal numbers being discrete from alpha glyphs
| would be a bonus.
| scotty79 wrote:
| Stopping at 10 is nice too and also an option.
| [deleted]
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(page generated 2023-01-25 23:00 UTC)