[HN Gopher] Mjolnir
___________________________________________________________________
Mjolnir
Author : WithinReason
Score : 293 points
Date : 2023-01-25 11:12 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (fabiensanglard.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (fabiensanglard.net)
| neoberg wrote:
| Nvidia Founder's Ed. cards don't go well with sandwich style
| cases. The space behind the card heats as you use the pc and in
| turn causes the motherboard, cpu and other components to heat.
|
| If you're looking for a sff case for Founders Ed cards, I would
| recommend "Sliger Console". It's almost made for this type of
| cooling.
| charles_f wrote:
| Coincidentally, my barely-powerful-enough home server is called
| schinken, German for ham, which is fitting since it's half a
| hammer.
| nikanj wrote:
| In my previous life, I built a SFFPC that packed workstation-
| level punch into a carry-on sized case. Then had a set of
| monitors+keyboard+mouse at each location I worked at.
|
| I was really sceptical when I built it, but it worked beautifully
| for 7 years. Used a SG13 case as the foundation. The only
| downside was intense interest from TSA agents
| chromakode wrote:
| Anecdotally, I've found that TSA interest has decreased over
| time. I built a DAN A4 with an AIO cooler in 2019 and have
| flown over 10 times with it. My last 3 flights, I didn't get
| stopped at all.
| Toxide wrote:
| Fabien if you are reading this. What keyboard is that? It looks
| like you have removable switches given the gap, but the key caps
| also look quite thin making the gap more pronounced. Curious what
| you got going there.
| charles_f wrote:
| I think it's missing the top half of the case, which is why the
| gap is so pronounced
| fabiensanglard wrote:
| It is a Blackwidow Lite with the dust cover that came with it.
| Tepix wrote:
| That is a very pretty small PC case!
|
| Talking about small cases, what's the smallest case anyone has
| gotten away with housing 2x RTX 3090 with adequate cooling?
| jermaustin1 wrote:
| I'm in the same boat. I have dual 3090s for gaming and AI,
| though I rarely ever utilize it for either anymore.
|
| I originally tried to stick them both in my pretty large case
| from BuildRedux, but it would overheat and shut off, so I just
| bought a mining "case" - basically flat steel bars rivetted
| together. It can supposedly hold 8 GPUs, but I only have my 2
| 3090s on it and even then, when they are both working on
| something, it kicks off a LOT of heat, but with a fan blowing
| on it, the GPUs never reach critical temperatures.
|
| Last winter, I had it in stored in my AC return closet, and
| used it for crypto heating, and my AC/Heat was just set to
| circulate. Kept our apartment at around 70F even when it was in
| the 30s and 40s outside.
| DrStartup wrote:
| Very cool looking sff case https://thor-zone.com/mini-itx/
| o_x wrote:
| The case is way too expensive for what it offers and there are
| much better alternatives out there (e.g. Formd T1 that someone
| linked above).
|
| I was ready to buy mjolnir few years ago, but while they
| couldn't decide on basic details (at the time it wasn't clear
| if the outer shell would be 1 piece of aluminum or multiple)
| and the competition seems to have delivered a much better range
| of products.
| msurekci wrote:
| AKA Jonathan
| turnsout wrote:
| Shoutout to you for this Apple deep cut!
| https://www.storiesofapple.net/the-jonathan-computer.html
| thoughtsimple wrote:
| Too bad Apple's management was so timid. That could have
| changed the course of computing back in 1985. I had a
| Macintosh IIx and it was a great computer but I would have
| bought the Jonathon in a heartbeat back then. Thanks for the
| history, first I've heard of it.
| turnsout wrote:
| Sure! A bit more detail in this thread:
| https://twitter.com/bensyverson/status/1494532671623544840
| cozzyd wrote:
| You can always go with a VPX system if you want something
| like that, but obviously that's not cheap at all.
| wildrhythms wrote:
| Disappointed to find there is no photo showing the inside of the
| case with the CPU cooler and cabling.
| fabiensanglard wrote:
| The videos linked also feature footage of the inside before
| closing it.
| Klaster_1 wrote:
| For photos, you can check out the r/sffpc. In general, the SFF
| cabling depends on the amount of effort the builder's willing
| to take. In a similarly sized and laid out Geeek A50+, my
| cabling is a total mess.
| m0rissette wrote:
| 500 ISE
| perihelions wrote:
| I can never tell what I'm supposed to be optimizing personal PC
| workstations for. And at this point I'm too embarrased to ask.
|
| I like the ideas, in the abstract, of optimizing for extreme
| silence (zero moving parts in OP's previous DB4 build), or
| extreme compactness (like this oddity), and so forth. I'm sure
| they're all terribly wrong choices for me personally, but I'm
| glad other people are exploring them, that the solution space is
| well characterized.
| neogodless wrote:
| > what I'm supposed to
|
| Pretty much it's personal. Either what you need for work or
| play, or what you want or some reasonable mix of those.
|
| Personally, I like overkill _and_ tranquility (and value). I 'm
| not 100% there, but I'm close, because I have a powerful (but
| not maximum performance) machine that produces a little noise
| (but nothing grating.)
|
| Someone that loves silence wouldn't like the slight hum, and
| someone that wants maximum quality 4K gaming or machine-
| learning wouldn't love the 10% performance I left on the table
| to save (quite) a few bucks (while reducing power and cooling
| requirements some.)
| VHRanger wrote:
| The truth is that you're much better off with an interior
| solution (taking a tradeoff between future expandability,
| budget, etc.) than a corner solution like extreme compactness
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I have a Intel ECE and RTX 3060 in almost the same case as this
| one. The ECE is a mobo and intel processor in a GPU form
| factor[1]. It's quite small, but can tend to run hot and demand
| lots of fans.
|
| Luckily Intel has a tuning utility which is really useful, and I
| slightly under volt to run much cooler and quieter.
|
| For SFF, I can enthusiastically recommend the Intel ECE line.
|
| 1.
| https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/docs/boards...
| pja wrote:
| Man, that cable routing looks fiendish.
|
| We could really do with a form factor that lets case
| manufacturers route this stuff internally for you, but getting
| the manufacturers to agree on a format & support it is probably
| not feasible sadly.
| stonemetal12 wrote:
| I always find it weird when people use the name "Mjolnir" for
| their products. In mythology it is a botched product. The reason
| why it looks like a sledge hammer with a short handle, is because
| it is. In the myth Loki pulled shenanigans while it was being
| forged so now Thor can't use the handle for leverage to give a
| full power blow with it.
| entelechy0 wrote:
| [dead]
| billiam wrote:
| Au contraire, it's the most successful of products, an
| innovation that comes from a purported flaw. Due to distraction
| while it was made its handle is so short it can only be wielded
| by one hand, which is all Thor needs to deliver his "mightiest
| blows." The implication is that Thor's two handed swings would
| break any weapon.
| bitwize wrote:
| It's kind of the opposite of Maui's hook. Hawaiian myths
| attest that Maui was an average fisherman in terms of skill,
| and his great fishing feats -- pulling up islands and such --
| were exclusively due to the hook.
|
| Personality-wise, Dwayne Johnson's depiction of Maui in
| _Moana_ is pretty spot on: in many Polynesian cultures he is
| revered as a great hero _and_ seen as an egotistical
| douchebag who overestimates his own awesomeness. (The Maori
| story of Maui and the goddess of death, which may have
| inspired the bit from _Moana_ about his taking the Heart of
| Te Fiti, is one of my favorites.)
| bitwize wrote:
| When most people these days think of Mjolnir, they think of
| Marvel Thor's cinder block on a stick (which this case sort of
| resembles).
| asdff wrote:
| I still think of Master Chief's power armor
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| they also spell it wrong, since there's a missing umlaut over
| the o, so Mjoelnir at least or Mjolnir or equivalently Mjolnir,
| and it kinda drives me and my grammatical obsession nuts, like
| "would of" instead of "would have".
|
| cf. https://is.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mj%C3%B6lnir
| dale_glass wrote:
| In mythology pretty much everyone and everything is flawed.
| Gods tend to just be really powerful jerks to a large extent.
|
| But that may be the very point of the name -- it's a small
| package, but very powerful.
| scop wrote:
| One thing that struck me while reading The Iliad as an adult
| was how the gods' personalities and actions seemed to make
| the story _more_ believable. What do I mean you ask? Well,
| they embodied many of the arbitrary and difficult-to-discern
| movements we encounter in life. Forces beyond our control and
| often beyond our cognition. By "believable" I don't mean
| "this is what happened" but rather "this accurately depicts
| the experience of life".
| seanhunter wrote:
| Yes. When I was a child and read Norse and Greek mythology
| I always thought about gods as "this is the god of love",
| "this is the god of thunder" etc. As an adult coming back
| to those myths I realised that the gods are given facets of
| human personality and are actually a lens through which to
| understand our own flaws and traits.
| LanceH wrote:
| I think of it a bit like "Wheel of Fortune". The stories
| of the gods are made to make the listener seem clever.
| dale_glass wrote:
| If you want to see something weird, try Celtic mythology.
|
| You have interesting characters like Math fab Mathonwy,
| who somehow must rest his feet in the lap of a virgin
| unless he was at war, or he will die. Or Cu Chulainn, who
| was amazingly badass to the point that he had to be
| stopped by mass female toplessness.
|
| I haven't the faintest clue what those are supposed to
| symbolize or represent, but it's sure interesting.
| rollcat wrote:
| > As an adult coming back to those myths I realised that
| the gods are given facets of human personality and are
| actually a lens through which to understand our own flaws
| and traits.
|
| It's a very good argument whenever discussing atheism
| with a religious person: if god is flawless / perfectly
| just / infallible / all-loving etc, then why is he
| ascribed with so many human flaws, such as jealousy
| (Exodus 20:5, 34:14, etc), hatred towards a group (Isaiah
| 23:11; modern-day hatred directed e.g. at sexual
| minorities), vengeance (Numbers 35:21), why does he order
| death or destruction (Isaiah 23:11 again), or why does he
| even care how one lives their life?
|
| Never once got a good answer.
| feoren wrote:
| Excellent points. And for the person who said they never
| heard anyone describe God as jealous:
|
| > for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God [Exodus
| 20:5]
|
| God describes himself as jealous!
| Eleison23 wrote:
| [dead]
| tarotuser wrote:
| I wish this weren't buried in a small form factor
| computer build thread, as you deserve a better
| response...
|
| I am an occultist and a witch. I don't particularly work
| with many Gods, but I do work with 2 (Brigid and Loki).
| Others have worked with and against me at times.
|
| First, there are a LOT of these types of beings. The
| Caananite Sky deity, later known as YHVH, is only one
| such. However, He was able to place Himself as the seat
| of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
|
| > if god is flawless / perfectly just / infallible / all-
| loving etc
|
| Simply put: they aren't. Even they do have limits. Those
| limits are a lot different than what we'd normally think
| of as limits. The reason why the Abramanic religions view
| their deity as that is primarily propaganda - the
| believers couldn't come to terms that they were fallible.
|
| > then why is he ascribed with so many human flaws
|
| It's my belief that they were human as well, and figured
| out the secret of ascension.
|
| > (bible quotes)
|
| The quotes you used are primarily the Christian names.
| The Torah version of those are nowhere near as clear as
| you indicate. In ancient Hebrew, no vowels were written
| down. It was the job of the head Rabbi to *interpret*..
| divine, if you will, the hidden vowels and do a
| divination of the words in the Torah. And due to this,
| the meanings of the verses you quote change as times
| change. You can see this if you compare an Etz Hayim from
| decades apart. A stark notable change in readings
| happened just after WWII.
|
| > why does he even care how one lives their life
|
| That's complicated. Many of us in the occult not only
| believe in reincarnation, but also that each of us are
| pieces that are combined to make "me". And between death
| and life, those pieces can be jumbled around.
|
| I've been able to access my past and some of my future
| lives. From someone who is timeless (think: deity),
| they're looking at the big picture, across all your
| lives. That path leads somewhere, and those decisions in
| each life matter to that course. Again, we're usually too
| narrow focused to see that, and most are also without the
| techniques to discern futures and past/future lives.
|
| Some of us have larger plans. others, not so much. But
| usually those "plans" also have larger responsibility,
| and a lot of hardship. I just happen to be on a different
| path than most on this earth. It doesn't make me any more
| or less special than the rest of you.
| rollcat wrote:
| I'm well aware I've barely scratched the surface with the
| question (it's merely meant to challenge a particular
| aspect of fundamentalism), and that the topics of
| spirituality run both broad and deep, have personal and
| communal aspects, you need historical / social
| perspective, etc. To me, spirituality is a vehicle for
| learning about oneself; learning cannot happen without a
| readiness to accept that you were in error - which is why
| I find such "contradiction hunting" intriguing.
|
| It's always interesting to read a different perspective,
| thank you for your response. But let's try not to derail
| the thread any further ;) if you'd like to continue the
| conversation, my email is in my profile.
| gongle wrote:
| Never heard anyone describe The Father as those things,
| maybe Christ. Ive heard God being all good but that is
| because of per definition of good.
| tarotuser wrote:
| I've met Him.
|
| And yes, he does the fear aura that's mentioned in the
| bible. Simply put, he rules by fear and forced ignorance.
| His dictates indicate to stay away from magick in all its
| forms. Only His priests should conduct limited forms of
| magick and divination.
|
| I follow the Light-bringers - they're the ones who
| brought fire, intelligence, inspiration, and technology
| to the world.. even knowing the dangers if wielded
| maliciously. It's also rather peculiar that the very
| light-bringers are also demonized alongside "hellfire"
| memes that go back to Dante's Divine Comedy.
| rollcat wrote:
| You should read the bible then. I've included the
| references.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Ha, classic PC gamer hobby. Spending over $1000 in hardware and
| hours in building it jut to play Diablo 2. I love it.
| awslattery wrote:
| Exterior aesthetic gives me Arris/Motorola Surfboard cable
| internet vibes.
| xwkd wrote:
| Which, in my opinion, isn't too bad for a cold and wholly
| inorganic thing meant to harness electricity for Diablos.
|
| I'm not sure that I've ever seen a beautiful PC. Technology in
| general is ugly. We do everything we can to hide its shameful
| guts.
|
| If you look at the most upvoted pictures on /r/battlestations,
| they're typically small desk jungle-scapes that are appealing
| in spite of, rather than because of, the box.
| jokoon wrote:
| I realized the problem with this format is that it will always be
| more expensive since desktop/gaming computer parts are never
| designed to be smaller. The main reason being cooling.
|
| Although there might be a lot of headroom to use gaming laptop
| parts.
|
| Honestly I'm not really ready to pay 50% more for a gaming setup
| with the same performance, especially since it will still be
| difficult and expensive to upgrade.
|
| So there's no good solution other than finding enough room for
| that gaming desktop.
|
| Personally I use a cheap durable laptop (thinkpad L series) for
| everything I do that doesn't require performance. I'm saving
| electricity and money.
| heyflyguy wrote:
| I want to see an overall build price!
| throwaway13337 wrote:
| All that to play a 20 year old game. Maybe I'm being thick and
| that's the joke?
|
| Anyway, the vertical mount of the video card got me wondering
| again about how reasonable that is. I read something about vapor
| chambers being designed for the video card to be placed
| horizontally. The theory being that there is a heat > rise >
| cool/condense > gravity thing that happens inside these heat
| sinks that gets disrupted if the heatsink is on it's side making
| the cooling less effective.
|
| I'm curious if anyone has more evidence about this.
| chank wrote:
| With that setup, you can pretty much play almost all modern
| games too. I just built a very similar setup using the Lian Li
| A4 H20 and works just fine.
| ujuj wrote:
| If I'm not mistaken, Diablo 2 Resurrected is not a 20 year old
| game, since it is a remaster of the original Diablo 2. It has
| been released ~two years ago.(21/08/2021)
| [deleted]
| smcl wrote:
| I suspect Fabien also wants the option to play more recent ones
| than Diablo 2, otherwise he'd probably spring for a cheaper GPU
| than a Geforce 3060 Ti Founders Edition (which isn't
| _expensive_ but it 's not exactly bargain bucket)
| dreen wrote:
| Its not practical, but neither is building some weird car that
| does something cool but cant use actual roads
| glitchc wrote:
| > All that to play a 20 year old game. Maybe I'm being thick
| and that's the joke?
|
| It's the remaster, not the original.
| pbalau wrote:
| LTT had a stream building a computer using this case too.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il556YxkdhA&t=1400s&ab_chann...
| drunner wrote:
| Along the same line and even smaller is the DAN A4-SFX, just 7.2L
| internally.
|
| After 10 years, I recently built myself a new 'desktop' and used
| one of these and it truly is a 'desktop' now and sits in the
| corner of my desk as opposed to under it like my old tower.
| https://www.dan-cases.com/dana4.php
| fsociety wrote:
| Dan's new C4-SFX case officially hit production today too, for
| anyone wanting to build an SFF that is future proof for
| tomorrow's giga-sized GPUs.
| layer8 wrote:
| See also here for an example build:
| https://blog.codinghorror.com/building-a-pc-part-ix-downsizi...
| archagon wrote:
| Out of all the SFF cases I've looked at that are compatible
| with high-end GPUs, this one is the smallest while still
| remaining practical. I've been using mine with a slightly
| undervolted 3080 FE for the last 2 years, and while it runs a
| bit hot, it's been otherwise a near-perfect little gaming
| machine.
| jitl wrote:
| I'm in a DAN A4 (still using 1080 FE), but it seems like 40XX
| generation cards will never fit. Cards got so big they're
| almost the same size as the whole case!
| archagon wrote:
| "In comparison to the RTX 3080 FE, the 4080 FE is 20mm
| longer, 25mm wider and a whopping 23mm thicker"
|
| Oof, yeah, the 3080 FE just barely fits.
| irskep wrote:
| I reproduced the parts list in PCPartPicker, including some
| manually entered price data:
| https://pcpartpicker.com/user/irskep/saved/x8Jxf7
|
| Comes out to about $2K USD. Just in case anyone's looking to do a
| similar build.
| Tepix wrote:
| The site is down, archive.org to the rescue:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20230125120035/https://fabiensan...
| HeadlessChild wrote:
| As long as Azure isn't down.
| m_mueller wrote:
| It's Microsoft, I'm sure it will never go down!
|
| *oh*
| freeCandy wrote:
| https://archive.md/DIsBr
| BillinghamJ wrote:
| Would recommend the FormD T1 for this form factor. I think it has
| better compatibility & thermal design than this one, but not sure
|
| https://formdworks.com / https://www.reddit.com/r/FormD/
|
| I have the old T1 v1.1 (slightly smaller at 9.5L) - my current
| build has a 4090 FE & 5800X3D in it, all air cooled with
| excellent temps.
|
| There's a particular YouTuber who does a lot of reviewing of SFF
| cases: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTwie1pxuro
| wjdp wrote:
| Just finished moving my rig to the T1 this week. It's a very
| impressive case.
|
| The Mjolnir was what I'd been after for a while but I think the
| T1 was a better choice for me due to the flexibility it offers.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| My T1 package has been sitting on the shelf for months, will
| wait until the 7000 X3D models are available. I do hope the AM5
| ITX mainboards will come down in price, the cheapest there is
| still costs 250EUR.
| BillinghamJ wrote:
| I guess you'll need to be using an AIO for that? I previously
| had an AIO with the 5900X, but needed to switch to air
| cooling to allow for enough exhaust to keep the 4090 happy
|
| Although the 5800X3D technically has the same TDP, it seems
| that it pulls a lot less power for typical use, and is doing
| nicely with the Alpenfohn Black Ridge
| neogodless wrote:
| Corsair 4000D with 2 exhaust fans, Corsair 360mm AIO for my
| 5900X (34deg C idle, 42+ with any use).
|
| Radeon RX 6700 XT stays _happy enough_ at 48-50degC idle
| and of course warmer during games.
|
| How hot was the 4090 getting?
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| When I was looking into ITX builds, that was what gave me
| pause. A true premium price vs what you can get with uATX.
| Significantly bigger footprint, but I do not feel like I am
| paying for glamour.
| fest wrote:
| Yeah, I think it's the same idea as driving a sports car-
| the aesthetic and performance is without a doubt better,
| but it's rarely the pragmatic choice.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Love the "3D Print Files" for $999,999 :-). Interesting way to
| add downloadable content into your shop.
| ledgerdev wrote:
| Are there any solutions for a power button on the front of the
| machine?
| BillinghamJ wrote:
| As far as I'm aware, the only thing you can do on the front
| is add a USB-C port (and only on the T1 v2)
| snalty wrote:
| Currently running a T1 with a 5800X and a 3070 and loving it
| too, it really is a great little case.
| jefftk wrote:
| Nice! It's sad that the machine they liked so much in 2020 is
| already obsolete:
|
| 2020-03-06: _Hopefully, this machine will do for an other 20
| years. Come back and check in 2040._ --
| https://fabiensanglard.net/the_beautiful_machine/
| 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
| I do not think it is obsolete, just that his original design
| was inappropriate for his needs. The power supply + GPU are
| still more than adequate for any task that is not gaming or
| video rendering.
|
| A ten year old processor can do most anything you need.
| philistine wrote:
| While his machine is no longer current, the dream of the
| fanless computer lives on very strong. The Macbook Air no
| longer has a fan and is a tiny little machine with strength to
| spare and passive cooling.
| 93po wrote:
| The Air doesn't work well at peak loads for extended periods
| of time. The use case is very different for gaming.
| haarts wrote:
| I have one. Beautiful. But bought a GPU that doesn't fit because
| the cabling of the GPU is just a bit too much. Stick with the
| GPUs Thor recommends.
| Yoric wrote:
| Ah, for a moment, I thought this was about the [Mjolnir
| project](https://github.com/matrix-org/mjolnir/) in Matrix-land.
| causality0 wrote:
| _The best GPU I could fit in (and cool down), a 1050 Ti, barely
| managed to run Diablo 2 Resurrected._
|
| He could've gotten better gaming performance by using any AMD APU
| with a 680m iGPU.
| fabiensanglard wrote:
| Do you have benchmarks to backup this claim?
| yakattak wrote:
| I have an SFFPC myself, but I fear their days are numbered with
| the ridiculous sizes of GPUs these days. Sure, a 3060 fits in
| this, but that's hardly a cutting edge card.
|
| I had to _bend_ my Ncase M1 to fit my 3070 on top of deshrouding
| it. The fact that the FEs (and some Zotac two fans) are the only
| smaller sized versions of these cards makes me think the primary
| Nvidia partners like aren't terribly interested in making the
| cards smaller because they fit fine in ATX cases.
|
| I hope I'm proven wrong with the 5000 series GPUs. I'd hate to
| have to upsize just to play current games.
| LeSaucy wrote:
| I wish activision blizzard still made mac versions of their
| games. Diablo 2 resurrected would probably run smooth as butter
| and be dead silent on an m2 mac mini.
| tgcordell wrote:
| Whats even worse - they do make it for Switch, which is ARM
| based. A lot of the leg work has already been completed.
| fabiensanglard wrote:
| +200. I wonder what motivated this decision. Too little sales
| for too much investment?
| JonChesterfield wrote:
| Not the hammer. Small computer case.
| WJW wrote:
| It should easily be possible to add a handle to it though.
| Could be either 3d printed or even hand carved from a big stick
| or something. Maybe it should be possible to route much of the
| cabling through the handle as well? Hmmmm.
| Y_Y wrote:
| I wouldn't trust any 3d printed filament for any serious
| hammering tasks. Assuming you have the strength to heft it,
| I'd go with thick old-growth oak screwed directly into the
| motherboard. A steel handle might offer better heat
| dissipation but falls down on aesthetic and battle-comfort
| grounds.
| tomrod wrote:
| Hear hear! But be sure to avoid overly mossy handles as the
| oils built up over the years lower the heat dissipation
| capable via the handle and is a better electric conductor
| -- not a good thing if you are wanting to channel lightning
| at places other than yourself.
| marcus_holmes wrote:
| I'd also want some serious external cable management.
| Serious hammering is not going to be possible with power
| and monitor cable flailing around.
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(page generated 2023-01-25 23:01 UTC)