[HN Gopher] Now Available: Ivory for Mastodon by Tapbots
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Now Available: Ivory for Mastodon by Tapbots
        
       Author : CameronBanga
       Score  : 138 points
       Date   : 2023-01-24 18:12 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (apps.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (apps.apple.com)
        
       | mattl wrote:
       | > Subscribing to either the Yearly or Monthly option will give
       | you access to all of Ivory's features. If you cancel within the
       | 7-day trial period, you will not be charged by Apple. If you
       | cancel anytime after that you will be able to continue using
       | Ivory until your subscription expires.
       | 
       | > If you choose not to subscribe, Ivory will still work but will
       | function in a read-only mode where you won't be able to Post,
       | Follow, Fave, etc.
       | 
       | Interesting.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | This is exactly how Tweetbot worked in later years, iirc.
        
           | mattl wrote:
           | I always used the web UI for Twitter or the official app
           | (rarely)
        
         | codazoda wrote:
         | Yeah, I hoped I could try it out. I went through about 10
         | minutes of setup before I got to pricing. As a newbie to
         | Mastadon, I have no idea if I want in. I'm also interested in
         | contributing as much of just lurking. I'm not ready for another
         | subscription before I know but I understand they need to make
         | money on this.
        
         | TylerE wrote:
         | That's how every App Store subscription works.
        
           | mattl wrote:
           | It's interesting that you have to pay to reply to people
           | instead of just paying to use the app at all.
        
             | gammarator wrote:
             | I appreciate the semi-functional trial so I can get a sense
             | of the look and feel before paying.
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | Yeah, it's not something I've seen before, but others say
               | they've done it with their Twitter app too.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | dakial1 wrote:
       | What would be the incentive to maintain a Mastodon server?
       | Monetary or else? Is it feasible in scale?
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | For the same reasons someone would maintain a forum or some
         | other sort of what we call today "social networking service;"
         | to allow people to come together and communicate, sometimes
         | focused around a certain topic.
         | 
         | Few people will make a living from running a fediverse server
         | but if you have enough of a dedicated audience, you can
         | probably at least fundraise enough to help cover costs.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | Most of them are pretty small, and often take donations. Think
         | community forums back in the day.
        
       | apozem wrote:
       | Instant subscribe. I loved the interface for Tweetbot before Musk
       | rudely killed it. Using Ivory feels like coming home. It makes me
       | want to use Mastodon even more.
        
       | _han wrote:
       | I was never online when the TestFlight invites were shared, but
       | am very happy to try the app now!
       | 
       | Like it a lot so far. Familiar with the interface as I come from
       | Tweetbot. I am glad to be able to support the developers who've
       | unfortunately have to retire their bird app.
       | 
       | If you're still looking to follow some folks on Mastodon, you can
       | find me at @hankruiger@mastodon.nl.
        
       | prvc wrote:
       | > Ivory
       | 
       | Named after a commodity which threatens Elephants with the same
       | fate as befell Mastodons, extinction. Very wicked of them to make
       | light of this.
        
         | number6 wrote:
         | Human tooth are also Ivory
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | "The developer does not collect any data from this app."
       | 
       | very good.
        
       | rpgbr wrote:
       | Great app. My review: https://notes.ghed.in/posts/2023/ivory-
       | mastodon-app-review/
        
         | newman314 wrote:
         | Downloaded but could not log in because I have cookies disabled
         | on iPhone. Would be nice to have a cookieless login option
         | (unclear if it is possible, API key?).
        
           | winterqt wrote:
           | The cookie is merely needed by the web interface -- Ivory
           | gets passed an API key. You can enable cookies temporarily,
           | log in, and then clear them just fine.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | How do other oauth logins work on your phone?
        
       | 98codes wrote:
       | EDIT: oops, nvm
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | xxdiamondxx wrote:
       | Doesn't seem to work with pleroma yet (elixir implementation)
        
         | Cyberdog wrote:
         | That's a deal-breaker for me, sadly, but at least it means that
         | "Mastodon" actually means "Mastodon" in this case.
        
         | asmor wrote:
         | That seems to be deliberate, and I hate it. There are very few
         | reasons any client implementing MastoAPI shouldn't also support
         | Akkoma/Pleroma.
         | 
         | None of the iOS Mastodon apps (except one that is proprietary
         | and seemingly not published on the german appstore) properly
         | support Akkoma notifications, but a somewhat broken Ivory would
         | still be better than a halfway broken Metatext.
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | > There are very few reasons any client implementing MastoAPI
           | shouldn't also support Akkoma/Pleroma.
           | 
           | Depends how you implement it. e.g. If you use `int64` for
           | your IDs, Akkoma and GotoSocial won't work. Or if you send
           | your POST parameters in the URL, Akkoma won't work. There's
           | other subtle stuff too - toot codes unset optional fields as
           | `null` in the JSON it sends (rather than leaving them out)
           | which breaks both Akkoma and GotoSocial.
           | 
           | In summary, someone needs to write a decent MastoAPI spec and
           | get everyone to agree on that rather than this ad-hoc
           | balkanisation.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | I'm guessing they've got something like Go's
         | `DisallowUnknownFields()` turned on and the Pleroma extension
         | block is causing an error.
         | 
         | FWIW GotoSocial seems to work (although Ivory is showing that
         | timeline under the wrong user for some reason - all the GtS
         | timeline posts are shown as the user I logged into the Akkoma
         | instance with.)
         | 
         | In summary, if you're not using a Mastodon instance, probably
         | give it a month or two.
         | 
         | EDIT: Having said that, it's showing every timeline item on the
         | GtS instance as the same one - I suspect they might be using
         | integers for IDs (which is what Mastodon - but no-one else -
         | does) and coincidentally this timeline has IDs that all start
         | with `01`. Which would also explain the Akkoma problem since
         | all those IDs are currently starting with `AR` and thus
         | unparseable as integers.
        
       | lowbloodsugar wrote:
       | I'd say calling it Ivory is tone deaf, since Ivory comes from the
       | poaching and killing of these wonderful creatures and continues
       | to this day. Hm. People trying to make money off free things...
       | 
       | Ivory is _literally illegal_ to own.
        
         | TylerE wrote:
         | Edit: At least in the US, elephant ivory is NOT illegal to own,
         | or even sell domestically, as long as it was either aquired
         | legally or predates the ban, so your entire premise is
         | incorrect, see
         | https://www.fws.gov/guidance/sites/guidance/files/documents/...
         | 
         | Other sources from long extinct sources like as a sibling
         | noted, mammoths, are not. It's not even THAT expensive. For
         | instance, a guitar nut in mammoth ivory is about $30 vs $5 for
         | "bone" or $10 for synthetic/graphite
        
           | gammarator wrote:
           | I didn't know mammoth ivory was becoming more common (due to
           | thawing permafrost). There are still some ethical
           | considerations at play, it seems--this article is decent
           | overview: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/why-woolly-mammoth-
           | ivory-coul...
        
             | TylerE wrote:
             | Isn't chinese traditional "medicine" such a wonderful blend
             | of exploitation and woo?
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | Most people aren't triggered by words alone, despite what the
         | online community may have one think. And thank God for that.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | Eh, it's a pretty common term in the marketing of household
         | products, like paint, bedding, and that ubiquitous soap brand.
        
         | wakamoleguy wrote:
         | Mastodons in particular are extinct. Although your comment is
         | true regarding other sources of ivory.
        
           | yowzadave wrote:
           | Maybe the elephants are still alive and in possession of the
           | ivory in question?
        
       | rglullis wrote:
       | Two questions for those willing to pay $1.99/month for the
       | client:
       | 
       | 1) do you also contribute for the development of the server
       | software? If yes, how much?
       | 
       | 2) is there any type of feature/functionality that would you be
       | willing to pay to have at your instance?
        
         | nerdjon wrote:
         | I am thinking about subscribing once I see how well it
         | performs, I have not been super enthused about the existing
         | Mastodon apps.
         | 
         | To answer your questions:
         | 
         | 1) I don't support Mastodon directly, but I do support the
         | server I am using monthly.
         | 
         | 2) Personally I am a bit worried about instances gaining unique
         | features and I hope we don't see too much deviation on that
         | front.
        
           | rglullis wrote:
           | Follow-up questions, if I may:
           | 
           | > I have not been super enthused about the existing Mastodon
           | apps.
           | 
           | Have you considered donating to the existing/contributing to
           | the development of the existing open source clients?
           | 
           | > I do support the server I am using monthly.
           | 
           | If I may ask: how much? And what if I told you there is a
           | commercial instance where accounts are priced at $10/year
           | that for all intents and purposes is managed to your
           | satisfaction, would you consider it?
           | 
           | > instances gaining unique features
           | 
           | I am not thinking of protocol level differences, but some
           | type of improvement that could help people be more at ease
           | when migrating to AP servers. E.g; a better search system, or
           | a server level bridge that can let you (or other users of the
           | same instance) follow people on twitter/instagram/youtube
           | "transparently"
        
             | nerdjon wrote:
             | Regarding the first, I have been considering it but I just
             | have not yet. My use of Mastodon is still somewhat low so I
             | kinda see it as... there is a monthly infrastructure cost
             | associated with running servers but less so for the apps.
             | So the last thing I want to see is a server shut down and
             | to need to scramble.
             | 
             | I have been doing $8 a month right now, it doesn't get me
             | any benefits on the server and it is through Patreon. I
             | have been wondering if that is too much but I can afford it
             | and I know this can be expensive to run.
             | 
             | Search system I am not really sure about how I would feel,
             | I would not want to feel like I need to switch instances.
             | Just like I wouldn't want certain instances to have
             | different media support. Sill not fully sure how I feel
             | about that really.
             | 
             | Edit: Regarding the commercial instance option. I don't
             | really see the point? Since all (most) of the instances are
             | connected there isn't any value in an exclusive club... and
             | tbh I am not really sure the other servers would not just
             | block it.
             | 
             | My server seems to be moderated just fine, I think its
             | better that those that can support while most can use it
             | for free.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | > Regarding the commercial instance option. I don't
               | really see the point?
               | 
               | Because of _" I have been wondering if that is too much
               | but I can afford it and I know this can be expensive to
               | run."_
               | 
               | Yes, $8/month is not a lot in the grand scheme of things.
               | But I'm yet to see any more efficient and _fair_ method
               | for price discovery than having different commercial
               | instances trying to acquire users through a
               | straightforward business model where accounts are paid. I
               | wrote a bit about that on
               | https://raphael.lullis.net/community-is-not-enough/.
               | 
               | I am reasonably sure that I can have a profitable
               | business on communick if I have enough people paying me
               | ~$0.50/month, as long as _all_ of the users pay me at
               | least that much. More importantly, I am _absolutely_ sure
               | that our society and level of civil discourse would be
               | better if we got rid of  "ad-funded/freemium/donation-
               | based" services, and instead we let market forces act and
               | if we could vote with our wallets.
               | 
               | The way I see it, you shouldn't be paying $8/month to
               | make up for the 15 freeloaders and your server admins
               | shouldn't be dependent on your generosity to be able to
               | continue providing the service. _Everyone_ , without
               | exception, should be paying just enough for the admins to
               | feel like it's a worthy endeavor and willing to compete
               | for your patronage and to improve their service. And
               | because the service is built on free-software and has no
               | strong lock-in, any improvement would quickly be shared
               | and spread throughout all services.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | 1) 5eur/month to my instance.
         | 
         | 2) No, beyond reliability, which it manages well enough right
         | now.
        
           | rglullis wrote:
           | Would you be interested in a professionally managed instance
           | where 5EUR/month lets you bring 10 people? Assume that
           | reliability/moderation/support is at the same level of your
           | existing instance.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | No; I'm pretty happy with my current instance.
             | 
             | There likely is some sort of market for commercial
             | instances, but it's not me.
        
       | menshiki wrote:
       | So far I don't feel like I get enough value from Mastodon but
       | once I do, I will definitely subscribe. I wish there was a Pro
       | version (without fancy features) like something Apollo for Reddit
       | has.
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | junipertea wrote:
         | What's wrong with wanting to get paid for a product you
         | develop?
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | Well, you're not _supposed to_, but _you can if you want_.
         | 
         | Personally, I used the Testflight version for the last month or
         | so, and am happy to pay for this. YMMV.
        
         | nickthegreek wrote:
         | If you find the feature set worthwhile, then yes. For people
         | who need this type of app in their work it can save tons of
         | time and the price doesn't seem predatory either.
         | 
         | Or use a different app. Here is a free and Open source one
         | called Ice Cubes. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ice-cubes-for-
         | mastodon/id64449...
        
         | zinekeller wrote:
         | > But we're supposed to buy proprietary client software?
         | 
         | And that's where _your_ disconnect comes in. You might value
         | any proprietary products worthless, but clearly much more
         | people don 't see it that way. We have proprietary RSS readers
         | and they get many users, there are many users of Apple products
         | even when open-source OSes and desktops are available.
         | 
         | If this is a _must-have_ , then your comments make sense. Until
         | then, I think that let the users decide if they want it. You
         | apparently don't, but are other people feeling the same way?
        
         | lowbloodsugar wrote:
         | Bonus points for calling it Ivory - a luxury item which still
         | results in the poaching and killing of these wonderful
         | creatures today.
        
           | mecsred wrote:
           | It's still ivory if it's on a living elephant. Attributing
           | the word ivory to poaching seems like attributing gold to
           | piracy to me.
        
             | lowbloodsugar wrote:
             | The dentine on the inside of a tusk is what is carved out
             | and called Ivory. The _value_ of Ivory was because it could
             | be carved easily and looked nice, and increasingly because
             | of its rarity. The Ivory inside a tusk has no more value
             | than the dentine inside your teeth - that is, it is a
             | mundane part of the body. Why would someone call their
             | product dentine? Is it a mundane, hidden part of a larger
             | organism? Or is it because, once carved out, Ivory is rare
             | and expensive? Please try to find a reason that it makes
             | sense of an application to be called Ivory that is _not_
             | because it still has connotations of value.
             | 
             | The Ivory trade is disgusting. Anything that continues to
             | promote Ivory as a positive is disgusting.
             | 
             | Update: I think the two folks replying are making my point
             | for me. If your product is a sugar-free gum that is good
             | for teeth, then for sure call it Dentyne.
        
               | Finnucane wrote:
               | >Why would someone call their product dentine?
               | 
               | Well, they couldn't trademark that, so they'd call it
               | this instead:
               | 
               | https://www.dentyne.com/
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | https://www.dentyne.com/
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | doodpants wrote:
           | Mastodons are being poached and killed today?
        
           | chomp wrote:
           | > poaching and killing of these wonderful creatures today.
           | 
           | Where can I find a mastodon?
        
         | hedgehog wrote:
         | Until grocery stores accept GitHub stars and good vibes most
         | people will need to be paid to build software.
        
         | samwillis wrote:
         | From what I can tell the Fediverse/Mastondon community are
         | completely welcoming to proprietory clients. The founder of
         | Mastondon even boosted the announcement.
         | 
         | Its generally best to let the community speak on these sorts of
         | issues, they can be quite opinionated (see "Quote Toots", and
         | "Scraping")
        
         | noirbot wrote:
         | It's fine to prefer people give away things, especially in OSS
         | communities - I'd prefer free stuff too, but I don't feel like
         | it's unreasonable to try to charge for it any more than it's
         | unreasonable to ask for donation or have a premium support
         | package for OSS projects.
         | 
         | Mastodon itself isn't offering a paid option, this is a third
         | party who's promising a more well-featured and supported
         | application than any of the current free/OSS ones. If someone
         | wants to copy those features into an OSS client, they're
         | welcome to, but they haven't yet.
        
         | alexhsamuel wrote:
         | Many (not all) free software ecosystems welcome non-free
         | participants, as long as these honor certain values.
         | 
         | I do think the app store labeling "Free. Offers in-app
         | purchases" is dishonest. It should read, "Demoware. Requires
         | in-app subscription."
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | You have the freedom to buy software and use it with the rest
         | of the network. As much as I like open source, many proprietary
         | alternatives have a look and feel that's much better than the
         | volunteer designed stuff.
         | 
         | This client was made by the company that makes Tweetbot, whose
         | API keys have been retracted recently in one of Twitter's
         | latest changes. They already had a paying audience despite the
         | free nature of Twitter. It only makes sense that they try to
         | get their business going again by targeting a Twitter
         | alternative. Most of the work has already been done, after all.
         | 
         | Mastodon runs on servers. This isn't replacing Mastodon at all.
         | One of the core strengths of the fediverse is the ability to
         | get the client of your preference, self-made, open source, or
         | paid.
        
         | TehShrike wrote:
         | I'd rather pay someone to maintain the software I choose to
         | rely on.
        
         | mkehrt wrote:
         | Tweetbot was a great product I was happy to give money too.
         | I'll probably feel the same way about Ivory.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | This was an instant buy for me for that reason. Tapbots has a
           | long and well-earned reputation for being a great company.
           | I'm so happy that they're bringing their expertise to
           | Mastodon, and think it lends credibility to the whole
           | fediverse. "Oh, there's even an official Tapbots client?
           | Maybe I should get around to checking it out."
        
       | jdlyga wrote:
       | Mastodon is really, really promising. But there needs to be a go-
       | to server to point everyone to. Kind of like with flatpak ->
       | flathub, git -> github. Of course there's options, but there
       | should be an unofficial default. It feels like the early days of
       | email where everyone was at odd domains.
        
         | system16 wrote:
         | For the average user does it even matter what server/instance
         | you join? From what I can tell, once you sign up you can search
         | for, follow, find, post, re-post etc. anything from anyone
         | regardless of which server you sign up with.
        
           | aendruk wrote:
           | Yes, browsing and discovery is strongly influenced by what
           | instance you choose. To understand what parts of the
           | experience are affected, consider the extreme case of a
           | single-user instance.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | Eh, I'm not sure about that, really. If you're already on
             | Twitter, you can follow the people who've migrated over
             | with movetodon or similar, and discover people that way.
             | How often do you browse the Twitter global timeline, after
             | all? (Is that even possible anymore?) On Twitter, and on
             | Mastodon, you largely discover people based on what the
             | people you follow do.
        
           | ChrisArchitect wrote:
           | No, not if content is coming from a blocked/blacklisted
           | server -- which is all up to each server's mods --- and also
           | if you want to move, your content does not go with you.
           | Mastodon isn't perfect or even 'it'.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | Mastodon.social?
        
           | tradertef wrote:
           | I think I have checked that site ~1 month ago. At that time,
           | they did not allow new accounts. Just checked now again and
           | can not create new accounts. So..
        
             | not2b wrote:
             | I think it works better to be on a well-run regional server
             | if one exists, so that the Local feed actually mostly means
             | "local". For folks in the SF Bay Area I recommend
             | sfba.social .
        
         | DHPersonal wrote:
         | But all the odd domains didn't matter because the email got
         | sent to anyone one of them if you got the address correct. The
         | same is true for Mastodon instances.
        
         | phyzome wrote:
         | Having people not all be on the same server (or same small set
         | of large servers) is kind of the point, though.
         | 
         | Having everyone on GMail is not a good thing.
        
         | mattl wrote:
         | http://mastodon.social/invite/FqKugRkc if you want to join the
         | biggest server.
        
       | CameronBanga wrote:
       | If anyone is jumping onto Mastodon (or taking a deeper dive)
       | today with the app's release, posting my handle here if anyone
       | wants to follow. Will follow back here today and presume all are
       | HNers. :)
       | 
       | CameronBanga@mastodon.social for me! Feel free to reply your
       | handle as well!
        
       | fishtoaster wrote:
       | I'll admit, I was mostly excited about Ivory so I could have a
       | paired set of mac and iphone apps that would keep track of where
       | I've read to in my timeline. That was always the killer feature
       | for me of Tweetbot. Unfortunately, it looks like the mac app is
       | not yet out.
       | 
       | I subscribed anyway, though, since it's a nice iphone app and
       | hopefully I can help support the development of the mac app.
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | Check out Ice Cubes, another fantastic (and free!) app that
         | supports Mac, iOS, and iPadOS today.
        
           | riley_dog wrote:
           | To OP's point, Ice Cubes doesn't seem to remember my place in
           | the timeline. When I open the app, it just opens to the
           | newest message.
        
             | rwbt wrote:
             | +1. I like Ice Cubes but I can't seem to find a way to load
             | new posts without jumping to the top of the timeline.
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | > _Check out Ice Cubes, another fantastic (and free!) app
           | that supports Mac, iOS, and iPadOS today._
           | 
           | FYI, Ice Cubes is an iOS app. It does run on macOS by virtue
           | of macOS supporting iOS apps, but its App Store listing notes
           | that it's "Not verified for macOS".
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | If you have an M1, you can probably run the iOS app there while
         | you wait, though that's rarely exactly an amazing experience.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-01-24 23:02 UTC)