[HN Gopher] Now Available: Ivory for Mastodon by Tapbots
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Now Available: Ivory for Mastodon by Tapbots
Author : CameronBanga
Score : 138 points
Date : 2023-01-24 18:12 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (apps.apple.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (apps.apple.com)
| mattl wrote:
| > Subscribing to either the Yearly or Monthly option will give
| you access to all of Ivory's features. If you cancel within the
| 7-day trial period, you will not be charged by Apple. If you
| cancel anytime after that you will be able to continue using
| Ivory until your subscription expires.
|
| > If you choose not to subscribe, Ivory will still work but will
| function in a read-only mode where you won't be able to Post,
| Follow, Fave, etc.
|
| Interesting.
| rsynnott wrote:
| This is exactly how Tweetbot worked in later years, iirc.
| mattl wrote:
| I always used the web UI for Twitter or the official app
| (rarely)
| codazoda wrote:
| Yeah, I hoped I could try it out. I went through about 10
| minutes of setup before I got to pricing. As a newbie to
| Mastadon, I have no idea if I want in. I'm also interested in
| contributing as much of just lurking. I'm not ready for another
| subscription before I know but I understand they need to make
| money on this.
| TylerE wrote:
| That's how every App Store subscription works.
| mattl wrote:
| It's interesting that you have to pay to reply to people
| instead of just paying to use the app at all.
| gammarator wrote:
| I appreciate the semi-functional trial so I can get a sense
| of the look and feel before paying.
| mattl wrote:
| Yeah, it's not something I've seen before, but others say
| they've done it with their Twitter app too.
| [deleted]
| dakial1 wrote:
| What would be the incentive to maintain a Mastodon server?
| Monetary or else? Is it feasible in scale?
| Cyberdog wrote:
| For the same reasons someone would maintain a forum or some
| other sort of what we call today "social networking service;"
| to allow people to come together and communicate, sometimes
| focused around a certain topic.
|
| Few people will make a living from running a fediverse server
| but if you have enough of a dedicated audience, you can
| probably at least fundraise enough to help cover costs.
| rsynnott wrote:
| Most of them are pretty small, and often take donations. Think
| community forums back in the day.
| apozem wrote:
| Instant subscribe. I loved the interface for Tweetbot before Musk
| rudely killed it. Using Ivory feels like coming home. It makes me
| want to use Mastodon even more.
| _han wrote:
| I was never online when the TestFlight invites were shared, but
| am very happy to try the app now!
|
| Like it a lot so far. Familiar with the interface as I come from
| Tweetbot. I am glad to be able to support the developers who've
| unfortunately have to retire their bird app.
|
| If you're still looking to follow some folks on Mastodon, you can
| find me at @hankruiger@mastodon.nl.
| prvc wrote:
| > Ivory
|
| Named after a commodity which threatens Elephants with the same
| fate as befell Mastodons, extinction. Very wicked of them to make
| light of this.
| number6 wrote:
| Human tooth are also Ivory
| hprotagonist wrote:
| "The developer does not collect any data from this app."
|
| very good.
| rpgbr wrote:
| Great app. My review: https://notes.ghed.in/posts/2023/ivory-
| mastodon-app-review/
| newman314 wrote:
| Downloaded but could not log in because I have cookies disabled
| on iPhone. Would be nice to have a cookieless login option
| (unclear if it is possible, API key?).
| winterqt wrote:
| The cookie is merely needed by the web interface -- Ivory
| gets passed an API key. You can enable cookies temporarily,
| log in, and then clear them just fine.
| kstrauser wrote:
| How do other oauth logins work on your phone?
| 98codes wrote:
| EDIT: oops, nvm
| [deleted]
| xxdiamondxx wrote:
| Doesn't seem to work with pleroma yet (elixir implementation)
| Cyberdog wrote:
| That's a deal-breaker for me, sadly, but at least it means that
| "Mastodon" actually means "Mastodon" in this case.
| asmor wrote:
| That seems to be deliberate, and I hate it. There are very few
| reasons any client implementing MastoAPI shouldn't also support
| Akkoma/Pleroma.
|
| None of the iOS Mastodon apps (except one that is proprietary
| and seemingly not published on the german appstore) properly
| support Akkoma notifications, but a somewhat broken Ivory would
| still be better than a halfway broken Metatext.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| > There are very few reasons any client implementing MastoAPI
| shouldn't also support Akkoma/Pleroma.
|
| Depends how you implement it. e.g. If you use `int64` for
| your IDs, Akkoma and GotoSocial won't work. Or if you send
| your POST parameters in the URL, Akkoma won't work. There's
| other subtle stuff too - toot codes unset optional fields as
| `null` in the JSON it sends (rather than leaving them out)
| which breaks both Akkoma and GotoSocial.
|
| In summary, someone needs to write a decent MastoAPI spec and
| get everyone to agree on that rather than this ad-hoc
| balkanisation.
| zimpenfish wrote:
| I'm guessing they've got something like Go's
| `DisallowUnknownFields()` turned on and the Pleroma extension
| block is causing an error.
|
| FWIW GotoSocial seems to work (although Ivory is showing that
| timeline under the wrong user for some reason - all the GtS
| timeline posts are shown as the user I logged into the Akkoma
| instance with.)
|
| In summary, if you're not using a Mastodon instance, probably
| give it a month or two.
|
| EDIT: Having said that, it's showing every timeline item on the
| GtS instance as the same one - I suspect they might be using
| integers for IDs (which is what Mastodon - but no-one else -
| does) and coincidentally this timeline has IDs that all start
| with `01`. Which would also explain the Akkoma problem since
| all those IDs are currently starting with `AR` and thus
| unparseable as integers.
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| I'd say calling it Ivory is tone deaf, since Ivory comes from the
| poaching and killing of these wonderful creatures and continues
| to this day. Hm. People trying to make money off free things...
|
| Ivory is _literally illegal_ to own.
| TylerE wrote:
| Edit: At least in the US, elephant ivory is NOT illegal to own,
| or even sell domestically, as long as it was either aquired
| legally or predates the ban, so your entire premise is
| incorrect, see
| https://www.fws.gov/guidance/sites/guidance/files/documents/...
|
| Other sources from long extinct sources like as a sibling
| noted, mammoths, are not. It's not even THAT expensive. For
| instance, a guitar nut in mammoth ivory is about $30 vs $5 for
| "bone" or $10 for synthetic/graphite
| gammarator wrote:
| I didn't know mammoth ivory was becoming more common (due to
| thawing permafrost). There are still some ethical
| considerations at play, it seems--this article is decent
| overview: https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/why-woolly-mammoth-
| ivory-coul...
| TylerE wrote:
| Isn't chinese traditional "medicine" such a wonderful blend
| of exploitation and woo?
| stronglikedan wrote:
| Most people aren't triggered by words alone, despite what the
| online community may have one think. And thank God for that.
| tshaddox wrote:
| Eh, it's a pretty common term in the marketing of household
| products, like paint, bedding, and that ubiquitous soap brand.
| wakamoleguy wrote:
| Mastodons in particular are extinct. Although your comment is
| true regarding other sources of ivory.
| yowzadave wrote:
| Maybe the elephants are still alive and in possession of the
| ivory in question?
| rglullis wrote:
| Two questions for those willing to pay $1.99/month for the
| client:
|
| 1) do you also contribute for the development of the server
| software? If yes, how much?
|
| 2) is there any type of feature/functionality that would you be
| willing to pay to have at your instance?
| nerdjon wrote:
| I am thinking about subscribing once I see how well it
| performs, I have not been super enthused about the existing
| Mastodon apps.
|
| To answer your questions:
|
| 1) I don't support Mastodon directly, but I do support the
| server I am using monthly.
|
| 2) Personally I am a bit worried about instances gaining unique
| features and I hope we don't see too much deviation on that
| front.
| rglullis wrote:
| Follow-up questions, if I may:
|
| > I have not been super enthused about the existing Mastodon
| apps.
|
| Have you considered donating to the existing/contributing to
| the development of the existing open source clients?
|
| > I do support the server I am using monthly.
|
| If I may ask: how much? And what if I told you there is a
| commercial instance where accounts are priced at $10/year
| that for all intents and purposes is managed to your
| satisfaction, would you consider it?
|
| > instances gaining unique features
|
| I am not thinking of protocol level differences, but some
| type of improvement that could help people be more at ease
| when migrating to AP servers. E.g; a better search system, or
| a server level bridge that can let you (or other users of the
| same instance) follow people on twitter/instagram/youtube
| "transparently"
| nerdjon wrote:
| Regarding the first, I have been considering it but I just
| have not yet. My use of Mastodon is still somewhat low so I
| kinda see it as... there is a monthly infrastructure cost
| associated with running servers but less so for the apps.
| So the last thing I want to see is a server shut down and
| to need to scramble.
|
| I have been doing $8 a month right now, it doesn't get me
| any benefits on the server and it is through Patreon. I
| have been wondering if that is too much but I can afford it
| and I know this can be expensive to run.
|
| Search system I am not really sure about how I would feel,
| I would not want to feel like I need to switch instances.
| Just like I wouldn't want certain instances to have
| different media support. Sill not fully sure how I feel
| about that really.
|
| Edit: Regarding the commercial instance option. I don't
| really see the point? Since all (most) of the instances are
| connected there isn't any value in an exclusive club... and
| tbh I am not really sure the other servers would not just
| block it.
|
| My server seems to be moderated just fine, I think its
| better that those that can support while most can use it
| for free.
| rglullis wrote:
| > Regarding the commercial instance option. I don't
| really see the point?
|
| Because of _" I have been wondering if that is too much
| but I can afford it and I know this can be expensive to
| run."_
|
| Yes, $8/month is not a lot in the grand scheme of things.
| But I'm yet to see any more efficient and _fair_ method
| for price discovery than having different commercial
| instances trying to acquire users through a
| straightforward business model where accounts are paid. I
| wrote a bit about that on
| https://raphael.lullis.net/community-is-not-enough/.
|
| I am reasonably sure that I can have a profitable
| business on communick if I have enough people paying me
| ~$0.50/month, as long as _all_ of the users pay me at
| least that much. More importantly, I am _absolutely_ sure
| that our society and level of civil discourse would be
| better if we got rid of "ad-funded/freemium/donation-
| based" services, and instead we let market forces act and
| if we could vote with our wallets.
|
| The way I see it, you shouldn't be paying $8/month to
| make up for the 15 freeloaders and your server admins
| shouldn't be dependent on your generosity to be able to
| continue providing the service. _Everyone_ , without
| exception, should be paying just enough for the admins to
| feel like it's a worthy endeavor and willing to compete
| for your patronage and to improve their service. And
| because the service is built on free-software and has no
| strong lock-in, any improvement would quickly be shared
| and spread throughout all services.
| rsynnott wrote:
| 1) 5eur/month to my instance.
|
| 2) No, beyond reliability, which it manages well enough right
| now.
| rglullis wrote:
| Would you be interested in a professionally managed instance
| where 5EUR/month lets you bring 10 people? Assume that
| reliability/moderation/support is at the same level of your
| existing instance.
| rsynnott wrote:
| No; I'm pretty happy with my current instance.
|
| There likely is some sort of market for commercial
| instances, but it's not me.
| menshiki wrote:
| So far I don't feel like I get enough value from Mastodon but
| once I do, I will definitely subscribe. I wish there was a Pro
| version (without fancy features) like something Apollo for Reddit
| has.
| sneak wrote:
| [flagged]
| junipertea wrote:
| What's wrong with wanting to get paid for a product you
| develop?
| rsynnott wrote:
| Well, you're not _supposed to_, but _you can if you want_.
|
| Personally, I used the Testflight version for the last month or
| so, and am happy to pay for this. YMMV.
| nickthegreek wrote:
| If you find the feature set worthwhile, then yes. For people
| who need this type of app in their work it can save tons of
| time and the price doesn't seem predatory either.
|
| Or use a different app. Here is a free and Open source one
| called Ice Cubes. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ice-cubes-for-
| mastodon/id64449...
| zinekeller wrote:
| > But we're supposed to buy proprietary client software?
|
| And that's where _your_ disconnect comes in. You might value
| any proprietary products worthless, but clearly much more
| people don 't see it that way. We have proprietary RSS readers
| and they get many users, there are many users of Apple products
| even when open-source OSes and desktops are available.
|
| If this is a _must-have_ , then your comments make sense. Until
| then, I think that let the users decide if they want it. You
| apparently don't, but are other people feeling the same way?
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| Bonus points for calling it Ivory - a luxury item which still
| results in the poaching and killing of these wonderful
| creatures today.
| mecsred wrote:
| It's still ivory if it's on a living elephant. Attributing
| the word ivory to poaching seems like attributing gold to
| piracy to me.
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| The dentine on the inside of a tusk is what is carved out
| and called Ivory. The _value_ of Ivory was because it could
| be carved easily and looked nice, and increasingly because
| of its rarity. The Ivory inside a tusk has no more value
| than the dentine inside your teeth - that is, it is a
| mundane part of the body. Why would someone call their
| product dentine? Is it a mundane, hidden part of a larger
| organism? Or is it because, once carved out, Ivory is rare
| and expensive? Please try to find a reason that it makes
| sense of an application to be called Ivory that is _not_
| because it still has connotations of value.
|
| The Ivory trade is disgusting. Anything that continues to
| promote Ivory as a positive is disgusting.
|
| Update: I think the two folks replying are making my point
| for me. If your product is a sugar-free gum that is good
| for teeth, then for sure call it Dentyne.
| Finnucane wrote:
| >Why would someone call their product dentine?
|
| Well, they couldn't trademark that, so they'd call it
| this instead:
|
| https://www.dentyne.com/
| TylerE wrote:
| https://www.dentyne.com/
| [deleted]
| doodpants wrote:
| Mastodons are being poached and killed today?
| chomp wrote:
| > poaching and killing of these wonderful creatures today.
|
| Where can I find a mastodon?
| hedgehog wrote:
| Until grocery stores accept GitHub stars and good vibes most
| people will need to be paid to build software.
| samwillis wrote:
| From what I can tell the Fediverse/Mastondon community are
| completely welcoming to proprietory clients. The founder of
| Mastondon even boosted the announcement.
|
| Its generally best to let the community speak on these sorts of
| issues, they can be quite opinionated (see "Quote Toots", and
| "Scraping")
| noirbot wrote:
| It's fine to prefer people give away things, especially in OSS
| communities - I'd prefer free stuff too, but I don't feel like
| it's unreasonable to try to charge for it any more than it's
| unreasonable to ask for donation or have a premium support
| package for OSS projects.
|
| Mastodon itself isn't offering a paid option, this is a third
| party who's promising a more well-featured and supported
| application than any of the current free/OSS ones. If someone
| wants to copy those features into an OSS client, they're
| welcome to, but they haven't yet.
| alexhsamuel wrote:
| Many (not all) free software ecosystems welcome non-free
| participants, as long as these honor certain values.
|
| I do think the app store labeling "Free. Offers in-app
| purchases" is dishonest. It should read, "Demoware. Requires
| in-app subscription."
| jeroenhd wrote:
| You have the freedom to buy software and use it with the rest
| of the network. As much as I like open source, many proprietary
| alternatives have a look and feel that's much better than the
| volunteer designed stuff.
|
| This client was made by the company that makes Tweetbot, whose
| API keys have been retracted recently in one of Twitter's
| latest changes. They already had a paying audience despite the
| free nature of Twitter. It only makes sense that they try to
| get their business going again by targeting a Twitter
| alternative. Most of the work has already been done, after all.
|
| Mastodon runs on servers. This isn't replacing Mastodon at all.
| One of the core strengths of the fediverse is the ability to
| get the client of your preference, self-made, open source, or
| paid.
| TehShrike wrote:
| I'd rather pay someone to maintain the software I choose to
| rely on.
| mkehrt wrote:
| Tweetbot was a great product I was happy to give money too.
| I'll probably feel the same way about Ivory.
| kstrauser wrote:
| This was an instant buy for me for that reason. Tapbots has a
| long and well-earned reputation for being a great company.
| I'm so happy that they're bringing their expertise to
| Mastodon, and think it lends credibility to the whole
| fediverse. "Oh, there's even an official Tapbots client?
| Maybe I should get around to checking it out."
| jdlyga wrote:
| Mastodon is really, really promising. But there needs to be a go-
| to server to point everyone to. Kind of like with flatpak ->
| flathub, git -> github. Of course there's options, but there
| should be an unofficial default. It feels like the early days of
| email where everyone was at odd domains.
| system16 wrote:
| For the average user does it even matter what server/instance
| you join? From what I can tell, once you sign up you can search
| for, follow, find, post, re-post etc. anything from anyone
| regardless of which server you sign up with.
| aendruk wrote:
| Yes, browsing and discovery is strongly influenced by what
| instance you choose. To understand what parts of the
| experience are affected, consider the extreme case of a
| single-user instance.
| rsynnott wrote:
| Eh, I'm not sure about that, really. If you're already on
| Twitter, you can follow the people who've migrated over
| with movetodon or similar, and discover people that way.
| How often do you browse the Twitter global timeline, after
| all? (Is that even possible anymore?) On Twitter, and on
| Mastodon, you largely discover people based on what the
| people you follow do.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| No, not if content is coming from a blocked/blacklisted
| server -- which is all up to each server's mods --- and also
| if you want to move, your content does not go with you.
| Mastodon isn't perfect or even 'it'.
| teekert wrote:
| Mastodon.social?
| tradertef wrote:
| I think I have checked that site ~1 month ago. At that time,
| they did not allow new accounts. Just checked now again and
| can not create new accounts. So..
| not2b wrote:
| I think it works better to be on a well-run regional server
| if one exists, so that the Local feed actually mostly means
| "local". For folks in the SF Bay Area I recommend
| sfba.social .
| DHPersonal wrote:
| But all the odd domains didn't matter because the email got
| sent to anyone one of them if you got the address correct. The
| same is true for Mastodon instances.
| phyzome wrote:
| Having people not all be on the same server (or same small set
| of large servers) is kind of the point, though.
|
| Having everyone on GMail is not a good thing.
| mattl wrote:
| http://mastodon.social/invite/FqKugRkc if you want to join the
| biggest server.
| CameronBanga wrote:
| If anyone is jumping onto Mastodon (or taking a deeper dive)
| today with the app's release, posting my handle here if anyone
| wants to follow. Will follow back here today and presume all are
| HNers. :)
|
| CameronBanga@mastodon.social for me! Feel free to reply your
| handle as well!
| fishtoaster wrote:
| I'll admit, I was mostly excited about Ivory so I could have a
| paired set of mac and iphone apps that would keep track of where
| I've read to in my timeline. That was always the killer feature
| for me of Tweetbot. Unfortunately, it looks like the mac app is
| not yet out.
|
| I subscribed anyway, though, since it's a nice iphone app and
| hopefully I can help support the development of the mac app.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Check out Ice Cubes, another fantastic (and free!) app that
| supports Mac, iOS, and iPadOS today.
| riley_dog wrote:
| To OP's point, Ice Cubes doesn't seem to remember my place in
| the timeline. When I open the app, it just opens to the
| newest message.
| rwbt wrote:
| +1. I like Ice Cubes but I can't seem to find a way to load
| new posts without jumping to the top of the timeline.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _Check out Ice Cubes, another fantastic (and free!) app
| that supports Mac, iOS, and iPadOS today._
|
| FYI, Ice Cubes is an iOS app. It does run on macOS by virtue
| of macOS supporting iOS apps, but its App Store listing notes
| that it's "Not verified for macOS".
| rsynnott wrote:
| If you have an M1, you can probably run the iOS app there while
| you wait, though that's rarely exactly an amazing experience.
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