[HN Gopher] Pwning the all Google phone with a non-Google bug
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       Pwning the all Google phone with a non-Google bug
        
       Author : chmaynard
       Score  : 147 points
       Date   : 2023-01-23 16:03 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.blog)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.blog)
        
       | compsciphd wrote:
       | I'm waiting for a public exploit for the pixel 7 so that I can do
       | some modifications to my phone (enable call recording outside
       | countries that google supports call recording in). I could unlock
       | the bootloader and root the phone via "normal" methods, however,
       | that means having something that will then fail google safetynet
       | and the like. A root exploit enables me to make the changes to on
       | flash DBs, and then update the device and the DB changes will
       | persist and my phone will be secure.
       | 
       | Of course, such an exploit could be used for more nefarious
       | things, but as google wants to limit functionality that the phone
       | has (that is legal where I am), I'll be patient.
        
         | phh wrote:
         | I perfectly understand not wanting to spend time on working
         | around Safetynet, but in case you're not aware, I just want to
         | point out that safetynet is pretty reliably broken (Google
         | clearly doesn't use it for security. I'm pretty confident that
         | it's 99% for passing audits, and 1% for shows). Current stats
         | of the Safetynet workarounds is maybe 7 days of down time per
         | year.
         | 
         | Also, my personal point of view of the matter is that apps that
         | require Safetynet, 1. doesn't care about their users, 2. Do
         | just-for-the-show security, and thus users would be better off
         | not using them. I personally don't use any app that require it.
        
       | sigmonsays wrote:
       | any grapheneOS users here who know if it's protected against this
       | CVE?
        
         | ylk wrote:
         | as far as I can tell GrapheneOS doesn't have the patch, yet.
         | 
         | the most recent mention on their releases page is for the
         | 2022120300 release:
         | 
         | > kernel (Pixel 6, Pixel 6 Pro, Pixel 6a, Pixel 7, Pixel 7
         | Pro): update Mali GPU driver to r37p0 (current release is r41p0
         | but there are substantial changes to the driver for the Tensor
         | SoC on Pixels and it will take substantial work to upgrade all
         | the way)
         | 
         | https://grapheneos.org/releases#2022120300
         | 
         | from the article:
         | 
         | > The Arm security team were very helpful throughout and
         | released a public patch in version r40p0 of the driver on
         | 2022-10-07 to address the issue [...]
        
       | AstixAndBelix wrote:
       | Maybe I'm getting it wrong, but what's the problem in Google
       | flagging this bug as "won't fix"? It's the third party driver
       | that has a bug, not their software. Once the bug is fixed by the
       | third party then automatically it will be fixed for Google.
       | 
       | Maybe the author has a stricter and more negative definition of
       | "won't fix" so it sounded wrong to him?
        
         | ccouzens wrote:
         | Even if they're not developing the code, it would be good for
         | them to push the third party to get it fixed, given that the
         | 3rd party is used in their product.
        
           | ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
           | They have to keep the source closed since there is ground-
           | breaking, unicorn rockstar code that bankrupt them of it is
           | open sourced
        
         | dmitrygr wrote:
         | > but what's the problem in Google flagging this bug as "won't
         | fix"?
         | 
         | You do not get to sell hardware as "100% google" _AND_ shitcan
         | a kernel bug. you only get to do one of those two, and you must
         | pick and stick with it.
        
           | randmeerkat wrote:
           | > You do not get to sell hardware as "100% google" AND
           | shitcan a kernel bug.
           | 
           | Turns out you totally can.
        
           | intelVISA wrote:
           | > you only get to do one of those two, and you must pick and
           | stick with it.
           | 
           | Wish that were true!
        
           | AstixAndBelix wrote:
           | We all know not 100% of the hardware is made by google. If
           | there was a problem with the touchscreen, fingerprint sensor
           | or camera drivers we all would be aware it came from a third
           | party.
           | 
           | The author knows full well the GPU is not actually made by
           | Google, he is not an ignorant consumer being duped by
           | marketing, so the label is actually 100% accurate for people
           | in-the-know
        
             | dmitrygr wrote:
             | GPU is not made by google, but kernel _IS_ compiled by
             | google, who can fix a kernel bug in said kernel
        
               | GeekyBear wrote:
               | It's also Google's SOC.
               | 
               | It's their job to support their SOC and the GPU they
               | chose to integrate onto it.
        
         | shkkmo wrote:
         | > Once the bug is fixed by the third party then automatically
         | it will be fixed for Google.
         | 
         | The article explains why this isn't a safe assumption and
         | documents numerous cases where patches were not deployed to
         | Android devices until well after the vulnerability was publicly
         | disclosed. https://github.blog/2023-01-23-pwning-the-all-
         | google-phone-w...
         | 
         | Thus is seems obvious to me that closing the bug as "won't fix"
         | is the wrong response. The issue shouldn't be closed until the
         | security patch makes its way into the Android Security
         | Bulletin.
        
           | readams wrote:
           | You're assuming that Google isn't keeping track of security
           | bugs they forward to their vendors. Almost certainly they
           | opened a ticket in a different system and tracked it there.
        
       | roer wrote:
       | I found this blog post very interesting, and would like to find
       | more like it. Do any of you have go-to sites for this purpose?
        
         | nhoughto wrote:
         | https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com
        
       | herpderperator wrote:
       | It should really say all-Google in the title, as it's otherwise
       | confusing to read. The article even uses all-Google in the first
       | paragraph - but not the title, oddly.
        
       | kokonoko wrote:
       | No such thing as an all Google phone. Trying to market the latest
       | pixels as "Google silicon" is a complete joke. Not only the SoCs
       | used are mildly customized Samsung Exynos, they are also terrible
       | at performance and battery life even by Android standards.
        
       | lern_too_spel wrote:
       | The last section is damning for the Android security team. This
       | is something that should be automatable.
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | If security patching is important to you, you aren't carrying
         | an Android. This has never not been true. Even here, on a
         | Google phone, where Google can't blame manufacturers for
         | dragging their feet on releases. Over a year after Microsoft
         | officially abandoned Windows Mobile, I was still getting
         | security patches faster and more often than Android phones ever
         | did.
         | 
         | If security is important to you, you carry an iPhone. That's a
         | sad state of affairs, Apple has all sorts of problems and a ton
         | of things I just find _weird_ about the way their devices tend
         | to do things and organize information, but it 's just the only
         | actual option right now.
        
           | lern_too_spel wrote:
           | On the contrary, Android is the only somewhat sane popular
           | mobile OS today. I don't want to reboot my phone to update
           | the web browser the way MacOS and iOS update Safari and the
           | way Windows used to update IE. The browser is the application
           | I use the most, and it has the largest attack surface.
        
         | IshKebab wrote:
         | It's not just Android. I think every Linux device has this
         | problem. I seriously doubt my TV has any of these patches for
         | example.
         | 
         | That's not an excuse of course, but a lot of the blame does lie
         | with the Linux devs and their general disregard for security. I
         | suspect it is a major motivation for Fuchsia.
        
       | binkHN wrote:
       | Relevant headline from the article:
       | 
       | > Learn about the details of CVE-2022-38181, a vulnerability in
       | the Arm Mali GPU. ... the exploit that used this vulnerability to
       | gain arbitrary kernel code execution and root on a Pixel 6 from
       | an Android app.
        
         | causi wrote:
         | Damn. Wish this was for Adreno GPUs instead of Mali. Would be
         | nice to have root on my phone.
        
       | femtozer wrote:
       | I was not expecting an Asterix ref here. Is it well known in the
       | US?
        
       | asimops wrote:
       | OT: With the current state of smartphone operating systems, I
       | would need one of those to be release every other month or so. I
       | cannot get to data on 'my' system, because an app decided to put
       | it in their app folder, which I cannot access at all for
       | 'security' reasons...
       | 
       | I mean, I get it. It should not be easy to just unlock my phone
       | and dump all my 2FA tokens. But if I want to back them up, i.e.
       | because steam blocks my account for 7 days if I change to a new
       | device, I want an option to get them!
       | 
       | Make me reboot the thing into a special state, connect it to a
       | computer on blood moon and dance in front of the cam to
       | authenticate myself if you must, but for fucks sake, I want to
       | access my data.
        
         | yoavm wrote:
         | That's why I still root my phone. It's hard to explain, but
         | it's simply the only way to actually be in control of my own
         | device.
         | 
         | For the specific use case you mentioned, however, I recommend
         | Aegis with Syncthing. Very easy to set up a periodic back up
         | and sync, encrypted at rest and on transit.
        
           | remram wrote:
           | Aegis doesn't support Steam.
           | 
           | [edit: yes it does]
        
             | stoltzmann wrote:
             | It does (or at least did a couple months ago) - you could
             | have it import Steam keys and generate the codes in the
             | actual Aegis app. I'm not sure if it requires root or not.
        
               | tecleandor wrote:
               | IIRC (I tried to do it a couple months ago), it requires
               | root to extract the key file.
        
             | 0xdeadbeefbabe wrote:
             | What is so great about Steam on mobile?
        
               | remram wrote:
               | I'm not trying to say it's great, just that a few
               | websites insist on using their own home-brewed 2FA and
               | therefore don't work with the apps that support the
               | standard. For example Twilio/SendGrid, Steam, etc.
               | 
               | Someone in this thread already pointed out that I'm wrong
               | and although they don't use the standard, Steam is
               | supported by Aegis.
        
       | Idiot_in_Vain wrote:
       | There's an endless supply of 0-days in both Android and Windows
       | drivers.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
         | Good then that it auto installs random vendor supplied blobs
         | whenever I plug in a mouse
        
           | fbdab103 wrote:
           | How is this blanket approval system acceptable? The majority
           | of hardware vendors have lost all credibility in producing
           | secure software, and Microsoft think it is ok to let them
           | load a Logitech/HP wizard toolkit for funsies? Few of them
           | offer any features of note, but I would not be at all
           | surprised they run with elevated permissions and contain
           | trivially exploited code.
        
           | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-23 23:00 UTC)