[HN Gopher] Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, s...
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Commercial 3D printers emit traces of toxic fumes, study finds
Author : esskay
Score : 116 points
Date : 2023-01-23 15:29 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (eandt.theiet.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (eandt.theiet.org)
| bobbywilson0 wrote:
| I recently purchased a 3d printer, and I looked for articles
| talking about the risks associated with PLA fumes. This
| article[1] seems to be popularly cited, which includes the
| statement "PLA doesn't look like a problem." I think this is what
| in my experience has been largely the sentiment when I have asked
| around, and read forum posts about the topic. At my local library
| there is a makerlab space, they are free to use and they
| basically run them non-stop uncovered in the room.
|
| One of the other points I found interesting was that someone
| mentioned that a lot of the printers are manufactured in China
| where there isn't as much regulation around required safety
| warnings. However, NIOSH does have a short page[2] on 3d printer
| safety.
|
| In my mind as a new hobbyist it seems like the combination of two
| issues.
|
| 1. The way 3d printers are currently designed and marketed is
| primarily an open-air style that can be used just out of the box.
| Enclosures are usually at least as much as a consumer level
| printer, and you need to have a way to vent it to the outside.
|
| 2. The thinking from the community is largely "PLA doesn't look
| like a problem" and only use an enclosure for ABS and more toxic
| materials.
|
| I understand the comments around hobbyists shouldn't be the ones
| designing filtration systems, but it does seem reasonable to
|
| [1] - https://hackaday.com/2016/02/01/3d-printing-fumes-new-
| scienc...
|
| [2] - https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/newsroom/feature/2022print3D.html
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| IIRC, enclosures aren't common on consumer models because
| there's a patent on that design. Not sure if the patent has
| expired or not but with the trend already in motion, consumers
| are accustomed to open air printers. Printing the parts for an
| enclosure is also a good way to break in a new printer.
| sacrosancty wrote:
| [dead]
| hooverd wrote:
| The Stratasys patent expired a couple years ago, thankfully.
| auguzanellato wrote:
| Enclosures aren't common on cheap bed slinger (the ones where
| the bed moves in the Y axis) because they would need to be
| much bigger than the print area. CoreXY machines are more
| likely to be sold with an enclosure.
| asddubs wrote:
| I know that if I print PLA and stay in the room, it will give
| me a headache after a while. And I can definitely smell it, so
| at least something is getting released into the air. I don't
| know if that actually means it's harmful, but I stopped staying
| in the same room if a printer is running.
| 0xbadc0de5 wrote:
| Traces!? Which one? Mine emits copious amounts. It is melting
| plastic after all - this should be common sense. Which is also
| why I only use it in a well ventilated area.
| ama5322 wrote:
| On the same vein, see the _dust_ that can be produced with filled
| materials:
| https://www.thregr.org/~wavexx/rnd/20230113-carbon_fibers_3d...
| (posted on HN 10 days ago
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34367420 without comments)
| iancmceachern wrote:
| Anytime you heat up plastic (melt it), or create a polymer from 2
| parts (epoxy) there will be bad things released. This us
| fundamental to polymers. Check out all the urethane issues that
| early Disney imaganeers faced
| asddubs wrote:
| do you have more info? I googled but didn't find anything
| relevant
| imdsm wrote:
| I don't but our friendly neighbourhood AI can elaborate:
|
| > It is true that when plastic is heated or melted, it can
| release harmful chemicals such as fumes containing volatile
| organic compounds (VOCs) and particulate matter, which can
| have negative effects on human health if inhaled. The
| specific urethane issues faced by early Disney Imagineers is
| not something that I have information on, but it is possible
| that they were facing health hazards from inhaling urethane
| fumes. However, it is worth noting that many modern plastics
| and polymers are designed to be safer and release fewer
| harmful chemicals when heated or processed, and regulations
| have been put in place to limit exposure to these chemicals
| in the workplace.
| jakear wrote:
| * * *
| nikolay wrote:
| Where's the news? This is why I've never purchased one at home -
| I spend a lot of money keeping my home air as less toxic as
| possible and putting something that melts resins where I live?!
| Never!
| arthurofcharn wrote:
| I would like to get a 3d printer someday, but I can't imagine
| bringing running it inside my home. My 3d printer will be in the
| garage, with the garage door open during printing.
| 71a54xd wrote:
| I keep my 3d printer in a second bathroom with a strong exhaust
| fan. When I use it I just close the door and let it do it's
| thing.
| gamedna wrote:
| correction: ... and do my thing.
| 71a54xd wrote:
| haha I love that HN is down voting this
| dokem wrote:
| It's the 'extrusion room'
| 71a54xd wrote:
| well said my friend (both of which produce VoCs) - this
| made my day a little bit better
| dutchbrit wrote:
| Isn't this just common sense?
| 725686 wrote:
| Common sense is the least common of the senses.
| [deleted]
| olao99 wrote:
| "common sense" things need to be empirically tested and
| validated
| Filligree wrote:
| It's "common sense" if you're familiar enough with chemistry
| and biology to realize that melting plastic means some small
| fraction of it will 'burn' and end up in the air.
|
| On the other hand, many entry-level 3D printers are marketed
| at... children, effectively. They can make for amazing
| christmas presents, but there's no guarantee that either
| parents nor child has any idea how things work at that level.
| There's been a concerted effort to make such knowledge
| unnecessary.
|
| All of that being said, PLA fumes are about as safe as it gets.
| To the best of my understanding it's about on the level of
| cooking food. For hours, granted, and usually without a fume
| hood -- but I don't think it's _likely_ to cause health issues.
|
| ...
|
| And so long as you stick to PLA or PETG, that's probably fine.
| Oh, and so long as your printer was built with a quality, all
| metal heat break, so you never get teflon fumes from scorched
| PTFE lining. And so long as there's never a thermal runaway
| that causes fire, and/or it was built with good thermal runaway
| protection.
|
| These printers are still essentially industrial machinery, no
| matter how user friendly, and a lack of understanding their
| failure modes can be really bad.
| hot_gril wrote:
| > It's "common sense" if you're familiar enough with
| chemistry and biology to realize that melting plastic means
| some small fraction of it will 'burn' and end up in the air.
|
| Last time I was near one, I could clearly smell the
| unpleasant burning plastic.
| esskay wrote:
| I know that smell, and rather annoyingly newer PLA's have
| somehow eliminated it. Which personally I dont see as a
| good thing. You used to know when someone was printing with
| PLA as it emitted a smell that was a mixture of a sweet
| popcorn and burning toast. These days they have little to
| no odour but I suspect its still putting out the exact same
| (if not worse) fumes.
| hot_gril wrote:
| Ah, that's unfortunate.
| Filligree wrote:
| Some printers also come with full enclosures and HEPA
| filters, which do well at removing the smell -- and no
| doubt some of the larger fragments -- but do not actually
| remove the VOCs.
|
| A good, recirculating activated carbon filter can do
| that. But then you need to swap it once per week (whether
| or not you've been printing), _and_ you need the right
| type of carbon.
| calibas wrote:
| The general consensus between actual users seemed to be that
| the fumes were obviously toxic and you should avoid breathing
| them in. However, there were always people who denied this, and
| I've never seen a manufacturer warn users about the fumes.
| Filligree wrote:
| At least PLA fumes are far less toxic than ABS. So there's
| that. Which is nice.
|
| PTFE fumes though...
| WhiteDawn wrote:
| The results of this study actually presents that PLA fumes
| are more toxic than ABS fumes.
|
| In practice though, the study shows PLA is safer because of
| significantly less fume creation with the lower printing
| temperature.
|
| So relative risk for PLA is significantly lower than ABS,
| but it is incorrect to state that PLA is less toxic.
| postalrat wrote:
| You can smell the ABS fumes so they must be worse for
| you. The nose knows! /s
| calibas wrote:
| The human nose is an extremely sensitive chemical
| detector, and should not be dismissed. It's effective
| down to _a fraction of parts per trillion_ for certain
| chemicals.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odor_detection_threshold#Od
| or_...
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| But for others, like carbon monoxide, it is useless and
| leaves you to die.
| LarryMullins wrote:
| You can't count on your nose to warn you, but when your
| nose does warn you it pays to heed that warning. If your
| nose is screaming at you to GTFO, listen to it.
|
| You listen to your other senses, right? When you touch
| something hot, you listen to your sense of touch telling
| you that you're about to get burned. That doesn't mean
| your sense of touch can warn you of all hazards, but you
| certainly shouldn't ignore it when it does.
| [deleted]
| NietTim wrote:
| Honestly, not really. Even with a "super nerd" community like
| Voron, the popular opinion is to print ABS for functional parts
| but none of the standard designs include air filtering and the
| advice is to "just ventilate". I've noticed over the past
| months that questions about the "Nevermore" filter have
| increased but it's certainly not a widely shared best practice
| yet.
| esskay wrote:
| It is, but you still regularly see people showing off their
| latest 3d printer which is sitting in a kids bedroom running
| all day, or their office.
|
| Often when questioned, the existance of it being in a case or
| there being a cheap air purifier in the corner of the room is
| cited as the reason why its 'fine'.
| fasthands9 wrote:
| I do feel like we dont really have sense of effects of
| particulate matter on the body. How does the risk of this
| compare to walking down a street with lots or running ICE
| cars? Or when you go into a basement and can smell the
| natural gas burning - is that a similar risk?
|
| If you told me being in the same room as a PLA printer was
| 10x worse I would believe it. If you told me being next to a
| car for 5 seconds was 10x worse I'd believe it. As far as
| I've read we dont have great metrics.
| nick__m wrote:
| In "ICE cars" the biggest sources of particulate matter are
| the tires and brakes1, don't electric car have those too ?
|
| 1) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317425487/figur
| e/fi...
| fasthands9 wrote:
| Good point! I was mistaken.
|
| Though I think larger point stands that its very hard to
| know risks of different particulate sources (like
| brakes).
| evan_ wrote:
| Tires yes, but since EVs use regenerative braking at
| least some of the time I would think they'd be slightly
| better in that regard. Regenerative braking does not
| engage the brake pads.
| 3pac wrote:
| We really do not have a sense of these things. We are often
| overconfident in our limited senses. I was being poisoned
| by carbon monoxide from my oven and did not realize it
| until it was too late. I told myself "it cannot happen to
| me". Thank God for a few related HN comments, and a hunch
| to buy a CO meter.
| treeman79 wrote:
| One of the worst migraines I ever had was triggered from being in
| room of 3d printers when one burnt something. Went from totally
| fine to I couldn't even stand up in about 30 seconds.
|
| Was hyper sensitive to smells at that point on in life. Perfume
| being the next worst. Though not nearly that bad.
| exabrial wrote:
| So don't operate your 3d printer in an enclosed space? Sounds
| reasonable. You already have to do that with bleach, paint,
| window cleaner, stove cleaner, superglue, your car, your stove,
| your oven, your chainsaw, your weed wacker, your turkey fryer,
| when making beer from wort, and when making salsa from carolina
| reapers. Not that difficult to understand: open a window.
| martin_a wrote:
| Headline:
|
| > Commercial 3D printers emit [...]
|
| Next paragraph:
|
| > [...] emitted from consumer-grade 3D printers
|
| Now what? Commercial or Consumer devices? Sorry, can't take this
| really serious if there's a mistake like this directly in
| headline/teaser text.
| PetitPrince wrote:
| Maybe it's "commercial" as in "sold as a complete product" as
| opposed to a DIY printer using the RepRap firmware or similar ?
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| Actual study:
|
| https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.9b04168
|
| It basically says PLA emits lactic acid and ABS a bunch of
| nastiness. There wasn't much to indicate PLA emissions were
| particularly dangerous. That said, I'd not suggest locking
| yourself in a closet with your 3D printer. But given abs is full
| of nastiness and everything I've ever read about printing with it
| says it's toxic and to ventilate, this article from 3 years ago
| doesn't seem that interesting.
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| In 3d printing circles and even 3d printer instruction manuals
| this has been written for years now... PLA is worse material
| (especially in regards for UV), but can be done inside, while
| ABS needs a heated surface and emits poisonous gasses so it
| should be done in separate ventilated areas (same for resin
| printers).
| olao99 wrote:
| older article, same source:
| https://rh.gatech.edu/news/627220/particles-emitted-consumer...
| jaclaz wrote:
| [2019]
|
| The actual article should be this one:
|
| https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.9b04168
| seltzered_ wrote:
| Notably the title in there says " Consumer-Level 3D Printer "
| Jemm wrote:
| Teflon often used in hot ends is not good when heated above a
| certain temperature. If you have a bird or very small mammal pet,
| be cautious.
| auguzanellato wrote:
| That can easily be solved by replacing the heatbreak with an
| all metal one (<10$) or for an even better bimetal (usually
| copper+titanium) one (~20$ or so iirc).
| tarotuser wrote:
| This is NOT new news.
|
| Same discussion, from 2015 -
| https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/toxic-abs-pla-fumes-3dsa...
|
| And in 3d printing groups, it was common to hear people say "ABS
| smells like cancer". Sure, anecdotes aren't evidence proper, but
| the science certainly bears this claim.
|
| Edit: And to add my own anecdote, I have a large format high temp
| printer. It is capable of printing stuff like ultem (375c tip,
| 220c bed). It is enclosed with a activated carbon filter/fan for
| airflow. But one time when printing polycarbonate, I took a .5w
| green laser to the print area. When it was shining near the print
| interface, I could see ALL SORTS of stuff being flung at high
| speed away from the nozzle. Lets just say I was glad I have that
| machine fully enclosed.
| tdeck wrote:
| It sounds like the issue is particulates rather than gasses; in
| that case an activated carbon filter won't do much and a HEPA
| filter would be better.
| brewdad wrote:
| It may not be "news" but seeing as 3D printing is still very
| much at the Eternal September stage of growth with many less
| technical owners entering the hobby, it's a very good idea to
| keep putting this information and any new knowledge out there.
| olao99 wrote:
| quote from the article:
|
| "The toxicity tests showed that PLA particles were more toxic
| than the ABS particles on a per-particle comparison, but
| because the printers emitted so much more of the ABS"
|
| so, not just ABS
| tarotuser wrote:
| My own anecdote was about polycarbonate printing.
|
| But I would be very scientifically comfortable that ANY
| plastic brought at or above its glass transition state is
| going to outgas toxic materials. And that includes PLA, ABS,
| HIPS, polycarbonate, PETG, PET, ASA, and more. And printing
| is usually quite a bit above tg. Higher temp = more
| nastiness.
|
| That's why my 3d printers are in my workshop, separated from
| our house. And they are also enclosed printers, so I'm less
| worried of particulate exposure. But again, anybody starting
| off early in 3d printing knew this was a definite threat and
| a concern.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Anybody talking about the toxicity of lactic acid on the
| context of perfectly fine breathable air is bull of bullshit.
|
| And yes, we have known since forever that it is highly toxic.
| It's also common on your organism, on much higher
| concentrations than you will get from your printer.
|
| Anyway, the common advice applies. If you get a 3D printer,
| use it on ventilated spaces, and if you will print with
| anything that isn't PLA, make sure it is well ventilated and
| doesn't ventilate into anybody. What really surprised me was
| this:
|
| > these tests indicate that exposure to these filament
| particles could over time be as toxic as the air in an urban
| environment
|
| I expected it to be much worse. Printing ABS does surely not
| smell like an urban environment. I guess a 3D printer
| generates much fewer silent poisons than a city.
| [deleted]
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| Any tips or pointers on activated carbon air filters? How do
| you monitor the filter capacity and know when to change it?
| (Especially since based on my online reading, carbon filters,
| unlike PM filters, just start letting VOCs through as opposed
| to "clogging up")
| tarotuser wrote:
| If you can get them into a shed or an outbuilding, that's
| 99.9% of the problem solved.
|
| You can also enclose the printer. For example, the ender3 pro
| has a box bag that you can put the printer in. Solves the
| problem.
|
| My custom printer has the activated carbon airfilter/fan. Its
| probably overboard, but I did have that in my workspace for a
| while, so it was worthwhile for the time. I have no good
| metric when the filters should be replaced... I don't know
| any way to monitor particulate load in a filter.
| drakenot wrote:
| I have an Bambu X1 Carbon in my office and print sometimes.
| It has a glass enclosure and Carbon Filters, but I have no
| idea how effective they are.
|
| Any ideas if having this enclosed printer in my office is a
| real danger?
| tarotuser wrote:
| I'd trust your nose. If you can smell it printing, it
| means you're smelling the outgassing of unburnt and burnt
| plastics.
|
| You could also get a pm10 and pm2.5 air quality monitor
| for a more scientific measurement. Gasses won't trigger
| those, depending on what they are.. I guess you could
| make a forced air device with 20 sensors in it, but
| nothing on the market is like that.
|
| As for limited exposure, it's probably not too bad. But
| uncovered in bedroom... Whole different story.
| Ekaros wrote:
| All components of ABS are classified probably carcinogenic.
| Likely safe after being formed, but during process I think
| there is probably some risks...
| MisterTea wrote:
| Indeed. I am too lazy to look but I distinctly remember an
| article talking about the hazards of 3d printing fumes before
| even 2015. Possibly all the way to the early days of the
| original makerbot.
|
| I have been in injection molding plants and the smell isn't
| pleasant. Melted/burning plastic odors fill the air along with
| hydraulic fluid and other oils and grease from the machinery.
| aosmith wrote:
| The chemicals used for resin printers make this look benign.
| RugnirViking wrote:
| Use a straight up gas mask, lab goggles, and nitrile gloves
| with mine at a minimum. It's nasty stuff
| Symbiote wrote:
| When deciding whether to buy a resin printer, I found posts
| from teenagers, students etc who'd set up resin printers in
| bedrooms etc. "Oh, the fumes are no problem, I buy low-odour
| resin."
|
| Great, we'll see what happens when they spill some on the
| carpet.
|
| I'm sticking with FDM, and I take some measures to increase
| ventilation when I'm using that.
| jrockway wrote:
| Resin printing is neat, but it's strictly in the "do you
| have a garage?" category for me. I do not have a garage, so
| I do not have a resin printer.
| dylan604 wrote:
| meh, just crack a window. if it's good enough to fool
| mom&dad that you're smoking in the room, it's gotta be
| good enough for expelling noxious gases like this too,
| right? /s
|
| or the people that spray fragrance to cover up smells as
| if that's actually removing the issue rather than just
| covering it up. lighting a match wouldn't be a strong
| suggestion either ;-)
| LarryMullins wrote:
| The smell of these things just _screams_ cancer-death. When your
| senses are throwing up such powerful red flags, it pays to heed
| those warnings.
| Symbiote wrote:
| PLA printing smells slightly of burnt sugar/grain, and is the
| usual material for hobby use, schools etc.
|
| ABS printing smells of burning plastic / a tyre fire (styrene),
| and shouldn't be done without plenty of ventilation etc.
| elischleifer wrote:
| Probably anything intentionally melting chemicals should come
| with built-in fume capture.
| sacrosancty wrote:
| [dead]
| seltzered_ wrote:
| Not just melting chemicals but also forms of laser cutting
| materials too.
|
| E.g. reminded of the death of this couple from carbon monoxide
| (possibly but not concluded to be by a laser cutter setup) -
| https://www.berkeleyside.org/2017/04/20/still-mystery-inspec...
| , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13507734
| devmor wrote:
| Melting, laser cutting, heating, stressing, grinding, any
| time you are releasing any kind of particulate into the air,
| you should be taking precautions not to let it end up in
| anyone's lungs.
|
| Even the stuff that doesn't cause cancer can still cause you
| physical harm. It takes very little effort to just be safe.
| yreg wrote:
| LASER cutting is also melting (and evaporating) chemicals.
| bgirard wrote:
| Isn't cooking also cutting, melting, and evaporating
| chemicals? These definitions are overly broad. Isn't this
| how California ended up with Prop 65?
| hedgehog wrote:
| Fumes from many cooking processes are also pretty bad for
| respiratory health.
| eli wrote:
| Laser cutting brownies is probably fine. That said,
| there's plenty of evidence that fumes from cooking can
| negatively affect indoor air quality. You should always
| open a window when you cook.
| Throwaway045814 wrote:
| You mean the recently highlighted issue of gas stoves, or
| do you mean something that affects electrical stoves as
| well?
| Ekaros wrote:
| Purely an anecdote, but when I cook something with my
| induction range or even air fryer or oven my air purifier
| goes from 1 to 9 or even 12 (1-12 scale). And it is
| somewhat outside the kitchen.
|
| So yeah, there is probably lot going on. From simple
| water vapor to those by products that come with browning.
| LarryMullins wrote:
| In kitchens where lots of frying is done, the whole place
| eventually gets coated in a thin layer of oil, even the
| parts no person could normally reach. Aerosolized or
| vaporized cooking oil, condensing on everything. I doubt
| working in a kitchen like that is good for your lungs in
| the long term.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| That's yet another reason why I hate the trend of the
| last thirty years or so to open kitchens, but I'm in the
| minority so I have to look for older houses that haven't
| had a clumsy renovation to an open floorplan if I want an
| enclosed kitchen.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I just quit cooking with oil like that. I'm better off
| for having an open kitchen to be much less constrained
| and much more healthy. If you're refusing an open kitchen
| because you deep fry everything including the twinkies,
| i'd suggest you have larger issues!
| prova_modena wrote:
| I just changed a filter in my air purifier after having
| it next to the kitchen for about 6 months. The prefilter
| was covered in a layer of cooking oil mixed with dust.
| The built in air quality monitor always shows poor air
| quality wheen cooking. Its no joke, especially in places
| that have poorly constructed/cheap stove ventilation.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| And I have an exhaust hood over my cooking range, so I
| think it's fine?
| LarryMullins wrote:
| I used to regularly visit a hacker space that was
| constantly on the verge of getting evicted because their
| laser cutter fumes (vented out of the building, through
| numerous filters) were pissing off the whole neighborhood.
| Laser cutting is no joke. Eventually they changed their
| policy to only laser cut wood. Wood smoke is still
| carcinogenic, but I guess the smell of wood smoke is more
| familiar to people so it gets fewer complaints.
| SV_BubbleTime wrote:
| SLA owners, away and looking foward meme.
|
| Yea, no this is surprise. Ventilate it.
| sfusato wrote:
| [dead]
| EamonnMR wrote:
| I thought that this was common knowledge. I've been running my
| printer in well ventilated spaces only for years.
| zhala wrote:
| I've seen these studies before and done some testing of my own
| and found this to be true to some degree. I've used PMSA003I and
| BME688 sensors to check for particulate and VOC's. I didn't
| notice any significant increase in PM1 or PM2.5 (which is
| probably to be expected since the particles emitted are probably
| <1um and lower than I can detect). I did see some increase in
| VOC's but nothing alarmingly high from baseline. Roughly
| equivalent to lighting a candle.
| hooverd wrote:
| What were you printing? From my understanding the issue with
| PLA "fumes" is actually ultrafine particulate matter and not
| VOCs.
| slimsag wrote:
| It's important to note that particulate matter and VOCs are not
| equal in danger and bodily effect. For some reason people act
| like they are all the same. It's like saying you got liquid in
| your eyes: the type of liquid matters an awful lot.
|
| In a lot of cases, the VOCs emitted when you melt plastics have
| "unknown" long term effects because nobody has been exposed to
| it in great levels for extended periods. We know some are
| potentially carcinogenic, but that's about it. This isn't true
| of candles, though. We have a pretty good idea of what candles
| can do to you.
|
| Another more concerning part of 3D printing though is UFPs,
| which generally can't be filtered out easily by consumer grade
| air filters, and due to their tiny size can enter deeper
| nodules in the lungs. Reminds me of asbestos.
|
| I'm no expert in any of this, but you should be worried about
| 3D printing fumes. The 3D printing community is going to become
| a long term study of the effects of microplastics imho.
| esskay wrote:
| There does seem to have been a slight shift in mentality over
| the last couple of years in the 3d printing community, with
| groups of users obsessing over statistics from air quality
| and particle sensors.
|
| One thing that is a bit concerning is people building their
| own air filters and releasing them to the public as a
| 'solution' to 3d printer filtration, with the creator having
| no real experience or knowledge in the area other than
| looking at their cheap air quality sensor and seeing a
| difference.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| I don't understand why anyone would DIY an air filter, when
| you can get e.g. a pair of 3M 6092x cartridges for $20.
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| As comfortable as 3M half-face respirators are, having
| people in the room wear a mask until vapors subside is a
| hassle - especially if the room is in the basement or a
| northern climate where opening a window isn't possible or
| desirable.
| calibas wrote:
| That gives you an estimate of the quantity of VOCs, but tells
| you nothing of their toxicity. You can have a VOC that's
| extremely toxic at low concentrations, and a VOC sensor would
| read barely above baseline.
| gruez wrote:
| > I've used PMSA003I and BME688 sensors to check for
| particulate and VOC's.
|
| Keep in mind that the VOC sensors you're talking about aren't
| designed to pick up all types of VOCs. They're designed to
| detect specific types of VOCs (eg. ethanol or acetone)
| associated with human occupation and/or urban pollution[1],
| because that's the use case that they're designed for. If you
| use them to measure something entirely different (eg. plastic
| fumes), it shouldn't be surprising at all that they don't pick
| up anything.
|
| [1] https://www.bosch-
| sensortec.com/media/boschsensortec/downloa...
| Groxx wrote:
| I have yet to see one that doesn't have clear claims otherwise,
| so this doesn't seem too surprising.
|
| Check your MSDS. Even the community-perceived-as-safe PLA is
| pretty clear about recommending "local exhaust ventilation",
| which is quite a step up from "opened a window".
| hooverd wrote:
| The article is talking about FDM with PLA and ABS, but what a
| "commercial 3D printer" is basically meaningless. A ShapeWay's
| fancy MJF machines? A FormLab 2? Your Ender 3?
| esskay wrote:
| I'm not sure it matters too much from the context of the
| article. I took it to mean commercial = any purchased printers
| (vs a self build). The end results in terms of VOC's and other
| nastiness is going to be the same regardless as whilst 'high
| end' printers might be capable of higher temperatures you still
| print the same materials at the same temperatures regardless of
| printer.
| Brian_K_White wrote:
| I think commercial in this case just means a product that a
| consumer can buy as an end user product, vs self made.
|
| The point of the distinction being that most such products,
| like your phone or electric toothbrush, have a lot of safety
| regulations almost like the food supply, where the entire
| store, every store, is a safe space where if you can even buy
| it, then it's safe for you to use at least as directed. I was
| going to say "you can't drink antifreeze" as part of the "as
| directed" part, but they're even removing the classic ethylene
| glycol from that now.
|
| So they are attempting to suggest that consumer 3d printers are
| posing a safety danger on the general population by being
| equally available and equally marketed as any other consumer
| appliance like coffee makers.
|
| It's probably not completely wrong to say that people should
| not be led to believe that an fdm printer is as harmless as a
| coffee maker.
|
| They should still be acvailable, just treated more as tools
| with a few different safety and toxicity considerations. Like
| how anyone can still buy a gas weed trimmer (until they ban
| them) but it's clear that it is not to be used indoors because
| it generates toxic exhaust, nor used by small kids or
| unsupervised because of the business end, the gas, etc.
| hooverd wrote:
| 3D printer manufacturers could be more forthcoming about the
| risks associated with 3D printing. At least with FFF the
| mitigation is relatively easy.
| alonmower wrote:
| I bought a combo laser cutter/3D printer a while back and ended
| up putting an enclosure around it and a dedicated dryer vent in
| my garage wall with a blower fan attached to it so the whole
| thing is at negative pressure. Few hundred dollars an a couple of
| hours of my life but I feel a lot more confident using it now.
|
| I mostly did this because of the laser cutter (plywood can let
| out some horrible smells when cut), but it's nice to be able to
| do it for the 3D printer too. I know PLA is considered 'safe' but
| I figure better safe than sorry for these kinds of things. Hard
| to unwind damage that may take a long time to manifest.
|
| The printer also has a CNC but I very quickly learned that I
| should _not_ run the blower fan when that's running. That was no
| fun to clean up.
| amelius wrote:
| > I know PLA is considered 'safe'
|
| But the article says:
|
| > The toxicity tests showed that PLA particles were more toxic
| than the ABS particles on a per-particle comparison, but
| because the printers emitted so much more of the ABS - it's the
| ABS emissions that end up being more of the concern
|
| which is not very reassuring either way.
| hsglch wrote:
| I wrote a review article summarising studies about emissions
| during 3D printing:
| https://doi.org/10.1016/j.atmosenv.2022.119501 (Should be open-
| access soon)
|
| Basically you can say: - Small particles and gaseous (Volatile
| organic compound - VOCs) are emitted during 3D printing - these
| emissions can be harmful if inhaled - higher temperature results
| in higher emission - ABS probably more harmful than PLA
|
| --> recommendation: - print in separated, ventilated room
| louislang wrote:
| What impact does an enclosure with a filter have on the
| emission of particles and VOCs?
| rmnwski wrote:
| Emissions will go down, no? Also depends on the filter
| somewhat, I guess. But from how I understand it, the
| emissions aren't that high to begin with. Of course breathing
| in metal nano-particles from filaments with additives doesn't
| sound that healthy...
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