[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Has anyone successfully started their career...
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       Ask HN: Has anyone successfully started their career over in their
       30s?
        
       Quit grad school and spent my 20s at a chaotic startup where I
       learned nothing about how to intentionally build a business. I
       spent years running around like a headless chicken to satisfy
       sales-type execs who had no interest in leveling me up. I was a
       moron for staying on as long as I did.  I was eventually let go,
       and for the past few years have been doing on-and-off menial gig
       work. Feel like I've wasted my life. No marketable skills.
       Unimpressive resume. No network. No mentor. No confidence. No
       motivation. And I'm in my mid-30s.  -Is there any hope for someone
       like me?  -Is there any reasonable path to starting over?  -Where
       do I even begin?  -Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like
       me?
        
       Author : confoundcofound
       Score  : 169 points
       Date   : 2023-01-20 16:33 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
       | subpixel wrote:
       | I re-started my career later still. No matter how low you feel
       | you have sunk, I sank that low, or lower.
       | 
       | In my experience it was friends and connections that I mistakenly
       | thought were lost and cold, respectively, that helped me land a
       | role that changed my career trajectory. I also had to clear a
       | major mental hurdle about what I intended to do with my life.
       | 
       | For context, look at photos of yourself from 15 years ago.
       | Remember how old you felt? You were so young! This pattern
       | repeats.
        
       | chresko wrote:
       | Your question is less about restarting your career, and more
       | about mental health. I would suggest:
       | 
       | 1 - See a therapist. What you wrote is what you believe about
       | yourself, and that belief may be false.
       | 
       | 2 - Understand your previous and current behavior. It will follow
       | you, regardless of career.
       | 
       | 3 - Be kind to yourself. Others will criticize your career path
       | without understanding your background or history. HN might not be
       | the best outlet to ask for support in this area.
       | 
       | Yes there is hope. Yes you can 'start over.' Begin with asking
       | for help. When you yourself believe tech will consider hiring
       | you, tech will consider hiring you.
        
       | RajT88 wrote:
       | I went from bare metal/OS stuff to cloud in my 30's. It felt like
       | starting over.
        
         | weatherlite wrote:
         | Interesting, I've always wanted to go over the opposite
         | direction (probably won't happen). What made you do it ?
         | Somehow high level programming feels not as good as low level
         | to me.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | Didn't have a choice. For my particular niche skillset, the
           | work dried up, and the company I was at pushed me to start
           | doing cloud stuff.
           | 
           | So I started learning cloud stuff, and eventually someone
           | came along and said, "Hey we like your mix of skills which
           | include some cloud stuff". That job ended up being all cloud
           | stuff, which required a massive amount of learning to get up
           | to speed.
        
       | PM_me_your_math wrote:
       | Learn how to sell. Read 10 books about selling and by next year
       | you'll be running a business that makes money. If that business
       | is any good, you'll be a millionaire between year 5 and 10
       | ...maybe sooner.
        
       | GiorgioG wrote:
       | My wife just graduated from nursing school at 44 years of age.
       | Plenty of her graduating class were in their 30s, 40s and 50s.
       | She was a social worker until we had our first child - she's been
       | home with the kids for 15 years. There's plenty of hope: decide
       | to do it and let nothing stop you.
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | Yes. My girlfriend became a Trauma Nurse at 40. She's incredibly
       | successful.
        
       | JustSomeNobody wrote:
       | Yes.
       | 
       | Always knew I was a good developer since I started with a C=64,
       | but school was an issue. Graduated HS but didn't go to college
       | because I was so bored at school, like severely bored. Worked non
       | tech jobs through my twenties. Finally sucked it up and started
       | going to college PT in my late 20s. PT so I could pay for it as I
       | went. Graduated mid 30s and have been a dev ever since.
       | 
       | Moral: Sometimes you have to slog through what you don't want to
       | do to get to what you want to do. I do not recommend this,
       | however.
        
       | scarecrowbob wrote:
       | I quit my PhD in English at age 30, when my first wife left me.
       | 
       | Did a lot of low-rent freelance media work, video and audio ad
       | production, and started doing websites. That's just gotten better
       | over the last 12 years.
       | 
       | Stuff takes time. 5 years is a lot longer than you'd think if
       | you're 35.
       | 
       | Also, while I don't think I could get a gig at a bigco, that's
       | okay- there are a lot of boring, okay paying jobs out there in
       | small companies. For me the entry was doing shit websites at an
       | agecny for $12/hr to build a resume, and then 5 years of
       | freelancing at ever increasing rates. That's a shitty hustle and
       | I'd probably just go get my journeyman electrical if I had to do
       | it over again.
       | 
       | But it can be done.
       | 
       | One of the best things to happen to me is to start playing music
       | with 60 and 70 year olds in my mid 30s. The reality it showed me
       | is that 35 is quite young and 5 years is a long time.
        
       | ElfinTrousers wrote:
       | Sure. My career didn't really pick up speed until my last job but
       | one, which I started when I was a few months shy of 40. At that
       | point in my life, I was also in other ways in a comparable
       | situation to how you describe yours. The best advice I can give
       | is to think hard on what's really important to you in this world,
       | and how you can use software to promote that. That will point you
       | in the right direction, and passion will give you boldness.
       | 
       | Best of luck. I like your odds.
        
       | mter wrote:
       | I did, I was in the army in my early 20s, used the gi bill +
       | parents help to get a psychology degree in my late 20s, worked
       | minimum wage for 2 years then went back to school in my early 30s
       | to get my cs degree with the remainder of my gi bill + savings.
       | 
       | Became a software engineer, that was 8 years ago. It's going
       | pretty well now. Highly recommend if you enjoy problem solving
       | and can tolerate writing code.
       | 
       | The most reasonable paths are to go to your state college and get
       | a degree in computer science while trying to get a paid
       | internship every summer then apply for jobs everywhere.
       | 
       | If you don't want to code, get an apprenticeship with a union
       | shop if you want to do the electrician/plumber route although the
       | housing boom is also coming to an end. There's always a market
       | for good electrians/plumbers/contractors.
        
       | ghaff wrote:
       | Depends what you mean by "start over." I've had three 10ish year
       | careers in adjacent but really pretty different technology
       | related roles since my late 20s. (And another different one for a
       | few years before that which I switched from by going back to grad
       | school.)
        
       | uptownfunk wrote:
       | What do you want to do?
        
       | bonecrusher2102 wrote:
       | Yes I did this. It was pretty tough but there is a way.
       | 
       | I was fired from a job in the media industry and decided to start
       | over in tech. It was really a low point for me honestly; I can
       | empathize I think with your post.
       | 
       | I found an entry-level job as a Scrum Master. The role gets a ton
       | of hate, and some of the criticism is justified, but it helped me
       | learn the tech world from the very bottom.
       | 
       | I spent about 4 years doing that. I did a lot of _listening_ and
       | learned an incredible amount from the development team. It was
       | probably the most important thing for me -- whatever career you
       | choose, find a way to start in the trenches with the folks doing
       | the real work.
       | 
       | Then I became a Program Manager. That was really good because it
       | helped me learn the delivery aspect, and get me plugged into the
       | strategy aspect of the techbiz.
       | 
       | I should note here by this time that I had been really lucky in a
       | couple of respects:
       | 
       | 1. I found a company that was VERY good at developing their
       | employees into new roles.
       | 
       | 2. I found mentors and sponsors within that org that helped me to
       | grow and sponsored me for new roles.
       | 
       | But after a few years learning the Program side, I transitioned
       | to PM, where I am very, very, happy, and to be honest have a leg
       | up on some of my peers because of my deep experience embedded
       | with dev teams and understanding their struggles day to day, but
       | also having to service the needs of the leadership/exec team as a
       | PgM.
       | 
       | I guess I would sum this up by saying, it sucks, and it takes
       | time, but it is 100% doable. I'm not exceptional in terms of
       | brains or skills, which I don't mean as a knock to anything or
       | anyone, but rather as a way of saying, "If I can do it, I really
       | do believe others can too."
       | 
       | The thing to focus on are my 1 & 2 points above. Those are
       | absolute game changes and IMO must-haves.
       | 
       | And LUCK again plays an unfortunately large part in all of this,
       | I feel I must repeat. But I wish you the best of luck, and hope
       | that my note gives you an amount of hope.
        
       | sthu11182 wrote:
       | I was an engineer and then I went to law school. There were tons
       | of older students in law school looking to change their careers,
       | from housewives to Ph.D. grads. In intellectual property, it is
       | not unusual to find lawyers whose prior careers was an engineer
       | or scientist for many years. I've seen a few who graduated law
       | school in the mid-to-late thirties, early forties and still go to
       | big law, some eventually becoming partners.
       | 
       | I wouldn't go to law school unless you really want to do it, but
       | the point is there are plenty of people out there looking to
       | change their careers all the time. Some are more successful than
       | others in achieving it (due to luck or other reasons), but it is
       | not as uncommon as you may think it is. It's never too late. Good
       | luck.
        
       | NiagaraThistle wrote:
       | I taught myself to create websites after 30 and have made a
       | decent living and career from it. I may struggle with burnout and
       | lack of motivation from time to time, but that really isn't a
       | problem of restarting a career after 30 as much as it is a
       | personal issue with juggling priorities.
       | 
       | After 30 I taught myself to code HTML, CSS, Javascript, PHP, and
       | build Wordpress themes. I spent 5+ years at a multi-million
       | dollar (US) ecommerce company in which I was part of a small (5
       | dev) team that built a ecomerce cart and inventory system from
       | the ground up (admittedly I was a small player on that team for
       | the first several years). From there I went to a local marketing
       | agency and built out custom Wordpress sites for client.
       | 
       | Throughout all this time I worked on my own side projects and
       | freelanced for small clients.
       | 
       | I took several months off during COVID, and went back to work at
       | an agency building WP sites for clients. I still Freelance, and
       | work on personal side projects.
       | 
       | I don't earn FAANG $$, but I don't live in an area where that is
       | necessary. I make an excellent living for where I live, and it
       | all started after I was 30.
       | 
       | EDIT: To clarify i SWITCHED careers after 30. I had gone to
       | school for Finance and Economics, and came out of school into
       | Financial and Investment sales, then into banking. I did it for
       | 7+ years, hated it in the end, and learned to code so I could
       | build a website for myself, then switched careers when I realized
       | I could actually make $$ building sites.
        
       | Neil44 wrote:
       | https://theoatmeal.com/comics/plane
        
         | slavoingilizov wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing this! It's quite the motivational kick for
         | me and more people need to see it.
        
           | omginternets wrote:
           | In the general spirit of "getting up and helping someone", I
           | remade my career in my early 30's. I'm happy to have talk to
           | you on Zoom/Jitsi, if you think it might be helpful.
        
         | kamikaz1k wrote:
         | that was great, thank you for sharing
        
       | frankus wrote:
       | Not quite the same situation and probably not reproducible, but
       | maybe I can give you a glimmer of hope:
       | 
       | Throughout the 2000s I was in a unrewarding PHP-coding job with a
       | company that was going nowhere and I (extremely foolishly) stuck
       | around out of loyalty to my team, only to be laid off around the
       | beginning of the 2008 crash. I was 33 and felt tied down, stuck
       | in a smallish city with no real tech industry and a bunch of
       | debt.
       | 
       | (I need to interject here that I'm something of a long-time Apple
       | stan, so this might seem unrelatable if you're not).
       | 
       | I was able to find a job with a _much_ better company locally,
       | but it wasn 't the most engaging work, and my boss managed my
       | team more like a McDonald's shift than a tech company.
       | 
       | I had done a bit of Mac programming on a hobby project in the
       | late 2000s, and some of that turned out to be applicable to
       | iPhone programming, so I picked some of that up on the side, both
       | some very basic apps and a couple of contract gigs doing iPhone
       | development that in retrospect I wasn't remotely qualified for.
       | 
       | The company I was working for had a product that was a natural
       | fit for the iPhone and moreso the iPad, so I was able to get them
       | to send me to WWDC in 2010, which as a long-time Apple stan was a
       | bit of a dream come true for me.
       | 
       | Later in 2010 I was contacted out of the blue by a company
       | looking to hire a full-time iOS developer to take over for the
       | contractor that had built the iPhone part of their product. I
       | worked there for a few years through an acquisition (that paid
       | off a lot of my debt) and then switched jobs a couple of times.
       | 
       | Anyway, I'm now nearing 50, earning 3-4 times what I was when I
       | got laid off, working remotely from a place I still really like,
       | and (mostly) really enjoy the tech stack that I get to work with.
       | 
       | Again, with the iPhone being the most successful product in
       | history, this may or may not be replicable.
       | 
       | I don't know that I have any super clear takeaways, but:
       | 
       | 1. Don't lose hope, because while that may be productive for
       | specific initiatives, it's almost never productive for life in
       | general.
       | 
       | 2. If you have the free time/energy, I would recommend playing
       | around with a few different kinds of tech that you genuinely
       | enjoy, either as a user or as a developer (For example I was also
       | playing around with a Mac app project, a Ruby/rails project, and
       | a micromobility project that ended up not leading to paying
       | work).
       | 
       | 3. If you feel like you're starting from a place of very little
       | specific knowledge of anything, you might consider looking more
       | at new technologies where everyone else is also starting from
       | very little specific knowledge.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | TnRHL wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | "Feel like I've wasted my life. No marketable skills.
       | Unimpressive resume. No network. No mentor. No confidence. No
       | motivation. And I'm in my mid-30s."
       | 
       | I have a "successful" career as a dev at a financial company. At
       | least successful as in i was a high performer at one point and
       | ive held the job for 10 years. I feel the same way you do, and
       | similar age. I feel like I could lose my job and never get
       | another tech one. I'll never get back to being a high performer.
       | 
       | The only way to answer your question is the apply/try. I hope I
       | never have to find out for myself.
        
       | rmjacque wrote:
       | I was a process engineer for Intel until 28, got burned out,
       | taught myself a bunch of backend dev & architecture skills and
       | went and worked for Accenture (who will underpay you to learn on
       | the job as long as you have competencies) I got to expertise in
       | many domains by about 35 years old.
        
       | superdisk wrote:
       | Colonel Sanders started KFC in his 60s.
        
       | dejv wrote:
       | I had a modest success when I was 19, struck a gold as an early
       | employee and got rewarded nicely, quit the company, droped out of
       | the school and started to create small side projects. Then when
       | 4HWW book appeared I started travel around the world and just
       | enjoyed the life, drink beers and did all the digital nomadic
       | cliche stuff long before the term become well known.
       | 
       | Then my 30s showed up. Money long gone, pasive income from my
       | side projects dried up as I was not paying much attention to
       | them. At that stage I was living in 250 square feet appartment
       | with my new girlfriend, had about 50 USD in my pocket, resume
       | consisting of some small random project, zero team experience
       | during past decade and idea that I might become farmer after all.
       | Then one day my GF showed up and told me that in couple of months
       | we are going to have a baby.
       | 
       | Well, what can you do, right? Big tech was (and probably still
       | is) out of question, but I was happy to work with startups and
       | just build the resume, going from random line programmer to lead
       | developer within few years. At the end, nobody cares what you did
       | 15 years ago, current experience is what matter.
       | 
       | I am in my late 30s now, things turned out great after all. Got
       | two kids, girlfriend became my wife and I am leading mission
       | critical projects for international banks both as an architect,
       | tech lead and consultant.
       | 
       | There is no sure and simple way in turning things out for better.
       | You might get lucky, you might get not. Take your time and think
       | about what you want to do, just be sure that you can always start
       | again, just don't give up.
        
         | mrj wrote:
         | This. Most (people you want to work for) don't care about
         | beginnings or rough years but many will be interested in a good
         | trajectory. It's not possible to give somebody direction but if
         | they've got that drive already they can be a great hire no
         | matter what they previously did.
        
       | sometimeshuman wrote:
       | The specifics of anyone's path will not be repeatable.
       | Nevertheless I'll share specifics and a general conclusion at the
       | end. 10 years ago in my late 30's I had destroyed my previous
       | career by being out of the industry for too long. I was living
       | off less than $20k a year and lived in the poor area of a poor
       | city. I was lost and then heard the following challenge, "YC is
       | harder to get into than Harvard". I had no real coding skills at
       | the time and the chance of getting accepted were near zero.
       | 
       | I created a youtube video because YC's application asked "what
       | have you hacked lately" and I had no answer. Because that video's
       | audience was expected to be one or two people and I didn't care
       | about the number of views, the DIY-video was authentic. I put a
       | lot of time into it out of respect for YC as an institution. No
       | one would put that much effort in to their first video since it
       | is usually a throwaway. But so many people surprisingly watched
       | it that the hack idea transitioned to an actual product and then
       | company. That alone has netted me $1M+ in addition to Youtube
       | paying me for views (about 1million views).
       | 
       | At the same time I released the youtube video, I taught a class
       | at a local tech space just for the joy of it. I was totally
       | incompetent but believed that someone in the process of learning
       | a skill can teach effectively from the perspective of "here's
       | what I found confusing". A manager from a local tech company
       | walked into the tech space one day and asked around if anyone
       | knew with experience in the framework/library I was teaching.
       | They mentioned me assuming I must be an expert. 10years later I
       | still contract for that company and netted again $1M+.
       | 
       | So three takeaways:
       | 
       | 1) I had a north star so to speak. I never got into YC but just
       | trying for it lead to a purpose and direction.
       | 
       | 2) If the gig jobs are keeping you above water then just work on
       | something that you enjoy and that is hopefully useful, and do it
       | without any expectations.
       | 
       | 3) Remember your network. The only reason I shared a link to my
       | Youtube video was so that it wouldn't have 0 views when YC looked
       | at it. But it turns out one of those people in my network cross-
       | posted it to reddit and it changed my life. I now live in the
       | rich area of a rich city.
        
       | jriot wrote:
       | I went from air traffic controller in my 20s to data scientist
       | (economist as DS is vague in specialization) in my 30s.
       | 
       | 1. I realized the hours of ATC were not for me and began graduate
       | school in international relations, while I was finishing that I
       | applied for grad school again this time in economics.
       | 
       | 2. Got hired as a data scientist for a labor market economics
       | firm, and upped my skillet. Now work as a data scientist manager
       | for a cyber security company. They hired because of my economics
       | background, needed someone for financial/economic risk
       | quantification of cyber events. 3. You have to realize you'll go
       | from expert to beginner again. You'll have experience in the work
       | force but from a domain perspective you're a beginner.
       | 
       | It was a great decision!
        
         | w10-1 wrote:
         | I'm going to use "skillet" for "skillset" from now on!
        
           | jriot wrote:
           | Approved!
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | switched from finance to tech at age 30. went thru a bootcamp,
       | self studied freecodecamp, the works. i did have a good degree
       | but otherwise had to eat crow for a full year retooling myself.
       | not regretting it 7 years on.
       | 
       | you can do this, OP. life is too short to spend it living on
       | autopilot.
       | 
       | https://mixtape.swyx.io/episodes/weekend-drop-swyx-interview...
        
       | sethbannon wrote:
       | Jack Ma considered himself a failure at 30. Failed college
       | entrance exam 3 times. Applied to 30 jobs (including fast food
       | restaurants) and was rejected from them all. Never wrote any
       | code. And then at 35 founded Alibaba. He's now worth $25B. You'll
       | be fine!
        
       | sopooneo wrote:
       | Yes. I'm living proof. I'd always played with coding, and
       | freelanced a little, but was mostly a public school math/physics
       | teacher until just over thirty. That job, in that district, was
       | not sustainable for me, so I put resumes out listing all the
       | things I'd played with over the years and someone took a chance
       | on me and I've been at it since, slowly but steadily adding to my
       | skills and taking on more responsibility. I'm not running
       | companies, but I do lead a couple successful teams now.
       | 
       | One thing that possibly helps but also causes confusion is that I
       | look much younger than I am, so if I only tell potential
       | employers about my tech job history it lines up, visually, with
       | an assumption that I started out of college. If they happen to
       | learn my age they do a double take. Hasn't caused issues, but
       | it's weird.
       | 
       | I've heard from others on here that, fair or not, it can help to
       | ensure you are not "dressing old" by having a hip neice/nephew
       | advice on some age/setting appropriate but _current_ clothes to
       | wear to interviews.
       | 
       | One important note: I worked _very hard_ on personal coding
       | projects for years before making the switch. That probably isn 't
       | absolutely critical but helped me a lot.
        
       | yafbum wrote:
       | A friend had been an actress for a decade, then became a SWE.
       | How? Enrolled in a CS masters program, got a degree, got a job.
       | Entry level but much better than mildly successful acting, where
       | you have to audition (interview for your job) many many times a
       | year. So you're not too old.
       | 
       | The path depends on whether going to school full time will work
       | for you. You don't need a degree from a fancy school to start
       | over, community colleges have plenty of great classes. But if you
       | can't put in some time to get sharp at something, it might have
       | to be a different path.
        
       | cess11 wrote:
       | It's likely you learned a lot about what not to do. Good leaders
       | will find it attractive that you have experience with mistakes
       | and failure, both your own and others', just like they'll put
       | cushions under their employees when they mess up because they've
       | just payed for them being likely to not do the same mistake
       | again.
       | 
       | Might take a while to end up talking to one but they're out
       | there. Confidence and motivation are likely the bigger problems
       | but it's highly dependent on where you live and how what would be
       | the appropriate way forward in those areas.
        
       | taylorhou wrote:
       | don't discount your experience/knowledge of how NOT to build/run
       | a business/startup
        
       | itsautomatisch wrote:
       | I was a BA in Japanese graduate during the 2008-2009 recession
       | and ended up doing IT for a little bit, took time off to teach
       | English, and ended up going back to school for a BSc in Software
       | Development. I landed my first software job over 4 years ago in
       | my 30's and have been fairly happy with my trajectory. Starting
       | at the "bottom" as a junior with people about 10 years younger
       | than me was a bit humbling, but ultimately I realized that having
       | life experience was a big help in moving up faster than younger
       | folks.
       | 
       | Based on your description, it sounds like you have no idea what
       | you want to be doing. This will make it hard to find meaningful
       | work because you'll just float around to different jobs doing
       | whatever is available. I would suggest taking some time and be
       | introspective about what motivates you to get better, otherwise I
       | would just reconsider your career path and try something new to
       | see if it sticks.
        
       | FatActor wrote:
       | I restarted mine at 41. I was lucky to have saved money, but I
       | just walked out of my 25+ year job with a 2 week notice.
       | Decompressed for a year living off savings, and went from
       | hardware to software engineering. Still engineering, but
       | radically different tasks: I went from designing memory
       | architectures (boring as hell) to writing web and mobile apps. (I
       | also went from working with creepy old dudes to more exciting
       | younger people.)
       | 
       | It took a lot of therapy and coaching and crying and some
       | medication, however.
       | 
       | You probably can't do this alone, so definitely get a therapist
       | because it sounds like you are depressed.
        
       | wincy wrote:
       | My previous team lead started coding at 38. Before that he was
       | working at Walgreens. You can definitely start your career over
       | in your 30s.
        
       | busboy wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | orangeplus wrote:
       | Harry Truman ran a menswear store well into his late 30s
        
         | orangeplus wrote:
         | He was 38 when he first entered politics
        
           | badpun wrote:
           | According to Olivier Stone's documentary, Truman was
           | nominated to be the Democratic party's president to "prove a
           | point that a party is such a well-oiled machine that it can
           | push through even a complete nobody". So, in other words, he
           | was incredibly lucky.
        
             | tamaharbor wrote:
             | If you consider a nobody to be a Judge, Senator, and Vice
             | President.
        
               | badpun wrote:
               | Sorry, I messed up the story in my original post. It was
               | about the vice-president nomination.
        
               | orangeplus wrote:
               | Truman had made a big name for himself in the Senate
               | fighting war profiteering, he was in the news a lot by
               | then
        
       | red-iron-pine wrote:
       | Late 20s, but yeah, made the change into tech. Was a government
       | analyst beforehand. I hate tech, but the crash of 2008 happened
       | and I got into the data center and it was good enough.
       | 
       | Know several folks that made a change too. A parent went back to
       | school to get out of engineering and into teaching. Became a
       | professor.
       | 
       | Family friend went to law school at 40 -- she's now a judge in
       | GA. Know a couple of folks who did law school early and then got
       | out; one became a priest, the other got involved in government.
       | 
       | Had a friend who did a PhD in Theoretical Physics at UCLA and
       | then went to Canada to teach; he's now a full-time cheese maker.
       | He went hard on Insta and networked and has grown his business.
       | It's hard work but he sounds satisfied, and his fresh cheese like
       | queso fresco are delicious.
       | 
       | Another friend who was a NOC manager who moved to rural WA,
       | married a local, and got involved in the local RotoRuter / sump-
       | pump business. Literally a shitty job, but he makes his own hours
       | and makes almost as much money, while meeting people and living
       | on his terms. Being rural means hunting and shooting on his own
       | land, him+his wife built a half acre garden, etc. Dokie jokes
       | notwithstanding, I ponder if I should make a choice along those
       | lines, since he's done at 5pm sharp, and the worst parts of his
       | job wash off easily...
       | 
       | My $0.02 -- do some of those career inventories, either online or
       | via paid local groups. I did one when I got out of the military
       | and their predictions were, 10 years later, fairly accurate IMO.
       | Talking about wayyyyy more than just an online MBTI test, too.
       | But figure out, somehow, where you want to go, and then worry
       | about picking up skills.
        
       | fm2606 wrote:
       | Changed careers at 36 y/o and then again at 50 y/o [0]
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33126861
       | 
       | I have no intentions on changing career fields anymore but could
       | definitely see myself upskill and pivot to another area, i.e. AI,
       | data science, or whatever I decide to do.
        
       | lamontcg wrote:
       | I switched from being a System Admin/Engineer to being a SWE when
       | I was 40 -- and that was a decade ago for me.
        
       | germinalphrase wrote:
       | I am in my late 30's. I had been teaching at the high school
       | level, but left in June. I had/have complicated feelings about
       | exiting that profession, but I knew I needed to commit or I
       | wouldn't leave.
       | 
       | I immediately began asking everyone I knew if I could do an
       | informational interview about their professional lives. Often,
       | their first hand experience helped me know that a specific path
       | would be closed or undesirable for me (which is very helpful),
       | but I always closed with something to the effect of "knowing what
       | you know about my background and interests, do you know anyone I
       | should talk to?"
       | 
       | This was a critically important question in my journey because it
       | planted a seed. Even if my friend/acquaintance/former colleague
       | said 'No' in the moment, I got a number a great follow up emails.
       | 
       | For those secondary connections, it also helped to ask for a
       | personal introduction via email rather than just contact info.
       | "Hey, Bob - this is my old friend G. He's interesting to blah-
       | blah-blah. You two should connect sometime". The secondary
       | contact was much more likely to engage vs a cold email.
       | 
       | I probably did two dozen calls/Zoom meetings with people between
       | July-Aug.
       | 
       | Eventually, this led me to an opportunity at a small tech
       | consultancy. I almost doubled my salary, improved my benefits,
       | and have a substantially better work/life/stress balance. I
       | probably wont stay in this position forever, but it was a solid
       | win for me and my family.
       | 
       | The advice I was given and repeat here: "you wont get a job from
       | your friends; you'll get a job from the friends of your friends",
       | so start connecting with and talking to everyone you possibly can
       | (on LinkedIn, Facebook, at parties, everywhere possible).
        
       | ProAm wrote:
       | Manifest your own destiny. What are you going to do if people in
       | this thread say no its not possible? What are you going to do if
       | they say it is possible? Either way you have to do the work.
       | 
       | No network is odd since you have been working for the past 10
       | years. Do you not have a linkedin or still communicate with any
       | of those people? It's your best bet. Or if you want an easy route
       | to employment find a technical recruiter. It's still a very good
       | job market for tech workers.
        
       | markus_zhang wrote:
       | Jumped a string of IT work which lands me as Data engineer after
       | 35 with no relevant work experience.
       | 
       | But I was lucky to enjoy the previous IT gold rush since 2015. I
       | probably won't be able to do it now.
       | 
       | Luck is the determining factor in my case so wish you good luck.
       | A lot of people are going to share the same zero to developer
       | after 30 but you need to read carefully.
       | 
       | As an old saying, an elevator takes 3 people up to the top floor.
       | People ask how they managed to move to top, one says he was doing
       | pushups in the elevator, another says he was jumping and the
       | third says he was reading some books.
        
       | dougmwne wrote:
       | Yes.
       | 
       | I was 30 when I took a major step back to reevaluate. I had some
       | positive professional experiences that I was able to use as
       | building blocks, but I was severely underpaid and
       | underchallenged. I was on the road to nowhere, and certainly not
       | retirement.
       | 
       | I gave myself a year to explore new things and not be an
       | employee. I traveled, lived outside my home country for the first
       | time, learned about startups, taught myself new tech, explored
       | small business ideas and went on a lot of long walks. It was me
       | time and it was glorious.
       | 
       | When I came back to the working world, I found I had a pretty
       | radically changed perspective and I pivoted into a tech career. I
       | have built it up over the past 7 years and now am in a fantastic
       | niche!
       | 
       | You are never too old to redefine yourself and the world has no
       | shortage of problems to solve, but a huge shortage of people
       | willing to really solve them.
        
       | c7DJTLrn wrote:
       | HN gets this question like once a week. There is nothing stopping
       | you. You're asking this because you're either looking for a
       | reason not to start or something to attribute failure to because
       | you're afraid of failing.
        
       | larsrc wrote:
       | My father-in-law went from rancher to engineer to salesman to
       | minister to writer, the final change in his 60ies. It's never too
       | late.
        
       | nyarlathotep_ wrote:
       | I was a mess most of my 20s.
       | 
       | Got the cheapest, fastest BS CS degree I could from an affordable
       | State school while working menial jobs from ~28-32 (mid-late 30s
       | now), had a few crap internships and have been mostly employed
       | (at times well compensated) since--writing code and working in
       | adjacent roles and with related skillsets (Ops type crap).
       | 
       | I've worked with bootcampers and self-taught types too-it's 100%
       | on the individual.
       | 
       | The practical skills are almost entirely acquired by curiosity
       | and experience (job related and personal experimentation).
       | 
       | I'm new in my career, but I've done lots of interviews and I
       | personally really like to see/hear about the latter, even
       | casually, FWIW.
       | 
       | With that said, make sure you have the energy in the tank to do
       | it, and commit to it. I spent a lot of my reserve doing this and
       | couldn't do it at this point in my life again (e.g something like
       | a Grad Degree or Med school or a legit career change with a
       | requisite re-skilling would be difficult for me again, if not
       | infeasible).
       | 
       | If you're going to do it, mentally commit, and move forward
       | relentlessly and do not stop, stutter, or hesitate.
       | 
       | EDIT: Frankly, if you have passion for working in "software
       | roles" broadly and let your interest (I'm not using the silly "p"
       | word here) carry you, you'll often find you're better in a lot of
       | practical ways than folks just putting in the bare minimum in
       | your average role at $AVERAGE_CORP.
        
       | intrasight wrote:
       | My GF went back to school to become a layer in her 30s after
       | having two kids.
       | 
       | My M-I-L went back to school to become a teacher in her 40s and
       | retired with a fat pension.
       | 
       | First, decide what you want to become.
        
       | JonoBB wrote:
       | Yes, you can change your career if you have the passion and you
       | work hard. More than a little bit of luck also helps.
       | 
       | I studied corporate finance at university (including to Masters
       | level part time while working). Did well in the investment
       | banking arena over a 10 year period (including being a Director
       | of a subsidiary of a listed company).
       | 
       | Went travelling for a few months, came back and whilst
       | contracting decided to build a SaaS. I had almost zero
       | programming experience outside of VBA. This was at the age of 38.
       | 
       | I ended up with 5 SaaS companies (some more successful than
       | others), plus started my own software consulting business (grew
       | to 8 employees). Also had 2 kids in the meantime.
       | 
       | I'm now head of Engineering at a ~100 person company.
        
       | elhudy wrote:
       | I'm in my 30's and currently using an MBA from a top program to
       | pivot into a field unrelated to my previous tech-heavy work life.
       | It's an expensive way to "start over", but it's worth it for the
       | near-guaranteed cushy outcomes.
        
       | VLM wrote:
       | You need to read the wikipedia article on the "Cursus honorum"
       | from the roman empire. Everything old is new again, not just in
       | computer science.
       | 
       | You step one foot off the path, and the pyramid means there's a
       | zillion people in line clamoring to take your place, your old
       | spot is already gone, already filled.
       | 
       | Its like asking how you become a pro football quarterback if
       | you're starting in your 30s. That's easy, you don't.
       | 
       | You CAN however, have an enjoyable and successful career and
       | happy life doing something else. Just not on the old path. Which
       | wasn't working for you anyway, so you're not losing much.
       | 
       | > I spent years running around like a headless chicken to satisfy
       | sales-type execs who had no interest in leveling me up.
       | 
       | I got bad news for you if you think hopping from a startup to a
       | megacorp will avoid that, LOL. Its kind of like travel, where you
       | eventually learn its the same everywhere and you can't run away
       | from yourself.
        
       | aeyes wrote:
       | My mom switched careers multiple times.
       | 
       | - Degree in Chemistry, led a production plant for a couple of
       | years.
       | 
       | - Left that job and went to law school, worked at a law firm for
       | 20 years until the boss retired.
       | 
       | - Then she studied to become an accountant and started working in
       | the family business.
       | 
       | I know many people with similar "career paths" often doing
       | something completely unrelated to what they did before. You only
       | have to get up every morning and start.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | Mid-30s is fine. Pay attention to all aspects of your health,
       | because it's super-important. Also, while you're in or working
       | towards "the best shape of my life", as they say, that might have
       | the bonus of another lifestyle/relatability point in common with
       | some of your younger health-focused new colleagues.
       | 
       | What kind of work do you want to do? Software? If you already
       | have some software experience, picking up a popular Web framework
       | is very doable, and you can grow from there.
       | 
       | Too discouraged to imagine anything you want to do? If you
       | weren't discouraged, what would you want to do, and how would you
       | start working towards that? Why not start that, and get out of
       | the discouragement trap?
       | 
       | Once you have some career traction going again, you might find
       | that your prior experience has a silver lining. For example, you
       | might see a pattern happening in a company, which you've
       | previously seen not work out well, and can help nudge the
       | company/person away from a pitfall.
        
       | yboris wrote:
       | I had BS in Math, MA in Education, 2 years of Ph.D. in
       | Educational Psychology, and I was a math teacher for about 5
       | years. Around 31 years old I became a "full stack web dev" and
       | have been happy ever since.
       | 
       | I _did_ have background in programming (various WordPress work,
       | some personal learning at PHP, minor projects like a 2D game for
       | myself). I discovered I was able to do it after my wife finished
       | a half-year full-stack bootcamp during which I kept helping  /
       | answering all her questions. So I realized I could do it too.
        
       | pksebben wrote:
       | Absolutely. I just did this myself (37, hired at first tech job
       | about a year and a half ago). I was a bartender for a decade. I
       | have a GED and went to college but didn't finish.
       | 
       | To answer your questions:
       | 
       | | Is there any hope for someone like me?
       | 
       | See above
       | 
       | | Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?
       | 
       | I can't speak for bigco. I work right now at a small company, but
       | I love it here. The focus is on the work. What's going to matter
       | more than anything when you start applying again is your git and
       | your grit. There are places out there where what they want is
       | someone who can learn, who cares about the work their doing, and
       | who's honest.
       | 
       | My interviewing strategy has been to be completely up-front about
       | what I lack. This means a lot of interviews end quickly - which
       | is a good thing! Once you're up to scratch on what you need to
       | know to get into working in tech _in the way you want to_ (like,
       | you 've built a thing or two of the type that you're applying to
       | work on), you'll want to find the right fit, and you must resist
       | the urge to upsell yourself on interviews. That way leads pain.
       | 
       | | Is there any reasonable path to starting over? / Where do I
       | even begin?
       | 
       | This is going to depend on what you want to do, and how much
       | runway you have to focus on teaching yourself to do it. For me,
       | coming out of bartending / no tech experience at all, it took 4
       | years. I got SUPER LUCKY that covid hit when it did - it forced
       | me to cloister and do nothing but learn for a year, which is what
       | made the difference. You can choose to do this on purpose. It's a
       | commitment and you have to make it a priority.
       | 
       | I would also recommend taking a look at the recurse center (1) -
       | they were instrumental for me, and in many ways still are. It's a
       | community that is good to be a part of - you will need help along
       | the way and this is one place to get it. Do a full batch if you
       | can.
       | 
       | Be extraordinarily wary of bootcamps. I've been told some are
       | good - but I almost spent 10k on what looked totally legit (it
       | was in the UC system) but on closer inspection was definitely not
       | (they refused to provide a syllabus or list of instructors before
       | I paid them half, turns out because they didn't actually know
       | either of those things at the time).
       | 
       | For god's sake, pick something to learn / get in to _that you
       | love doing_! This is tech, you can find someone to pay you to do
       | it and you 'll be better at it if you like what you do! Which
       | means better everything - pay, satisfaction, culture. Don't just
       | default to the one with the most jobs or the best pay.
       | 
       | Build stuff. Get your git packed with projects. Don't worry about
       | curating them - if you get an idea start working on it and get it
       | in there, it doesn't matter if you don't finish it. The point is
       | to always be building and always be learning and to have a git
       | history that reflects this.
       | 
       | Don't get stuck in a language, either. Play with rust and python
       | and go and lisp and anything else you can get your hands on. Make
       | programming a joy to _do_ , not just a way to get the job done.
       | Also, use an editor that makes the experience of programming fun
       | / enjoyable. I love emacs for this but that's a matter of
       | opinion.
       | 
       | Starting right now, make a monthly habit of checking the HN
       | whoishiring posts, they drop on the first every month. I've found
       | Kenny Kilton's whoishiring browser (2) to be really useful for
       | this. Just to get a sense for what is out there and what you
       | could be doing.
       | 
       | Stay the hell away from recruiters and places that have a
       | byzantine beaurocratic approach to hiring. Those places are for
       | folks that look good on paper, not the likes of us. You want your
       | first round interview to be with an engineer or CTO or someone
       | who's actively involved in running the ship - those folks can
       | make the decision to take a risk on people in your position, and
       | the other places will typically waste your time by filtering you
       | out with an automated resume reader.
       | 
       | Find community. Keep coming back here. Engage until you
       | understand. Ask dumb questions. Seek to understand.
       | 
       | I feel your pain. I know what it's like to feel like you missed
       | the bus and everything is fucked. Trust me when I say that it's
       | not. If you still have questions reply with them, I'll keep an
       | eye on this thread. Good luck and happy hacking.
       | 
       | 1 -https://www.recurse.com/
       | 
       | 2 - https://kennytilton.github.io/whoishiring/
        
       | rolenthedeep wrote:
       | I just went through something similar. As a result of my (then)
       | undiagnosed ADHD, I failed out of college three times, couldn't
       | hold down a decent job. Early on, I stumbled into a good gig as a
       | game programmer and did that off and on for a few years. Because
       | I didn't know then that I'm autistic, I got myself into some
       | situations and ended up self-sabotaging my career and wrecked my
       | entire life. Ruined my relationship with my boyfriend, along with
       | most of my friends and I lost everything. I moved to a new city
       | and started over.
       | 
       | I managed to figure my shit out (and get medicated) and found a
       | decent menial corporate job. Over the next 2-3 years I sent out
       | _hundreds_ of applications for boring enterprise programming
       | because programming is the only thing I 've been moderately
       | successful at.
       | 
       | Worked my way up to assistant manager at the corporate job and
       | immediately, deeply regretted it. Job applications increased in
       | desperation, but no interest from anyone that seemed legitimate.
       | 
       | There's no moral about perserverence here, I got stupid lucky. A
       | startup found my resume on Indeed and emailed me out of the blue.
       | I had just recently updated my resume to include every skill I
       | was even passingly familiar with, and they picked up on my
       | experience with electronics.
       | 
       | Now I am more or less a R&D engineer. I develop hardware and
       | firmware for current and new products, innovate new types of
       | hardware and generally get to dick around and explore whatever
       | field I like.
       | 
       | This kind of role has been the secret hope in my heart of hearts
       | since I was a kid. Something I'd always assumed was unattainable
       | and never let myself think about too much.
       | 
       | Needless to say, I never expected to get here, but I couldn't be
       | happier.
       | 
       | I don't really have any advice. I got here through sheer luck and
       | the ability to seem like I know _much_ more than I do. I
       | massively impressed during my interview and my varied skills
       | turned out to be precisely what the company needed at the time.
       | 
       | I padded my resume with every skill I thought I could confidently
       | bullshit my way through. Total hail Mary, but it worked. Dunno if
       | I'd recommend this strategy, but I was desperate
       | 
       | ETA: I got the new job just before my 30th birthday. Most of the
       | disaster was in my late 20's. I still feel like I wasted all of
       | my 20's and I don't know if I'll ever be okay with that. Just
       | have to move on
        
       | cehrlich wrote:
       | At age 31 I was was working as a part-time university lecturer in
       | a non-stem field plus constantly struggling to find any
       | additional freelance work, couldn't really see a realistic path
       | forward in that career. Had also just become a father, so being
       | broke felt even worse than before. I spent about 18 months
       | learning web dev (just free resources online), and successfully
       | made the career change. Required a lot of sacrifices in that time
       | period though as well as a bit of luck, and I don't think my path
       | is representative of the average person who tries this.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | zerohp wrote:
       | Yes there is hope.
       | 
       | I started college at 34, took 6 years to get two bachelors and a
       | masters. Now I am a hardware engineer at a big tech (FAANG)
       | company. I was an intern at 39 years old. That is not to say that
       | you should go back to school. I'm just using myself as an example
       | of someone that started their career over.
       | 
       | So to the first and fourth question the answer is yes. The others
       | can only be answered by you.
        
       | DustinBrett wrote:
       | I was in IT out of high school for 8 years, then gave it up to
       | travel for 4 years. Moving to Vancouver at 30 I started from the
       | bottom with aspirations of getting into software development. 6
       | years later and 3 foots in doors later, I got an offer at
       | Microsoft to start as the level right below Senior. I've been
       | there for over a year now. It's always possible to start over,
       | but it helps to start doing something you love.
        
       | Taylor_OD wrote:
       | I moved from tech recruiting to swe at ~29 so pretty close to 30.
       | Wife transitioned to a new career around the same age. I know a
       | ton of people who have done it between 25-40.
       | 
       | > No confidence. No motivation.
       | 
       | This is your biggest issue. You need to do some research and
       | figure out what you are interested in doing/learning about.
        
       | djaychela wrote:
       | You totally can. I've taken multiple right-turns over my 'career'
       | (I'm now 51). I think it's a myth to believe that you're stuck in
       | one path, and TBH I think most people now won't have the same job
       | for a long period (when I was at school, I knew plenty of people
       | who thought they'd have a job for life in a particular trade or
       | profession).
       | 
       | However, I've been self-employed since 1/1/2000. There's NO WAY I
       | would be employed by a company full time now unless they were
       | well off the beaten track. So I don't have job security, but that
       | has allowed me to be multiple different things over the last 20
       | years, and I'm enjoying the freedom and interest of what I do
       | (and I'm better at programming (Python) and music production than
       | I ever have been). I've bought and sold cars in the meantime, and
       | also written a couple of books and taught guitar.
       | 
       | I think the main thing is to play to your strengths, not the
       | strengths you think you should do, or that other people will
       | want.
       | 
       | And there is no such thing as wasted experience. If the chaotic
       | startup was as bad as you say, there will be plenty of stuff
       | you'll have learned from it - even if it is "never do this,
       | EVER!".
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | uptownfunk wrote:
       | You can do it, it all starts with what you want to do. Depending
       | on that there is absolutely a path to get there. All you are
       | limited by is your will and your effort. Assuming you are able
       | bodied and of average intelligence.
        
       | honkycat wrote:
       | Where to start? Pick a career. Set a goal. Make it SMART[0]. Put
       | effort into it every day. See results.
       | 
       | Education and training will help you get your foot in the door.
       | That is where I would start.
       | 
       | There was a MASSIVE wave of retirements the last few years. Lots
       | of openings.
       | 
       | 0: https://www.ucop.edu/local-human-
       | resources/_files/performanc...
        
       | anthomtb wrote:
       | (Disclaimer: USA-centric advise)
       | 
       | I advocate the formal education route here. Figure out the least
       | expensive path to getting yourself a technical undergrad degree.
       | Meaning a BS in Engineering or Computer Science, from an ABET-
       | accredited university.
       | 
       | For my BigTechCo, you are not going to get hired without a
       | technical degree. Any Engineering degree with some Computer
       | Science emphasis will work, or straight Computer Science. This
       | assumes a software engineering role. There are other technical
       | disciplines, of course, but you are likely to need a graduate
       | degree. An internship will be the best route to getting hired
       | full time.
       | 
       | Your age will not matter. One of the best engineers I worked
       | joined my company as a mid-30's intern after finishing his second
       | undergrad. His first undergrad was non-technical, second one was
       | technical. He also had a healthy GitHub and spent a lot of time
       | doing hobbyist programming before taking the plunge into formal
       | education.
       | 
       | If nothing else, it sounds like you have a lot of experience in
       | what _not_ to do. And for school, you should have a serious
       | advantage on your fellow students in terms of time management and
       | social skills.
        
         | dboreham wrote:
         | > technical undergrad degree
         | 
         | OP stated they were in grad school, implying they have some
         | degree. I'm not sure it would help to take another one now?
        
           | anthomtb wrote:
           | I think it would, assuming they want to work for an
           | established tech company. They do not say what field their
           | degree was in. If it is non-technical, even a hard science,
           | getting an additional undergrad in an Engineering field would
           | make them much more employable.
           | 
           | If they do have a technical degree then I agree that an
           | additional undergrad would not help. But I certainly think
           | returning to graduate school would help them get hired.
           | 
           | An aside, they OP is not really stating what they want to do.
           | I am interpolating from:
           | 
           | > Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?
           | 
           | That they want a role like my own (senior software engineer,
           | 15 YOE). But I am not certain.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | whoknew1122 wrote:
         | I didn't find it necessary to go back to school to get a
         | technical undergrad degree. I taught myself IT and got certs
         | instead. I was able to use those certs to break into the
         | industry, and eventually get hired by AWS.
        
           | anthomtb wrote:
           | A technical undergrad is definitely not the only path to
           | employability. But it is a well-traveled and straightforward
           | path.
        
         | jimbo99912 wrote:
         | ABET accreditation isn't really very important in Computer
         | Science, tons of good schools forego it or offer a separate
         | Software Engineering degree that has ABET accreditation.
         | 
         | CS isn't like Electrical Engineering where a university is
         | either ABET accredited or a diploma mill. ABET imposes a lot of
         | controversial requirements on CS programs that many top
         | programs don't agree with. It's a young field and the
         | curriculum hasn't been set in stone to the same extent it has
         | in the rest of the engineering school.
         | 
         | That being said, the school itself being properly accredited is
         | still important, and obviously going to a highly regarded CS
         | program is an advantage (although it doesn't need to be ABET,
         | for instance last I checked Stanford CS is not ABET
         | accredited), although it's not the end of the world if you
         | can't.
         | 
         | Edit: I just noticed you said ABET accredited university and
         | realized I may have misinterpreted what you meant. I would
         | agree that the university having an ABET accreditation in it's
         | Engineering programs in general is important, i.e. it's a bad
         | sign if the school you are going to for CS has a non ABET
         | accredited E.E. program (although those are few and far between
         | due to it being essentially mandatory and much less
         | controversial in more traditional engineering programs).
        
       | markbnj wrote:
       | Sure. I was 32 and freshly married, working as a field sales rep
       | for an optical inspection equipment oem and programming for fun
       | in my off time. Hated the day job, loved the hobby, and when the
       | oem was acquired I took the opportunity to bail out and look for
       | a full time software gig. It was a month or so before Christmas,
       | 1992, and my wife was pregnant with our first child, and when I
       | told her I wanted to leave the sales position and write software
       | for a living she said yes instantly. It was a very good snap
       | decision on her part :).
        
       | PhaedrusV wrote:
       | Go office space, and work construction. Maybe you'll get
       | motivated to do something less menial, and who knows, maybe
       | you'll like it.
        
       | entrepy123 wrote:
       | I haven't done this, but I'm thinking about doing it, being
       | mid-30s and wanting to restart career. While I've had meaningful
       | bursts of career, where it lead was entirely hollow and I want
       | pretty much none of it.
       | 
       | (I also feel like I've done a shitton of stuff at times, with not
       | much marketable to show for it. Some grounded but pie in skyish,
       | some in tech but really just knowing how to use a computer really
       | well and not so much deep programming knowledge.)
       | 
       | IMO now (2023+) is a fantastic time to re-start. There's a lot of
       | change and a lot of opportunity. Maybe there has never been a
       | better time to start new.
       | 
       | Look at everything that is broken, that everyone (or at least
       | many--maybe half) know is broken (at least subconsciously).
       | 
       | I think maybe going out there and KEEPING AT MAKING/DOING
       | SOMETHING PUBLICLY no matter how small, to add value (solve real
       | problems) in one or more of the broken spaces, has got to turn
       | into being profitable (trade value for value, put a price on a
       | thing).
       | 
       | These are my random thoughts. I actually think I pretty much know
       | what to do, and just need the courage/motivation to do it. So
       | maybe motivation is a thing to look at, too.
       | 
       | This is high level. I could probably make a list of the broken
       | areas, and so could you probably. I think if one gets started on
       | solving them, there are plenty of people to hire and who would
       | find the work meaningful and to grow. And plenty who know the
       | fixes are needed, and not enough people making and providing the
       | fixes.
       | 
       | There are also more obvious/traditional ways to restart, I guess.
       | The same applies; a lot of things are new or newly matured enough
       | to be really obvious/useful, so starting now as an experienced
       | person (even not in the domain) in something different will have
       | its advantages.
       | 
       | I doubt this helps much, but hang in there and believe in
       | yourself. Sounds silly, I know. I think we can be realistic
       | optimists here.
       | 
       | [Addendum: What I really want at present though is to find
       | something that just needs me to be a really good computer user,
       | and can help someone's business with that, to make ends meet,
       | while I try to start the loftier stuff on the side. That has to
       | be valuable, right? Seriously, IME most people cannot do that,
       | and it's like it almost does not even matter. I do not want to
       | learn all the programming things, but I'm still extremely
       | proficient other than I guess what people actually need. Open to
       | input along these lines. Thanks for asking this question. I might
       | sound stupid, if so please just ignore.]
       | 
       | </.02>
        
       | Dudelander wrote:
       | I was stuck in a dead end job in my late 20s, did the 2 years in
       | a community college and 2 years in a "real" college thing, and
       | began a career as a computer programmer when I was 34. It's
       | actually easier to do in your 30s because you're more mature.
       | 
       | A good friend of mine left his career as an auto mechanic and
       | became a CPA in his mid 40s. He had no trouble finding work.
       | 
       | You can get federal student loans as a second degree student, and
       | some programs are exclusively offered to students with an
       | existing degree (Accelerated Nursing for example).
       | 
       | You are younger than you think.
        
       | indymike wrote:
       | -Is there any hope for someone like me?
       | 
       | Yes. Lots. Best job market ever (well, maybe slightly worse than
       | last year, but still virtually best ever).
       | 
       | -Is there any reasonable path to starting over?
       | 
       | Find what you love, learn it, and start do.
       | 
       | Degree requirements are out the window for many jobs. Companies
       | can't find enough people.
       | 
       | -Where do I even begin?
       | 
       | It's hard to start if you don't know what the end is. Figure out
       | what you want to be when you grow up (I'm 50 and still haven't
       | grown up).
       | 
       | -Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?
       | 
       | Yes. Some of the best people we have hired at my company changed
       | careers in their late 20s and 30s.
        
       | emrah wrote:
       | I have. I studied EE, did that for a little shy of a decade, but
       | didn't like the work culture in general. I wanted to do research
       | but not get a PhD, so I got hired at a research lab at a
       | university. After several years, I was done with that too and
       | switched to SWE.
       | 
       | It's certainly doable especially if you go into adjacent fields.
        
       | throw1234651234 wrote:
       | Just don't pivot into the wrong field
        
       | rand846633 wrote:
       | Went from devops/SRE to pentest/code auditing in my 30s.
       | 
       | Best decision ever.
       | 
       | Took about a thousand hours of refreshing my offensive hacking
       | skills. Maybe 2.5 years of intense work. This and two
       | intermediate security jobs until I landed the dream job in the
       | dream team.
       | 
       | There is hope for you. The effort alone is rewarding. If I had
       | not reached anything with my struggle, it still would have been
       | worth it.
        
       | krisroadruck wrote:
       | I switched from network administration to SEO around 30ish. Took
       | a couple years to get my footing but honestly it wasn't much
       | different than starting career path first time around. A few
       | years of suck, followed by plenty of years reaping rewards of
       | early efforts.
        
       | goolz wrote:
       | Absolutely! One of the smartest people I know did, and works for
       | Google now and even landed a YC interview. Not only is it
       | possible but it could end up being a boon. Best of luck.
        
       | misterjensen wrote:
       | -Is there any hope for someone like me?
       | 
       | Yes. I reset my career 3 times between 30 and 40 and I did
       | progressively better each time.
       | 
       | -Is there any reasonable path to starting over?
       | 
       | No. Jump into it. Be unreasonable. Fail fast. Accept lower
       | seniority positions if it gets you in the area you want to work
       | in.
       | 
       | -Where do I even begin?
       | 
       | LinkedIn Jobs, trade shows, old friends and former coworkers. Hit
       | up on LinkedIn founders and upper management of the companies you
       | want to work with, you would be surprised how many have answered
       | me back over the years.
       | 
       | -Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?
       | 
       | We live in credentials bubble where everyone has a piece of paper
       | saying they are a senior specialist on yadda-yadda, but finding
       | someone who is lean and mean, hungry and means it, who would be
       | willing to work 12 hours a day to bridge the gap and overtake the
       | rest of the team? That's really hard.
        
       | PUSH_AX wrote:
       | I didn't even finish education until 30s.
       | 
       | You need two things, a focus, and a real hunger to do the thing
       | you focus on. The time for half measures is probably over. But
       | you have time to dive head first into something.
        
       | itsoktocry wrote:
       | > _Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?_
       | 
       | There is near infinite demand for tech skills. Maybe you can't go
       | work for Google (most of us can't), but there are 1000x as many
       | "non-tech" businesses, big and small, that need tech skills.
        
       | alar44 wrote:
       | Yes. I was a musician until 30. Kept up with tech and always had
       | projects going. Worked my way up the ladder from contract help
       | desk to Director of IT in 10 years. I just kept applying for help
       | desk jobs until I got one and absorbed everything I could.
        
       | shawndrost wrote:
       | I cofounded Hack Reactor, the coding bootcamp. (I'm no longer
       | involved.) Your story is extremely typical, it's very normal to
       | successfully do what you want to do, and you have way more
       | marketable skills than you think. I recommend doing a bootcamp if
       | you don't know what else to do; do a sales or recruiting bootcamp
       | if you don't like code.
        
       | suprjami wrote:
       | Whenever anyone in their 25s or 30s or whatever, I'm always
       | reminded of a blog about a guy's grandpa who retired then pivoted
       | to consulting on construction projects, and ended up being
       | responsible for some of the biggest bridges built in China. He
       | quoted his grandpa as saying "My career didn't really pick up
       | until my 60s" or something like that.
       | 
       | So don't worry, you've got plenty of time.
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | > No motivation
       | 
       | You typed all this, so clearly you show some motivation.
        
       | aspergsadd wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | w10-1 wrote:
       | Your primary concerns seem to be emotional - any hope, any path,
       | where to begin, ever consider. Others have responded with
       | encouragement, but as you know, encouragement does not create
       | courage like success does. The solution there, I think, is to
       | realize (moment to moment) that your feelings are a normal
       | response to floundering: loss of energy and perspective. They are
       | not real.
       | 
       | One aspect of your questions is essential: leverage, from
       | networks and experiences
       | 
       | You're now recognizing that your diligence and skill did not add
       | up to connections or milestones that could lead you to other
       | opportunities.
       | 
       | That leads you to want help. Sure, help helps, but wanting help
       | doesn't. Getting help might. Helping yourself? definitely helps.
       | But realize that with your history, people who can give help are
       | not inclined to help you. That includes partners, admissions and
       | job evaluators, etc.
       | 
       | The solution is to work on something you can control, and use
       | success in that to engage in more collaboration, and build from
       | there.
       | 
       | Just don't forget the most important thing is to work on the
       | right thing. Don't polish any turds, and don't hesitate to leave
       | behind a bad investment.
        
       | Bud wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | surprisetalk wrote:
       | In directionless periods of my life, talking to the right person
       | for 20-30 minutes was sometimes what I really needed.
       | 
       | For you, or anybody that feels like this, schedule a phone call
       | with me!
       | 
       | I don't have all the answers, but I love chatting with strangers
       | about setting goals and learning skills :)
       | 
       | https://calendly.com/taylor-town/30min
        
       | NikolaNovak wrote:
       | My best friend was thoroughly unhappy in a research gig. So she
       | took out a massive loan and went to med school. It was a
       | _STRESSFUL_ period for her and her family. She 's out now and
       | makes 10 times her previous money and is a fair bit happier at
       | her job.
       | 
       | My wife was a store manager, wanted to slow down for family, took
       | hr courses and is now an hr manager.
       | 
       | So there are success stories in fairly radical career changes.
       | 
       | On the other hand it sounds like you want to stay in the field,
       | just get some traction? I work for a big tech technically in
       | technology, and would hire "someone like you" depending largely
       | on other qualifications and aspects,especially on something
       | adjacent - I. E. (spit balling) if you have a decade of average
       | or below average technical experience, you might make an above
       | average incident manager, release manager, service delivery
       | manager, etc - depending on other skills and circumstances. If
       | you are willing, diligent, detail oriented, have good comm
       | skills, have good troubleshooting skills, or any combo of above,
       | there are jobs with upward mobility (not saying it's trivial
       | finding them).
        
       | thrownaway561 wrote:
       | you have to understand that age is becoming not a thing nowadays.
       | almost all tech and office jobs are moving to remote so no one
       | cares about how old you are as long as you can do the work.
       | 
       | that being said. i started over at 45 with a consulting company
       | and i'm doing VERY well with it. i'm now 47 and can tell you that
       | i love my job and wouldn't trade it for the world.
        
       | danesparza wrote:
       | Yes. My wife became a nurse in her mid-40's. She had to go back
       | to college to make sure her prerequisites were completed, then
       | she had to apply to, get in, and complete nursing school. She
       | discovered there were all sorts of scholarships that she
       | qualified for that greatly reduced the financial burden.
       | 
       | She's an awesome nurse.
       | 
       | You can do this.
        
       | jonnycomputer wrote:
       | Yes. Anthropology/archeology/teaching to software development and
       | data analysis in research lab.
        
       | jvanderbot wrote:
       | Yep -- I graduated grad school at 34 and got a series of amazing
       | jobs with incredible people over the last 8 years. I was a
       | complete pile of poop until 25, and slowly crawled out of my bad
       | habits from 25-30, caught some ambition at 30, managed to turn it
       | into an advanced degree by 34. Hell, I dropped out of high school
       | and, 5 years later, still managed to fail my first year of
       | undergrad.
       | 
       | In hindsight, it was a natural "1% better" progression. I stopped
       | hanging out with bad folks, got out of a junk relationship, got
       | into a _good_ relationship with someone who encouraged me and was
       | more conscientious than I was, started exercising, meditating,
       | studying, taking measured risks, practicing, and keeping track of
       | my accomplishments so I had good talking points when pushing into
       | a new opportunity. I also have to acknowledge the  "home court
       | advantage", because I stuck near my family and friends until I
       | moved to the west coast for my first big job after graduation.
       | 
       | Believe me, I still feel like I wasted the years from age 16 to
       | age 25, but I no longer feel like I've wasted my _entire life_.
        
         | owlglass wrote:
         | Lived the same "pile of poop" lifestyle 20-23, slowly crawling
         | out of it with many of the same techniques you mention. I'm
         | glad to see things have looked up for you.
        
         | icebergonfire wrote:
         | Adding to the polite pile of plus ones, I wasted my 20s in
         | directionless ways. I spent 28-30 ramping up into tech and
         | managed to kickstart my career began two months before I turned
         | 30.
         | 
         | > I still feel like I wasted the years from age 16 to age 25,
         | but I no longer feel like I've wasted my entire life
         | 
         | I shall steal this turn of phrase, can relate so much.
         | 
         | To the fine OP: success is not guaranteed but I've met so many
         | people that have pivoted their entire careers and lives later
         | than you'd think. If you have the drive and privilege to give
         | it a real try, you have a chance to join the ranks.
         | 
         | If you don't... you won't.
        
         | jxramos wrote:
         | I like that age range bounded failure recognition. I can
         | relate, I call them the wasted years of my life.
        
           | dwmbt wrote:
           | even jesus had his lost years.
        
         | sibeliuss wrote:
         | I can very much relate to this! Whole 20's were a blur with
         | lots of bad habits. Life definitely began ~30-32, and also met
         | someone very supportive.
         | 
         | The 30's are very young!
        
         | throwaway9191aa wrote:
         | More plus one :) The secret is, once all us wayward youths find
         | each other, we are more interesting than the typical advanced
         | high school => ivy league => enterprise developer. I work with
         | so many people who have never had a job outside of software
         | development. It is all about work, except for that time they
         | brewed their own beer for a couple months.
         | 
         | Kinda judgemental I know. Just know that you should never be
         | afraid to re-invent yourself. There are more of us out there!
         | Find us!
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | As an aside, the traditional term for being a pile of poop is
         | "living a dissipated life".
        
       | shoenix wrote:
       | I got out of the military and started my career in IT at 30. I
       | went from fixing fighter jets to being a sys/net admin. It helps
       | I always had a passion for networking and technology.
        
       | lycopodiopsida wrote:
       | I finished my PhD at 34 in biology and switched to a big software
       | company as a consultant. You can do whatever you want as long as
       | you are not dead, you still have decades of work life before you.
       | And what of a life goal is an impressive resume or a network
       | anyway?
        
       | revskill wrote:
       | You need to hire a mentor to guide you in correct way to improve
       | yourself in correct direction.
        
         | confoundcofound wrote:
         | Where do I find one?
        
           | revskill wrote:
           | Don't worry much about ages. You can always start whenever
           | you want, but of course, the sooner, the better.
           | 
           | You can find some good programming Discord groups for
           | programmers and join to discuss there.
           | 
           | But be cautious with your goal: Money first, or Long term
           | career path to be a good software engineer. There's
           | difference between the two based on your choices.
        
         | throwaway092345 wrote:
         | Strange suggestion. Have never heard of "mentors for hire".
        
       | phlipski wrote:
       | It's never too late to start over. The key is to just START! Find
       | something you're interested in and dig in and work towards it
       | every day!
        
       | guestbest wrote:
       | I worked with 3 DBA's that took a semester community college
       | course in database administrator paid for certification in Oracle
       | and started working as full time DBA's shorty thereafter. They
       | all were over 40 when they started as DBA's and one had a
       | background as a Disney animator
        
       | maCDzP wrote:
       | You still have at minimum 30 years of work in you. So I would say
       | mid thirties is still young. I've read it takes around 10 years
       | to become an expert in a field, so you could become expert in
       | three different fields.
        
       | schwartzworld wrote:
       | I worked in food service for like 10 years, followed by 7 years
       | as a licensed massage therapist. During my time as an MT, I broke
       | a metatarsal, and while I was able to work through the recovery,
       | it wasn't lost on me that working with your body (vs your brain)
       | has some downsides. A slightly different injury would have meant
       | months of not working. I knew I needed to get into a field where
       | I could work through a more serious injury.
       | 
       | The nature of the work meant that I often had 1-2 hours breaks in
       | my schedule. Sometimes a slot wouldn't get booked, or someone
       | would cancel. So I started learning to code, first Ruby on Rails
       | then JavaScript. I took a couple of freelance clients, but didn't
       | really start looking for work until I was 35. By then I'd been
       | hacking on my own for almost 4 years.
       | 
       | Now I'm 40 and my title is Principal JavaScript Engineer. It's
       | only really been like 5.5 years of working full-time in tech, but
       | I love what I do and I'm damned good at it. I'm so grateful this
       | worked out, because I _did_ end up having that hypothetical worse
       | injury in 2021. Between that and the COVID pandemic, if I had
       | stayed in massage or (worse) food service, I would have been
       | seriously screwed.
       | 
       | > Is there any hope for someone like me?
       | 
       | Yes
       | 
       | > Is there any reasonable path to starting over?
       | 
       | Yes
       | 
       | > Where do I even begin
       | 
       | Pick a starting point. I can only speak for the software world,
       | but the fundamental principals are generally the same regardless
       | of your domain or tech choices. Pick a popular language and just
       | start learning to build. Keep building and keep learning until
       | you are able to recognize that you've reached a level of basic
       | competency.
       | 
       | > Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?
       | 
       | I mistakenly assumed that being self-taught would make it harder
       | to sell myself, but the opposite has been true. I'm not saying
       | getting that first job wasn't challenging, but in general, I
       | think my story makes me an attractive hire. Software development
       | typically involves a lot of autodidactic learning, so someone who
       | taught themselves is doubly prepared.
       | 
       | The first job is hard to get, but if you aren't picky and you try
       | hard, you'll get it eventually. It's worth it. Once you're in,
       | you're in.
        
       | netman21 wrote:
       | I was 33 when I left a successful automotive engineering career
       | to start an ISP. It was a steep learning curve but in 12 months I
       | learned a lot about networking. Then I went into network
       | security. Have not looked back in the last 25 years.
        
       | gensym wrote:
       | I know lots of people who have started their careers over in
       | their 30s. My mom, for instance, went to school to become a
       | respiratory therapist. My dad was in his 30s when he learned to
       | be a tool and die maker. Both of them needed formal training.
       | 
       | I've hired people who have switched careers by going to dev
       | bootcamps, but their situation was different because they hadn't
       | had a period of downtime. In general, though, I love hiring
       | career switchers. They've demonstrated the ability to learn and
       | adapt rather than just let momentum carry them on.
       | 
       | As someone who hires software engineers, here's my perspective on
       | this question:
       | 
       | > -Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?
       | 
       | Based on your description right now, I probably wouldn't hire
       | you. You sound like you are directionless. I love mentoring new
       | engineers and cultivating their growth, but I need them to have
       | the focus and the drive to do that growth, and the description
       | you have here doesn't paint a picture of someone who would likely
       | be successful at that.
       | 
       | However, if I were to see the resume of someone who spent their
       | early 30s directionless and then figured out what they wanted to
       | do and took the serious steps to do that with a record of setting
       | ambitious but reasonable goals for themselves and hitting them,
       | along with developing the beginning of the technical skills
       | needed for the role, I'd be really excited to consider them.
       | 
       | I suggest you hire a career coach to explore your options; you're
       | younger than you think. I wish you the best in figuring this out.
        
         | imjqz wrote:
         | > but I need them to have the focus and the drive to do that
         | growth
         | 
         | This is really important. I just spent the last couple of
         | months helping some people transition to the tech industry, and
         | I'm seriously reconsidering whether I want to continue. It's
         | demotivating when people don't have the drive to take
         | initiative or follow through when you're volunteering your time
         | to help them.
         | 
         | So OP, there's definitely people out there willing to give you
         | a chance, but you need to show concrete proof that you are
         | worth considering. Like the parent comment said, a record of
         | goal-setting and progress would really help, maybe in the form
         | of non-trivial personal projects or contributions to open
         | source projects.
         | 
         | As far as the motivation aspect, talking to a therapist or
         | career coach is a great idea. It's possible that your lack of
         | motivation is not inherent, but rather a result of
         | disillusionment from the bad experiences you've had. You
         | created this post, so while not a huge step, it's a sign that
         | you want to change. Build on that.
        
           | soiler wrote:
           | I've had a similar experience. I was really excited to tutor
           | at my bootcamp after graduating, but after enough people no-
           | showed for tutoring, or turned up with blank homework
           | assignments and making no effort to look things up, I just
           | stopped. It was a waste of my time - I wasn't doing it for
           | the pay, I was doing it for the experience and the
           | connections.
           | 
           | I'd love to go back with the confidence to be more selective
           | about who I take on, but I'm not sure if there's a structure
           | for that. And it's okay if someone is really struggling to
           | understand code, but I'm not interested in working with
           | someone who is struggling to understand _effort_. That 's
           | something they should develop before starting to learn
           | programming.
        
           | germinalphrase wrote:
           | Were you helping people specifically transition into
           | technical/engineering roles?
        
             | imjqz wrote:
             | Yup, teaching people how to code with the goal of
             | eventually getting a technical role.
        
               | legerdemain wrote:
               | Where did you end up placing them? How did that go?
        
         | jollofricepeas wrote:
         | Nice response!
         | 
         | I agree. As someone who has also done a great deal of hiring,
         | having sincere interest is just so important in the big, wide
         | world of software engineering.
         | 
         | So now I tell people this...
         | 
         | 1. Live for yourself not your mom or dad or societal
         | expectations.
         | 
         | 2. Provided you don't have any responsibilities besides
         | yourself, do whatever you want for a profession.
         | 
         | 3. It's completely OK to have a job that you can stand and hang
         | out with friends. If you're not motivated by money or the work
         | itself that's perfectly OK (See #1)
         | 
         | 4. Don't become a developer because someone said you could make
         | a bunch of money. Do it because you love building things. (See
         | #1)
         | 
         | 5. If you don't know what to do then do everything and you'll
         | find out what you don't like eventually. (See #1)
         | 
         | 6. Life is not a race. Literally none of it matters except how
         | you treat yourself and others. It's your life. You're allowed
         | to change your mind but be kind to those who love you and take
         | care of your dependents. (See #2)
        
         | notesinthefield wrote:
         | Where do people actually find career coaches that arent a sham?
        
         | not_a_shill wrote:
         | >figured out what they wanted to do and took the serious steps
         | to do that with a record of setting ambitious but reasonable
         | goals for themselves and hitting them
         | 
         | What would this actually look like to you on a resume?
        
           | rvba wrote:
           | Perhaps something like: personal blog where you try to make X
           | small apps per year. Or personal project where you write
           | something on your own. Perhaps getting some certificate,
           | everyone knows they arent very useful, so maybe get a cheap
           | one (scrum.org?).
           | 
           | So if you have a candidate, who was a baker for their whole
           | life, but in last year: started a blog where they do some
           | coding projec(s), say "implementing tetris in language X" and
           | then making weekly updates to that pet project, like adding
           | score, adding AI. At the same time that candidate got some
           | certificate in last year (everyone knows most of those certs
           | are a scam).
           | 
           | To be honest when you are a junior, probably the hardest step
           | is to get that first job; perhaps you can go to some meetups
           | and plainly say there that you are a junior and search for a
           | job.
        
           | gensym wrote:
           | > What would this actually look like to you on a resume?
           | 
           | That's a great question, and I wish I had a great answer. I
           | think this is the sort of thing where a cover letter could be
           | useful. Personally, when I'm reviewing resumes, I usually get
           | a bit of background context from our recruiting department to
           | go along with it.
           | 
           | When evaluating candidates, I'm generally looking for things
           | that often don't line up with a line item on a resume but can
           | sometimes be inferred from the collection of items - I'm
           | looking for curiosity, a drive for improvement, a willingness
           | to take risks, etc. So if I saw someone whose resume
           | indicated a directionless period but then also had items that
           | showed a change in trajectory (education, relevant
           | volunteering, relevant projects, etc), it would cause me to
           | take notice.
           | 
           | I hire for a small company, but we have high standards, so a
           | lot of hiring involves finding high-performing folks who
           | might be overlooked by FAANGs. Someone who doesn't have
           | obviously great job experience but who does have signs that
           | they've taken initiative and followed through to become an
           | excellent engineer is exactly the sort of person that I work
           | with our recruiting team to find.
        
       | slavoingilizov wrote:
       | If you look at this moment 10 years from now, you'd be surprised
       | how early it is for you.
       | 
       | Eric Yuan founded Zoom at the age of 41.
       | 
       | David Baszucki was 41 years old when he created Roblox with
       | cofounder Erik Cassel, who was 36 at the time.
       | 
       | Stan Lee created his first hit comic, "The Fantastic Four," just
       | shy of his 39th birthday, in 1961.
       | 
       | Samuel L. Jackson has been a Hollywood staple for years now, but
       | he'd had only bit parts before landing an award-winning role at
       | age 43 in Spike Lee's film "Jungle Fever" in 1991.
       | 
       | I don't know how many of these examples you need, but all I can
       | say is you can ignore the past. Do what you need to do, have some
       | faith and just look forward.
        
         | trynewideas wrote:
         | These are big-break stories, not career-switching stories.
         | 
         | Yuan had been working on online teleconferencing since 1997 and
         | was managing a team of 800 at Cisco when he left 13 years
         | later. He didn't career-switch, he doubled down on his career.
         | 
         | Baszucki graduated from Stanford in computer science in 1985
         | and had been working on physics simulation software since the
         | late 80s, with Cassel. He sold that simulation startup in 1998
         | for $20 million. Roblox didn't ship for two years and didn't
         | take off for almost 10 years, by which point Cassel was dead of
         | cancer.
         | 
         | Lee worked in comics at the same company since he was 17 in
         | 1939, had his first writing credit on a Captain America book
         | two years later, and was named interim editor the same year and
         | never left the role. He was considering switching careers _out_
         | of comics right before writing the Fantastic Four, but he
         | started working in pulp and comic fiction as a teenager and
         | never left.
         | 
         | Samuel L. Jackson graduated from Morehouse in drama and founded
         | a theater in 1972 at 24 years old, and had been a professional
         | stage actor since he was 32; his first feature film role was in
         | the same year. Morgan Freeman was his mentor. "Jungle Fever"
         | was his fourth Spike Lee film; his performance as a crack
         | cocaine addict came after exiting rehab when his heroin
         | addiction turned into a coke addiction.
        
         | Lio wrote:
         | I always like the example of Ray Kroc, who founded McDonalds at
         | the age of 64.
         | 
         | Well I guess technically he licenced the idea from the McDonald
         | brothers single restaurant but he founded what we think of as
         | McDonalds.
         | 
         | Whatever you think of their "food" it's still a great example
         | of an older founder.
        
         | codegeek wrote:
         | Ray Croc, Colonel Sanders and others as well.
        
       | All4All wrote:
       | > Is there any hope for someone like me?
       | 
       | YES! There is always "hope" for nearly everything and everyone.
       | The first step is to actually try to define what type of "hope"
       | that you're looking for. Set goals, aspiration, and a clear
       | vision of what you want so that you have an attainable mark. It's
       | okay if this changes over time, but to light that fire you have
       | to have something to strive for, even if it feels unobtainable at
       | the moment.
       | 
       | > Is there a reasonable path to starting over?
       | 
       | Well, what do you define as "reasonable"? Everyone's path is
       | different, and if you're comparing yourself to peers who have
       | never veered off the straight and narrow path then you own path
       | might seem unreasonable to you. Your path might make you the 30
       | year old intern or apprentice, and that's okay! Success and
       | satisfaction doesn't always come from taking the "reasonable"
       | path.
       | 
       | > Where do I even begin?
       | 
       | For lack of a better vocabulary, you need to find some way to
       | "spark the fire." I was in a similar position to you. I spent
       | years dragging out a degree that I wasn't passionate about, felt
       | less than my peers who had moved onto successful and fulfilling
       | careers, and felt down on my luck. After a series of poor
       | decisions I finally found my spark while sitting in the dirt
       | after a long day of landscaping. No car, no ride home, could
       | barely pay the bills, I finally realizing exactly where my life
       | was headed and I knew I needed to change direction. I spent weeks
       | researching jobs that I wanted to aspire to but that I knew were
       | unattainable at the moment. But I bit the bullet, applied to
       | schools, completed a degree related to the roles I was passionate
       | about, and have gone on to work in roles that I couldn't have
       | even fathomed just a few years prior. So for me, it was the
       | realization that life is short and what I contribute to it is up
       | to my that really sparked my fire, but you have to find some way
       | to get out of the mindset that's dragging you down. It's not
       | easy, and you will face significant challenges on whatever path
       | you take, but find that spark and commit to your goals.
       | 
       | > Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?
       | 
       | Someone like you now, lacking passion, down on your luck, self-
       | loathing, and without a direction? No. But you won't be
       | presenting who you are now to these employers. It's your life-you
       | can be whoever you want to be! As someone who comes from a less
       | than favorable background, the imposter syndrome is always
       | knocking at the door in my head. At the end of the day, you are
       | who you choose to be, so choose to be the person that those tech
       | co's will hire if that's what you desire.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | filipfilm wrote:
       | In a word yes. I worked in the film industry for 20 years from
       | 20-40. The hours were killing me. My wife and I moved from
       | Vancouver to Barcelona. I got a crap job at a call center. The
       | company had courses in excel available. I took those. I then
       | applied internally for a business analyst position. After getting
       | that I learned SQL and JavaScript from LinkedIn learning and
       | YouTube. I applied for a Security Analyst position at a different
       | company. Got the gig and have since learned python and am working
       | as a SOC analyst. I 44 now. Never had any higher education for
       | the film gig nor the analyst jobs. I went to school for audio
       | recording and have always had a way with computers.
        
       | SillyUsername wrote:
       | Do some open source work in your part time this will
       | 
       | - Improve your skills.
       | 
       | - Teach you to work on a dev team (assuming you join another
       | project rather than start your own).
       | 
       | - Stand out against other candidates on your CV (open source is
       | like the sleeper car of qualifications).
       | 
       | - Provide concrete examples of your work to new employers (many
       | _backend_ candidates don't give examples of their work).
       | 
       | - Provide a talking point to help deflect or defend against areas
       | where you have lack of experience.
        
       | waffletower wrote:
       | Definitely, I was a college professor through my mid-30s. I spent
       | 3 years as a stay at home father, and then built an iOS app
       | startup. The startup wasn't quite financially sustaining, but I
       | bootstrapped my iOS app work to become a professional software
       | engineer just as I was reaching 40. I developed in the Apple
       | ecosystem for about 5 years and then migrated to cloud services.
       | I am now a data engineer and very happy and fortunate to work for
       | an enthusiastically Clojure-friendly company.
        
       | marcusverus wrote:
       | I didn't start over at 30, but I did start my first career around
       | then!
       | 
       | Our stories sound familiar. I dropped out of grad school,
       | delivered pizzas, dropped out of law school, worked a menial job
       | for awhile. Before I knew it I was approaching 30 and I could
       | barely pay my bills.
       | 
       | If you've got no idea where to start, consider taking a job as a
       | recruiter. I doubt you're interested in that as a career path,
       | but in that role you'll gain a HUGE amount of insight as to how
       | the whole hiring process actually works, as well as a ton of
       | information about what jobs are out there, what the day-to-day
       | looks like for someone with a given job title, and what your
       | resume would need to look like to get that job.
       | 
       | That's the path I took, anyway. I recruited for a year, plotted
       | out a career path, and five years and three (progressively
       | better) jobs later I had the exact job title that I'd set out
       | for. Now I'm on to the next one :)
       | 
       | Getting a recruiting job should be pretty easy. Just make a list
       | of all of the third party recruiting shops in your area and hound
       | the absolute hell out of the hiring managers. Most recruiting
       | managers I've met are "Always Be Closing" types who love high
       | energy and tenacity. Call them once a week and pitch yourself. If
       | you find one who says they're hiring, be friendly but don't take
       | no for an answer. Tell them they're making a mistake. Tell them
       | to give you a chance. Push through "no" until they hang up on
       | you. One will take this as a sign that they can't live without
       | you.
       | 
       | Good luck!
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | You were already in grad school? Seems like a great time to go
       | back! Now that you have work experience the grad program will be
       | more meaningful, and after you finish, you will have a whole new
       | set of jobs open to you.
        
       | 9erdelta wrote:
       | I did mechanical engineering undergrad, then started and almost
       | finished mechanical engineering grad school but dropped out and
       | got a job. Then I started studying programming at night, then co-
       | founded a startup with some friends, and quit my mech eng job.
       | After the startup flamed out, I went to another startup.
       | Throughout the whole time of startups, I continued studying
       | programming and especially started dialing in on computer
       | graphics. Now I'm a graphics dev at Unity. This whole switch from
       | mech eng to graphics was all in my 30s, and has taken about 9
       | years, I'll turn 40 in 2024. It's not easy, and there are a lot
       | of challenges. For example I'm basically a junior graphics
       | programmer as I enter my 40s--which sucks. But when I think about
       | it, there's basically nothing else I'd rather be doing, so that's
       | cool.
       | 
       | The general thing I've learned is: there are no short paths, only
       | long paths. Figure out what you want and start the long path to
       | get there, because there aren't short cuts. How to figure out
       | what you want? Well that's a long path too.
        
       | arcturus17 wrote:
       | I learned to code (properly) at around 29, got a Software
       | Engineering degree at 32. I'm 36 now, and I run a solo consulting
       | business. It's a business in the sense that I serve some really
       | large customers (up to Fortune 500), hire people per project,
       | have a sales pipeline and other structures built, but it's just
       | me.
       | 
       | If I've learned one lesson throughout these years, it's that the
       | skills that truly buy your freedom are persuasion and sales. Your
       | technical skill or the product you sell are somewhat relevant
       | (there needs to be good demand/supply dynamics, etc.) but
       | secondary.
       | 
       | I am a technologist at heart and have thousands upon thousands of
       | hours of learning ahead of me but if I had to pick one skill
       | essential for my survival, it would be sales.
       | 
       | Selling is human, universal, and potentially lucrative. There's a
       | lot of potential for turning into a fucking weasel, but one can
       | simply avoid that by not being a fucking weasel.
       | 
       | You saw terrible sales-type executives, it doesn't need to be
       | like that. You can choose to pick a humanist stance towards it;
       | at its heart it's about learning about people's deepest problems
       | and finding solutions for them. You can find good people, good
       | teams and good products or services to sell, even if they're
       | modest to begin with, and build from there. Yes it's hard to find
       | those conditions, but nothing is easy in life - a lot of
       | technology, for example, is an absolute tire-fire.
       | 
       | If none of this jibes with you, maybe project management could
       | also work. Reframe _all_ your experience as  "project
       | management", find a domain that you find palatable and is
       | somewhat accessible. Get a PMP certification. Congrats, you're
       | now officially a project manager. It sounds bad because of how
       | easy it can be to intrude the profession (and I'm being
       | particularly facetious about it), and some PMs get a terrible rep
       | because they truly are terrible, but _precisely_ this is a
       | possible aspect of differentiation for you: you will take your
       | job seriously and display the utmost professionalism. You will be
       | the total opposite of a terrible project manager. Your earning
       | potential will not be as high as in sales, but in some domains,
       | six figure salaries are feasible, and you could build a long term
       | career with a progression for the thirty plus working years you
       | have ahead of you.
       | 
       | These are just a couple ideas... Maybe others in the thread are
       | better suited for you. The only thing I'm absolutely certain of
       | is of your ability to turn things around. You're much younger and
       | capable of a quick turnaround at your age (and later, but start
       | now!) than you seem to realize.
        
       | eddsh1994 wrote:
       | I'm on a FB group for people interested in flying planes and saw
       | a ~45 year old stay-at-home mother who went through a divorce
       | train and become a pilot for a major airline. I know a ~60 year
       | old who just got his blue belt in BJJ having started two years
       | ago. It's never too late :)
        
       | RagnarD wrote:
       | Not merely careers, but entire large companies have been founded
       | from scratch by individuals over age 50. See:
       | https://www.businessinsider.com/companies-started-middle-age...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Ccecil wrote:
       | First, You learned a lot about how to "not intentionally build a
       | business" which IMHO...is way more valuable than having
       | everything work out perfect. Remember the lessons that were
       | taught by every experience and interaction...being able to spot
       | the issues (or people who will cause issues) is very important.
       | 
       | Second, 30 is still very young. You are barely 10 years into the
       | cutoff society deems as "adult". I know it doesn't feel that way
       | when you are in it...but you still have a lot left in you.
       | 
       | I started my current company when I was over 30...my only wish is
       | that I would have done it when I was 19. I listened to naysayers,
       | which, BTW never go away. No matter what you do or how well
       | things are going...someone will always be around to tell you how
       | close failure is behind.
        
       | blahblah1234567 wrote:
       | "- Where do I even begin?"
       | 
       | With logic:
       | 
       | - Pick a goal (AKA a destination)
       | 
       | - Find a map to achieve that goal (AKA a Roadmap)
       | 
       | - Ask a question regarding the above two points, to a search
       | engine, such as "Roadmap to becoming <XYZ Occupation>"
       | 
       | For example, perhaps it's "Roadmap to becoming a Civil Law
       | Attorney" or "Roadmap to becoming a Web App Developer"
       | 
       | If it's the latter, here's a good resource: https://roadmap.sh/
       | 
       | If you intend to educate yourself, search for "Resources for
       | <learning to become XYZ Occupation/Learning XYZ Skillset>
        
         | gorjusborg wrote:
         | It's easy to let the feeling of being overwhelmed make things
         | seem harder than they need to be. This is an excellent way to
         | view the problem (or any problem, really).
         | 
         | I'd emphasize that 'I guess I'll go back to school' is probably
         | not a constructive thought. It is fine to go back to school,
         | but it should be a tool to get to your goal. If you have no
         | goal, school (and more debt) probably isn't going to help.
        
           | blahblah1234567 wrote:
           | I totally agree.
           | 
           | I'd also extrapolate on "If you have no goal, school (and
           | more debt) probably isn't going to help." because I agree
           | with that.
           | 
           | Instead of making school the goal, recognize that School
           | leads to a goal of a "Skill set" / "Knowledge base"
           | Therefore, the Skill Set & Knowledge Base are actually the
           | goal. And both can be had without school.
           | 
           | As can credentials-- in the form of certificates, rather than
           | school. I am a software developer at a "Fortune 1000" company
           | and my company likes employees to have certifications. I am
           | currently studying for a Kubernetes certification for
           | example.
           | 
           | Anyway, to get back to the idea of a goal--
           | 
           | I'd pick a goal based on what is in demand in the economy.
           | For this, you can check out the Bureau of Labor Statistics --
           | such as by googling: "BLS Fastest Growing Occupations" and/or
           | checking this page to get a sense of projected job openings
           | vs. salaries: "Visualize it: Wages and projected openings by
           | occupation"
           | https://www.bls.gov/careeroutlook/2019/article/wages-and-
           | ope...
           | 
           | I recommend picking a goal of a developing skillset for an
           | occupation which doesn't require a degree, but which focuses
           | on the skill set instead. But that said, a degree is OK
           | too... it's just that: 1. it's expensive (in the US at
           | least), 2. it takes years, 3. many classes in most degrees
           | aren't applicable to jobs.
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | I kinda do. I was a 3D artist for about 7 years, the
       | architectural firm I worked for went out of business out of the
       | blue, they let me go without a dime of compensation. I went back
       | to college and took a second graduation as a SE. I consider
       | myself successful cause I got to land a pretty good job in a
       | pretty good company. Also I'm pretty proud of my new set of
       | skills (being able to create software out of a blank text file)
        
       | beej71 wrote:
       | I only know people who have changed careers in their 40s, sorry.
       | ;)
       | 
       | I'm a university instructor now having dropped out of the
       | programming field about 6 years ago after 20 years in it. I have
       | a lot of 30-something students in CS.
       | 
       | "Where do I begin" is a great question. I'd ask you, "What do you
       | like doing?" If you didn't know, I'd start showing you different
       | careers and you'd categorize them as "no" and "maybe".
       | 
       | If you know what you want to do, Google how to get a job in that
       | field. Then do those things.
       | 
       | Caveat: beware of student debt! Do the math on if the career is
       | worth it. (Some careers can't pay back the cost of the training
       | and you end up paying for life.) Try to get grants and shop
       | around for less expensive accredited online schools, verifying
       | their value.
       | 
       | I'd also recommend that you choose a lucrative field that you
       | genuinely enjoy. If I weren't teaching, I'd be working in GIS.
       | (I'm going to start training for that.)
       | 
       | Every day is just a day later. It'll be a gift to your future
       | self. It'll be hard work, but you can absolutely do it. No better
       | time than the present!
        
       | paulusthe wrote:
       | Yes.
       | 
       | You can absolutely remake your career in your thirties. You can
       | even do it in your forties, and I suspect we'll see people in
       | their fifties doing it too.
       | 
       | We just don't live in a world where everyone gets a job at 22,
       | stays in that field and job for thirty years, then retires with a
       | pension. Tech moves too fast, and macro economic forces basically
       | necessitate that workers become flexible. Gig work, or 2-3 year
       | duration contract work, is going to be the future of most
       | employment.
       | 
       | If we accept that, then the idea of changing your career at
       | basically any age makes sense. The anxiety you're feeling comes
       | from unrealistic expectations - that you'll have a stable career,
       | chosen at 22, from which you won't depart. Not only is that
       | untrue in today's world, it's also profoundly boring. I can't
       | imagine doing the same thing for more than a couple of years; I'd
       | get so incredibly bored
        
         | russdill wrote:
         | My mom remade her career in her 60s. She now does QA, test, and
         | manages the scrum for a dev team. I really don't think there's
         | a limit.
        
       | shepardrtc wrote:
       | Yes, I went from a poorly-paid tech support manager at a
       | University to working at a startup on machine learning. Took me
       | 10 years though. But I worked my way up and constantly worked on
       | improving my knowledge.
       | 
       | Responses to your questions:
       | 
       | > Is there any hope for someone like me?
       | 
       | Yes, of course. Unless you decide you want to build a fusion
       | reactor in your backyard, I'm sure you can level up and get a
       | good job.
       | 
       | > Is there any reasonable path to starting over?
       | 
       | Yes, rewrite your resume. Make your great accomplishments stand
       | out. Gloss over the past few years with some bullshit. No one
       | cares that much. They care that you're hungry and you're willing
       | to work hard.
       | 
       | > Where do I even begin?
       | 
       | What do you know? What do you want to do? Figure out the path
       | from the former to the latter. Rewrite your resume. Get online
       | and start researching. Every day. Apply to jobs. Eventually
       | you'll find someone willing to give you a chance.
       | 
       | > Will tech co's ever consider hiring someone like me?
       | 
       | Are you hungry? If so, yes. Save the pity party for your
       | throwaway accounts. If you want to learn and build and excel,
       | make sure everyone knows it. Even if inside you're completely
       | unsure of yourself. Most people are, anyway. Just keep showing up
       | every day.
        
       | pleb_nz wrote:
       | I see these posts on hackernews quite often. I'm assuming some it
       | is due to cultural differences in certain parts of the world
       | because to me these questions silly especially for someone in
       | their 30s. Maybe if you were on your 60s or 70s these questions
       | would seem more reasonable to me.
       | 
       | I restarted in my late 30s, now late 40s I've my own SE business
       | and have team members and it's non-stop opportunities.
       | 
       | And I'm just one of many I know that have changed careers or
       | direction in 30s, 40s and 50s. I've read about plenty who have
       | done it later in life.
       | 
       | IMO and IME, If you want to do something, and you have drive,
       | desire and believe you can and you want to, go for it, don't let
       | age, disabilities, gender, or other people stop you.
        
         | theonething wrote:
         | > my own SE business
         | 
         | Is SE software engineering?
        
         | theideaofcoffee wrote:
         | I feel the same when I consider some of the people in my life
         | that aren't originally from the US. The general sentiment there
         | is that once you graduated or trained for something once then,
         | well, that's it. You're done and shouldn't try to break into
         | anything new, you're just not cut out for it. That feeling
         | seems to spill over into our interpersonal relationships when I
         | mention things like "oh, it might be interesting to one day try
         | <X>" with their response being "you'll never be <X>".
         | 
         | > IMO and IME, If you want to do something, and you have drive,
         | desire and believe you can and you want to, go for it, don't
         | let age, disabilities, gender, or other people stop you.
         | 
         | 100% agree
        
       | yareally wrote:
       | My wife did. She was a doctor and burned out during the pandemic.
       | She misses it, but not the baggage that came with it.
       | 
       | Now she's a software engineer at a large non profit. Only had
       | minimal experience writing code with me on hobby projects before
       | that, but she learned quickly.
        
       | chiefgeek wrote:
       | I've run my own successful database consulting business, been a
       | sales rep, development engineer and product manager for a Fortune
       | 50 company, ran a startup that I left, was VP ops for another
       | startup, digital sales support rep, digital photo lab owner and
       | photographer. I'm 53. Anything is possible. Agree with
       | suggestions to hire a career coach. Mine was great when I went
       | through a terrible patch in my early 40s. DM me for his contact.
        
       | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
       | My friend immigrated from Ukraine in her 50s, without any money
       | and with very rudimentary English. She became a millionaire by
       | opening a network of cheap kindergartens. Now retired with a nice
       | portfolio of real estate properties.
       | 
       | Generally, any immigrant from a poor country starts from a much
       | worse place than yours, but they have a huge positive gradient in
       | their lives that serves as a motivation.
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | >Is there any hope for someone like me? >Is there any reasonable
       | path to starting over? >Where do I even begin? >Will tech co's
       | ever consider hiring someone like me?
       | 
       | Frankly, that reads like a recruitment poster. If you are asking
       | yourself such questions, have you considered the military? There
       | are all sorts of tech-related jobs in the military that are way
       | more interesting than the civilian equivalent. Whatever you do,
       | the military would give you a clear path for advancement and
       | improvement. Even if you don't stick with it, a few years of
       | military experience doesn't hurt a resume.
        
       | soitgoes511 wrote:
       | Twice since 30. I screwed up my entire younger years, went back
       | to University after 30 to get a degree in Electrical Engineering
       | and worked hard during university. I was hired on as an engineer
       | making semiconductors for one of the largest analog semi's in the
       | world. During the pandemic, I decided to start yet another career
       | in another country.. Now I work as a technical electronics expert
       | in the automotive industry...
       | 
       | So, yes.. It is very possible to do this. Like most things in
       | life, you will have to work hard and make sacrifices.
        
       | Random_Person wrote:
       | Twice. At 31 I left the Automotive field to start working in IT.
       | It was a low paying government job without a lot of applicants. I
       | started college at 32 and got an AA in IT. At 38 my state
       | legislature shut down my agency and my wife and kids moved out. I
       | lost everything in resetting my finances and digging myself out
       | of the hole she created.
       | 
       | I had spent the past few years of my IT life learning PHP and at
       | 39 I landed a job as a developer at another state agency. Not
       | only was it a career reset, but an entire life reset. I turned 40
       | with absolutely nothing. I'm about to turn 44, and am flirting
       | with 6 figures between my state salary and my side gigs. I have a
       | savings for the first time in my adult life and a stable home
       | life.
       | 
       | it's absolutely possible and I didn't even try very hard.
        
       | LatteLazy wrote:
       | I moved from (rail) engineering to finance (tech work) at 28. The
       | first job was a bit of a disaster so I really got going at 30ish
       | if that helps. I also was a moron for stating as long as I did at
       | my medium engineering firm.
       | 
       | I am gay and a bit of a late bloomer so I didn't have kids, a
       | partner or an overly abundant social life to stop me really
       | working at it...
       | 
       | I think there is hope. I am on 6 figures in fin tech now.
       | 
       | I started with small companies: you (a lot) learn more, they hire
       | more easily (less HR people requiring things the actual team
       | don't care about) but the money is not normally as good. I'd
       | recommend the same.
        
       | celticninja wrote:
       | I did, I was a new father, and in my late 30s. Took a paycut at
       | the time, became a trainee developer. 6 years later, I'm a
       | (proper) dev and they are asking me to apply for senior dev
       | positions, I'm making more money, doing more fun work, and with
       | less stress and more remote working. Do it.
        
       | bryanrasmussen wrote:
       | Well I became a programmer in my 30s by accident, I decided to
       | learn all things XML at just the right time, which led me to
       | working on Governmental and International standardization. At
       | some point in my 40s I switched again to Frontend, just because I
       | had some frontend skills and there were some projects that were
       | hiring. I would have stagnated then but I helped start a startup
       | as CTO which, ended up leaving after a couple years because of
       | disagreements with cofounder but hey then I had an impressive
       | site and CV to point to so from that point it has been pretty
       | simple.
       | 
       | I would like to have a secondary career as a writer, but that is
       | harder to get started and anyway it would have to be a fallback
       | since realistically money is less.
        
       | pseudostem wrote:
       | I'm 45. I run a small ISP. It's a dying business, which will be
       | dead in maybe 7 years or so as prices in my geographical area
       | drop 10-15 percent every year.
       | 
       | I started an agri commodity trading business in 2015
       | (anticipating telecom going down in the future) which did quite
       | well for a while. Covid years were ultra bad. And the market
       | instead of recovering has gone even worse now. Many small
       | companies are closing down (2 of my clients this month).
       | 
       | Learnings from 2001, 2007/8 were to turn to education in a down
       | cycle. I had anyway not completed my undergrad college degree. I
       | joined one in data science. Found some problem areas for my
       | existing clients could be solved with data science. Registered a
       | new company last month, and this week got my a miniscule seed
       | funding (debt).
       | 
       | Things are not great but they're still looking up for me. I do
       | not consider myself skilled at anything except maybe relationship
       | building. I too feel that I've faked a lot by just being there. I
       | would suggest you leverage your existing experience, join a MOOC,
       | network with people - it'll take a while, maybe a year or more,
       | but things will work out.
       | 
       | I'll leave you with this cliche - luck is when preperation meets
       | opportunity. Be prepared.
        
       | whoknew1122 wrote:
       | I started over in my 30s. Here's what happened generally:
       | 
       | 1.) Graduated with a degree that had very limited options post-
       | graduation 2.) Worked dead-end jobs 3.) Got tired of said dead-
       | end jobs, and started teaching myself Linux and AWS 4.) While
       | employed at the last dead-end job, I got LPIC-1 and AWS Solutions
       | Architect Pro certs 5.) Used the certs to get an entry-level
       | Linux System Administrator/AWS SA job at a startup 6.) Worked my
       | butt off for a year at the entry-level job, and then applied for
       | a job at AWS (in support) 7.) Got job at AWS, which I'm still at
       | 
       | I went from making like $35k to 6 figures in around 4 years.
       | 
       | Find something you're passionate about, and go about learning it.
       | For entry-level jobs, certificates are often a good replacement
       | for experience (at least to get hired). Once you have your first
       | job, focus on meeting people and learning as much as you can. And
       | then pivot.
       | 
       | You won't ever know how good you are unless you take a leap. Only
       | reason I thought I was good enough to apply to AWS is a recruiter
       | reached out to me cold and I gave it a shot.
        
       | oregoncurtis wrote:
       | 34 here, spent a decade as a Project Manager in manufacturing.
       | Quit without an idea of what I wanted to do, 3 months later
       | decided to learn web development. After a year out of work I was
       | hired at a FAANG company. I'm only three months in and the recent
       | layoffs may mean I get kicked out, but I've been enjoying the
       | work so far and everyone I work with is giving me positive
       | feedback.
       | 
       | You need to create some way to keep yourself accountable and to
       | make an effort everyday, no matter how small, toward you're goal.
       | It takes work and a lot of time, but you can do it!
        
       | rvba wrote:
       | Warsaw, Poland, EU
       | 
       | Graduated top university, did internships, landed demanding
       | corporate jobs. Career stalled somehow.
       | 
       | I have a career in "boring" part of finance: financial planning
       | and analysis (where I make big but simple models in Excel -
       | without any statistics or programming involved, just very
       | detailed) and do a lot of various user side related work (key
       | user, acceptance tests, blueprinting, explaining to consultants
       | what broke this time). Is there any way to swich to something
       | else that pays decently?
       | 
       | I wouldnt like to be a tester, since those should know how to
       | automate tests. I know some SQL and some VBA, but it is primitive
       | stackoverflow driven development - good enough to impress some
       | junior bookkeepers, but a joke when a real programmer looks at
       | the code.
       | 
       | Scrum master perhaps? But how to start. I went to some agile
       | meetups, read the manifesto, read some blogs (that mostly sound
       | like self promotion...) not sure if I should start applying.
       | Especially Im getting old so Im more of a "suit" now.
       | 
       | Consulting is a garbage job it means jumping from client to
       | client + constant travel/overtime (I actually worked in
       | consulting a small bit).
       | 
       | Will local companies or startups pay for someome without
       | experience? Since I speak English some option is working remote,
       | preferably to an european start up so the hours are sane -
       | constant overtime is a big problem in finance.
       | 
       | I wonder if it is possible to switch to a product owner, or key
       | user or similar position. But how.
       | 
       | I saw that some startups want someone who can fill out those EU-
       | subsidy forms, but I never did that. Yet?
       | 
       | If someone needs a guy with tons of comments about your product
       | (warning those can be negative) I could be that guy. But I have
       | this feeling that everyone wants to be the idea guy and obiously
       | those who can build stuff are much more preferred.
        
       | spir wrote:
       | Today, we know KFC as Kentucky Fried Chicken, a pretty decent
       | restaurant as far as fast food goes.
       | 
       | But back in the day, Colonel Sanders didn't actually start what
       | became KFC until he was 62 years old. His career was haphazard
       | and beset by setbacks until he was almost a senior citizen.
       | 
       | You got this!
        
       | nathias wrote:
       | Yes, providing you have a year of free time. Learn to learn
       | first, research, decide on what makes sense to you, learn the
       | basics, practice the fundamentals every day, do your own
       | projects.
        
       | dirtybirdnj wrote:
       | I am in the process of doing so.
       | 
       | I can really relate to your naievate that by working hard your
       | efforts would be rewarded. It's really disheartening how
       | sociopathic and downright evil the people in charge can be. I
       | think when you rise up through the ranks you lose your ability to
       | be empathetic to the people your decisions affect. Otherwise how
       | can you be a strong leader if you aren't afraid to ruin a few
       | lives right? /s (just in case)
       | 
       | So rather than giving specific advice, I'm going to give you a
       | few pieces of my situation. Feel free to browse my comment
       | history to see the depths of a crippling burnout and career
       | failure mid-30s.
       | 
       | I did about 10yrs of development before I got to a really sweet
       | job in NYC. I got to experience the full startup ride from fun
       | spunky group to getting acquired and strip mined for assets and
       | personel.
       | 
       | I let the job become too much of my identity and I struggled to
       | move on because of this.
       | 
       | I moved to a different state (USA) with less population density
       | and more nature. I think this helped a lot. I'm also much more
       | isolated which has caused its own problems.
       | 
       | I got into therapy. It took two different therapists, the first
       | one when I told her I think I might be on the spectrum she told
       | me "well _I_ don 't do that" and we wasted another 2 months
       | before I missed a few appointments and things fell apart
       | professionally. The SECOND therapist I found is absolutely
       | amazing and the work we've done over the past 8 months is more
       | significant than I've achieved alone in the past 10 years.
       | 
       | I worked a few menial jobs. I was at a pizza kitchen for a while,
       | and I also worked at a kayak store. I felt like I was worthless,
       | I couldn't get a technical job or any that I could get I couldn't
       | tolerate. I cannot recommend this but sometimes you gotta do what
       | you gotta do to pay the bills.
       | 
       | I worked a few contract jobs after my last big fulltime job. I
       | have had a really bad stretch of gigs working for uninspiring and
       | technically incompetent people. At some point the blame rests
       | with me for not vetting these people, or at the very least
       | politely delcining the work because it wouldn't be a professional
       | work arrangement. You absolutely cannot talk reason into people
       | who haven't reasoned themselves into the situation they are in.
       | 
       | I got a stable job with the state I live in. It pays a lot less
       | than I'm used to but it affords me time to try to sharpen my
       | technical spear and crawl back into the market I used to inhabit.
       | 
       | People will consider hiring you, but not the you right now. You
       | might need to take time off from the job hunt and do something
       | else. You might need to take work in a different field to get
       | some perspective. You gotta find a job that rewards your natural
       | behavior instead of exploiting you like your startup experience.
       | The jobs are out there but 9/10 are smoke and mirrors bullshit
       | liars trying to exploit you. It's a numbers game finding a
       | reasonable employer and you just gotta be diligent in applying
       | more and also really honest with yourself about whether THE
       | COMPANY is up to YOUR standards not the other way around.
       | 
       | A big part of that last thing is self respect. You have to
       | actually have it, you can't fake it. Cultivating the value you
       | feel in yourself is hard and at times painful work but its the
       | only way.
       | 
       | Good luck. "Where to begin" is one step after the other, dont
       | give up. Find something that fucks you back even if you have to
       | do it yourself with blood sweat and tears.
        
       | glasss wrote:
       | We do the more boring part of tech, IT management. One of our
       | best hires was someone who went from managing their family bar
       | for 20 years to taking a couple of IT course/ programs and being
       | introduced to us.
       | 
       | Life is really long and hard and complicated. But most of the
       | time you can make it work.
        
       | bsuvc wrote:
       | To be honest, your biggest limitation is going to be your
       | mindset, not your age.
       | 
       | The fact that you can't see a path forward for yourself and using
       | phrases like "execs who had no interest in leveling me up" (hint:
       | it's your job to do that) and "I was a moron", does not bode well
       | for your chances.
       | 
       | You're going to have a hard time getting hired if this is the
       | attitude you project, and you're going to have a hard time
       | improving yourself with the negative mindset you seem to have
       | adopted.
       | 
       | I know it is cliche, but you need to adopt a growth mindset
       | (Google it, it is a thing)
        
         | mindtricks wrote:
         | I don't necessarily disagree with you, but coming in with the
         | mindset is not always natural. We don't know where the poster
         | grew up, their education, their background, etc. It's not the
         | worst assumption to believe that a company is going to be
         | invested in developing you because some will and do. Sadly, the
         | poster was not part of one of those companies.
         | 
         | So instead of beating them down, we should point them to a
         | better way of thinking in a more constructive manner.
        
           | bsuvc wrote:
           | I guess I came across harsh maybe, but I really am trying to
           | constructively help OP.
           | 
           | Rather than enabling that way of thinking and reassuring
           | them, I think they need a wake-up call.
           | 
           | You're right, though. I don't know their circumstances and am
           | projecting my own experience here.
        
         | q845712 wrote:
         | with full agreement re. growth mindset, I've definitely worked
         | with people above me who were more, less, and completely un-
         | interested in leveling me up. It still makes a difference.
        
       | nicpottier wrote:
       | You spent your 20s cutting your teeth on a failed startup. Lots
       | and lots of people do that and it's a perfectly acceptable thing
       | to have on a resume. I know people who have started in their 30s
       | from never having programmed professionally at all and are now
       | working at a FAANG company. The world is your oyster, go get it.
        
         | highwaylights wrote:
         | I think this is the right answer.
         | 
         | It sounds like you've maybe seen your resume in front of you
         | and you're reflecting on how it didn't go the way you'd hoped,
         | rather than the value in it.
         | 
         | Talk to a career coach who can help you write it from the
         | perspective of focusing on your wins.
         | 
         | I don't know you or your background but I doubt the story of
         | your career is "I did a startup and it failed and I should've
         | seen that coming and now I'm lacking confidence".
         | 
         | Get the resume rewritten:
         | 
         | - Job functions. - Tech/skills learned. - Explanation of how
         | eager you are for the next challenge.
         | 
         | Buddy, if you're old in your 30's then I'm _ancient_ and I
         | refuse to accept that. If you went to grad school then you're
         | probably at most 15 years out of school. That's means you still
         | have two thirds of a typical working life ahead of you. More if
         | you're lucky.
         | 
         | Make a plan and get yourself back out there.
         | 
         | By the way, I'd _absolutely_ hire a late career switcher,
         | because you've likely got more responsibilities than someone
         | straight out of college. This might sound counter-intuitive
         | (you can't be easily exploited with 60 hour work weeks the way
         | a starry-eyed grad can), but you also likely can't afford to
         | _waste anyone's time_.
        
       | Justsignedup wrote:
       | My friend started training to be a programmer at 32. She's 39 now
       | and is enjoying her very successful programming "early" career.
       | 
       | Prior to this she was a pianist.
        
       | tin7in wrote:
       | Yes, I know a few good examples.
       | 
       | A friend went to university in her mid 30s during/after her
       | maternity leave and switched the industry completely, then
       | started her own company in that industry.
       | 
       | Another friend made his hobby a career and switched from sales to
       | UX design in his 30s.
       | 
       | I suggest you start meeting people and network. You don't know
       | where opportunities will come from in the future.
        
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