[HN Gopher] The language of labouring reveals its tortured roots...
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       The language of labouring reveals its tortured roots (2013)
        
       Author : robtherobber
       Score  : 21 points
       Date   : 2023-01-18 10:52 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | thriftwy wrote:
       | I have this super weird idea about slave-driven plantations.
       | Initially, they could only be slave driven because mass wage
       | employment were not invented yet.
       | 
       | Imagine you wanted to plant sugar on some remote islands and
       | would pay wages to workers. Where would they spend those on a
       | remote island? They would likely be conned and/or starve very
       | quickly. Top level plantation executives with practical freedom
       | of movement had wages, but even guards were mostly paid in dining
       | and dress.
       | 
       | This is not to argue that slave labor is any less terrible than
       | it was. It's just we should be grateful to live in societies
       | where wage employment is mostly figured out.
        
         | burkaman wrote:
         | > Initially, they could only be slave driven because mass wage
         | employment were not invented yet.
         | 
         | ??? "Mass wage employment" goes back to at least the building
         | of Egyptian pyramids, 4000 years before the 17th century sugar
         | plantations you're talking about. Plantation owners didn't pay
         | their workers because they didn't think black people were
         | humans and enslaving them was cheaper than the alternatives,
         | not because they couldn't figure out how to pay them.
         | 
         | I'm sorry if I've misunderstood you but I've reread your
         | comment many times and I cannot figure out what you're trying
         | to say. When do you think paid employment was invented? How
         | were ancient armies fielded? How did any pre-modern society
         | build large buildings or roads?
        
         | wolfram74 wrote:
         | And yet company stores managed to make it work.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tXJokkWQjY
        
         | avgcorrection wrote:
         | There was a debate in America in the 1800 (during abolition) on
         | how similar wage labor was/is to slavery. Those who said that
         | it was would call it "wage slavery".
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | bananarchist wrote:
       | Excerpted from the book 'Did You Know "Nice" Used to Mean
       | "Stupid" and Other Ways Etymologists Will Waste Your Time'
        
         | JellyBeanThief wrote:
         | I tried Google Books and I didn't come up with anything. Could
         | you link that, please?
        
         | daniel-cussen wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | yboris wrote:
       | Seems related: _Debt: The First 5000 Years_ by David Graeber
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Debt-Updated-Expanded-First-Years/dp/...
       | 
       | The concept of "debt" has a long history that is surprising and
       | illuminating. A really excellent book.
       | 
       | For a shorter version, see his talk at Google:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZIINXhGDcs
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-19 23:02 UTC)