[HN Gopher] IBM Quantum System Two
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       IBM Quantum System Two
        
       Author : mtillman
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2023-01-18 07:03 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (newsroom.ibm.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (newsroom.ibm.com)
        
       | renox wrote:
       | So what's the maximum number it can factorize?
        
         | tromp wrote:
         | We would hear about it if it could break the current record of
         | 21...
        
       | asow92 wrote:
       | Where is a good place (if there is one) to learn about quantum
       | software engineering concepts?
        
         | marius_k wrote:
         | https://quantum.country/
         | 
         | it has built-in spaced repetition cards
        
         | nerdo wrote:
         | https://qiskit.org/textbook/preface.html
        
         | GavCo wrote:
         | This podcast episode is great as a high-level introduction
         | https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/147-quantum-computing-...
        
       | abrichr wrote:
       | Serious question: is there any reason to trust anything IBM does
       | or says isn't vaporware? In recent memory I am only familiar with
       | failed projects that received copious media praise (eg Watson,
       | BlueMix).
       | 
       | The only project I know of that was genuinely successful is Deep
       | Blue. What successes have they had since then?
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | There is successful tech in the "tech that does what says on
         | the box" and in "achieves good market fit".
         | 
         | A lot of their stuff does 1, but not 2.
         | 
         | And their mainframes, underhyped to the extreme, that more or
         | less still run the world.
        
           | rosebay wrote:
           | I didn't know IBM mainframes run the world? Just curious,
           | care to expand?
        
             | dekhn wrote:
             | many of the most core US IT infrastructure projects-
             | government and commercial- depend on IBM 360 assembly code
             | or another IBM system, written decades ago that has been
             | repeatedly scaled to handle the increase in load.
             | 
             | Two I can think of: SABRE and the IRS. See more here:
             | https://www.nextgov.com/cxo-briefing/2016/05/10-oldest-it-
             | sy...
             | 
             | Personally I have a ton of respect for production systems
             | that can be scaled in place for 50 years. But I don't have
             | any interest in learning to run IBM mainframes or code for
             | them- I'm preparing for lots of contract work in 2037.
        
             | nerdo wrote:
             | Banks run the world, IBM mainframes run the banks.
        
               | dralley wrote:
               | >IBM mainframes run the banks.
               | 
               | And the airlines, and the logistics companies
        
               | sophacles wrote:
               | That's a bit unfair to the insurance companies. They have
               | a pretty big say in what happens and also run mainframes.
        
         | Chabsff wrote:
         | Kinda-Sorta. It depends on what you mean by "success". IBM has
         | been doing a commendable job at managing expectations wrt/
         | quantum computing. e.g. from this very article:
         | 
         | "The new 433 qubit 'Osprey' processor brings us a step closer
         | to the point where quantum computers will be used to tackle
         | previously unsolvable problems,"
         | 
         | So we can reliably expect them to ship what they are
         | promissing. However, there is still a _massive_ skew between
         | what QC brings to the table vs what the public (and investors)
         | are expecting from it. At the current trend, anything QC-
         | related is effectively guaranteed to qualify as vaporwave due
         | to the public at large being mislead on the subject for so
         | long.
        
           | Jabbles wrote:
           | _This processor has the potential to run complex quantum
           | computations well beyond the computational capability of any
           | classical computer._
           | 
           | I don't think that manages expectations well, the word
           | "potential" is doing a lot of work.
        
         | jjtheblunt wrote:
         | Power architecture chips, but that's from a no-need-for-
         | marketing-embellishments classical realm.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power10
         | 
         | for an example that is current
        
         | sophacles wrote:
         | Those flagship projects that failed technologically were
         | amazing successes.
         | 
         | > received copious media praise
         | 
         | That's the success criteria.
         | 
         | IBM makes money in lots of ways. The last few decades they've
         | struggled with public perception, and an image of being "has-
         | been". This has hurt their ability to get talent and enter new
         | markets. Having your name next to neat, futuristic tech is a
         | good way to counter that image. Even more so when it's things
         | like Watson and Quantum computing that have real nerds doing
         | actual fawning over the tech.
        
         | kvathupo wrote:
         | Although I'm not up to date on the most recent industry
         | developments, I'd say to be less concerned about the number of
         | qubits, and more concerned about the gate fidelity and qubit
         | coherence. Certainly, you want a quantum computer that you can
         | actually use [1]! It's also important to distinguish between
         | the adiabatic quantum computing of companies like D-Wave with
         | their many qubits and the gate-based quantum computing of
         | Google, IonQ, IBM, etc. with their fewer qubits.
         | 
         | [1] - https://arxiv.org/abs/2110.03137
        
         | sebzim4500 wrote:
         | Was Watson a scam? I mean the jeapordy AI, not all the
         | completely unrelated projects they gave the same name later.
        
           | Chabsff wrote:
           | Consider that the Jeopardy stunt was basically a sales pitch
           | saying: "If it can do that for Jeopardy, then just imagine
           | what it can do for you!"
           | 
           | There is definitely an argument to be made that this was an
           | empty promise. Not necessarily enough to call it a "scam",
           | but vaporware...
        
           | qbasic_forever wrote:
           | I don't think it was an outright scam, but its use in medical
           | analysis turned out to be very poor:
           | https://qz.com/2129025/where-did-ibm-go-wrong-with-watson-
           | he...
           | 
           | Definitely over-hyped technology. Probably not a scam though.
        
           | kvathupo wrote:
           | In light of the large language models from Vaswani et al.,
           | I'm curious if anyone could chime in:
           | 
           | 1. Does Watson incorporate any deep learning?
           | 
           | 2. If not, why? Were disagreements based in business or
           | theory?
        
       | low_tech_punk wrote:
       | Are we post-RSA yet?
        
         | wahern wrote:
         | If and when it happens, ECC will be broken before RSA, as the
         | latter requires 1 or 2 orders of magnitude more qubits for the
         | same classical computing complexity. Given how difficult it
         | seems to be to scale quantum computers, there's likely to be a
         | years-long period between ECC being deemed too risky and RSA
         | remaining viable, at least for some tasks.
         | 
         | This might (depending on the precise numbers) also be an
         | argument for Curve448 over Curve25519, apropos a recent Golang
         | crypto project rejection of Curve448. Notably, upgrading to a
         | stronger curve is much more difficult from a logistics
         | standpoint because you have to explicitly add code for each
         | curve to various libraries, and then roll them out globally.
         | Generic curve libraries never took hold after side-channel
         | attacks became common. Whereas for RSA larger keys are trivial
         | to support through a simple parameter, and generally already
         | supported by deployed software. Some RSA libraries currently
         | cap out at 8192, 65536, or some such for pragmatic reasons
         | (e.g. limiting computational complexity attacks or static loop
         | unrolling), but by comparison this is much, much easier to
         | remedy.
         | 
         | Of course, larger keys only buys you a little time. But it will
         | be a mad scramble when (and if!) it happens, so that time will
         | be very valuable, and much money will be changing hands.
        
       | jimmar wrote:
       | I watched some of the presentations at their recent quantum
       | summit. They have smart people building sophisticated systems,
       | but they struggled to define meaningful use cases for quantum
       | computing.
       | 
       | I've noticed a "tell" for when product launches will likely fail.
       | If the presenter cannot create a strong argument for the product,
       | but instead tells the audience some version of, "we're excited to
       | see what use cases you create for our product," then the product
       | is likely to fail. IBM did this several times at the Quantum
       | summit. It's basically saying, "Here's a thing. Hopefully you can
       | find something useful to do with it, because we can't. But here
       | are our hardware specs."
       | 
       | I'll pay more attention when IBM and other quantum players start
       | to talk about applications more than numbers of qubits.
        
         | dekhn wrote:
         | My favorite are the press releases from companies that say they
         | need a quantum computer to do logistics and routing. I'm still
         | waiting to see one of the solutions the QC came up with that
         | couldn't have been produced by a modern constraint solver or
         | heuristic router for 1/100th the cost and time.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | > "we're excited to see what use cases you create for our
         | product,"
         | 
         | The killer feature of the iPhone is making phone calls.
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | LASERs had the same problem when they were first invented. It
         | took serious cost reductions before they became practical
         | outside of laboratory environments. Now they are everywhere. I
         | think Quantum computing is currently in the same place. The
         | systems just aren't practical yet, but if they survive and
         | iterate a few more times it could be revolutionary.
        
           | Chabsff wrote:
           | Revolutionise what?
           | 
           | Sure, we can hand-wave away that it'll revolutionise
           | *something*, but there's no direct candidate on the horizon.
           | As of today, at best we can hope that more accurate quantum
           | simulations could lead to some breakthrough tech, but that's
           | a very indirect revolution at best.
           | 
           | With LASER, at least, there was a bunch of known use-cases
           | that were blocked by the availability of the tech. There are
           | no such equivalents here.
        
             | ejiblabahaba wrote:
             | Aside from the much-touted uses in cryptography, probably
             | the biggest use will be as universal quantum simulators. A
             | lot of quantum simulations are infeasible beyond trivial
             | interactions, because the classical memory and number of
             | computations required to capture and progress the state of
             | the quantum system grows exponentially with each
             | interacting element in the system. Simplifying
             | exponentially increasing memory/computation time
             | requirements to linearly increasing qubit/simulation time
             | requirements will make a lot of chemistry and material
             | science way easier.
        
             | pooloo wrote:
             | If you build it, they will come...
             | 
             | Most of the time, technology that is leading edge is only
             | there for a short period, as its either bought out or lacks
             | funding. With IBM, they have the funds to start
             | revolutions, and have a larger vision at play. However,
             | quantum computing is not a widely accepted concept due to a
             | lot of its complexities, which is likely why its such a
             | niche area. Given time and money, which IBM can handle,
             | something will happen.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | mabbo wrote:
             | The Quantum Algorithm Zoo website[0] gives some examples of
             | problems where the quantum algorithm is much faster than
             | the classical one.
             | 
             | My own view is that for a lot of (but not all[1]) problems
             | for which we have a quantum algorithm improvement, we maybe
             | already have a heuristic that gets us 95% of the way there
             | just as quickly. So the application of a QC on these
             | problems is buying us a massive speedup, but only if you
             | need to get the perfect, optimal answer. And sometimes you
             | do!
             | 
             | [0]https://quantumalgorithmzoo.org/
             | 
             | [1]Factoring large primes is a good counter example.
        
               | inasio wrote:
               | An issue highlighted there is that there are very few
               | algorithms where you have an exponential advantage vs
               | classical hardware
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | I recently had the opportunity to talk to the head of a company
         | which is trying to build quantum computers. It's very obviously
         | a spin off from a university to provide a way to keep their
         | better Ph. D students employed and researching but not on
         | University payroll (i.e. with the various requirements that
         | entails).
         | 
         | Basically her opinion was they were 10 years at least away from
         | meaningfully getting beyond _4_ practical qubits with their
         | technology, and weren 't worried about it because everyone
         | reporting more are using hundreds to thousands of qubits to
         | error correct out to get the 60 or so they report using in
         | calculations (their technology value add was that they could do
         | with a lot less error correction).
         | 
         | The overall take away I got was quantum computers aren't
         | "imminent" - they're 30 years away at minimum, probably more.
         | The company exists because it's important basic research, but
         | it's definitely not a "commercial products soon" endeavor - it
         | was basically a way to fund focused research on a particular
         | method.
        
         | kvathupo wrote:
         | I think the battle to promote the use of quantum computers is
         | rendered even more difficult by the fact that their raison
         | d'etre of "being faster than classical computers" requires one
         | to further develop the existing field of complexity analysis
         | for classical computers. Indeed, it's difficult to fairly
         | compare the gate/oracle-based complexity of quantum computers
         | to the iterations/multiplications/etc-based complexity of
         | classical computers, especially if we don't know their
         | complexity in the first place [1]!
         | 
         | [1] - Recently, there has been interest in the complexity
         | analysis of deep learning NNs: https://arxiv.org/abs/1811.03962
         | 
         | Further Reading:
         | 
         | * Church-Turing Thesis for quantum computers -
         | https://quantumcomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/6088/wh...
         | 
         | * Quantum Turing Machine -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Turing_machine
        
       | dclowd9901 wrote:
       | Why would they cover up that beautiful machine with an ugly gray
       | box?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-01-19 23:00 UTC)