[HN Gopher] The Quest for a Dumber Phone
___________________________________________________________________
The Quest for a Dumber Phone
Author : kevin_hu
Score : 100 points
Date : 2023-01-17 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (every.to)
(TXT) w3m dump (every.to)
| BirAdam wrote:
| I bought a Mudita Pure. I don't use it. I just wanted to support
| the creation of a dumb phone that aligned with my principles.
| Unfortunately for me, having a smart phone is essentially a
| requirement for both my work and my family. I am unwilling to
| give up either of these and therefore the smartphone is present.
|
| In general, I agree with many commenters here. Separate devices
| with dedicated purposes tend to do a better job, and smartphones
| are designed to be both useful and addictive. As a result, I view
| the smartphone as a very dangerous tool. It can be used to great
| effectiveness, and it can become a blight on society.
|
| When I was a child, I dreamed of a computer roughly the size of
| beeper that had no screen. Instead, I thought people would have a
| headset similar to Apple's wired earbuds with a microphone and
| we'd compute via voice with an internet connection to fetch data.
| Sadly, we're here 30 years later and there's still no sign of
| such a future. Amazon tried, Apple is trying, Google is trying,
| and no one is winning in that space. Apparently, it's both hard
| and unwanted. Today, I think my idea was naive, because such a
| device would likely play a minute thirty of ads before giving you
| the result of your query, and I would end up tossing the thing
| out the window of a moving car.
| jareklupinski wrote:
| the interface you mentioned reminds me of how people in the
| movie "Her" interact with their futuristic devices
|
| they still use a smaller display they keep in their pocket for
| visual content, but it exists as an accessory to view things
| queued up by the voice interface
|
| I love the idea and the approach, I wish there was a way I can
| use this on a real subway (in the movie there seemed to be a
| lot more distance between people/users)
| BirAdam wrote:
| I never saw "Her", but I suppose I will give it a watch.
| bovermyer wrote:
| What about landlines? I feel like that's an option people rarely
| talk about.
|
| I use my iPhone as a camera, for text chatting with (less than 5)
| people, and for navigation, mostly. Sometimes I use it as a
| phone. I could see replacing the phone feature (except for
| emergencies) with a landline.
| cpsns wrote:
| Due to where I live I have to maintain a wired phone as I can't
| get a reliable cell signal.
|
| I just have a voip phone adapter connected to a random old
| phone and I use voip.ms for the actual service. It costs
| effectively nothing to run. It's not a landline in the
| transitional sense, but those largely don't exist anymore.
| bovermyer wrote:
| My house still has phone wiring and my ISP still offers
| landline services, and I'm not in a primitive area.
| cpsns wrote:
| Yes, but it's probably not a landline in the way most
| people think. Almost all those services use voip backends
| now with only the last mile being copper.
| 310260 wrote:
| Exactly! And especially if it's provided by a cable ISP.
| It's just VoIP. Maybe with some QoS on their network and
| battery backup.
|
| It's not a real circuit-switched network with its own
| power supply like traditional POTS service.
| drbeast wrote:
| [dead]
| imwillofficial wrote:
| I had a LightPhone 2 and it was great. Unfortunately with my
| work, I need slack and such so it couldn't be my daily driver.
| AstixAndBelix wrote:
| I've realized there's a single simple thing that makes these dumb
| phones useless:
|
| _closed source_.
|
| That's right, closed source services.
|
| If we were able to write our own minimal Messenger, Whatsapp,
| Signal, Viber, etc. clients without fear of getting a cease and
| desist letter from a trillion dollar company we could easily
| sideload them into any phone with an internet connection.
|
| Phones are meant to be used for communication, but communication
| is not SMSs or emails anymore, it's a bunch of proprietary
| services which dictate what platforms we can use to access them.
| ploum wrote:
| Exactly that. I'm also worried to see KaiOS phones featuring
| proeminent Google apps. I don't want Google in a minimal phone.
|
| That's why I've really big hopes for Mudita: they open-sourced
| their whole OS (I didn't checked the code but it seems to be
| fully on github).
|
| My biggest problem with dumbphones is that, in Belgium, nearly
| all banks now require you to use their app. (my solution so
| far: keeping an old smartphone with broken screen in a drawer,
| only for banking purposes).
|
| Also, I realized that my use is completely different while
| traveling: I've an app for belgian railway, I synchronize PDF
| tickets to my phone and I also need the companion app for my
| bike GPS. My solution so far: using the Hisense A5, with eink
| screen. No google, most apps don't work but bike GPS works
| great. Problem is that Firefox and Protonmail also work great,
| which is not a minimal phone anymore.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| > without fear of getting a cease and desist letter
|
| Seems like the problem is the law and legal system being abused
| to prevent adversarial interoperability. The official clients
| being closed source doesn't change anything.
| luxuryballs wrote:
| I wish I could give up iMessage but I can't, mostly due to peer
| pressure. Likewise, I don't see how I could ever use SMS again
| when messages are so easily obtainable that they may as well be
| considered public. People have been charged with driving related
| crimes just based off of timestamps on SMS messages, for one
| example, and they didn't need a warrant. I'm unable to comprehend
| why anyone would think it's wise to use SMS.
| inasmuch wrote:
| I'm grateful to not have much of a problem with my smartphone
| usage, but I often find myself researching dumb phones in search
| of something somehow better because I quite dislike my phone (and
| all the others I've seen/heard of) as a device. It's too big, I
| hate touchscreens, and I hate Bluetooth.
|
| I'd like to see someone develop a new smartphone platform with
| all the niceties like GPS, a decent camera, easy cloud (and/or
| manual) backups of my data, and either a lot of onboard storage
| or easy SD compatibility, but offer it in a completely different
| physical format that is more conducive to efficient, intermittent
| productive/tool-like use and less tuned for consumption. Small
| form factor, maybe a fold-out QWERTY keyboard (my LG Env3 is the
| only phone I've ever actually liked), headphone jack, etc.
| Something reasonably durable that can take a drop or be submerged
| and simply won't be "fun" enough to spend much passive time on.
|
| As for apps, I like all my basics to be built by the same company
| that built the hardware, but combining that with an open platform
| for third-party options seems like an easy win, even if I don't
| end up using those other apps myself.
|
| I recently got my old iPod up and running again because I loathe
| the touchscreen/Bluetooth headphone combination for listening to
| music. But it feels so stupid to be carrying an additional
| device. I now carry a camera with me too because I dislike
| smartphone image processing. This also feels stupid.
|
| It's silly that we've concluded the only two options are pocket
| computers that can't do much at all, or pocket computers that can
| do anything, but only in this one way that many people find
| harmful.
| Derawk wrote:
| The most helpful thing I've done was to set my iphone screen to
| grayscale by default [1]. Now if I look at my phone for any
| period of time and then look up the whole world appears to be so
| colorful (even in the dead of winter). The choice of how to spend
| my time becomes easier and I still have a smartphone in order to
| live comfortably in the urban world (open qr code menus, order
| car or scooter rides, present digital documentation or event
| tickets, etc.)
|
| [1] https://intercom.help/flipdapp/en/articles/1970782-how-to-
| se...
| post_break wrote:
| Here's an example of living with the light phone:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7G1pWYVtBg
|
| Honestly I think using an Android phone with minimal apps, or
| having two profiles, one for work, one for play/weekends makes
| the most sense. And on iPhone using screen time to force your
| grip from app vices makes more sense than the self punishment of
| these phones.
|
| That said my ADHD makes me want to buy one of these
| https://skysedge.com/unsmartphones/RUSP/index.html
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| > Here's an example of living with the light phone:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7G1pWYVtBg
|
| That's expensive for a phone with basically zero features...
|
| Why not just buy a nokia 3310 (the new one) for around 60eur,
| where you get a better, faster phone, with basically the same
| limitations as any other of the dumbphones, but it's cheaper
| and works faster and has a better screen? Also, the ergonomics
| are better, dual sim, sd card slot for music... and again, no
| apps, no emails, no notifications.. just a phone as it used to
| be (well.. with music and bluetooth).
| dbalatero wrote:
| This idea of "more features, better deal" is a common thing
| people bring up. However, one of the stronger "features" that
| draws me to the Light Phone is that they are an opinionated
| company that designs their product specifically to prevent
| the distraction/engagement-seeking style of apps that are so
| prevalent in smartphone ecosystems.
|
| Whether or not that's a feature that resonates with you is,
| of course, another story!
|
| For me I have the money, would like to vote with it by
| supporting a company aligned with my interests, and don't
| mind paying that premium. You might have different finances
| and prefer the $60 EUR option, and that's fine too.
|
| If you check out Jose's channel (from the article), he
| reviews tons of these phones and there's likely a sweet spot
| in there for most people that are curious.
| sparrish wrote:
| Because texting on a Nokia touchpad is terrible plus I'd like
| to have driving directions and prompts.
| andrew-dc wrote:
| Having not used a smart phone for ~5 years now, I can say that it
| is totally a workable solution - however, there are, of course
| trade-offs, and several persistent annoyances. Rather than get
| into a list, I will present the one thing that I find the most
| frustrating:
|
| Our society expects you to have and use a smart phone for nearly
| everything.
|
| This might be less annoying if it meant only new functions or
| supplemented old things, but in my experience it's the opposite.
| It's often the most simple low-fi things we have been doing for
| ages, that have been overhauled to require a smartphone, app, and
| data plan. It's hard to be looked at as 'the person complicating
| things', when everybody else expects you to carry a luxury item
| (and an expensive monthly service bill), just to perform a basic
| task, like paying a bill, or reading a menu.
|
| I'm not one to wander around expecting society to cater to my own
| needs, but I openly admit that I find this Twilight Zone-like
| first-world problem (What do you mean, you can't use our app?)
| the most infuriating.
|
| With that said, you can still get by in most situations, but I
| don't see the above getting better on into the future, unless
| there is some cultural revolution about how view and use
| technology.
| 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/02/15/91-of-u...
| titanomachy wrote:
| Calling a smartphone a "luxury item" if you live in America (or
| similar) is a bit disingenuous. Anything that has 85% market
| penetration is by definition not a luxury item.
|
| In some countries this could be an accurate description,
| though. And I agree with the overall sentiment, I would like it
| to be easier to get through my day without using a smartphone.
| throwaway4aday wrote:
| It adheres to the definition. The problem with the phrasing
| is that nearly all people in America and many other countries
| are inundated with luxury items to the point where we view
| them as basic necessities. That doesn't make them
| necessities, they are still lifestyle choices that while more
| affordable than ever are still superfluous to our existence.
|
| In other words, we're all spoiled brats ;)
| chefkoch wrote:
| At least in Germany you get a Smartphone for way less than
| 100EUR and a call + SMS + 4GB data flat for 5EUR. If that
| is luxury what is going to the cinema for 20EUR (movie and
| popcorn) for 2 hours?
| lastofthemojito wrote:
| Yeah, even as a smartphone owner, I find it annoying how some
| places just assume you're able (and willing!) to install some
| arbitrary app to do business with them, etc.
|
| That being said, it really doesn't have to be all that
| expensive. Sure, if you buy the newest iPhone every year and
| get a high-end Verizon plan, that'll cost some dough. But you
| can get a used or low-end smartphone and a cheap plan -
| they're out there: https://www.tomsguide.com/us/best-cheap-
| cell-phone-plans,rev...
| parker_mountain wrote:
| > luxury item (and an expensive monthly service bill)
|
| Before applying any subsidies for low income people, you can
| get a perfectly usable smartphone for under $40 and unlimited
| data cell service (slow but usable for basic tasks) for
| $10/month. An iPhone, with service, can be had for a total of
| under $50/month.
|
| These aren't luxury items anymore.
| wheelerof4te wrote:
| I really wish that the world gravitated towards more hardware-
| related gadgety future.
|
| I was quite fond of the Japanese vision of future, where there is
| an item/gadget/accessory for everything. That way, people could
| choose to which degree they want to interact with their
| technology.
|
| But here we are, stuck in the IoT software-focused world.
| QuercusMax wrote:
| Or even the Star Trek (TNG-era) future - people put things on
| PADDs which seem to generally be for individual purposes /
| projects. They're cheap / disposable (replicable?), and are
| treated more like physical paper notebooks than expensive smart
| tablets.
| TSiege wrote:
| This was a very thoughtful piece. I appreciate the honest
| discussion of the struggle between giving up great apps for the
| sake of being distraction free. I've looked into the light phone
| but there's no support for Spotify, which is a big detractor for.
| I believe they added basic map functionality, but no streaming
| music is hard as my taste has exceeded my personal digital
| library
| disantlor wrote:
| consider streaming/downloading (& supporting) independant radio
| like WFMU.org
|
| not saying it's going to scratch all the itches that Spotify
| would, but it definitely will scratch some you didnt realize
| you had, which is a fun experience on it's own
| dbalatero wrote:
| I have a separate audio player that I was carrying with my flip
| before I went to the Light Phone. A bunch of them have Spotify
| support, and it seems like you can spend from $100 to $400 to
| $800 to $thousands, depending on your appetite. Separate
| devices has its downsides (net price can be higher, more pocket
| space), but also has the upside of having devices focused and
| potentially higher quality. An option if you're thinking of it!
| blacklion wrote:
| It is interesting to see how different communication patterns are
| compating to your own bubble.
|
| For me dumb phone is no use, as I don't use cellular voice for
| anything (I've talk with my friends and parents on daily basis,
| but it is always Telegram/Skype voice call, not cellular voice),
| and only usage of SMS for me is force-feeded 2FA for banks and
| other services which don't know better (unfortunately)...
|
| Who will I call, we all are all around the Globe? Why I will
| text?.. Ok, week ago I had birthday party and there were a fair
| amount of guests, so some of my friends now in same location as
| me. Do they have local phone numbers? I bet, they have, because
| without it it is impossible to open bank account or rent a flat.
| Do I know these numbers? No. Because for what reason, we all
| communicate in messengers for years. These accounts are fixed
| identities for us, and phone numbers are for governments and
| banks.
|
| I could simply turn off my smartphone with same effect as have
| dumb phone :-)
|
| Oh, maybe, I need to call ambulance once a year...
|
| Edit:
|
| Idea of phone which is technically LTE Modem with all chat/voice
| protocols under the unified phone-like interface, plus ability to
| run some offline GPS, like Organic Maps or OsmAnd, looks good,
| but politically impossible due to close nature of most chat/voice
| apps.
| dorchadas wrote:
| This is my issue. I wish I had a _dumber_ phone. Like, one that
| allowed only certain things by default - messaging apps, gps
| trackers, Spotify being the big ones. If there was one like
| that, I 'd buy it almost immediately.
| cheesetoastie wrote:
| This turns any phone into a dumb phone for free :)
|
| https://specialprojects.studio/project/envelope/
| setgree wrote:
| I long for a dumber phone, but I've been thinking about all the
| supplementary devices I'd need to buy to make up for it --
| basically a printer (+ ink) for tickets and a GPS device with car
| ride services and google maps built in for getting around.
|
| I _feel_ as though I need those things, at any rate.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > I've been thinking about all the supplementary devices I'd
| need to buy to make up for it -- basically a printer (+ ink)
| for tickets and a GPS device with car ride services and google
| maps built in for getting around.
|
| I've got a printer at home. Sister in law printed a plane
| ticket on it the other day, just in case there'd be an issue
| with her phone. Instead of "GPS device + car ride services"
| I've got an old-fashioned thing: a car. The car happens to have
| its own GPS so I can get around.
|
| It may not suit everybody of course.
| setgree wrote:
| I am with you until the car bit, but I live in Brooklyn and
| haven't driven in years. Google Maps is essential for me, I
| fear
| dbalatero wrote:
| I'm also in Brooklyn. Light Phone 2 has directions
| including MTA transit. For tickets, I do print them out.
|
| Sometimes I'll draw a little map for fun and use that
| instead of the phone directions, for simple things. Once I
| draw the map I find that I actually memorize 90% of it
| anyways and often don't end up looking at it.
|
| As for car ride services, I just stopped using them except
| for super essential times, at which point I can pull my
| iPhone out of a drawer.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| You can have a tablet in the car for maps and use the phone's
| hotspot feature to connect it (or download the maps in advance
| if you think about it).
|
| But that's still two devices instead of one, which ends up
| being more complicated, not less.
| jdlyga wrote:
| For me, having an iPhone helps. On Android, I'm always
| downloading new keyboards, launchers, and endlessly tweaking the
| device. There isn't a lot to customize on an iPhone, so I'm not
| distracted by tinkering, breaking things, and fixing them. I do
| that enough on my other devices, and it's not something I want in
| my pocket distracting me constantly. It's the same reason why I
| go with Gnome distros for a computer I'm trying to do work on (I
| am endlessly distracted by KDE's customizability).
| college_physics wrote:
| It takes only a tiny fraction of a smartphone's capabilities to
| make us dumb.
|
| The endless scrolling and liking on social (which is now a
| pandemic) could arguably be served by a much slimmed down device.
| NB: Maybe thats something Meta should build and offer "for free".
|
| I dont know how we could ever get immunized against big tech
| dumbness and start really using smartphones in smart ways. They
| pack exceptional hardware. Mine even has an FM radio (thats
| something to do with electromagnetic waves).
|
| Its just a matter of software. Which is a matter of mindsets,
| control and economics. I like to think that a society that
| manages to truly use smartphones as smart devices will get to the
| next level of civilization
| rhacker wrote:
| Smart "Phones" would have:
|
| Automatic Recording (of all calls) - with prompts optionally
| (consent), Speech to Text, Spam Protection, "Captchas for calls"
|
| Instead we got this:
|
| https://i.etsystatic.com/28431667/r/il/d1a61f/3334764950/il_...
|
| with a browser in it.
| nyx_land wrote:
| The problem with trying to replace a smartphone with a dumbphone
| is that most people (young people at least) don't use calling and
| texting anymore unless forced to. I'd rather have something in
| between a laptop and a smartphone that is designed to be
| comfortable for carrying around in a small bag or pocket, but
| that also has a physical keyboard and is designed to be used
| productively for programming or writing for example.
|
| As it stands, smartphones are the worst of both worlds though:
| the form factor of what is essentially a legacy communication
| device, but none of the human interfaces necessary to make it
| useful enough to really take advantage of all its computing power
| (and often also its software cripples the device unless you're
| running a custom android ROM). What people hate about smartphones
| isn't that they're constantly plugged in but that they have a
| device on them all the time that is basically designed to turn
| the user into the ideal consumer: a passive addict with no
| attention span. If it was more common to have access to portable
| hardware that is designed to empower users being creative and
| productive, maybe it'd be a different story.
|
| But then again, I think most human beings probably want exactly
| what they're getting with smartphones and are miserable and
| alienated at the human condition itself of being so susceptible
| to seeking out low effort short term dopamine feedback loops.
| thfuran wrote:
| >I'd rather have something in between a laptop and a smartphone
| that is designed to be comfortable for carrying around in a
| small bag or pocket, but that also has a physical keyboard and
| is designed to be used productively for programming or writing
| for example.
|
| Something like what? A small laptop is little more than a
| display attached to a thin keyboard. I'm not sure how you'd get
| something much smaller while retaining a physical keyboard and
| still being reasonably useable for programming.
| kibwen wrote:
| I recently "upgraded" to a new phone, not because I wanted to,
| but because my prior phone was too old to receive security
| updates. The new phone, despite being newer tech, is abjectly
| worse at being a usable device: the fingerprint is in a worse
| location and has terrible accuracy, scrolling or zooming anything
| is a stuttering nightmare, it's too heavy and wide to be
| comfortably used one-handed, and so on. It's so much worse it
| makes me not want to use it. And, ironically, being discouraged
| from using my phone has made me marginally happier throughout the
| day. So thanks, I guess, for making an inferior product??
| neogodless wrote:
| What research and shopping criteria should one employ to ensure
| they get an objectively worse phone?
| beebeepka wrote:
| This thread makes me feel like a geezer but I am not even that
| old. "Resisting to install / use apps" sounds alien to me.
|
| I feel society has moved on and we're pretty much expected to
| have these devices. I even bought one for my job because they
| require an auth and I have to verify its me again at random
| intervals. So secure, so authenticated. I hate it
| DerekBickerton wrote:
| It's not some burdensome 'quest' though. Just get a Nokia 105[0]
| which uses the Series 30[1] operating system and has no Internet
| connectivity. It comes preloaded with a few basic games so you
| can kill time waiting for things or pacify yourself in awkward
| social situations.
|
| [0] https://www.nokia.com/phones/en_int/nokia-105
|
| [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_30%2B
| dbalatero wrote:
| I had a flip phone the last year and switched to a Light Phone 2
| the other day after I dropped the flip phone and broke some
| internal connections. It's been great for my focus, information
| overload, and the minor inconveniences are, well, minor. The next
| OS is supposed to get calendars + 2-way sync, so between that and
| directions/music/podcasts, it's a pretty full featured device
| while still preventing a lot of mindless engagement.
|
| Occasionally I break out the iPhone for a Lyft ride to the
| airport or something, but beyond that there hasn't been much of a
| need.
| em500 wrote:
| Focusing on the phone seems like missing the mark. The addictive
| thing is not the phone, but the internet. Even with a dumbphone
| you can easily waste as much time on your laptop's web-browser
| (and people did: FB and Youtube were already big before the
| iPhone was a thing).
|
| Conversely, if you turn off data, there are not many
| possibilities to spend huge amounts of time on your phone. (And
| yes, there are still plenty of useful offline smartphone apps.)
| rr888 wrote:
| Slowing down internet to a crawl works for me too. Once I hit
| my data limit it runs at 128 kb/s which is perfect. I just wish
| it ran at that speed all the time.
| wwweston wrote:
| When I finally got a smart phone 5 years after the iPhone came
| out, one of the first things I tried to do was train myself by
| _not_ getting service on it for over 3 months. The idea was to
| make sure I had other kinds of content on it that weren 't
| update-hits; mostly eBooks and saved long-form articles, plus
| some map apps for navigation. So data engagement was limited to
| WiFi islands and focused on practical business.
|
| This was definitely only partially effective, probably because
| I already had bad habits from my laptop. OTOH, to this day I do
| have at least a rudimentary deeper reading/writing flow for my
| phone I can focus on without too much conscious effort, so it
| wasn't useless.
|
| My conclusion is that most of us probably would benefit from
| either intentional choices or self-imposed restrictions... but
| most of us could also probably benefit more from a combination
| of both.
| ignoramous wrote:
| > _My conclusion is that most of us probably would benefit
| from either intentional choices or self-imposed
| restrictions... but most of us could also probably benefit
| more from a combination of both._
|
| This sentence is a good tldr for the book, _Atomic Habits_.
| stagger87 wrote:
| It's not the bottle that's addictive, it's the alcohol inside.
| Just don't open the bottle and there are not many possibilities
| to drink!
| rhn_mk1 wrote:
| You make it sound as if alcohol was the only thing ever found
| in bottles.
| fleddr wrote:
| Definitely a key insight: every attempt to be less addicted to
| your smartphone will fail if you do not fill up that void of
| newly available time with something more productive, healthy,
| etc.
|
| The good news is that you don't need to set a very high bar for
| a better use of this free time. Read a book. Go on a small walk
| around the block. Take care of your garden, if you have one. Do
| simple chores. Do nothing at all. Almost anything is better
| than smartphone usage.
| [deleted]
| SoftTalker wrote:
| You don't need a dumb phone, you just need decide who's in
| charge. I used to want a dumb phone, but there are a few things
| (mainly maps/navigation) that I find genuinely useful that dumb
| phones can't do.
|
| So I decided that it's my phone and I'm the one who decides how
| to use it.
|
| I have a reasonably new iPhone. I spend maybe 15 minutes a day on
| it (excluding navigation), total.
|
| I have removed apps I don't use. I disabled Siri, FaceID, most
| notifications, and location is turned off unless I'm using maps.
| I have one page on my home screen and there are maybe a dozen
| apps on it (and that still includes a few I have never used so I
| could pare down further).
| throwaway4aday wrote:
| I'm glad you're able to resist temptation so well. For others
| it can be more of a problem. For some it is equivalent to an
| alcoholic carrying around a pint of vodka that also happens to
| make phone calls.
| hcal wrote:
| I've been using my Samsung smartwatch with LTE as a smartphone
| that's hard to abuse. Thursday through Sunday I only carry it and
| leave my "real" phone at home.
|
| It's pretty nice because I still have Bluetooth calls in my car
| and navigation in a pinch. I can still stream music and ask
| Google to look things up for me.
|
| Actual calls on the watch are fine, but I do keep a pair of
| bluetooth headphones on me so I don't have to take business calls
| on speakerphone.
|
| If texting is your addiction, technically this doesn't solve it
| but it doesn't increase the friction so maybe it's less of a
| temptation. I don't text that much so it's not a big deal to me.
| Doomscrolling is my downfall and fortunately not really doable on
| a watch.
| trekkie1024 wrote:
| Likewise, with an Apple Watch. Works great but only issue is
| the battery life < a day when it's being used that way.
| andrew-dc wrote:
| Oh man, I have been wondering about this experience myself -
| though if it would all work with no smartphone at all (I have
| been rolling with the LightPhone II for a few years now).
|
| It had seemed like stand-alone watches were nearly there, but
| not quite the last time I dug into it. But it works for you?
| ttthomas wrote:
| I too have quested for a Dumber Phone. As an easily distracted
| engineer who values my time, I enjoy being on a dumb device,
| particularly one without Maps. Things hat I've tried:
| - Punkt MP02 (Pigeon): small black & white Android phone with a
| non-standard launcher. Doesn't support MMS on Google Fi, which is
| needed to participate with friends & family (USA), so it sits on
| a shelf. - Unihertz Atom: tiny Android phone, storage
| chip began dying within 3 months. Supports MMS, but my previous
| company's MDM locked it out due to a lack of recent security
| updates and their phone plan required a login to receive MMS!
|
| I also looked into the Hisense e-Ink phones (Android), but they
| are hacky to use this it in the USA (lack of frequencies & Google
| Play). In eventually realized that I already had perfectly good
| hardware (Pixel 4) that I could turn into a dumb-phone without
| generating more e-waste. I began compiling my own locked-down
| distro, but in the end I just wrote a shell script to turn an
| Android phone into a dumb phone:
| https://github.com/tstromberg/quietude. For example:
| - For a truly "dumb" phone: `quietude.sh disable all` -
| Disable distractions but keep the app store: `quietude.sh disable
| distractions`
|
| The key here is that apps are disabled in a way which can only be
| enabled again by plugging the phone in with a USB cable. This
| keeps me from mindlessly re-enabling apps when I am bored in line
| somewhere. I also get to keep PagerDuty, Plugshare, Lyft, Google
| Photos, and whatever other apps I find convenient to have
| available.
| dbalatero wrote:
| I'm a Light Phone user, but I really like the look of your
| quietude script. It seems like a really flexible option.
| krunck wrote:
| I've got a Punkt MP01. I love it. I charge it every two weeks.
| It's durable. And it works. There is a problem with it not
| working with group SMS. The MP02(current version) fixes this I
| think.
| extr0pian wrote:
| I had researched dumb phones recently only to learn that the two
| most important functions of a smartphone (for me) is the GPS and
| having a decent camera, and these things are either crippled or
| missing entirely from dumb phones. It's simply easier to dumb
| down your existing smartphone, especially if you have an Android
| phone.
|
| In my case, I have a 2017 Pixel 2 XL running LineageOS, with a
| text only home screen launcher (OLauncher). I only have SMS,
| phone/contacts, camera, open street maps, KOReader, Music,
| Podcasts, Notes, and Calculator. That's it. Everything else has
| been purged or disabled, including the web browser, via ADB.
|
| I don't really use it all unless I'm driving. I wrote about my
| setup here: https://chuck.is/phone
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| Being about to use various instant messaging platforms,
| especially WhatsApp, is also nice.
| extr0pian wrote:
| I had Signal installed for a while, but ultimately removed it
| because it's mostly friends sending stupid memes, breaking
| whatever I was concentrating on seemingly at random. I do
| have it running on my laptop.
| tut-urut-utut wrote:
| You know you can mute notifications and ignore until you
| decide to look into it?
| gog wrote:
| Nokia has a model that works with WhatsApp.
| MSFT_Edging wrote:
| I'm in a similar boat. GPS, Camera, but also Telegram and a
| basic browser for reference.
|
| Dumbing down a smart phone doesn't fix the size and
| delicateness of the device either. I essentially want a tiny
| durable smartphone, ie size of an iPhone 3g.
|
| My biggest thing is I hate how important this device is while
| also being unwieldy and easy to break. The only entertainment I
| use on my phone is twitter and even then I find it easy to stop
| scrolling.
|
| I want the abilities of a smart phone, but something I can keep
| on me without worrying about it, like wearing a watch or how I
| can throw around my wallet.
| trekkie1024 wrote:
| Try a smartwatch with cellular connectivity?
| letmeinhere wrote:
| I'll have to check out OLauncher. I use and adore another open
| source text launcher: KISS
| red-iron-pine wrote:
| Literally tried to upgrade my Pixel 2 XL to Lineage and it
| failed repeatedly. Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable that's
| the problem. Sigh. Same computer didn't have issues flashing
| old Galaxy and Nexus phones.
|
| Bought a dumb phone but found it lacking for your exact reasons
| -- no GPS, crappy camera, and texting using the number pad was
| tedious as all hell.
|
| Gave up, got a Pixel 7, might think about flashing it.
| extr0pian wrote:
| > Literally tried to upgrade my Pixel 2 XL to Lineage and it
| failed repeatedly. Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable
| that's the problem.
|
| I recently started having issues with the data functionality
| of the port. I can't get ADB to run at all, it will only
| charge. The power button also doesn't work so I've had to set
| it to shut off the screen by holding down the "Recents"
| button.
|
| > Bought a dumb phone but found it lacking for your exact
| reasons
|
| I like the idea of dumb phones, but I don't want to have to
| buy separate things like a digital camera, GPS, mp3 player,
| etc. Seems like it's just adding more complexity.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| > Reddit says, no joke, it's the cable that's the problem.
|
| Not surprising. My experience across a few different Android
| devices over the years is just about all USB-related
| functionality is a flaky mess, and that includes things like
| ADB and installing new ROMs. _How_ it 's flaky varies from
| device to device which makes it extra fun.
| kfarr wrote:
| Can confirm with Android phones and vr headsets that ADB
| access can definitely be affected by choice of cable. Talk
| about face palm, but it is what it us
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| Have you looked into any of the Jolla devices? You can get a
| Sony Experia phone with Linux SailfishOS preinstalled on it for
| less than $500:
|
| https://buy.jolla-devices.com/
|
| Or even installing CalyxOS? You can get a Pixel 5a 5G phone
| (selling on ebay for under $200) and then install CalyxOS on
| it.
|
| https://calyxos.org/
|
| I'm going to grab one of the Jolla devices and give it a test
| drive next month. I think there's decent alternative out there
| where you can still maintain your privacy without having to
| step all the way down to a "dumb phone".
| stonogo wrote:
| I'm sorry, but I don't understand your first sentence. You
| researched dumbphones and discovered they're not smartphones?
| I'm struggling to understand what you thought you were going to
| find.
| resfirestar wrote:
| Feature phones in the later '00s usually had cameras, it's
| not a feature that started with smartphones.
| marttt wrote:
| I've intentionally never owned a smartphone. Dumb phones
| abandoned by my family have been serving me very well for years
| (strategy: use them until they stop working; get next one;
| repeat).
|
| My daily work is in forestry, as a brush cutter -- occasionally,
| GPS would be necessary (unavoidable even). For 95% of the cases,
| though, I've found a workaround by postponing the map-related
| tasks (e.g. making sure I understand the borders of a particular
| forest subcompartment correctly) to the next day and hand-drawing
| the shape of the subcompartment from an online map to a piece of
| paper. With the drawing in hand, I can usually accurately confirm
| the borders by visual observation. Once more, this probably only
| works for simple blue collars, not for guys that need to do more
| on-site planning.
|
| Other than that, I occasionally miss a tolerable camera (for
| digitizing expenditure checks) and QR code reading ability.
|
| All in all, living with old dumb phone is fun. Zero cost if you
| break it or ruin it in the forest (mud!). I hate my current
| Nokia, though -- but can't ditch it because _it still works_ ,
| lol. I still miss my Nokia 3310 (the original one), which I used
| every day for 12(!) years in a row, starting in around 2001 as a
| high school student and finally letting it go in around 2013 when
| I was a young father. It was one hell of a phone.
|
| My current favorite oldscool dumb phones are the "senior phones"
| with huge buttons. This ZTE s202 was really enjoyable to use
| (belonged to my grandpa), and the no-bs design somehow feels
| really elegant:
| https://i.hinnavaatlus.ee/p/1200/99/43/S20220must__6ee8.jpg
| superkuh wrote:
| I use a Nokia 6030 phone; the old indestructible brick one. It
| still works where I am. But I don't use it because I want to get
| away from the internet. I just don't use smart phones because
| they're terrible computers. I use a computer for computing, a GPS
| for navigation, and a camera for photos. And each of these
| devices is better at it's job with fewer downsides than any
| general purpose device.
|
| Mostly the "smart phones/internet/etc" are ruining society
| reaction is the same type of thing as the reactions to the
| introduction to newspapers/books, electricity, radio, television,
| etc. These were all destroying society and addicting the youth.
| But they aren't addictive. The only existing medically recognized
| behavioral addiction (ie, not a real addiction like to a drug
| like methamphetamine) is "gambling disorder".
| xcambar wrote:
| > Disclosure: Every [the website every.to] co-founder and CEO Dan
| Shipper is an investor in Light.
|
| I do appreciate the disclosure.
| yadoomerta wrote:
| idk why you're being downvoted, it did read like an insidious
| content marketing piece. At least there was a disclosure.
|
| With that said, I've been trying to lock down my smartphone to
| offline-only apps + text + calls, totally agree with the
| mission, I've felt so much more distractable of late
| patchorang wrote:
| I've posted this here before, but I've figured out a way that
| makes an iPhone work as a semi-smart phone for me.
|
| I delete all app that I waste time in, but keep one that are
| useful. (I won't blow two hours scrolling Lyft, and it's very
| helpful sometimes) I then set screentime permissions to block
| websites I don't want to use (like reddit), and prevent app
| downloads. I set a screentime password and give it to my partner.
|
| This way I get all the "benefits" of a smartphone with none of
| the scrolling and time wasting. It's also very easy to switch it
| back to a full smartphone, get the password from my partner and
| turn off screentime. I'll do this when I travel internationally
| for work.
|
| Hope this setup helps some others.
| aag2113 wrote:
| How do you manage app updates?
|
| I ask because I've been trying to make this system work for me,
| but find that the app update flow (partner unlocks phone ->
| update apps -> partner locks phone) always breaks and I end up
| with an unrestricted phone.
|
| The fact that you can't allow updates while also not allowing
| installation of new apps is a huge blocker here for me.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| This reminds me of when my dad used to ask my mother to hide
| the peanut butter so he couldn't find it. He was still fat, so
| clearly that wasn't a perfect solution.
| googlryas wrote:
| Maybe he would have been really fat if he didn't hide it
| danfolkes wrote:
| I did the same thing this New Years. Blocked email, safari, all
| non-important applications. Kept things like: message, fb
| messenger, fitbit, camera, etc.
|
| If I really need to know the answer to something, I will ask
| Siri. And most things I just add to my to-do list for looking
| up the information later.
|
| It's been great!
| giantrobot wrote:
| I don't use many apps outside a browser, e-mail, and text. Two
| things that help me are I leave my phone on silent all the time
| and I disable all notifications. I can't stand notifications. I
| don't need them. I'm not 911, no one is contacting me with a
| life threatening emergency, I'll get back to their call or text
| whenever.
|
| I love having a smartphone because it's a cybernetic appliance.
| It's awesome. I just don't need it constantly occupying my
| attention. It's annoying how many apps, even system ones, that
| want to show notifications all the time. I wish iOS supported
| an affirmative toggle, let me disable all notifications by
| default and then let me turn them on one by one. Do not disturb
| by default and let me affirmatively enable "ok to disturb". I
| filed ERs to that effect when I was at Apple but I'm sure they
| went to the Future/NTBF black hole.
| nlavezzo wrote:
| I've done this in the past too and it works. Right now though I
| have it set so that I know the passcode to unlock it all, but
| that small amount of pain to go and unlock it is enough to make
| me pause and think about whether I actually do need to check
| the news, etc. Very rarely is the answer yes, but when I do
| need an actual smart phone (confirm a ticket on some random
| website for example) it's nice to have the ability to do so.
| Just have to have the discipline to lock it back down!
| jihadjihad wrote:
| Not sure if it's a typo but how in the world would a person
| spend 2 hours "scrolling Lyft"?
| dbalatero wrote:
| Re-read the comment, they said they are _keeping_ Lyft
| because there's no way to doomscroll it for 2 hours.
| aradox66 wrote:
| Their point is that you can't, there's basically no way for
| it to be entertaining, so it's a safe app to keep available
| if you're prone to waste time scrolling.
| procinct wrote:
| They're saying they don't need to worry about having lyft on
| their phone because they aren't going to spend hours
| scrolling it.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-01-17 23:00 UTC)