[HN Gopher] New Sony Walkman music player
___________________________________________________________________
New Sony Walkman music player
Author : rcarmo
Score : 288 points
Date : 2023-01-14 10:12 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| racl101 wrote:
| Thank you Sony.
|
| I would so buy a standalone music player with buttons and OMG
| .... a motherfucking 3.5mm headphone jack.
|
| So simple.
|
| I don't get how removing essential things became "progress" and
| demanded "courage" from the consumer to accept.
| dotancohen wrote:
| This device has all the specs that I want _for a phone_.
| Seriously, I would love a music player with a phone, not a phone
| with a music player. They do need to increase the storage, then
| add a SIM card and this thing would fly off the shelves.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| I don't understand why these products still exist.
|
| The audio out of my iPhone with good headphones is excellent.
| It's certainly the greatest portable audio solution I've had in
| my lifetime. Not needing another device is a real boon for me, so
| I have a hard time understanding why you'd choose a single-
| purpose player in 2023.
| geoffeg wrote:
| I think it's for people that have higher impedance headphones
| or just want a more audiophile-focused experience (hardware
| playback controls, a dedicated device, etc).
| zwirbl wrote:
| Having a specialized device is a real boon to others. Also I'd
| expect Sony to use great DACs
| mgkimsal wrote:
| you want to have... just music? If this gets lost, you don't
| have to worry about identity theft, bank/financial compromise,
| etc. Yes, security on modern smartphones is... pretty strong,
| but it's also a target.
| vanilla_nut wrote:
| > The audio out of my iPhone with good headphones is excellent.
|
| Unless you're using a no-longer-supported older iPhone, you
| don't have an aux jack. Given the ongoing ubiquity of aux
| cables in cars, homes, planes, etc. and the ongoing
| unreliability and low quality of bluetooth headphones, I'm not
| sure you can call the audio out "excellent." I'm sure it works
| for many use cases. When you use an external DAC, I'm sure it's
| even great.
|
| But considering the fact that Apple doesn't even support hifi
| codecs over Bluetooth, it might be that you just have a simple
| use case for audio. I know that between the car and my home
| speaker system, I couldn't live without an aux jack.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| I am a lifelong audio nut, and I suffer from Headphone
| Acquisition Disorder.
|
| The sound I get from my Airpods Max paired to my iPhone is
| easily as good as I get from the Sennheisers I have to plug
| into a headphone amp to use. So no, the idea that all
| Bluetooth is "unreliable and low quality" is not a true
| statement.
|
| I don't use an Aux jack anywhere anymore. My car has Carplay.
| I don't use wired headphones anymore, because I haven't been
| able to hear a justifiable difference.
|
| My guess is that most people who whine about things like
| "hifi codecs over Bluetooth" wouldn't be able to reliably
| choose the audio stack they think of as superior in a blind
| test.
| vanilla_nut wrote:
| As I said -- Bluetooth works fine for many people. But it
| does not cover 100% of the aux jack use case.
|
| I'm glad it works for you. But it doesn't work for me, or
| everyone else. Think of people with older cars that only
| have an aux jack. Or who live in apartments with lots of
| interference on Bluetooth's limited channels. Or coworkers
| subjected to awful bluetooth earbud microphone quality. Or
| the million other use cases where bluetooth falls short.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| You've moved the goal posts. First, it was "Bluetooth
| sucks generally" and now it's "Bluetooth might not always
| be an option for various corner-case reasons."
|
| Interference I suppose exists, but I live in an urban
| area with close neighbors and it's never come up. Nor has
| it come up on planes, or in other public areas I've been
| in with many Bluetooth users, so I guess I'll have to
| take your word for it.
|
| I dunno anything about "awful Bluetooth mic quality." I
| prefer to do calls at my desk with a wired headset, but
| I'm not always there, and folks generally seem to think
| my AirPods sound fine. I know for a fact that many of my
| customer parties are using AirPods, and they sound fine
| to me, too --- better than any number of crappy wired
| headsets I also see in use on calls, for sure.
|
| I recently bought an audio setup for my motorcycle
| helmet, which is of course Bluetooth; my wife reports
| that my voice is clear and clean from there at any speed
| below about 35MPH, at which point wind noise becomes an
| apparently insurmountable problem.
|
| Bluetooth for audio is great. It sounds awesome with
| decent gear -- far better than we got 15 years ago with
| wired buds, and (with good headphones) easily as good as
| the fancy needs-an-amp headphones I have around.
| Declaring that Bluetooth headphones are, as a class,
| unreliable and of low quality (as you did above) suggests
| you to have an axe to grind about Bluetooth, but it's an
| axe without any substance.
|
| This is entirely separate from the set of corner cases
| where Bluetooth isn't viable, such as in an old car with
| no such connectivity. But that's not a problem with
| Bluetooth itself, and doesn't justify claiming Bluetooth
| is universally crappy.
| rektide wrote:
| I wish they'd make phones with profiles more like this. 3.6",
| nice tactile controls.
|
| Even if it has relatively short 16hr battery life, I'm fine, if
| it can take a 25W charge. A passable camera also feels essential.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| The Unihertz Jelly 2 has everything except the cameras are
| arguably not passable. They are like 2010 Android phone level
| quality at best.
| moondowner wrote:
| I'm pretty happy with the Hidizs AP80 PRO-X (priced just under
| $200), but the Walkman devices are the endgame.
| miklosz wrote:
| Been thinking about something like this but in the end I don't
| want trouble of additional device to take care of.
|
| Tried couple of off-line music players for iOS, but was not
| really happy with the experience so far.
|
| Is anyone using an offline mp3/flac player app for iOS (ideally
| both iPhone and iPad and supporting Apple Watch) where I can
| upload files (ideally from my NAS)? Paid app is fine, but
| subscription is not.
| 5amdotis wrote:
| I am still using my iPod classic 6th gen 160 GB. Almost everyday.
| It is wonderful to have a single purpose device for listing to
| music, podcasts, or audiobooks.
| brundolf wrote:
| It's bizarre to only have 32GB/64GB storage. I remember getting a
| dedicated music player with 80GB in _2008_. Bulk storage seems
| like it would be one of the few good ways to differentiate these
| from a smartphone
|
| Maybe I'm just not the target market. They must be doing
| something right because Hideo Kojima uses one (and frequently
| tweets pictures of it):
| https://twitter.com/hideo_kojima_en/status/16147460932707409...
| em500 wrote:
| You can add a 512GB micro-SD for $50.
| brundolf wrote:
| The transfer speeds wouldn't be as good as a built-in SSD
| though, right? Maybe that's just not a big enough deal to
| matter?
| Tams80 wrote:
| It's for playing audio mate, not playing games.
|
| Sure, loading a large FLAC library onto a microSD will
| initially take longer, but the thing only needs to be done
| once, and many audio enthusiastsnwill already have microSD
| cards with it on.
| kramerger wrote:
| Why would it matter for audio?
| brundolf wrote:
| If you're moving a terabyte of music to the device from
| your computer where it lives, that could matter
| mrbungie wrote:
| In this case storage should be mainly used for music. I
| don't think an SSD is going to make a big difference,
| assuming Sony's software supports playing from SD cards.
| nomorewords wrote:
| I think that's not the point. They are making a product
| seemingly targeted at audiophiles and they don't provide
| enough storage (for the amount of music an audiophile might
| have), while showing off some obscure features like the gold
| plated components
| bakugo wrote:
| It doesn't "provide enough storage" because it's not
| supposed to provide storage. You're supposed to provide
| your own storage, whatever amount you see fit, and you are
| able to upgrade it at any time.
|
| I know people nowadays are used to not having any control
| over their storage and simply throwing their device in the
| trash and buying a new one every few years when it's no
| longer enough, but it wasn't like this in the past.
| [deleted]
| izacus wrote:
| It has an SD card slot for unlimited storage practically,
| what are you complaining about?
| tempestn wrote:
| Who IS the target market for something like this? It's almost
| as big as a phone, and costs as much as many phones... why
| would anyone use this instead of their phone? I guess maybe if
| you have a giant phablet and want something more portable (or
| more disposable, but it's still $400) for workouts or that kind
| of thing? Maybe if you're addicted to social media and so the
| fact that it can't do anything besides play music is a feature?
| pleb_nz wrote:
| I often leave my phone at home after hours and on the
| weekend. This is a perfect solution.
| brundolf wrote:
| I'm sure this appeals to a market segment:
|
| > Anyway, back to this $800 model. Unlike regular phone
| equipment, this has a proper audio amplifier with big, beefy
| capacitors to power the analog audio output. That makes it
| much bigger than the A300, at 72.6x132 mm and a whopping 17
| mm thick. It also has two audio outs: a standard 3.5 mm
| headphone jack and a 4.4 mm "balanced" audio jack, which is
| used by some high-end audio equipment.
|
| It just feels weird to cheap out on storage, of all things,
| on an $800 device in 2023
| tempestn wrote:
| Yeah, I get the audiophile one. (I mean, I don't get it
| really, but I get that there are people who do.) But the
| cheaper (but still expensive) one didn't seem to offer
| much. As many people mentioned though, battery life is a
| compelling one.
| patates wrote:
| > the fact that it can't do anything besides play music is a
| feature?
|
| It seems to not have a modem but it does have the play store
| and wi-fi, so...
| bakugo wrote:
| The target market is people who want a device with a
| headphone jack, an SD card slot and a good DAC. The number of
| phones that include these features nowadays is small.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Me actually.
|
| I finally made the switch to a phone without headphone jack
| last year. I like the phone, but the pretty expensive
| bluetooth headphones I tried don't sound as great as my
| beaten year old wired ones.
|
| There's many places where I don't care about having a
| dangling wire: at home watching tv/movies, while working at
| my desk, or in public libraries for instance.
|
| A small audio player that work with my wired headphones would
| be workable, I l'm seriously thinking about it if moving
| music in and out is easy enough.
| mike_d wrote:
| > Who IS the target market for something like this?
|
| Some people work in environments where you can't have "smart"
| devices. I could see this squeaking by (for example you can
| have some single purpose devices like Garmin watches, but not
| Apple watches with wifi and cellular).
|
| It might be good for airplanes too if you want something to
| drive your headphones without draining your battery, but I
| guess in-seat power has kinda solved that already.
| nmfisher wrote:
| I don't have this exact model, but I did have two earlier
| iterations of the Walkman which I liked for three reasons: 1)
| it's a lot lighter than a phone, so convenient to take
| running 2) the battery lasts days (if not weeks) rather than
| a single day 3) it has a wired headphone jack, so I don't
| have to use Bluetooth earbuds that regularly fall out or
| disconnect.
|
| I don't recall either model being that expensive though.
| prmoustache wrote:
| That thing is running android. The battery usage on android
| phone is based on network access. If you install as many
| apps as you do on this walkman than on a regular mobile
| phone, it won't last better. Also if like me you don't
| install any social media app or anything that connect on a
| regular basis to some service and play music stored locally
| on your sdcard your smartphone will also last for days.
|
| I can understand wanting to use an affordable tiny ipad
| nano like device instead of a smartphone. But I don't
| understand this, being 3 times more expensive than a decent
| entry level smartphone unless you want to use it with high
| quality over the ears noise cancelling headphones. The
| physical buttons do not even seem to be ergonomically
| placed.
| Tams80 wrote:
| Why would you install as many apps as a smartphone?
|
| Hell, for many people why would they even have wi-fi on?
| prmoustache wrote:
| What I meant is it is not the device but the usage that
| makes the battery last or not and it is fairly easy to
| have a smartphone running for days.
| tempestn wrote:
| Good points. The battery thing seems like a big one for
| someone who travels a lot especially. Headphone jack is
| nice, but I find a USB adapter works fine when I want to
| use wired headphones with my phone. Size/weight probably
| depends on the size of your phone. I tend to prefer smaller
| phones, so to me most of what people use today is a giant
| "phablet".
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| > Who IS the target market for something like this? It's
| almost as big as a phone, and costs as much as many phones...
|
| Me, but I aint paying $800 for it (if I understood the
| article correctly).
|
| Give me a walkman made specifically for listening to music
| with 250GB+ and without all the pain to move music onto and
| off of the device and can last _weeks_ on a single charge
| with regular use and I would purchase the shit out of it.
|
| I feel like a lot of people don't realize just how leashed
| they are with modern phones. My favorite phone ever is an old
| Palm phone that I still have to this day because I refuse to
| throw it away. It's smaller than the original SE, far
| lighter, and could last up to two weeks on a single charge.
| Contrast that with the 3rd gen SE I have now and I'd give it
| up in a heartbeat if something like that Palm arrived.
|
| But it won't, so moving the music playing experience off of
| the phone is a good step to loosening that leash.
| Narishma wrote:
| > Me, but I aint paying $800 for it (if I understood the
| article correctly).
|
| That's the pro model. The consumer version is half that.
| ghusto wrote:
| Potentially me, but this time not.
|
| My criteria is heavy on "do one thing well". I want something
| without internet, "apps", a convoluted OS, and basically all
| the other things that make phones a Swiss army knife.
|
| Those things aren't free, they come with a cost which I'm not
| willing to pay; attention, bugs, distraction-as-a-service.
| Also, I'm not 100% on this because I haven't tested it, but I
| think the output I get from FLAC files on my music device is
| better than my phone.
|
| Yes, I'm also the type who enjoys a separate camera.
|
| There's a piece of mind to dedicated devices I was robbed of
| for a while with the the phone.
|
| Now having said all this, the real answer to your question
| is; nobody, because this device seems to be a phone :/
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| > the real answer to your question is; nobody, because this
| device seems to be a phone
|
| Well said, that's _exactly_ how I feel. I would 100%
| purchase a dedicated music device, but it can't be a
| glorified phone (I don't even like the smartscreen in the
| article) with a phones problems.
| zbuf wrote:
| > real answer to your question is; nobody, because this
| device seems to be a phone :/
|
| The terrible error here is including the Android home
| screen in the marketing materials.
|
| By all means base it on Android, but I never want to see
| anything like that on a "stand alone" device. Eliminating
| any generic UI should have been a priority from the go
| because it completely changes the sentiment around the
| device.
| Tams80 wrote:
| You could just... I don't know... not leave the Walkman
| app and turn off the wi-fi.
| Ferrotin wrote:
| That's for the OS and apps. Every user is going to use the SD
| card anyway, and 256GB or 512GB of good quality storage would
| be wasted on music.
| [deleted]
| jamjamjam27 wrote:
| But where do you get legal flacs from for a price comparable to
| what one would pay for a service like spotify, qobuz or tidal?
| Long gone are the days I could exchange them with friends as none
| of them own any anymore...
| eiiot wrote:
| Can anyone really name a reason why you would need a standalone
| MP3 player in 2023? With services like Tidal or even just Spotify
| it seems like there are so many downsides, with little to no
| benefits. (Other than maybe owning your own physical music as
| opposed to relying on a streaming service?)
| Tams80 wrote:
| I don't want to be connected to the Internet all the time, yet
| still listen to music? Is that not a good enough reason?
|
| And contrary to what many seem to think, cellular data is not
| always available and data caps are still a thing.
|
| If I sound pissed off, that's because I am. I've seen an ever
| increasing number of comments like yours that just dismiss
| things because they don't see the value to them. They then
| phrase their dismissal as an innocent question (which,
| honestly, comes across as very condescending).
| michaeltimo wrote:
| I understand your point, but a question will be why not just
| loading your smartphone with mp3 files. In this case, you
| don't need internet connection (if this is the only the
| reason) and you don't need a separate device.
| 112233 wrote:
| I need a standalone music player so that an old person with
| severe arthritis and poor vision can listen to music and
| audiobooks.
|
| These devices are not it.
| nathias wrote:
| not everyone uses those services
| jccalhoun wrote:
| I'm cheap and don't pay for an unlimited data plan/
| gppk wrote:
| My wife has decades of music downloaded from CDs etc. It's just
| the music she likes, no ads/distractions/faffing about with
| networks etc. For her commute it works great to have just an
| MP3 player.
|
| She doesn't want to listen to other music, she likes what she
| knows, so the benefit of recommendations etc aren't of interest
| either.
|
| Just one data point for your question :)
| MikusR wrote:
| There are these things, smartphones or something like that,
| that apparently almost everyone has, that can do that.
| DocTomoe wrote:
| Some people prefer a device that has real, physical buttons
| and is not permanently at risk of shattering after being
| dropped (the use case being to listen to music while on the
| go...)
| [deleted]
| antihero wrote:
| For personal music collection I've found using navidrome (and
| subsonic before that) to be a much nicer solution than having
| a separate player.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| Some people want to avoid futzing with tech for some things
| to whatever extent they can avoid it. Even some people
| otherwise immersed in tech.
| didntreadarticl wrote:
| I have an Oakcastle MP200, it cost PS20, is tiny and weights
| nothing. I can use the controls without looking at the screen.
| Battery lasts seemingly forever. I can take it to the gym, clip
| it onto my clothes and listen to music without being
| interrupted by phone notifications and without having to take
| my phone with me.
|
| Makes me nostalgic for the pre-smartphone era
| ThinkingGuy wrote:
| I don't own a smartphone, but I'd like to be able to put on
| headphones and listen to music (from the vast collection on my
| computer) when I'm traveling, driving, or doing chores.
| Xelbair wrote:
| You already answered your own question, but it's mostly related
| to higher audio quality and owning your own music, while not
| being bothered by availability of internet.
| deniscepko2 wrote:
| A lot of comments about the internet availability. Living in
| Northern Europe - never a problem. And as for lets say a
| flight, you can download spotify music. Audio quality i do
| agree that spotify kinda sucks
| Mashimo wrote:
| > Living in Northern Europe > internet availability
|
| Implying that Germany is not part of Northern Europe.
| mongol wrote:
| I thought Germany was central Europe
| MikusR wrote:
| You don't need special standalone devices for that. Any
| Android phone has that. Is it impossible to listen to your
| own audio without internet on iPhones?
| bebna wrote:
| The way you can't understand that, is the same way I can't
| understand why people would listen to Spotify.
| [deleted]
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| Sure.
|
| - I can control it completely without looking at a screen.
|
| - It's easier to put my mp3s on there than it is to do that on
| a phone.
|
| - The battery lasts a lot longer than a phone
|
| - It has a headphone jack
|
| - No crappy software needed, it's just a USB drive as far as my
| computer is concerned.
| MikusR wrote:
| > It's easier to put my mp3s on there than it is to do that
| on a phone. > No crappy software needed, it's just a USB
| drive as far as my computer is concerned.
|
| I understand that apple device users live in their special
| world. But every android phone does this.
| LAC-Tech wrote:
| Does it? I have an android phone, but it's obviously been
| so long since I tried to put music on it I can't remember.
| MikusR wrote:
| You plug it in and copy what you want.
| michalstanko wrote:
| Features like auto-playing next song that
| Spotify/YouTube/whoever "thinks" I "might" like after a
| playlist finished playing is driving me mad. (Yes, I know it
| can be turned off, but it's on by default. Which reminds me,
| despite being a subscriber, I don't really like Spotify's UI on
| mobile, nor on the desktop.)
| jbay808 wrote:
| - Listening to music without needing a web connection
|
| - Very light and easy to keep in a pocket or backpack so I have
| it with me when I'm out, or to listen to while I cook / do
| hardware repairs
|
| - No distractions
|
| - Physical buttons means I can replay or skip tracks without
| looking at it
|
| - Doesn't drain the battery of my smartphone; doesn't need
| recharging each week
|
| - Has a real working FM radio in it
|
| - Music on my SD card doesn't disappear
|
| - Doesn't need security updates
|
| - Bought it in 2013 and it still works
| cube00 wrote:
| Considering this new one has Android on it, your point about
| not needing security updates doesn't hold. If Sony is as
| aggressive as Google is, three years you'll have a malware
| magnet in addition to your smart phone.
| Tams80 wrote:
| Malware from where?
|
| If you're legally buying music, not there. All the apps for
| mauic playback, streaming, etc. come from the Google Play
| Store, and there are very few that someone who buys one of
| these would need anyway.
|
| I'd venture many of these will spend most of their
| existence with wi-fi turned off, as it's a battery hog.
| chongli wrote:
| Working out. Who wants to exercise while carrying a giant phone
| around with them? A tiny mp3 player is so much better for this!
| DanTheManPR wrote:
| I hang on to my old iPod shuffles and nanos with clips on
| them, and have paid to get them refurbed. It's just so easy
| to clip them onto my shirt and go. The alternative is...
| what, to put my gigantic phablet phone in the small pocket of
| my running shorts?
|
| I shouldn't complain too much, since there actually are a
| fair number of modern small dedicated mp3 players that can
| clip on to your shirt (although none of them that I know of
| are _quite_ as unobtrusive and lightweight as a 2nd gen iPod
| shuffle).
| SomeoneOnTheWeb wrote:
| The very main reason is to have a higher quality audio output.
| Instead of having a shitty jack a device like this will have a
| very good DAC & amp, sometimes even a bi-DAC and bi-amp, and
| also a lot more power to handle bigger headphones.
|
| Globally if you just have a basic pair of headphones /
| earphones you're better off having a USB-C <=> Jack adapter or
| a simple bluetooth receiver, but for cases where you want to
| have a really higher quality source then these will do
| incredibly well.
| Joeri wrote:
| For really high quality audio you pretty much need high
| impedance headphones, and I don't think these walkmen support
| those. I'm not convinced the new walkman sounds better than
| an iphone, but I'd be interested in a blind comparison test.
| antihero wrote:
| Pray tell why high impedance makes sound better quality?
| From what I gather studio headphones have higher impedance
| due to sharing a signal between lots of people, not for
| quality reasons.
| numpad0 wrote:
| I don't know how to read specs for these, but this NW-ZX707
| model supports up to 50mW/ch for 3.5mm stereo and 230mW/ch
| @ 16 ohms for balanced output - yes it has both 3.5mm
| unbalanced and 4.4mm balanced TRRS on the device.
| autoexec wrote:
| I got one specifically because I love the offline nature of the
| device. I don't use streaming, and I don't want ads or my
| device going out to the internet and giving 3rd parties a list
| of what I listen to and when either.
|
| I also like the idea of a device that does one thing but does
| it well, unlike a cell phone that tries to be everything for
| everyone. With a dedicated music player there's no distraction.
| No notifications, no texts, no calls, no games, no internet. A
| good music player does everything you need but stays out of
| your way. A cell phone is designed to demand your attention as
| often as possible and hold onto it for as long as possible.
| TurboHaskal wrote:
| Mostly power. Phones just don't offer enough to drive demanding
| headphones or earphones.
|
| There are dongles to address this issue, but they can drain the
| battery pretty fast. I don't want to drain my phone battery
| just because I'm listening to music.
|
| If you have an iOS device, having offline music has plenty of
| limitations. It takes a ton of space that I'd rather save for
| pictures, videos and apps. And you have to sync your phone with
| a MacBook which is a hassle if you have more than one.
| antihero wrote:
| If you're serious about quality you'll use a portable
| headphone amp anyway...
| xd1936 wrote:
| Why have an outdoor grill when you have a stove? Sometimes some
| things are better at specialized tasks than other things are.
| rtpg wrote:
| A standalone MP3 player will tend to have a better interface
| that is much more responsive. Will be much easier to queue up
| certain kinds of things with a San Disk Clip Sport than an
| iPhone. Even just unlocking the phone is a whole thing!
|
| The general thing of futzing around with a home screen,
| switching apps, having notifications?? When sometimes you just
| want an mp3 player.
|
| This is my main frustration with these Sony walkmans, is that
| I'll still have to pay the UI friction cost from it running
| Android. Would love a device that really sticks to playing
| music... but I get that that is very hard since you lose
| streaming optionality.
| kleiba wrote:
| I don't use smart phones because I don't like my every step to
| be tracked and recorded for an extended period of time by some
| company.
| dagw wrote:
| _you would need a standalone MP3 player in 2023?_
|
| Children. I wanted my daughter to be able to listen to music
| and audio books, I didn't want to buy her a smart phone. Plus
| you can buy a good enough one for $30-40, so it's not as big a
| deal if they lose or break it.
|
| I've also considered getting a cheap one with bluetooth for
| kayaking, so that I can listen to music without having to worry
| about my phone getting water damaged.
| Johnny555 wrote:
| It might be nice for the office. I don't want to run personal
| streaming software or load my personal mp3s on my work laptop,
| and I don't want to forget my phone on my desk (again) because
| I was using it as a media player.
|
| But $400 is more than I'd want to pay for it.
| urbandw311er wrote:
| Control. Spotify uses dark UX patterns to prevent me curating
| and exploring a library of Music that I love, instead trying to
| push artists on me that line their own pockets.
| antihero wrote:
| Self-hosted streaming (with downloads) is the way forward.
| hexfish wrote:
| which is unfortunately becoming harder and harder with
| artists only releasing their media through DRM-locked
| platforms like Spotify/not on physical media that can be
| ripped/bandcamp.
| [deleted]
| lofaszvanitt wrote:
| The ideal mp3 player is
|
| - small, fits in your palm,
|
| - plays flac, wav, mp3, midi, and other obscure formats,
|
| - easy to upload/download files, pops up as an usb drive when
| plugged into a pc,
|
| - good sound output (I can sacrifice size for sound quality),
|
| - jack/bluetooth output,
|
| - sd/microsd card support,
|
| - cheap,
|
| - +1 optional fm/dap+? receiver.
|
| I once bought a Sony Xperia mobile phone. It had all kinds of
| issues. Microphones were trash, the noise suppression was
| terrible, sometimes you couldn't hear the other party, the back
| glass shattered multiple times while sitting on the desk etc.
| That was such a bad experience I never touched any kind of
| handheld from Sony, and not gonna touch this one, for sure.
| teruakohatu wrote:
| - has a removable / replaceable battery
| accidue wrote:
| Hidizs (AP80)?
| walterbell wrote:
| Is there a viable competitor of these elegant Sony designs?
|
| 2021 thread on music players, some with Rockbox firmware,
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26870648
| LeoPanthera wrote:
| Fiio devices are excellent, but not much cheaper.
| https://www.fiio.com
| yborg wrote:
| Have a FiiO M6, industrial design is nice, but the system
| software is horrid, as is the battery life.
| walterbell wrote:
| FiiO M3K has partial Rockbox open-source firmware support,
| https://rockbox.org.
| insane_dreamer wrote:
| iPod Nano 4 Gen was one of my favorite electronic devices ever.
| So sad Apple decided to discontinue it. I would still one today
| instead of carrying my phone everywhere.
| schizo89 wrote:
| Mobile phones aren't allowed in prisons while MP3 players are.
| Good to know Sony cares about inmates.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I recently got into collecting minidisc hardware.
|
| A minidisc player isn't too different from a flash player in that
| it plays compressed music off a filesystem, the difference is the
| filesystem is stored on a magneto-optical disc instead of flash.
|
| You definitely don't have the huge capacity that a flash player
| has but I'd say listening in outdoor conditions you can put 160
| minutes of music on a disc and with a few discs you have enough
| music for your day.
| CharlesW wrote:
| What's interesting about this vs. something like an Apple Watch?
|
| It's hard to imagine a use can where I need to to hear lossless
| audio on wired headphones but wouldn't have my phone with me.
| sleepydog wrote:
| I came across these recently at an electronics store in Japan.
| These feel really good in my hand; it's not too wide or long, the
| buttons feel really solid, and its a bit thicker than a phone
| which makes it easier to hold and makes the buttons bigger. And
| they are light.
|
| I have no use for an mp3 player, but I would love to have a phone
| in the same body. It runs android but doing anything other than
| playing music felt sluggish.
|
| I used the smaller xperia phones for 2 generations and really
| liked them, but this mp3 player feels even better in my hand.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| All phones are migrating towards being portable video watchers
| and mobile gaming devices with huges screen surface area.
|
| I was hoping it was just a trend and they come back to phones
| that my thumb can reach the top corner and that actually fit in
| my jeans back pocket.
|
| Seems like all the marketing people have forgotten about those,
| or perhaps I am just in the minority and there really is no
| market for phones as _just_ a PDA device.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| > All phones are migrating towards being portable video
| watchers and mobile gaming devices with huges screen surface
| area.
|
| Because you can't fit as many ads on a small screen.
| SSLy wrote:
| You can still buy iPhone 13 Mini, like I did last year.
| [deleted]
| francasso wrote:
| I say it's time to bring back cassette tapes and a new edition of
| the TPS-L2. If Leica can release a new M6, Sony should release a
| new TPS-L2
| Hackbraten wrote:
| Even if cassette tapes become popular again, decent-quality
| cassette mechanisms aren't coming back.
|
| If Sony (or anyone else) ever chooses to release another
| cassette player, brace yourself for a meh listening experience,
| and a crap mechanism with lots of plastic that's going to
| deteriorate and break, with no one around who'd be skilled
| enough to fix your unit.
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Is the knowledge to make good read heads just lost? There's
| definitely a market for them. You'd think a Chinese
| manufacturer would have started cranking them out by now.
| TonyTrapp wrote:
| One issue, completely independent from manufacturing, is
| that Dolby no longer licenses their noise reduction
| algorithm used for tapes encoded with Dolby noise
| reduction.
| jccalhoun wrote:
| It is more the wow and flutter and the quality of the gears
| and belt. They could either spend the time and money
| creating quality parts that they might not sell or they
| could keep pumping out the same crap that is already
| selling.
| Hackbraten wrote:
| I don't know much about read heads. To me, they seem like
| complex mechanical devices on their own. The head must be
| able to move vertically, yet end up perfectly flush with
| the tape material. Its design requires special
| consideration just so it won't damage the tape. It needs to
| take some degree of abuse, mostly in the form of abrasion
| but also (inappropriate use of) cleaning agents. Then the
| angle of the head needs to be adjustable, and the head
| needs to maintain the angle even in the face of vibrations.
| Even if someone knew how to design a good read head,
| producing one might turn out difficult in a less-than-mass
| market.
|
| What worries me even more than that is the art of building
| a drive. A tape drive must maintain the angular velocity of
| the capstan(s). If yours varies by more than a few tenths
| of percent, you'll be dealing with "wow and flutter". Not
| all listeners may care enough, but most do notice.
|
| Drive makers used to have all those issues under control,
| at least in the higher-end segment - as Sony has shown with
| their DD series and the D6C. Trying to mass-produce a
| decent drive in 2023 would, however, eat up incredible
| amounts of engineering time just for _designing_ a workable
| mechanism. Trying to copy and paste one of the old designs
| may turn out even more laborious. Those designs are tied to
| a huge stack of specific parts [0], for which there used to
| be an ecosystem of suppliers but those all long gone of
| course. I can imagine that they've taken their own specific
| knowledge with them, too.
|
| [0]: If you're interested, elektrotanya.com has service
| manuals for a few higher-end Walkmen with exploded-view
| diagrams and BOMs. Looking at those has been a _very_
| humbling experience for me!
| misterprime wrote:
| I wonder why these don't also include audio recording features.
| It seems like a standalone device to play music well would also
| be perfect for recording audio well.
| franga2000 wrote:
| There are very few situations where you can't just use a phone,
| but don't need any of the features of a proper audio recorder
| (phantom power, multiple inputs, XLR/jack, a good directional
| microphone...). It wouldn't hurt to have a mic on the player
| for sure, but I can't see it unlocking any new use cases.
| misterprime wrote:
| There's a whole market for stand alone audio recorders. https
| ://www.amazon.com/s?k=audio+recorder&crid=1W4GXCLJNGKPI...
| franga2000 wrote:
| Oh yes, I've used those a few times and they were great.
| They're usually quite cheap (sub 50EUR), have weeks to
| months of battery, tactile controls (so you can use them
| for narration without looking) and (perhaps most
| importantly) large and high-quality microphones. Not
| something you can just add to an mp3 player.
| misterprime wrote:
| Thanks! Yes, they have nice features of their own. What
| about adding an mp3 player's features to those products?
| cutler wrote:
| I paid PS250 for 5th generation iPod Touch in 2013. SONY's prices
| are way higher.
| okasaki wrote:
| I quite like the look of this device. It's blocky, 16:9 screen,
| lots of buttons. I would definitely buy a phone or PDA in this
| format. Actually I wonder if this could function as a decent PDA?
| I guess it doesn't have any cameras or GPS, which would be nice
| to have.
| kube-system wrote:
| The older Sony Xperia phones look at lot like this, but
| unfortunately the new ones don't.
| [deleted]
| yawniek wrote:
| One of the reasons i liked and bought the xperia pro-i was this
| design style. Unfortunately it has really bad battery life.
| antonyh wrote:
| I have the Pro-I and I get 3+ days on a charge. Right now it
| reports 21 hours since 100%, and 3 days left. It's been
| excellent.
| munchler wrote:
| > I have no use for a standalone music player, but both of these
| Walkmans are so pretty that I just want to hold one.
|
| I think that sums it up pretty well. Who would actually buy one
| of these?
| mhdhn wrote:
| Instareview: maybe cool, let's see... What, no buttons to skip
| ahead/behind 15 seconds? Useless. What a goof! Good-bye
| shp0ngle wrote:
| I heard good stuff about the Fiio players. Apparently they also
| run Android.
|
| https://www.fiio.com/player
| sandreas wrote:
| THIS is really interesting. There are lots of high quality
| players nowadays (called Hi-res or DAP), but most of them with
| very custom / outdated android. Fiio has the ability to sideload
| android apps with M6 and M9 models, but no open app store.
|
| Most of these high quality players work well for music, some of
| them can even be used as USB sound card, but none of them has a
| specific audio book app / handling - except of course Apple iPod.
|
| With android 12 and a size pretty similar to old iPod classic or
| iPod touch, the NW-A300 Walkman device is very interesting to me.
| Slightly too large, but it could run Apps like substreamer (with
| Navidrome) and AudioBookShelf. I really hope the battery can be
| replaced and it is repairable without too much hazzle.
|
| Similar high quality devices / brands - some of them > 1000$:
| - Sony (NW-A55) - Fiio (M6, M9, M11) - Hidizs (AP80)
| - Shanling (M2X, M3X) - iBasso - Astell & Kern
| - Ruizu - Hiby (R3) - Lootoo - Luxury &
| Precision / L&P - Cowon
| 28304283409234 wrote:
| What is the software support cycle on this walkman look like?
| Android 12 is next year's outdated Android.
| sandreas wrote:
| If it is a stock android it's quite possible that an open
| variant could be supported some day. These walkman devices
| have several advantages over smartphones: -
| Better audio quality (obviously, some also have balanced
| outputs) - Better Bluetooth high quality transmit
| standards (LDAC, aptX, etc.) - Smaller form factor
| (most of the time, some of these are bulky) - Control
| buttons
|
| Something I don't know: Do they support earphone remotes?
|
| I bought an LG G5 H850 with a bang & olufsson audio module
| (Hi-fi plus) - pretty good so far and cheap (< 100$).
| - Lineage OS support - Audio Jack - Pretty small
| form factor - support up to 2TB micro sd - an
| interchangeable battery
|
| But it is still to big and the lack of control buttons is
| pretty annoying, even if earphone remotes are supported.
| noxvilleza wrote:
| Also better amplification - many smartphones don't have the
| power to drive more demanding pairs of headphones.
|
| > earphone remotes
|
| I've had a variety of DAPs, and they almost all support
| both Bluetooth controls, as well as inline volume up/down.
| Not sure what else you'd mean by 'earphone remotes'.
| sandreas wrote:
| > Not sure what else you'd mean by 'earphone remotes'.
|
| Basically every remote that is on headphones with a
| cable. Apple devices can nearly all be controlled by e.g.
| the remote of EarPods, from iPod to iPhone, even MacBooks
| with 3,5mm plug support these controls:
| vol+ [upper button] play / pause [middle button]
| vol- [lower button] next [double tap play]
| previous [triple tap play] fastfwd [double tap play
| AND hold on second tap] rewind [triple tap play AND
| hold on third tap]
|
| Unfortunately Apple uses CTIA specs and most non Apple
| devices use OMTP - so EarPods do not work the same way on
| Android devices and Android apps often do not support all
| of these shortcuts.
|
| https://thecablesland.com/ctia-vs-omtp/
|
| Apple really did a good job for the controls, but the
| hardware (earpods) are really poor quality compared to
| similar priced in ears (e.g. house of marley or
| soundmagic e50c).
| noxvilleza wrote:
| Gotcha, I didn't know the names off-hand but turns out
| this doc I'd read does have them specified[https://source
| .android.com/docs/core/interaction/accessories...]. I
| don't have any Apple products so definitely something
| that flew under my radar.
| jwatt wrote:
| I would like something like this but one thing that makes
| Android-based music players like this unappealing is the versions
| of Android they start with. When this is releases in February,
| Android 13 will have been out for six months. Android devices
| don't get security updates for long enough as it is, so starting
| out the gate with a non-current version of Android isn't great.
| Tams80 wrote:
| It's a DAP. I mean, sure, you could be doing smart device
| things on it, but really it only runs Android to get easy
| access to streaming services and media apps.
|
| So it doesn't really matter, as the vast majority of owners
| aren't going to be doing anything that will get it compromised.
| Many might never connect it to the Internet again after setup.
| jwatt wrote:
| I agree the number of attack vectors is significantly reduced
| in comparison to the same version of Android on a smartphone
| (particularly if the user is making little or no use of the
| music player's already limited app store). But there are
| still many, many CVEs for Bluetooth, for example. Taking the
| Bluetooth example, I would be happier connecting to a hire
| car's audio system with a version of Android that is getting
| patched than a version that is not, and may have known
| vulnerabilities. I don't want my DAP to potentially be a
| vector for transferring malware around.
| ldng wrote:
| YES BUTTONS ! (sorry for low quality post but it's been getting
| tough to find good hardware with buttons ...)
| drooopy wrote:
| I share your enthusiasm. Much of my frustration with modern
| electronics and home appliances stems from the fact that I have
| to use shitty touch screens and touch buttons.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| I appreciate the frustration and I am right there with you as
| a user.
|
| However, it is actually hard (and costly) to manufacture and
| quality control physical switches that will survive the life
| time of a warranty + a few years (in terms of mechanical
| failure, dirt, corrosion, water ingress, etc.). Once you
| appreciate this then it is pretty easy to see how the design
| choices of using capacitive interfaces are a no brainer for
| consumer electronics and appliances.
|
| On top of it you have the marketing push of capacitive
| interfaces = modern.
| aussieshibe wrote:
| Maybe we're almost up to "physical buttons = retro cool"?
| I'm certainly ready for that.
| izzydata wrote:
| Soon to be a major problem in vehicles as well. Hopefully it
| doesn't get too difficult to find a car with buttons.
| aussieshibe wrote:
| Absolutely. How is anyone supposed to be able to safely do
| anything on a touchscreen while driving? That using a
| touchscreen while driving is legal completely baffles me.
| ilyt wrote:
| $300 for 32 GB storage with no option to expand sounds kinda
| awful for dedicated music player
| tecleandor wrote:
| It has a MicroSD slot for storage.
| pavlov wrote:
| If it doesn't play DAT and MiniDisc, is it even a real Sony?
| xd1936 wrote:
| I hope it has a Memory Stick Pro Duo(tm) slot.
| minimalist wrote:
| If this has a Qualcomm chipset and run Android, does this mean
| that it has a functional GPS radio as well? I've always wanted
| the equivalent of an android PDA/MP3 player--with all the
| functionality and ability to run 'apps' but without the cellular
| radio.
|
| I realize I could use an old phone in airplane mode, but I don't
| want that :)
| dstaley wrote:
| They both use Qualcomm chips. The smaller model uses a QCS2290,
| which appears to support GPS, so I suspect the larger model
| does as well.
|
| https://www.qualcomm.com/products/technology/processors/appl...
| p-e-w wrote:
| Is there any scientific evidence that the special hardware found
| in high-end audio equipment (gold-plated connectors, "large
| polymer capacitors", expensive DACs etc.) actually produces
| perceptibly different (and perceptibly _better_ ) audio output?
|
| I mean of course assuming hearing abilities that are within 1-2
| standard deviations of the human average, not one-in-a-million-
| people super hearing. Also assuming actual music is being played,
| not audio tracks specifically engineered to highlight the
| difference.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| Certainly the gold-plated oxygen free copper hocus pocus would
| only be relevant after the DAC where the signal is analog. But
| that doesn't matter if you are just cargo culting. Case in
| point, the infamous $1650 HDMI cables where people would leave
| hilarious reviews on Amazon.
|
| That being said, there can be a big difference going from
| "consumer" level to "basic audiophile". I remember my own
| surprise when I first got a pair of Grado SR80s, how many
| details I could hear in music that I never knew existed before.
| p-e-w wrote:
| I get that some equipment is better than others. But is it
| because of those specific hardware components commonly cited
| in marketing material, or simply because of better overall
| engineering?
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| It's mainly because of tradeoffs and engineering. The
| Grado's as an example have zero outside noise isolation and
| the aesthetics of a 1950s ham radio operator.
| MikusR wrote:
| The only thing gold plating does is protect from corrosion.
| keithalewis wrote:
| There is plenty of empirical evidence people will overpay for
| things they think will enhance their social status. As Woz said
| at Jobs funeral, "Steve invented some of the greatest tools
| known to mankind: Apple fanboys."
| capableweb wrote:
| Speaking about evidence, where you get that quote from?
| Sounds oddly out of character of Woz, doesn't seem like
| something he would say about Jobs, even less so at his
| funeral.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| The amplifier can make a big difference because it can allow
| you to use headphones that you couldn't with a less beefy amp,
| and the speakers/headphones are the one thing that _definitely_
| makes a perceptibly different sound.
| [deleted]
| RantyDave wrote:
| Proper capacitors certainly help. Bass is a big dollop of
| energy being delivered all of a sudden - being why you can see
| the speaker moving. That energy has to come from somewhere and
| it's just one of those things that if you shortcut it, you can
| tell. Similarly you can tell if speakers are in shitty boxes.
| The combination of the two leads to those "home theatre" things
| you see in shops that make a loud "splplplplpl" noise when
| something explodes on screen. Yuck.
|
| Other than that, I think it's mostly bollocks. I think a
| disappointingly large proportion of it can be summed up as
| "don't cut corners" which is why hifi gear from the 70's can
| still sound nice. If you replace the capacitors.
| numpad0 wrote:
| Take a test yourself[1]. Connectors and most of cables probably
| don't matter, caps do, DACs do. The real problem with cultist
| audio is people don't close PDCA or OODA loops and resorts to
| occultic nonsense like gluing pebble stones on circuit breakers
| to "absorb bad energy", but scientific methodologies do work
| for what are measurable and actionable.
|
| 1: http://abx.digitalfeed.net/
| [deleted]
| makeitdouble wrote:
| I think your real question is wether uncompressed audio from a
| fine tuned DAC sounds better than compressed AAC converted by
| current Bluetooth headphones.
|
| The competition to this are mobile phones, and they almost all
| moved to bluetooth only, so the choice is which Bluetooth
| headphones gets better sound with a form factor you better
| like, pitted against the flurry of wired headphones and hybrid
| that are still on the market.
| MrBuddyCasino wrote:
| Its all marketing. Price and performance have a surprisingly
| low correlation in the hifi market, after going above the
| threshold of crappyness. Nobody will believe you if you tell
| them this.
| _trampeltier wrote:
| Finally with a standart USB port. So I guess it's time to buy a
| new one :-)
| imwillofficial wrote:
| From the article:
|
| "It's a shame Sony never became a force in smartphones, because,
| wow, their product designs are still so good."
|
| It looks like shit
| Tsiklon wrote:
| One thing to note about Sony android players is that the European
| models have ferocious volume limits; neither having high gain
| mode, nor the grunt to drive more inefficient headphones in low
| gain mode.
|
| This appears to be set as a value in a read only database that
| would require root to remove. A method to acquire root is not
| known to be available on any of them.
| Doxin wrote:
| That's odd, AFAIK the EU only requires a _warning_ at a certain
| volume level. My android phone will give you a warning that you
| 've set the volume to the limit once, but then allows you to
| increase it further after dismissing the warning anyways.
| Tsiklon wrote:
| They certainly do that in Europe too, but they also hard
| limit the output of the player. Even the balanced output,
| which should offer more power is limited to the same volume
| as the 3.5mm output.
| 112233 wrote:
| I've noticed Sony doing a sort of malicious compliance with
| European regulations, implementing them in a way that is
| conformant, yet maximally infuriating. For example, energy
| usage warnings on their TVs sold in eirope.
| Tsiklon wrote:
| This is exactly what they are doing - as confirmed by their
| response to my very unhappy review of the WM1AM2 on their
| website: https://www.sony.co.uk/store/product/nwwm1am2.cew/WM
| 1AM2-Wal...
| suction wrote:
| [dead]
| MR4D wrote:
| 7 buttons on one side. The whole thing is roughly the size of a
| deck of cards, so not sure how well that works out for anyone
| with big hands or gloves. But better than a touch screen I
| suppose.
| [deleted]
| rvz wrote:
| At least it has both a headphone jack and Bluetooth 5, unlike the
| majority of the smartphones out there that have outright removed
| the former.
|
| Just plug it in and that is it.
| m000 wrote:
| I would be hesitant to shell out 400 EUR for a music-player-only
| device. But this is a very appealing phone form factor, if Sony
| could also squeeze-in a GSM module, a workable (not necessarily
| great) camera, and more storage (32GB sounds rather measly these
| days).
| Narishma wrote:
| It's not a music-player only device. It's basically an Android
| phone without the modem. It can do a ton of stuff besides play
| music.
| d1l wrote:
| I have an nwa55, which is notably Not one of the android
| walkmans. I love it and spend usually 1-2 hours a night listening
| to music on it before bed. Battery life is incredible.
|
| I'm not sure why they went android though. Begs the question why
| not just get a phone.
| femiagbabiaka wrote:
| Finally USB-C, no more proprietary cables.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| This looks awesome. I've been wishing for more hardware buttons
| on Android or iPhone devices for so long.
|
| I would even take a case for iPhone which has extra buttons for
| common tasks on the side. Please steal this idea.
| mrblampo wrote:
| Fascinating. To use such a thing, where would I get downloadable
| DRM free music these days? What software do I use to sync it to
| an Android device? What software do I use to browse and play it
| on an Android device?
|
| (I am asking these questions excitedly, not dubiously)
| TonyTrapp wrote:
| There's plenty of stores to buy MP3 or lossless music. Random
| (un-reviewed) list I found:
| https://www.10stripe.com/featured/directory/drm-free-music.p...
|
| Obviously there is also Bandcamp. 7digital is also missing from
| that list.
| pwg wrote:
| <blockquote>To use such a thing, where would I get downloadable
| DRM free music these days?</blockquote>
|
| <p>One option is the same place you used to get downloadable
| DRM free music in the past, your local bittorrent client.
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| > To use such a thing, where would I get downloadable DRM free
| music these days?
|
| I usually do one of the following:
|
| 1) Purchase physical CDs from Amazon that include "AutoRip" on
| the description. This provides a DRM-free mp3 version of the
| album that you can download.
|
| 2) In the event that an AutoRip is not available, do the rip
| myself. I still have a USB CD/DVD drive that I plug-in to my
| laptop for this purpose, and a tiny VM to run Exact Audio Copy.
|
| 3) Finally, for purchasing digital music outright, there's
| always Bandcamp.
|
| I suppose itunes is still around, too, but to be honest I've
| never used it.
| mrblampo wrote:
| I guess one option would be to use the same music streaming
| apps I would use on a phone, but use the download feature
| aggressively for playing music offline.
| csdvrx wrote:
| > Fascinating.
|
| One of the best purchases I did these past years. Make sure to
| get a silicone case and a lanyard.
|
| > To use such a thing, where would I get downloadable DRM free
| music these days?
|
| https://www.supraphonline.cz/ is my favorite source: they have
| about everything. You can buy track-by-track or the full album.
| You get FLAC files immediately.
|
| > What software do I use to sync it to an Android device?
|
| Your regular file manager, doing a drag and drop from the
| ~/Downloads folder
|
| > What software do I use to browse and play it on an Android
| device?
|
| The default Sony player isn't bad, but there are 2 other
| extremely good players: Musicolet (great for it support of
| lyrics if you are into Opera or Rap) and PowerAMP (great if you
| have a USB Dongle or new bluetooth headphones and want to make
| sure the codec support is adequate)
| mg wrote:
| I am a huge fan of standalone mp3-players.
|
| So much so, that at some point I made a comparison site for
| mp3-players. But nobody cared. I made comparison sites for
| smartphones, laptops and monitors which became quite popular. But
| for mp3-players, it seemed like I am the only person on planet
| earth who uses them.
|
| Personally, I still use a Sony Walkman NWZ-E585. For me, that is
| the best mp3 player ever made. It has a nice form factor, feels
| very good haptically, the navigation interface is ok, the sound
| quality is great, the noise cancelling too, and you can access
| the storage without having to install propriatery software on
| your computer.
| Krasnol wrote:
| I wish I would have some use for an mp3 player but I don't.
|
| I have my Android phone with me all the time. Sometimes even a
| second one so my mp3s are on there.
|
| The only use I could see would be for a long bike tour where I
| want to save phone battery time but those are quite rare and
| the price they call there is ridiculous for that.
| kramerger wrote:
| When I'm travelling and need to be 100% sure my phone is
| working, i always bring an old android as mp3 player.
|
| I use it to listen to audiobooks.
| Krasnol wrote:
| I use a powerbank since I need the phone too.
|
| And yes, I use it mainly to listen to audiobooks too.
| alganet wrote:
| I can say the same of my NWZ-S730. More than 10 years of usage
| and it still works great. I wish I could find replacement noise
| cancelling headphones for it, they were amazing for public
| transport. It will probably last 10 more years, maybe even
| more.
| aftergibson wrote:
| Still use an iPod 5th gen daily. I would happily use Rockbox
| but it's lacking any Podcast support which I need, but you're
| definitely not alone!
| m01 wrote:
| I've not tried it myself, but is this of any use?
|
| https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/DataBase#Examples
|
| All of the database examples talk about podcasts. Especially
| the last one that uses play counts to split podcasts into old
| and new "folders" seems useful.
|
| (Opinions my own)
| omnicognate wrote:
| You're not alone and neither is the Walkman. Enough people use
| these things to support a small market that, having not been
| killed by mobile phones by 2023, isn't going to be. I have an
| Astell & Kern one.
|
| People may not have been interested in the comparison site
| because there just aren't that many devices to choose from and
| the choice comes down more to the sound than features that can
| be enumerated on a comparison list. Monitors are a mess, with
| each manufacturer making a zillion variants with cryptic model
| numbers differing in quantifiable ways. I've actively sought
| out monitor comparisons, but one for DAPs never occurred to me.
| mmh0000 wrote:
| Years ago, I would have agreed with you, for the longest time I
| used an iAudio 5XL with Rockbox. It was the best portable music
| player.
|
| But now... I can have a cell phone with 512GB of storage and
| run Foobar2000 [1][2]. Nothing else can compete.
|
| [1][Android]
| https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.foobar2000...
|
| [2] [iOS] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/foobar2000/id1072807669
| orthoxerox wrote:
| I used to use my NWZ-A17 every day until the pandemic started.
| It was small, light, has physical buttons I could press when it
| was in my parka's inner pocket, I didn't have to recharge it
| every night.
|
| Now I work from home and I have migrated to my smartphone. I
| use it infrequently enough that I am not annoyed by what the
| streaming service tries to get me to listen to.
|
| And owning a dumb mp3 player comes with its own drawbacks. If
| artist A has released 20 albums, artist B only five and I have
| both discographies on my player, that doesn't mean I want to
| listen to artist A four times as often when I ask for a
| shuffled playlist.
|
| Back when I owned a 256MB mp3 player (and felt like a king
| among people with floppies) I would hand-pick a playlist that
| would fit. With dozens of gigabytes of storage I have no desire
| to do that and I want the player to come up with a good
| playlist for me.
| this_is_not_you wrote:
| What do you mean by "the noise cancelling too"? I thought that
| was a feature of headphones and not MP3 players`.
| Tams80 wrote:
| The wired ones use the DAP for the processing. Special
| (usually only for the DAP in question) headphones/earbuds
| with microphonesnare needed. They are usually included
| though, so it's hardly an issue.
| wintogreen74 wrote:
| >> you can access the storage without having to install
| propriatery software on your computer.
|
| I was also a fan when they almost all played from a file
| system, but even 10+ years ago it was harder and harder to find
| something that didn't require a store or some terrible music
| management application. Streaming continues to kill this
| approach as well. My kids don't know what an mp3 is.
| nextlevelwizard wrote:
| mp3 players are pretty niche. For normal day to day stuff I
| already have my phone which has all features any mp3 player has
| and I want to carry it for other reasons as well.
|
| There needs to be a good reason to carry extra device. I could
| see carrying something that has much better sound quality with
| amp that can drive some more hobbyist headphones, but I don't
| know if such devices are made - at least all the mp3 players
| I've seen are made to be as cheap as possible.
| tobz1000 wrote:
| If you listen to music all day, saving phone battery life is
| a pretty good reason. Plus a non-Android MP3 player can get
| 40-100 hours on a charge.
|
| > all the mp3 players I've seen are made to be as cheap as
| possible.
|
| There are plenty of high-end players which prioritise sound
| quality and provide a better output than phones. The NW-ZX700
| in the featured article looks to be one of these. FiiO is
| another well-known higher-end brand: https://www.fiio.com/m17
| noxvilleza wrote:
| I wouldn't call FiiO high-end, they have a pretty wide
| range in most products (including DAPs) that goes from
| budget to relatively high-end ($1800). Astell & Kern start
| about one step down from FiiO's high-end, but can take you
| much higher (their ULTIMA SP3000 is ~$4300).
| lmarcos wrote:
| Main reason to use a standalone mp3 device is: doing excersie
| (sports, running, etc.). I cannot play, let's say basketball
| with my phone hanging around. Nor running, nor almost
| anything that implies excersising.
| csdvrx wrote:
| > There needs to be a good reason to carry extra device
|
| Funny enough, for me that extra device is the phone: I see no
| reason to carry a "phone" for normal day-to-day stuff as my
| walkman has all the features I normally need (email, PDF
| viewer).
|
| I want to carry it for other reasons as well: due to its
| smaller screen size, the walkman limits the use of addictive
| social media.
| signaru wrote:
| I agree, it is pretty niche and I belong to that niche. As a
| music nerd myself, it was dedicated storage and just being
| used to having music offline without the streaming services.
| The iPod nano was so tiny, that it felt like nothing is in my
| jacket's pocket. I do have some music on my phone, but it's
| photos that are mostly taking up its storage. I literally
| have gigabytes worth of music and also audiobooks that are
| several hundreds of megabytes each. Though I don't have data
| to support it, I'm also trying to conserve my phone's
| battery.
| sympodius wrote:
| I feel like I'm opening myself up to some abuse by posting
| this, but I still use my original brown Zune every day. I
| bought one as soon as they became available and I've always
| loved it. I've swapped out the original hard drive twice (once
| early on for a 100 GB HDD until it died, and then for a 128 GB
| SSD), and I've replaced the battery twice as well. Sometimes I
| wonder if I just hold onto it out of nostalgia, but I hope it
| will last a long time to come!
| themadturk wrote:
| I heard nothing but good about the Zune when it was
| available. I'm kind of sad it was taken off the market before
| I had a chance to try it.
| CWuestefeld wrote:
| I got bit by its leapyear bug while I was traveling, and had
| to go the whole day without being able to listen to my music
| :(
| the_third_wave wrote:
| I like to have a separate device for playing audio as well,
| especially one which is sturdy and waterproof and small enough
| to fit in one of those small pockets on my sleeve when I'm out
| in the fields or woods swinging a tractor or an axe.
|
| I also like for that device to be able to receive and make
| phone calls...
|
| ...so I just use an old Android device, to be more specific my
| old Motorola Defy from 2011. It runs Android (Cyanogenmod, the
| predecessor to LineageOS) 4.4, does the Wifi thing but also the
| phone call thing, runs DSub connected to my own Airsonic
| server. It also takes photos, runs Telegram and when in dire
| need even a browser although it takes patience to wait for it
| chewing through a Javascript-burdened "modern" site. I have a
| 32GB microSD card in the thing which is enough given its
| connectivity options. The battery, also from 2011, lasts for 2
| to 3 days of intense use.
|
| Small Android devices running Google-free AOSP-derived
| distributions are a good match for the role of "standalone"
| music players with the added benefit of allowing connectivity.
| Total costs for the latter are around EUR10/year with
| occasional use (Sweden, "pay as you go" SIM), total cost for
| the device is zero since I've used it for 12 years.
| chrischen wrote:
| Play music and make phone calls sounds like an SIM enabled
| Apple Watch.
| the_third_wave wrote:
| No, a SIM enabled Apple watch sounds like an expensive
| solution to an already solved problem in this case. Apart
| from being virtually free the Android-based solution also
| stands out for being open versus the closed nature of the
| Apple watch. I use (other instances of) the same device as
| remote-controlled media player (a Defy running MPD
| connected to a car stereo in a large-ish wooden rectangular
| box with beefy speakers, a battery and several power
| hookups and charging ports (including 20W of solar panels
| to keep the thing going when there's light to be had)) or a
| trailer camera (a screen-less Defy in a custom
| wood+aluminium enclosure mounted in the front of my wife's
| horse trailer, the thing creates its own "cloud" through
| its Wifi adapter so she can see her nags on the road, it
| powers up and down based on the trailer hookup being
| powered with the battery as backup) and other similar
| contraptions.
| chrischen wrote:
| I guess if it's waterproof and small then it works too.
| Though older Apple watches are actually extremely cheap.
| the_third_wave wrote:
| They're still running "iOS" (OK, trimmed down to
| "watchOS") and with that are far less amenable to running
| the type of software I want. It might work for those who
| are in the clutches of the Apple world but for those who
| live in freedom it is of not much use.
| maccard wrote:
| Airpods/Earbuds (I use the galaxy buids pro) have filled that
| need for me. My uses are a little less extreme, granted, but
| I leave my phone in my bag and just use the buds. In practice
| the battery life is more than good enough for me to use every
| day, and it means I have less devices to manage.
| 112233 wrote:
| Standalone devices like HiBy R2 / Shanling M0 / Fiio M5 make
| a lot of sense, because they allow to bridge almost anything
| to almost anything else audio-wise.
| airplay/usb/bluetooth/dlna in -- airplay/usb/bluetooth/dlna
| out. Too bad they are marketed as a "hifi media player"
| dsr_ wrote:
| The best MP3 (and FLAC) player ever made is the Sansa Clip+
| with Rockbox firmware.
|
| $50 when new. Size of a matchbox -- not the car, the small
| thing that restaurants and bars used to hand out as
| advertising. MicroSD slot for storage. 20+ hours of playtime,
| recharged via USB. Appears as a USB Mass Storage device, too.
| 3.5mm headphone jack. Small 2-part monochrome OLED display.
| Physical buttons: D-pad, OK, Menu, power, and volume up and
| down. After a day you don't need to look at it to pause/play,
| skip a track, change the volume or turn it on and off.
|
| With Rockbox installed (ten minute process), you can play FLAC,
| use a parametric equalizer, customize the display, change
| playback speed for audiobooks, and generally do a few dozen
| things more than the factory firmware.
|
| Rockbox lets you do the same on a large number of devices, but
| the Clip+ is the best.
| mg wrote:
| It is a nice device, but I would be missing noise-cancelling
| when using the Sansa Clip+.
|
| Noise-cancelling is a must-have for me. It significantly
| increases quality of life to have it with you, wherever you
| go.
|
| And I like the high-quality look and haptic feeling of the
| NWZ-E585. It looks like a classy audio device. And it feels
| really good in your hand.
| mellosouls wrote:
| No reason you can't have noise cancelling with wired
| earphones to the Sansa, Bose QC20s etc.
|
| I assume also there are jack-to-bluetooth adapters for
| wireless.
| mg wrote:
| QC20 are not an option for me because of the extra device
| that is built into the cord close to where you plug it
| into the mp3-player. It makes handling of the whole
| system cumbersome.
|
| I guess the noise-cancelling has to be built into the
| mp3-player to avoid this. I have not seen elegant in-ear
| headphones with built-in noise-cancelling yet.
| Lio wrote:
| No need to have noise cancelling as part of the mp3
| player.
|
| As long as you don't mind over the ear headphones Bose
| QC35 are wireless but also come with a optional 2.5mm to
| 3.5mm jack cord.
|
| I imgaine that there's lots of alternatives on the market
| too.
| [deleted]
| alex_duf wrote:
| Out of curiosity how does noise canceling works when on the
| device?
|
| I assumed it was only possible when on the headset as it
| needed to be measured and cancelled based on the direction
| of the sound.
|
| I'm failing how a device in your pocket can cancel any
| ambiant noise
| dreamoffire wrote:
| If I'm reading the specs right it looks like their
| headphones are required. I'm guessing mic's are on each
| side and offloaded to the player? Either way, I wouldn't
| want to be forced to use their headphones.
| emptyfile wrote:
| [dead]
| mellosouls wrote:
| Absolutely the best, I use my phone these days as I have it
| on me but replaced the Sansa with another as I couldn't find
| anything as good even after it was discontinued.
| WithinReason wrote:
| Shame it was discontinued around 2013
| antihero wrote:
| What's the DAC/amp like on it?
| datpiff wrote:
| http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/sansa-clip-
| measured.html
|
| Very good
| hyperpl wrote:
| I agree. There was something magical about these especially
| how good the sound quality is for its size and portability. I
| use mine at the gym and when running since you can barely
| feel it. It has a nice selection of apps too.
|
| I've collected 3 over the years in case any of them die off.
| While the battery life is still good I should probably get
| around to researching replacement batteries/cells while I
| still can.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| Can't you just put any 3.7v lipo battery with a protection
| board that'll fit?
|
| The only failure I've had with one so far was the front
| buttons; and I bought a broken one for parts years ago that
| had the exact same issue...
| lazlee wrote:
| I second that. I'm a commercial painter and more then once
| I've had my sansa mp3 player fall into a paint bucket. Fish
| it out, clean it up and the damn things just kept on working.
| Instant brand loyalty after that. Shame they stopped making
| them.
| indigodaddy wrote:
| Looks like Best Buy and other retailers still sell a line
| of Sandisk "Clips" ??
|
| https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sandisk-clip-jam-8gb-
| mp3-player...
| dsr_ wrote:
| Sadly, not the same. Rockbox makes a real functional and
| usability difference.
| lazlee wrote:
| Cool. It's been so long since they disappeared in my neck
| of the woods that I have stopped looking. I'll check this
| out. Thanks.
| jdmichal wrote:
| From the Rockbox devices page:
|
| > Sansa Clip Sport / Clip Jam / Clip Sport Go / Clip
| Sport Plus
|
| > These are based on an Actions Semiconductor ATJ2127
| chips, with under 100KB of available memory and all audio
| decoding happening inside dedicated hardware. A rockbox
| port to these (and other ATJ2127) targets will not
| happen, as it would require an immence undertaking and
| due to resource limitations, the end result would lack
| most of the features that rockbox users have come to
| expect.
| rjh29 wrote:
| I owned one (with Rockbox), unfortunately it broke after 2
| years and then they were discontinued.
| spindle wrote:
| Sorry, but the best MP3 (and FLAC) player ever made is the
| Sansa Fuse with Rockbox firmware.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/195360366923?hash=item2d7c62a14b:g
| :...
| rekoil wrote:
| Blast from the past, loved playing around with rockbox back
| in the days of the early iPods!
|
| Glad to hear its still somewhat alive!
| gfaregan wrote:
| I had a Sansa clip of some type and it lasted about as long
| as the cheap $5 mp3 player I bought next. These days I find
| it more convenient to use my phone. You can play mp3s just
| fine on a phone.
| stronglikedan wrote:
| Sure, but there are use cases where you can't play MP3s on
| a phone, and this is where MP3 players fill the need.
| themadturk wrote:
| I have a friend who depends on her Sansa Clip+. Sure, she
| has a phone, but the clip is tiny, the battery lasts
| forever and it has a headphone jack.
| pera wrote:
| Phones are awful if you are doing exercises though.
| iamacyborg wrote:
| Depends. I use my phone to control music when I'm in the
| gym but when I'm out running or cycling then listening to
| music is generally a bad idea, IMO, as you lose spatial
| awareness.
|
| I suppose that's more or less important whether you're
| running in a busy city or out in the countryside though.
|
| Either way, recent high end smart/sport watches usually
| have some sort of music playback support for folks who
| want to exercise with music but don't want to lug around
| a phone.
| s0rce wrote:
| As you said, losing spatial awareness is only an issue if
| you are forced to share space with cars where drivers
| often don't pay attention and try to murder you. If you
| are on paths/trails or in the middle of nowhere then its
| not a big deal. You don't hear the mountain lion stalking
| you regardless if you are listening to music.
| iamacyborg wrote:
| It's not just cars, helps to just hear what else is
| happening, if other runners are behind you, cyclists,
| etc.
| mantas wrote:
| Awareness is important without cars too. Be it cyclist to
| cyclist or runner to cyclist.
|
| You may not hear mountain lion, but you may hear stray
| dog.
| Zancarius wrote:
| That latter part is important. I live out in the country,
| and I've had more than a couple of encounters with
| aggressive dogs. Occasionally other wildlife, but as I
| like to posit: The forest reveals its secrets if you
| listen closely enough.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| You can get good deals on Garmin watches that play music
| at their factory outlet store. I compress music with AAC
| Pro on my mac and then upload it, I really can't complain
| about the sound quality given that the gym or outdoors is
| usually noisy.
| i_am_jl wrote:
| Garmin really undersells their music functionality on
| their fitness watches. I wasn't expecting the depth of
| music features on their newer stuff, like being able to
| automatically sync Spotify playlists to your watch for
| offline play, or being able to use the watch as a remote
| for your Bluetooth-connected phone.
| [deleted]
| rjsw wrote:
| The display on my exercise bike has broken, so it has
| been useful to have a stopwatch as well as a music player
| on my phone, I don't have a good way to carry it for any
| other kind of exercise.
| nradov wrote:
| How are phones awful? In the gym I just stick my phone in
| the corner and the Bluetooth radio has enough range to
| reach my headphones. For running I just put my phone in
| my pocket.
|
| I have a Garmin smart watch that supports audio playback
| but it's a hassle to use because I have to load or sync
| recordings in advance. Streaming audio on my phone is
| much more convenient. Plus I have my phone with me anyway
| in case I want to take a picture due Strava or something.
| 2devnull wrote:
| You obviously don't care if your phone gets stolen or
| your Bluetooth headphones get ruined by sweat or have a
| plate dropped on them.
|
| I will personally attest to the Sansa clip + $10 earbuds
| being the best workout audio combo available.
| nradov wrote:
| I am fortunate enough to be a member at a gym where theft
| isn't a problem. Good Bluetooth headphones aren't ruined
| by sweat (and I sweat a lot). If you drop a plate on your
| ear then you have bigger problems than ruining your
| headphones.
| 31337Logic wrote:
| Same here. Still use my Sansa every single day!
| jrockway wrote:
| Yeah, the Clip+ with Rockbox was just incredible. Got me
| through a lot of workdays in the corporate "no software
| allowed on your computer" days.
|
| I was using mine in the very early days of Android existing.
| Some people had them, but I didn't yet. I got my first
| Android phone, moved my music over, and was ... massively
| disappointed. My favorite phone incident was sitting on some
| flight, trying to listen to music, and my phone wouldn't play
| it through the headphones, speakers only, annoying everyone
| nearby. I didn't listen to music on that flight and promptly
| switched back to a device that did not have a physical
| speaker.
|
| Over time, phones rebuilt trust and I got a lot of use out of
| that, until Google Play Music got shut down and deleted all
| my music (no problem, I have it all locally). Now I have no
| idea what people do and simply go without. I guess people
| don't have music libraries any more and just listen to the
| radio for $10/month? No thanks. (I use foobar2000 on my
| desktop, and don't listen to music away from my home anymore.
| Thanks technological progress?)
| endgame wrote:
| The "problem" I have is that I bought a Cowon iAudio 7 over a
| decade ago and the thing still has amazing battery life and
| sounds fine. By the time I need to replace it, they'll all be
| gone.
| antihero wrote:
| Why not buy some more now then?
| vt100 wrote:
| How long does a battery last when unused?
| ilyt wrote:
| There is a good chance you can just find similar size
| enough battery to fit, althought might require soldering
| jerzmacow wrote:
| What was the name of the site, if you don't mind me asking?
| [deleted]
| antipotoad wrote:
| What's your comparison site for monitors (assuming it's still
| up-to-date)? Interested in something that comes close to Retina
| in PPI, but doesn't carry Apple's hefty price tag.
|
| Edit: ah, well that didn't take much looking. It's
| https://www.productchart.com/ for anyone else interested. Looks
| really nice, thanks!
| [deleted]
| andsoitis wrote:
| > So much so, that at some point I made a comparison site for
| mp3-players. But nobody cared.
|
| Not surprised in the least. People voted long ago, and continue
| to do so, that a single device that handles communication,
| entertainment, games, news, photography, etc. is superior to
| standalone devices you have carry around.
| mertd wrote:
| Good enough is good enough for the majority of the market.
| They don't want to hear Vienna Philharmonic's third violinist
| breathe, they want to listen to autotuned pop music on a pair
| of $20 headphones and get on with their day.
| andsoitis wrote:
| I subscribe to Tidal, which has master quality recordings.
| One's headphone choice is orthogonal to the music player
| you use, so if you can pick a very high quality one for a
| standalone MP3 player you can use that same one with your
| phone.
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| Is that player comparison site still around, or do you have a
| recommendation for someone who has long had the thought of
| getting a dedicated music playing device?
|
| The article listed those as $800, which is ridiculous and
| there's no way I'm paying that much, but if I can find
| something at a much more reasonable price (preferably a
| physical headphone jack) I'd be happy as a clam.
| fragmede wrote:
| Did I not read far enough into the article or something? It
| says $360 in Japan and $430 in the EU to me.
| fourthark wrote:
| They discuss a higher end model at the end which costs more
| than $800.
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| I was skimming specifically looking for price and must
| have missed the earlier, cheaper, listings. And when they
| said that $818 price tag was "relatively cheap" I took
| that to mean that's the entry-level fee and decided to
| nope on out.
|
| I wouldn't even spend that much on my phone (spent less
| than half of that) so there's no way I'm spending that on
| another device, lol.
| dagw wrote:
| If you think that is bad, check out the Walkman NW-WM1ZM2
| (who at Sony thinks that these names are a good idea?)
| for a cool $3500
| k1t wrote:
| _" There's another new Sony Walkman, the NW-ZX700. It's
| 104,500 yen ($818) in Japan, and while that sounds like a
| lot for a portable music player, it's actually a relative
| bargain compare..."_
| squarefoot wrote:
| Ok, at that price point (or even a quarter of that) it
| ceases to be a music player to become a luxury good to be
| shown by paid influencers on social media. Nothing to see
| here, move along...
| omnicognate wrote:
| I used to have one that cost me around PS200 and was alright
| but sounded pretty anaemic. I replaced it with one that cost
| around PS600 and is way better. I love it.
|
| Comments of the form "price X is unreasonable because I'd
| never pay it" are mildly annoying. You're an individual, not
| a market, and as such don't get to choose what a "reasonable"
| price is. DAPs (digital audio players) are available at a
| wide range of prices. The top result for "MP3 player" on
| Amazon UK right now is PS23.99. Choose a price point you're
| happy with and you'll find something. I love mine at the
| price point I went for.
|
| (I've also had one for around PS50, bought a couple of ~PS20
| ones for my small children and owned a couple of different
| DAC dongles for my phone. Unsurprisingly, the sound quality
| is very highly correlated with the price, up to the level
| I've tried. I expect it levels out not far above, though, and
| if you decide to pay thousands for a DAP they'll make it out
| of gold-plated copper because there's nothing else left to
| use the money on. [1])
|
| [1] https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/walkman/nw-wm1z
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| > Comments of the form "price X is unreasonable because I'd
| never pay it" are mildly annoying. You're an individual,
| not a market, and as such don't get to choose what a
| "reasonable" price is.
|
| When my gf wanted an adjustable standing desk the going
| rate was roughly $600 for anything that had everything she
| wanted so I built it myself for maybe $200 and the thing is
| still being used regularly something like 8 years later.
|
| When I want a physical copy of an older PS2 game and
| they're all $100+, I pirate it.
|
| If _YOU_ want to outsource personal responsibility for your
| money, that's on you, don't lecture me because I choose not
| to.
|
| I can conclude that millions for a painting is unreasonable
| despite many people doing it because they're involved in
| money laundering just as well as anyone else.
| Tams80 wrote:
| Just build your own mp3 player/DAP then mate. You seem so
| proud of yourself, I'm sure you'd love it.
|
| -\\_(tsu)_/-
| omnicognate wrote:
| I seem to have got under your skin. It wasn't my
| intention and I apologise if I caused offense, but I
| don't retract what I said. You've described ways you've
| obtained things for less than market price in exchange
| for extra effort or legal risk, not reasons the market
| price should be anything other than what it is, which is
| determined by what people will pay, _collectively_.
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| two comments made by others in this conversation:
|
| > Ok, at that price point (or even a quarter of that) it
| ceases to be a music player to become a luxury good to be
| shown by paid influencers on social media. Nothing to see
| here, move along...
|
| > If you think that is bad, check out the Walkman NW-
| WM1ZM2 (who at Sony thinks that these names are a good
| idea?) for a cool $3500
|
| Your response is what everyone will sound like once our
| robot overlords finally take over. It certainly didn't
| come from an understanding of the human condition.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| Your response is what everyone will sound like once our
| robot overlords finally take over.
|
| Your needless rudeness belies a deeper personal problem.
| omnicognate wrote:
| Further examples of the same attitude. Such comments are
| common, which is why I find them "mildly annoying".
|
| I suggest you find a healthier pastime than getting upset
| about what other people are buying. In the meantime, I'll
| spend my money however I please. Maybe I'll buy a gold
| plated Walkman. They look _shiny_.
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| It's common for people to point out that something is
| overpriced?!? Why that can't be, after all, "the market"
| sez...
|
| And if I tell you that your obvious poking has angered
| me, will you feel sufficiently positive to walk away from
| this conversation?
|
| I guess we'll see.
| omnicognate wrote:
| It's plain I angered you with my first reply, but it
| wasn't intended and I apologised. You replied rudely, so
| yes I had a bit of a poke, which I'm not particularly
| proud of. I don't try to wind people up and it doesn't
| give me pleasure to do so. It just seems especially easy
| in your case.
|
| It's possible to disagree with people on the internet
| without getting emotional about it. It's just a
| conversation about Walkmans. (Walkmen?)
| csdvrx wrote:
| > The article listed those as $800,
|
| Oh it's middle of the line then? Because there are far more
| expensive Walkman models:
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B354TW13/ and
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B45DJ5RQ/
|
| > which is ridiculous and there's no way I'm paying that much
|
| You forgot "for me" after "ridiculous."
|
| I turned myself into an audiophile without even realizing it,
| but once you hear the difference, you can't unhear it. I have
| rediscovered some of my favorite tracks. So if your hearing
| is good (use an app to check if you can still hear the buzz
| sound, if not check your response curve) and you enjoy music,
| why not?
|
| My regular audio setup (walkman, headphones, cable) cost more
| than the (very good, top of the line) OLED laptop I'm using.
| Add all the little extras I use time-to-time, like shoulder
| headphones for use in the morning, or the sunglasses with
| integrated bluetooth I use when taking a walk, and it's an
| obscene amount of money.
|
| But music is what moves my soul. You may spend top dollar for
| your car and consider it a "reasonable" expense because it
| brings you such happiness everyday? I consider a top-of-the-
| line NZW Walkman "reasonable" for the same reasons.
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| [flagged]
| bondarchuk wrote:
| What you can do is look at the players supported on
| https://www.rockbox.org/ (open-source alternative firmware
| for mp3 players) and check which ones are currently available
| for purchase somewhere. From the top of my head I know at
| least Surfans F20 and Xduoo X3II shouldn't be hard to come
| by.
| BHSPitMonkey wrote:
| It warms my heart to see Rockbox still alive and kicking.
| Most of my experience with it took place around 2005-2007
| (wow, we're getting old I guess!). Great project.
| squarefoot wrote:
| I couldn't second that more. Rockbox is a wonderful 100%
| FOSS operating system for music players, and they're
| working hard to port it to new devices, almost always with
| zero help from manufacturers. HNers, please consider
| donating to the project, and/or if you have a old player
| collecting dust somewhere, also consider donating it to
| them so they'll have more hardware available for testing;
| when working with undocumented platforms the risk of
| bricking them is high, so it would help a lot.
| tjrDL6MjB2Zwwa wrote:
| interesting, thank you, I'll have to check that out.
| eqmvii wrote:
| still waiting for minidiscs to make their comeback.
| pasdechance wrote:
| If anyone is wondering, there are a number of choices out there
| for DAPs and portable music devices.
|
| https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hi-res-portable-daps-compari...
|
| I have a Shanling Q1. But, next time around I will probably go
| with something from Sony. Not out of brand loyalty, but because
| some of these companies tend to forget to provide updates. I
| really didn't want an Android device for music. I just wanted
| something around EUR100 that could play hi-res music.
|
| To echo what so many others say: all hail the Sansa Clip+ and
| Rockbox.
| lnxg33k1 wrote:
| It seems that tech world goes in round, we unify devices to only
| having to take one around, then we split the unique device in
| multiple devices, and back? Is it what capitalism is about?
| Manufacture needs back and forth to keep you paying?
| pjerem wrote:
| With such specs and form factor, that'd be the perfect phone for
| me. If it was a phone :(
| mouse_ wrote:
| Statistically nobody buys Sony phones, it seems there's really
| no market for truly premium Android devices
| pjerem wrote:
| I bought them twice (Z3 Compact & Z5 Compact).
|
| I loved their design. Beautiful, colorful, original, compact
| and ergonomic.
|
| But Sony abandoned them. They barely received any update, the
| Z5C had an overheat issue that Sony never fixed.
|
| The phone in itself, the hardware part, was brillant and I
| truly miss it. I'd even say that their design was better than
| iPhones.
|
| The problem was Sony.
|
| They could have been a serious contender to Apple. Even the
| software in itself was pretty good out of the box. It's just
| that it was never updated and so their phones aged very
| poorly.
| tobyhinloopen wrote:
| I really like their phones, in theory.
|
| I don't trust them though. It's a lot of money for a
| relatively unknown device
| nathias wrote:
| I'm just buying a DAP, but I wouldn't buy an android based one,
| it'll get obsolete.
| hilbert42 wrote:
| Seeing it's running Android and having the name _Sony_ I 'd
| strongly recommended that you not buy one if you intend to play
| pirate tracks!
|
| These days I wouldn't trust Sony as far as I could chuck the
| Walkman.
| capableweb wrote:
| Well, maybe do some better research than just reacting to the
| name before judging stuff?
|
| It seems to play things like mp3, wav, aiff, flac and more
| formats perfectly fine, so hook the thing up to a computer, it
| shows up as a USB Mass Storage device and you chuck your
| illegally/legally acquired files over and it'll play it.
|
| Can't find anything else that says it has built in DRM, so why
| would you assume so?
| tobyhinloopen wrote:
| That's a rather bold claim without explanation
| CWuestefeld wrote:
| Not the OP, but I think they've got plenty of precedent to
| fuel their caution. I'm surprised that not everyone doesn't
| immediately remember, when someone says "Sony", the time they
| silently installed a rootkit onto the PC of anyone playing
| one of their music CDs.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk.
| ..
| capableweb wrote:
| So the fear is that when you connect the Walkman to your
| computer it'll do something similar, installing a "copy
| protection rootkit" in order to prevent you from
| transferring non-DRMed files to it? Seems farfetched to me
| I guess, especially if there is zero evidence of it
| happening. But happy to be proven otherwise.
|
| Not sure what that has to do with Android either, the
| "rootkit scandal" you linked is about CDs.
| CWuestefeld wrote:
| No. The fear is that Sony will do _something_ that they
| think is in their own best interest, while completely
| ignoring the interests of their customers. It doesn 't
| have to be a rootkit specifically, it just needs to
| follow their pattern of lack of interest in their own
| customers.
| capableweb wrote:
| So what, realistically, could they do here, if they had
| lack of interest for their own customers? Disable USB
| Mass Storage transfer functionality? Disabling being able
| to play non-DRMed files?
| andremedeiros wrote:
| I'm not knowledgeable at all, but I suspect there would be a DAC
| I could buy that'd make my iPhone sound just as good. Am I way
| off base?
| numpad0 wrote:
| It's not as cumbersome as wrapping together an iPhone and a
| Sony PHA-3 with rubber bands.
| astrange wrote:
| The $9 headphone adapter is better than most audiophile DACs.
| Audiophile equipment is a scam (one sign is the "balanced"
| audio output, which they pretend is better but isn't) and
| Japan's high res audio brands are also scams.
|
| You might want an external amp for high impedance headphones
| for electrical compatibility reasons, but an amp and DAC are
| not the same thing.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| > one sign is the "balanced" audio output, which they pretend
| is better but isn't.
|
| Maybe for a MP3 player it does not matter, but in general the
| physics behind balanced analog audio is quite sound (pardon
| the pun). It is a simple trick that provides better
| resistance to interference.
|
| Every XLR cable on the floor at a show is balanced and it is
| not because the sound guy fell for audiophile marketing, it
| is because it works and costs next to nothing.
| astrange wrote:
| Indeed it does, but that doesn't really apply to headphones
| since the cable is short and there's not a lot of EMF
| interference.
|
| It does have one theoretical advantage - the maximum
| voltage from a battery powered device can be higher which
| might be useful for a very high impedance headphone if
| they're too quiet.
| Synaesthesia wrote:
| Yes but iPhones already have a pretty good DAC so you're not
| gaining much.
| bakugo wrote:
| Doesn't matter what DAC they have unless you're listening on
| the built in speaker, because you can't plug anything into
| it.
| bebna wrote:
| basicly any fiio will do. But often a good dongle will be
| enough if you only got basic in ears. The amps are helpful for
| headphones with higher impedance rating and therefore need more
| oomph on the line to make them move.
| bakugo wrote:
| Apple's own 3.5mm adapter is actually pretty reputable in the
| audiophile community for being a surprisingly good DAC. If it
| has enough output power to drive whatever you use, you don't
| need anything else (the cable is pretty thin and fragile
| though, might want to get something else if you care about
| that)
| donatj wrote:
| So why buy one of these over an Android phone and an external
| DAC/Amp?
|
| Also 32gb? That's only a handful of highres audio.
|
| I'm assuming the people buying this kind of thing are the same
| people buying higher than CD quality audio?
| Godel_unicode wrote:
| I feel like they know that the people who buy this are going to
| need TB of storage, and are going to use MicroSD cards for the
| media.
| neonscribe wrote:
| 32GB is just for the system. It has a microSD slot for music.
| jasonkester wrote:
| What combination of apps would one need to install on an
| android phone to pull this off?
|
| I remember being able to copy music onto my Nexus 4 via the usb
| cable and play it through Google's music app, ten years ago.
| But they ripped that out years ago so that you could only
| stream music from in the app. Now the default way to play music
| on my phone appears to be "YouTube Music", which kinda
| grudgingly let's you play individual songs from the hard drive,
| but only after explaining that it's not going to let you put
| them in playlists or categorize them by artist and album or
| search on them.
|
| Does there exist a nice way to play your own mp3s on a phone
| today?
| f1refly wrote:
| I've been using Vinyl for years and have no complaints:
| https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.poupa.vinylmusicplayer/
| ihusasmiiu wrote:
| I can't spend enough good words on Poweramp. Expecially if
| you use an external DAC, it's the software you're looking
| for.
|
| It's been thr first app I bought on my first Android phone
| running 2.1.
|
| The developer behind it kept delivering updates, improving
| compatibility with the quirky audio stack of some smartphones
| and introducing actually useful features.
|
| The interface doesn't follow the latest user-hostile trends,
| having instead its own consistent style. Nonetheless over the
| years it's been constantly polished. The huge number of
| features and settings are not limited by the interface which
| actually provides discoverability for them.
|
| For the audiophiles, the audio pipeline is extremely
| customizable. For the tinkers the interface is very
| customizable and APIs for writing plugins with are provided.
| bane wrote:
| Vlc
| krupan wrote:
| I use musicolet
| E39M5S62 wrote:
| Blackplayer EX, Musicolet, VLC. There are quite a few file-
| based players for Android phones.
| pwg wrote:
| > Does there exist a nice way to play your own mp3s on a
| phone today?
|
| Lots, but you do have to venture outside of the app. stores
| where every app. wants you 'streaming' so they can also
| monetize the metadata they can collect from you as well.
|
| I use this one on my Android, no fuss, no muss, just plays
| mp3's from the SDCard:
|
| https://f-droid.org/en/packages/ch.blinkenlights.android.van.
| ..
|
| Fdroid's Multimedia area has a lot of other options as well:
|
| https://f-droid.org/en/categories/multimedia/
| axiolite wrote:
| > Does there exist a nice way to play your own mp3s on a
| phone today?
|
| There are tons of MP3 player apps for Android:
|
| vlc - has a surprisingly decent UI for music. (Open Source)
|
| Simple Music Player - gets the job done. (Open Source)
|
| Rocket Player - paid a few dollars for it near a decade ago
| and it's still decent.
|
| Foobar2000 - The familiar old man is still around.
| tmtvl wrote:
| I use VLC on my Android smartphone whenever I'm on the
| train or bus and the only reason why I wouldn't give it the
| highest possible recommendation is that they have
| implemented stop by having you hold down pause for a bit,
| rather than having a stop button in the UI. Aside from that
| I can't think of anything wrong with it, it plays .opus
| (and a slew of other formats), it has an equalizer with a
| bunch of presets, it doesn't drain too much battery, it
| doesn't crash, it doesn't show a bunch of ads,... in short,
| it's a great media player.
| frankosaurus wrote:
| I'm in the same boat with Google Play Music and Youtube
| Music.
|
| I switched to AIMP and have been gradually moving files over.
| deckard1 wrote:
| let's say you have an organized collection of music on your
| home computer, laptop, NAS, whatever. An easy way to stream
| that is with a subsonic server. I prefer Navidrome, but there
| are lots to choose from.
|
| To get that on to your Android you can use an app called
| DSub. This app can stream, but more importantly playback from
| cache. You can flag which songs or albums you want to cache
| on your Android. You can permanently cache as well.
|
| That works well. But if you want to step it up a notch, you
| can point Poweramp to the cache folder that DSub uses and use
| Poweramp for playback.
|
| The benefit of this setup is getting music on to your device
| is trivial once you have these apps configured. No more
| shuffling files around. Just open DSub, select which new
| albums you want, and they will appear on your device.
| mattwad wrote:
| Plexamp is really nice, I just tried their OSX app today too.
| it does require hosting your mp3's on a Plex server though.
| xeromal wrote:
| I could probably use something like this hiking so I can power
| off my phone for emergencies hunting/camping.
| Ballas wrote:
| Putting your phone in airplane mode and carrying a power bank
| for emergencies seems like a much more efficient solution to
| me?
| albert_e wrote:
| I can get behind the idea of less fiddling with an
| expensive flagship phone, avoiding risk of dropping and
| cracking it, reducing wear and tear on its battery, and
| avoiding distraction if all you want is music or audiobooks
|
| Dedicated hardware buttons for music functions would also
| be a plus
| albert_e wrote:
| If a device separate from phone is desired ...an older
| android phone that is loaded only with music player app and
| good SD card and 3.5mm audio jack might suffice?
|
| It may actually make sense for custom ROMs that are optimized
| for dedicated use cases like these to make great purpose-
| driven gadgets out of old all-purpose smartphones
| Tams80 wrote:
| These DAPs aren't about 'sufficing' though.
|
| That old smartphone is not going to have as good of a DAC
| and certainly no physical media buttons.
| bmitc wrote:
| Nobody ever seemed to buy LG phones, so I guess part of the
| answer is there.
|
| RIP LG smartphones :(
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Phyiscal buttons (god I hate the current stock android widget
| with everything tiny tiny outside of Play/Pause)
|
| Won't break your USB port if you drop it the wrong angle.
|
| Sony can be trusted thr sound will be good.
|
| Separate battery from your phone that probably lasts way
| longer, like days or weeks.
|
| No notifications coming in (feature or not? yours to choose)
|
| People buying this will also buy a SD Card, and I assume they
| are the same who still bougth the iPod Classic.
| bebna wrote:
| Check out neutron?
| makeitdouble wrote:
| I suppose you're referring to the Neutron Music Player app?
|
| I never heard of it and though it was a hardware player
| competing with the Walkman, but it's another android music
| player from the look of it. I still checked the app page in
| case they went for completely different playing controls to
| compensate for the physical buttons and playing widget, but
| it seems it mainly focuses on EQ tweaking and "high
| fidelity" playback.
|
| I'm all for alternative players on the market, so more
| power to them. But I'm probably not their target audience.
| _trampeltier wrote:
| 32gb is not a lot, but at least it's possible to insert an
| microSD card.
|
| A such player is lighter than a phone and has a buttons for
| everything. Phones just have buttons for volume.
|
| Also if you travel a lot, you can listen to music and don't
| have to worry about the phone battery and like a junky search
| for wall plugs all the time.
| matt-attack wrote:
| I'm pretty sure the last iPod I bought in 2006 has 160GB.
| CaptainZapp wrote:
| Sure (I actually still use the same model).
|
| But it doesn't come with a memory extension slot. Which,
| granted, is also not really necessary.
| ErneX wrote:
| Some people prefer a dedicated device for music.
| mongol wrote:
| It is going to be interesting to see if someone figures out other
| uses for it. Such as voice recording? I would like a recorder
| with tactile buttons. This could be it, except it looks like it
| is lacking a microphone?
| dewey wrote:
| > I would like a recorder with tactile buttons.
|
| Sony has a lot of dedicated voice recorders with tactile
| buttons already. What are you missing from these?
| mongol wrote:
| Android and programability. GPS. I want to geotag my voice
| notes.
| alkonaut wrote:
| I'd pay for a thing that does streaming, is much smaller than my
| phone, and has good physical buttons. I don't want to run or sit
| in the gym with my huge iphone. But I also don't want to collect
| files, it has to support all the streaming services and I need to
| be confident it supports the ones tomorrow as well.
| nextlevelwizard wrote:
| Have you thought about Apple Watch? Sure it lacks the physical
| buttons, but from my experience it is quite responsive with
| sweaty fingers.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| Edit: I stand corrected, see comment below.
|
| ---
|
| I don't believe you can download & save Spotify tracks on the
| watch itself - it still only operates as a companion app to
| the main iPhone one. So your only option is Apple Music which
| is a pile of shit.
| elAhmo wrote:
| It is somewhat of a recent addition, but you can now do
| that as well: download music and play it from Spotify
| without having your phone. I think they added it earlier
| last year, I was using it during summer.
| derwiki wrote:
| What's the beef with Apple Music? Besides Discovery Weekly
| on Spotify, they seem about the same to me
| capableweb wrote:
| Basically, unless you're all in on the Apple ecosystem,
| most products from Apple suck, compared to the
| alternatives. Businesses that are active in multiple
| markets tend to have worse products for each, compared to
| businesses that focuses on one market.
|
| More concretely, Spotify for me has been a lot better
| than Apple Music for discovering new music, either via
| just browsing related artists, public playlists that
| include what I'm listening to or by following specific
| people I know have a similar taste to me.
|
| I also like that Spotify includes a EQ that I've found
| helpful at times, when I cannot control the output
| device.
|
| Lastly, I frequently change between OSes and devices
| (iPhone, Android and other hardware) and doing so with
| Spotify is really easy, it's just the same everyone.
| Unsurprisingly, it's not as easy with Apple Music. But
| that use case is probably very low on the priority for
| Apple, as mentioned before, they prefer to focus on
| people within their own ecosystem, which makes perfect
| sense.
| izacus wrote:
| So... What's wrong with these Sony's? They're exactly what
| you're looking for.
| alkonaut wrote:
| It does seem like the perfect device physically, but the
| article talks a lot about storage space, CPU speed and screen
| resolutions doesn't include the word "streaming" and only
| mentions one streaming service in passing in the last
| paragraph, unrelated to actual features.
|
| Am I supposed to understand that since it's 2023 a music
| player does indeed mean "something used to listen to
| streaming services, not files", and that the fact that it's
| Android means that the regular streaming apps can be used
| without issue?
|
| It's not obvious to me (And I'm a geek and regular Ars
| reader) that this thing even plays streaming music!
| gsora wrote:
| I'm 99% sure you can stream Spotify and similar on it. The
| last generation of Android-based Walkman can do that just
| fine.
|
| I think they mention streaming briefly because the target
| demographic for this device is the kind of people who have
| their own hi-res files available.
|
| I hope Sony fixed the battery life on those, because the
| last gen was underwhelming on that front.
| rospaya wrote:
| If it only has wifi then you can only stream what you
| saved beforehand in areas where there's no wifi access.
|
| But if it has a SIM slot with 4G/5G access then it's
| nothing more than a repackaged phone.
| izacus wrote:
| So click the "Download" button in Tidal/Spotify/Apple
| Music?
|
| I mean, if you need cellular, then you're better served
| with your phone and this isn't for you. It also doesn't
| have to be for you - use your phone and move on.
| gsora wrote:
| It doesn't have cellular network AFAIK.
|
| But again, the target users don't bother with streaming
| much, the device just so happens to run android, and that
| makes running streaming apps possible.
| sangnoir wrote:
| Is there a streaming service in existence that doesn't
| offer offline playback? It's probably requires a
| subscription, but a streaming service that can't be used
| in deadspots or tunnels is kinda useless, don't you
| think?
| SSLy wrote:
| > _Is there a streaming service in existence that doesn
| 't offer offline playback?_
|
| Youtube Music :^]
| sangnoir wrote:
| The YouTube music app has offline playback, if you have a
| subscription. It can proactively download recommended
| tracks to a local cache only when connected to WiFi
| rospaya wrote:
| For me the streaming part is important - I usually don't
| choose what to listen to before leaving home.
|
| > a streaming service that can't be used in deadspots or
| tunnels is kinda useless, don't you think?
|
| I think all of them have buffering to pass any dead spot.
| Also bad reception is a thing of the past where I live
| and and 30 GB of data makes it all very seamless.
| sangnoir wrote:
| I explicitly mentioned _downloads_ - I didn 't mean
| buffering.
|
| > For me the streaming part is important - I usually
| don't choose what to listen to before leaving home.
|
| Pre-downloaded mixes are a compromise of discovery and
| offline playback
| SECProto wrote:
| > But if it has a SIM slot with 4G/5G access then it's
| nothing more than a repackaged phone.
|
| A repackaged phone with a quality headphone jack and
| physical buttons? I'd love to buy that (but unfortunately
| it doesn't seem to have a SIM slot)
| plq wrote:
| It's an Android device. It has wifi. I really don't see how
| Sony could _prevent_ its owner from using Spotify (or any
| other Android app for that matter) on it.
| Tams80 wrote:
| Mate, it runs Android. Of course you can stream music as
| you can just download the apps to do so. That's the whole
| point of it running Android and not some other OS (because
| Android is a bloated hog, but it has apps).
|
| I find it bizarre that you are into technology yet can't
| infer that.
| pedrogpimenta wrote:
| That's why it has Android! For that exact reason, so that
| you can stream from any service! And you can also have
| files, yes!
| roland35 wrote:
| Not available for sale in the US :(
| antihero wrote:
| Have you considered using a smart watch?
| tobyhinloopen wrote:
| Apple watch cellular
| joegahona wrote:
| This only partially ticks the box of "physical buttons," but
| this is what I use and don't regret it. Apple Watch cellular
| paired with Bluetooth earbuds (I prefer Powerbeats Pro when
| running) is a delightful and magical experience that I highly
| recommend.
| m000 wrote:
| If you are on Spotify or Amazon music, then there's Mighty [1]:
| iPod shuffle form factor, syncs with the aforementioned
| services, supports bluetooth and wired headphones.
|
| If you insist on the "all the streaming services" part though,
| you probably won't find anything at all, because... Apple.
|
| [1] https://www.bemighty.com
| smith7018 wrote:
| The device would just need to run Android to support all
| streaming services because Apple Music has an Android app.
| capableweb wrote:
| That thing looks really nice, and not too expensive either.
| Too bad it's only IPX4 rated, would have bought it instantly
| if it was better in that regard.
| gwill wrote:
| they have a waterproof version:
| https://bemighty.com/products/waterproof-mighty-vibe
| capableweb wrote:
| Strange, that website redirects me to
| https://mightyaudio.eu/ which only the following
| products: "Mighty Vibe", "Carrying Case" and "Charging
| Cable".
|
| Maybe it's not certified for the EU yet?
| drapado wrote:
| Maybe a smartwatch? The main reason for me to buy one was
| having music using spotify and blueetoth earphones while
| training.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Samsung's Galaxy Watch can do that, if you're fine with Spotify
| and Youtube Music.
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